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Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

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Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:50 pm

From Castrovince - The Indians signed Kirk Saarloos and Greg Aquino to minor league deals. Saarloos should be a god starter for the Columbus Clippers.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:52 pm

ha, well I don't know about a 'god' but he should be ok ;) ha, just kidding


hmm.....does this make anyone else think there will be another trade coming before opening day? All but one of Sowers, Laffey, Huff, S. Lewis, Jackson, Ohka, and now Saarloos should be in the rotation.....maybe Jackson or Ohka end up on the pen....but that's still a full rotation, and that's not even counting Dixon and Edell who could be there as well......
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Tribe Adds pitchers Saarloos and Aquino for depth

Postby toledobuck » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:57 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... her_1.html

I am not exactly sure why they added these two guys to minor league deals but depth is definitely a good thing. Aquino in particular is a decent bullpen arm that has had some success in the past as a closer. I just don't understand why he would want to come to the Indians that already have a plethora of bullpen depth right now. I guess he takes the place of Stevens. Aquino could also earn the last Tribe bully spot if Mujica bombs in ST. Good depth signing nonetheless.
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Re: Tribe Adds pitchers Saarloos and Aquino for depth

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:01 pm

Already been posted on the prospect thread.......
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:01 pm

You have to think 2 of that group of 7 will be in Cleveland filling the 5th starter role and a bullpen role. Its also possible (if Reyes or Pavano are hurt) that another rotation spot will need to be filled.

Another name for the Cbus rotation is Frank Herrman.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Jake Taylor » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:03 pm

Herrmann should be in the mix for that rotation in Columbus, too...

I think Huff, Lewis, Sowers, Herrmann, and one of the others between Jackson, Ohka, and Saarloos will win that last spot.

I think Laffey or Lewis wins the rotation spot out of Spring Training, and for now I'll go with Laffey.
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Re: Tribe Adds pitchers Saarloos and Aquino for depth

Postby MickS » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Already been posted on the prospect thread.......


So Aquino and Sarloos are prospects?
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Re: Tribe Adds pitchers Saarloos and Aquino for depth

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:21 pm

no, but are they 'beyond the minors' if they are pitching in the minors?


Also wasn't me that posted it there, just giving a heads up that a conversation already started on that thread about this.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:24 pm

Jake Taylor wrote:Herrmann should be in the mix for that rotation in Columbus, too...

I think Huff, Lewis, Sowers, Herrmann, and one of the others between Jackson, Ohka, and Saarloos will win that last spot.

I think Laffey or Lewis wins the rotation spot out of Spring Training, and for now I'll go with Laffey.


So....is Pavano not getting a rotation spot?

Obviously he could be hurt (or anyone in the rotation)......but even if 2 guys get hurt, Tribe still has the depth to fill out the Cleveland and Columbus rotations without being at all shorthanded.

And I did forget about Hermann, knew I was forgetting someone (though he could start in Akron). Just adds more fuel to trade talks though.......


I still think Mujica wins the last bullpen spot. He's out of options and the Tribe has kept him around this long.....they kept Davis and Cabrera in 2007 leaving Perez to go to the Buffalo rotation.....I see them doing the same this year, but you never know.....
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Jake Taylor » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:41 pm

I'm not sure what you mean with the Pavano comment...? Were you meaning to reply to MadThinker?

I'm guessing the rotation in Cleveland to be:
Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Pavano, and Laffey...

Then guessing the rotation in Columbus to be:
Huff, Lewis, Sowers, Herrmann, and Jackson / Ohka / Saarloos... I think it will be Ohka or Saarloos so the rotation isn't so left-heavy.

I also agree with you on Mujica, I think he'll stick as the final guy in the bullpen.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:47 pm

Jake Taylor wrote:I'm not sure what you mean with the Pavano comment...? Were you meaning to reply to MadThinker?


I apologize. I totally misread and thought you said Laffey and Lewis making the Cleveland rotation. And totally missed that last statememt somehow, my bad.


I don't think the tribe will really worry about how lefty (or righty) heavy any of their minor league rotations are. If they feel as an organization they'd be better off with 5 lefties at Columbus I'm sure they'd do it. Jackson though could wind up in the pen, especially if Cleveland thinks he'll contribute there at the ML level during the season....though they could also start him to stretch out his arm and add innings (kinda like what they did with Perez at the start of the 2007 season)....
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby osueddy » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:14 pm

Jake Taylor wrote:I'm not sure what you mean with the Pavano comment...? Were you meaning to reply to MadThinker?

I'm guessing the rotation in Cleveland to be:
Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Pavano, and Laffey...

Then guessing the rotation in Columbus to be:
Huff, Lewis, Sowers, Herrmann, and Jackson / Ohka / Saarloos... I think it will be Ohka or Saarloos so the rotation isn't so left-heavy.

I also agree with you on Mujica, I think he'll stick as the final guy in the bullpen.


I've got to agree with your Tribe rotation and the beginning of your Columbus rotation. I just hope that Dixon and Edell get their deserved shot to move up to AAA instead of using fillers like Ohka and/or Saarloos. I'm starting to go along with Tony's idea that Shapiro doesn't develop the talent all that well.

Also, help me with Cleveland's pitching staff:

SP (5)
Cliff Lee, Fausto Carmona, Anthony Reyes, Carl Pavano, and Aaron Laffey (could be anyone there)

RP (6)
Masa Kobayashi
Rafael Betancourt
Joe Smith
Jensen Lewis
Rafael Perez
Kerry Wood

Do you anticipate the Indians keeping 12 pitchers? You think the 12th one would be Mujica?


Columbus pitching staff:

SP (5)
David Huff
Scott Lewis
Jeremy Sowers
Zach Jackson
Frank Hermann

RP (7)
Kevin Dixon
John Meloan
Adam Miller
Eddie Mujica
Rich Rundles
Tony Sipp (I hope)
Randy Newsom

That possibly leaves Edell at Akron.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:04 pm

osueddy wrote: I've got to agree with your Tribe rotation and the beginning of your Columbus rotation. I just hope that Dixon and Edell get their deserved shot to move up to AAA instead of using fillers like Ohka and/or Saarloos. I'm starting to go along with Tony's idea that Shapiro doesn't develop the talent all that well.

Also, help me with Cleveland's pitching staff:

SP (5)
Cliff Lee, Fausto Carmona, Anthony Reyes, Carl Pavano, and Aaron Laffey (could be anyone there)

RP (6)
Masa Kobayashi
Rafael Betancourt
Joe Smith
Jensen Lewis
Rafael Perez
Kerry Wood

Do you anticipate the Indians keeping 12 pitchers? You think the 12th one would be Mujica?


Columbus pitching staff:

SP (5)
David Huff
Scott Lewis
Jeremy Sowers
Zach Jackson
Frank Hermann

RP (7)
Kevin Dixon
John Meloan
Adam Miller
Eddie Mujica
Rich Rundles
Tony Sipp (I hope)
Randy Newsom

That possibly leaves Edell at Akron.


there will be 7 man bullpen in Cleveland. since Mujica is out of options, he will not be in Columbus.

imho Zach Jackson gets the 7th spot as a long man/ 2nd lefty in Cleveland. That opens a slot in the Clipper rotation for Edell or Ohko or Saarloos.

Not sure if the Clippers will have a 7 man bullpen as minor league rosters are limited to 24 players. If 7 in the pen, don't forget about Aquino for the last spot.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby toledobuck » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:01 am

Aquino will be going for the last big league bullpen spot against Mujica.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:07 pm

If Aquino makes the Cleveland bullpen over Adam Miller, John Meloan and others, many fans including myself will be shcoked and dismayed......
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:26 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:If Aquino makes the Cleveland bullpen over Adam Miller, John Meloan and others, many fans including myself will be shcoked and dismayed......


miller I really doubt has any real chance and it would be a waste to use an option on meloan for him to be the last guy in the pen and never get to pitch
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:01 am

I won't be dismayed....if Aquino gets it that means he pitched better than the other guys. I'd rather have the best guy in the pen (especially since Aquino will be making almost nothing).
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby dnosco » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:24 pm

Rotoworld has the Indians also signing Vinnie Chulk, Matt Herges and Jack Cassel to minor league deals.

Man, are we cornering the market on AAAA relievers or what?

Is this Wedgeball coming into play where he never met an inexperienced reliever (Meloan, Miller, Rundles) that he liked?

Is Shapiro more concerned about our bullpen than he is admitting?

Were there better guys out there we could have gotten on minor league deals than these guys if we intended to sign multiple (like FIVE OR MORE) veteran relievers to minor league deals?
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:29 pm

I like all those signings. Never know on the health of guys and a trade could also be in the works (never know).

Bullpen is the one area where the Tribe doesn't seem to ever hesitate in letting guys go and bringing up young talent (let Fultz, Borowski, and Hernandez go in the last 2 years....not to mention Davis and Cabrera to make room for younger guys like perez and lewis).

Having a lot of options is never a bad thing.....and I have a feeling that other than the 7th open bullpen spot (which likely will go to Mujica by default) that the tribe isn't sold on Kobayshi still. Betancourt also has to rebound...though he did have a good push at the end of the year.....
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby dnosco » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:06 pm

Hermie,

If some or all of these guys pitch at Columbus won't it take innings away from the young guys who should be getting them? I can think of about 4-5 young pitchers who might need relief innings at AAA. Hey, there is a chance that none of them will work out but go through the 2008 ML stats. A lot of teams used young, inexperienced relievers as stop gaps and, as I remember my research, a number of them performed well. For instance, had these 5 guys been present at Buffalo in 2007, would Jensen Lewis have ever even gotten a shot?
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Who should be getting innings in the Columbus pen that won't? Newsom? I'm ok with that. He really belongs in Akron anyways til he can learn to strikeout more guys than he walks. Meloan, Miller, Sipp, and Rundles should be getting innings at AAA......Edell or Jackson if they go to the pen, but that's it really.

Plus Chulk has an opt out clause. If he's not up by May 15th he can become a free agent. Either him or Mujica will be gone by then most likely freeing up another spot.

Shapiro signed 4 guys to be at the ML bullpen in 2007: Borowski, Foulke, Fultz, and Hernandez.....didn't spot the development of Perez OR Lewis. If the team wants to bump a guy up they'll cut ties with the vet as they've shown they'll do in the past, plain and simple.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby dnosco » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:48 pm

"Shapiro signed 4 guys to be at the ML bullpen in 2007: Borowski, Foulke, Fultz, and Hernandez.....didn't spot the development of Perez OR Lewis. If the team wants to bump a guy up they'll cut ties with the vet as they've shown they'll do in the past, plain and simple."

Hold on there: Foulke never pitched, Hernandez only pitched briefly, etc. Had these guys actually PITCHED for the Indians to any great extent, young guys WOULD have gotten bumped. The fact that it didn't happen because the old guys tanked is really not relevant and is less relevant at AAA than in the majors, making it more of a risk. There are guys who could be getting innings.

ML pen: Wood, Smith, Perez, Betancourt, Mujica, Kobayashi, Lewis.

Unless we go with an 8-man pen the following guys are in AAA or pushed back to AA:

Meloan, Jackson, Miller, Newsom, Rundles, Buzachero, Roehl, Sipp, Nottingham, Wright, Stiller, Wagner, Meyer, among others assuming no starter gets converted to reliever. That's 13 relievers right there just from our minor leagues.

Why, given that, would we add 4-5 AAA relievers? Doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, Miller, Jackson, Meloan and Rundles should be all the depth we need at AAA as far as close to ready to go guys. Bringing these guys in just sends the wrong signal to the guys in the minors, as far as I am concerned, especially when we are drafting guys in hordes to be relievers...and they are having success.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby npc29 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:57 pm

They are like Minor League deals.. I wouldn't really put any stock into it other than what it is. They make the team they make the team. I don't think anyone is worrying about depth.

I think it's nice to have options, especially some that have some sort of ML experience, you never know.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:05 pm

dnosco wrote:Hold on there: Foulke never pitched, Hernandez only pitched briefly, etc. Had these guys actually PITCHED for the Indians to any great extent, young guys WOULD have gotten bumped. The fact that it didn't happen because the old guys tanked is really not relevant and is less relevant at AAA than in the majors, making it more of a risk. There are guys who could be getting innings.

ML pen: Wood, Smith, Perez, Betancourt, Mujica, Kobayashi, Lewis.

Unless we go with an 8-man pen the following guys are in AAA or pushed back to AA:

Meloan, Jackson, Miller, Newsom, Rundles, Buzachero, Roehl, Sipp, Nottingham, Wright, Stiller, Wagner, Meyer, among others assuming no starter gets converted to reliever. That's 13 relievers right there just from our minor leagues.

Why, given that, would we add 4-5 AAA relievers? Doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, Miller, Jackson, Meloan and Rundles should be all the depth we need at AAA as far as close to ready to go guys. Bringing these guys in just sends the wrong signal to the guys in the minors, as far as I am concerned, especially when we are drafting guys in hordes to be relievers...and they are having success.


That's my point. Foulke never picked (injury and retirement). An injury could easily happen to someone thus making a spot. I doubt we make it through camp without any injuries.....though I'm keepign my fingers crossed.

Hernandez pitched poorly and was cut. Same thing could happen again. Tribe doesn't tend to hold on to vet relievers too long (though they do sometimes). If a guy is playing bad, they could easily let him go and be out only a minor league deal.


And most those guys you mentioned of the '13' are AA pitchers. And I thought for some reason Buzachero was gone (maybe not though). Any case, he has not more business being in AAA than the guys we signed.

You and your signals. If our guys can't handle competition then I don't want them on my team. Good grief I never realized how sensitive minor league players must be :s_empathy
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby dnosco » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:07 pm

I diagree completely about not holding onto AAAA guys at AAA. Bauer, Ginter, Harris, Elarton all pitched significantly and they were still bringing AAAA guys in all season. My point was partly that they are filling the AAA bullpen with vets to stack it so that those are their depth guys. Given the younger guys who can fill those spots and SHOULD be the depth guys, that makes no sense to me, a point that you are dancing around.

So, yeah, they will cut bait on veterans at the major league level. But who will they replace them with? That is my point. The fact that they are stocking up on veterans at AAA worries me that it will be veterans. THere are 4 or more young relievers deserving of a ML chance who won't even make the 25 man roster. No way you need more depth than that at AAA...unless your manager only plays rookies when his back is against the wall...and then those guys have instant success.

Imagine that?

Regarding guys not being able to handle the competition that same old argument is pulled out every time veterans are brought in. Try that at any profession and see how it flies. It is not a matter of the competition it is a matter of the perception. Yeah, Brandon Phillips and Jeremy Guthrie sure fell flat on their faces when they had a legitimate opportunity to win a job in Cincinnati and Baltimore, respectively, didn't they? Sometimes, like with Lewis, Francisco and others, just giving them the chance gives them the impetus to hold onto it. Your comment is just another in a long line of self-fulfilling prophecies that are trotted out when veterans are stacked up as depth guys when there are plenty of young depth guys available.
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Re: Indians sign Sarloos and Aquino

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:55 am

Phillips was given a legit chance in Cleveland. That's a bad example. Should they have given him another chance? In hindsight yes, but his attitude wasn't the greatest....though still a terrible move.

And one big thing your overlooking with all these 'minor league signings' is that NONE of these guys are even guranteed a minor league spot coming out of sprign training. Tribe could easily cut bait with them before breaking camp if they don't like what they see. Tribe did it with Fultz last year and he had a guaranteed ML contract. Highly doubt they'll be hesitant to do the same with a minor league invite guy.

I also can't think of 4 guys that are more deserving of a ML roster spot. Miller hasn't been healthy or pitched enough out of the pen to really warrant it (at least not yet). Meloan had a down year in AAA last year (though as a starter) and hasn't had the greatest numbers at the ML level. Rundles is not better than the guys we signed, he's a journey man who was on a minor league NRI himself before. Sipp hasn't proven to be healthy and had a bit of a setback already. Mujica will likely get the last spot.....though has far from shown enough to truly say he's worthy of it as well.
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