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Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

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Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby ironmike » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:19 pm

Last evening Grady Sizemore had a good nite at the plate hitting a home run and a double, scored two runs, had two rbi's and 6 total bases. The second hit for Sizemore off of Arroyo was a double he scorched down the right field line. The pitch Sizemore yanked down the line was a fastball on the outside corner of the plate.

The Charlie Manuel way of hitting for our great teams of the 90's was to take any pitch on the outer half of the plate and hit it up the middle hard or the other way. How many times did we see Ramirez, Thome & Belle hit the ball pitched on the outer half of the plate with authority for extra base hits and home runs?

Ramirez and Thome had exceptional power to RCF and LCF respectively. Who can forget Albert Belle adjusting in the WS game and hitting a home run to the RF bullpen area off of Greg Maddux. Jim Thome hit one of the longest home runs in the history of Jacobs Field to LCF which landed on Eagle Avenue.

Glad Sizemore had a productive game last nite, but how often does Sizemore hit the ball hard and deliver extra base hits using both CF and LF? This is also part of Carlos Santana's troubles this year at the plate. Both Sizemore and Santana are consistently pulling pitches they should be taking the other way. Their poor approach at the plate has really hurt our offense. However, Santana showed good discipline last nite when he singled on an outside pitch hitting it between 3B and SS. Let's hope he continues that mentality more often. Sizemore remains a big concern.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby jellis » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:35 am

ironmike wrote:Last evening Grady Sizemore had a good nite at the plate hitting a home run and a double, scored two runs, had two rbi's and 6 total bases. The second hit for Sizemore off of Arroyo was a double he scorched down the right field line. The pitch Sizemore yanked down the line was a fastball on the outside corner of the plate.

The Charlie Manuel way of hitting for our great teams of the 90's was to take any pitch on the outer half of the plate and hit it up the middle hard or the other way. How many times did we see Ramirez, Thome & Belle hit the ball pitched on the outer half of the plate with authority for extra base hits and home runs?

Ramirez and Thome had exceptional power to RCF and LCF respectively. Who can forget Albert Belle adjusting in the WS game and hitting a home run to the RF bullpen area off of Greg Maddux. Jim Thome hit one of the longest home runs in the history of Jacobs Field to LCF which landed on Eagle Avenue.

Glad Sizemore had a productive game last nite, but how often does Sizemore hit the ball hard and deliver extra base hits using both CF and LF? This is also part of Carlos Santana's troubles this year at the plate. Both Sizemore and Santana are consistently pulling pitches they should be taking the other way. Their poor approach at the plate has really hurt our offense. However, Santana showed good discipline last nite when he singled on an outside pitch hitting it between 3B and SS. Let's hope he continues that mentality more often. Sizemore remains a big concern.



hardly fair to compare 2 HOF and a guy who would have been one if he had stayed healthy to a guy coming back from 2 years of injuries and a rookie
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby ironmike » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:22 am

Sizemore in his third at bat, dribbled a ball to second base on a pitch outside the strike zone. When he starts using all fields he will have a chance to return to being a productive hitter. In his last at bat, he was hand cuffed on an inside pitch and grounded out to third. Bobby Valentine's observations appear to be right on.

We need Sizemore to make adjustments. When you see him hitting line drives to left and center field we will all know he is back, until then he is going to struggle and just hit mistakes.

Would not trade Sizemore and would pick up his option. He eventually will get back. How many posters here thought Hafner was done?

Sizemore can again be an elite player, he just needs time in the batting cage and patience.

P.S. Indian's player who improving the most? Lou Marson. Charlie Manuel was quoted as saying Marson can be a 20 home run per year guy and be an effective offensive player. Defensively he is terrific. He will emerge over time as the Indians number one catcher.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:21 am

As long as Grady tries to hit a home run to right field every time up, he's going to struggle. I heard the Indians are trying to get him to hit more to the center of the field, but I'm not seeing it yet.

I can't see Marson being the everyday catcher as long if he continues to hit .174 against right-handed pitching. He's hitting .364 against lefties, though, so the obvious solution would be to catch Marson against lefties and move Santana to first. That would put LaPorta on the bench, but he's hitting only .182 against lefties, so that's not a problem.

Against right-handed starters we bench Marson and play LaPorta (.260 against righties) and Santana.

I think Grady's performance in the second half will determine whether we exercise his option. The fact that there are no outfielders in the upper levels of the farm system that are doing anything is to his advantage. Hafner coming back from his injury successfully might affect their thinking on Grady, too.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby ACrank » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:45 pm

Yes, Sizemore does remain a big concern. With the type of surgery he is recovering from the fact that he is having problems should be a surprise to no one.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:20 pm

He singled to left field today with two out, driving in two runs. Maybe he's starting to get it.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby indians1 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:33 pm

the problem is that the indians let their hitters get pull happy. You look at travis hafner- he has become a straight pull hitter. He used to hit HR's to the opposite field back in 2005 and 2006. Grady- on the other hand- has never made any real adjustments. He did get his BB rate to increase a few years back but he has never made the adjustments.

How often did we see grady swinging for the fences with 2 strikes instead of shortening his swing. Look at jhonny peralta. That guy back in 2005 did well because he went to the opposite field. Even in years when he struggled, the times he got on mini-hot streaks was when he went the opposite field.

I haven't seen any detroit games but the fact that jhonny peralta is .150 points higher than his career OPS is telling. I know he hits behind cabrera, and victor and that helps, but he hit behind victor and travis when they were going good in 2006 and 2007 and he regressed never coming close to his 2005 year.

You have to wonder why the indians in 10 years have really only had i consistent hitter for an extended period of time. (that includes more than 4 years) To be great at your sport- you have to be at the top of your sport or one of the top guys in your sport for at least 7 years. Thome, Ramirez, belle, Lofton were all that.

Victor martinez is the only guy that comes close to that. Travis hafner, grady, peralta, and now choo all hit road blocks in their careers.

I think it is a fair question to ask if there is a breakdown in the way the indians develop their talent.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby ironmike » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:04 pm

When Peralta starts trying to pull every pitch, Leyland sits him down, takes him out of the line up and makes him watch film. In other words he gets benched for a game until his approach is correct.

Hope Wedge is enjoying his 16 game losing streak. How the hell he ever got another job is a real mystery and should be investigated.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:41 pm

ironmike wrote:When Peralta starts trying to pull every pitch, Leyland sits him down, takes him out of the line up and makes him watch film. In other words he gets benched for a game until his approach is correct.

Hope Wedge is enjoying his 16 game losing streak. How the hell he ever got another job is a real mystery and should be investigated.


The Tigers have played 102 games.. jhonny P has appeared in or started 92 of them.. doesn't sound like Jhonny has sat much..

Wedge, contrary to the Plain Dull and those that ape their sentiments, is and remains a solid baseball guy. He's an old school manager that had little use for the barbs and witicisms of the media.. He was a good manager for the Indians and will be for the M's.. It's not an easy task to turn a club around in a year.. it takes time..
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby indians1 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:12 pm

With the indians track record of players developing within their system, i would not sign these guys to long term deals. The indians either get ineffectiveness or injuries. You look at grady, carmona, peralta, hafner, choo, and westbrook. we have spent alot of money on these guys and to me nice- we have had mixed results.

I would buy up these guys arbitration years early on and then let them walk or trade them when they are getting to age 28 or 30. Chances are we will get burned on that deal. Look at minnesota. I give them credit for having the balls to go out and commit money to mauer, but they may get really burned on it especially if he can't play catcher.

That way you can save the money and go heavy in the draft on high end prospects. The fans may not like that but they didn't go to the games when they dished out 57 million to hafner and 33 million to westbrook.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:20 pm

indians1 wrote:With the indians track record of players developing within their system, i would not sign these guys to long term deals. The indians either get ineffectiveness or injuries. You look at grady, carmona, peralta, hafner, choo, and westbrook. we have spent alot of money on these guys and to me nice- we have had mixed results.

I would buy up these guys arbitration years early on and then let them walk or trade them when they are getting to age 28 or 30. Chances are we will get burned on that deal. Look at minnesota. I give them credit for having the balls to go out and commit money to mauer, but they may get really burned on it especially if he can't play catcher.

That way you can save the money and go heavy in the draft on high end prospects. The fans may not like that but they didn't go to the games when they dished out 57 million to hafner and 33 million to westbrook.


The CC extension worked out VERY well.
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Re: Sizemore (the hitter) versus Ramirez, Thome & Belle

Postby indians1 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:02 pm

CC was also traded when he was 28 or 29 years old. I am not saying you don't give these short term deals like they did when they gave hafner a 3 or 4 year deal right after his 2004 season. We should plan to keep these guys for a few years and then let them walk or trade them when they become arbitration elgible or elgible for free agency. Had we kept the grady deal down to 5 years we would be out of his deal as well.

BAseball is a business. Players seem to come to cleveland when they have to or when their career is on a downturn. They don't sign as FA to win championships. We found that out with lebron and every FA in the NFL that passes us up unless they have some ties to the cleveland community. They don't seem to stay here when their career is at their peak.

If travis hafner was mashing the ball in 2007, i don't think he signs the contract mid season and he probably plays out his first contract. Why should we not treat the players the same way. The FO has to do what is best for the organization even if it hurts some feelings.

The only guy that i really felt bad when we traded was victor. He was probably the exception and may have signed a team friendly contract to stay here. He would look really good at 1B instead of that stiff laporta.
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