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Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Sun May 06, 2012 4:51 pm

Ubaldo shut down the best team in baseball today. Great job, great job by the Indians coaching staff.

He's a difference maker when he's right.

If we had a Manny or Belle in our line up righ now, we could contend with the big boys. Lack of RH hitter over the long haul will hurt the Indians with late inning match ups. Teams playing us won't have to burn their bullpens in close games with match ups. We have way to many LH hitters at the moment.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun May 06, 2012 5:06 pm

ironmike wrote:Ubaldo shut down the best team in baseball today. Great job, great job by the Indians coaching staff.

He's a difference maker when he's right.

If we had a Manny or Belle in our line up righ now, we could contend with the big boys. Lack of RH hitter over the long haul will hurt the Indians with late inning match ups. Teams playing us won't have to burn their bullpens in close games with match ups. We have way to many LH hitters at the moment.


Great start for Ubaldo. Hopefully a step in the right direction for him. Still needs to cut down on the walks, but very encouraging.

I think closer to the deadline, the Indians may target a RH bat. Granted, it won't be someone like a Miguel Cabrera or someone of that stature, but if we're in contention.. I think we can still pick up a RH hitter who can contribute. We have a few pieces we could potentially deal.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sun May 06, 2012 6:23 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
ironmike wrote:Ubaldo shut down the best team in baseball today. Great job, great job by the Indians coaching staff.

He's a difference maker when he's right.

If we had a Manny or Belle in our line up righ now, we could contend with the big boys. Lack of RH hitter over the long haul will hurt the Indians with late inning match ups. Teams playing us won't have to burn their bullpens in close games with match ups. We have way to many LH hitters at the moment.


Great start for Ubaldo. Hopefully a step in the right direction for him. Still needs to cut down on the walks, but very encouraging.

I think closer to the deadline, the Indians may target a RH bat. Granted, it won't be someone like a Miguel Cabrera or someone of that stature, but if we're in contention.. I think we can still pick up a RH hitter who can contribute. We have a few pieces we could potentially deal.

Maybe Willingham. Twinks aren't going anywhere. I wonder why they even signed him.

Kipnis=Kinsler.
1) Who'da thunk it?
2) Is Kip topped out or will he get better? Better would mean elite.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun May 06, 2012 7:58 pm

criznit2009 wrote:if the tribe takes the DH tomorrow, it would be hard for even the most cynical fan to deny that cleveland does have a competitive team that actually has a real chance to make the play-offs. Just imagine how good this team would be with a top-tier, or even a "better then avg." 1B....


Criz.. Couple of things..

-the Northeast Ohio area has Seldom Right Ocker and Paul Clueless Hoynes as the primary beat writers.. Once in a while, Terry "Buy my book" Plute chimes in, but only to point out what the other two classless and clueless morons have already copied from an out of town source (remember..if it's breaking news.. it isn't coming from Hoynes or Ocker.. they don't have any actual contact with the players)..

-There are people who are still pissed at Art Modell, former owner of the Cleveland Browns.. for firing Paul Brown. HELLO??? Art was the owner.. it's his team to put whoever the hell he wants as his coach (btw.. I thought Blanton Collier was an extremely underrated mentor and seer of the game).. To this day.. people still hold a grudge and hate.. It's a long and tough road to make people believe this owner. Mr Dolan, who's been maligned by the clueless trio, has a the plan and ability to truly win their hearts... Two years after the second WS championship.. and then, only maybe.. would be my guess....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 pm

GeronimoSon wrote: It's a long and tough road to make people believe this owner. Mr Dolan, who's been maligned by the clueless trio, has a the plan and ability to truly win their hearts... Two years after the second WS championship.. and then, only maybe.. would be my guess....


One of the problems that Dolan has is that he followed a legend owner (by Cleveland standards)....Another problem is that he overpaid for the franchise....thirdly he bought back the common stock which I think was a huge public relations boost when the public stock was out there...Finally, the economics of baseball have continued to get out of wack (where Jacobs could field a consistently competitive team and sign a FA every now and then i.e. Robbie)....I've not been one to call him cheap as some have but the only way he will get the love is to field a World Series winner....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:27 pm

Rocky55 wrote: Maybe Willingham. Twinks aren't going anywhere. I wonder why they even signed him.
.

Rocky, don't get me wrong with this question, but why would the Twins deal him to the Tribe? And if a deal could be explored, would you want to see our trade chips up to 18 times a season?? In fact when was the last time the 2 teams reached a significant trade? I'm thinking Paul Sorrento and that's because a deal for Knoblauch could never get reached.

Sure the squads have made deals but normally we are talking a salary dump on a contract that is about to expire (Thome & Pavano). It's said that the Tribe had interest in Slowey for a while but instead of coming to an agreement directly, Slowey ended up being dealt to Colorado 1st & the Tribe started working on a deal that day.

If Justin Morneau is down again, the move of the Twins to add Winningham makes a lot more sense in the short term and he becomes a future trade chip if they need it.

Personally I think a deal for Carlos Lee is much more likely.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sun May 06, 2012 10:49 pm

ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


Yep, I'm putting an end to it. Adios.

I think it was pretty clear based on the person's posts that they came in here just to pick a fight and be an a-hole. No loss.

Carry on.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon May 07, 2012 12:20 am

MadThinker88 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote: Maybe Willingham. Twinks aren't going anywhere. I wonder why they even signed him.
.

Rocky, don't get me wrong with this question, but why would the Twins deal him to the Tribe? And if a deal could be explored, would you want to see our trade chips up to 18 times a season?? In fact when was the last time the 2 teams reached a significant trade? I'm thinking Paul Sorrento and that's because a deal for Knoblauch could never get reached.

Sure the squads have made deals but normally we are talking a salary dump on a contract that is about to expire (Thome & Pavano). It's said that the Tribe had interest in Slowey for a while but instead of coming to an agreement directly, Slowey ended up being dealt to Colorado 1st & the Tribe started working on a deal that day.

If Justin Morneau is down again, the move of the Twins to add Winningham makes a lot more sense in the short term and he becomes a future trade chip if they need it.

Personally I think a deal for Carlos Lee is much more likely.


Carlos Lee was a guy I mentioned on the podcast today. The Astros have to be willing to eat a lot of his salary to get the deal done though. Lee is a guy who I believe is a realistic target though. Wouldn't mind the trade either, as long as we didn't give up a ton to get him.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 07, 2012 1:46 am

A.Zajac wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote: Maybe Willingham. Twinks aren't going anywhere. I wonder why they even signed him.
.

Rocky, don't get me wrong with this question, but why would the Twins deal him to the Tribe? And if a deal could be explored, would you want to see our trade chips up to 18 times a season?? In fact when was the last time the 2 teams reached a significant trade? I'm thinking Paul Sorrento and that's because a deal for Knoblauch could never get reached.

Sure the squads have made deals but normally we are talking a salary dump on a contract that is about to expire (Thome & Pavano). It's said that the Tribe had interest in Slowey for a while but instead of coming to an agreement directly, Slowey ended up being dealt to Colorado 1st & the Tribe started working on a deal that day.

If Justin Morneau is down again, the move of the Twins to add Winningham makes a lot more sense in the short term and he becomes a future trade chip if they need it.

Personally I think a deal for Carlos Lee is much more likely.


Carlos Lee was a guy I mentioned on the podcast today. The Astros have to be willing to eat a lot of his salary to get the deal done though. Lee is a guy who I believe is a realistic target though. Wouldn't mind the trade either, as long as we didn't give up a ton to get him.


Wonder what will happen as the season progresses, and though unlikely its possible the Stroh's are in the market to improve their team, when we close in on the trade deadline. A Stroh's team in a play-off run prolly wants to keep Carlos Lee. Though its likely Lee will remain a constant rumor, as we reach the deadline who knows what becomes avail..There will be more rumors and names later. So I am hoping for a better player then Carlos Lee for now.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Mon May 07, 2012 3:38 am

Re Carlos Lee..... after searching a few sites, I found that Lee has a limited no-trade clause that allows him to veto a trade to any of 14 teams he has designated. It was speculated that his list would include all AL teams with the exception of the Texas Rangers. The reasons for this appear to be A) Carlos does not want to go to the AL and possibly DH and B) he'd DH for the Rangers(probably gladly) since it would allow him to remain near his cattle ranch. This speculation makes a lot of sense considering the number(14) of teams on his veto list.

Of course having veto power, and using it are two different things. Lee could accept a trade to any team he wants. Barring injuries, Texas doesn't appear to need him. Cleveland could use him, and use him in the field, not strictly as a DH. The Kotchman signing was a dubious one, not only because he's a lefty bat, but he's a lefty with litlle or no power. He's so low on the lineup card, he's bumping into Lou Marson. As soon as Hannahan remembers he can't hit either, we're gonna be laughably weak(again) at the corner infield positions.....hell, we're already laughably weak there. I know we needed someone to catch the damn ball at 1B, but we can't continue long with a guy who hits a single or draws a walk every now and then and hope to survive with him. He's not repeating his last season, and even if he did, he would still suck. Matt LaPorta and Jerad Goedert are starting to look good again and that's not even funny.

I'm not a big Carlos Lee fan, but he can still mash occasionally and pitchers respect him. He MIGHT would come here and Houston would probably eat all of his salary for the right prospects. They need pitching; we've got low guys like Sterling or Araujo and we got high guys like Kluber or McAllister. We'll probably give LaPorta another shot before long, but whether it's Lee or someone else, I think we'll need to make a deal and upgrade at 1B. We need a banger at 1B, we need Grady back, and we will probably need Chis back at 3rd before too long. I don't like weak links in our offense cuz some teams ain't got 'em.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Mon May 07, 2012 3:47 am

On a more positive note, I'm glad we have Damon and I'm not griping about Chris Perez. I still think Perez is lucky, but he don't seem to care what I think. He's been pretty good since opening day and he even strikes somebody out now and then. Walks are down and no HRs allowed. He's cool....for now. :cool
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 07, 2012 7:59 am

Observations/Musings on Sunday's game / Kotchman / Lee / CP...

-While the announced crowd was something like 18K, the noise generated was good to the point of electric..It was a beautiful day at the park.. As the season progresses, there will be more fans coming to see these guys. What they'll see and feel is a buzz throughout the stands as the games progress.. This is a good club.. Some of the Ubaldo haters were boo'ing when he filled the bases after two were out in the early going, but they were given the opportunity to just stfu when he escaped.. It looked like Ubaldo's velocity was clearly "up" in the early going, then he started throwing a bunch of sliders and curve balls. His sidearm 'frisbee' curve had more than one Rangers' knees buckling.. It was a beautiful thing to watch.. 13 days in first place and counting...

-Kotchman hit two balls hard, one for a meaningless hit.. the other right at the infielder.. He was shaky on a couple of pop ups, but made the plays.. it was a blah / nothing game from him and his buck sixty BA...

-Carlos Lee: For whatever reason, price, longevity, athleticism, etc.. he just doesn't fit with this club. While I'd be thrilled with trading Kotchman (and a spec) to the Astros for Lee while picking up his entire remaining salary, it's highly doubtful (read IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN) the Dis-Astros would be willing to take Kotchman and his reputed great glove....

-Chris Perez now leads the major leagues in saves over the likes of Craig Kimbrel and Jonathan Papelbon.. He just gets the job done.. Save for the three run blown save on opening day.. he's been the best closer in Major League Baseball.. period.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 am

The CWSox return to the corner of Carnegie and Ontario for today's game.. WGN will be airing the game, if it's not blacked out locally.. The CBA will allow both clubs to call up a pitcher from the minors, so, we'll get a chance to hear (at least) and possibly watch Z-Mac in his ML debut for the 2012 season... Phil Humber and Zach McAllister are paired in the day portion of the separate admission double header while Josh Tomlin will face Eric Stultz in the nightcap.

As per usual with the CWSox.. the Indians cannot let Paul Konerko beat them.. in either game..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 8:12 am

Looking at the schedule, the Tribe has 15 games this month against AL Central opponents. They could really open up some distance with a good month. And the only team they play with a winning record the rest of the month is Detroit at 14-13.

The weather is warming up, the Tribe's in first place, time to kick it into high gear.

Props to Manny for getting his team off to a good start for the second year in a row, something Wedge was almost never able to accomplish.

The Tribe is 14-7 since getting off to a 1-4 start. So much fun watching a winning team after the Browns and Cavs seasons.

Hell, when Casey Kotchman gets a line drive base hit and a stolen base in the same game, you know something magical is happening. But they can't count on pop-ups being lost in the sun every Sunday.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 8:23 am

GeronimoSon wrote:The CWSox return to the corner of Carnegie and Ontario for today's game.. WGN will be airing the game, if it's not blacked out locally.. The CBA will allow both clubs to call up a pitcher from the minors, so, we'll get a chance to hear (at least) and possibly watch Z-Mac in his ML debut for the 2012 season... Phil Humber and Zach McAllister are paired in the day portion of the separate admission double header while Josh Tomlin will face Eric Stultz in the nightcap.

As per usual with the CWSox.. the Indians cannot let Paul Konerko beat them.. in either game..


Both teams are bringing up minor leaguers to start, but they aren't matched up against each other.

Since throwing that perfect game against the Mariners, Humber has pitched 11 innings, giving up 12 hits, 9 walks, and 12 earned runs. The Tribe got 3 runs in 6 innings off him last week; let's see if they can do better the second time around.

Konerko always kills the Tribe but Adam Dunn is the guy that scares me. He already has 9 dingers which is tough in April when the ball doesn't carry that well. I expect him to get walked four times today if he plays both games.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:28 am

odd factoid - despite Kotchmans poor offensive showing so far, somehow he has more HR's AND SB's then Mr. Michael Brantley.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 07, 2012 12:26 pm

The weather for the game looks iffy.. rain all around...

Pretty much the everyday lineups in game one today for both teams..Brett Lilibridge at 3B in place of Morel is the only real changle. Konerko at 1B instead of DH'ing.. Dunn takes the DH spot.. The CWSox will probably flip them for game two this evening..

Z-Mac needs to throw strkes.. early in the count.. Strike One will be crucial for him today..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 07, 2012 12:49 pm

criznit2009 wrote:odd factoid - despite Kotchmans poor offensive showing so far, somehow he has more HR's AND SB's then Mr. Michael Brantley.


Kotchman is now 3rd on the team in steals....already matched his career high...set back in 2004. Crazy.

Thing that has me worried with Brantley still is that he's got 2 steals, but been caught 4 times. Was really hoping he'd improve in that department this year.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 07, 2012 12:50 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The weather for the game looks iffy.. rain all around...

Pretty much the everyday lineups in game one today for both teams..Brett Lilibridge at 3B in place of Morel is the only real changle. Konerko at 1B instead of DH'ing.. Dunn takes the DH spot.. The CWSox will probably flip them for game two this evening..

Z-Mac needs to throw strkes.. early in the count.. Strike One will be crucial for him today..


Putting the over-under on number of rain delays today at 2.5.

Sun looks like it's trying to peek thru the clouds right now over the lake. Hopefully they can get in at least one game today if not both.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Mon May 07, 2012 1:10 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:odd factoid - despite Kotchmans poor offensive showing so far, somehow he has more HR's AND SB's then Mr. Michael Brantley.


Kotchman is now 3rd on the team in steals....already matched his career high...set back in 2004. Crazy.

Thing that has me worried with Brantley still is that he's got 2 steals, but been caught 4 times. Was really hoping he'd improve in that department this year.


Kind of shows 1 thing though. Kotchman can/will take the base if they aren't holding him on or the pitcher is ignoring him. Truth is though that pitchers are still not concerned what Kotchman will run on them so it's not altering how they approach hitters with Casey on base. I'm not as concerned about the number of steals as much as how being on-base affects a pitcher. Most pitchers have somewhat of a drop off when working out of the stretch and especially pitch selection when a real SB threat is on base.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Well.. this has been a fun game for the handful of Indians' fans that braved going downtown today..

-PRONK just murdered his homer.. The seat back that homer hit 14 back in right center may have to be replaced if the usher's can't get the ball out of the dent where it embedded...

edit: Hafner is just crushing the ball.. he can't hit it much harder than he has today.. only has a homer and a triple to show for it.. but it could easily be a career kind of day...

-Brantley has hit two pitcher pitches.. nice to see...

edit: and a two run double on top of that.. nice to see Brantley go down and get that ball..

-Kotchman was out at second base on that hit in the third inning.. Alexi rubbed the inside of Kotchman's left instep with his mitt.. but Kotchman got the call.. The pitch Kotchman hit was one even Hermie could handle.. right now the middle, thigh high, no movement, about 86 mph...

7-2 and still at bat...

edit: 8-4 score.. It was a decent outing for Z-Mac.. not one that screams he deserves another start, but, one that says he can be counted on to come up and throw strikes.. He's gonna be back.. now onto Jairo Ascencio with a four run lead and the top of the order...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 5:03 pm

That 9th inning was brutal for Ascencio. With a 4-run lead all he had to do was relax and throw strikes. Instead he totally lost it. Nice job by Hags in shutting down the rally and a ballsy move by Acta to let him stay in. I got the feeling he wanted to see how Hags reacts to a pressure situation.

With Raffie Perez out for a while and Sipp blowing hot and cold as usual they're going to have to depend on Hagadone in some tight situations.

I'm ready to cut Ascencio loose and bring up Cody Burns right now. And as soon as CC Lee is healthy and pitching well I'd have him replace Wheeler.

Hafner looks to be out of his slump. A homer, a triple off the center field wall, and even the out he made with the bases loaded was a vicious line drive right at the shortstop. I wonder if he can play a doubleheader. We'll find out shortly.

Armstrong was unimpressive, giving up four runs in six innings. He did strike out Adam Dunn a couple of times, so I'll give him that. His velocity improved as he went along. He looks like a AAAA player like Huff and LaPorta and Crowe.

Next year's rotation: Masterson, Ubaldo, Jeanmar Gomez, Tomlin, and Carrasco with Scott Barnes and Armstrong as the first two options. Roberto Hernandez should be back by then but I don't think he makes the cut.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon May 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Who the hell is Armstrong?
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon May 07, 2012 5:27 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I'm ready to cut Ascencio loose and bring up Cody Burns right now. And as soon as CC Lee is healthy and pitching well I'd have him replace Wheeler.

You mean Cory Burns? Good luck with that... he's struggling badly in AAA, and then there's the whole problem of him being traded to San Diego in the off-season for Aaron Cunningham.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Mon May 07, 2012 5:55 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Who the hell is Armstrong?


We got him from the Reds back in '91....hasn't pitched since '94 though.....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 07, 2012 6:04 pm

You got 2 solid innings out of Asencio...Acta got a little greedy there. Been 4 weeks since he had thrown 20 pitches in an outing and was over 30 heading into the 9th (believe he had thrown 36, by far his most this season). Has only thrown twice now since April 25th, but still could tell he was out of gas there. Can understand sending him out, but should have been pulled after the walks. Clearly didn't have it anymore, shouldn't have faced Ramirez IMO.

Was a lil surprised too that Acta let McAllister back out there for the 6th. Over 90 pitches thru 5, could have turned it over to the pen but let the kid go out. Liked it.


Very, very disappointed the Indians weren't able to take advantage of knocking the starter out in the 3rd. Could have really gotten into that Sox pen and with the double header and 2 more games in the series after today...could have been huge. Gotta give Quintana credit for pitching well in his debut, but letting a reliever go 5+ innings..Indians blew a chance of really hurting that pen. Had 20 looks at him...1 hit and 2 walks...that's it. Sad...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Good job today for McAllister - got his 1st ML win!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:41 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:I'm ready to cut Ascencio loose and bring up Cody Burns right now. And as soon as CC Lee is healthy and pitching well I'd have him replace Wheeler.

You mean Cory Burns? Good luck with that... he's struggling badly in AAA, and then there's the whole problem of him being traded to San Diego in the off-season for Aaron Cunningham.


I think he was referencing Cody Allen....
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 9:08 pm

Yeah, thanks, I'm having problems with names today.

Come on, it's raining like all hell. Call this game.

A lot of firsts today. First time Indians pitchers got their first career win (McAlister) and first career save (Hagadone) in the same game in I forget how many years. First time in five years Pronk homered and tripled in the same game. First time Tomlin got 8 K's this year.

I still say Santana is lunging at the ball and trying to hit every pitch 500 feet. I'd like to see him shorten his swing just a bit and make more consistent hard contact. But he's playing a great defensive first base so far. The pick on that throw by Donald was sweet and so was the play where he had to jump to haul in Kipnis' throw and also make the tag.

Time to get Tomlin. He's over 100 pitches and he just walked a guy. Tying run now on base. There's a base hit that found a hole. Better get him, Manny.

Edit: Yep, he got him.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Can't believe the umps waited this long to call for the tarp. Inning never should have started. This lightning show is pretty neat though..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 9:19 pm

Tarp just went down. Hope it rains all night but with two White Sox aboard in a one-run game I think the umps will try to finish it if at all possible.

Last year Tomlin averaged 4.8 K's per 9 innings. So far this year he's up to 7.1; an increase of nearly 50%. I wonder if something has changed or if it's an early season fluke. The announcers mentioned that he got 19 swings and misses tonight. Granted he was going against a watered-down White Sox lineup without Konerko and Pierzinski, but still, he's missing a lot more bats than last year.

The key with Tomlin is avoiding the long ball, especially against lefties. Dunn just missed taking him deep tonight.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon May 07, 2012 9:54 pm

The heavy rain will continue for quite sometime in Cleveland.. not sure they'll be able to finish this game.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Mon May 07, 2012 11:11 pm

Ball game. Duncan comes through with a clutch double. The guy's been horrible lately but came through when it counted.

Sipp got the save but almost gave up a two-run HR when he grooved a fastball that missed the foul pole by inches. Lucky guy.

Tribe is now 17-11 overall and 16-7 since starting out 1-4. They keep finding ways to win.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue May 08, 2012 6:34 am

Hey - just checked and saw Seattle beat Detroit late last night. I am seeing two surprises. The Tribe is playing beyond my expectations and Detroit is playing below my expectations. Was Detroit in August and September an aberration or a reality soon to return?

Bob
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 08, 2012 8:08 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Hey - just checked and saw Seattle beat Detroit late last night. I am seeing two surprises. The Tribe is playing beyond my expectations and Detroit is playing below my expectations. Was Detroit in August and September an aberration or a reality soon to return?

Bob

The smart money would be on Detroit's August/September being a reality.. when or if it returns is TBD. The Tigers are a talented group of players led by an old school manager and veteran coaches.. The return of Fister is a huge start to fix what ails the Motor City Kitties..

w/r to the Tigers hitters.. Andy Dirks and Austin Jackson have started out the season way above what was expected. The loss of Vmart coupled with the relatively slow start by both Alex Avila & Miguel Cabrera have kept the Tigers from being an offensive juggernaut. Prince is doing exactly what was expected.. Jhonny P is back to being that .265-.275 mediocre defensive SS who has a little pop, no more no less. Delmon "Sieg Heil" Young and Brennan Boesch are struggling along with the rest of the Tiger attack. In short the Tigers have too many "rally killers" right now.. that could change at any time..

w/r to the Tigers pitching staff, this area might be considered disappointing. After Verlander, no one in their starting rotation to open the season has been worth a warm bucket.. Fister (now back after a side muscle strain) and Smly have become the Tiger's # 2 and #3, respectively.. the rest of the Tigers rotation has been not great.. not even good. Porcello doesn't seem to be getting it especially as it relates to consistency.. Mad Max Scherzer is in that same boat. The Tigers' pen has also been disappointing, primarily because of Valverde. PapaGrande has proven to be fallible having blown two of his seven save chances while giving up a lot of hits and walks.. If he doesn't turn it around this will be a long season for the Motown Meow'ers...

Will the Tigers eventually put it all back together.. as stated above.. the smart money says yes.. Here's hoping the hole the Tigers dig is soooo deep they won't be able to dig out.. not likely, but, possible..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 08, 2012 8:21 am

Prosecutor wrote:Tarp just went down. Hope it rains all night but with two White Sox aboard in a one-run game I think the umps will try to finish it if at all possible.

Last year Tomlin averaged 4.8 K's per 9 innings. So far this year he's up to 7.1; an increase of nearly 50%. I wonder if something has changed or if it's an early season fluke. The announcers mentioned that he got 19 swings and misses tonight. Granted he was going against a watered-down White Sox lineup without Konerko and Pierzinski, but still, he's missing a lot more bats than last year.

The key with Tomlin is avoiding the long ball, especially against lefties. Dunn just missed taking him deep tonight.


I just love the way Tomlin battles.. He doesn't nibble like so many young pitchers tend to do.. He goes right at guys and trusts his stuff. That cutter he throws and the command he has along with his ability to change speeds so deceptively is making him into a prototypical # 3 starter.. A damn fine one..

BTW.. the key to Tomlin's success is two fold: keeping runners off the base paths by giving up free passes (7 BB's in 35 IP) and throwing strike one: 1.42 ERA / .204 BAA, versus 14.73 ERA / .374 BAA.. That's right, when he throws strike one or gets ahead in the count, the opposition loses about 175 points off their batting average and he becomes flat out devastating !!..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue May 08, 2012 8:37 am

Another key to Tomlin's success is not giving up home runs. That was his biggest problem last year.

So far he's given up only 3 dingers in 34 2/3 innings, or one HR every 11.5 innings. Last year he gave up a HR every 6.9 innings. He's giving up 38% less HR's this year to go along with nearly 50% more strikeouts.

Last year I thought Tomlin was one of those pitchers with marginal stuff who can get by for a while by fooling hitters and having impeccable control, but eventually hitters would figure him out. IOW, another Jeremy Sowers. I thought this might be the year where the hitters start catching up with him, like they did with Sowers in his second season, but so far it looks like that's not the case. If anything, he's taken another step forward.

Edit: I just checked - it turns out all of six of Tomlin's appearances have come against KC, Seattle, and the White Sox, teams ranked 8th, 10th, and 12th in scoring. Maybe I'll temper my enthusiasm until I see him pitch against an above-average offense.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 08, 2012 9:23 am

Prosecutor wrote:Another key to Tomlin's success is not giving up home runs. That was his biggest problem last year.

So far he's given up only 3 dingers in 34 2/3 innings, or one HR every 11.5 innings. Last year he gave up a HR every 6.9 innings. He's giving up 38% less HR's this year to go along with nearly 50% more strikeouts.

Last year I thought Tomlin was one of those pitchers with marginal stuff who can get by for a while by fooling hitters and having impeccable control, but eventually hitters would figure him out. IOW, another Jeremy Sowers. I thought this might be the year where the hitters start catching up with him, like they did with Sowers in his second season, but so far it looks like that's not the case. If anything, he's taken another step forward.

Edit: I just checked - it turns out all of six of Tomlin's appearances have come against KC, Seattle, and the White Sox, teams ranked 8th, 10th, and 12th in scoring. Maybe I'll temper my enthusiasm until I see him pitch against an above-average offense.


Tomlin's next three scheduled opponents are the Red Sox in Boston on Saturday, the Mariners in Cleveland a week from Thursday and the Tigers in Cleveland the following Wednesday. Tomlin owns a collective 5-4 career record in ten starts with an ERA /BAA of 4.50/.230, 6.11/.306, and 4.62/.268 against, respectively. Should continue to be a fascinating part of the continuing career of young Mr Tomlin as a Cleveland Indian...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 08, 2012 12:32 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Another key to Tomlin's success is not giving up home runs. That was his biggest problem last year.

So far he's given up only 3 dingers in 34 2/3 innings, or one HR every 11.5 innings. Last year he gave up a HR every 6.9 innings. He's giving up 38% less HR's this year to go along with nearly 50% more strikeouts.

Last year I thought Tomlin was one of those pitchers with marginal stuff who can get by for a while by fooling hitters and having impeccable control, but eventually hitters would figure him out. IOW, another Jeremy Sowers. I thought this might be the year where the hitters start catching up with him, like they did with Sowers in his second season, but so far it looks like that's not the case. If anything, he's taken another step forward.

Edit: I just checked - it turns out all of six of Tomlin's appearances have come against KC, Seattle, and the White Sox, teams ranked 8th, 10th, and 12th in scoring. Maybe I'll temper my enthusiasm until I see him pitch against an above-average offense.


Agree completely, Tomlin needs to keep the ball in the yard to be successful.....hopefully he's able to continue when the weather improves....that ball Dunn hit yesterday is in the trees in July. ERA was under 3 I believe last year thru May...over 5 June on. Hopefully he can keep ahead of hitters adjustments this year though. Definitely pulling for him.

Gotta like the bump in K-rate too. Seems to be more "wild" this year which is actually a benefit to Tomlin IMO.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 08, 2012 12:36 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Hey - just checked and saw Seattle beat Detroit late last night. I am seeing two surprises. The Tribe is playing beyond my expectations and Detroit is playing below my expectations. Was Detroit in August and September an aberration or a reality soon to return?

Bob


The Tigers are still a dangerous team. I dont think too many people are surprised though that Valverde has come out and shown signs of being human as a closer. Didn't blow a save all of last year...no way was that going to happen again, he's simply not that good.

Really think the key for the Tigers is the same as the Indians.....the guy they traded for at the deadline, aka Fister (Ubaldo for us). He was dynamite last year for them in August and September. Only 2 appearances this year so far....if he can pitch anywhere near how he did last year the Tigers are a dangerous team that will be tough to beat...unless of course Ubaldo can step up and be equally as good.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Tue May 08, 2012 12:48 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
The Tigers are still a dangerous team. I dont think too many people are surprised though that Valverde has come out and shown signs of being human as a closer. Didn't blow a save all of last year...no way was that going to happen again, he's simply not that good.


Valverde to me is Jose Mesa II.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 08, 2012 1:48 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
The Tigers are still a dangerous team. I dont think too many people are surprised though that Valverde has come out and shown signs of being human as a closer. Didn't blow a save all of last year...no way was that going to happen again, he's simply not that good.


Valverde to me is Jose Mesa II.


So should Omar Vizquel not dig in very deep when facing Papa Grande?..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Tue May 08, 2012 2:52 pm

Hermie, where the heck have you been?

Tomlin has always done well against good teams. Hell he one hit the Yankees in his first ever start and then beat them again.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue May 08, 2012 5:46 pm

ironmike wrote:Hermie, where the heck have you been?

Tomlin has always done well against good teams. Hell he one hit the Yankees in his first ever start and then beat them again.



According to ESPN's game log, it was 7 innings of 3-hit ball for Tomlin in his first start vs Yanks, numbers he duplicated in his 3rd start against them. In his second start vs Yanks, they bashed him for 12 hits and 6 runs in five innings.

Not that I won't take 2 outta 3, just sayin'...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue May 08, 2012 7:02 pm

Kipnis is getting all the attention on offense it seems....but damn is Cabrera off to a great start.

Since he came back from Venezuela following his grandpa's death, he's hitting .412/.508/.588/1.096, a HR, 9 BB to only 5 K's in 14 games.

Power is down this year but walk rate is way up. I'll say it again but I actually think the best Cabrera is the one that's not hittting a ton of HRs. Still on pace for 18 or so but think that last year he fell too in love with the longball. Taking the ball to all fields, OBP up over .400, walk rate up over 11% and even crazier K-rate down under 8%. Not expecting the K-rate to stay that low or the walk rate to remain quite that high, but definitely looks different at the plate. Looks more 2008/2010 like to me.

Throw in the power carrying over from last year (ISO is actually higher than last year)...Cabrera looks to be in line for the best season of his career...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 am

Hermie13 wrote:Cabrera looks to be in line for the best season of his career...


Considering that it's tough to hit in the chill of April, Cabrera is in great position to put up big numbers this year. He's in a good spot now hitting in the 3-hole with Santana and Pronk coming up behind him, so he's getting good pitches to hit. If Damon and Brantley (whoever is hitting leadoff) could get on base a little more often it would help Asdrubal even more.

Once the ball starts carrying better the HRs should pick up, too.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed May 09, 2012 8:51 am

By the way, Hagadone was filthy last night. Struck out the side, including Adam Dunn, who the other pitchers were afraid to pitch to. When he's hitting the outside corner with that sweeping curve against lefties and also coming in with that 96-mph fastball, they have no chance.

When Raffie is ready to return I think we'll have three lefties in the pen. I can't see them sending Hags down and keeping Wheeler and Ascencio.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 09, 2012 9:17 am

Musings on the 5-3 extra inning loss to the CWSox...

-Bases loaded in the seventh inning.. and.. nothing.. Strike out and double play line drive right at the 1B puts an end to the rally.. A run scores there and every thing changes.. perhaps a W instead of extra innings.

-Not that it SHOULD matter, but Chris Perez in a non-save situation has not and continues to not work..

-Carlos Santana's swing seems to be getting longer and longer.. Shorten it up little guy..

-Justin Masterson really didn't have anything in last night's game.. Command of his sinking fastball was marginal, velo was down, back door slider was working well, not that Todd Tichenor, home plate umpire, was calling a strike a strike..

-Nick Hagadone was just nasty.. Could he have stayed on in the 9th inning?.. probably?.

Jake Peavy v. JeanMar Gomez tonight should be a goooooooood matchup.. Peavy has been pitching like his hair is on fire for the Southsiders.. JeanMar has pitched well against the pale hose, however, it's a very limited sampling..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:17 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Musings on the 5-3 extra inning loss to the CWSox...

-Bases loaded in the seventh inning.. and.. nothing.. Strike out and double play line drive right at the 1B puts an end to the rally.. A run scores there and every thing changes.. perhaps a W instead of extra innings.

-Not that it SHOULD matter, but Chris Perez in a non-save situation has not and continues to not work..

-Carlos Santana's swing seems to be getting longer and longer.. Shorten it up little guy..

-Justin Masterson really didn't have anything in last night's game.. Command of his sinking fastball was marginal, velo was down, back door slider was working well, not that Todd Tichenor, home plate umpire, was calling a strike a strike..

-Nick Hagadone was just nasty.. Could he have stayed on in the 9th inning?.. probably?.

Jake Peavy v. JeanMar Gomez tonight should be a goooooooood matchup.. Peavy has been pitching like his hair is on fire for the Southsiders.. JeanMar has pitched well against the pale hose, however, it's a very limited sampling..


Slight correction, bases weren't loaded in the 7th....and there wasn't a strikeout. IMO it was worse....runners on the corner, Duncan had just walked on 4 pitches, Santana went to 3rd on a wild pitch during the at-bat and practically walked himself. Danks was all over the place....so what does Choo do? Swings at the FIRST FRACKIN PITCH and pops up to shallow center. Then what does Brantley do? Swings at the FIRST PITCH and a double play inning over. That's right, Danks couldn't hit the broad side of a barn the first two batters then gets 3 outs on 2 pitches! ugh. Tribe has done so well working counts and getting their pitch to hit this year, but with men on base (especially man on 3rd and bases loaded) they get way too antsy. Cabrera did that opening day too grounding into the double play with 5 infielders...swung at the 1st pitch there too.

I was surprised Perez came into the 10th. I'd have thought you'd have used him either in the 9th instead of Hags or given Perez an extra day off and turned to Pestano or better yet, allowed Hags to go in the 10th.

Maybe it's me but Santana's swing still looks longer from the left side. Loved how he took that ball back up the middle against Sale in the 8th. Didn't try to do too much with that pitch. Also added another 2 walks and a double...great day at the plate (poor SB attempt though).

Masterson has been frustrating of late. Kept the team in the game yesterday, but man he's walking guys at a Ubaldo like rate. Was getting squeezed a little I guess but seen worse. Brantley didn't help him out in the 1st though defensively either (IMO that should have been an error...ball right in the mitt, didn't need to 'hop' there). a CFer makes that catch more often than not.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed May 09, 2012 2:57 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:-Not that it SHOULD matter, but Chris Perez in a non-save situation has not and continues to not work..


Funny you should mention that, because there's a good write up today about how that story is not at all supported by statistics:

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/ ... d-stories/

GeronimoSon wrote:-Nick Hagadone was just nasty.. Could he have stayed on in the 9th inning?.. probably?


Hagadone has awesome stuff for sure. I'm somewhat skeptical for the moment on him, just because relievers with good stuff tend to be really good their first go-around in the majors before teams start to adjust to them. Tony Sipp might be a good example of this. I would like to see more of him before I anoint him the left-handed version of Pestano. But I really like what the Indians have with him. I'd like to see him stay on the roster, but the Indians would have to sacrifice some depth to do it. Their worst relievers (Ascensio, Wheeler) don't have options, so unless you'd like to send down Smith, Sipp, Pestano or Perez there's nobody to send down instead when Raffy gets back. With CC Lee out for awhile, the Indians don't have a lot of depth down there behind Hagadone. It's really just Barnes and Herrmann right now.
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