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Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:33 pm

Edible14 wrote:
ClevelandBlues wrote:He wouldn't be a bad insurance policy in case Hafner is on the disabled list when his suspension is up. He could go to Arizona and spend the first few months getting into playing shape while serving his suspension. It could be like the Nick Johnson signing last year. Although after missing a season and a half, turning 40, and no more ped's, it could be questionable if he has anything left.


I somewhat doubt that Manny Ramirez would take a minor league deal like Johnson took, though. Further, I'm not sure that suspension could count as being served if he's in the minors (anyone know how that works?).


I posed the question about Manny's contract to Tim Dierkes at MLB TR and he responded: Tim Dierkes: Minor league deal, maybe worth a million while in the Majors (prorated) with some PA incentives.." FWIW
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:19 pm

First off, I don't know what Matt LaPorta or Matt LaPorta's minor league stats have to do with the price of wheat in China.. but, meh..

Chris Carter & Michael Taylor were suggested as they represent athletes that could become superior major league players if they can remain healthy and move up their development just a bit..

-Chris Carter is a durable athlete, big & strong (6'4" 245)..his 2011 AAA numbers were .278/.371/.544 (up from .258/.365/..529 the previous year) show he has the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues. He has played OF and 1B, but defense really isn't what's going to make him a ML'er. It's all about the bat

-Michael Taylor is a fluid athlete, big and strong (6'6" 250) with similar numbers to Chris Carter, but has the arm and ability to play all three OF spots, but is best suited to RF. He has shown the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues along with the athleticism to be a potential five tool threat. He has played "hurt" too much during his minor league career to say he's durable, but, if healthy, he can be a beast...

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby artgold » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:24 am

I kind of agree with you GS, now that the A's have loaded up on OF'ers I'd be willing to make a deal for Carter and/or Taylor too, but only if the price was right.

I wouldn't deal much for them, how about LaPorta?

Bust for bust deal.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:45 am

artgold wrote:I kind of agree with you GS, now that the A's have loaded up on OF'ers I'd be willing to make a deal for Carter and/or Taylor too, but only if the price was right.

I wouldn't deal much for them, how about LaPorta?

Bust for bust deal.

La Porta is too good for these two old failed prospects Art. I would be thinking more on the lines of Trevor Crowe or DLC. I don't think either of those guys could carry Canzler and Cunningham's jocks whether you are looking at stats or upside potential. :pleasantry:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:55 am

artgold wrote:I kind of agree with you GS, now that the A's have loaded up on OF'ers I'd be willing to make a deal for Carter and/or Taylor too, but only if the price was right.

I wouldn't deal much for them, how about LaPorta?

Bust for bust deal.
I D K about labeling these players as "busts" (it has such a negative connotation).. I'd probably categorize these players as disappointment for disappointment, but moving into bust territory. Kind of a hedge or picking at nits type of statement...

W/R to the A's situation: The thought process skewed in a completely different direction for LaPorta only because the A's have about six guys who can play 1B thereby making the need for another 1B (LaPorta, in this scenario) pretty much unnecessary. The A's need catching, relief pitching, 3B and ML ready starting pitching at the major league level (in any order). The Indians have all four of those spots (if you include Jason Donald as a 3B) as strengths/excesses. So, the fit appears to be there, but only if the risk taking front office (see Ubaldo) wins out over the risk averse front office..

W/R to trading LaPorta, the idea that has stuck in my mind was similar to the A's situation, but, varied dependent upon the Pirates making the much ballyhoo'ed trade with the Yankees. If the Pirates and Yankees do take the plunge and trade AJ Burnett to the Pirates for Garret Jones, Matt LaPorta to the Pirates could be an inexpensive substitute. Trading Matt LaPorta along with a ML ready SP (tomlin/gomez/huff/mcallister/et al) could provide the Indians with an opportunity to acquire a player such as Jose Tabata or, even a prospect like Starling Marte, whichever guy the Indians feel is a better fit. The Pirates haven't been a good trading partner with the Indians over the years, but, there's always a chance. Someone, in an earlier posting mentioned in a trade scenario where the Pirates send Stetson Allie to the Indians. Allie, being a local boy and having had interest shown by the Indians in the past could make some sense. While it might be a 'feel good' / the prodigal son returns home story, it's doubtful the Pirates would give up on Stetson Allie this early in his development. Imho, this would be a GOOD THING for the Indians (read: I'm really not sure Allie will be anything more than a hard thrower).

BTW...Only one of the two trades would happen.. :dunno:
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:33 am

GeronimoSon wrote:First off, I don't know what Matt LaPorta or Matt LaPorta's minor league stats have to do with the price of wheat in China.. but, meh..

Chris Carter & Michael Taylor were suggested as they represent athletes that could become superior major league players if they can remain healthy and move up their development just a bit..

I don't see how players who are 25 and 26 years old and who still have not shown enough in the minors to justify more than a handful of September at-bats can be projected as "superior" major league players. How many "superior" major league position players can you name that were putting up OK but not great numbers in AAA at age 26?

-Chris Carter is a durable athlete, big & strong (6'4" 245)..his 2011 AAA numbers were .278/.371/.544 (up from .258/.365/..529 the previous year) show he has the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues. He has played OF and 1B, but defense really isn't what's going to make him a ML'er. It's all about the bat

He's listed as a first baseman. We have Kotchman now, and Santana and Duncan also play first. Then at Columbus we have LaPorta and also Beau Mills, who still has a shot after a nice comeback last year. I don't see why the Indians would want to give up anything of value for this guy. Maybe if he can play left field, assuming Brantley moves to center. But is he any better than Neal or Cunningham? And if he's a marginal defensive outfielder, does he have a better ML bat than Shelley Duncan?

-Michael Taylor is a fluid athlete, big and strong (6'6" 250) with similar numbers to Chris Carter, but has the arm and ability to play all three OF spots, but is best suited to RF. He has shown the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues along with the athleticism to be a potential five tool threat. He has played "hurt" too much during his minor league career to say he's durable, but, if healthy, he can be a beast...

He's 26 and still not a dominating AAA hitter. You admit he's frequently injured and has been a "disappointment". At 250 pounds he sounds like the A's version of Nick Weglarz. You say he's best suited to RF - what, are we trading Choo? I'll take your word that he's fluid and athletic, but where's the production? Actually, I don't know who we have in the system as a replacement for Choo when he eventually moves on, so I could see picking this guy up for a minor league reliever or 3rd baseman. I think we're set at 3rd base for at least five years.

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:49 am

Prosecutor wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:First off, I don't know what Matt LaPorta or Matt LaPorta's minor league stats have to do with the price of wheat in China.. but, meh..

Chris Carter & Michael Taylor were suggested as they represent athletes that could become superior major league players if they can remain healthy and move up their development just a bit..

I don't see how players who are 25 and 26 years old and who still have not shown enough in the minors to justify more than a handful of September at-bats can be projected as "superior" major league players. How many "superior" major league position players can you name that were putting up OK but not great numbers in AAA at age 26?

Sure, there are plenty of examples of players that fit this profile.. off the top of my head, guys in this age category could include Jackie Robinson, Tony Oliva, Mike Hargrove, Ron Kittle, Tim Salmon, Ichiro Suzuki, Eric Hinske Mike Piazza. There are literally HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of players who make it to the ML's after spending years toiling away in the minors.. These two particular players (Carter and Taylor) could be like some of the ones I've mentioned or could be average ML players..

-Chris Carter is a durable athlete, big & strong (6'4" 245)..his 2011 AAA numbers were .278/.371/.544 (up from .258/.365/..529 the previous year) show he has the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues. He has played OF and 1B, but defense really isn't what's going to make him a ML'er. It's all about the bat

He's listed as a first baseman. We have Kotchman now, and Santana and Duncan also play first. Then at Columbus we have LaPorta and also Beau Mills, who still has a shot after a nice comeback last year. I don't see why the Indians would want to give up anything of value for this guy. Maybe if he can play left field, assuming Brantley moves to center. But is he any better than Neal or Cunningham? And if he's a marginal defensive outfielder, does he have a better ML bat than Shelley Duncan?

Well.. we'll agree to disagree about Santana's time at 1B (which I believe is a distraction from him becoming an elite ML catcher) and Shelly Duncan being able to play anywhere on a baseball diamond with a glove on his left hand (for no apparent reason)isn't being considered. Chris Carter was moved to 1B and has played a significant amount of time in the OF. So, even though he's listed as a 1B, he's also played the other spots... Both LaPorta and Mills have a chance to continue to develop their abilities and become very good ML players. As far as what's being given up to acquire either one of these guys and the definition of "anything of value" is far too vague to comment on.. BTW.. As far as who's better.. that's what player development is all about.. Shelly Duncan may play HELL making this roster.. His September to remember aside, he's on the wrong side of 30 and with it, his ceiling is max'ed out and his chances for meaningful playing time are dwindling...

-Michael Taylor is a fluid athlete, big and strong (6'6" 250) with similar numbers to Chris Carter, but has the arm and ability to play all three OF spots, but is best suited to RF. He has shown the kind of offensive profile that would play well in the big leagues along with the athleticism to be a potential five tool threat. He has played "hurt" too much during his minor league career to say he's durable, but, if healthy, he can be a beast...

He's 26 and still not a dominating AAA hitter. You admit he's frequently injured and has been a "disappointment". At 250 pounds he sounds like the A's version of Nick Weglarz. You say he's best suited to RF - what, are we trading Choo? I'll take your word that he's fluid and athletic, but where's the production? Actually, I don't know who we have in the system as a replacement for Choo when he eventually moves on, so I could see picking this guy up for a minor league reliever or 3rd baseman. I think we're set at 3rd base for at least five years.

Hello?.. Billy Beane.. ?


W/R to Michael Taylor, he is a physically imposing specimen that came late to baseball. The injuries he's had have not required surgical intervention (oblique strain, wrist injury) ,but are the type that can be the impetus for bad habits.. which may be why Taylor's former DOMINATING numbers while with the Phillies haven't been replicated. The Indians really don't have anyone in the minors that come close to replacing Choo at present. So, a player like Michael Taylor, if he can put it all together, would make some sense. There is one issue that should be mentioned about him, he was part of a big trade and is the last surviving remnant of that trade. That can have an effect on the willingness of a club to trade that player..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:13 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
artgold wrote:I kind of agree with you GS, now that the A's have loaded up on OF'ers I'd be willing to make a deal for Carter and/or Taylor too, but only if the price was right.

I wouldn't deal much for them, how about LaPorta?

Bust for bust deal.

La Porta is too good for these two old failed prospects Art. I would be thinking more on the lines of Trevor Crowe or DLC. I don't think either of those guys could carry Canzler and Cunningham's jocks whether you are looking at stats or upside potential. :pleasantry:


Are you referring to Crowe and DLC here? If yes, then I agree. If you're referring too Carter and Taylor, man I don't know about that. Not a Carter fan and know Taylor's star has fallen but Cunningham has virtually no upside potential at all right now. Failed older prospect himself. At least Taylor has a minor league option.

LaPorta would be fair value for either of those two really....but I would prefer to hold onto LaPorta personally. If I was dangling anyone I'd consider Weglarz for a guy like Taylor.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:23 pm

For what it's worth (it's Hoynsie after all)

https://twitter.com/#!/hoynsie/status/1 ... 3055105024

#Indians have worked out Cuban OF Jorge Soler several times at their academy in the Dominican. Still not a free agent.


I'm sure they have, would be a great addition to any system
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:30 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:For what it's worth (it's Hoynsie after all)

https://twitter.com/#!/hoynsie/status/1 ... 3055105024

#Indians have worked out Cuban OF Jorge Soler several times at their academy in the Dominican. Still not a free agent.


I'm sure they have, would be a great addition to any system


Soler would be a huge add for us and make this rather lackluster off-season a success.

Not sure about $25M though (what is being rumored he can get)...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:28 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:For what it's worth (it's Hoynsie after all)

https://twitter.com/#!/hoynsie/status/1 ... 3055105024

#Indians have worked out Cuban OF Jorge Soler several times at their academy in the Dominican. Still not a free agent.


I'm sure they have, would be a great addition to any system


Soler would be a huge add for us and make this rather lackluster off-season a success.

Not sure about $25M though (what is being rumored he can get)...


+1

The comp that should represent Soler is a two year old contract signed by Leonys Martin.. which, I believe was just south of $ 15 MM.. so, maybe in the $ 18 MM range would be appropriate for the same length of time. IDK.. we shall see..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Edible14 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:47 pm

A.Zajac wrote:So the Indians trade Huff and Rafael Perez for Stenson Allie? No thanks. I want nothing to do with this deal at all anyway...


It would be a weird thing to do in a contending year (again, just modifying the original trade proposal, I still don't think it'd work), but I'd take that deal. Allie has a lot of upside as a power pitcher. Huff is one of 5 major league ready starters in AAA, and is 27 years old to boot. I suspect that he'll be DFA'd by the end of the year, because unless he wows in spring training, he's probably only above Kluber in the pecking order. And next year won't be any better for him. He'll be 28, out of options, and Carrasco and Rondon will be making comebacks. He'd be better off elsewhere, and I think the Pirates would probably be a good fit.

As for Raffy... relievers seldom have great value in trades. If the Indians can deal him for something good (and I think Allie is pretty good, but I'm no scout) while he's still under team control and still at a high value they should do it. There's no guarantee that he doesn't go out and bomb this year, reverting to 2009/2010 form and making him nigh-worthless to the team a year from now. Making the idea easier to swallow, Hagadone is pretty much ready to replace him as far as I can tell.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ClevelandBlues » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:55 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I don't see how players who are 25 and 26 years old and who still have not shown enough in the minors to justify more than a handful of September at-bats can be projected as "superior" major league players. How many "superior" major league position players can you name that were putting up OK but not great numbers in AAA at age 26?


....Edgar Martinez, Ryan Howard, Nelson Cruz, Josh Hamilton, Jose Bautista, David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, Kevin Youkilis, Jason Giambi, Jason Bay..... There have been a lot of good players who didn't establish themselves as major leaguers until their mid to late twenties. I am sure there are many more than this, these were just off the top of my head. There are a lot of similarities between Howard and Carter. Bigger bodied players sometimes take a little longer to put it all together. Carter hit 39 homers one season in the minors, was only 24 last season, put up a .897 ops in AAA and only has 114 at bats at the major league level. Taylor has had only 30. Laporta has over one thousand. It is a little early to declare them flops.

If Taylor and Weglarz are just different versions of the same player, I'd prefer their version to ours. Weglarz main strength is obp. He had the same as Taylor last season (.360). Taylor did have much better numbers in avg (.272 vs .179) and slugging (.456 vs .306). He also has been much healthier than Weglarz over the past few seasons. If you believe that Taylor and Carter have the same value as Laporta, Weglarz and Crowe, then you are vastly overrating our prospects, or are not giving other teams prospects their due. Carter and Taylor are no sure things, but I would take them over those three in a heartbeat.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby artgold » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:46 pm

I don't want to be the leader of the Carter and Taylor bandwagon, I think they are more likely to fizzle out than any other outcome.

However, I do think both have a remote chance of being decent major league players, and would be worth acquiring if dealing little for these guys. At this point the A's have gone from having nothing to having excess in terms of the positions Carter and Taylor play, so dealing with them might be a possibility.

Carter has huge power, he has repeatedly demonstrated that ability. However, he can't seem to figure out how to hit breaking balls, and I'm not sure that won't be death to his career. Taylor actually has pretty good contact and decent batting eye, his power seems to be a bit inconsistent though, but I'd take a chance on him.

Between the two, I think Taylor has the better shot of becoming something worthwhile.

I have to tell you though, in running my current comps on Taylor he only comes up as an Eric Byrnes, Wes Chamberlain or Ben Francisco type of hitter.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ClevelandBlues » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:25 pm

To me, aquiring either would be more about 2013 than 2012. Hafner, Kotchman and Sizemore are free agents and will need replaced. Assuming Brantley switches to center, then we have to fill 1b/dh/lf. We need to find internal successors in case they leave. We could try and find their replacements in free agency, but we could end up in another Beltran/Pena situation where we offer them the right money and they stil turn us down. Right now are options are

Canzler-interesting bat, could be Hafner's replacement
Cunningham-good bat in the minors, out of options
Weglarz-good power and walk rate, health problems
Neal-not sure what to make of him
Laporta-hopefully he can put it back together next year
Mills-good bounceback year, can't hit lefties
Goedert-good power, needs to work on the rest of his game

In my opinion, adding another guy to the mix wouldn't be a bad idea. One or two of them might break out this year, but we may need more than that. Having all of those guys in the same lineup would make for some ugly defense at Columbus, but we really need to be auditioning some bats.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:11 am

ClevelandBlues wrote:To me, aquiring either would be more about 2013 than 2012. Hafner, Kotchman and Sizemore are free agents and will need replaced. Assuming Brantley switches to center, then we have to fill 1b/dh/lf. We need to find internal successors in case they leave. We could try and find their replacements in free agency, but we could end up in another Beltran/Pena situation where we offer them the right money and they stil turn us down. Right now are options are

Canzler-interesting bat, could be Hafner's replacement
Cunningham-good bat in the minors, out of options
Weglarz-good power and walk rate, health problems
Neal-not sure what to make of him
Laporta-hopefully he can put it back together next year
Mills-good bounceback year, can't hit lefties
Goedert-good power, needs to work on the rest of his game

In my opinion, adding another guy to the mix wouldn't be a bad idea. One or two of them might break out this year, but we may need more than that. Having all of those guys in the same lineup would make for some ugly defense at Columbus, but we really need to be auditioning some bats.


Which is the exact point of the posting.. If these two guys were proven or can't miss.. they wouldn't be part of a realistic discussion. They have developmental challenges that may or may not be overcome. The idea is, with the correct scouting & player personnel development, either or both may realize their potential. If it's at Columbus with a mid/late season call up.. even better.. Having depth of this nature can't hurt...

btw.. Spring training should give a pretty good insight into seeing if Matt LaPorta has put it back together for THIS year.. i.e. September of 2011 may not have been a fluke/irrelevant month ...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:27 am

This morning on 680 The Fan here in Atlanta, Leo Mazone added the Indians to his "Bricks List" meaning teams that have no chance. Basically, they liked the Lowe acquisition but laughed at the Kotchman addition. I disagree with Mazone on the Indians have no chance but our hopes really come down to health and a few guys stepping up like Kip, Chiz, Santana and Brantley and Sizemore re-igniting his career. I know most Braves fans tease me about both of those guys but I agree with Mazone on the acquisations (I like the Lowe and hate the Kotchman deals) but I'll temper the Lowe acquisition as saying he needs to be yanked the first sign of trouble because his games last year deteriorated very quickly last year. I think neither deal is great.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:35 am

daingean wrote:This morning on 680 The Fan here in Atlanta, Leo Mazone added the Indians to his "Bricks List" meaning teams that have no chance. Basically, they liked the Lowe acquisition but laughed at the Kotchman addition. I disagree with Mazone on the Indians have no chance but our hopes really come down to health and a few guys stepping up like Kip, Chiz, Santana and Brantley and Sizemore re-igniting his career. I know most Braves fans tease me about both of those guys but I agree with Mazone on the acquisations (I like the Lowe and hate the Kotchman deals) but I'll temper the Lowe acquisition as saying he needs to be yanked the first sign of trouble because his games last year deteriorated very quickly last year. I think neither deal is great.

Leo should stick to coaching pitchers. Neither one of those deals cost much, anything above some pretty low(e) expectations would be a big plus. I have more faith than you do in Kotchman as he's in his prime & less than you do in Lowe as he's just getting older. The good news about Lowe is that non power pitchers seem to be able to get by on guile & experience as they age.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:08 am

Rocky55 wrote:
daingean wrote:This morning on 680 The Fan here in Atlanta, Leo Mazone added the Indians to his "Bricks List" meaning teams that have no chance. Basically, they liked the Lowe acquisition but laughed at the Kotchman addition. I disagree with Mazone on the Indians have no chance but our hopes really come down to health and a few guys stepping up like Kip, Chiz, Santana and Brantley and Sizemore re-igniting his career. I know most Braves fans tease me about both of those guys but I agree with Mazone on the acquisations (I like the Lowe and hate the Kotchman deals) but I'll temper the Lowe acquisition as saying he needs to be yanked the first sign of trouble because his games last year deteriorated very quickly last year. I think neither deal is great.

Leo should stick to coaching pitchers. Neither one of those deals cost much, anything above some pretty low(e) expectations would be a big plus. I have more faith than you do in Kotchman as he's in his prime & less than you do in Lowe as he's just getting older. The good news about Lowe is that non power pitchers seem to be able to get by on guile & experience as they age.


Leo is seldom negative about players....one of the other guys is though....I think in general Kotchman is not viewed as much of a player from his year + here in the ATL (which is where I formed my opinion of him.)
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:53 am

Kotchman's contribution to run production while playing at a run production position is why he's not respected. It's part of the reason why he's moved from team to team.. and why he'll continue to move.. 1B's are supposed to be power hitting run producers. He's not..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby daingean » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:05 pm

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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ClevelandBlues » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm

Apparently the Tigers are looking to switch Inge to second base, a position he has never played before. With Fielder at first, Cabrera at third and Peralta at short, I am struggling to think of a worse defensive infield in baseball, if not baseball history. I think this will be their Achilles' heel this season. A lot of routine grounders are going to turn into through the gap singles.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:08 pm



If you have a chance to go to some of the Yankee blog/forum sites.. you would have thought they just cashed in a winning lottery ticket.. The Pirates Neil Huntington completely took advantage of the Yankees and this contrived "get rid of AJ Burnett" situation.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:35 pm

ClevelandBlues wrote:Apparently the Tigers are looking to switch Inge to second base, a position he has never played before. With Fielder at first, Cabrera at third and Peralta at short, I am struggling to think of a worse defensive infield in baseball, if not baseball history. I think this will be their Achilles' heel this season. A lot of routine grounders are going to turn into through the gap singles.

The Tigers pitching staff also had the 3rd highest ground ball rate in the American League last year.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:14 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
artgold wrote:I kind of agree with you GS, now that the A's have loaded up on OF'ers I'd be willing to make a deal for Carter and/or Taylor too, but only if the price was right.

I wouldn't deal much for them, how about LaPorta?

Bust for bust deal.
I D K about labeling these players as "busts" (it has such a negative connotation).. I'd probably categorize these players as disappointment for disappointment, but moving into bust territory. Kind of a hedge or picking at nits type of statement...

W/R to the A's situation: The thought process skewed in a completely different direction for LaPorta only because the A's have about six guys who can play 1B thereby making the need for another 1B (LaPorta, in this scenario) pretty much unnecessary. The A's need catching, relief pitching, 3B and ML ready starting pitching at the major league level (in any order). The Indians have all four of those spots (if you include Jason Donald as a 3B) as strengths/excesses. So, the fit appears to be there, but only if the risk taking front office (see Ubaldo) wins out over the risk averse front office..

W/R to trading LaPorta, the idea that has stuck in my mind was similar to the A's situation, but, varied dependent upon the Pirates making the much ballyhoo'ed trade with the Yankees. If the Pirates and Yankees do take the plunge and trade AJ Burnett to the Pirates for Garret Jones, Matt LaPorta to the Pirates could be an inexpensive substitute. Trading Matt LaPorta along with a ML ready SP (tomlin/gomez/huff/mcallister/et al) could provide the Indians with an opportunity to acquire a player such as Jose Tabata or, even a prospect like Starling Marte, whichever guy the Indians feel is a better fit. The Pirates haven't been a good trading partner with the Indians over the years, but, there's always a chance. Someone, in an earlier posting mentioned in a trade scenario where the Pirates send Stetson Allie to the Indians. Allie, being a local boy and having had interest shown by the Indians in the past could make some sense. While it might be a 'feel good' / the prodigal son returns home story, it's doubtful the Pirates would give up on Stetson Allie this early in his development. Imho, this would be a GOOD THING for the Indians (read: I'm really not sure Allie will be anything more than a hard thrower).

BTW...Only one of the two trades would happen.. :dunno:


Either you are overestimating LaPorta or underestimating the Pirates. While LaPorta to Pittsburgh is an intriguing idea - lets keep in mind Tabata is scheduled to be the Pirates starting RF and leadoff hitter, and Marte and Allie are two of their top prospects. i doubt either of the three are available, but if they are its going to take more than LaPorta to bring them to Cleveland.

Now if you want to talk a more realistic idea - LaPorta for Alvarez might work. While Alvarez is younger and i doubt the Pirates want to give up on him either at this point, last year was a lost year for him & if this year turns out the same he could easily be available in the right deal.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:59 am

ACrank said: Either you are overestimating LaPorta or underestimating the Pirates. While LaPorta to Pittsburgh is an intriguing idea - lets keep in mind Tabata is scheduled to be the Pirates starting RF and leadoff hitter, and Marte and Allie are two of their top prospects. i doubt either of the three are available, but if they are its going to take more than LaPorta to bring them to Cleveland.

Now if you want to talk a more realistic idea - LaPorta for Alvarez might work. While Alvarez is younger and i doubt the Pirates want to give up on him either at this point, last year was a lost year for him & if this year turns out the same he could easily be available in the right deal


While a LaPorta for Tabata or Allie would be a no brainer trade from the Indians perspective, the trade scenario presented with the Pirates included one of four ML ready SP's (Tomlin/Huff/McAllister/Gomez). Taking away half or more than half of the trade presented makes the comment about "over estimating" or "under estimating" inaccurate.

A decent year and a very poor year makes the opinion about Pedro Alvarez and the notion of him being a more realistic trade target somewhat cloudy. Alvarez is 25 & LH'd. LaPorta is 27 & RH'd. Neither are defensive stalwarts. Neither run very well. Neither have versatility that could benefit the club: Alvarez is able to play 3B and possibly 1B; Laporta is to play 1B and possibly LF. A hope for a "change of scenery" improvement might be possible, but is usually a desperate kind of hope. At this time, it would probably be better to stay with LaPorta, but only because he's right handed and he's the devil we know.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Prosecutor » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:49 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:
ClevelandBlues wrote:Apparently the Tigers are looking to switch Inge to second base, a position he has never played before. With Fielder at first, Cabrera at third and Peralta at short, I am struggling to think of a worse defensive infield in baseball, if not baseball history. I think this will be their Achilles' heel this season. A lot of routine grounders are going to turn into through the gap singles.

The Tigers pitching staff also had the 3rd highest ground ball rate in the American League last year.


I was thinking the same thing about the Tiger infield. But while opponents are hitting ground balls through that infield, Cabrera, Fielder, and Peralta will be hitting balls over the fence.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of teams bunting for base hits on the Tigers, both to 3rd and 1st. Especially when Verlander is pitching. Not much point in swinging.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:06 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
ACrank said: Either you are overestimating LaPorta or underestimating the Pirates. While LaPorta to Pittsburgh is an intriguing idea - lets keep in mind Tabata is scheduled to be the Pirates starting RF and leadoff hitter, and Marte and Allie are two of their top prospects. i doubt either of the three are available, but if they are its going to take more than LaPorta to bring them to Cleveland.

Now if you want to talk a more realistic idea - LaPorta for Alvarez might work. While Alvarez is younger and i doubt the Pirates want to give up on him either at this point, last year was a lost year for him & if this year turns out the same he could easily be available in the right deal


While a LaPorta for Tabata or Allie would be a no brainer trade from the Indians perspective, the trade scenario presented with the Pirates included one of four ML ready SP's (Tomlin/Huff/McAllister/Gomez). Taking away half or more than half of the trade presented makes the comment about "over estimating" or "under estimating" inaccurate.

A decent year and a very poor year makes the opinion about Pedro Alvarez and the notion of him being a more realistic trade target somewhat cloudy. Alvarez is 25 & LH'd. LaPorta is 27 & RH'd. Neither are defensive stalwarts. Neither run very well. Neither have versatility that could benefit the club: Alvarez is able to play 3B and possibly 1B; Laporta is to play 1B and possibly LF. A hope for a "change of scenery" improvement might be possible, but is usually a desperate kind of hope. At this time, it would probably be better to stay with LaPorta, but only because he's right handed and he's the devil we know.


i'll admit i didn't see the inclusion of the pitcher, but since the Pirates just got Burnett i doubt they would be wanting another pitcher.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:16 am

ACrank wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ACrank said: Either you are overestimating LaPorta or underestimating the Pirates. While LaPorta to Pittsburgh is an intriguing idea - lets keep in mind Tabata is scheduled to be the Pirates starting RF and leadoff hitter, and Marte and Allie are two of their top prospects. i doubt either of the three are available, but if they are its going to take more than LaPorta to bring them to Cleveland.

Now if you want to talk a more realistic idea - LaPorta for Alvarez might work. While Alvarez is younger and i doubt the Pirates want to give up on him either at this point, last year was a lost year for him & if this year turns out the same he could easily be available in the right deal


While a LaPorta for Tabata or Allie would be a no brainer trade from the Indians perspective, the trade scenario presented with the Pirates included one of four ML ready SP's (Tomlin/Huff/McAllister/Gomez). Taking away half or more than half of the trade presented makes the comment about "over estimating" or "under estimating" inaccurate.

A decent year and a very poor year makes the opinion about Pedro Alvarez and the notion of him being a more realistic trade target somewhat cloudy. Alvarez is 25 & LH'd. LaPorta is 27 & RH'd. Neither are defensive stalwarts. Neither run very well. Neither have versatility that could benefit the club: Alvarez is able to play 3B and possibly 1B; Laporta is to play 1B and possibly LF. A hope for a "change of scenery" improvement might be possible, but is usually a desperate kind of hope. At this time, it would probably be better to stay with LaPorta, but only because he's right handed and he's the devil we know.


i'll admit i didn't see the inclusion of the pitcher, but since the Pirates just got Burnett i doubt they would be wanting another pitcher.
Just when you think you have enough pitching.. that's when it's time to go get more.. The strength of the Pirates minor league system appears to be young outfielders and even younger starting / relief pitchers. The parent club goes into the 2012 season with at least two question marks (Kevin Correia, performance & Erik Bedard, health) in their projected starting five. With the addition of AJ Burnett, one of those question marks may be filled. The Pirates NRI's w/ ST invites don't inspire a lot of confidence that they'll find a serviceable fourth or fifth starter. Their Indianapolis squad (AAA) doesn't appear to have anyone that would be considered a better option than someone like Jo Jo Reyes. In short, the Pirates appear to need at least one, perhaps more SP candidates that are ML ready to fill the gap until one of their young stud SP's (Taillon, Cole, Locke & Wilson) are ready to pitch at the ML level. The Pirates, with the current composition of their starting pitching staff.. are in for a loooonnnggg season...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:13 pm

Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:39 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:01 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral


I admit it's a longshot at best. Having Kotchman, Hafner, and Trumbo on one roster doesn't give you much flexibility. (Although Trumbo can play OF). I think Kotchman had his career year last season, and is a one-year stop gap. Just because we have him shouldn't mean we can't still pursue a bat.
All I know is that Trumbo bats RH and hit 29 HR in his rookie season. He's far from perfect, but he's far from a finished product either. The Indians organization is so lacking in power hitting bats, I would take him even if we had to put him in Columbus for a couple of months.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:43 pm

The Angels may be looking.. but if Abreu (or even Vernon Wells) is involved.. it's nothing more than being stuck with another over paid aging player where they're trying to dump salary.. Hopefully, the Indians don't get involved with any of these old timers..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Edible14 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:56 am

GeronimoSon wrote:The Angels may be looking.. but if Abreu (or even Vernon Wells) is involved.. it's nothing more than being stuck with another over paid aging player where they're trying to dump salary.. Hopefully, the Indians don't get involved with any of these old timers..


I don't think it's a salary dump for them, they just don't really have the room in that outfield for Trout, Hunter, Wells, Abreu,and Bourjous. They have all that TV money coming in, after all. If the Angels are willing to eat a big chunk of his salary, I think I'd consider Abreu to be a cost-effective upgrade over Cunningham. If the cost was just Raffy Perez, I'd probably do it (relievers aren't worth much, Raffy is going to be expensive next year, and Hagadone would be just fine as a replacement). Vernon, and his .248 OBP, would be a no.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:00 am

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The Angels may be looking.. but if Abreu (or even Vernon Wells) is involved.. it's nothing more than being stuck with another over paid aging player where they're trying to dump salary.. Hopefully, the Indians don't get involved with any of these old timers..


I don't think it's a salary dump for them, they just don't really have the room in that outfield for Trout, Hunter, Wells, Abreu,and Bourjous. They have all that TV money coming in, after all. If the Angels are willing to eat a big chunk of his salary, I think I'd consider Abreu to be a cost-effective upgrade over Cunningham. If the cost was just Raffy Perez, I'd probably do it (relievers aren't worth much, Raffy is going to be expensive next year, and Hagadone would be just fine as a replacement). Vernon, and his .248 OBP, would be a no.


There was a small 'to-do' reported about Abreu and his playing time.. TBH.. Mike Scioscia has always relied on vets and has given them more PT than the kids, almost to the point of frustrating some fan (who want to see what Hank Conger or Mike Trout can do..) The Angels hype machine has done almost too good of a job in defining the future with some of their prospects...

Spillbourghs would be the comp to Abreu.. Cunningham/Pie/Spillbourghs need to start tuning it up soon. It looks like Shelly is making the decision on LF very easy (in his favor) on Manny in the early going of ST...

Vernon Wells and almost all of his salary?.. yeah.. probably still no..

IDK if Raffy Perez would be a guy that the Indians should trade.. As of now, he's having some minor / early camp shoulder issues, so, the Indians would want to show he's healthy and good to go.. With as many RH SP's as the Indians are going to trot out to the mound, having that extra lefty would make the bullpen balance a bit better..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:22 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral


Sweet Jesus. This is almost as bad as your Jack Hannahan comments from last spring. While Trumbo is not a GG caliber 1B in the way Hannahan is at 3B, Trumbo is an above average defensive 1B and has been throughout his professional career. Duncan couldn't hold his jockstrap defensively there. A big reason the Angels think he can play 3B is because scouts like his defense at 1B. Even his OF defense wasn't too bad in the minors. Personally wouldn't want him at 3B though (think he's too big and his range won't be that great), but at 1B he's very solid. Trumbo >>> Duncan defensively, not even a debate. And before you jump and say that I'm looking at UZR only, it's every defensive stat that likes Trumbo, plus he passes the eyeball test easily when you watch him over there at 1B.


Agree completely though on not trading Hags for him. That OBP is just ugly and agree, misses a lot of pitches. A better defensive version of LaPorta in a way. Give LaPorta 550 at-bats and he likely could hit 25 HRs simply by hitting mistakes.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The Angels may be looking.. but if Abreu (or even Vernon Wells) is involved.. it's nothing more than being stuck with another over paid aging player where they're trying to dump salary.. Hopefully, the Indians don't get involved with any of these old timers..


I don't think it's a salary dump for them, they just don't really have the room in that outfield for Trout, Hunter, Wells, Abreu,and Bourjous. They have all that TV money coming in, after all. If the Angels are willing to eat a big chunk of his salary, I think I'd consider Abreu to be a cost-effective upgrade over Cunningham. If the cost was just Raffy Perez, I'd probably do it (relievers aren't worth much, Raffy is going to be expensive next year, and Hagadone would be just fine as a replacement). Vernon, and his .248 OBP, would be a no.


Gotta disagree strongly here. Did you miss what the Rangers gave up to get a Mike Adams? Relievers if anything are vastly overvalued in baseball right now. While obviously Adams is a better arm than Raffy, saying relievers as a whole aren't worth much seems pretty inaccurate to me. I wouldn't trade Raffy for Abreau personally even if they ate all of his salary. Why not just try and sign a guy like Damon and keep the bullpen together? I'd rather overpay for Damon than lose a valuable bullpen arm in Raffy.

Only way I'd move Raffy (or Sipp/Hags) to the Angels is if a guy like Bourjos is involved (which seems extremely unlikely). Effective relievers can be very solid trade chips as we've seen lately.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral


Sweet Jesus. This is almost as bad as your Jack Hannahan comments from last spring. While Trumbo is not a GG caliber 1B in the way Hannahan is at 3B, Trumbo is an above average defensive 1B and has been throughout his professional career. Duncan couldn't hold his jockstrap defensively there. A big reason the Angels think he can play 3B is because scouts like his defense at 1B. Even his OF defense wasn't too bad in the minors. Personally wouldn't want him at 3B though (think he's too big and his range won't be that great), but at 1B he's very solid. Trumbo >>> Duncan defensively, not even a debate. And before you jump and say that I'm looking at UZR only, it's every defensive stat that likes Trumbo, plus he passes the eyeball test easily when you watch him over there at 1B.


Agree completely though on not trading Hags for him. That OBP is just ugly and agree, misses a lot of pitches. A better defensive version of LaPorta in a way. Give LaPorta 550 at-bats and he likely could hit 25 HRs simply by hitting mistakes.

Sorry Hermie. Stick with your stats. Evaluating player abilities from watching them is not a strong point. You have not seen him in all these positions at the ML level live as much as I have. Read what I write Hermie, not what you think I wrote! I said 1B was not open this year, not that he was especially bad. I said Duncan is an overall better defender and I stand by that since he is so superior in the OF to Trumbo and I stand by that assessment. This habit of your is very tiresome. I recognize this blog is intended for posters with educational levels but if you cannot read English and comprehend the language, there might be more suitable uses for your time since my post was quite clear. :twisted :lol
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:02 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral


Sweet Jesus. This is almost as bad as your Jack Hannahan comments from last spring. While Trumbo is not a GG caliber 1B in the way Hannahan is at 3B, Trumbo is an above average defensive 1B and has been throughout his professional career. Duncan couldn't hold his jockstrap defensively there. A big reason the Angels think he can play 3B is because scouts like his defense at 1B. Even his OF defense wasn't too bad in the minors. Personally wouldn't want him at 3B though (think he's too big and his range won't be that great), but at 1B he's very solid. Trumbo >>> Duncan defensively, not even a debate. And before you jump and say that I'm looking at UZR only, it's every defensive stat that likes Trumbo, plus he passes the eyeball test easily when you watch him over there at 1B.


Agree completely though on not trading Hags for him. That OBP is just ugly and agree, misses a lot of pitches. A better defensive version of LaPorta in a way. Give LaPorta 550 at-bats and he likely could hit 25 HRs simply by hitting mistakes.

Sorry Hermie. Stick with your stats. Evaluating player abilities from watching them is not a strong point. You have not seen him in all these positions at the ML level live as much as I have. Read what I write Hermie, not what you think I wrote! I said 1B was not open this year, not that he was especially bad. I said Duncan is an overall better defender and I stand by that since he is so superior in the OF to Trumbo and I stand by that assessment. This habit of your is very tiresome. I recognize this blog is intended for posters with educational levels but if you cannot read English and comprehend the language, there might be more suitable uses for your time since my post was quite clear. :twisted :lol


Yeah, such a clear post....never once in your original post did you mention the OF with regards to Duncan or Trumbo, nor was the OF mentioned in the post you were quoting. You did kind of hint at it but never once mentioned it. But o well.

and wow, i literally just fell out of my chair. Evaluating player abilities from watching them is not MY strong point?!?! Says the guy who claimed Hannahan looked bad defensively at 3B last spring. You are the LAST person who can call me out on watching a players ability. Mock me if you want, but I tend to be right on with a players defense (see Brantley and Cabrera as prime examples). I will never claim to be great evaluating a player, but c'mon on, you of all people are calling me out? wow...

I also find it strange that you say that I haven't seen Trumbo at all these positions live in the MLs as much as you....since Trumbo has exactly ONE game in LF at the ML level. ONE. Oh, and it was a whopping 2 innings...assuming you even saw those 2 innings,which were in Texas. In the minors? yeah, also only 1 game in LF. Started only 1 game in his ML career in the OF too (in 2010, in RF). Rest were late game replacements this past year. So if you were really talking about their Duncan's defense vs Trumbo's defense at the position they'd play in Cleveland (sure didn't sound like it in your post but whatever)....would love to know how you're basing it off 2 innings worth of you "watching" Trumbo "live" out there. You're either really good, or more likely, full of it.

Fair enough if you want to stand by your assessment that Duncan is "so superior" to Trumbo in the OF. You are the first and only person I've heard/seen say that, but then again you're still the only person I've ever seen say Hannahan looked bad at 3B defenisvely so not too surprised.

Trumbo's arm alone makes him as "good" an OFer as Duncan (feels wrong using the word good in a sentence about Duncan's defense in LF). Only reason Trumbo isn't moving out there this year is the logjam the Angels have. Talked to several people who are hoping to see Trumbo, Bourjos, and Trout as the OF of the future in LA (if Trumbo's plate discipline improves that is). Trumbo's range is no worse than Duncan's in the OF (slightly better really) and his arm is much better...at least from what I've seen (and others) in RF. Admit, never seen him play LF (even on TV)....as probably most haven't. Does turn the wrong way at times, but that's to be expected from a guy with less than 50 pro games in the OF in his career. And did I mention we're comparing him to Shelley Duncan? I think you forgot how bad he looked out there this past year, despite having played the position for years, and how bad he actually is in the OF.

I guess I apologize for jumping on you about their defense at 1B (though was referring to defense everywhere). Despite what you say, it wasn't clear what position you were referring too, sounded like a general statement about Duncan vs Trumbo defensively. And again, if that's really how you feel...fine I guess. Avoiding Trumbo has more to do with his bat than defense. Power is nice, but if that falters at all, he's a replacement player. I actually think Duncan could have a better offensive year than Trumbo this year. i'd still take Trumbo's defense (even in the OF) though.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Word is the Angels are looking for a left-handed RP.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/a ... iever.html

They would like to trade Abreu. Good luck with that. But I wonder. Would they be interested in people like RPerez, TSipp, Hermann, or Hagadone in exchange for Mark Trumbo? (Yes, I've heard he had a horrible OBP his rookie year. But the other RH power hitter in the Indians organization is,,,,,?)

Not knocking the idea Ghost but won't the Indians have the same problem with Trumbo as the Angels? Where do you really play this guy except DH? I doubt if 1B, 3B and DH are open this year. A lot of pitches miss his bat and his defense is pretty bad. Duncan is probably a GG candidate by comparison. I agree Abreu does not make much sense for the Tribe even if the Angels eat his salary. Personally, I would not trade Hagadone for him in any event but that is just me. :neutral


Sweet Jesus. This is almost as bad as your Jack Hannahan comments from last spring. While Trumbo is not a GG caliber 1B in the way Hannahan is at 3B, Trumbo is an above average defensive 1B and has been throughout his professional career. Duncan couldn't hold his jockstrap defensively there. A big reason the Angels think he can play 3B is because scouts like his defense at 1B. Even his OF defense wasn't too bad in the minors. Personally wouldn't want him at 3B though (think he's too big and his range won't be that great), but at 1B he's very solid. Trumbo >>> Duncan defensively, not even a debate. And before you jump and say that I'm looking at UZR only, it's every defensive stat that likes Trumbo, plus he passes the eyeball test easily when you watch him over there at 1B.


Agree completely though on not trading Hags for him. That OBP is just ugly and agree, misses a lot of pitches. A better defensive version of LaPorta in a way. Give LaPorta 550 at-bats and he likely could hit 25 HRs simply by hitting mistakes.

Sorry Hermie. Stick with your stats. Evaluating player abilities from watching them is not a strong point. You have not seen him in all these positions at the ML level live as much as I have. Read what I write Hermie, not what you think I wrote! I said 1B was not open this year, not that he was especially bad. I said Duncan is an overall better defender and I stand by that since he is so superior in the OF to Trumbo and I stand by that assessment. This habit of your is very tiresome. I recognize this blog is intended for posters with educational levels but if you cannot read English and comprehend the language, there might be more suitable uses for your time since my post was quite clear. :twisted :lol


Yeah, such a clear post....never once in your original post did you mention the OF with regards to Duncan or Trumbo, nor was the OF mentioned in the post you were quoting. You did kind of hint at it but never once mentioned it. But o well.

and wow, i literally just fell out of my chair. Evaluating player abilities from watching them is not MY strong point?!?! Says the guy who claimed Hannahan looked bad defensively at 3B last spring. You are the LAST person who can call me out on watching a players ability. Mock me if you want, but I tend to be right on with a players defense (see Brantley and Cabrera as prime examples). I will never claim to be great evaluating a player, but c'mon on, you of all people are calling me out? wow...

I also find it strange that you say that I haven't seen Trumbo at all these positions live in the MLs as much as you....since Trumbo has exactly ONE game in LF at the ML level. ONE. Oh, and it was a whopping 2 innings...assuming you even saw those 2 innings,which were in Texas. In the minors? yeah, also only 1 game in LF. Started only 1 game in his ML career in the OF too (in 2010, in RF). Rest were late game replacements this past year. So if you were really talking about their Duncan's defense vs Trumbo's defense at the position they'd play in Cleveland (sure didn't sound like it in your post but whatever)....would love to know how you're basing it off 2 innings worth of you "watching" Trumbo "live" out there. You're either really good, or more likely, full of it.

Fair enough if you want to stand by your assessment that Duncan is "so superior" to Trumbo in the OF. You are the first and only person I've heard/seen say that, but then again you're still the only person I've ever seen say Hannahan looked bad at 3B defenisvely so not too surprised.

Trumbo's arm alone makes him as "good" an OFer as Duncan (feels wrong using the word good in a sentence about Duncan's defense in LF). Only reason Trumbo isn't moving out there this year is the logjam the Angels have. Talked to several people who are hoping to see Trumbo, Bourjos, and Trout as the OF of the future in LA (if Trumbo's plate discipline improves that is). Trumbo's range is no worse than Duncan's in the OF (slightly better really) and his arm is much better...at least from what I've seen (and others) in RF. Admit, never seen him play LF (even on TV)....as probably most haven't. Does turn the wrong way at times, but that's to be expected from a guy with less than 50 pro games in the OF in his career. And did I mention we're comparing him to Shelley Duncan? I think you forgot how bad he looked out there this past year, despite having played the position for years, and how bad he actually is in the OF.

I guess I apologize for jumping on you about their defense at 1B (though was referring to defense everywhere). Despite what you say, it wasn't clear what position you were referring too, sounded like a general statement about Duncan vs Trumbo defensively. And again, if that's really how you feel...fine I guess. Avoiding Trumbo has more to do with his bat than defense. Power is nice, but if that falters at all, he's a replacement player. I actually think Duncan could have a better offensive year than Trumbo this year. i'd still take Trumbo's defense (even in the OF) though.

Poor Hermie! You can go on and on about Hannahan but my only comment negatively about his defense came early in ST last year and he was really bad in that game. But it was one game and he had plenty of poor games but many more good ones. He is a good defensive 3B but never has been a GG or even close to my knowledge like you tell us (certainly not Harrah or Williams). I watch a lot of Angel games (free tickets and 8$ round trip along the ocean does that) and I never seen him play LF in an ML game, only RF. Watched Duncan play RF as well. Would rather have Duncan because he really puts in the effort to overcome his physical limitations. Trumbo, a rookie, did not show me that and quit on balls that Duncan would try for. Neither is particularly athletic in the OF but Duncan's experience and effort cause him to get to more balls quicker IMO. Your apology is greatfully accepted but had an unappreciated backhand tone. :rolleyes
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:03 pm

Women. You can't live without them...and they can't pee standing up.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:02 am

I don't get it.. Shelly Duncan's defense on the 20-80 scale is about a 30.. 35 on a good day & it doesn't matter where he plays in the field.. Like having a face for radio, Shelly Duncan's best defensive position is DH.... Trumbo, on the other hand is a lot younger, has decent hands, and a pretty strong / accurate arm, but not much in the way of range... Third base, which relies more on reaction (save for a bunt or two here and there) suits him well. Same with First Base, but that eliminates his above average arm..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:22 am

The Rangers also appear to be in the market for a left handed reliever.. The Rangers have two young OF'er currently battling for the opening day assignment in CF, Craig Gentry and Julio Bourbon. Bourbon is a lefty with a tremendous ability to put the bat on the ball, Gentry is a righty with speed to burn. Both would be welcome additions to our wigwam if the Rangers had an interest in one of the Indians LHRP's...
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:17 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Women. You can't live without them...and they can't pee standing up.


ha, touche. I will admit that was some pretty bad bitching back and forth on our parts, for that I apologize too. Would be careful if I were you though Tony, as last time someone called ink a woman he lashed out with some crazy gay attack/tirade...


For the sake of the board I'll try and lay off ink. Won't try and not respond if I disagree, even if he posts things like Hanny has never been a GG caliber 3B. Will man up here, hoping ink will do the same. The peace pipe is out.
Last edited by Hermie13 on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:19 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The Rangers also appear to be in the market for a left handed reliever.. The Rangers have two young OF'er currently battling for the opening day assignment in CF, Craig Gentry and Julio Bourbon. Bourbon is a lefty with a tremendous ability to put the bat on the ball, Gentry is a righty with speed to burn. Both would be welcome additions to our wigwam if the Rangers had an interest in one of the Indians LHRP's...


Considering what the Rangers gave up for relievers last year; they're definitely a team get on the phone about dealing a lefty. Most likely nothing comes of it but can't hurt to check-in.


Would have to be pretty much blown away to deal a lefty reliever though IMO. With the Tigers losing Martinez (and Ordonez) and adding Fielder....team could have some vulnerability against lefties. Would be nice having 3 late in a game to use (if Hags makes the club).
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:40 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:Women. You can't live without them...and they can't pee standing up.


ha, touche. I will admit that was some pretty bad bitching back and forth on our parts, for that I apologize too. Would be careful if I were you though Tony, as last time someone called ink a woman he lashed out with some crazy gay attack/tirade...


For the sake of the board I'll try and lay off ink. Won't try and not respond if I disagree, even if he posts things like Hanny has never been a GG caliber 3B. Will man up here, hoping ink will do the same. The peace pipe is out.

Per Hermie, just cannot do without trying to have the last word even when purportedly trying "for the sake of the board" to "man up" for peace. I just will do with you like I do with others and not even read your posts. Please do not comment on mine! :lol
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby Edible14 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:32 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The Angels may be looking.. but if Abreu (or even Vernon Wells) is involved.. it's nothing more than being stuck with another over paid aging player where they're trying to dump salary.. Hopefully, the Indians don't get involved with any of these old timers..


I don't think it's a salary dump for them, they just don't really have the room in that outfield for Trout, Hunter, Wells, Abreu,and Bourjous. They have all that TV money coming in, after all. If the Angels are willing to eat a big chunk of his salary, I think I'd consider Abreu to be a cost-effective upgrade over Cunningham. If the cost was just Raffy Perez, I'd probably do it (relievers aren't worth much, Raffy is going to be expensive next year, and Hagadone would be just fine as a replacement). Vernon, and his .248 OBP, would be a no.


Gotta disagree strongly here. Did you miss what the Rangers gave up to get a Mike Adams? Relievers if anything are vastly overvalued in baseball right now. While obviously Adams is a better arm than Raffy, saying relievers as a whole aren't worth much seems pretty inaccurate to me. I wouldn't trade Raffy for Abreau personally even if they ate all of his salary. Why not just try and sign a guy like Damon and keep the bullpen together? I'd rather overpay for Damon than lose a valuable bullpen arm in Raffy.

Only way I'd move Raffy (or Sipp/Hags) to the Angels is if a guy like Bourjos is involved (which seems extremely unlikely). Effective relievers can be very solid trade chips as we've seen lately.


Perhaps, but I think you'll only get that kind of trade for Raffy if he has a good season and we're dealing at the deadline, when demand would be highest. Personally, I think Raffy is inconsistent and is more than capable of having a horrid season this year, destroying all of his value, so I'm not really holding out hope for him to fetch something good at the deadline.
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:26 am

Well.. it looks like the Phillies may be in trouble with second baseman Chase Utley who is experiencing another episode of knee problems. The Indians, with what looks like an excess of infielders capable of playing at the ML level (Kipnis, Donald, Lopez, Phelps) may be a good trade candidate for a trade. The Phillies really like Jason Donald while he was with them.. perhaps they're may still hold him in high regard..

Any ideas on what kind of a trade may be "brewing" here?.. if any? Certainly not Kipnis, but the other three listed could be in play?

With the way the Phillies are handling Dom Brown, he could be available for trade..
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Donald for Brown or Mayberry.

Yes please!
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Re: Player Acquisition Targets for 2012

Postby ACrank » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:48 pm

i can see Brown but not Mayberry (i was watching a Phillies/Pirates game over mlb and the Phillies announcers said Mayberry had made the team and Brown was on the bubble)
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