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trades

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:52 pm

Lets keep this to talking about deals that have happened, and discussing them this is a rumor free zone.

Today the tigers got better added Wilson Betemit from KC who was the best 3B in many peoples eyes on the market. When you consider how bad Inge was this is a pretty big improvement for the the Tigres. Got to like it from the Tigers end two meh specs for a guy who can help
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:05 pm

jellis wrote:Lets keep this to talking about deals that have happened, and discussing them this is a rumor free zone.

Today the tigers got better added Wilson Betemit from KC who was the best 3B in many peoples eyes on the market. When you consider how bad Inge was this is a pretty big improvement for the the Tigres. Got to like it from the Tigers end two meh specs for a guy who can help


Yes.. Betemit is a vastly superior player to Brandon Inge with the bat, not so much with the leather. Inge's range is highly suspect at 3B..

The prospects that the Tigers surrendered, Antonio Cruz, a 19 year old left handed pitcher that has spent three relatively insignificant years in the Tigers system, and Julio Rodriguez, a 21 year old catcher that has been in the Tigers system for five relatively unspectacular years, would have to get a lot better to get all the way up to "meh"..

A fine trade for the Tigers.. they can use Betemit in several spots...
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Re: trades

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:44 pm

The first domino falls. Let's see if the Indians answer.
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Re: trades

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:06 pm

Jeff Keppinger went to SF yesterday.

Betemit is a solid add for the tigres.
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Re: trades

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:53 pm

Rumor has the Tribe interested in Coco Crisp (via Heyman).

Was consdiering him a week or so ago....overall he's been bad this year and isn't hitting lefties, but been getting on base lately (OBP is .360 over the last month). If he doesn't cost much not a terrible move. Would prefer a bigger bat though.
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Re: trades

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:33 pm

jellis wrote:Lets keep this to talking about deals that have happened, and discussing them this is a rumor free zone.
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Re: trades

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:21 pm

Nationals have acq. Jonny Gomes-OF from Reds for minor leaguers Chris Manno-LHP (26th rd drft pk '10) has 14+k/9 as a reliever, yet to appear above A-ball and Bill Rhinehart-OF.
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Re: trades

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:51 pm

The Blue Jays acquired starter Edwin Jackson and third baseman Mark Teahen from the White Sox for reliever Jason Frasor and starter Zach Stewart.

Sounds like it's a near lock too that Jackson is going to the Cards for Rasmus (w/ Dotel and Rzepczynski going to the Cards as well)
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:39 pm

Looks like the SF Giants are going to acquire Carlos Beltran & cash ($ 4 MM) for Zach Wheeler. There may be another prospect involved, but no mention of it..
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

I think the realization needs to be made that we are not contenders at this point. From a record standpoint we still are, but that looks to be changing really fast unless we start getting some consistent offense.

Even if we make a trade, it isn't going to be a middle of the order guy that changes a lineup. When hafner was going well from 2005-07, he changed a lineup. When grady and victor were going well, they changed a lineup.

Right now we don't have one impact guy in our lineup. Carlos Santana has a long way to go before he is an elite player. He may draw alot of walks, but he overswings and strikes out a ton. He has to improve a lot because the trade for casey blake still favors the dodgers. Blake has had some really productive years there and he is starting to finally show is age.

I think we need to let guys like chisenhall, kipnis, and santana take their lumps and be ready for next year. I am not giving up on this year but i am trying to be realistic. Grady and hafner either can't stay healthy or can't produce consistently. Choo, Santana, and Laporta have vastly underachieved. Those 3 guys are the ones we needed to emerge this year and set the foundation for the next few years in the way victor, grady and hafner did so in 2004 and 2005.
Laporta looks no better than a year ago, Choo has regressed, and Santana does not look the the steal that we thought we were getting from a few years ago. If those 3 guys were hitting, i would say by all means make a trade. Santana is hitting .220-230. Choo is injured and has been horrible before his injury. Laporta is a bust.

That minnesota loss last week where we blew the 1-0 lead really shook this team. They have not recovered from that loss.
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Re: trades

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:04 pm

indians1 wrote:Right now we don't have one impact guy in our lineup. Carlos Santana has a long way to go before he is an elite player. He may draw alot of walks, but he overswings and strikes out a ton. He has to improve a lot because the trade for casey blake still favors the dodgers. Blake has had some really productive years there and he is starting to finally show is age.

I'll keep this short so that we don't wander too far off from the point of this thread, but the only thing Cleveland gave up there was the remaining 2+ months (& salary) of Blake's contract. I'd do that deal again in a heartbeat... over and over and over again. That deal doesn't (and never did) favor the Dodgers.
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:51 pm

I am not saying i wouldn't do the santana deal again. All i am saying is that he is far from an elite player and usually elite players start establishing themselves by their 2nd or 3rd year. Santana is a guy that is supposed to be a victor martinez clone except with more power and athletic ability.

I don't understand why people on this board get so protective or even defensive when we point out fact. grady sizemore was supposed to be the greatest or one of the greatest players of this generation. He had a few good years and then plateaued. Soon after, injuries followed.

My biggest point is that we need santana, laporta, chisenhall, kipnis to be special players. That is how small market teams compete year in and year out. They have impact guys in their linuep and on the mound. You can't just have above average-good players to win consistently.

It may too much to ask kipnis and chisenhall to be big contributors this year but santana and laporta have been here for a couple of years and they are nowhere close to what they were projected. It's early for santana still but laporta is a bust. We can't afford to miss on centerpieces of trades.
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Re: trades

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:04 pm

indians1 wrote:I don't understand why people on this board get so protective or even defensive when we point out fact.

Anytime you want to start using facts is fine with me. I'll point out a few for you:

Carlos Santana as an Indian: .237/.369/.432 • .802 OPS • 125 OPS+
Casey Blake as a Dodger: .259/.338/.435 • .773 OPS • 109 OPS+

Not only is Santana a better player, but he's younger, cheaper, plays a more demanding position (and it could be argued it's in the more difficult league), and is under team control for several more years. Blake was a free agent a little more than 2 months after Cleveland traded him, so really what he's done since 2008 should have no bearing on the deal anyway. Whether you're personally disappointed in Santana or not, saying the deal favors the Dodgers is flat out comical.
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:48 am

entertheshoe wrote:
jellis wrote:Lets keep this to talking about deals that have happened, and discussing them this is a rumor free zone.


Trades that have gone down in 2011 guys.. I'm sure there are other venues to discuss older trades (The MIghty Casey Blake/Carlos "black magic woman" Santana Trade).. this isn't the place..
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:09 am

Here's the further details of the trade involving the CWSox, Cardinals and Blue Jays:

The Blue Jays get: Colby Rasmus, Mark Teahen, Trever Miller, Brian Tallet & PJ Walters

Comment: Rasmus brings a reputation for not getting along with the overly intense Tony LaRussa along with tremendous athleticism and high upside. The addition of Teahen gives the Jays an under achieving corner IF'er that may be better suited to the turf at the Roger's Center. Brian Tallet returns to the Jays, where he's had success. Trever Miller and PJ Walters are roster fodder, no more, no less..

The Cardinals get: Edwin Jackson, Marc Rzepczynski, Octavio Dotel, Corey Patterson & 3 PTBNL or cash

Comment: The Cardinal's acquisition of starting pitcher, Edwin Jackson signals an "all in" approach to the 2011 season. The Cardinals also received "ready to play right now" relievers in Dotel and Zippy the toothless reliever. Corey Patterson will be able to fill the fourth outfielder role for the remainder of the 2011 season. The added PTBNL's may be cash.. may be 2010 draftee's, may be taken from a list of players the Cardinals will scout over the next sixty days. The Cardinals are a MUCH better team today than yesterday because of this trade. Tomorrow.. is another story..

The CWSox get Zach Stewart & Jason Frasor

Comment: Could signal the start of another Kenny Williams fire sale. Zach Stewart, upon being traded was immediately optioned to AAA leaving Jason Frasor as the remnants on the ML roster from the trade. The CWSox are clearly damaged or are weakened by the loss of their innings eating starting pitcher, Edlose Jackson. Unless KW has a hat with a rabbit in it.. this trade makes no sense for the CWSox going forward in the 2011 season..

Your comments will be appreciated..
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Re: trades

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:11 am

Tigers get Doug Fister..... no details confirmed yet of who goes the other way but, a done deal.

EDIT: Tigers get Fister and David Pauley for Furbush, Casper Wells and more.
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Re: trades

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:14 am

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Tigers get Doug Fister..... no details confirmed yet of who goes the other way but, a done deal.

EDIT: Tigers get Fister and David Pauley for Furbush, Casper Wells and more.


SI_JonHeyman: looks like multi player trade. hearing pauley comes w/ fister to #tigers. furbush, wells, plus to #m's
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Re: trades

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:15 am

While the Fister deal is solid for the Tigers, it's also, in some ways, good news.. one less team bidding against us for Ubaldo.
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Re: trades

Postby jellis » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:35 am

A.Zajac wrote:While the Fister deal is solid for the Tigers, it's also, in some ways, good news.. one less team bidding against us for Ubaldo.

Fister is a very solid pitcher, a big upgrade over what they were trotting out every 5 days he could net them 3 to 4 wins just because there 5th SP was just about a guaranteed loss
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Re: trades

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:20 pm

A big shift in philosophy from the Tigers...... trading a Furbush for a Fister!!!
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Re: trades

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:28 pm

I thought this was a pretty even trade when I first heard about it. Now that I hear the PTBNL might be either Nick Castellanos or Chance Ruffin, it does not seem so even. Both Fister and Pauley should help the Tigers but the toll on an already weak organization seems to magnify the credo that Detroit is willing to expend whatever they must to compete. I know their revenues are far greater than the Indians but I still have to think that has a cost eventually. The Tigers are not the Yankees, Red Sox or Phillies.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby hoof32 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:32 pm

Tom Hamilton reports that Drew Pomeranz pulled from start in Akron tonight.

Like this is news to anyone here.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby hoof32 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm

Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:59 pm

Who are the indians kidding? Look at their lineup. They are not one player away. How does Jimenez help them with their inept offense.?

The indians are a small market team who cannot afford to be wrong on trades like these. Pomeranz is a big lefty who could be in the majors next year. This is a move of desperation and it is one that the indians will end up regretting especially if jimenez doesn't deliver this year.

The one thing i don't understand is if pomeranz is the guy, why would he get pulled tonight if he can't be dealt until august 16th. Is he not going to pitch for 2 weeks? Usually PTBNL continue playing.
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Re: trades

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:03 pm

indians1 wrote:Who are the indians kidding? Look at their lineup. They are not one player away. How does Jimenez help them with their inept offense.?

The indians are a small market team who cannot afford to be wrong on trades like these. Pomeranz is a big lefty who could be in the majors next year. This is a move of desperation and it is one that the indians will end up regretting especially if jimenez doesn't deliver this year.

The one thing i don't understand is if pomeranz is the guy, why would he get pulled tonight if he can't be dealt until august 16th. Is he not going to pitch for 2 weeks? Usually PTBNL continue playing.


I'm not a huge fan of this deal. But why does Jimenez have to deliver this year? He is under team control thru 2013....same as AC and Choo.
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:14 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indians1 wrote:Who are the indians kidding? Look at their lineup. They are not one player away. How does Jimenez help them with their inept offense.?

The indians are a small market team who cannot afford to be wrong on trades like these. Pomeranz is a big lefty who could be in the majors next year. This is a move of desperation and it is one that the indians will end up regretting especially if jimenez doesn't deliver this year.

The one thing i don't understand is if pomeranz is the guy, why would he get pulled tonight if he can't be dealt until august 16th. Is he not going to pitch for 2 weeks? Usually PTBNL continue playing.


I'm not a huge fan of this deal. But why does Jimenez have to deliver this year? He is under team control thru 2013....same as AC and Choo.


Because, White and pomeranz should be ready to contribute next year, so what is the point of making this deal if jimenez doesn't help you win this year. You have him for 2 more years after this. I wouldn't mind this deal if it were white and chisenhall and mcbride. I just don't think you trade a big power throwing lefty who has #1 =front of the rotation stuff.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby indians1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:16 pm

hoof32 wrote:Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:

ubaldo is pitching tonight and gave up 2 runs and 4 hits in the first inning.

His ERA is now 4.46. We are going to give 2 big prospects for that. We are getting taken by a team that should not hold all the cards. I think the indians are negotiating on this trade the way obama is negotiating in the debt ceiling talks. They are both getting taken.
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Re: trades

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:18 pm

indians1 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
indians1 wrote:Who are the indians kidding? Look at their lineup. They are not one player away. How does Jimenez help them with their inept offense.?

The indians are a small market team who cannot afford to be wrong on trades like these. Pomeranz is a big lefty who could be in the majors next year. This is a move of desperation and it is one that the indians will end up regretting especially if jimenez doesn't deliver this year.

The one thing i don't understand is if pomeranz is the guy, why would he get pulled tonight if he can't be dealt until august 16th. Is he not going to pitch for 2 weeks? Usually PTBNL continue playing.


I'm not a huge fan of this deal. But why does Jimenez have to deliver this year? He is under team control thru 2013....same as AC and Choo.


Because, White and pomeranz should be ready to contribute next year, so what is the point of making this deal if jimenez doesn't help you win this year. You have him for 2 more years after this. I wouldn't mind this deal if it were white and chisenhall and mcbride. I just don't think you trade a big power throwing lefty who has #1 =front of the rotation stuff.


Well we'll have to agree to disagree there. Losing Chiz would be more devastating IMO. I agree, don't like losing Pom, but Pom won't be a star til at best 2013...and that's pushing it. I do think Pom is going to end up being a true Ace and better than Ubaldo, but will take a lil while. Hate giving him up, I'm with you there....but if Jimenez helps you win any time during his contract then it could be worth it...

Still not a fan of it as I'm not convinced Ubaldo is completely healthy.
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Re: trades

Postby criznit2009 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:22 pm

pretty steep price... All 3 were my top 3 SP propsects to start the year......Hope it pays off, a lot to give up Colorado should be very happy.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby entertheshoe » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:24 pm

indians1 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:

ubaldo is pitching tonight and gave up 2 runs and 4 hits in the first inning.

His ERA is now 4.46. We are going to give 2 big prospects for that. We are getting taken by a team that should not hold all the cards. I think the indians are negotiating on this trade the way obama is negotiating in the debt ceiling talks. They are both getting taken.


Meh, tough situation to pitch in right there. Take that start with a grain of salt, which is apparently the opposite of what you're doing.
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:28 pm

I am amazed how teams like boston, philiadelphia, and new york always manage to dictate the terms and never give up too much or never include their very top prospects in deals. They didn't do it when they traded for cliff lee.They put a line in the sand and only gave up kyle drabek in the the halliday trade.

Why did the indians include both. I was fine with them including alex white in the deal. I don't think you should include both.
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Re: trades

Postby entertheshoe » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:45 pm

indians1 wrote:I am amazed how teams like boston, philiadelphia, and new york always manage to dictate the terms and never give up too much or never include their very top prospects in deals. They didn't do it when they traded for cliff lee.They put a line in the sand and only gave up kyle drabek in the the halliday trade.

Why did the indians include both. I was fine with them including alex white in the deal. I don't think you should include both.


Terrible comparison. If Cliff Lee or CC or Halliday had 3-4 years left on their deals, you can bet your sweet ass that they would have gotten a helluvalot more. Get real man.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:57 pm

indians1 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:

ubaldo is pitching tonight and gave up 2 runs and 4 hits in the first inning.

His ERA is now 4.46. We are going to give 2 big prospects for that. We are getting taken by a team that should not hold all the cards. I think the indians are negotiating on this trade the way obama is negotiating in the debt ceiling talks. They are both getting taken.


I agree that it's a steep price, but are you really citing his ERA? I mean, you can't, won't or don't look beyond those numbers?
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Re: uh-oh

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:03 pm

JP_Frost wrote:
indians1 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:

ubaldo is pitching tonight and gave up 2 runs and 4 hits in the first inning.

His ERA is now 4.46. We are going to give 2 big prospects for that. We are getting taken by a team that should not hold all the cards. I think the indians are negotiating on this trade the way obama is negotiating in the debt ceiling talks. They are both getting taken.


I agree that it's a steep price, but are you really citing his ERA? I mean, you can't, won't or don't look beyond those numbers?


If the trade is official (sounds it) then his ERA is actually 0.00 now isn't? :s_tongue
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Re: trades

Postby indians1 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:08 pm

If the deal goes down, this is a very ballsy move by the FO.

I am encouraged that the indians are being aggressive, but this means that they have to continue being very aggressive in the draft if they are going to make deals like this.

The one thing that makes you wonder about this deal is if the indians FO started thinking pomeranz was a lot further away than they thought.

I can remember early on in the season, we kept hearing that pomeranz was going to get promoted to AA in may and it didn't happen until July. I know he has relied on his fastball alot and maybe the indians saw him as somebody that was actually progressing slower than alex white did last year and they felt if they can get a guy with All-star stuff, then they should do the deal.

I don't know. I hope they are right on this deal and it works out for them. If he doesn't pan out, this could be a move that sets this organization back big time.
I will say this, mark shapiro always treated his prospects like they were gold and overvalued them. I hope antonetti knows what he is doing and will be able to replenish the farm system with top pitching prospects again.
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Re: uh-oh

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:10 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:
indians1 wrote:
hoof32 wrote:Jon Heyman tweets: 'ubaldo was scratched. looks like a deal.' :bad:

ubaldo is pitching tonight and gave up 2 runs and 4 hits in the first inning.

His ERA is now 4.46. We are going to give 2 big prospects for that. We are getting taken by a team that should not hold all the cards. I think the indians are negotiating on this trade the way obama is negotiating in the debt ceiling talks. They are both getting taken.


I agree that it's a steep price, but are you really citing his ERA? I mean, you can't, won't or don't look beyond those numbers?


If the trade is official (sounds it) then his ERA is actually 0.00 now isn't? :s_tongue


In the AL it is.

I have some reservations about Jimenez in terms of his velocity and moving out of the NL West. That said, for what he's done, he's dirt cheap the coming years and he's still having a very good season (forget ERA). White and Pom is alot to give up and I have to wait and see how it pays off, but it's not a bad deal on papaer (though I'd rather offer White, Pomeranz, Gardner and McBride to every team and see which top hitter I could get).
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Re: trades

Postby ndog » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:14 pm

I was surprised that Pom and White were both included. The price seems steep but Ubaldo does have 3 years left on his current deal.

Tony is right though, we have to sign Howard and Peters now.
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Re: trades

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:15 pm

indians1 wrote:If the deal goes down, this is a very ballsy move by the FO.

I am encouraged that the indians are being aggressive, but this means that they have to continue being very aggressive in the draft if they are going to make deals like this.

The one thing that makes you wonder about this deal is if the indians FO started thinking pomeranz was a lot further away than they thought.

I can remember early on in the season, we kept hearing that pomeranz was going to get promoted to AA in may and it didn't happen until July. I know he has relied on his fastball alot and maybe the indians saw him as somebody that was actually progressing slower than alex white did last year and they felt if they can get a guy with All-star stuff, then they should do the deal.

I don't know. I hope they are right on this deal and it works out for them. If he doesn't pan out, this could be a move that sets this organization back big time.
I will say this, mark shapiro always treated his prospects like they were gold and overvalued them. I hope antonetti knows what he is doing and will be able to replenish the farm system with top pitching prospects again.


Signing our draft picks would certainly help, though none are on the level of Pomeranz.

I agree with what you say. It's an aggressive strategy and shows some cojones, but you need to accompany that with a sound draft philosophy as well realizing what your window of oppurtunity is in the majors. Locking up ACab would help and certainly look for some kind of bat at either 1st or OF (whether it be via free agency, draft or trade doesn't matter).
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Re: trades

Postby El Em » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:28 pm

I realize that we are all posting on the Prospect Insider, and that we all have a semi-aberrant interest in our Minor Leaguers, but even possessing that mind set, I am very excited by this deal. I believe Ubaldo to be an elite Major League pitcher, with a very reasonable price tag over the next few years. I hate losing Pom, but he is still far away from the status of Jimenez. He may eventually pass him, but he could also (more likely) never reach expectations. I like White and Gardner, but no worries about them in this sort of deal. It is a bold move by the Tribe, and a worthy gamble. Fans who are a little less prospect inclined should be very excited about this new direction the front office is heading.

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Re: trades

Postby El Em » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:47 pm

It is tough to watch the the Tribe struggle to score runs most nights, and though he will not swing a bat in the AL, I still believe Ubaldo will be a big factor in this playoff run. If we are fortunate enough to make the post season, I like our short series chances much more with Jimenez and Masterson throwing at the top. In any case, we really need the bats we have to start producing.
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Re: trades

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:49 pm

Going to be a bit intersting to see how gets DFAed for Jimenez. White was on the 60-day DL still so that doesn't count as a 40 man move.

Wonder if it's finally going to be the end of the line for Durbin....or maybe Talbot (though not sure about DFAing a guy on the DL)?
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Re: trades

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:53 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Going to be a bit intersting to see how gets DFAed for Jimenez. White was on the 60-day DL still so that doesn't count as a 40 man move.

Wonder if it's finally going to be the end of the line for Durbin....or maybe Talbot (though not sure about DFAing a guy on the DL)?


Looks like Orly has been traded to the Giants.... so, that would end that debate.
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Re: trades

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:59 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Going to be a bit intersting to see how gets DFAed for Jimenez. White was on the 60-day DL still so that doesn't count as a 40 man move.

Wonder if it's finally going to be the end of the line for Durbin....or maybe Talbot (though not sure about DFAing a guy on the DL)?


Looks like Orly has been traded to the Giants.... so, that would end that debate.


I don't even care what they got back... that's fantastic.

Up comes Jason Donald? Or do we have another trade in order? Ludwick would be nice...
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Re: trades

Postby jellis » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:00 pm

El Em wrote:I realize that we are all posting on the Prospect Insider, and that we all have a semi-aberrant interest in our Minor Leaguers, but even possessing that mind set, I am very excited by this deal. I believe Ubaldo to be an elite Major League pitcher, with a very reasonable price tag over the next few years. I hate losing Pom, but he is still far away from the status of Jimenez. He may eventually pass him, but he could also (more likely) never reach expectations. I like White and Gardner, but no worries about them in this sort of deal. It is a bold move by the Tribe, and a worthy gamble. Fans who are a little less prospect inclined should be very excited about this new direction the front office is heading.

Larry


I believe I was the only person who had Pom ranked in the top 2 this year, yet I am happy with this deal. You get a player who is controlled for the next 3 years who has a great head and arm. I think he will settle in and be a great addition
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:02 pm

Say good bye to O-Cabby..

Looks like the Giants and Indians have made a trade for Orlando Cabrera.. Anyone hear any details of the trade?
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Re: trades

Postby jellis » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:03 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Say good bye to O-Cabby..

Looks like the Giants and Indians have made a trade for Orlando Cabrera.. Anyone hear any details of the trade?

Thomas Neal
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Re: trades

Postby stoike » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:08 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Say good bye to O-Cabby..

Looks like the Giants and Indians have made a trade for Orlando Cabrera.. Anyone hear any details of the trade?

Thomas Neal


Nice move! A good hitter that plays a good outfield. LIKE this one!
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Re: trades

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:12 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Say good bye to O-Cabby..

Looks like the Giants and Indians have made a trade for Orlando Cabrera.. Anyone hear any details of the trade?

Thomas Neal
Ty
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Re: trades

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:14 pm

jellis wrote:I believe I was the only person who had Pom ranked in the top 2 this year, yet I am happy with this deal. You get a player who is controlled for the next 3 years who has a great head and arm. I think he will settle in and be a great addition


I think Tony had it right when he said that we'd be elated if Pomeranz turned out to be AS good as Jimenez. In a straight-up trade, I'd do that in a heartbeat. White is a guy that definitely has flame-out potential at this point. The splitter has a few people here concerned, and lots of analysts have said that he's probably better off in the bullpen.

This isn't a slam-dunk trade for Antonetti, but trades rarely are. I come back to what Antonetti said on the radio about a week ago, that you don't TRY to demolish teams in a trade. You're looking for a deal that satisfies both sides. This deal, as of right now, does that. It has the potential to go either way, which tells you that it's fair. It very well could be that Pomeranz - either due to Ubaldo's ineffectiveness or Pom's talent - ends up being better. It very well could be that White and Gardner end up adding significantly to the Rockies' team and they end up "winning" this trade. It also could be that White and Gardner end up as bullpen arms, McBride never sees the bigs and Pomeranz never becomes a true ace while Ubaldo becomes our legit ace and leads us to a world series. I'm not really sure that one scenario is any more likely than the other.

The thing that concerns me right now is just how small that window of contention is. We have Choo and ACab for 2 more years. Masterson, Chris Perez and Jimenez for 3. We've got Hafner for one more year. I am concerned that by the end of 2014 we'll have very little left, and we may sharply take a dive in performance. The dearth of talent in Akron and Kinston doesn't provide any comfort there.
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Re: trades

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:15 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Say good bye to O-Cabby..

Looks like the Giants and Indians have made a trade for Orlando Cabrera.. Anyone hear any details of the trade?

Thomas Neal


I like this deal. It might be another Garko for Scott Barnes. The Tribe needs to keep San Fran on speed dial.
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