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Peralta to 3B?

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Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:07 am

With Peralta starting at 3B tonight, let the speculation begin of a move to 3B for him this offseason.

I maintain this is the position he should be at as it will allow him to put on a few good pounds and bulk up a little more to where he'll become a 30-35 HR a year guy. He'll never be flashy defensively, but this team would be better off with him at 3B with the increased production and Cabrera at his natural position of SS. That leaves 2B as the place they look to fill in the offseason, and I know the Indians really are interested in Brian Roberts. Dan Uggla is also said to be available, but I am unsure of the Indians interest in him.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby GhostofTedCox » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:17 pm

I think Brian Roberts would be a perfect fit for the Indians. I know the O's value Roberts highly, (and it's always difficult to complete a trade with them). I hope we wouldn't have to include Shoppach in a deal for Roberts, I'd rather include prospects, even Adam Miller.
I'd also like to talk to the O's about George Sherrill.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby jellis » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:09 pm

Consigliere wrote:With Peralta starting at 3B tonight, let the speculation begin of a move to 3B for him this offseason.

I maintain this is the position he should be at as it will allow him to put on a few good pounds and bulk up a little more to where he'll become a 30-35 HR a year guy. He'll never be flashy defensively, but this team would be better off with him at 3B with the increased production and Cabrera at his natural position of SS. That leaves 2B as the place they look to fill in the offseason, and I know the Indians really are interested in Brian Roberts. Dan Uggla is also said to be available, but I am unsure of the Indians interest in him.



Not sure how keen I would be on acquiring a soon to be 31 year old 2B whose man skill has always been speed especially when you consider the high price they have asked for him the past
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:20 am

Hey guys. We have the best all around SS in the AL and a terrific young 2B. Why throw those away for an expensive 2B leaving his prime or worst fielding 2B in baseball? Makes no sense to me. I think a solid 3B for the short term is in order. Garret Atkins is probably available and reasonably priced with Ian Stewart ML ready. I am thinking he could be had for Trevor Crowe and one of our LH pitchers. Makes more sense to save Shoppach for a top reliever or young MOR starter. If you are that convinced that we need a 2B, then I suggest spending the big bucks on Orlando Hudson who is a FA.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:33 am

Bottom line, Indians need to be open minded here. They need a 3B or 2B. Obviously, 3B is the greatest need, but if there is no fit in the offseason with a trade/FA, then they also need to be looking at who is available in a trade/FA at 2B.

The Indians have explored acquiring Atkins in the past, and he could be someone they look at in the offseason. His arbitration eligible and is under the Rockies control through the end of the 2010 season, so he would be a decent two year stop gap until hopefully someone shows they are ready to slide in at 3B from the minors (Hodges, Chisenhall or whoever).

And most definitely, the Indians need to save their big bullet in Shoppach for a trade that brings back a good starting pitcher or a dominant reliever.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:54 am

Whilst I agree they will keep their options open in terms of whether they acquire a 3Bman or 2Bman, I can't help but think they are going to push hard for a 2Bman.

There has been talk amongst fans and media about moving Peralta for years and it was always brushed aside by the front office. But, their position has changed dramatically and I have to believe, based on what I've read towards the end of the season, that their preference would be to move Jhonny to 3rd.

The market at 3B just isn't anything exciting. The only free agents are Blake and Crede; one will want 3 years, the other can't walk. Yes there's Atkins, but have you seen his career numbers away from Coors?? If you could get Ian Stewart I'd be interested, but Atkins scares me.

Meanwhile, 2B could be a spot easier to find a player. Orlando Hudson is a free agent and, coming off injury, might be the type of guy the Indians target. Add in the "always available" Brian Roberts (if you're prepared to give up some talent) and I think 2B is a position you can fill easier.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:08 am

Peralta Open To Move To 3B

Jhonny Peralta, coming off what he feels was his best season in the big leagues, will play winter ball for Aguilas in the Dominican Republic in December.

What position he plays, could depend on what moves Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro is able to make this winter.

Peralta has been the Indians shortstop for the past four years. He hit his 23rd and final homer of the season Sunday to tie Woodie Held for the franchise record for homers by a shortstop with 85.

All that might change.

"In my exit meeting with Mark Shapiro and Eric Wedge, they told me they're trying to find another infielder," Peralta said as he cleaned out his locker Monday morning at Progressive Field. "They don't know if it's going to be a second baseman or a third baseman."

If it's a second baseman, Asdrubal Cabrera is expected to move to short with Peralta moving to third.

"When I start playing winter ball, I'm going to call Mark to see where I should play," Peralta said.

Peralta played third base Friday against Chicago. It was his first game at third in the big leagues since Oct. 2, 2004. It was his first start there since Sept. 24, 2004.

"It felt a little strange at third base Friday," Peralta said. "A little different. The ball gets to you fast at a different angle. They hit two line drives at me that I didn't see too well."

Peralta has also played third in the minors.

"I feel fine with whatever decision they make," he said. "I feel better at shortstop. I'm more comfortable there, but if I move to third, I'll do it. It's their decision."

Some scouts feel if Peralta does move to third, it would help his offense because he wouldn't have to concentrate so much on defense.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:05 am

This should help the Peralta-to-3B crusade:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/ma ... 65037.html

Jhonny Peralta: Then And Now
By Chris Kline
October 17, 2007

When the high Class A Kinston roster was released to local writers in 2001, all three of them couldn’t believe their eyes.

"That’s not a misspelling you’re looking at under the infielders," then radio broadcaster Robert Portnoy said. "It actually is ‘Jhonny’ Peralta."

Though no one knew who Peralta was then--it was just his second year of pro ball after moving over to the States for the first time in 2000--they certainly know how he spells his first name now.

And so we look at how much Peralta’s game has changed from a rangy 16-year-old kid the Indians signed out of the Dominican Republic for $18,000 in 1999 to the postseason force he’s become for the Tribe this season:

"He was all over the place with his approach for almost his entire minor league career," a scout with a National League club said. "You’d watch him in (low Class A) Columbus (in 2000) or Kinston (in 2001) and see maybe five at-bats. In each at-bat he’d have a completely different approach. He’d have a huge front leg kick one time, he’d stay balanced on his back leg the next time. He’d have a lot of hand movement in his set-up one time and then be totally still the next. He had no idea who or what he was.

"Defensively, he was outstanding--especially in that year at Kinston. A lot of that had to do with Macier Izturis playing second base doing a great job of keeping him under control with his feeds on the double play--Izturis just kept him level-headed--whether that's a Latin thing or not I don't know. He had range, he had presence. His presence was more of a defender than as the power-hitting shortstop he is now.

"He showed flashes of having that ability--but I never would have thought he’d be doing what he’s doing now with the bat. No way. You saw it in Cleveland’s system with other Latin guys like (Willy) Taveras or (Rafael) Perez. You could see the big leagues in them in some shape or form.

"With Peralta, there was no shape. There was no form. He was a guy I thought might get to Triple-A and bounce back and forth for five years and be done. I never would have thought he’d be able to do what he’s done. And as much as his approach changed early, when he got consistent with it, he’d get killed by breaking balls out of the zone. He was a guy who would always take his bottom hand off and duck."

Since his time in the minors, Peralta established himself as a big leaguer over the last three seasons. But probably not as a shortstop, where he's drawn criticism from within the organization.

As he’s grown into his body, Peralta’s range has diminished considerably and with the emergence of Asdrubal Cabrera on the big league roster over Josh Barfield at second base, Peralta should be the future at third base with Cabrera shifting to his natural position at short as the club moves forward past this season.

"I don’t think he was ever an average defender (in the big leagues)," said another scout from an NL club. "And now, he’s a 40 (on the 20-80 scouting scale) for me. And it’s not just the range you question--it’s the hands, it’s his actions. There’s no doubt he has the arm strength, but it would play a lot better on the corner and he wouldn’t be as challenged as he is now.

"He hits for power to all fields. His defensive tools have diminished from what they used to be when he was younger, but that’s not a bad thing . . . not when you consider the bat. Any other time, you'd be worried. You move him over and you could have an average defender on the corner who can just mash. That’s who Jhonny Peralta is today.

"At the plate, he figured it out. He simplified things in his set-up and loads pretty easy with explosion through the zone. He still swings and misses too much. But this could be a guy that goes from 20 homers a year to 30 or 35 homers a year once he’s not concerned with having to prove he can stay in the middle of the diamond."
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby Uncle Rick » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:56 pm

Acc. to Pluto in his blog Peralta's past defensive problems at 3rd were partially from being switched from SS to 3rd depending on where Brandon Phillips was playing that day. If he knows he will be at 3rd every day Pluto expects him to not be a liability there. BTW, Pluto also seems high on Brian Roberts.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:14 am

I still think it is a big mistake guys. He might be the top offensive SS in baseball, a position where he is reasonably competent defensively, especially against AL standards. And we expect to move to 3B and suddenly get superior power and defensive ability that he has never shown before. If he improves as everyone hopes, he will be an average 3B and SS may improve defensively but takes a huge hit offensively. I might make this move for Carlos Rivero when it is warranted but not for AsCab. But that's just my opinion, folks. As the old adage goes, be careful what you wish for.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:50 pm

This move should only be made and will only be made if the Indians acquire an impact 2B. If that happens, then Peralta at 3B is not a big deal. The drop in offense at shortstop is gained by the increase in offense we get at 3B with Peralta over what would have been there as well as what we added at 2B. The primary objective should be a 3B so you leave Peralta at SS and Cabrera at 2B, but the Indians are doing the right thing by keeping open minded and looking at 2B as a spot they could use help knowing the flexibility Peralta and Cabrera offer them of moving to 3B and SS respectively.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby Uncle Rick » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:23 pm

So TL..
If it comes down to Roberts or Uggla who would you rather see? After checking their stats on the Baseball Reference website, I believe Roberts would be the better fit. Uggla has the 30 plus power potential that is very attractive and is a couple years younger, but those 171 Ks this year scare me. IMO the last thing we need is another all-or-nothing swinger in our lineup even though Wedge says that don't bother him. Jellis expressed his reservation about Roberts age catching up with his style of play but I couldn't find evidence of that so far and he will play next year at 31 which should give him a few premium years yet. I discounted Hudson because I just can't see an impact free agent signing with the Tribe.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:39 pm

Roberts gets my vote by a landslide over Uggla.

That said, Roberts only has 1 years left on his deal and will likely cost a lot in terms of prospects.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:08 pm

Hi TL and Unc,(belatedly daz)

Tony, this is the closest we have been to a mutally acceptable deal since we started talking in July. I just don't want to make our lineup weaker defensively in hopes that we can improve offensively by switching the best offensive SS in the majors to another position. Roberts is an acceptable 2B who is closing in on the years where his value will likely decline. I do not think he will lead off in Cleveland, although several posters do. Uggla is a DH masquerading as a 2B. Other than a potent bat, he brings a bunch of negatives. He is at 2B in Florida because the option, Cantu, may be the only middle IF who is actually worse. I believe Roberts has two years remaining, one of which is an option, on his contract and will be very costly in terms of prospects. I know there are negatives offensively but I prefer a shorter term, less costly acquisition like Garrett Atkins. I still think Hodges can stay at 3B and will be better defensively there than Peralta but may be a full year away. I will concede that the IF will be range challenged in the hole with that lineup but there is not a perfect solution. If I were in Shapiro and Dolan's shoes, I would be very wary of commiting more than $75 million to the season opening payroll with this economy and the attendance issue. But you bring me a 2B who can field and brings something to our offense that we can afford, I will concede, however reluctantly, that your solution is probably the best answer in the short term. :|
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:37 pm

The problem with Atkins is this: -

Career at home (321 games):-

.337/.394/.527/.921 with 82 2B and 44HR in 1192 at bats.

Career on the road (326 games):-

.260/.328/.424/.752 with 68 2B and 45HR in 1242 at bats.

On the surface, Atkins is a good match as the Rockies have depth at 3B, but those numbers scare me.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:15 pm

I prefer Roberts over Uggla.

Roberts is the perfect fit in that he can get on base, hit well, has good speed, and plays sound defense. he would be a welcomed addition to a lineup full of station-to-station guys and high strikeout totals. The caveat with Roberts is he has just one year left on his deal. I don't worry about his age, as I believe if we acquire him it is likely just a one year signing and if could leave in FA after the season. Since he is a year from FA, I wouldn't overpay for him, but I would offer one top prospect and a mid-level guy for him.

Uggla has a potent, power bat and is under control for another three years. But the caveat with him is he is more the same old with the station-to-station, bad defense, and high strikeouts we already have in the lineup. Still, if a deal is attainable for the right match, you still gotta make it. He is clearly better than any 3B or 2B option available in FA.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:00 pm

Consigliere wrote:I prefer Roberts over Uggla.

Roberts is the perfect fit in that he can get on base, hit well, has good speed, and plays sound defense. he would be a welcomed addition to a lineup full of station-to-station guys and high strikeout totals. The caveat with Roberts is he has just one year left on his deal. I don't worry about his age, as I believe if we acquire him it is likely just a one year signing and if could leave in FA after the season. Since he is a year from FA, I wouldn't overpay for him, but I would offer one top prospect and a mid-level guy for him.

Uggla has a potent, power bat and is under control for another three years. But the caveat with him is he is more the same old with the station-to-station, bad defense, and high strikeouts we already have in the lineup. Still, if a deal is attainable for the right match, you still gotta make it. He is clearly better than any 3B or 2B option available in FA.


Me 2. Actually like 1 year better than 2 if it means cost will be less. Thought there was an option. Like Hudson much better than Uggla. Probably cost prohibitive however. I wouldn't mind the lack of speed so much if we made better contact. Just cannot get the idea to move JP from SS with uggla at 2B is a player. Roberts I can live with.

Hey Daz, completely agree. I just said I thought he might be the best overall short term option. Even his away stats look better than what we have.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby osueddy » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:27 am

So what happens IF Wes Hodges has a monster year and shapes up his defense and he is ready to go in 2010?

Do we suddenly shift the infield back over with Jhonny back to short and Cabrera back to 2B? Does that leave the 2B we just signed out in the cold? I would hope that we wouldn't overspend or give away to many great prospects for someone that could only play one year.

I would rather find someone who is some sort of stopgap player at 3B until Hodges is ready (remember the IF from above). Would Casey Blake sign a 2 year deal?
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby jellis » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:40 am

osueddy wrote:So what happens IF Wes Hodges has a monster year and shapes up his defense and he is ready to go in 2010?

Do we suddenly shift the infield back over with Jhonny back to short and Cabrera back to 2B? Does that leave the 2B we just signed out in the cold? I would hope that we wouldn't overspend or give away to many great prospects for someone that could only play one year.

I would rather find someone who is some sort of stopgap player at 3B until Hodges is ready (remember the IF from above). Would Casey Blake sign a 2 year deal?



I don't think people realize Blake might end up being too costly to resign. He had a good year and really helped out the dodgers a lot of teams need a 3B and he could end up with a much bigger contract then anyone expects for a guy who didn't make the majors till his late 20's I think he owes it to himself to cash in. Its not a good FA market and Blake might be the best 3B in it
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby osueddy » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:40 pm

Good point. Casey deserves it.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:43 am

osueddy wrote:So what happens IF Wes Hodges has a monster year and shapes up his defense and he is ready to go in 2010?

Do we suddenly shift the infield back over with Jhonny back to short and Cabrera back to 2B? Does that leave the 2B we just signed out in the cold? I would hope that we wouldn't overspend or give away to many great prospects for someone that could only play one year.

I would rather find someone who is some sort of stopgap player at 3B until Hodges is ready (remember the IF from above). Would Casey Blake sign a 2 year deal?


Still no gaurantee Hodges even stays at 3B. May ultimately end up a 3B.

If Peralta settles into 3B and does a great job, then I consider Hodges at 1B. If there is no room for him in 2010, and guys like Mills and LaPorta may be ready to assume that position at the big league level, then I am fine with using Hodges as a trade chip to fill another need at that time.

It is time to start using some of these guys in key trades.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TheWord » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:41 pm

The last thing I would want this team to do is NOT sign somebody because of a guy in AA who had a good first half, followed by disappointment.

If Hodges blows up, it's a bonus, not a problem. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but this team needs help immediately, not a stopgap.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby toledobuck » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:17 pm

Would you trade Crowe & Laffey for 3B G. Atkins? I think I would do that trade and COL would probably take a strong look at it. I do not know the contract status of Atkins so obviously I would want at least 2 full seasons of him if we gave up Crowe & Laffey. I think that works out quite well for both teams.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby jellis » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:25 pm

toledobuck wrote:Would you trade Crowe & Laffey for 3B G. Atkins? I think I would do that trade and COL would probably take a strong look at it. I do not know the contract status of Atkins so obviously I would want at least 2 full seasons of him if we gave up Crowe & Laffey. I think that works out quite well for both teams.



They would want a lot more. Crowe has little trade value out, even with the bounce back year and laffey is a 4 or 5 pitcher. Atkins having 2 years means they would prolly ask for hodges and huff. You might be able to trade Hodges, Laffey, and Crowe for Atkins but I would doubt they would take even that deal
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby TheWord » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:35 pm

Colorado has had an interest in Barfield in the past. I would offer up a package of starting with Barfield and Laffey and work up. Obviously it would take more than those two, but lower level prospects could play a role.
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Re: Peralta to 3B?

Postby jellis » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:01 pm

TheWord wrote:Colorado has had an interest in Barfield in the past. I would offer up a package of starting with Barfield and Laffey and work up. Obviously it would take more than those two, but lower level prospects could play a role.



if you willing to part with a rondon then that might work, but I still think barfields value is nil and did we ever hear what was wrong with laffey at the end of the year. he sure seemed hurt
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