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Savy Veteran SP Nominations

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Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby GhostofTedCox » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:59 am

One thing the present administration is relatively good at is finding a veteran SP that can eat innings and hang in there for a while. We've had success with names like Millwood, Pavano, and Lowe.

So you can be sure, with SP being a strong need, they will bring somebody in.

A couple of names that come to mind are Francona's buddies like Matsuzakka and Beckett. Daisuke will be a FA, and the Dodgers might eat some of Beckett's contract.

(I'm not wild about either of these guys, but they came to mind). :neutral Nominations?
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:42 pm

Few guys come to mind.

Guthrie would be a nice vet and showed he can still be effective in KC after being just terrible in Colorado. Not sure how he'd feel about coming back to Cleveland (never heard of any bad blood but never know). May have earned himself a bigger payday though with that KC stint though I personally wouldn't be a fan of giving him more than a year or two even with that.

Speaking of Guthrie, the guy he was dealt for the 2nd time Jonathon Sanchez maybe is an option. Was beyond terrible this year walking over 7 guys per 9...but if you could get him on a minor league deal or something near that, maybe he's a flyer that could work out. May have to look for relief work though with how bad he pitched this year. Also missed the end of the year due to a bicep injury so teams are likely to be doubly scared by him. Probably should stay in the NL but again if he's extremely cheap may be worth a shot.

Brandon McCarthy's injury scare at the end of the year may keep him from getting a long-term deal. He does worry me as he had some big home/road splits the last 2 years in Oakland but his road ERA was under 4 both years (though only 20 starts combined). Did pitch ok as far as Texas pitchers go prior to that too. A better version of Tomlin IMO. Some team though may still give him a multi-year deal (would be a great NL fit IMO).

Kevin Milwood could actually be an option again after a bounceback year in Seattle. Personally would look elsewhere but he'll be looking at a 1 year deal again and shouldn't be expensive. Derek Lowe is also a free agent again...and did play for Francona in 2004, though pretty sure he won't be an option (at least hope not). Colon is probably done after the suspension but did pitch well the year before (when he was supposively not on anything), maybe on a minor league deal give him a look but he like Lowe is really a non-option but an old vet who would be cheap so guess never say never.

On the trade front....I'd give the Angels a call about Dan Haren. Where rumors/speculation this summer that they could decline his $15.5M option ($3.5M buyout). He had a very good second half so wouldn't think they'd still do it but lots of money tied up on that team and if they want to bring back Greinke they may look to move on from Haren. If they pick it up though (think they will/should), they could be willing to eat a bit of money ($3.5-5M or so) and trade him. He wouldn't be a bad 1 year option for the Tribe assuming they didn't give up a ton. I'm sure lots of teams will have this same idea but Haren definitely had a down year so value will be down too. Maybe you try to expand it too and open talks about Morales who showed he is healthy and can handle a full year.

And staying with the Angels...Ervin Santana also has a rather large option of $13M ($1M buyout) for next year. Very rough year and he's the one more likely to be let go. May have to accept a 1 year deal to rebuild his value. And if the Angels did pick up his option, could be a guy to go after in a trade as well. Would have to think the Angels would be willing to include some cash there even moreso than Haren.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:51 pm

Hermie.. of the names you've listed.. the return of Guthrie would make the most sense. McCarthy is a pass.. Millwood is a run away before sending an anonymous text indicating a pass.. The comment about a possible trade by the Angels for one of Haren or Santana would be okay.

In that same light.. why not have the Indians and the Rays get together for a trade.. The Rays are desperate for a SS..the Indians have one that can be part of a slightly bigger trade:

Rays get: Asdrubal Cabrera, Chun-hsui Chen & LeVon Washington
Indians get: James Shields & Mickey Mahtook

Droobs would fit the bill for an offensive SS that can also play some 2B (if Hak-ju Lee is ready) & is under control for two more years at a reasonable price. The Rays have wanted LeVon Washington for quite some time & Chun Chen as a 1B/C is a fine addition to any club... The Indians would get the SP they're looking for (from August onward, Shields was as good as ANY SP in the AL) while the Rays would be shedding payroll for a player they would ultimately lose after the 2013 season, anyway. Mickey Mahtook is a pretty good player, but a way's off, just like LeVon..

Other FA's that might be of interest:

Anibal Sanchez: 28.. his price continues to rise.. perhaps too much for the Indians..
Edwin Jackson.. 29.. big arm to go with a big pay day?
Carlos Villanueve.. also 29 and did kind of stink it up down the stretch in the AL East...

thoughts?...
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:55 pm

I think guys like Joe Blanton, Jeremy Guthrie, Anibal Sanchez, Edwin Jackson, Francisco Liriano, Joe Saunders, Shaun Marcum, Carlos Villanueva, Brandon McCarthy, Ervin Santana, Jonathon Sanchez, Jorge DelaRosa and Dan Haren will be offseason targets. I think all of these guys will fall within the price range of the Tribe, but a few (Marcum, ASanchez, Jackson) may be at the high end of the Tribes comfort zone.

Also, I've heard some rumors that Derek Holland and Jon Niese will be available in the right type of deals. I think it would take some sort of Choo and Smith type deal to get either.

I could see the Tribe trying to play it safe and offer deals to two of these guys, something like...

Joe Blanton-RHSP 2yrs $16 mil w/ 3rd yr option
Francisco Liriano-LHSP 2yrs $16 mil w/ 3rd yr option
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby daingean » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:13 pm

I wouldn't be thrilled with a Jair Jurjens. Since his all-star appearance in 2011 he's not been very good or durable. But it appears he will be available as I do not think the Braves will want to offer him arby.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:09 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Hermie.. of the names you've listed.. the return of Guthrie would make the most sense. McCarthy is a pass.. Millwood is a run away before sending an anonymous text indicating a pass.. The comment about a possible trade by the Angels for one of Haren or Santana would be okay.

In that same light.. why not have the Indians and the Rays get together for a trade.. The Rays are desperate for a SS..the Indians have one that can be part of a slightly bigger trade:

Rays get: Asdrubal Cabrera, Chun-hsui Chen & LeVon Washington
Indians get: James Shields & Mickey Mahtook

Droobs would fit the bill for an offensive SS that can also play some 2B (if Hak-ju Lee is ready) & is under control for two more years at a reasonable price. The Rays have wanted LeVon Washington for quite some time & Chun Chen as a 1B/C is a fine addition to any club... The Indians would get the SP they're looking for (from August onward, Shields was as good as ANY SP in the AL) while the Rays would be shedding payroll for a player they would ultimately lose after the 2013 season, anyway. Mickey Mahtook is a pretty good player, but a way's off, just like LeVon..

Other FA's that might be of interest:

Anibal Sanchez: 28.. his price continues to rise.. perhaps too much for the Indians..
Edwin Jackson.. 29.. big arm to go with a big pay day?
Carlos Villanueve.. also 29 and did kind of stink it up down the stretch in the AL East...

thoughts?...


To clarify, I was more just throwing out guys that fit the Milwood, Pavano, or Lowe type of signing/acquisitions, not necessarily guys I truly want to get. Not really a big fan of getting Guthrie to be honest. I know he was good in KC but never was a huge fan of him in Baltimore. Would still be an upgrade for us but worry that he may get overpaid based off his strong finish.

I left off guys like Sanchez and Jackson because I think they'll be highly sought guys who will get multiple years and big money. I would love to get either (especially Jackson) but dont' view them as that vet, inning eater starter like Ghost was saying. I think most of the guys I mentioned would sign for 1 year (or have 1 year left on their deals). I'd personally have no problem giving a guy like Edwin Jackson 3 years, though I may be in the minority there.

I mentioned an Asdrubal for Shields deal earlier too. I really don't think it will happen but personally it's something I'd consider. Definitely need to have some kind of backup plan for SS as no one on this club other than AC should be starting but a few trade options out there. One big issues with an AC for Shields trade could be the other SS's that are rumored to be on the block. The Rangers could undercut such a trade (if the Tribe even considered it) and offer Andrus who just to me seems more like a Rays type of player than AC. Again though, I wouldn't be upset with a deal that was centered on AC and Shields. Big Shields fan and would love having him as our Ace for the next 2 years. Shields though is a guy that I also left out cause I don't think he fits the bill of a Milwood, pavano, or Lowe veteran acquistiions to eat innings. He's a bonafide #1/2 starter.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:15 pm

daingean wrote:I wouldn't be thrilled with a Jair Jurjens. Since his all-star appearance in 2011 he's not been very good or durable. But it appears he will be available as I do not think the Braves will want to offer him arby.


I think Jurjens is definitely a guy to include on a Tribe list. Not someone to get excited about and been terrible of late, but if non-tendered could come pretty cheap or at least base salary cheap (throw in some inning/start bonuses). Fits that Milwood/Pavano type IMO.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:01 pm

There's a cpl other arms the Tribe could kick around... Daisuke Matsusaka and Scott Baker, both coming off arm injuries. They could be low salary incentive laden 1 or 2 yr deals.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:08 pm

.....To clarify, I was more just throwing out guys that fit the Milwood, Pavano, or Lowe type of signing/acquisitions, not necessarily guys I truly want....


Ah.. I see.. you mean the names of the named players are just types of names that aren't actually names that you'd name to the starting pitching staff, specifically, but would name them to the staff in name only..

Gotcha.. thanks for clearing that up... :rolleyes
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:26 pm

...rumors that Derek Holland and Jon Niese will be available in the right type of deals. I think it would take some sort of Choo and Smith type deal...


Would love to see Derek Holland with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.. You may be right about needing to include Choo. Truth be known, I would have thought a combination of Chris Perez and someone would fit the Rangers needs as they may still intend to have Neftali Feliz become a starter especially if they're moving Holland..

The other factor with the Rangers will depend on what they're going to do with Josh Hamilton.. This is where the down fall of Alex Rodriguez that played out before our eyes truly comes to the fore front of GM thinking.. The Yankees are now saddled with a five year $ 114 MM contract plus incentives (home run milestones, specifically) that could make ARod the absolute worst deal ever contemplated in the history of baseball deals.. It all stems from the length of the contract.. Josh Hamilton, who has all the issues of any player you can name..will, no doubt, be looking for that "huge" pay day for both dollar value and length. Any GM who isn't seeing what is happening with Arod & Vernon Wells & Travis Hafner & _________ (<== fill in with name of the worst contract on your team).. has to be OUT OF THEIR COLLECTIVE MINDS to pay these guys for both the annual dollar amount and length of contracts being bandied about.. Choo to the Rangers?..makes sense if Josh Hamilton's representation decides that Josh is deserving of a contract length of seven or ten years.. Stupid should only be tolerated for three or four years and a club option..

W/R to Niese, aside from not being a fan, the Mets would be out of their mind to trade him. A lefty who throws strikes coming off his best season as a ML'er?. He's not going anywhere..
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:21 pm

I thought those two names were specifically interesting considering the lack of a lefty in the rotation. I think the Tribe will try to add at least one lefty to the rotation this offseason. They could come in the shape of Liriano, Saunders and DelaRosa. I know the Tribe has had specific interest in Liriano in the past.
IF Holland or Niese are available the Tribe should certainly pursue them. Personally I'd prefer Holland, if the Tribe could get him for Perez I'd love it. Of course Choo would only be an option if they don't re sign Hamilton. I could see a willingness to move on from both sides, but I'm saying it will come down to the length of the deal. Hamilton has been a great story until some recent struggles, he is the star of FA and his location will certainly affect the whole mkt. hopefully the Tribe is ble to settle their own issues without being caught in a holding pattern by the Hamilton romance saga that will develop this offseason.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby BrianM » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:39 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Would love to see Derek Holland with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve.


Agreed. 4 years, 26 mil left on his contract.
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Re: Savy Veteran SP Nominations

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:07 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
.....To clarify, I was more just throwing out guys that fit the Milwood, Pavano, or Lowe type of signing/acquisitions, not necessarily guys I truly want....


Ah.. I see.. you mean the names of the named players are just types of names that aren't actually names that you'd name to the starting pitching staff, specifically, but would name them to the staff in name only..

Gotcha.. thanks for clearing that up... :rolleyes


No, these named players are guys I think fit the bill of savy, veterans that fit the Milwood/Pavano/Lowe mold, which was what this thread was about. The guys I mentioned are all the kind of players/moves the Tribe has gone after in the past. Can throw a guy like Kevin Slowey in there too. Who wanted that guy last winter? Not many, yet the Tribe made a move to get him hoping he could provide some innings and regain some of his effectiveness (they were wrong). Trying to remember the last time the Indians signed a free agent starter to multiple years...
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