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Ubaldo

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Ubaldo

Postby indians1 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:20 pm

The man is topping out at 90 MPH and is a mess. I hope he can pull of a cliff lee( he had a terrible spring training the year he won the cy young), but there has to be major worries about his control and his head.

His control is no better than last year and he is proving to have no composure. Pomeranz is nearly major league ready and alex white could be a very good bullpen guy. I am not saying the trade is a bust, but antonetti and shapiro have to be sweating it out every time ubaldo pitches.

I said it last year and i think the trade has the potential to be a carlos gonzales/ matt holiday trade. Colorado traded for gonzales from the A's (same scenario). Gonzales was a year a way and the A's thought they were ready to compete now. How has that trade worked out for oakland?

When you have gems, you can't trade them away for guys that are no sure thing. ubaldo had a lot of question marks and we gave colorado a big lefty that throws 95-96 mph and has excellent control. Alex white may end up being a really good reliever which is what he was projected coming out of the draft.

Time will tell, but going into the season, the indians have to be sweating bullets. Their season hinges on whether ubaldo solidifies the rotation or takes the team down like he did last august when he pitched horrible against detroit and started the slide out of contention
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby go_tribe » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:32 am

All I know is Jim Tracy calling Ubaldo gutless after a harmless act, especially considering Ubaldo was willing to throw down with Tulo, is one of the dumbest things ever said. This is baseball moron, even if he threw at his head, not like it hasn't happened a million times before.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:27 pm

Big difference between the Carlos Gonzalez-Matt Holliday deal was that Holliday only had 1 year left on his deal, whereas Ubaldo had 2.5 left.

Ubaldo's also been topping out higher than 90 as of late (was regularly hitting 92 the other day). That was a report from about 2 weeks ago. There definitely should be some concern for the Indians though with Ubaldo. He does need a good year for the Tribe to compete. Then again, had we not made the trade we'd be counting on Derek Lowe to be our #2 starter. Think Ubaldo can bounce back and at least be a 2/3 starter this year.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby indians1 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:11 pm

All i know is that the two pieces we shipped off to colorado are going to pitch in the majors this year. Maybe pomeranz doesn't become a top pitcher this year or even next year.

But we made this trade for one reason, to compete last year and the next couple of seasons while we still have choo, masterson, perez, cabrera, and hafner. This was the core that they wanted to compete with.

If ubaldo does not pitch well this year, then this trade was a disaster because we gutted our farm system and we are paying more for one pitcher than we would have 3 or 4, Alex white may end up being a good reliever, but pomeranz is the prize and a big lefty that throws 95-96 and can strike guys out still makes me shake my head.

You have to wonder about the indians management who overvalued the talent on this team right now. Who do we have? We have santana-as a sure thing on offense. We don't know what kipnis will give us. Cabrera came in overweight. choo was bad last year- chisenhall- can't even beat out hannahan. Who knows if masterson can duplicate another season like he did last year.
There are and were too many ifs on this team to make a trade like this, and the indians may have set themselves back further with the trade.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:47 am

indians1 wrote:If ubaldo does not pitch well this year, then this trade was a disaster because we gutted our farm system...


Indians traded Pomeranz (a future 2, 3 starter) and a bullpen arm for a pitcher who was once an Ace and has the potential to return to that status. I'm not sure how that really "gutted" the system, but if Pomeranz was the only hope in the system to begin with, then the Indians would have been in trouble with or without him.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:08 am

Magneticnorth451 wrote:
indians1 wrote:If ubaldo does not pitch well this year, then this trade was a disaster because we gutted our farm system...


Indians traded Pomeranz (a future 2, 3 starter) and a bullpen arm for a pitcher who was once an Ace and has the potential to return to that status. I'm not sure how that really "gutted" the system, but if Pomeranz was the only hope in the system to begin with, then the Indians would have been in trouble with or without him.


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Re: Ubaldo

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm

I hated to see the Tribe give up both White and Pomeranz in the same deal, but the truth is you never know with prospects. Gardner another piece of the puzzle here could actually find himself in the ML one day too. Plain and simple the fact is after Whites finger injury he didn't seem the same and has probably ended up where he would have anyways, a bullpen arm. I'm not saying that's of no value, but starting pitchers with Jimenez ability are rare. Pomeranz may exceed Jimenez as far as stats go but Jimenez is a proven frontline starter Pomeranz for now a developing 2/3.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby Rocky55 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:04 pm

"chisenhall-can't even beat out Hanahan.".

I love people bailing on Chiz at age 23 heading to AAA. I've been reading a lot of this lately & conisder it BS.

There's a thread on this board about Joey Votto, who spent basically his whole age 23 season in Louisville(AAA), hardly tearing up the league with a .859OPS with 110K's. This while playing an offense first position. Two yrs. later Votto's the NL MVP.

Kip finished his age 23 season with a half season in Akron. He ended the season with 107K's in 500AB in Kinston & Akron. Two yrs. later Kipnis has won the starting job at 2B & is expected to be a big contributor this year.

I'm sure that almost countless similar comps exist, with as many examples of careers that have headed in the other direction from this point.

Let's give Chiz a couple of years before we call "bust" on him. Let's make our case against the Ubaldo trade, if we must, without grasping at straws & dragging 23 yr old, still viable prospects into the argument.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby daingean » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:22 pm

Rocky55 wrote:"chisenhall-can't even beat out Hanahan.".

I love people bailing on Chiz at age 23 heading to AAA. I've been reading a lot of this lately & conisder it BS.

There's a thread on this board about Joey Votto, who spent basically his whole age 23 season in Louisville(AAA), hardly tearing up the league with a .859OPS with 110K's. This while playing an offense first position. Two yrs. later Votto's the NL MVP.

Kip finished his age 23 season with a half season in Akron. He ended the season with 107K's in 500AB in Kinston & Akron. Two yrs. later Kipnis has won the starting job at 2B & is expected to be a big contributor this year.

I'm sure that almost countless similar comps exist, with as many examples of careers that have headed in the other direction from this point.

Let's give Chiz a couple of years before we call "bust" on him. Let's make our case against the Ubaldo trade, if we must, without grasping at straws & dragging 23 yr old, still viable prospects into the argument.


+1 I was certainly hoping the Chiz would have won the position because this team needs offense but Chiz didn't and needs more seasoning at AAA...people need to remember even Albert Belle and Jim Thome were both called up early and had to be sent down before they came back up to stay.
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Re: Ubaldo

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:21 pm

Yeah let's not forget that Kipnis is a full 18 months younger than Jason Kipnis. Not winning a job now is not a huge deal. Sure we could have forced him on to the roster....which is what the Tribe sort of did with Brandon Phillips (John McDonald had a very solid spring that year).

Not saying the Tribe screwed up either as I understand why they did it...but they really did Chiz a disservice by calling him up when they did last year. He was still struggling at times in AAA with just over 2 months worth of at-bats there. Had the Tribe not been fighting to stay ahead of the Tigers there is no way Chiz is called up when he was.

Hopefully he can settle in this year and get back on track. Very young as others have said and just needs time. Not the first guy to need a tunep. I'll throw in Asdrubal who needed to be sent back down in 2008 for a bit due to some struggles.
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