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MLB Hot Stove

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:28 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:A small note.... Jack Hannahan signed a 1 yr / $2M deal with the Reds.


Good payday for the Hannahan.

Liked a tweet I read about how the Reds signed Hannahan to protect Choo in case Jonathan Sanchez throws at him again. :lol
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:29 pm

Few quick notes of interest

@JonHeymanCBS: barring a trade (& ellsbury deal very unlikely), #redsox OF is set. so no swish.


@CaminoTribe: Source: STO will officially become FOX in the next few days. However, it will not be called "FOX" immediately.


@WFNYScott: Buster on #Indians: "Because of this trade, this offseason represents a step forward, no matter what else happens." http://t.co/U0wglYhd
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:33 pm

There were rumors on Philly radio stations that the Phillies offered Justin Hamilton 3 yrs / $80 M over this past week end huge offer if at all true. Reportedly, Hamilton countered with a 5 yr deal.

Interesting if true, but it seems they are kicking around other potential moves for the OF too. If they did land Hamilton however, I'd think they might make Cliff Lee available - mere speculation on my part.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:35 pm

A quick thought from Tony's post about the deal last night that makes a whole lot of sense.

As he pointed out Houston got Alex White & another pitcher who's name escapes me right now for Wilton Lopez. Not a bad return, White has struggled and may ultimately only be a reliever but still has good stuff.

So it does feel possible that a team like the Phillies could come calling for Matt Albers for example, but if not, he's been quite solid the past few seasons. Good asset to have whether he pitches for you or helps you brings in something else.

Seriously how did the Indians get Albers and Shaw (and yes, Stubbs) along with Bauer?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:There were rumors on Philly radio stations that the Phillies offered Justin Hamilton 3 yrs / $80 M over this past week end huge offer if at all true. Reportedly, Hamilton countered with a 5 yr deal.

Interesting if true, but it seems they are kicking around other potential moves for the OF too. If they did land Hamilton however, I'd think they might make Cliff Lee available - mere speculation on my part.


If Hamilton goes to the Phillies, the last men standing, Nick Swisher & Michael Bourn, could be the next target of several teams which could put the Indians (if they're one of the teams bidding) into a bidding war. Not good for us. CA will absolutely have to consider the trade market for an additional impact OF bat (or more pitching).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 pm

GoTribe,

Alex White and Alex Gillingham went to the Astros for Lopez going to the Rox.

I think it's a real possibility they flip an arm or two in a trade. Possibly a RHRP for a LHRP to fill the void left behind after the departure of both Raffy Perez and Sipp. Could simply mean the Tribe tries to go after a FA LHRP Gorzelanny, Howell and Parra could be options.

A personal note to everyone who posted the tweets and links,
Thanks for posting all the tweets and / or links last night. I'm not a social media type - I kind of try to limit what I get into bc I'm a grad student with some crazy kids running around my house, so study time, etc can be limited. It's appreciated.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:00 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:...Seriously how did the Indians get Albers and Shaw (and yes, Stubbs) along with Bauer?


It was Walt Jockety's fault !! He raised the price for Stubbs & DiDi so high that Kevin Towers couldn't resist giving up some BP arms and a prospect for DiDi. Afterall, KT sees DiDi as the next Derek Jeter !!
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:06 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:...Seriously how did the Indians get Albers and Shaw (and yes, Stubbs) along with Bauer?


It was Walt Jockety's fault !! He raised the price for Stubbs & DiDi so high that Kevin Towers couldn't resist giving up some BP arms and a prospect for DiDi. Afterall, KT sees DiDi as the next Derek Jeter !!


Ha, yeah didn't think of it that way. Towers also made a comment last night I recall along the lines of Bauer was only their 3rd best pitching prospect behind Corbin and Skaggs. Skaggs can at least make a case, but most of the industry folk will laugh at that statement as much as the "young Jeter" comment.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:18 pm

Towers is no idiot BUT the moves he's made this offseason have been questionable.

Gregorius is a much better talent IMO than I think he's given credit for. He's got a lot of upside still and IMO isn't quite ready for the MLB offensively. I would project Gregorius being a .250 hitter 10hrs 20sb type. He's not really posted much in the offensive categories in the minors but has the potential to develop into a solid ML SS.

Form a Dbax perspective It's hard believe they didn't at least land another prospect in the deal.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:30 pm

Per mlbtraderumors... Rays close to signing Roberto Hernandez.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:36 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/12/12/mlb-top-remaining-free-agents-josh-hamilton-anibal-sanchez-michael-bourn/1761965/

Interesting little arcitle from Nightengale. Not sure if the "market values" are his best guesses or if he's hearing that from people, but I found the 3yr/$40M market value for Edwin Jackson to be very intriguing. If that is even close to true, the Tribe needs to be in on that. It's more per year than what we offered Victorino, but less overall money and less years. $13.3M a year is a tad steep but Jackson is still young and gets you innings.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:36 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Per mlbtraderumors... Rays close to signing Roberto Hernandez.


Could you imagine the fan reaction in Cleveland if we "replaced" James Shields with Fausto Carmonandez? I know that's not really what it is, but you get the picture.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:38 pm

Hermie13 wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/12/12/mlb-top-remaining-free-agents-josh-hamilton-anibal-sanchez-michael-bourn/1761965/

Interesting little arcitle from Nightengale. Not sure if the "market values" are his best guesses or if he's hearing that from people, but I found the 3yr/$40M market value for Edwin Jackson to be very intriguing. If that is even close to true, the Tribe needs to be in on that. It's more per year than what we offered Victorino, but less overall money and less years. $13.3M a year is a tad steep but Jackson is still young and gets you innings.


Could see Boston jumping in and offering him another 3-5 million. Some reports from Jim Duquette and others say the only 2 teams to offer Napoli a contract were Boston and Cleveland, and we all know what happened with Victorino.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Tony posted this link to a Bauer article on his Twitter. It is a MUST READ.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:40 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:Per mlbtraderumors... Rays close to signing Roberto Hernandez.


Could you imagine the fan reaction in Cleveland if we "replaced" James Shields with Fausto Carmonandez? I know that's not really what it is, but you get the picture.


Wow, very surprising it's the Rays gettting him if true. Even with moving Shields they still have plenty of depth. Maybe Niemann's health still really concerns them. Though Fausto would have been a nice fit in Philly after moving Worley. ha, and yeah the cleveland.com cronies would be going nuts over such a signing.


Interestd in seeing if it's a big league deal or a minor league deal. If it's a big league deal....could mean the Rays are still open to moving a starter for some offense, and the Tribe still has 2 bats that could be a fit there IMO (Cabrera and Stubbs).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:41 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/12/12/mlb-top-remaining-free-agents-josh-hamilton-anibal-sanchez-michael-bourn/1761965/

Interesting little arcitle from Nightengale. Not sure if the "market values" are his best guesses or if he's hearing that from people, but I found the 3yr/$40M market value for Edwin Jackson to be very intriguing. If that is even close to true, the Tribe needs to be in on that. It's more per year than what we offered Victorino, but less overall money and less years. $13.3M a year is a tad steep but Jackson is still young and gets you innings.


Could see Boston jumping in and offering him another 3-5 million. Some reports from Jim Duquette and others say the only 2 teams to offer Napoli a contract were Boston and Cleveland, and we all know what happened with Victorino.


Yeah I'm not optimistic the Tribe can land him, but just hope they are in on him (some reports say we are). To me that deal or something around there is not bad at all for Jackson.

Speaking of Boston, reports now that they are in deep discussions with Dempster. Could take them out of any Jackson sweepstakes, though they have the funds to sign both guys if they wanted.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:50 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2012/12/12/mlb-top-remaining-free-agents-josh-hamilton-anibal-sanchez-michael-bourn/1761965/

Interesting little arcitle from Nightengale. Not sure if the "market values" are his best guesses or if he's hearing that from people, but I found the 3yr/$40M market value for Edwin Jackson to be very intriguing. If that is even close to true, the Tribe needs to be in on that. It's more per year than what we offered Victorino, but less overall money and less years. $13.3M a year is a tad steep but Jackson is still young and gets you innings.


Could see Boston jumping in and offering him another 3-5 million. Some reports from Jim Duquette and others say the only 2 teams to offer Napoli a contract were Boston and Cleveland, and we all know what happened with Victorino.


Yeah I'm not optimistic the Tribe can land him, but just hope they are in on him (some reports say we are). To me that deal or something around there is not bad at all for Jackson.


Hmmm,, maybe Boston isnt quite a fit?


@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #RedSox, Dempster in serious discussions. No deal yet; still possible he could sign elsewhere.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:53 pm

Wow....sounds like Fausto is getting a big league deal...that's not crazy, but according to mlbtr, it'll be the first big league deal the Rays have given a free agent SP since Friedman took over in 2005!! I know the Rays don't have a lot of money, but that still seems pretty incredible to me.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:58 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Wow....sounds like Fausto is getting a big league deal...that's not crazy, but according to mlbtr, it'll be the first big league deal the Rays have given a free agent SP since Friedman took over in 2005!! I know the Rays don't have a lot of money, but that still seems pretty incredible to me.


Good for Fausto then. He'll win 25 games for Tampa and pitch the division clincher for Tampa in September.

:eek

That's sarcasm by the way...he'll win 15 games :biggrin
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:21 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:A quick thought from Tony's post about the deal last night that makes a whole lot of sense.

As he pointed out Houston got Alex White & another pitcher who's name escapes me right now for Wilton Lopez. Not a bad return, White has struggled and may ultimately only be a reliever but still has good stuff.

So it does feel possible that a team like the Phillies could come calling for Matt Albers for example, but if not, he's been quite solid the past few seasons. Good asset to have whether he pitches for you or helps you brings in something else.

Seriously how did the Indians get Albers and Shaw (and yes, Stubbs) along with Bauer?

We threw in The Essential Lars.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:33 pm

I kind of look at the trade as including Steven Wright instead of Anderson. So the Tribe sent Gregorius, Wright and Sipp to the Dbax for Bauer, Albers and Shaw. No matter how you look at that, it seems a good deal or at least not a deal breaker for the Tribe.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:37 pm

I wonder if the Dbax had the choice of Lars/McDade/McGuinness? Anyway you look at it, one of those was going to be removed from the 40.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:41 pm

Not sure if this means anything, and I truly doubt it does, but there are a lot of rumblings that Hamilton could be heading to the Phillies.

That doesn't make sense to me, cause none of the national guys are picking up on it, and many are quick to point out that Hamilton has let Texas know that they will be given every chance to match a teams offer. So if that were true, why would anyone make an offer knowing Texas will have the chance to match it? Hoping that Texas will pass doesn't seem sensible to me, especially with Nick Swisher still out there.

Hamilton must be hoping that a team will jump forward like Detroit dd last season with Prince Fielder and offer up a monster contract.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:44 pm

daingean wrote:I wonder if the Dbax had the choice of Lars/McDade/McGuinness? Anyway you look at it, one of those was going to be removed from the 40.


Actually makes the McGuinness pick make a lot more sense. Need to replace the AAA fodder somehow.

Wouldn't be shocked to see McDade also get the boot soon especially if a FA signing comes to fruition.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:51 pm

@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Braves made "aggressive" offer for Choo. #Mariners also were involved but did not offer as strong a package.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:09 pm

Lars Anderson replaced Ryan Wheeler the 1b the Dbax flipped to the Rox for Matt Reynolds - LHRP. Btw, the Dbax wanted to upgrade their LHRP and have made trades that have involved Reynolds now Sipp so that seems to be set for them. Anderson provides them with a once highly regarded young 1b.

Once the Mark Reynolds deal is finalized I think we could see McDade getting DFA. OR the Tribe could be in the midst of some heated discussions with another club(s) to 1. Clear a roster spot 2. Fill another need.

IF the Hamilton rumors are true and he does end up in Philly than it means he's probably already went back to TX with his potential deal. I could easily see TX moving on from Hamilton and turning to LaRoche and Swisher who could easily replace Hamiltons offense at a about $5 M more. Also, I posted this earlier but I think Hamilton signing with Philly would make Lee available.

I'm 100 % certain the Tribes not done dealing. I wouldn't be surprised to see them work to acq. another talented young SP to pair with Trevor Bauer. Truth is, they tried furiously to land Skaggs from the Dbax obviously they want to add a LHSP to the mix. I know Skaggs isn't just any LHSP and man he would have looked great with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.

I think we could see the Tribe try to mix it up a bit by trying to land one of: Francisco Liriano, Joe Saunders and maybe Gorzelanny or Parra for the pen.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:22 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Lars Anderson replaced Ryan Wheeler the 1b the Dbax flipped to the Rox for Matt Reynolds - LHRP. Btw, the Dbax wanted to upgrade their LHRP and have made trades that have involved Reynolds now Sipp so that seems to be set for them. Anderson provides them with a once highly regarded young 1b.

Once the Mark Reynolds deal is finalized I think we could see McDade getting DFA. OR the Tribe could be in the midst of some heated discussions with another club(s) to 1. Clear a roster spot 2. Fill another need.

IF the Hamilton rumors are true and he does end up in Philly than it means he's probably already went back to TX with his potential deal. I could easily see TX moving on from Hamilton and turning to LaRoche and Swisher who could easily replace Hamiltons offense at a about $5 M more. Also, I posted this earlier but I think Hamilton signing with Philly would make Lee available.

I'm 100 % certain the Tribes not done dealing. I wouldn't be surprised to see them work to acq. another talented young SP to pair with Trevor Bauer. Truth is, they tried furiously to land Skaggs from the Dbax obviously they want to add a LHSP to the mix. I know Skaggs isn't just any LHSP and man he would have looked great with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.

I think we could see the Tribe try to mix it up a bit by trying to land one of: Francisco Liriano, Joe Saunders and maybe Gorzelanny or Parra for the pen.


Not sure why Lee would be available because of Hamilton. Plus the Phillies are looking for a "low cost option" for the 5th spot.

I don't want the Indians anywhere near Liriano. I only want to talk about Saunders if the Indians miss on Edwin Jackson.

Both Gorzelanny and Parra would only be ok options. JP Howell is still out there though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:27 pm

It seems to me Swisher is waiting on the mkt to develop - perhaps in hopes of getting another / more intriguing offer(s). I know the Tribe would love to land him but it seems the odds are stacked against them. It may be time for the Tribe to move on from Swisher. Cody Ross and Scott Hairston would be to ideal targets IMO IF Swisher seems to be uninterested.

Also, I'm expecting the Tribe to make an aggressive offer for Edwin Jackson. Jackson would provide durability and sound innings for the 2 slot in the rotation. A cpl others I call more fall back or secondary options... Saunders, Villanueva, Marcum, Liriano.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:38 pm

Lee was rumored to be available. IF Philly potentially moved Lee it would be for salary relief and for a sound return. I was merely suggesting it could be the case bc they reportedly want to keep their payroll in check.Hamilton is by no means out of the question for them but I could see them try to move him for some flexibility.

Btw, I was suggesting Liriano and Saunders as secondary options and pointing out I believe the Tribe would like to add a lefty to the rotation. Liriano could be had on a 1 yr low salary / incentive laden type deal. If he struggles in the rotation simply bump him into the pen as another lefty.

I think the Tribes priority list is something like...

Swisher
Jackson
Ross
Saunders
Villanueva
Marcum
Hairston

I think the Tribe will look at a few options for a LHRP like Howell, Gorzelanny and Parra. Of those three I like Howell but he has had some injury history and could cost more than they are comfortable in sinking into another bullpen option. As I mentioned earlier they could simply try to flip a RHRP for a LHRP.

Also, I don't think it's out of the question the Tribe moves ACab prior to the season. There are still a number of suitors for his services and the Tribe could try to acq. a young controllable bat and a SP in the deal. I wouldn't be shocked to see them revisit the Cards in a deal either. The rotation could really take off IF the Tribe were able to snag Lance Lynn - RHSP and Matt Adams - 1b / DH from the Cards. I'd expect they'd still be open to that type deal.

The Tribe could always try to flip ACab to the A's for an OF and young SP. OR like I suggested last night Yoenis Cespedes but Chris Young might be more reasonable. There was a rumor that the Dodgers offered Dee Gordon and Zach Lee for RA Dickey. That could be a option IF the Dodgers were interested in ACab, and we have already heard they've talked Dee Gordon - in case they traded ACab so there could be ground work laid already for a deal. A few young RF I like that may be targets if the Tribe tries to go that route... Michael Choice (A's), Yasiel Puig (Dodgers), Bryce Brentz (Red Sox).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby ironmike » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:53 pm

Hey Tony, what did new pitching coach Mickey Callaway recently say about Ubaldo Jimenez?

Write the story even though it will be painful for you.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:48 pm

ironmike wrote:Hey Tony, what did new pitching coach Mickey Callaway recently say about Ubaldo Jimenez?

Write the story even though it will be painful for you.


Sorry...but what?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:19 pm

Ironmike with his great comments again. Really livens up the place.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:13 pm

Any chance that the tribe now has what it takes to match up with the Nationals for a guy like mike morse (assuming the ants resign Laroche)?????
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:34 pm

Here's an interesting article on why the Dbax traded Trevor Bauer. Probably nothing new to most of us.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... o/1765351/
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:42 pm

I'd definitely think the Tribe would have interest in Morse for RF. I'm not sure they'll be able to land Swisher but I think it's realistic they hit on either Cody Ross or Scott Hairston. I'd guess a fall back option could always be Aviles but that would be worst case IMO.

The Tribe seems to have opened up 2 needs in this trade RF and a LHRP. With the tremendous depths they have in the pen I think we could see the Tribe make a move to fill one or both needs via trade if they miss out on FA. Two names I'd be interested in seeing are: Antonio Bastardo and Jeremy Horst both of the Phillies.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Edible14 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:04 am

I'm really liking what I see the Indians coming out with this year. Still wondering who gets DFA'd for Reynolds (Wood or Herrmann would make sense, given the depth out of the bullpen they have). The depth chart looks like it's coming along

C: Satana, Marson
1B: Reynolds (perhaps playing some 3B against tough lefties?)
2B: Kipnis
SS: Cabrera
3B: Chisenhall
RF: Swisher
CF: Stubbs
LF: Brantley
DH: Canzler
1B/DH: McGuinness
UIF: Aviles
OF: Carerra

SP: Masterson, Jackson(or Marcum), Bauer, McAllister, Jimenez
RP: Huff (long man, lefty #2), Hagadone, Albers, Shaw, Smith, Pestano, Perez

Columbus:
C: Perez (Gomes/Chen acting as backups)
1B: McDade
2B: Phelps
SS: Diaz
3B: Gomes
RF: Neal
CF: Fedroff
LF: LaPorta
DH: Chen
IF: Lawson
OF: MiLFA
SP: Carrasco, Kluber, Barnes, Gomez, Packer (McFarland, Adams, Berger, Cook all likely fill-ins for injuries)
RP: Wood, Herrman, Allen (could be Shaw, but one of would likely start in CBus), Lee, Sturdevant, A converterted LH starter or two (Packer and Barnes seem likely candidates), Van Mill/Price/Langwell also are options

That's a AAA team with several very good options on the back-burner. Guys are primed to replace some of the question marks (Fedroff for Zeke, Neal for Canzler, McDade for McGuinness, Gomes for either Marson or Chiz), and they should be able to provide the Indians with some options for the rotation should any of those guys fail out. Carrasco could be a mid-season replacement for Ubaldo if need be. Kluber/Barnes/Gomez should be able to fill in for injured players, or replace McAllister if he regresses.

You'd have to get creative and probably delusional to think it's a contender, but the thing I like is that there's nobody on the team that you won't have past 2013 who absolutely could not be replaced.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:54 am

Edible14 wrote:I'm really liking what I see the Indians coming out with this year. Still wondering who gets DFA'd for Reynolds (Wood or Herrmann would make sense, given the depth out of the bullpen they have). The depth chart looks like it's coming along

C: Satana, Marson
1B: Reynolds (perhaps playing some 3B against tough lefties?)
2B: Kipnis
SS: Cabrera
3B: Chisenhall
RF: Swisher
CF: Stubbs
LF: Brantley
DH: Canzler
1B/DH: McGuinness
UIF: Aviles
OF: Carerra

SP: Masterson, Jackson(or Marcum), Bauer, McAllister, Jimenez
RP: Huff (long man, lefty #2), Hagadone, Albers, Shaw, Smith, Pestano, Perez

Columbus:
C: Perez (Gomes/Chen acting as backups)
1B: McDade
2B: Phelps
SS: Diaz
3B: Gomes
RF: Neal
CF: Fedroff
LF: LaPorta
DH: Chen
IF: Lawson
OF: MiLFA
SP: Carrasco, Kluber, Barnes, Gomez, Packer (McFarland, Adams, Berger, Cook all likely fill-ins for injuries)
RP: Wood, Herrman, Allen (could be Shaw, but one of would likely start in CBus), Lee, Sturdevant, A converterted LH starter or two (Packer and Barnes seem likely candidates), Van Mill/Price/Langwell also are options

That's a AAA team with several very good options on the back-burner. Guys are primed to replace some of the question marks (Fedroff for Zeke, Neal for Canzler, McDade for McGuinness, Gomes for either Marson or Chiz), and they should be able to provide the Indians with some options for the rotation should any of those guys fail out. Carrasco could be a mid-season replacement for Ubaldo if need be. Kluber/Barnes/Gomez should be able to fill in for injured players, or replace McAllister if he regresses.

You'd have to get creative and probably delusional to think it's a contender, but the thing I like is that there's nobody on the team that you won't have past 2013 who absolutely could not be replaced.


isn't Gomez out of options?

Also don't forget (although its very easy to) about some of the minor league signings being in the mix at Columbus. infielders Luis Hernandez and Nate Spears and outfielders Matt Carson and Cedric Hunter

I don't think Mark Reynolds will play any 3rd base for Cleveland. Not with Aviles around.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:07 am

Can't tell if he's just throwing out old news as new news or what but FWIW

@JimBowdenESPNxm: According to Indians source they are continuing aggressive pursuit of Nick Swisher who would replace Choo in RF.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:54 am

I think Hermann, Huff and Gomez are all out of options. I'd think any or all of those three could be DFA or thrown ins in other coming trades.

Here's a list of players I think could be jeopardy of losing their roster spots...
Frank Hermann
David Huff
Jeanmar Gomez
Thomas Neal
Ezekiel Carrera
Mike McDade
Cord Phelps

Others:
Chris McGuinness - could be returned to the Rangers, or traded
Blake Wood - likely misses the first few months of the season on 60 day DL, but is a big time back of the bullpen arm. Low risk / high reward type. Has five more yrs of control.
Josh Tomlin - likely misses all of 2013 recovering from TJ will be placed on 60 day DL at start of season.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby ironmike » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 am

Regarding Drew Stubbs, he has all the talent to be a 5 tool player provided he can put it all together. In 2010 and 2011 he scored more than 90 runs each season which is outstanding. Not many Indians on our roster are capable of that. He steals bases, he's athletic. He could steal more bases with a better on base percentage but you can't steal first base. Stubbs could score more than 100 per season if he makes the necessary adjustments. We shall see.

The big issue, Stubbs could be special if he can cut down on the K's. The Reds could not get him to implement the coaching they preached to him about his plate approach. If the Indians can get through to him regarding, his offensive production would go through the roof to compliment his defensive skill set. If he would adopt the correct two strike approach about hitting the ball hard up the middle, putting the ball in play with two strikes he could improve quickly.

If Stubbs could repeat his 2010 year a team can live with the K's, 168 versus 55 walks in 514 AB's, but not when he hits .213. How many teams in the ML start a CF who hits .213? None. They look to upgrade that position and that is what the Reds did. Stubbs has great talent, but the Reds found him to be his own worst enemy, a hard-head.

Players do change, let's hope Stubbs does in an Indians uniform. If he does, he could be dynamic, otherwise he will disappoint.

PS HAFH - Frank Herrmann has value and shouldn't be DFA'd. He did very well last year in his short stint with the Indians. The knuckle-curve he developed in Columbus last year really helped him.

PPS McAllister averaged almost 8 K's per nine innings, lots of talent, don't overlook him as one of our starting pitchers in 2013.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 am

Ironmike,

I agree Hermman has value, he pitched much better last yr and would get snagged off waivers probably by the Astros IF he were placed on waivers. I'm simply stating that they are likely to move some of these guys either by DFA and trading them. Hermman is potentially one of them.

I think the Tribe are buying some time with roster moves, they aren't in a rush but will have to make at least one move with these guys bc of the soon coming Mark Reynolds signing. I'd guess its likely Mike McDade - btw, the Tribe waited until day 10 the very last day to place their claim on McDade - which could be a sign they weren't overly impressed with him OR the more likely scenario - they waited bc they were working a number of deals and were leaving themselves roster flexibility.

It seems like things are heating up, I'm guessing but the Tribe could go 4 yrs / $60 M in an attempt to land Swisher. I'd think if he doesn't sign by this wk end they could move on to Cody Ross and / or Scott Hairston.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Tondo » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:04 am

Nice deal for Choo, even if Bauer should bust/get injured....hard to get FOR type arms and for 1 or half a season of Choo it's well worth it

Stubbs was a nice buy low addition too imho. He has some value if he returns to his career AVGs, which I suspect he will

Shaw was another nice add on, as he's controllable and has late inning experience already...he was the Dbacks 8th Inn guy and for the Indians he will probably be the 5th to 7th BP option, that's how deep our BP options are right now

Albers is a guy that will compete with many others for that last BP spot (Lee, Wood, Herrman etc)...with this BP depth, even if we trade 1 of them, I'd stretch out Barnes back to SP


That said, there's still room for improvement, so let's see what's left out there...

Obviously Swisher would be the perfect addition to this trade, but if we can't land him I hope we don't panic and over-spend on Ross. Has someone even looked at this guy's OPS outside of Fenway last season? It's below .700...no thanks, I'd much rather save the $ and sign Hairston, who played in Petco and Metco the past 4 seasons and has solid numbers away from those the past 2 seasons (over .800 OPS and hitting LHP)

As for LHRP....what about Mike Gonzales?

SP: Not a huge fan of E.Jackson...would prefer Marcum

With that, here's my wishlist:

RF: Plan A: Swisher, B: Hairston...I wouldn't even consider Ross, as I truly think he'd be a waste of money and future resources, much rather go with Fedroff/Neal

SP: A: Marcum, B: Saunders

RP: M.Gonzalez

Also, sign S.Drew if we trade ACab...would be a solid platoon with Aviles
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:49 pm

Red Sox nearing agreement with FA Ryan Dempster, potentially taking them out of any Edwin Jackson bidding. The Brewers are reportedly not interested in any FA starters outside of Dempster.

The whole thing with Mike Napoli isn't resolved yet due to a concern they had with his physical.

Also the Giants have signed OF Andres Torres (a name I mentioned as an interesting non tender pickup for the Indians) to a 1 year 2 million deal. John Heyman says the Giants are no longer pursuing Nick Swisher.

Also, a few tidbits from the Twitter

@JonHeymanCBS: from last nite: #mariners thought willing to go 4 or more for Josh, but #rangers viewed as favorites. http://t.co/1NzgmRVL

@JonHeymanCBS: so SF and Bos (barring trade) are out for swish. sea seems mixed on swish. cleve is in. but he may wait on josh signing.

Retweeted by Danny Knobler @Haudricourt: Assuming Dempster signs with Boston, #Brewers GM Doug Melvin told me he doesn't anticipate pursuing any other free-agent starting pitcher.

@JonHeymanCBS: #cubs are willing to pay about $26M of soriano's $36M if they get right prospect back. seems reasonable. 30/100 last yr

@jcrasnick: Now that #indians have traded Choo, Asdrubal Cabrera, Justin Masterson & Chris Perez are probably all staying put.

@jcrasnick: Tribe has 2 years of control on all those guys, so no urgency to make a deal right now. #Indians
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:15 pm

@ScottMCBS: Multiple teams continue wooing OF Nick Swisher, who is said to be "not even close" to making a decision. At least 3, maybe 4 clubs in mix.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:32 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:I'm really liking what I see the Indians coming out with this year. Still wondering who gets DFA'd for Reynolds (Wood or Herrmann would make sense, given the depth out of the bullpen they have). The depth chart looks like it's coming along

C: Satana, Marson
1B: Reynolds (perhaps playing some 3B against tough lefties?)
2B: Kipnis
SS: Cabrera
3B: Chisenhall
RF: Swisher
CF: Stubbs
LF: Brantley
DH: Canzler
1B/DH: McGuinness
UIF: Aviles
OF: Carerra

SP: Masterson, Jackson(or Marcum), Bauer, McAllister, Jimenez
RP: Huff (long man, lefty #2), Hagadone, Albers, Shaw, Smith, Pestano, Perez

Columbus:
C: Perez (Gomes/Chen acting as backups)
1B: McDade
2B: Phelps
SS: Diaz
3B: Gomes
RF: Neal
CF: Fedroff
LF: LaPorta
DH: Chen
IF: Lawson
OF: MiLFA
SP: Carrasco, Kluber, Barnes, Gomez, Packer (McFarland, Adams, Berger, Cook all likely fill-ins for injuries)
RP: Wood, Herrman, Allen (could be Shaw, but one of would likely start in CBus), Lee, Sturdevant, A converterted LH starter or two (Packer and Barnes seem likely candidates), Van Mill/Price/Langwell also are options

That's a AAA team with several very good options on the back-burner. Guys are primed to replace some of the question marks (Fedroff for Zeke, Neal for Canzler, McDade for McGuinness, Gomes for either Marson or Chiz), and they should be able to provide the Indians with some options for the rotation should any of those guys fail out. Carrasco could be a mid-season replacement for Ubaldo if need be. Kluber/Barnes/Gomez should be able to fill in for injured players, or replace McAllister if he regresses.

You'd have to get creative and probably delusional to think it's a contender, but the thing I like is that there's nobody on the team that you won't have past 2013 who absolutely could not be replaced.


isn't Gomez out of options?

Also don't forget (although its very easy to) about some of the minor league signings being in the mix at Columbus. infielders Luis Hernandez and Nate Spears and outfielders Matt Carson and Cedric Hunter

I don't think Mark Reynolds will play any 3rd base for Cleveland. Not with Aviles around.


Gomez is out of options. Hermann has 2 left (someone asked about him). Huff is also out of optoins. Carrasco does still have one option left but still think he is a favorite for the rotation. If he has a terrible spring though, nice that he can be sent to AAA.

Zeke is also out of optoins though barring a trade I'd imagine he's the favorite for the 4th OF spot (and probably start as of now).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:57 pm

ironmike wrote:Regarding Drew Stubbs, he has all the talent to be a 5 tool player provided he can put it all together. In 2010 and 2011 he scored more than 90 runs each season which is outstanding. Not many Indians on our roster are capable of that. He steals bases, he's athletic. He could steal more bases with a better on base percentage but you can't steal first base. Stubbs could score more than 100 per season if he makes the necessary adjustments. We shall see.

The big issue, Stubbs could be special if he can cut down on the K's. The Reds could not get him to implement the coaching they preached to him about his plate approach. If the Indians can get through to him regarding, his offensive production would go through the roof to compliment his defensive skill set. If he would adopt the correct two strike approach about hitting the ball hard up the middle, putting the ball in play with two strikes he could improve quickly.

If Stubbs could repeat his 2010 year a team can live with the K's, 168 versus 55 walks in 514 AB's, but not when he hits .213. How many teams in the ML start a CF who hits .213? None. They look to upgrade that position and that is what the Reds did. Stubbs has great talent, but the Reds found him to be his own worst enemy, a hard-head.

Players do change, let's hope Stubbs does in an Indians uniform. If he does, he could be dynamic, otherwise he will disappoint.

PS HAFH - Frank Herrmann has value and shouldn't be DFA'd. He did very well last year in his short stint with the Indians. The knuckle-curve he developed in Columbus last year really helped him.

PPS McAllister averaged almost 8 K's per nine innings, lots of talent, don't overlook him as one of our starting pitchers in 2013.


Where did you see that Stubbs ignored the Reds coaching and wouldn't implement what they preached?

Reds never asked Stubbs to completely change. He is not a 5-tool guy as he will never have a good hit-tool. He's a BJ Upton type when he's on. Not gonna hit above .275 and probably will be in the .240-.250 range, which is fine for CF if you're playing above average defense, hitting 15-20 HRs and stealing 30-40 bases. Just ask the Braves who gave a guy like that $75M.

Reds did ask Stubbs to try swining earlier in the count this year, something he actually did as he saw fewer pitches per at-bat. Still struck out a ton obviously though. Problem wasn't that he wasn't listening to coaches, problem was he just wasn't able to hit. Do think he could bounce back some with a change of scenery. Think he could be a 2.5 WAR guy out of CF, which I'd take. He won't have to hit at the top of the lineup in Cleveland either, which should help him too.


As far as Hermann....he did look good in his short stint but struggled in AAA with a WHIP nearly at 1.4. Did like the K-rate jump down there but nearly 10 hits per 9 innings and a 1.4 HR/9 rate are not something you want from a reliever. Can give you mutlipe innings and has options so would have value stashed in AAA, plus the FO likes him so he could definitely stick around, but don't see him as a huge loss.

I'm excited to see McAllister again this year. That K-rate was nice, but wonder if he will be able to maintin that at the major league level. Only once in his career did he have a mark higher than the 7.9 rate he posted in Cleveland....back in 2007 when he was 19 pitching in low-A ball. I really like him though and think he could be a key to the rotation in that 3/4 spot. Think he could be our new Jake Westbrook....guy that's not flashy but a guy you love having in the middle of a rotation.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:33 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
ironmike wrote:Regarding Drew Stubbs, he has all the talent to be a 5 tool player provided he can put it all together. In 2010 and 2011 he scored more than 90 runs each season which is outstanding. Not many Indians on our roster are capable of that. He steals bases, he's athletic. He could steal more bases with a better on base percentage but you can't steal first base. Stubbs could score more than 100 per season if he makes the necessary adjustments. We shall see.

The big issue, Stubbs could be special if he can cut down on the K's. The Reds could not get him to implement the coaching they preached to him about his plate approach. If the Indians can get through to him regarding, his offensive production would go through the roof to compliment his defensive skill set. If he would adopt the correct two strike approach about hitting the ball hard up the middle, putting the ball in play with two strikes he could improve quickly.

If Stubbs could repeat his 2010 year a team can live with the K's, 168 versus 55 walks in 514 AB's, but not when he hits .213. How many teams in the ML start a CF who hits .213? None. They look to upgrade that position and that is what the Reds did. Stubbs has great talent, but the Reds found him to be his own worst enemy, a hard-head.

Players do change, let's hope Stubbs does in an Indians uniform. If he does, he could be dynamic, otherwise he will disappoint.

PS HAFH - Frank Herrmann has value and shouldn't be DFA'd. He did very well last year in his short stint with the Indians. The knuckle-curve he developed in Columbus last year really helped him.

PPS McAllister averaged almost 8 K's per nine innings, lots of talent, don't overlook him as one of our starting pitchers in 2013.


Where did you see that Stubbs ignored the Reds coaching and wouldn't implement what they preached?

Reds never asked Stubbs to completely change. He is not a 5-tool guy as he will never have a good hit-tool. He's a BJ Upton type when he's on. Not gonna hit above .275 and probably will be in the .240-.250 range, which is fine for CF if you're playing above average defense, hitting 15-20 HRs and stealing 30-40 bases. Just ask the Braves who gave a guy like that $75M.

Reds did ask Stubbs to try swining earlier in the count this year, something he actually did as he saw fewer pitches per at-bat. Still struck out a ton obviously though. Problem wasn't that he wasn't listening to coaches, problem was he just wasn't able to hit. Do think he could bounce back some with a change of scenery. Think he could be a 2.5 WAR guy out of CF, which I'd take. He won't have to hit at the top of the lineup in Cleveland either, which should help him too.


As far as Hermann....he did look good in his short stint but struggled in AAA with a WHIP nearly at 1.4. Did like the K-rate jump down there but nearly 10 hits per 9 innings and a 1.4 HR/9 rate are not something you want from a reliever. Can give you mutlipe innings and has options so would have value stashed in AAA, plus the FO likes him so he could definitely stick around, but don't see him as a huge loss.

I'm excited to see McAllister again this year. That K-rate was nice, but wonder if he will be able to maintin that at the major league level. Only once in his career did he have a mark higher than the 7.9 rate he posted in Cleveland....back in 2007 when he was 19 pitching in low-A ball. I really like him though and think he could be a key to the rotation in that 3/4 spot. Think he could be our new Jake Westbrook....guy that's not flashy but a guy you love having in the middle of a rotation.


Think people get hung up on the strike outs way too much. Choo wasn't exactly Ichiro, but he did hit for a solid enough average, which is a sexy stat for most average fans. Let Stubbs bat 8th or 9th and see what happens when he's not patrolling center field.

With him and Carrera around I really like the OF defense now. Gonna be a lot better than watching Johnny Damon waddle around like a duck or watching Cunningham throw a ball 4 feet into the dirt. Now I did like Duncan but he was simply too inconsistent no matter what it was he was doing.

Agreed that ZMac is a very very valuable pitcher for the Indians, especially out of the 4-5 spots in the rotation. We all know the problem lies with the other guys. We really need Masterson 2011 and perhaps a steady innings eater added. Yes I'm looking at you Edwin Jackson. Hopefully Carrasco comes back solid by around the mid point and can really be ready to go in 2014 and Bauer can get some of the growing pains out of the way.

This is where I wonder if the Indians are done shopping Asrdubal or Perez. I can't see Antonetti now saying ok, we got us a young controllable starter, the rest will work itself out.

I am intrigued with Danny Salazar and Trey Haley as well. We got to see Salazar come on a bit at the end, if he can continue his progression he could be an option down the line as well. I mention Haley cause of his age, and the fact that we have about 800 right handed relievers of varying degrees of potential either close or moving rather quickly through the system. I just wonder if they might make one last attempt with him as a starter.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:37 pm

I disagree somewhat with Jerry Crasnick, while the Tribe doesn't have to move any of these guys I would not be shocked IF ACab or CPerez were traded. The Tribe wanted Bauer and Skaggs which tells me 1. they wanted a steep return 2. they wanted to add a cpl of young controllable options. That tells me IF they could acq. another arm for the rotation they'd probably make the deal. I'd think we could see the Tribe and Cards revisit the a deal involving ACab.

The mkt seems fairly stagnant on CPerez but the Tribe has talked numerous deals with multiple teams and there are still some guys they remain interested in acquiring. It could be the trade deadline before the Tribe actually moves Perez or ACab and they'd likely get as good if not better returns then.

Honestly, I expect to see the Tribe involved in a few more trades althought they may not be on the large scale that we have seen. There are numerous arms in the bullpen, but only a cpl lefties in the pen right now that would be one place I expect the Tribe could move a few pieces from still.

I'm not sure what to make of the news that Swisher isn't close to signing. I'd think he would have his interest down to just a handful of teams. He would be a hard sign but also a coup if they were able to land him.

The Cubs reportedly (hardballtalk) will eat $26 M on Alphonso Soriano's contract as long as the other team send the a legit prospect. Curious if the Tribe would have any interest in Soriano for LF / DH. It would obviously be a back up plan type deal for the Tribe. Brantley could stay in CF and Stubbs could slide over to RF.

There are still numerous options out there for the Tribe to land a RF Cody Ross and Scott Hairston would seemingly be two reachable alternatives to Swisher. Another alternative could be a guy like Ryan Sweeney who would be better suited for a role as a 4th OF. Several prospects the Tribe could possibly target: Puig (Dodgers), Choice (A's), Brentz (Red Sox) and Liriano (Padres).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:38 pm

For what it's worth

@JonHeymanCBS: according to @joeontheradio Angels are in SERIOUS negotiations with Josh Hamilton. also says joe, No deal reached yet.

@JonHeymanCBS: checking on report of @joeontheradio. angels definitely are a stealthy team
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:45 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:I disagree somewhat with Jerry Crasnick, while the Tribe doesn't have to move any of these guys I would not be shocked IF ACab or CPerez were traded. The Tribe wanted Bauer and Skaggs which tells me 1. they wanted a steep return 2. they wanted to add a cpl of young controllable options. That tells me IF they could acq. another arm for the rotation they'd probably make the deal. I'd think we could see the Tribe and Cards revisit the a deal involving ACab.

The mkt seems fairly stagnant on CPerez but the Tribe has talked numerous deals with multiple teams and there are still some guys they remain interested in acquiring. It could be the trade deadline before the Tribe actually moves Perez or ACab and they'd likely get as good if not better returns then.

Honestly, I expect to see the Tribe involved in a few more trades althought they may not be on the large scale that we have seen. There are numerous arms in the bullpen, but only a cpl lefties in the pen right now that would be one place I expect the Tribe could move a few pieces from still.

I'm not sure what to make of the news that Swisher isn't close to signing. I'd think he would have his interest down to just a handful of teams. He would be a hard sign but also a coup if they were able to land him.

The Cubs reportedly (hardballtalk) will eat $26 M on Alphonso Soriano's contract as long as the other team send the a legit prospect. Curious if the Tribe would have any interest in Soriano for LF / DH. It would obviously be a back up plan type deal for the Tribe. Brantley could stay in CF and Stubbs could slide over to RF.

There are still numerous options out there for the Tribe to land a RF Cody Ross and Scott Hairston would seemingly be two reachable alternatives to Swisher. Another alternative could be a guy like Ryan Sweeney who would be better suited for a role as a 4th OF. Several prospects the Tribe could possibly target: Puig (Dodgers), Choice (A's), Brentz (Red Sox) and Liriano (Padres).


I wouldn't be shocked either, but the Indians definitely don't have to do it right now this offseason. Let a market build up at the trade deadline. Its not as if the Indians aren't eventually going to move them, it's just when.

I do believe the Indians are willing to wait on Swisher more so than Youkilis. I agree with Tony that Swishers agent may be trying to build a market that simply isn't there for his client.

I can see the Indians getting a Swisher/Ross type and perhaps a lesser bat that can field a position as well. RF & DH are "open" and I hope the Indians avoid signing someone exclusively to DH. Rotate guys into it. Oakland already plans to use the DH to rotate its outfield crew.
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