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Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:52 pm

Down goes Sizemore with another injury.... That's the last thing we need.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:34 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Down goes Sizemore with another injury.... That's the last thing we need.

I cannot tell from the video whether it is DL serious or much longer but it looks like he is likely out for a while. Looks like Buck or Carerra might stick around for a while. Too bad because it looked like Sizemore might be finding some footing against RHP.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:06 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Down goes Sizemore with another injury.... That's the last thing we need.

I cannot tell from the video whether it is DL serious or much longer but it looks like he is likely out for a while. Looks like Buck or Carerra might stick around for a while. Too bad because it looked like Sizemore might be finding some footing against RHP.

-Looked more precautionary than anything.. first guess.. Grady felt something.. nothing serious.. instead of taking ANY chance..he'll sit out the rest of today's game..

-Great recovery play by Asdrubal.. good thing the Indians UZR challenged, mediocre defensive playing SS (according to all the scouts) has a glove on is left hand.....

-JeanMar is pitching well.. he's not as sharp as I've seen him in the past..let's see if he can keep it up as this game moves into the middle innings.... I guess not.. a middle of the plate 89 mph fastball that Andino tee'd off on.. puts the indians behind by a run..they're just going to have to rally...
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby jellis » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:11 pm

report is day to day on the good knee
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:41 pm

It's crazy that we're losing this game right now. Gomez really didn't look at that bad even though the box score disagrees. 3 home runs and each was on a count that favored the pitcher, I believe. Take away those 3 pitches and he was very solid. Gotta keep the ball in the park, especially one like this.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:46 pm

entertheshoe wrote:It's crazy that we're losing this game right now. Gomez really didn't look at that bad even though the box score disagrees. 3 home runs and each was on a count that favored the pitcher, I believe. Take away those 3 pitches and he was very solid. Gotta keep the ball in the park, especially one like this.


Gomez was ok...and I think his last pitch was a pretty good 1, Markakis cheated for it and just crushed it, he's on fire, hats off to him more than blame Jeanmar there...the other 2 were bad though

Would suck walking away 2-2 out of this series...should have gotten more runs out of Atkins, who was pretty bad. 12-2 LOB tells the whole story
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:47 pm

entertheshoe wrote:It's crazy that we're losing this game right now. Gomez really didn't look at that bad even though the box score disagrees. 3 home runs and each was on a count that favored the pitcher, I believe. Take away those 3 pitches and he was very solid. Gotta keep the ball in the park, especially one like this.
Small park..and with the heat..the ball is really flying..
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:50 pm

Got something cooking here.. Santana with a swinging bunt.. Zeke with a solid single up the middle..LaPorta with a solid single.. tough luck with Buck.. seems like when it matters.. .chis isn't helping his standing...
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:59 pm

Horrible AB by Lonnie there...Hafner with a warning track FO, 3 singles and no runs to show for...16 LOB...looks like another wasted game
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:00 pm

Tondo wrote:Horrible AB by Lonnie there...Hafner with a warning track FO, 3 singles and no runs to show for...16 LOB...looks like another wasted game


They've only left 11 on base.

Still putrid, but not quite as bad.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:03 pm

What do you know, another 2 out at bat by Chisenhall. His 3rd one today in 4 plate appearances.

0 outs: 11 plate appearances, .400 batting average
1 out: 15 plate appearances, .267 batting average
2 outs: 21 plate appearances, .105 batting average

:tease: :tease: :tease:
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:04 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Tondo wrote:Horrible AB by Lonnie there...Hafner with a warning track FO, 3 singles and no runs to show for...16 LOB...looks like another wasted game


They've only left 11 on base.

Still putrid, but not quite as bad.


MLB.com has 18 LOB, yahoo 16 :s_dunno
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:06 pm

Tondo wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Tondo wrote:Horrible AB by Lonnie there...Hafner with a warning track FO, 3 singles and no runs to show for...16 LOB...looks like another wasted game


They've only left 11 on base.

Still putrid, but not quite as bad.


MLB.com has 18 LOB, yahoo 16 :s_dunno


You're mis-reading the box score.

They're the total of the individual hitters LOB numbers.

For example.... if the bases are loaded and there are none out and the next 3 hitters K, the inidivdual hitters left 3 on base each so a total of 9.... but, the team LOB remains at 3.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:11 pm

Of course...my bad. I always look at the individual LOB and forget about the team LOB, as it tells you more about the number of opportunities in a game...team LOB 11-0...and O's getting everyone in on bloops and errors...7-3, what a joke
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:16 pm

10-8 hits, 4-3 XBH, 4-1 BBs....down 3-7...crazy game
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:51 pm

Tondo wrote:10-8 hits, 4-3 XBH, 4-1 BBs....down 3-7...crazy game


A weekend of opportunities lost.. coulda/woulda/shoulda.. In other words.. the April/May clutch hitting.. is much more sporadic, sorry to say.. Nice to see Zeke hit the ball hard...that kid has game..
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby jellis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:23 am

to me it just seems that we have for the past 2 months look like a team that has arrived early and all the parts aren't ready, its great for the fans but in some respects the added pressure might be worse for the team. Every kid who gets called up is pretty clearly pressing, and you have to wonder if its cause of the the play off race. With a ready Putnam, I still would love to see us flip a reliever and a young arm for some kind of bat, at this point I dont care if hes a righty or lefty as long as he can get on base. We have one guy in the top 40 of the majors in OBP its Santana we just need guys on base.

Some one mentioned Bonifacio, who ever it was that's some good outisde the book thinking. He would have the highest OBP on the Indians. Willingham is a guy to watch, he has been hot since he came back
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Tondo » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:53 am

I'm not all that high on Putnam...in fact I dropped him out of my Top20. His bottom line production (career and this season) just doesn't instill confidence in me...look at his stats since May 1st..a 4+ ERA in AAA for a RP is pretty bad, his 1.25 career MiLB WHIP also is pretty mediocre...I'm not sure this guy is anything more than a Herrmann (6th/7th Inn/mop up guy)...Lee and even Judy are better options imho and if he doesn't improve, guys like Burns and Sturdevant might surpass him next season (already have Burns ranked higher)

That said, I agree that we should trade some RP depth or even from the MLB....we'll lose 1 or 2 in the Rule 5 anyway if we keep em all.

Bonifacio and Willingham are good targets...I'd still think about Denorfia though...might be the cheapest and still give us an upgrade...we might get him for a Putnam straight up
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:22 am

entertheshoe wrote:What do you know, another 2 out at bat by Chisenhall. His 3rd one today in 4 plate appearances.

0 outs: 11 plate appearances, .400 batting average
1 out: 15 plate appearances, .267 batting average
2 outs: 21 plate appearances, .105 batting average

:tease: :tease: :tease:


Yeah, Chiz is clearly pressing in clutch situations. He panicked when he got two strikes on him with the bases loaded and two out, hacking at a ball in the dirt. He should improve in that area as he settles in, although with the pressure of a pennant race it will be more challenging.

Gomez has to stop throwing those hanging sliders up in the zone. Good hitters crush that pitch. And it was stupid for him to try and throw the same pitch to Markakis three times in a row.

It looked to me like Gomez just ran out of gas in the 6th. It was a 90 degree day and he was taking tons of time between pitches. Then he fell behind Andino 3-1 and had to groove one.

The main thing is he needs to show some improvement in his next start. If he can spot his fastball and slider effectively and use his changeup to get strikeouts he can put up quality starts. But like Tomlin, he's not overpowering so he needs to have all his pitches working to be effective. I don't see him in the rotation after White and Pomeranz arrive.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 am

jellis wrote:to me it just seems that we have for the past 2 months look like a team that has arrived early and all the parts aren't ready, its great for the fans but in some respects the added pressure might be worse for the team. Every kid who gets called up is pretty clearly pressing, and you have to wonder if its cause of the the play off race. With a ready Putnam, I still would love to see us flip a reliever and a young arm for some kind of bat, at this point I dont care if hes a righty or lefty as long as he can get on base. We have one guy in the top 40 of the majors in OBP its Santana we just need guys on base.

Some one mentioned Bonifacio, who ever it was that's some good outisde the book thinking. He would have the highest OBP on the Indians. Willingham is a guy to watch, he has been hot since he came back


Yes.. I did mention the Emilio, but misspelled his last name.. Also, in that group were:

More realistic targets could be a players like Emilio Bonafacio from the Marlins. John Mayberry Jr from the Phillies, and or Melky Cabrera from the Royals.


Interesting to note, the Marlins have a significant need for bullpen arm(s).. Bonifacio for one of the excess arms would seem to make sense, with the sole exception, the Marlins aren't going anywhere this season, so, the arm would have to be a near MLB ready type with upside.. like Josh Judy, Adam Miller, Cory Burns or Bryan Price.. While losing Judy would be "hurtful", the benefit of a true all around utility guy, does make some sense and wouldn't negatively effect the 2011 season, drastically.

TBH, Melky would be a better choice w/ the Royals needing SP's, desperately.. The Phillies giving up on Mayberry Jr could be a coup that would be truly sweet..
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:43 am

entertheshoe wrote:It's crazy that we're losing this game right now. Gomez really didn't look at that bad even though the box score disagrees. 3 home runs and each was on a count that favored the pitcher, I believe. Take away those 3 pitches and he was very solid. Gotta keep the ball in the park, especially one like this.


Thats what he is though. He throws meat. And doesnt have the control or the deception that Tomlin does. Hope Huff pitches well so it at least gives the FO another option other than Gomez

to me it just seems that we have for the past 2 months look like a team that has arrived early and all the parts aren't ready, its great for the fans but in some respects the added pressure might be worse for the team. Every kid who gets called up is pretty clearly pressing, and you have to wonder if its cause of the the play off race. With a ready Putnam, I still would love to see us flip a reliever and a young arm for some kind of bat, at this point I dont care if hes a righty or lefty as long as he can get on base. We have one guy in the top 40 of the majors in OBP its Santana we just need guys on base.

Some one mentioned Bonifacio, who ever it was that's some good outisde the book thinking. He would have the highest OBP on the Indians. Willingham is a guy to watch, he has been hot since he came back


You dont want Francouer and his 310 OBP?
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:16 am

Why would the Marlins trade Bonificio? He's a 26-year-old switch hitter with a .290 average and .363 OBP. He has 17 steals in 21 attempts. He looks like their leadoff hitter of the future. And why would the Tribe trade for another Michael Brantley when they already have one?

Bonificio has 1 HR and 14 RBI in 286 at-bats. He's strictly a slap hitter. The Indians have a number of guys like that in their farm system. I'll take Brantley, who has 6 HRs and 38 RBI with developing power.

If we assume Grady will be cut loose after this season and Brantley moves to CF, then we'll need an every day left fielder. But I think the Marlins will want a lot more for Bonificio than a couple of minor league pitchers who we'll be exposing to Rule 5 eventually. The Tribe is looking for a right-handed power bat in left field if Grady is let go, not a slap hitting leadoff guy.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby jellis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:38 am

Lloyd Christmas wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:It's crazy that we're losing this game right now. Gomez really didn't look at that bad even though the box score disagrees. 3 home runs and each was on a count that favored the pitcher, I believe. Take away those 3 pitches and he was very solid. Gotta keep the ball in the park, especially one like this.


Thats what he is though. He throws meat. And doesnt have the control or the deception that Tomlin does. Hope Huff pitches well so it at least gives the FO another option other than Gomez

to me it just seems that we have for the past 2 months look like a team that has arrived early and all the parts aren't ready, its great for the fans but in some respects the added pressure might be worse for the team. Every kid who gets called up is pretty clearly pressing, and you have to wonder if its cause of the the play off race. With a ready Putnam, I still would love to see us flip a reliever and a young arm for some kind of bat, at this point I dont care if hes a righty or lefty as long as he can get on base. We have one guy in the top 40 of the majors in OBP its Santana we just need guys on base.

Some one mentioned Bonifacio, who ever it was that's some good outisde the book thinking. He would have the highest OBP on the Indians. Willingham is a guy to watch, he has been hot since he came back


You dont want Francouer and his 310 OBP?



I think I read since April he is hitting 240, really cooled me on him and it actually sounds like Royals might keep him. Bonaficio makes sense because a BP arm and a lesser spec gets him. Deforia concerns me has he actually hits better at home and his game might be conducive to SD. Mayberry does make sense, as the Phillies need pen arms and we could trade them 2 really one of the smith/ perez group and then one to use next year or even this year from Putnam/Judy/Byrson

Bonificio gets on base, he plays every where, its the ultimate utility guy and would be an upgrade even as a slap hitter to our line up. He would be number one on this team in OBP, and I don't care who you are that would be a nice addition to a line up. I believe he is arb eligible so the marlins would consider moving him.

One last long shot Chris Heisey of the reds, right handed and only 2nd year, he is playing some but not every day because in spite of decent stats the Red's OF is loaded. Bruce and Stubbs are starters for sure so he splits time with Gomes and fred lewis. Like I said a real long shot, but might be a willing partner team because he is blocked and could be a guy who helps for a few years. Cost to acquire in the question
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:24 pm

jellis wrote:One last long shot Chris Heisey of the reds, right handed and only 2nd year, he is playing some but not every day because in spite of decent stats the Red's OF is loaded. Bruce and Stubbs are starters for sure so he splits time with Gomes and fred lewis. Like I said a real long shot, but might be a willing partner team because he is blocked and could be a guy who helps for a few years. Cost to acquire in the question


Depending on what the Reds decide on with Alonso (do they keep him and play him in LF?), Heisey actually may be a realistic target.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Heisey has 12 HR and 33 RBI in only 177 ABs. Multiply by 3 to project his numbers as an everyday player over a full season and he's got 36 HRs and 99 RBIs. At age 26 he's got a bright future and I doubt the Reds are interested in moving him. He's only making $419 K this year so he's dirt cheap, too.

It's not like they're spotting him against lefties, either. He has 151 ABs against right-handers and only 26 against lefties. So those numbers should be projectable.

If he's available, I'd like to get him as our regular left fielder next year if we don't exercise the option on Grady and Brantley is moved to center. The Reds have the highest scoring team in the NL but are near the bottom in team ERA, which is why they're 47-49. They need to give up a bat for some pitching. You can't win with pitching like theirs. The Indians have pitching prospects to burn and they need a young right-handed power hitting outfielder. I think the elements are in place for a trade.

Here are the Reds starters and their ERA's, with the number of starts in parenthesis:

Arroyo 5.57 (19 starts)
Volquez 5.93 (16)
Travis Wood 5.11 (16)
Leake 4.28 (15)
Cueto 2.01 (13)

Keep in mind those are National League ERA's. How in the world can they hope to contend with a rotation like that?
Their bullpen looks OK, but they only have two decent starters.

Let them choose two of McAllister, Gomez, Talbot and Huff. A healthy Talbot is better than three of those guys. Huff just threw seven shutout innings in the majors. One more start like that and we may be in business.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:21 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Heisey has 12 HR and 33 RBI in only 177 ABs. Multiply by 3 to project his numbers as an everyday player over a full season and he's got 36 HRs and 99 RBIs. At age 26 he's got a bright future and I doubt the Reds are interested in moving him. He's only making $419 K this year so he's dirt cheap, too.

It's not like they're spotting him against lefties, either. He has 151 ABs against right-handers and only 26 against lefties. So those numbers should be projectable.

If he's available, I'd like to get him as our regular left fielder next year if we don't exercise the option on Grady and Brantley is moved to center. The Reds have the highest scoring team in the NL but are near the bottom in team ERA, which is why they're 47-49. They need to give up a bat for some pitching. You can't win with pitching like theirs. The Indians have pitching prospects to burn and they need a young right-handed power hitting outfielder. I think the elements are in place for a trade.

Here are the Reds starters and their ERA's, with the number of starts in parenthesis:

Arroyo 5.57 (19 starts)
Volquez 5.93 (16)
Travis Wood 5.11 (16)
Leake 4.28 (15)
Cueto 2.01 (13)

Keep in mind those are National League ERA's. How in the world can they hope to contend with a rotation like that?
Their bullpen looks OK, but they only have two decent starters.

Let them choose two of McAllister, Gomez, Talbot and Huff. A healthy Talbot is better than three of those guys. Huff just threw seven shutout innings in the majors. One more start like that and we may be in business.


Wait, are you suggesting the Tribe trade 2 ML-caliber starting pitchers for the Reds 4th OFer? :shok:

Don't get me wrong, I like Heisey...but his home-road splits are pretty steep this year and GABP is known to be a decent HR park. I'd give them Talbot for him, but those other 3 would give me some pause. Two of them though....no thanks
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:55 am

Wait, are you suggesting the Tribe trade 2 ML-caliber starting pitchers for the Reds 4th OFer?

Don't get me wrong, I like Heisey...but his home-road splits are pretty steep this year and GABP is known to be a decent HR park. I'd give them Talbot for him, but those other 3 would give me some pause. Two of them though....no thanks


Good point; he's only hitting .214 on the road. I'm not sure why he's their 4th outfielder since his numbers are better than Gomes and Stubbs. As for trading two ML caliber starting pitchers, I don't see any of those guys in an eventual Indians rotation that will consist of Masterson, Carrasco, Tomlin, White, and Pomeranz. If Carmona gets back on track, he'll have a spot for sure, so where does that leave guys like Talbot, McAllister, Gomez and Huff?

Heisey is a relatively young (26) and very cheap right-handed power hitting left fielder whose numbers this season project to 33 HRs and 99 RBIs in 530 at-bats. How much of his production this year is due to GABP is the question. I can't believe the Reds would give him up for only Mitch Talbot, or Huff, or Gomez, or McAllister. In fact, they probably see him as a starter next year and possibly for the rest of this year.

But they obviously need to get some starting pitching or they'll be nothing more than an entertaining .500 team in a weak division. The Indians have excess starting pitching and they need a young right-handed power hitting OF, so it seems the elements are in place for something to happen.

By the way, Acta was quoted as saying it's an "understatement" that the Indians need to make a trade. He's calling out the front office. Last night the Indians were once again unable to score against left-handed pitching and wasted a brilliant start by Masterson. Antonetti is on the clock. I don't know if Heisey is a target, but they have to do something.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:14 pm

Just want to point out that according to reports/rumors, the Reds are interested in Ryan Ludwick as well. They obviously don't believe that Heisey is the answer in LF.
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby jellis » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:21 pm

Prosecutor wrote:
Wait, are you suggesting the Tribe trade 2 ML-caliber starting pitchers for the Reds 4th OFer?

Don't get me wrong, I like Heisey...but his home-road splits are pretty steep this year and GABP is known to be a decent HR park. I'd give them Talbot for him, but those other 3 would give me some pause. Two of them though....no thanks


Good point; he's only hitting .214 on the road. I'm not sure why he's their 4th outfielder since his numbers are better than Gomes and Stubbs. As for trading two ML caliber starting pitchers, I don't see any of those guys in an eventual Indians rotation that will consist of Masterson, Carrasco, Tomlin, White, and Pomeranz. If Carmona gets back on track, he'll have a spot for sure, so where does that leave guys like Talbot, McAllister, Gomez and Huff?

Heisey is a relatively young (26) and very cheap right-handed power hitting left fielder whose numbers this season project to 33 HRs and 99 RBIs in 530 at-bats. How much of his production this year is due to GABP is the question. I can't believe the Reds would give him up for only Mitch Talbot, or Huff, or Gomez, or McAllister. In fact, they probably see him as a starter next year and possibly for the rest of this year.

But they obviously need to get some starting pitching or they'll be nothing more than an entertaining .500 team in a weak division. The Indians have excess starting pitching and they need a young right-handed power hitting OF, so it seems the elements are in place for something to happen.

By the way, Acta was quoted as saying it's an "understatement" that the Indians need to make a trade. He's calling out the front office. Last night the Indians were once again unable to score against left-handed pitching and wasted a brilliant start by Masterson. Antonetti is on the clock. I don't know if Heisey is a target, but they have to do something.



I wonder if One of the 3 AAA SPs plus one of Putnam/Judy would entice them. Two upgrades for a guy they are unsure of, who has never been given an every day job yet
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Re: Indians at Orioles, July 14, 15, 16 & 17

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:40 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Just want to point out that according to reports/rumors, the Reds are interested in Ryan Ludwick as well. They obviously don't believe that Heisey is the answer in LF.


Thanks for the information, but I don't understand why a team that is leading the NL in scoring and has three starters with ERA's over 5.00 is looking to add a bat.

My guess is they're looking for an upgrade over Johnny Gomes, who's at .213/.746. Not great numbers for a left fielder playing in a hitter's park.
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