RSS Twitter Facebook YouTube
Expand Menu

NFL Draft

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:22 pm

I know there's lots of Browns fans on here, and we're now less than a week from the NFL Draft.

Personally will be very, very upset if the pick at #4 is anything other than Claiborne or Richardson. Got a really bad feeling though that Blackmon is going to be it though...

Who do you want/think the Browns should/will do at 4? and/or the rest of the draft?
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby daingean » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:57 pm

This Draft really is top 6 heavy so if they decide to trade down then don't trade out of the top 6.

Richardson - I've seen a lot of data that a RB in the top 5 (or 10 for that matter) has been overdrafts in the last 15 years....Tomlinson was really the only guy. Richardson may be the exception but the I most of the data shows that you still need 2 backs to carry the load in this day and age. Guys like McFadden and Peterson have had good seasons but haven't stayed healthy.

Claiborne - With him and Hadden, this could bring back memories of the Dixon-Minniefield tandem which really made the rest of the Browns defense look good in the 2nd half of the 1980's. While this team needs offense (in a bad way), a move like this could set the team up defensively for years.

Blackmon - One thing about the WCO, receivers have to be able to read the defense (this is one area that hurt the Browns last year - mostly because they changed to a WCO without a full off-season). Blackmon (if drafted) would be the Browns #1 receiver but does he have enough football intelligence to be a productive WR in the WCO? That's the question that needs to be answered before the pick is made.

I don't think Kahlil will be available but if he is, this team doesn't need a LT (they do need a RT) and he has LT value. If this is the case, you almost have to trade (and the return should be plentiful).

If I were drafting, I take Claiborne because I think he represents the best value. Then a WR, RT, and RB with the next 3 picks.

I do know, I don't want a QB early because while Tannyhill and Weeden may have good careers, I wouldn't bet on them where they are going to be picked.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:19 pm

Personally, I think Trent Richardson is the pk at 4... With that said the Browns I believe will trade back with the Rams and pk Mo Clairborne or Richardson there. The Browns have tons of holes and adding any of the top 6 guys would be great for the talent and depth of this team if a another top 50 pk were acq. by trading back within the top 6 pks.

I just cant see the Browns placing that kind of value on Kalil. He's not a Joe Thomas type IMO and there is depth in Glenn, Adams, Martin, Massie, Schwartz.

As far as Ryan Tanneyhill is concerned I think he could be a solid NFL QB but he probably needs 2-3 yrs of time and patience. The Browns could potentially try to add pieces around him if they are convinced he will be a franchise type arm. Mark Sanchez started 24 gms in college so it is not unheard of to have talented but inexperienced QB drafted (over-rated) too highly. While I like Tanneyhill, I see him more as a pk 22 type of talent than at 4. QBs however, drive up the value based solely on position.
homerawayfromhome
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:54 pm

There are a couple of things to consider w/r to the Browns draft position:

1. The first three slots are almost assuredly locked.. Luck/RGIII/Kalil..
2. The Browns will probably run to the podium and Trent Richardson will be a Brown.. hooray, they can't screw this up..
or can they?.. The key will be Jacksonville & the Browns..

Looking at picks 5 through 7:

-Tampa Bay at # 5: They are almost DESPERATE for a CB.. both of their current guys are going to jail.. they HAVE TO GET the best CB on the board. If Claiborne is there, he's their guy..

-St Louis at # 6: They are in love with Justin Blackmon. Like the Browns, the St Louis QB, Bradford, needs targets..and Blackmon is certainly the best of an "okay" crop of WR's this year.. If he's on the board, Blackmon is their guy.. If the Browns make a trade to put Jacksonville at # 4, then the Rams will probably switch to defense, taking the best of a very good pair of defensive linemen in Fletcher Cox or Mel Ingram..

-Jacksonville at # 7: Would dearly love the best WR in the draft and could move up three spots to get him.. The Jags have the # 38 over all pick, so that could be the cost for moving up three spots.

That leaves the Browns with the # 7 pick (and the # 38 overall in the second round from Jacksonville in the trade) where they can chose between Trent Richardson and Michael Floyd. At # 22, the Browns can take Kendall Wright or Jonathan Martin (the O-Lineman from Stanford, if they select Floyd over Richardson). The Browns can then sit back and wait for their two second rounder (#'s 37 & 38) picks where they may get Wheeden and an OLB/DE like Whitney Mercilus...

So, by trading down three spots, the Browns still get Richardson, still get Kendall Wright or Jonathan Martin, still get Brandon Wheeden and fill the need at OLB/DE with Mercilus.. But, like I stated at the outset of this note, it's still most likely that we'll see: @ # 4, the Browns select Trent Richardson and are content to draft with the picks they already have...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:43 pm

Guess I see things a lot differently. Only 5 top talents in this draft. Blackmon is a nice talent, but he's too undersized to be taken top 10, let alone top 5. Some team will grab him top 10, but there are many that don't even feel his the best WR in this draft. Some talk out of St. Louis that they could even pass on Blackmon at 6 going either defense or even Floyd who is taller and faster. They sound far from in love with Blackmon. If we traded with the Rams, they very likely go Claiborne and not Blackmon at 4 (could use a CB and BPA), though you never know.

Since 2000, the bust rate for short WRs (6'2 and under) is currently sitting at a whopping 100%. I do not think Blackmon will be a bust, but the value is clearly not there, even less than a RB. He's that type of WR you grab in the 20s or early 2nd round. More Anquan Boldin than Larry Fitz. Not a bad thing, but not top 10 material.

I would be careful about expecting Richardson to be there at 6 if the Browns trade down. Bucs would be very hard pressed to pass on him at 5. While CB is a big need, they did sign Wright and Ronde Barder can stay at corner if need be (he's undersized for a move to safety anyways). That offense could go to the next level with Freeman. They added a #1 WR in Jackson, have a solid TE in Winslow...just missing a real RB. Blount already seems to be clashing with the coaches there. RB situation in TB is not much better than Cleveland. If both Claiborne and T-Rich are there for the Bucs...don't be surprised if the new coach goes offense and takes Richardson. That teams needs to get weapons around their young QB same as the Browns.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:38 pm

IMO Blackmon is more a top 10 talent rather than top 5. Personally Id prefer Michael Floyd over Blackmon. I think the Browns would still like to slide back a few pks add another top 50 pk or two and get a cpl guys they really like. Never know though. Holmgren could have been blown away by Taneyhill during his recent visit. Holmgren seems absolutely enamored by Bradford, and wanted him then again with Griffin. Taneyhill could have had a Bradford type impact on Holmgren. While I think if they did get Taneyhill it would be over drafting, I do believe Taneyhill could be a good NFL QB in 2-3 yrs time, but thats the key to the Browns...do they have that time to develop him?
I think ppl make too much out of Holmgren not attending his workout.
All that said the Browns will take a RB in rd 1/2, will draft a cpl OL, a QB, and a cpl DBS. The truth is they will fill all those holes, but the question is with what pks.
I think the Browns want to drop back a few pks and still land the same guys. Then in the middle rds they will begin to target depth and possibly look to trade a cpl pks for a player or maybe a pk next yr. Simply put the Browns do not want 13 pks fighting for roster spots, theyd prefer to utilize them as ammo and target their guys.
homerawayfromhome
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby ironmike » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:31 pm

We are getting to that time to listen for what is not being said by NFL GM's versus what is being reported. Therein lies the answers.
User avatar
ironmike
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:28 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:57 pm

I want Richardson, no questions asked.
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby daingean » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:47 pm

A.Zajac wrote:I want Richardson, no questions asked.


I'd be okay with Claiborne or Richardson as both will be quality pros. The Browns have a lot of holes and both guys will fill in. I'm leaning more towards Claiborne as he's an every down defensive player. RB's have a lot of wear-n-tear and are more like 20 minute guys than the 30 minute. Plus with a good RT and a G (added to what they got) a lot of guys can be good RB's but I don't think anybody (even Jim Brown) will be effective unless this team improves those OL positions (but they do have the picks to fill those OL holes). In reality Thomas and Mack are good (to excellent) linemen but a missed block by a G or RT and no RB will be effective. But also filling those holes and Richardson can be a game changer RB.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:09 am

daingean wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:I want Richardson, no questions asked.


I'd be okay with Claiborne or Richardson as both will be quality pros. The Browns have a lot of holes and both guys will fill in. I'm leaning more towards Claiborne as he's an every down defensive player. RB's have a lot of wear-n-tear and are more like 20 minute guys than the 30 minute. Plus with a good RT and a G (added to what they got) a lot of guys can be good RB's but I don't think anybody (even Jim Brown) will be effective unless this team improves those OL positions (but they do have the picks to fill those OL holes). In reality Thomas and Mack are good (to excellent) linemen but a missed block by a G or RT and no RB will be effective. But also filling those holes and Richardson can be a game changer RB.


I'd be okay with Blackmon. Wouldn't be ecstatic, but I'd be okay with it. IMO though he's going to be a second caliber reciever in that he's not going to be the next Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald.. rather, I see him as more like an Hakeem Nicks.. I think we'd all still take an Hakeem Nicks.. but at 4, you want an elite player.. and I grade Richardson out as elite, with Blackmon slightly under elite. Claiborne is interesting. Had this team be in a different set of circumstances, I'd say let's go for it. But this team desperately needs offense. I think he has the chance to be really good, but again, not great.

FWIW, here's my draft grades:
Andrew Luck 99
RGIII 97
Matt Kalil 96
Trent Richardson 95
Morris Claiborne 93
Fletcher Cox 93
Melvin Ingram 92
Luke Kuechly 91
Mark Barron 90
Justin Blackmon 89
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:25 am

All I know is I want nothing to do with Tannehill or Weddon. Blah. Waste of our #22 pick or 2nd rounder.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5056
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:19 pm

I believe the Browns make the pk. Don't trade the 4 th. although they listen... But are not convinced by any offers.
I look for a very busy draft from the Browns adding potentially 10 players to the roster (from 13 pks).
I believe we will see the Browns make at least one move up into the late first or second rd to grab a WR.

Trent Richardson-RB is the pk at 4.
Richardson is one of the few gm changers in this draft. There are other good backs that will be there at 22 and 37 but Richardson will add an explosive element to the offense that only Luck or RG 3 would offer.

As much talk about Weeden and Tannehill I'm not convinced they bite on either but instead look to develop Cousins, Coleman or Foles.
1a Trent Richardson-Rb
1b Stephen hill-WR
2 Lavonte David-LB
3 Mitchell Schwartz-RT
4a Antonio Allen-S
4b Nick Foles-QB
homerawayfromhome
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:07 pm

hmm..

-The first pick, Trent Richardson is as close to a no brainer as it gets for the Browns if they go RB and not CB like Morris Claiborne, which, imho, would be a huge mistake. It would be a pretty big surprise if the Browns went for a WR, especially with the choices and the potential for Justin Blackmon being the next Steve Holden...

-Alshon Jeffery from South Carolina has vastly better hands and "get the ball" skills than Stephen Hill from the Rambling Wreck school. One thing that should be said about Hill, he is thee fastest MOFO in the draft.. If the Browns do go WR with their second first round pick, then they will have a tough time choosing between these two guys and perhaps one other, Rueben Randle from LSU. This assumes the Browns have 'spoiled' on Kendall Wright for whatever reason..

-Lavonte David would be a solid/spectacular pick in the second round and fulfills a dire need for the Browns, however, some of the Mock Drafts have him going as early as late in the second half of the second round. Size does matter and if the Browns find one of Mike Adams (OSU Guy), Cordy Glenn (Lots of helium for this guy, he's going to be a good one), or Jonathan Martin (smart and athletic) early in the second round, that's where they may strike gold for the O-Line..

-At QB.. A real project, but having all the tools necessary to become the next Joe Flacco or better would be ASU's Brock Osweiller. He's big & he's got a very strong arm while still being able to make the touch passes to the wings and corners. The Browns seem to like Sun Devil guys for some reason.. Osweiller as a project QB could be the choice in the later rounds..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:02 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:1a Trent Richardson-Rb
1b Stephen hill-WR
2 Lavonte David-LB
3 Mitchell Schwartz-RT
4a Antonio Allen-S
4b Nick Foles-QB


I would totally be down with this draft, especially the first 3 rounds. Would prefer a CB and looking to move Brown to Safety, but could live with a guy like Allen in the 4th.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:15 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:-Alshon Jeffery from South Carolina has vastly better hands and "get the ball" skills than Stephen Hill from the Rambling Wreck school. One thing that should be said about Hill, he is thee fastest MOFO in the draft.. If the Browns do go WR with their second first round pick, then they will have a tough time choosing between these two guys and perhaps one other, Rueben Randle from LSU. This assumes the Browns have 'spoiled' on Kendall Wright for whatever reason..


-At QB.. A real project, but having all the tools necessary to become the next Joe Flacco or better would be ASU's Brock Osweiller. He's big & he's got a very strong arm while still being able to make the touch passes to the wings and corners. The Browns seem to like Sun Devil guys for some reason.. Osweiller as a project QB could be the choice in the later rounds..


Hill just seems like the speedster that Heckert likes. Took Jackson round 2 and Maclin was a quick WR as well. I'd also include Floyd in the WR talk. Not at 4 and not likely to make it to 22, but if he falls to the teens (maybe 13 to Arizona) think the Browns could be tempted to move up. Heckert traded up to get Hardesty 2 years ago and Taylor last year. Moved up to get Maclin when with Philly. He's not afraid to get the guy he wants and Floyd may be the best WR in this draft.


I like Osweiller too, though sounds like he could go as high as 2nd round...if he made it to the 4th I'd be all over him, maybe consider him 3rd, but he's gonna need a lot of time to develop.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Interesting story in the Canton Supository over the weekend.. Bernie Kosar believes that the Jacksonville Jaguars may be interested in moving up to get in front of the Rams so they can draft Justin Blackmon.. Wonder where I heard that before?..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:10 pm

A couple of interesting notes..

-Mary Kay Blab-it seems to be digging her 4 inch stilettos in w/r to her Mock Draft, having the Browns take Justin Blackmon, now in her fifth version of her Mock Draft...

-Would the Browns be interested in dropping out of the # 4 spot.. all the way down to the # 16.. giving the Jets Trent Richardson while getting the Jet's # 16, their second and a fourth this year.. and a # 1 plus next year?..

Seems like the fun is just beginning...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:36 pm

daingean wrote:This Draft really is top 6 heavy so if they decide to trade down then don't trade out of the top 6.

Richardson - I've seen a lot of data that a RB in the top 5 (or 10 for that matter) has been overdrafts in the last 15 years....Tomlinson was really the only guy. Richardson may be the exception but the I most of the data shows that you still need 2 backs to carry the load in this day and age. Guys like McFadden and Peterson have had good seasons but haven't stayed healthy.

Claiborne - With him and Hadden, this could bring back memories of the Dixon-Minniefield tandem which really made the rest of the Browns defense look good in the 2nd half of the 1980's. While this team needs offense (in a bad way), a move like this could set the team up defensively for years.

Blackmon - One thing about the WCO, receivers have to be able to read the defense (this is one area that hurt the Browns last year - mostly because they changed to a WCO without a full off-season). Blackmon (if drafted) would be the Browns #1 receiver but does he have enough football intelligence to be a productive WR in the WCO? That's the question that needs to be answered before the pick is made.

I don't think Kahlil will be available but if he is, this team doesn't need a LT (they do need a RT) and he has LT value. If this is the case, you almost have to trade (and the return should be plentiful).

If I were drafting, I take Claiborne because I think he represents the best value. Then a WR, RT, and RB with the next 3 picks.

I do know, I don't want a QB early because while Tannyhill and Weeden may have good careers, I wouldn't bet on them where they are going to be picked.

Agree with Claiborne as the pick. Really strengthens the defense overall. Then Fleener if available unless Cordy Glen is available. I'd love to get those three guys. Probably not possible. Lamar Miller would be a good get at RB. Homer mentioned Lavonte David which would be great also. Lots of ways to go. Agree with the Falcons writer who calls WR's "Shiny Hood Ornaments". Wouldn't be happy if Blackmon was the pick despite Mary Kay's crush.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby daingean » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:35 am

Rocky55 wrote:Agree with Claiborne as the pick. Really strengthens the defense overall. Then Fleener if available unless Cordy Glen is available. I'd love to get those three guys. Probably not possible. Lamar Miller would be a good get at RB. Homer mentioned Lavonte David which would be great also. Lots of ways to go. Agree with the Falcons writer who calls WR's "Shiny Hood Ornaments". Wouldn't be happy if Blackmon was the pick despite Mary Kay's crush.


I hope with the Team's brain trust it comes down to Claiborne or Richardson. IMO, Richardson would slightly be the better player but Claiborne would be the best value (by a lot). My basis on that is a CB is an every down player (on the defensive side) while any RB would only be on the field for 80% of the offensive snaps.

I am also hoping Reif drops to 22 (I've seen it on 1 or 2 mock drafts) and the team takes him. Then the team can address the O play makers.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:36 pm

daingean wrote:I hope with the Team's brain trust it comes down to Claiborne or Richardson. IMO, Richardson would slightly be the better player but Claiborne would be the best value (by a lot). My basis on that is a CB is an every down player (on the defensive side) while any RB would only be on the field for 80% of the offensive snaps.

I am also hoping Reif drops to 22 (I've seen it on 1 or 2 mock drafts) and the team takes him. Then the team can address the O play makers.


I agree that Claiborne is a better value pick, but wouldn't say by a lot. I don't believe a CB has ever gone higher than 3rd overall, taking one 4th really isn't that much of a "value" IMO. Obviously RBs aren't as highly thought of though, but I think Richardson could see a pretty large portion of offesnive snaps. He's a 3-down type of back, good blocker and good hands so can be in there on 3rd downs.

I'm with you (and most), can live with richardson or Claiborne, but T-Rich would be my choice.

This draft is reminding me a bit of the 2007 draft. I really wanted AP that year...and absolutely did not want Quinn. I was more than happy though with Thomas. Really want Richardson, absolutely do not want Blackmon (or Tanny), but would be very happy with Claiborne.


I would be very pleased with Reiff at 22 as well. A guy I whouldn't hate moving up a few spots too if you needed to. Just seems too that Big Ten tackles OL tend to succeed (well, save for Gallery). Also like Glenn out of Georgia. Like his versatility and think he could end up the 2nd best OL in this draft behind Kalil.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:25 pm

What I'd like to see happen..

-@ # 4: the Browns eschew any overtures for a trade and take Trent Richardson...

-@ # 15 (trade with the Eagles: # 22 and # 68) and take Michael Floyd

-@ # 37 Browns take road grading Ole Miss Tackle Bobby Massie

In subsequent rounds.. the Browns then take guys like LaMichael James RB, Chase Minnifield CB, Brock Osweiler QB, Manny Acho LB, Kyber Wilber LB, Donald Stephenson OL, and Mike Martin DL. The top of the draft is clearly critical to fill the spots with quality depth play makers. We'll see...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:13 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:What I'd like to see happen..

-@ # 4: the Browns eschew any overtures for a trade and take Trent Richardson...

-@ # 15 (trade with the Eagles: # 22 and # 68) and take Michael Floyd

-@ # 37 Browns take road grading Ole Miss Tackle Bobby Massie

In subsequent rounds.. the Browns then take guys like LaMichael James RB, Chase Minnifield CB, Brock Osweiler QB, Manny Acho LB, Kyber Wilber LB, Donald Stephenson OL, and Mike Martin DL. The top of the draft is clearly critical to fill the spots with quality depth play makers. We'll see...


Could get behind this draft. Not a huge Massie fan at 37 but there are those that like him late 1st/early 2nd.

Like most of your later guys too, though not sure about doubling up at RB. I like James, but Browns traded up to get Hardesty so think he gets another shot as a backup at least, plus still have Jackson around and Oba-whateverhisnameis. Think you could add some WRs in there too even with Floyd already in the mix. Guy like Broyles could be a steal if he can get healthy...and I am still a fan of DeVier Posey. Obviously had a rough year at Ohio State and know the stink of Robiskie still lingers, but Posey was thought of as a late 2nd/early 3rd round guy had he come out last year. Kid has some great hands, decent size too. If he's there in the 5th I think he's a gamble worth taking. Would also like to see some kind of pass rushing DE from this draft. Like Sheard, but need someone oppositie him that can get after the QB.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:09 pm

Mayock on the NFL site has the Browns picking Blackmon @4 & Doug Martin @22. Thing is, he has Blackmon rated #10 in his top 100. Does he see the need at WR as that great, or Blackmon as that superior to the other WR's?

I'd prefer G's draft although I'd hate to give up 68 to pick Floyd. With that draft you'd almost have to take a risk pick with Janoris Jenkins, if he continues to fall & you think you can handle his baggage, if you expect to address the CB situation.
Last edited by Rocky55 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:23 pm

One of the more persistent rumors that's been bandied about is the Jets moving up from # 16 to the # 3 to take Trent Richardson.. The Viqueens would have to receive the Jets # 16 overall along with the rest of their 2012 draft and a # 1 next year to make the value fit. Seems like an awful lot for one guy, especially an RB in the top five.. but, it's New York!! They think they can get whoever they want.. arrogant pricks..

Rating this rumor: Never gonna happen...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby daingean » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:38 pm

I am leaning Claiborne over Richardson. Getting a top of the line CB in the draft is hard to pass up for a RB (not a slight on Richardson). I just believe that Claiborne will produce better results over a 3rd Round RB. At 22, I look at a RT because w/that a 3rd round RB combined with Hardesty will give you really solid results (coming close if not matching T.Rich's production). I think T.Rich is valuable but not #4 pick valuable.

If the Jets-Vikings trade does go down, the Browns really need to move from #4 because Kahlil (a LT) should be in very great demand (but not a good pick for the Browns because of Thomas). If they do move down, then grab Rief with the 1st rounder then a WR at #22.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby jellis » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:41 pm

http://draftdebacled.com/PublishedDraft.aspx?mdid=27029

my mock for those who are interested in seeing such things, I go three rounds deep. Figure it can generate more some talk
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:28 pm

jellis wrote:http://draftdebacled.com/PublishedDraft.aspx?mdid=27029

my mock for those who are interested in seeing such things, I go three rounds deep. Figure it can generate more some talk


Don't want Weeden though if the Browns are truly sold on him I suppose 2nd round is ok value. His age actually doesn't bug me (Steve Young turned 30 in 1991 when he finally became a full-time NFL starter for good)...but not a fan of Big 12 QBs of late.

Zerbie Sanders would be a nice 3rd round add if he is there. Like Hill too and love Richardson.

I've seen Kuechly mocked to the Bucs a few times. I really think he's vastly overrated but the buzz around him is undeniable. Think will struggle against top talent. I do like that you have the Rams passing on Blackmon. Not the type of WR you want to take top 10, though think the Jags are a team that could bite. I like your 1st round. Not sure on David to the Steelers though I suppose I can see it. Also don't think the Bills will go Barron. I have seen lots of talk of that pick too...but it makes no sense. They have Byrd and Wilson. Are they going to try and move Byrd to CB? Guess he did play there in college, but think this is more just talk to try and get a team to trade up so they can grab a guy like Floyd or Reiff lower. It is the Bills though so guess it is possible they grab Barron and try something odd. Took Spiller top 10 with Lynch and even Fred Jackson.

Here's mine, only a 1st rounder though:

http://www.nfldraftgeek.com/createdmockmr.php?id=1199


Probably not the best mock since I picked players for the Browns that I absolutely don't want, but am worried that both could be the pick...though I have faith in Heckert (not Holmgren).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:28 am

While I am a believer that a stud RB is the last piece you add to a team because of their limited shelf life, Richardson has to be the pick if he is available. He is going to be one of the next RB stars in this game. Claiborne could be a good CB, but I just think the value of CBs is over-stated. I think there is a huge dropoff from Richardson to the next RB, whereas not so much from Claiborne to the next CB.

I want the Browns to trade some of their picks to move up in the 1st or 2nd round. This team is FULL of depth guys, we don't need all of those picks to add more and we certainly don't need to trade down and get more picks so we get more depth guys. We need starters. Good ones. So, use trade 4-5 of those picks to move up in early rounds to get better players.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5056
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:19 pm

Keeping my fingers crossed that Holmgren will remember that the reason his Seahawks were good was not because of Hasselback (no better than Jason Campbell) and the passing game but because of his stud 1st round RB from Alabama named Shaun Alexander. Proof right there that a West Coast style of offense can flurish while being a running team. in that 2005 season (their Super Bowl season), Alexander became just the 4th RB to rush for 20+ TDs in back-to-back seasons and broke the NFL record for TDs (28) and tied the rushing TD record (27).

This franchise obviously has had a huge issue with finding a franchise QB...but they have had even more trouble finding a franchise RB. No more Rueben Droughns, Jamal Lewiss, Jerome Harrisons, Peyton Hilliss, Terrel Suggs, Montario Hardestys, Jacksons, Oba-whateverhisnameiss....draft a frackin stud RB early.

Also just hired Childress who had some guy named Adrian Peterson as his key offensive player in Minnesota....

Everything screams for this pick to Richardson, makes the most sense.....which I fear means the Browns will screw it up. ugh

Heckert...love the guy, do have some faith...but still worried...

ha, sorry for that little rant :cool
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:45 pm

TonyIPI wrote:I want the Browns to trade some of their picks to move up in the 1st or 2nd round. This team is FULL of depth guys, we don't need all of those picks to add more and we certainly don't need to trade down and get more picks so we get more depth guys. We need starters. Good ones. So, use trade 4-5 of those picks to move up in early rounds to get better players.


Agree 100% here. While we could always use more depth (every teams could), agree, what we really need is TALENT. I really think the Browns could be set up well to make 3 first round picks this year...could we see Richardson, Glenn, and Hill all taken by Cleveland tonight? :eek
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:53 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:I want the Browns to trade some of their picks to move up in the 1st or 2nd round. This team is FULL of depth guys, we don't need all of those picks to add more and we certainly don't need to trade down and get more picks so we get more depth guys. We need starters. Good ones. So, use trade 4-5 of those picks to move up in early rounds to get better players.


Agree 100% here. While we could always use more depth (every teams could), agree, what we really need is TALENT. I really think the Browns could be set up well to make 3 first round picks this year...could we see Richardson, Glenn, and Hill all taken by Cleveland tonight? :eek


OR..Alshon Jeffery if Hill is gone.. or Bobby Massie / Kevin Zeitler/ Jonathan Martin for the O-Line if Cordy Glenn is gone..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:09 pm

Brownies just moved up to #3. Gave up a 3rd.

Correction: 4th, 6th & 7th. Expensive.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:16 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Brownies just moved up to #3. Gave up a 3rd.

Correction: 4th, 6th & 7th. Expensive.


meh, if it's only a 4th, 6th, and 7th I'm not that upset. With 13 picks, odds are 2-3 of the picks we would have made wouldn't even have made the team. Wasn't impressed with the 4th round last year either.

Would have preferred to stay at 4 but better than losing out on the pick you want.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:22 pm

Correction #2: 4th, 5th, & 7th. I don't forsee any more trades after this but maybe I'm wrong. They must really like the kid.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:23 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:I want the Browns to trade some of their picks to move up in the 1st or 2nd round. This team is FULL of depth guys, we don't need all of those picks to add more and we certainly don't need to trade down and get more picks so we get more depth guys. We need starters. Good ones. So, use trade 4-5 of those picks to move up in early rounds to get better players.


Agree 100% here. While we could always use more depth (every teams could), agree, what we really need is TALENT. I really think the Browns could be set up well to make 3 first round picks this year...could we see Richardson, Glenn, and Hill all taken by Cleveland tonight? :eek


OR..Alshon Jeffery if Hill is gone.. or Bobby Massie / Kevin Zeitler/ Jonathan Martin for the O-Line if Cordy Glenn is gone..


Not a big Jeffery fan though would take him. Just not sure he's the type of WR that Heckert would like. I really hate Martin; he just reminds of Backus for some reason. Overrated on an OL with a stud guard. Zeitler...we need a RT more than a guard IMO. Massie...could live with, though would rather not trade up for that. Swartz could be had in the 2nd or Jeff Allen and think both could be as good or better. We shall see soon though!
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:27 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Correction #2: 4th, 5th, & 7th. I don't forsee any more trades after this but maybe I'm wrong. They must really like the kid.


Could be right....Browns aren't allowed to trade any of the comp picks they got so only have a couple left. Still think you could see some moving on the Browns, but may be down not up though (Heckert hinted that a tradedown at 22 could happen).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:34 pm

They are saying it's pick 118 in the 4th round....which would make it the pick we got from Atlanta last year, not our first 4th.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:55 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Brownies just moved up to #3. Gave up a 3rd.

Correction: 4th, 6th & 7th. Expensive.


That's not costly at all. 3-5 of the 13 picks they would have made might not have even made the team anyway. And 4th and later round picks don't pan out usually and are more depth guys (and as I mentioned above, we have enough depth...time to get PLAYERS). After the Redskins traded up and got the guy the Browns wanted in RG3, the Browns simply were not going to risk another team trading up and getting their guy Richardson.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5056
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:05 pm

Hell, if they have somebody they really like late 1st I'd say go get him. One of the Pat's picks almost has to be available. I'm just hoping they get a RT & a CB to go along with the RB & WR. Really don't care about Weeden.
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:13 pm

Should be pointed out too, the Browns gave up two 5ths to move up and grab Hardesty...
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:16 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Hell, if they have somebody they really like late 1st I'd say go get him. One of the Pat's picks almost has to be available. I'm just hoping they get a RT & a CB to go along with the RB & WR. Really don't care about Weeden.


Not as worried about getting a CB. Though I must admit, I was a HUGE Buster Skrine fan heading into the draft last year and was very excited when the Browns got him. I think he could develop into a solid #2 still. I also think re-signing Patterson gives the Browns some breathing room at the position.

That said, Heckert, Holmgren, and DC Jauron love their DBs....Chase Minnifield in the 5th? :biggrin
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:14 pm

Well, my night is officially ruined


DeCastro, Glenn, Hill, Upshaw, Mercelis....good lord
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:17 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well, my night is officially ruined


DeCastro, Glenn, Hill, Upshaw, Mercelis....good lord

Yeah, fuck it, going to bed. Who needs linemen & receivers & primo defensive players. We got us a 70 yr old rookie!!!
Rocky55
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:21 pm

And Reiff to the Lions...

When the Lions draft better than you, you are in trouble.


Holmgren was FIRED as GM after 4 years in Seattle. Needs fired as Team President. I refuse to believe he had no hand in this pick.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:22 pm

Ugh, and DeCastro to the Steelers....awesome...
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Edible14 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:29 pm

You know, the first or second "best available" player was a Right Tackle (Reiff, taken by the Lions next pick), which, I don't know if you've noticed, has been a hole on this team for the last... 12 years?

Or, we could have gone with the guard that the Steelers picked... instead we drafted a 28 year old QB who hardly ever has taken a snap under center and looked really good against crappy Big 12 teams (while looking awful against UT and Oklahoma) while throwing to Justin Blackmon. So we can have yet ANOTHER quarterback controversy. Color me excited for this year!

And here's the thing that gets me the most. Who the hell was going to take him before Round 2, pick 4? The rest of the teams drafting are all playoff teams, set at QB. The #1 and #2 picks in round 2 JUST TOOK A QB. Unless the Vikings are taking Weeden, there's no reason to suspect he wouldn't be there then.

AWFUL move. Ugh. I hate being a Browns fan some days.
User avatar
Edible14
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 am

Re: NFL Draft

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:29 am

Loved the pick of Richardson...even the aggressive move to trade up one spot to make sure they got him.

Hated the pick of Wedden...just not sold on him. I don't care about his arm and everything, he's kind of a project as he lacks experience and if he needs 2 years to develop, he is already freaking 30 years old when he becomes the starter. Just WAY too many better options to choose from there and probably still could have gotten Weeden in the 2nd round or even later. The Browns really reached here though. The only two QBs worth a damn in this draft that become anything noteworthy and impact a team were taken 1 and 2. The rest are just more junk being added to the league.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5056
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:12 am

Didn't realize this, but I guess Weedon just became the oldest 1st round pick in NFL draft history too...


Jinxed it. This draft has turned out almost exactly like 2007. Made a great pick with Thomas/richardson....then just ruined the draft (ok maybe this one is ruined yet) with a blah QB in Quinn/Weedon.

This pick just reminds me of Kolb too when Heckert was in Philly. Was considered a huge reach (many didn't eve have him the #3 QB). Weedon was a huge reach at 22, and some didn't even have him as the #4 QB in this draft. While Kolb looked ok, he is really just another gunslinger from a shotgun offense who has done nada in the pros.

There's bringing in competition for Colt (Jason Campbell would've been competition) and there's bringing in an obvious replacement. You dont' draft a guy in the 1st round to just be competition. Almost have to trade Colt now and just give Weedon the reigns day 1 I think.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: NFL Draft

Postby daingean » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:41 am

Hermie13 wrote:Didn't realize this, but I guess Weedon just became the oldest 1st round pick in NFL draft history too...


Jinxed it. This draft has turned out almost exactly like 2007. Made a great pick with Thomas/richardson....then just ruined the draft (ok maybe this one is ruined yet) with a blah QB in Quinn/Weedon.

This pick just reminds me of Kolb too when Heckert was in Philly. Was considered a huge reach (many didn't eve have him the #3 QB). Weedon was a huge reach at 22, and some didn't even have him as the #4 QB in this draft. While Kolb looked ok, he is really just another gunslinger from a shotgun offense who has done nada in the pros.

There's bringing in competition for Colt (Jason Campbell would've been competition) and there's bringing in an obvious replacement. You dont' draft a guy in the 1st round to just be competition. Almost have to trade Colt now and just give Weedon the reigns day 1 I think.


I don't understand the Weeden pick. He would have been available when they pick in the 2nd round. I don't like it because it takes a while for a college spread QB to pick up NFL offenses especially the WCO (which is really a read heavy O). By the time Weeden becomes proficient in this O, he'll be on the other side of 30.
daingean
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:06 pm

Re: NFL Draft

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:10 am

The question that has to asked/answered is: Did the Viqueens "punk" the Browns into giving up three bullets to guarantee the acquisition of the guy the Browns wanted?. The simple answer is, who cares, they got their guy ('ordinary' Trent Richardson) & that's good enough.. Whether the Tampa Bay Bucs were interested in moving up or if there is any truth to the rumors about "..there were teams behind us that we heard were interested in moving up.." is just Spielman, Viqueens GM, doing his job and doing it well.. Are the three late round picks an appropriate use of scarce resources?.. Probably not, but the Browns did get their guy...

The selection of Brandon Weeden at # 22 overall is a puzzle. The same lame ""..there were teams behind us that we heard were interested in him.." just doesn't fly. It would be more palatable to hear the Browns state: ".. Weeden is a guy we think will impact our offense now and into the future..". That wasn't forthcoming... perhaps to placate the sensitive ego of the Colt McCoy. Perhaps not.. who really knows.

The Browns got to watch another team, the Titans, @ # 20, take one of the three receivers deemed to be on their "want" list, Kendall Wright. The other two being Justin Blackmon, #5 & Michael Floyd, # 13 overall, respectively Oh, well, the fall back shouldn't have been, go with the old rookie QB. It should have been, get the O-Linemen they desperately need or a linebacker/DE who can get to the QB. The quality of players remaining available fit very nicely into this scenario as evidenced by three of the next five selections being O-Linemen. Reiff, DeCastro & Zeitler w/ the other two selections being linebackers Dant'a Hightower and the MERCILUS ONE. Every team drafting at this time already HAVE their QB's. The top of the second round wouldn't be a problem as the teams needing a QB already TOOK their QB's.. It just doesn't make any sense...

Now, heading into day 2 of the NFL draft, the Browns find themselves without an impact WR (several to choose from), no help for the O-Line (several to choose from) and a limited number of LB's who can impact the defenses ability to stop the run..

What 'should have been' for the Browns has now turned into "what a mess".. These guys, who are reknowned for knowing what they are doing.. appear as if they really don't know what they're doing. Perhaps that's why the Sixth Version of the five year plan (starting in 1999) with Holmgren/Heckert in charge, now completing it's second year, has seen the team go from a 5-11 record to 4-12. The team has NO IDENTITY, has no play makers on either side of the ball, has no right side to the O-Line, is unable to stop the other team's running game when it matters, and will be mired in LAST PLACE of their division, again. The Browns continue to humiliate the city and the fans who support them.
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3928
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Next

Return to Beyond The Minors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron