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2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

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2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:13 pm

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2014.shtml


That's right....the big Borowski is on the ballot!!
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby El Em » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:41 pm

Ok, I will leap into the fray...
My Ballot:
Maddux
Biggio
Big Hurt
Mussina
Glavine
Kent
Raines
Piazza
Bonds
Clemens

...worlds of respect for jack Morris and Tram, but not HoF'ers.
The PED tainted guys are exactly that in my mind -- tainted. That said, Bonds and Clemens were simply great players ...even if I truly dislike both, and they have soiled their own legacies, they belong in the Hall. Though plausible arguements can made, I do not feel the same about many of the others, bloated numbers and all.

L
Last edited by El Em on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby BrianM » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:22 pm

El Em wrote:Ok, I will leap into the fray...
My Ballot:
Maddux
Biggio
Big Hurt
Mussina
Glavine
Kent
Schilling
Raines
Piazza
Bonds
Clemens

...worlds of respect for jack Morris and Tram, but not HoF'ers.
The PED tainted guys are exactly that in my mind -- tainted. That said, Bonds and Clemens were simply great players ...even if I truly dislike both, and they have soiled their own legacies, they belong in the Hall. Though plausible arguements can made, I do not feel the same about many of the others, bloated numbers and all.

L


Completely agree. With Bonds, you know the exact year he started using because his Body had changed so much. Prior to that, he was probably already a hall of famer in a lot of peoples minds. He deserves to be in. Clemens should probably be in too, I just don't like the guy.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:22 pm

Biggio
Mattingly
Walker
Maddux
Thomas
Glavine

EDIT: And maybe Kent
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:19 pm

If I get 10 votes (in no particular order):

1. Greg Maddox
2. Tom Glavine
3. Craig Biggio
4. Edgar Martinez
5. Frank Thomas
6. Tim Raines
7. Barry Bonds
8. Mike Piazza
9. Roger Clemens
10. Rafael Palmeiro


If I get an 11th vote....Joe Borowski (kidding) :cool
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby daingean » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:41 pm

Elected by the Expansion Era committee:

Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Tony LaRusso
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm

daingean wrote:Elected by the Expansion Era committee:

Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Tony LaRusso


All deserving.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:17 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
daingean wrote:Elected by the Expansion Era committee:

Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Tony LaRusso


All deserving.


LaRussa I agree with but I'm not a fan of Torre getting in. Even Cox I think is a stretch.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby El Em » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:29 am

Do you give Torre any credit for being a fine player (obviously not HOF quality), in addition to his work as a Manager and now in MLB administration? I do...though he probably did enough for most as a Manager anyway.

Bobby Cox is not a favorite of mine, but he would be hard for me to argue against.

I think LaRussa is somewhat universally accepted.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:58 am

El Em wrote:Do you give Torre any credit for being a fine player (obviously not HOF quality), in addition to his work as a Manager and now in MLB administration? I do...though he probably did enough for most as a Manager anyway.

Bobby Cox is not a favorite of mine, but he would be hard for me to argue against.

I think LaRussa is somewhat universally accepted.


What has he done in this role that is a positive?!?


I don't give him credit for his playing days. Dont' think that had anything to do with his admission. My guess it was his WS wins in NY and that alone.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:39 am

Hermie13 wrote:
El Em wrote:Do you give Torre any credit for being a fine player (obviously not HOF quality), in addition to his work as a Manager and now in MLB administration? I do...though he probably did enough for most as a Manager anyway.

Bobby Cox is not a favorite of mine, but he would be hard for me to argue against.

I think LaRussa is somewhat universally accepted.


What has he done in this role that is a positive?!?


I don't give him credit for his playing days. Dont' think that had anything to do with his admission. My guess it was his WS wins in NY and that alone.


What Joe Torre accomplished as a manager was greatness.. Winning the World Series four times.. being the fifth all time winningest manager in ML history.. is a reflection of that greatness and cause celebre' for Mr Torre's enshrinement...

He is well deserving of the honor..
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby daingean » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:54 am

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
daingean wrote:Elected by the Expansion Era committee:

Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Tony LaRusso


All deserving.


LaRussa I agree with but I'm not a fan of Torre getting in. Even Cox I think is a stretch.


Living in Atlanta, I have a different opinion on Cox. People really credit Schuerholz with the Braves turn around but it was Cox as GM that drafted Glavine, Avery, Justice, and Chipper (to name a few) and stole Smoltz from the Tigers. He wasn't a great tactician but he kept his teams ready to play.

Torre really benefited from Steinbrenner's spending.....he wasn't great as a manager with the Mets, Atlanta (one playoff and his teams always had losing records late in the season) and St. Louis. But by definition he deserves it.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby El Em » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:28 am

Hermie13 wrote:
El Em wrote:Do you give Torre any credit for being a fine player (obviously not HOF quality), in addition to his work as a Manager and now in MLB administration? I do...though he probably did enough for most as a Manager anyway.

Bobby Cox is not a favorite of mine, but he would be hard for me to argue against.

I think LaRussa is somewhat universally accepted.


What has he done in this role that is a positive?!?


I don't give him credit for his playing days. Dont' think that had anything to do with his admission. My guess it was his WS wins in NY and that alone.


Torre has been a good player, and after managing continues to be a well thought of presence/contributor to the game...but these are mete enhancements to an excellent carreer asva Manager. His Yankee championships and total wins are probably enough, but his entire life in baseball cements him as a HoF figure. He really does not need my defending, jusy offering my point of view.

Excellent points above about Cox the GM...really helped build the franchise.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:07 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
daingean wrote:Elected by the Expansion Era committee:

Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Tony LaRusso


All deserving.


LaRussa I agree with but I'm not a fan of Torre getting in. Even Cox I think is a stretch.


Living in Atlanta, I have a different opinion on Cox. People really credit Schuerholz with the Braves turn around but it was Cox as GM that drafted Glavine, Avery, Justice, and Chipper (to name a few) and stole Smoltz from the Tigers. He wasn't a great tactician but he kept his teams ready to play.

Torre really benefited from Steinbrenner's spending.....he wasn't great as a manager with the Mets, Atlanta (one playoff and his teams always had losing records late in the season) and St. Louis. But by definition he deserves it.


True on Cox...I always forget that he was the GM in Atlanta too for years and not just the manager.
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:11 pm

Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas get in (Maddux not unanimous sadly). Biggio misses by 2 votes (smallest margin ever) with 74.8% of the votes.

A little surprised Biggio didn't get in. Gotta hurt missing by that little of a vote. Would be shocked if he doesn't get in next year even with a few great candidates being added.



IMO one very overlooked part of this year.....we just saw our first "DH" elected to the Hall of Fame. Frank Thomas actually started over 300 more games as a DH than he did as a 1B in his career...over 1300 games as a DH.

Can we finally remove the DH stigma from Edgar Martinez and vote him in?!?! please?
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:40 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas get in (Maddux not unanimous sadly). Biggio misses by 2 votes (smallest margin ever) with 74.8% of the votes.

A little surprised Biggio didn't get in. Gotta hurt missing by that little of a vote. Would be shocked if he doesn't get in next year even with a few great candidates being added.



IMO one very overlooked part of this year.....we just saw our first "DH" elected to the Hall of Fame. Frank Thomas actually started over 300 more games as a DH than he did as a 1B in his career...over 1300 games as a DH.

Can we finally remove the DH stigma from Edgar Martinez and vote him in?!?! please?


Biggio will get in next year without a doubt. Disagree on Martinez though.

Next year you have first timers... Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, John Smoltz... Also PED possible Gary Sheffield. And lesser names of Nomar, Carlos Delgado, and Brian Giles..
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:04 am

A.Zajac wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas get in (Maddux not unanimous sadly). Biggio misses by 2 votes (smallest margin ever) with 74.8% of the votes.

A little surprised Biggio didn't get in. Gotta hurt missing by that little of a vote. Would be shocked if he doesn't get in next year even with a few great candidates being added.



IMO one very overlooked part of this year.....we just saw our first "DH" elected to the Hall of Fame. Frank Thomas actually started over 300 more games as a DH than he did as a 1B in his career...over 1300 games as a DH.

Can we finally remove the DH stigma from Edgar Martinez and vote him in?!?! please?


Biggio will get in next year without a doubt. Disagree on Martinez though.

Next year you have first timers... Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, John Smoltz... Also PED possible Gary Sheffield. And lesser names of Nomar, Carlos Delgado, and Brian Giles..


You disagree that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer?!?
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby daingean » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:01 am

Hermie13 wrote:
You disagree that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer?!?


I don't have a HOF vote but for DH's, I would only vote guys that have lights out numbers. Edgar's numbers are very good (All Star caliber) but IMO not good enough for a DH. In fact, Thomas might be the only guy that was a primary DH that has HOF numbers. But then again, I'm not a fan of the DH (but the DH is used from youth all the way through the pros....so it is here to stay and it's only a matter of time till the NL adopts the DH).
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Re: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballot

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:15 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
You disagree that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer?!?


I don't have a HOF vote but for DH's, I would only vote guys that have lights out numbers. Edgar's numbers are very good (All Star caliber) but IMO not good enough for a DH. In fact, Thomas might be the only guy that was a primary DH that has HOF numbers. But then again, I'm not a fan of the DH (but the DH is used from youth all the way through the pros....so it is here to stay and it's only a matter of time till the NL adopts the DH).


I guess it depends what you qualify as lights out numbers.

Edgar Martinez's career batting line was .312/.418/.515. In fact, he is one of only 20 players in baseball history ) to finish a career (minimum 5,000 PAs) to slash at least .300/.400/.500 (Pujols qualifies as of now to make 21 but remains to be seen if he'll finish there). Consider there are 25 members of the 500 HR club and 28 members of the 3000 hit club, and you see how exclusive of a group that is. Only members of that group that are not in the hall of fame (but are eligible for selection) are: Edgar Martinez and Larry Walker. That's it.

Edgar's numbers actually aren't that far off of Frank Thomas. I mean, Thomas was definitely better but enough to make Thomas a no doubt hall of famer/1st ballot guy and say Edgar has no place? IMO no. Frank Thomas's rWAR was 73.6; Edgar's was 68.3 (slightly higher than Eddie Murray). fWAR doesn't like him quite as much but still more than Biggio, Robbie Alomar, and Tony Gywnn. His OPS+, wRC+, etc rank top 50 (OPS+ is the same as Mike Schmidt and Jim Thome). His OBP is good for 17th best all-time (min 5000 PAs). Great case can be made that Martinez was one of the 35-40 greatest hitters of all time.

Edgar was one of the greatest hitters of the 90s/early 2000s. Absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame IMO.
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