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MLB Hot Stove

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:06 pm

028.. the term "targeting" is an all encompassing indication of interest in acquisition via trade or FA's. So, "..only Kyle Lohse.." would exclude out the Ubaldo for Kershaw, straight up deal !!.. (yeah..it's a joke).. As far as the FA SP's on the market..none of the older guys seem to have much left in the tank or are worthy of a roster spot. The Millwoods and DiceK's and even Pavano's are stop gap older SP's that would give the Indians that Derek Lowe-Deja Vu feeling.. PASS..

Homer.. the percentage / potential for movement numbers are baffling.. There really isn't a good way to predict, so your numbers are as good as any, I suppose.. It comes down to who must act on the urgency to fill a spot. The Mariners ? the Cardinals?.. the Red Sox? certainly the Dodgers.. The Indians find themselves right square in the middle of a poker game called "Urgency in MLB's Hot Stove Season" and they're holding a pair of sixes (Droobs and CPerez) and want the dealer to send them a pair of Matts...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:51 pm

G' son,
The point was I think it may be more likely that Chris Perez is moved. I almost expect they move Perez before the end of January. I would almost dare say Perez will be traded, I'm not that stupid though bc I get the fact they could surprise us and decide to trade someone like Pestano to the A's for Dan Straily or AJ Griffin. That being said at this point the FO could be on the line talking trade for ACab right now that would net a solid arm like Lance Lynn as we discussed a number of times. Maybe "the talks" (rumors / speculation) with the Dodgers actually bring forth something like Perez for Ryu. I know that's probably not happening, but it seems they are targeting a SP or two who would be credible additions to the rotation.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:01 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:G' son,
The point was I think it may be more likely that Chris Perez is moved. I almost expect they move Perez before the end of January. I would almost dare say Perez will be traded, I'm not that stupid though bc I get the fact they could surprise us and decide to trade someone like Pestano to the A's for Dan Straily or AJ Griffin. That being said at this point the FO could be on the line talking trade for ACab right now that would net a solid arm like Lance Lynn as we discussed a number of times. Maybe "the talks" (rumors / speculation) with the Dodgers actually bring forth something like Perez for Ryu. I know that's probably not happening, but it seems they are targeting a SP or two who would be credible additions to the rotation.
-Yeah yeah yeah.. I understand you w/r to the likelihood of move..not the actual move..

-Pestano to the A's for Straily or Griffing I would do in a heartbeat.. no question about it.. Straily is going to be something really special.. There was also talk about Brett Anderson being part of discussions at one point in one of these crazy rumor threads as well..

-The Ryu suggestion would be really odd.. really odd.. but more than welcome.. I could see, after this season, Shin-soo Choo joining his countryman in LA for Kimchee and baseball..

-Targeting young controllable SP's could be the Indians next move.. I certainly hope in involves Jack Zduriencik..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:22 pm

With Shaw under team control for 4 years, could he be stretched out and given an opportunity to start, or does he not have enough pitches? It would be a good way to add value to the trade and add a power arm to the rotation. The bullpen is deep enough to give it a try IMHO.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:36 pm

On to the Mariners it seems, but here's a few thoughts w/r to the Dodgers and Cards who I think they may have some serious negotiations with - mere speculation on my part.

My personal preference would be to see the Tribe move both Perez and ACab this offseason. I'd like to see the Tribe snag Dee Gordon, Alex Santana and Zach Lee OR something like Gordon, Pederson and Magill OR Gordon, Reed and Magill from the Dodgers for Chris Perez. All of this said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tribe acq. another young high upside RP when they trade Perez, since they like to provide themselves a number of options. Dee Gordon, the son of former big leaguer Tom Gordon is a 4 tool guy and former highly rated prospect. Gordon has no power to speak of, but has tremendous speed and could easily be a 60-70 SB guy even if he hit .230 over the course of a season. Santana is a very young 3b and needs a lot of time to develop. Pederson is still a cpl yrs away but looks like a corner OF, maybe a 20/20 but that might be pushing expectations. Matt Magill throws low 90's but has a nice slider and change. Magill projects as potentially a 3-5 starter, IMO. Then there's Chris Reed the former Stanford Cardinal closer throws 96 from the left side and is being developed as a SP. Reed has an excellent FB and plus slider and potentially a plus chg. Reed is a guy I think could develop into a solid 3, but there are some control concerns that hinder him a bit.

I'd also like to see the Tribe flip ACab to the Cards for Lance Lynn, John Gast and Matt Adams OR Lance Lynn and Oscar Tavares OR Joe Kelly, Matt Adams and Oscar Tavares. Lance Lynn won 18 games last yr was an AllStar and may never repeat those feats again, the Cards have some concerns with Lynn bc of his conditioning. Lynn is a big framed guy and really seemed to blossom last yr, Ideally he's probably a very good 3, I think he projects anywhere from 2-4. Joe Kelly another arm that has to be considered projects somewhere between a good 3-5, he could use some work on secondary stuff but is big league ready. Matt Adams has huge power, I could see him as average 1b / DH type actually I think he's more prone to post numbers something like (at best) .240avg 25hrs 25dbls but it's his power that intrigues me. Oscar Tavares is a huge upside OF with power and some speed, he should get a crack at the bigs later this coming season he's a guy I could see as an AS OF at any OF position, but would be best suited for RF, IMO. John Gast is serviceable LHSP who will be big league ready soon. Trevor Rosenthal is another power arm that might get some inquiries from the Tribe. Tyler Jenkins is another high upside arm, he had shldr soreness last season and missed some time, but would be an interesting 3rd piece IF they were to match up for a deal. Personally, I prefer Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly, Oscar Tavares and Matt Adams in that order, with hopes of getting 3 of 4. Rosenthal, Carlos Martinez and Shelby Miller are others but I'm not sure the Cards would be willing to make a move.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:39 pm

Chip Davis wrote:With Shaw under team control for 4 years, could he be stretched out and given an opportunity to start, or does he not have enough pitches? It would be a good way to add value to the trade and add a power arm to the rotation. The bullpen is deep enough to give it a try IMHO.
He's essentially a two pitch pitcher. A fastball ball with good arm side run into right handed hitters (and away from lefties) and a wipe out cut fastball. When he's in the strike zone with his cutter, he's almost unhittable..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:04 pm

@ Chip Davis
I don't think Shaw has ever been a SP. I don't know for sure but I think he was a RP in college too. That said he went through the minors in less than 2 yrs and pitched his first full season at age 24 with the Dbax. There is some speculation Shaw may be a closer in the making. FWIW, CA said that when he was drafted by the Dbax in the 2nd Rd the Tribe was also high on him. His high draft status shows he was a highly regarded.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:08 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Chip Davis wrote:With Shaw under team control for 4 years, could he be stretched out and given an opportunity to start, or does he not have enough pitches? It would be a good way to add value to the trade and add a power arm to the rotation. The bullpen is deep enough to give it a try IMHO.
He's essentially a two pitch pitcher. A fastball ball with good arm side run into right handed hitters (and away from lefties) and a wipe out cut fastball. When he's in the strike zone with his cutter, he's almost unhittable..


Basically this. He has had some awful splits vs left handers, especially last year. He has velocity but not much else to pair with his cutter. He can still carve himself out a really good career out of the pen. He'll be good insurance if Joe Smith is moved eventually or gets hurt. I know Smitty has improved a bit vs lefties but his true value is getting right handers to look silly beating the baseball into the ground.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Here's an article re: sign and trade deals...

http://rayscoloredglasses.com/2012/12/2 ... time-high/
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:32 pm

-I'm all for trading Pestano. This is one player who we over value, but the league will over value as well. If someone wants to pay top dollar, we do it.

-Kyle Lohse would be quite the addition. He would certainly make us a much more realistic contender, and even if we are not contending, he becomes a valuable trade piece if hes pitching well.

-I'm not confident in ACab. Id prefer he dropped 30 pounds and became the guy he was back in 09 when he hit for average but no power and played a terrific short. If we can get the kind of rumored value we have been offered for him, we need to pull that trigger. I honestly think his decline will start this year.

-I was the first person to say we have no chance at Oscar Tavarez, but to some extent I would prefer a straight up ACab for Tavarez trade more than a Lynn/Adams/Carpenter trade.

-Being an Indians fan is fun.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:21 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's an article re: sign and trade deals...

http://rayscoloredglasses.com/2012/12/2 ... time-high/


Interesting read. Would have to see it to believe it though. Not just with the Indians but with anyone. Suppose it could happen though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:28 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Chip Davis wrote:With Shaw under team control for 4 years, could he be stretched out and given an opportunity to start, or does he not have enough pitches? It would be a good way to add value to the trade and add a power arm to the rotation. The bullpen is deep enough to give it a try IMHO.
He's essentially a two pitch pitcher. A fastball ball with good arm side run into right handed hitters (and away from lefties) and a wipe out cut fastball. When he's in the strike zone with his cutter, he's almost unhittable..


Basically this. He has had some awful splits vs left handers, especially last year. He has velocity but not much else to pair with his cutter. He can still carve himself out a really good career out of the pen. He'll be good insurance if Joe Smith is moved eventually or gets hurt. I know Smitty has improved a bit vs lefties but his true value is getting right handers to look silly beating the baseball into the ground.



Yeah...plus he was a closer/reliever throughout his college career.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:01 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's an article re: sign and trade deals...

http://rayscoloredglasses.com/2012/12/2 ... time-high/


Interesting read. Would have to see it to believe it though. Not just with the Indians but with anyone. Suppose it could happen though.


If there's an opportunity the Tribe should take it. First of all, they would save the signing bonus and they would get a player better than what they would get as a 3rd rounder. Don't do it if the player is a roster filler but a decent prospect or to sweeten a pot on an existing deal.

I think MLB will close this loop-hole soon though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:17 pm

Thanks for the info guys. I wasn't aware he had been a reliever his entire career. Is there anyone else that could make the transition and contribute successfully? There is depth in the pen and most of them are power arms.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Chip Davis wrote:Thanks for the info guys. I wasn't aware he had been a reliever his entire career. Is there anyone else that could make the transition and contribute successfully? There is depth in the pen and most of them are power arms.


Scott Barnes. Everyone here was very high on him as a Starter prior to his knee injury. If we had another lh reliever he would certainly be an option with upside, but according to everything I have been reading, we should expect him to be in the bullpen.

Good question though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:45 pm

Trey Haley would be one option. Haley was drafted as a SP, but moved to the pen bc of control issues and some nagging injuries. Scott Barnes is another, he could be stretched back out as a starter but would likely be facing an innings limit and with the lack of a experienced lefty already, I just don't see Barnes getting stretched back out as a starter this coming season unless they add a cpl options in the bullpen.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:58 pm

Regarding the whole sign-and-trade thing....... unless it changed it the most recent CBA, I thought recently signed Free Agents would have to clear waivers to be traded before July 31st - not just receive authorisation from the FA themselves.

Maybe I'm making that up but, I'm sure that's the way it used to be.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:04 pm

From my understanding a FA could be signed and traded prior to June 15th only with the players written authorization.

Sign and trades are quite possible but it seems teams aren't willing to push the envelop. Scott Boras is however...

MLB would consider it collusion IF a team signed a player and then traded him. However, a player could agree to a deal with say the Mariners and sign a deal with the Indians for example with the expectation they would be traded to the Mariners. In this case the Indians would gain whatever was agreed upon in the deal, while paying the draft pk penalty. It is a loophole that MLB will seek to close, but right now it's wide open and I think it should be an option...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:44 pm

Such a quiet day today...

The Brewers did a good job by acquiring a very good LHRP in Mike Gonzalez. The Brewers have some pretty decent prospects that could interest the Indians.. Their SP staff has been decimated, so, a BOR type SP and or a RHRP traded to the Brew Crew might bring back a deep prospect.. Ariel Pena and Victor Roache come to mind..

Any thoughts on these two guys?..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:31 am

GSon,
I believe you mentioned in another forum the Cards where rumored to be close to something on the SS front, although you noted it may only be chatter. The Cards and Tribe could be talking again, for all we know they have but pushed things to the back burner as the Tribe sought to work things on a different front. On this note the St. Louis Post Dispatch had another article up on their second base prospects...Matt Carpenter in particular, they couldn't help themselves - yet another article that discussed ACab - involving the Tribes AS SS.

Here's that link...
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 84e49.html

I'm curious if its the Christmas / New Yrs holidays holding the mkt back a bit. OR could it be the potential blockbuster move...Justin Upton and Tyler Skaggs to the Indians for Justin Masterson, ACab and CPerez...okay, so I'm just kidding a bit here, but I expect it could be the Dbax and a potential move of Justin Upton that could slow down signings of Kyle Lohse and Michael Bourn and other potential moves that affect numerous potential clubs and suitors of some of the Tribes trade chips.

Not that the Tribe is in on one or both - but they could still be. Actually, I'm thinking more like it could get a few teams to start making moves. The Mariners are another team of interest as they pursue offensive upgrades, ACab fits the bill and they have pitching to deal, they could be in the Upton sweepstakes and there's a lot of outside pressure on Jack Z to do something, which could be irrelevant. The point is, nothing's off the table the Tribe might have a few deals on the table right now but potential Upton and Kubel deals might very well be slowing the mkt.

Nick Camino seems to suggest that the Tribe has been in some sort of discussions either with or for some SP. I think I could reasonably say that without guessing or talking off the cuff, I'm not suggesting he was...Rather I'm curious who the Tribe is targeting, but the Tribe is rumored to want to add a vet. Which would seem like a common sense move so what do we learn from such comments then? Absolutely nothing, there's been little chatter which leaves us fans dreaming of what could be and so here where are waiting the next move by the Tribe with expectations that CA and company will once again act creatively and aggressively.

I found another old article from a Cards blog which discussed some of the old ACab rumors. I've hit on this idea numerous times, frankly running it in the ground perhaps but neither the Tribe or Cards have finished their offseason upgrades. Although St. Louis is in good shape if the season starts today.

Here's a link for those who may be interested...
http://redbirdrants.com/2012/11/29/coul ... ome-moves/
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby ironmike » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:35 am

In response to trade rumors with the Cardinals. Like the idea of Matt Carpenter coming to the Indians. In his 2011 season at Memphis he walked 84 times while striking out 68 times. Hit for average, demonstrated decent power. Exceptional. Whenever a team can acquire a player like this you do it. Once Carpenter settles in and get 700 AB's in the majors he will be a steady force.

Carpenter is an infielder. Cards are looking at him to be an internal option at second base. He has played 3b before. One of the things Carpenter is doing this off-season is jumping rope. Davey Nelson, the Indians 1B coach in the 90's and a prolific base stealer in his day said, the only way for a player to increase their speed was via jumping rope. Hey, another old school technique that really works that got swept under the rug when the geek squad spreadsheet boys took over.

Of course Peters / Hart valued speed, the guys we got now don't. Both Brantley and Kipnis should be attempting to drag bunt for base hits far more often. Hell, it was a great tool for Kenny, Omar and Robbie. It remains one of the best tools ever to ignite and offense and put extreme pressure on the defense. Baseball doesn't change only the guys running the team do and when they don't value intangibles, things go south in a hurry.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:15 am

Homer.. w/r to the rumored interest in a vet pitcher.. it very likely could Jake Westbrook or Jaime Garcia.. Westbrook is on a one year plus club option contract for around $ 9 MM/year while Garcia is under contract for around five years at around the same value, however, the final two years team options.. Westbrook is currently slotted as the Cardinals # 3, although, in reality, he's more of a BOR # 4/#5 type now. Garcia, coming off being shut down with a sore shoulder that did not require surgery. The issue with the should, a rotator cuff, makes any deal for him a much higher risk.. The return to play of Jaime Garcia (assuming good health), the emergence of both Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal along with Lance Lynn puts the Cardinals in the envious position of having at least seven or eight ML starting pitchers on their 25 man roster.

Former Cardinal and now free agent Kyle Lohse is currently unemployed, 34 years old and represented by Scott Boras. The Cardinals have interest in bringing him back but only for a 'reasonable' contract that doesn't break the bank for length or dollars. This would further add to the glut of starting pitching. Kyle Lohse LOVED playing in St Louis. There would be no surprise to see him return on terms much more agreeable to the red birds..to the point where casual fans would look at the signing and say.. "..why didn't we sign him for that much???!!..."

As far as Matt Carpenter goes, with St Louis, he'll be their utility guy as he's not the Cardinals choice for 2B.. that's Kolten Wong who was drafted in 2011. Wong went right to work showing he is a doubles hitting machine that gets on base. TBH.. it would not be a surprise to see him starting with the red birds waaaaaaaaaay sooner than even the Cardinals project..That kid is a dynamic hitter!!
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:33 pm

My first thoughts on the "surprise" pitchers Camino referred to was Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, Ricky Nolasco and Derek Holland. The Tribe, Dbax and Rangers had extensive talks regarding the three team deal that landed the Tribe Bauer, Stubbs, Albers and Shaw. There could still be something there, some common interests which could spark another creative deal.

One of Jake Westbrook and Jaime Garcia would be an interesting move by the Cards and free some salary to move on Kyle Lohse. It would have to take something more than one of those two, if they were one of two SP the Tribe were to acq. in a deal for ACab. Lets say something like Westbrook and Kelly for ACab OR Garcia and Lynn, these kind of deals would only be with the assumption the Cards already had another SP piece lined up and signed, which Lohse would seemingly be their top target. The Cards have tremendous org. depth in a number of areas, this has allowed them the ability to sit fairly idle while adding only Choate and Wigginton this offseason.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby timdav » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:55 pm

While we all wait for the other shoe (major trade) to drop....am wondering what the odds you guys think the following Indians will still be on the Indians major league roster to start the 2013 season:

A. Cabrera
C.Perez
Masterson
Jimenez

Marson
Kluber
J. Gomez
Huff
Hermann
Phelps

By the way...wish all of you guys a happy, fantastic 2013!
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:18 pm

Wondering about the availability & the Tribe's interest(or lack thereof) in Adam LaRoche. Been a big fan of his for a long time. Negotiations with the Nats seem to have hit a snag, they act like they aren't budging from a 2 yr offer & he wants 3 yrs. Haven't heard anything about $/yr. If reasonable, let's give him 3 yrs. He'd be a tremendous add.

Anyone heard what he wants. dollars-wise?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:54 pm

Rocky55,

I've heard nothing specific but I'd guess that maybe something similar to Mike Napoli's agreed deal of 3 yrs / $39 M would get LaRoche signed. Personally, if the Tribe were to invest in another FA I'd prefer Michael Bourn myself. The Tribe was rumored to have interest in Bourn a few yrs ago and again as recently as a few wks ago. I know it's highly unlikely they'd move on Bourn now but if they were to make a cpl moves landing some starting pitching and had some cash to spend I'd be all for it.

Why Bourn? Bourn would provide a defensive CF with leadoff capabilities with the potential to provide a qlty addition over the course of 4/5 yrs. Bourn would seemingly be the safer option of the two. Personally, I think Bourn is the best FA left on the mkt and would add a base stealing threat to the lineup for a number of yrs. Bourn would also provide the Tribe with a number of options in the OF and possible trade options (I'm not talking a sign and trade) going forward as well.

Bourn would only cost the Tribe a third rd draft pk and the spending pool money, IF the Tribe were to dip into FA next yr signing the same qlty of FA would possibly cost a first rd pk. Lets say for a minute the Tribe traded one of or both of CPerez and ACab they could possibly add at least one / two young controllable SP and also free a bit more money to fit Bourn on the payroll. Currently the Tribe sits around $69 M (inc. Reynolds' incentives) and the club will reportedly spend up to $75 M this season in payroll.

The Tribe could back load a deal with Bourn similar to the Swisher deal 4 yrs / $56 M with a vesting option for a 5th yr / $70 M total. They could also offer a creative deal, giving Bourn an opt out option after the first yr. Then why even sign him? Bourn would only cost a third rd pk and spending pool money, he would be a tradable commodity or provide flexibility to move Stubbs / Brantley. The opt out option would provide the Tribe the opportunity to match and receive a 1st rd comp pk if Bourn opted out.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:18 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Rocky55,

I've heard nothing specific but I'd guess that maybe something similar to Mike Napoli's agreed deal of 3 yrs / $39 M would get LaRoche signed. Personally, if the Tribe were to invest in another FA I'd prefer Michael Bourn myself. The Tribe was rumored to have interest in Bourn a few yrs ago and again as recently as a few wks ago. I know it's highly unlikely they'd move on Bourn now but if they were to make a cpl moves landing some starting pitching and had some cash to spend I'd be all for it.

Why Bourn? Bourn would provide a defensive CF with leadoff capabilities with the potential to provide a qlty addition over the course of 4/5 yrs. Bourn would seemingly be the safer option of the two. Personally, I think Bourn is the best FA left on the mkt and would add a base stealing threat to the lineup for a number of yrs. Bourn would also provide the Tribe with a number of options in the OF and possible trade options (I'm not talking a sign and trade) going forward as well.

Bourn would only cost the Tribe a third rd draft pk and the spending pool money, IF the Tribe were to dip into FA next yr signing the same qlty of FA would possibly cost a first rd pk. Lets say for a minute the Tribe traded one of or both of CPerez and ACab they could possibly add at least one / two young controllable SP and also free a bit more money to fit Bourn on the payroll. Currently the Tribe sits around $69 M (inc. Reynolds' incentives) and the club will reportedly spend up to $75 M this season in payroll.

The Tribe could back load a deal with Bourn similar to the Swisher deal 4 yrs / $56 M with a vesting option for a 5th yr / $70 M total. They could also offer a creative deal, giving Bourn an opt out option after the first yr. Then why even sign him? Bourn would only cost a third rd pk and spending pool money, he would be a tradable commodity or provide flexibility to move Stubbs / Brantley. The opt out option would provide the Tribe the opportunity to match and receive a 1st rd comp pk if Bourn opted out.

Couldn't disagree more. Going by past performance LaRoche & Bourn are the same batter as far as BA & OBP are concerned. Difference is that Bourn steals bases & LaRoche hits HRs. The .100+ point difference in OPS is all based on SP. Bourn is a great fielder but not measurably better than Stubbs, so his fielding isn't a great add to the status quo. LaRoche on the other hand is far superior to Reynolds. We also must remember that Reynolds isn't considered a long term solution at 1B. I believe that LaRoche will "age" better than Bourn. If (when) Bourn slows down he's not very valuable. LaRoche could/should age along Thome-like lines. Plus, he'll only be 35 during the 3rd yr of the contract.

Kipnis will, IMO, be as good an option to lead off as Bourn, so Bourn (IMO) supplies no advantage as a leadoff guy. LaRoche, in the middle of the lineup, surrounded by Santana, Swisher, Cabrera, Reynolds, Chiz, etc, will be a dangerous thing. Also, with LaRoche behind him & Santana in front, Swisher's going to get some pitches to hit. Plus, if we do trade Cabrera, the offense wouldn't take the big hit if LaRoche was added.

To me, LaRoche is a net add offensively & defensively. He's facing a similar situation to Swisher's in that he may be only able to get the years that he wants from the Tribe.

We need pitching first & should focus mainly on that but the best avenue may be through trades. Pitching may win in the playoffs but offense is just as valuable during the season, IMO. A good lineup can beat up on opponent's bottom of the order pitchers & win lots of games. Most of the teams in the league aren't 5 deep in the rotation with pitchers who are even just above average. With a good offense & a great pen we could improve our W/L record quite a bit.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:23 pm

timdav wrote:While we all wait for the other shoe (major trade) to drop....am wondering what the odds you guys think the following Indians will still be on the Indians major league roster to start the 2013 season:

A. Cabrera
C.Perez
Masterson
Jimenez

Marson
Kluber
J. Gomez
Huff
Hermann
Phelps

By the way...wish all of you guys a happy, fantastic 2013!


Still an Indians in 2013? Jimenez, Masterson, Cabrera and Perez will ALL begin the season with the Indians IMO. I don't see these fantasy trades playing out anymore at this point in the offseason. Feel the Indians will add through FA and the only trades we'll see are the results of 40 man roster crunching.

Esily see Marson as the backup catcher, and see Kluber likely in Cbus as a depth option. Gomez and Huff are both garbage really. Huff has more of a future as a lefty swingman type, not much else. Could see him bounce around in near future like Aaron Laffey has since the Indians moved him to Seattle.

Herrmann is close to the choping block as well pending any FA signings. Could see a team seeking depth having interest, as he is durable and cheap. Same with Phelps. Don't know where he fits in with this team anymore. Clearly he is not in the plans for the Indians other than a depth option to protect from a rash of injuries.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:58 pm

Rocky55,

I failed to mention this in the earlier post but I did refer to options in the outfield. My thought is Swisher would assume 1b possibly as soon as the next season.

LaRoche would be a qlty 1b and add power no doubt, I can't disagree at all. Bourn would be a qlty top of the lineup CF. I actually thought LaRoche was 33 already, but he just turned 32 in early November. Bourn on the other hand turned 30 Dec. 27th and frankly, I'm not sure his speed would diminish that much over his age 30-33,34 seasons. If you watched Bourn last yr or looked closely at his numbers he appears to have been pressing for offensive numbers (power), I'm guessing it was bc he was facing his walk yr looking for a big pay day. Bourn has score more than 80 runs in his last four seasons and more than 90 runs in 3 of 4. Bourn adds another element to an offense, that the Tribe lacks - that true speedster on the base paths.

My real argument for Bourn is primarily bc his potential longevity in comparison to LaRoche. Bourn is younger and could provide 4/5 yrs of good productivity. LaRoche would probably provide good production for 2/3 yrs. Defensively, LaRoche would add a solid 1b that the club lacks and would push Reynolds to primary DH. Bourn would offer options in the OF maybe trading a piece for SP...OR...potentially pushing Swisher to primary 1b and Reynolds primary DH.

Regardless of preference, either would be an upgrade for the offense and each would offer a different element to the lineup. Something I think can all see eye to eye on is; the Tribe has to focus first on upgrading the pitching staff and still has a lot of work to do there.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:16 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:
The Tribe could back load a deal with Bourn similar to the Swisher deal 4 yrs / $56 M with a vesting option for a 5th yr / $70 M total. They could also offer a creative deal, giving Bourn an opt out option after the first yr. Then why even sign him? Bourn would only cost a third rd pk and spending pool money, he would be a tradable commodity or provide flexibility to move Stubbs / Brantley. The opt out option would provide the Tribe the opportunity to match and receive a 1st rd comp pk if Bourn opted out.


I like this. This is creative. Boras will probably hold off as long as he can to land his 4-5 year deal worth around 15 mil a year, but I just don't think thats going to happen now. The player opt out clause you mentioned seems like a great idea, but is it possible? If it is, would we still receive a comp pick? It sounds plausible, and if it is, its actually quite brilliant. With that said, it is probably incredibly unlikely, but good thinking.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:44 pm

Yes a player opt out clause is possible, remember Sabathia held one with the Yanks that he used to virtually extend / renegotiate the contract. The only requirements for a team re: receiving compensation for a player is the player has to play for the team for be entire season and be offered the deal. It's highly unprobable but outside the box thinking at the same time. Use the system to work the system sort of idea. In similar fashion sign and trade deals are possible if you do the homework you find out a FA could be traded prior to June 15th ONLY with the players written permission. My point is the Tribe could be creative and continue to add talent with out side the box methods, some of which may be difficult but IMO they have to lead the way in such creativity to become and remain a competitive team.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:55 pm

If Michael Bourn is the "best" FA remaining.. the Indians would do well to pass on him.. for several reasons...

His second half was pretty Casey Kotchman-esque.. Now, all kinds of excuses can be made for this, playing while injured, trying too hard, attempting to buck up on power.. but he failed.. and failed miserably.. Whatever the reason, he didn't perform any better that Matt LaPorta..btw.. the three years prior to 2012, Bourn actually showed improved performance in the second half.. getting older can be a bitch...

His agent is Scott Boras.. the Indians should show the world what they think of Scott Boras. i.e. Boras takes his clients elsewhere.. PERIOD. When the Indians acquire a Boras client.. get rid of him.. He's unwelcome.. and yes, that could hurt the club in the short term. Talk to the Cincinnati folks about Shin-soo Choo toward the trading deadline or at the end of the season for their feelings about dealing with that charlatan..

The focus for the Indians has to remain on staring pitching.. The Indians chances to compete in 2013 rest with the starting pitching staff, it's depth and it's talent. Michael Bourn, can't pitch.. and in the second half of 2012.. he couldn't hit, either..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:12 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
The focus for the Indians has to remain on staring pitching.. The Indians chances to compete in 2013 rest with the starting pitching staff, it's depth and it's talent. Michael Bourn, can't pitch.. and in the second half of 2012.. he couldn't hit, either..


I do agree with this, but we are in a unique situation with the ability to sign a type A free agent and only lose a 3rd. If we have the money and want to win, a guy like Bourne would help, even though pitching should be priority. Honestly, I think we should use Homer's idea for Lohse. Lots of people think his numbers will decline with age or the move to the AL, but he would be a major upgrade to our rotation. Maybe a backloaded 4/44 deal would get it done.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:25 pm

To clarify I wasn't saying the Tribe should go out and sign Bourn. I responded to the question from Rocky55 re: possibility of the Tribe trying to sign LaRoche. I stated I'd prefer Bourn myself and why.

Moving on, I completely agree the SP staff is first priority. I know Kyle Lohse has been mentioned but I'm just not sure the Tribe has the money unless they make a deal that relieves some salary. Personally, I'd prefer trying to sign Brett Myers bc he's been an innings-eater of sorts in the past. Word is (Hardball Talk article) that Myers wants too much money. I'd offer something similar to what Villanueva or Corriea netted 2 yrs / $10 M. Joe Saunders would be a serviceable Lefty option. Shaun Marcum has been a good SP but injury concerns dampen his mkt.

At this point it seems the Tribe could possibly net one or two of these arms or they could go the trade route. I don't think their done on the trade front but honestly a larger deal would be surprising. The draft pk comp rules have seemingly changed the mkt, keeping teams off of players that would have been gobbled up in the past. The are still a number of teams seeking to fill needs and at some point some of these teams will ante up and pay the price. Once the SP mkt runs out of decent SP teams will look to fortify their bullpens and strengthen their overall pitching options. Here's where the Tribe could make a move or two. Chris Perez would be the most obvious move but others could gather interest as well. Btw, I'd expect to see the Tribe try to add another LHRP to the mix.

Here's a link to Myers career stats...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Hardball Talk article re: Myers...
http://t.co/pDcgqkI5
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:37 pm

I'm skiddish on Lohse, his career numbers have been pretty average until the past two yrs in St.Louis. Maybe the Tribe could get him on a two yr deal with a team option. I'd guess Lohse may be able to net something like $13-$15 M per yr in the Edwin Jackson price range.

Did anybody hear the official offer to Edwin Jackson? I'm guessing it was similar to the 4 yrs / $52 M he signed with the Cubs. Tony, alluded to the Tribes interest in both Swisher and Jackson as real - they would have tried to sign both, not one or the other as I had speculated.

Here's a look at Lohse's career...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ky01.shtml
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:50 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:To clarify I wasn't saying the Tribe should go out and sign Bourn. I responded to the question from Rocky55 re: possibility of the Tribe trying to sign LaRoche. I stated I'd prefer Bourn myself and why.

Moving on, I completely agree the SP staff is first priority. I know Kyle Lohse has been mentioned but I'm just not sure the Tribe has the money unless they make a deal that relieves some salary. Personally, I'd prefer trying to sign Brett Myers bc he's been an innings-eater of sorts in the past. Word is (Hardball Talk article) that Myers wants too much money. I'd offer something similar to what Villanueva or Corriea netted 2 yrs / $10 M. Joe Saunders would be a serviceable Lefty option. Shaun Marcum has been a good SP but injury concerns dampen his mkt.

At this point it seems the Tribe could possibly net one or two of these arms or they could go the trade route. I don't think their done on the trade front but honestly a larger deal would be surprising. The draft pk comp rules have seemingly changed the mkt, keeping teams off of players that would have been gobbled up in the past. The are still a number of teams seeking to fill needs and at some point some of these teams will ante up and pay the price. Once the SP mkt runs out of decent SP teams will look to fortify their bullpens and strengthen their overall pitching options. Here's where the Tribe could make a move or two. Chris Perez would be the most obvious move but others could gather interest as well. Btw, I'd expect to see the Tribe try to add another LHRP to the mix.

Here's a link to Myers career stats...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Hardball Talk article re: Myers...
http://t.co/pDcgqkI5

I wonder what it would cost to sign Myers & Saunders. I'm assuming we don't lose draft picks signing those two. If true & we could get them both for @$25 million total for 2 yrs, they might be a good buy. I believe that they'd both be better than Ubaldo, in whom I have no confidence at all. If/when Bauer gets called up later in the year we could always move Myers back into the pen. Saunders would give us a good needed LHSP. Two years of those two would stabilize things & give us time to develop replacements. Something along these lines doesn't look too bad:

Masterson
McAllister
Saunders
Myers
Carrasco

If Ubaldo turns it around, so much the better. Carrasco's #5 to limit IP. If anyone gets hurt, Kluber's around & later Bauer. This would be a large improvement over last year.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:56 pm

Bourn over LaRoche?.. okay. I'd be inclined to go LaRoche as he'd be a 3 year deal @ a the same or a lower rate.. and LaRoche can hit. Bourn relies, to an extent, on his wheels to create his offense. As a 30 year old, wheels on a five or six year deal raises a "?". and Boras as his agent?. Sorry, but we're all filled up on masochism for now..

Brett Meyers, SP/RP who wants too much money versus Boras client Lohse who wants too much money?.. okay.. honestly, neither are very exciting for their own reasons.. The only thing about these two guys is they can pitch, especially Lohse...

Going over a Prospect spotlight site, an argument was being made for the Mets to find a relief pitcher. The Mets also are looking for a cost controlled OF'er. I might suggest a two step deal.. The first part would be deal with the Mets for Daniel Murphy. The Indians send one of Bryan Shaw, Matt Albers or Frank Herrmann along with Cord Phelps & Ezequiel Carrera to the Mets who return Daniel Murphy and one of Gabrial Ynoa or Rainy Lara, whoever the Indians prefer.. The end game for this deal would then see Daniel Murphy being sent from the Indians to the DBax as a one for one, in the person of Gerrardo Parra. I think it works pretty well. Unless Daniel Murphy is kept & the second part of the deal is left undone. The Indians use Murph for their jack of all trades 1B/LF/2B/3B/DH...and have a new upside arm in the minors.. thoughts?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:06 pm

There are only 4 FA remaining tied to draft pk comp. They are...

RSoriano
LaRoche
Bourn
Lohse

Any other FA is not tied to draft pk compensation.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:39 pm

GSon,

Aviles = Murphy - similar type roles?

For now...If at a point some time in the future the Tribe does actually pull the trigger on an ACab move I'd expect they'd be interested another player who could pull off that type of role.

I think we will see the Tribe make a few moves, in fact they will be forced into decisions on some of these guys. I believe Huff, Gomez and Carrera are all out of options. Carrera was once a Mets farmhand so I could see a return there at some point and the Mets lack OF. As for pkg two or three of these guys in a deal, I think it may be a larger type deal that clears a few spots. I could see the Tribe pull off a few minor deals to clear room maybe a cash or PTBNL type deal.

I know many probably think the trade season is pretty much done, but the mkt has changed somewhat bc of draft pk comp. The Tribe is still looking for upgrades (as are other teams) and one or two may have to come through trades as the Tribe still is working with somewhat a limited albeit improved budget.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:19 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:GSon,

Aviles = Murphy - similar type roles?

For now...If at a point some time in the future the Tribe does actually pull the trigger on an ACab move I'd expect they'd be interested another player who could pull off that type of role.

I think we will see the Tribe make a few moves, in fact they will be forced into decisions on some of these guys. I believe Huff, Gomez and Carrera are all out of options. Carrera was once a Mets farmhand so I could see a return there at some point and the Mets lack OF. As for pkg two or three of these guys in a deal, I think it may be a larger type deal that clears a few spots. I could see the Tribe pull off a few minor deals to clear room maybe a cash or PTBNL type deal.

I know many probably think the trade season is pretty much done, but the mkt has changed somewhat bc of draft pk comp. The Tribe is still looking for upgrades (as are other teams) and one or two may have to come through trades as the Tribe still is working with somewhat a limited albeit improved budget.


yes to the Aviles question... Save for the ability to play SS, they do fill similar roles. Murph is more of a corner guy (1b/3B in the infield, RF/LF in the outfield, some 2B).. The purpose behind the deal is to use optionless talent & bullpen depth to secure a realistic and contributing major league player or players while acquiring a deep SP prospect..

Only LaRoche on your 4 FA list is not represented by Scott Boras (SFX)
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:04 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Going over a Prospect spotlight site, an argument was being made for the Mets to find a relief pitcher. The Mets also are looking for a cost controlled OF'er. I might suggest a two step deal.. The first part would be deal with the Mets for Daniel Murphy. The Indians send one of Bryan Shaw, Matt Albers or Frank Herrmann along with Cord Phelps & Ezequiel Carrera to the Mets who return Daniel Murphy and one of Gabrial Ynoa or Rainy Lara, whoever the Indians prefer.. The end game for this deal would then see Daniel Murphy being sent from the Indians to the DBax as a one for one, in the person of Gerrardo Parra. I think it works pretty well. Unless Daniel Murphy is kept & the second part of the deal is left undone. The Indians use Murph for their jack of all trades 1B/LF/2B/3B/DH...and have a new upside arm in the minors.. thoughts?


Daniel Murphy would be an excellent depth option. If the Mets would take Hermann/Phelps/Carrera then yes but more likely Albers/Phelps/Carrera for that return (I'd like to hold onto Shaw). With Murphy our bench would potentially look like this:

Gomes, Aviles, Murphy, McGuinness/McDade/Laporta, and Marson (1 will be the DH or in the field).

As for Laroche v. Bourn......I like them both....Laroche has had an injury past but I think he'd be the better option. Bourrn had a very bad 2nd half in a contract year but it was laughable to compare his 2nd half to Kotchman. Kotchman couldn't do much offensively (from an offense position) and Bourn was still able to contribute offensively from a defensive postion. Bourn has excellent speed and knows how to read a pitcher. This puts pressure on the opposing defensively and lets guys below him see more fastballs....I do think this is a moot arguement as I think it is a pipe dream to acquire either guy.
Last edited by daingean on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:12 am

...think this is a moot argument as I think it is a pipe dream to acquire either guy....


hmm.. So, you think that either Bourn or LaRoche would be acquisitions that would help the team?

I agree with you on Shaw >>Albers.. Shaw is also a lot younger & less expensive..

you don't have a preference for the two "deep" mets SP prospects?

and you'd be inclined to keep Murph while opening up two roster spots in that three for one trade?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:20 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
...think this is a moot argument as I think it is a pipe dream to acquire either guy....


hmm.. So, you think that either Bourn or LaRoche would be acquisitions that would help the team?

I agree with you on Shaw >>Albers.. Shaw is also a lot younger & less expensive..

you don't have a preference for the two "deep" mets SP prospects?

and you'd be inclined to keep Murph while opening up two roster spots in that three for one trade?


They would help the team but why even discuss, the Indians are not going to sign either guy. I would also question whether they would help the team as much as they would cost (unless a trade for others is worked out).

Of the 2 prospects, I'd go with Ynoa as I like his delivery better (Lara leads with the elbow a bit) but that again doesn't matter because both are slotted for A ball next year and the Indians would just move them to the pen eventually (I have very little confidence in them developing starting pitching) and would rather spend assets trading for guys at AA or above.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:44 pm

The recent addition of Cody Ross to the Dbax has some fans and experts scratching their heads...Is this the time to trade Justin Upton finally? OR...was the move made to offset a potential trade of vet OF Jason Kubel, maybe it was bc they are on the verge of moving Gerardo Parra instead, OR...maybe it was done to provide depth to move one of Adam Eaton or AJ Pollock. The signing of Cody Ross gave the Dbax surplus which at some point will be cashed in.

This is how Kevin Towers does things, providing his team options. A model the Tribe appears to be using perhaps to a lesser extent right now, but something they look to do into the future. The Tribes strengths are the bullpen, middle of the diamond infielders and catching depth as well.

So far this offseason the Tribe has acq. four pitchers; one SP and three RP (Bauer, Wood, Albers, Shaw). The Tribe has also traded away two RP (Rogers, Sipp). At this point I don't think anyone would argue the fact the Tribe has upgraded the pitching staff on the whole. The team is not done and they hold pitching depth which can and likely will be utilized at some point either during the remaining offseason or sometime during the season.

The Tribe still hold 3/4 of their big trade chips (Masterson, CPerez, ACab), with almost anyone available for the right price. CA has expressed interest in adding to the clubs alternatives at the big league level and the upper level of the minors as well. Looking over the Tribes 40 - man roster it's obvious they need to upgrade the starting pitching staff, CA and company have expressed the desire to add young high upside talent or the right veteran SP.

The question now becomes, who?
Although, the real question rather, may be how many?
So now, the question becomes how?

As I've said the Tribe has options, utilizing their resources ($$$) could be an effective means. Their other alternatives simply come down to maybe moving CPerez and / or ACab. Justin Masterson at this point is too valuable a piece to move unless he himself were traded for a cpl SP that offer high upsides and now MLB ready talents. So I turn again to the bullpen depth and IF depth found in All Stars CPerez and ACab. These are the Tribes most valuable trade pieces outside of Masterson and top prospect Francisco Lindor. At some point, I expect the Tribe to perhaps to move both for SP it may be this offseason or it could go into this coming season, but I think it's safe to say they will be traded for pitching at some point.

Here's a link to an article on Kevin Towers OF options...
http://www.mlb.com/r/article?ymd=201212 ... b&c_id=mlb
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:19 pm

The Tampa Bay Rays are in the market for a reliever, but not just ANY reliever.. The Rays fit the Indians profile of having an extensive list of SP's in their farm system. At the outset, CPerez would not be who the Rays would be interested in.. it would have to be relievers the Indians don't want to lose. That is guys like Vinnie Pestano & Cody Allen. Perhaps add Bryan Shaw to the list of candidates, as well..

Pitchers in the Rays system that could be made available include:

-Chris Archer
-Mike Montgomery
-Jeff Niemann
-Jeremy Hellickson
-Alex Colome'

Position players in the Rays system that could be made available include but are not limited to:

-Richie Shaffer
-Mikie Mahtook

Does anyone see a potential deal between the Rays and Indians?.. does everyone see a potential deal?...

Edit: BTW: this is kind of an answer to Homer's posting above about "How"?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:34 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The Tampa Bay Rays are in the market for a reliever, but not just ANY reliever.. The Rays fit the Indians profile of having an extensive list of SP's in their farm system. At the outset, CPerez would not be who the Rays would be interested in.. it would have to be relievers the Indians don't want to lose. That is guys like Vinnie Pestano & Cody Allen. Perhaps add Bryan Shaw to the list of candidates, as well..

Pitchers in the Rays system that could be made available include:

-Chris Archer
-Mike Montgomery
-Jeff Niemann
-Jeremy Hellickson
-Alex Colome'

Position players in the Rays system that could be made available include but are not limited to:

-Richie Shaffer
-Mikie Mahtook

Does anyone see a potential deal between the Rays and Indians?.. does everyone see a potential deal?...

Edit: BTW: this is kind of an answer to Homer's posting above about "How"?


Don't see a deal happening. I really like Chris Archer though
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:25 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The Tampa Bay Rays are in the market for a reliever, but not just ANY reliever.. The Rays fit the Indians profile of having an extensive list of SP's in their farm system. At the outset, CPerez would not be who the Rays would be interested in.. it would have to be relievers the Indians don't want to lose. That is guys like Vinnie Pestano & Cody Allen. Perhaps add Bryan Shaw to the list of candidates, as well..

Pitchers in the Rays system that could be made available include:

-Chris Archer
-Mike Montgomery
-Jeff Niemann
-Jeremy Hellickson
-Alex Colome'

Position players in the Rays system that could be made available include but are not limited to:

-Richie Shaffer
-Mikie Mahtook

Does anyone see a potential deal between the Rays and Indians?.. does everyone see a potential deal?...

Edit: BTW: this is kind of an answer to Homer's posting above about "How"?


I think I read that they're not trying to trade anymore pitching after the Shields deal. I would imagine Hellickson and Archer would be off the table in trades even if we were sending them Perez or Pestano.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:36 pm

BrianM wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The Tampa Bay Rays are in the market for a reliever, but not just ANY reliever.. The Rays fit the Indians profile of having an extensive list of SP's in their farm system. At the outset, CPerez would not be who the Rays would be interested in.. it would have to be relievers the Indians don't want to lose. That is guys like Vinnie Pestano & Cody Allen. Perhaps add Bryan Shaw to the list of candidates, as well..

Pitchers in the Rays system that could be made available include:

-Chris Archer
-Mike Montgomery
-Jeff Niemann
-Jeremy Hellickson
-Alex Colome'

Position players in the Rays system that could be made available include but are not limited to:

-Richie Shaffer
-Mikie Mahtook

Does anyone see a potential deal between the Rays and Indians?.. does everyone see a potential deal?...

Edit: BTW: this is kind of an answer to Homer's posting above about "How"?


I think I read that they're not trying to trade anymore pitching after the Shields deal. I would imagine Hellickson and Archer would be off the table in trades even if we were sending them Perez or Pestano.


The ML active roster for the Rays has a group of seven starters listed including David Price, Matt Moore, Jeremy Hellickson, Alex Cobb, Jeff Niemann, Roberto Hernandez, and Chris Archer (btw.. I am surprised Jake Odorizzi isn't listed on their depth chart as a potential SP candidate for the Rays). You may be correct/right about the Rays being a bit gun shy about sending any one of those seven away in trade for a reliever. The other two pitchers I have listed along with the two young position players.. certainly should be considered as "available". In fact, the Rays are similar to many teams in that they don't seem to have a depth or degree of "loyalty" to acquired players in comparison to drafted players. Maybe, it's just my imagination.. At any rate, if the Indians could squeeze out Montgomery and one of the two hitters for an RP.. GITTERDONE !!... :biggrin
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:51 pm

If the Tribe and Rays were to make a deal it would probably be of the lesser sorts, ie: no Perez / Pestano involved. I'd think they would have interest in Bryan Shaw. I'd be a bit hesitant to deal him unless the Tribe were to get a real piece (larger / better player) back in a trade.

I'd think we could see the Tribe try to flip Smith or Albers for an arm. To gauge a trade of this magnitude, rather lack of magnitude I'd compare the Edwin Mujica trade last season to the Cards for Zach Cox OR Brad Lincoln for Travis Snider deals. Smith is almost a comparable talent to Mujica and both are in similar contract situations.

All of that said, the Rays have several young LHSP, one of which might not put a dent in their system. Here's a few names I'd consider...
Mike Montgomery
Felipe Rivero
Blake Snell
Enny Romero

Alex Torres... maybe straight up for Albers? Torres seems like LHRP could fill that need...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:14 pm

Happy New Year peeps!

Now onto business....FWIW

@ProspectInsider: Hearing Mariners have progressed in trade talks for a hitter. Indications it's Ethier. Multiple players involved.
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