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Who/What Are We?

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Who/What Are We?

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:23 pm

The Indians of April were to good to be true.

The Indians of June are to bad to be true.

So what happened? Did the press clippings go to their heads? Or did the pressure of 1st place bring the collapse?

The leaders of the collapse have been well identified. Of the failures the one that aggravates me is Choo. When a player signs with Boras the player is throwing down the gauntlet for maximum bucks. My opinion is that Choo had a great September to finish with his .300 average when the games meant absolutely nothing. Now when the games mean something - not only has he forgot to hit - he cannot field either.

I acknowledge he played well after the season to win for Korea - but that was not the major leagues.

I see nothing to be done for this mess other than to let it play out. The year has provided some great entertainment I did not expect. I hope we can at least finish .500.

Of note - if Hannahan has a good June - what do we do with him? I note Chisenhall is hitting in the .250s.

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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Prosecutor » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:13 pm

Chisenhall isn't ready for the majors. He's hitting 30 points below Phelps and we can see how Phelps is doing.

I agree we just have to let the year play out. It has been very entertaining so far, but now it's reality time. I'd say finishing at .500 is the goal at this point. But if they don't get it together quickly even .500 will not be realistic.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:42 am

Prosecutor wrote:Chisenhall isn't ready for the majors. He's hitting 30 points below Phelps and we can see how Phelps is doing.

I agree we just have to let the year play out. It has been very entertaining so far, but now it's reality time. I'd say finishing at .500 is the goal at this point. But if they don't get it together quickly even .500 will not be realistic.


I don't know if you can just take Phelps's batting average in the majors and subtract 30 points from it to get how good Chiz would do in the majors. Some people just step up in crunch time and others don't. Some play up to their competition while others may overachieve. Chiz probably shouldn't be expected to hit .300+ in the majors, but if the decision is between letting Jack Hannahan get his wrinkles or let Lonnie Chisenhall work out the lumps, I say why not Lonnie. That said, I think Jason Donald is probably next in line at 3B when he gets back from injury (and hopefully soon).
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby jellis » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:07 am

we all knew they were playing over there heads, the pitching came back to earth and has gone from great to solid which is still better than expected. Offensively we are counting on lot of questions marks this year, and after a hot start they showing what they are. Even if Choo was the CHoo of last year, this team would still be bottoming out.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby criznit2009 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:59 am

We are a young team, with quite a bit of different obstacles, from a jumpy fanbase, to expected key contributors amazingly under-performing, injured and often injured key sluggers to a sink or swin starting rotation.

All and all we have exceeded expectations this year without question. While keystones like Choo and Santana have struggled, Brantley and Acab have kicked butt definitely played a crucial role. Also, Hannahan who is playing like normal seems to be heating up again. He was definitely a major contributor early on, lets see if he gets on another hot streak.

In reality though it is amazing where they stand right now. What is needed more than anything right now is a big game from Choo and/or Sizemore. Choo is actually a drain on the team right now, something that was laughable at the start of the year....

So being young we are gonna streak, more ups and downs like a roller coaster more than a race. If guys get hot and we get some RH hitting help, still totally winnable. Hard times right now, but once Hafner returns and some of the key guys start producing (they're supposed to right?) we will see a 500ish team with solid runs...One way or another.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Tondo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:15 am

Chisenhall? Talk about Chisenhall?!? I just hope we can win a game...

Seriously though...Chisenhall might be the most overrated prospect around here along with Hagadone...much hype, but always somewhat underwhelming meh-production. As long as we're in it, there's no way to call him up...he'd be an instant downgrade to Hannahan...defensively AND with his bat (talking short term here)

The only bat from within that may help short term is Kipnis...Guy will be a better bat in the Majors than Chiz....there I said it. Less hype, maybe because his name isn't as cool but whatev...guy is a model of CONSISTENCY...and that's what's needed at the MLB level. Kipnis doesn't have the LHP matchup issues Chiz has...his stats are like a robot's one: AVG to above AVG to good EVERYWHERE and he doesn't run as hot and cold as all the other guys in the Columbus lineup...he gradually improved his OPS from month to month (never under .820)

I think Kipnis is shaping up nicely to become a #3 hitter long term and I think he'd be a decent #6 short term....if I had to throw a comp out there I'd say Ian Kinsler, a solid bat with 20-20 potential annually...I really think he's THAT good

Chis otoh? Ugh...don't let me go there...inconsistent (monthly OPS all over the place), underwhelming (best OPS month still worse than Kipnis worst OPS month), AVG at best across the board (power, speed, OBP) , can't hit LHP...only thing he has going for him is he's a year younger than Kipnis but otoh he's been in the system 1 more year than Kip. Both we're deemed ready for AAA but I only see 1 of them proving it

Who/what we are? A young team that has overachieved thus far and that comes down to earth against top level competition right now...playing it out is all we can do but getting Chiz up would be wrong on so many levels...esp. it would send a bad message to other specs in the system imho

The more I think about it...I think a good move nobody's talking about is putting Grady on the trade block. I'm not saying to dump him but if we can fetch a nice return we should go for it. Why? Well, he no longer steals bases and thus has regressed into a .250 hitting matchup lefty with some power..that's it...I really think we should get rid of him as long as his OPS looks ok...then there's the injury risk...I honestly think he's close to done...he might have a nice comeback season down the road but not within the time left on his contrct with the Indians...we should sell him to whoever GM thinks he gets a good 28/29 yo bat on the cheap with upside left because of his past success as long as this projection is possible

Brantley can do what Sizemore should do and you call up another underrated spec: E.Carrera...another pretty consistent performer with less matchup issues...bat ECar 1, Brantley 2

Next year our lineup should look like this:

1 ECar
2 Brantley
3 ACab
4 Hafner/Santana/Choo
5 Santana/Hafner/Choo
6 Choo/Kipnis
7 Kipnis/LaPorta
8 LaPorta
9 Hannahan/Chiz

Really, Sizemore is losing value to us...I hope he hits some more HRs this summer and we trade him for a RH bat or SP or package him with some C prospects for an Uber-spec
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:05 am

Given Sizemore's production this year, his injury issues, and salary ($7.5 million this season), I think he's untradable. The Indians have the option of renewing his contract next year for $8.5 million (or possibly $10.5 million, I'm not sure) with a $500K buyout. If he's traded, the option goes to Sizemore, so he could elect to get the $8.5 million next year from his new team. So any team trading for him would be commited to paying the remainder of his $7.5 million salary this year and at least $8.5 million next year. Who's going to take on that risk? Like Hafner, he is untradable.

Here's an excerpt from an article announcing his six-year deal in 2006:

His new status as a millionaire shouldn't hurt his popularity. Sizemore gets a $1 million signing bonus and salaries of $500,000 this year, $750,000 in 2007, $3 million in 2008, $4.6 million in 2009, $5.6 million in 1010 and $7.5 million in 2011.

The agreement includes an $8.5 million club option for 2012 with a $500,000 buyout. If the option is exercised, the deal would total $31.45 million over seven seasons, and the option price could increase to $10.5 million depending on whether Sizemore is an All-Star, Gold Glove or Silver Slugger or does well in MVP voting.

If traded, the option becomes Sizemore's decision and the buyout is forfeited if he declines the option. He would alsod get a $500,000 payment if traded, and the salaries in the remaining years of the contract would increase by 10 percent.


Maybe if he gets red hot and hits 10 HRs in the next month and Jacob Ellsbury goes down for the season the Red Sox might come up with the money. But I think it would take a perfect storm of events to make Sizemore tradable.

What I see happening is the Tribe will pay him the $500K to buy out the final year of his deal and avoid having to pay him either $8.5 or $10.5 million next year. In the first place, he's not worth the money even if healthy, and the knee issues increase the risk. Secondly, Brantley can take over in center field. Third, the Tribe's lineup is heavily overweight on the left side leaving them extremely vulnerable to left-handed pitching. By my count they have scored one earned run in the last 47 innings against lefties. Letting Grady go would free up $8 million to sign a free agent right-handed bat, or trade prospects for one.

Fausto Carmona also has a club option for $7 million next year and he has the highest ERA of any regular starter in the AL. At age 28 he is what he is. The Indians are also overweight with right-handed pitching, with no left-handed starters on the roster. I expect the Indians will decline Fausto's option too, thereby freeing up $15 million between Fausto and Grady to invest in more productive players.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby jellis » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:53 pm

Tondo wrote:Chisenhall? Talk about Chisenhall?!? I just hope we can win a game...

Seriously though...Chisenhall might be the most overrated prospect around here along with Hagadone...much hype, but always somewhat underwhelming meh-production. As long as we're in it, there's no way to call him up...he'd be an instant downgrade to Hannahan...defensively AND with his bat (talking short term here)

The only bat from within that may help short term is Kipnis...Guy will be a better bat in the Majors than Chiz....there I said it. Less hype, maybe because his name isn't as cool but whatev...guy is a model of CONSISTENCY...and that's what's needed at the MLB level. Kipnis doesn't have the LHP matchup issues Chiz has...his stats are like a robot's one: AVG to above AVG to good EVERYWHERE and he doesn't run as hot and cold as all the other guys in the Columbus lineup...he gradually improved his OPS from month to month (never under .820)

I think Kipnis is shaping up nicely to become a #3 hitter long term and I think he'd be a decent #6 short term....if I had to throw a comp out there I'd say Ian Kinsler, a solid bat with 20-20 potential annually...I really think he's THAT good

Chis otoh? Ugh...don't let me go there...inconsistent (monthly OPS all over the place), underwhelming (best OPS month still worse than Kipnis worst OPS month), AVG at best across the board (power, speed, OBP) , can't hit LHP...only thing he has going for him is he's a year younger than Kipnis but otoh he's been in the system 1 more year than Kip. Both we're deemed ready for AAA but I only see 1 of them proving it

Who/what we are? A young team that has overachieved thus far and that comes down to earth against top level competition right now...playing it out is all we can do but getting Chiz up would be wrong on so many levels...esp. it would send a bad message to other specs in the system imho

The more I think about it...I think a good move nobody's talking about is putting Grady on the trade block. I'm not saying to dump him but if we can fetch a nice return we should go for it. Why? Well, he no longer steals bases and thus has regressed into a .250 hitting matchup lefty with some power..that's it...I really think we should get rid of him as long as his OPS looks ok...then there's the injury risk...I honestly think he's close to done...he might have a nice comeback season down the road but not within the time left on his contrct with the Indians...we should sell him to whoever GM thinks he gets a good 28/29 yo bat on the cheap with upside left because of his past success as long as this projection is possible

Brantley can do what Sizemore should do and you call up another underrated spec: E.Carrera...another pretty consistent performer with less matchup issues...bat ECar 1, Brantley 2

Next year our lineup should look like this:

1 ECar
2 Brantley
3 ACab
4 Hafner/Santana/Choo
5 Santana/Hafner/Choo
6 Choo/Kipnis
7 Kipnis/LaPorta
8 LaPorta
9 Hannahan/Chiz

Really, Sizemore is losing value to us...I hope he hits some more HRs this summer and we trade him for a RH bat or SP or package him with some C prospects for an Uber-spec



all I can say is wow, he is no where near a kinsler who also steals a ton of bases, Chiz is what he is he has a heck of a stroke, but i was the first to throw him udner the bus as he can't hit lefties, but Kipnis to me is going to be an above average 2B offensively and below average defensively. Sizemore btw has zero trade value, and no one trades uber specs anymore cept the yankees with Montero but thats the only guy who has even been on the market in the last few years
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby hoof32 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:11 pm

The Indians aren't going to win ANYTHING with OCab at second base.

Performance is atrociously UNSAT.

At this point, I'd take my chances with Valbuena over OCab... and certainly Phelps or Kipnis.

I'd keep Everett over Orlando. 'Least Adam can play defense.

/nausea
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:52 pm

Tondo wrote:Chisenhall? Talk about Chisenhall?!? I just hope we can win a game...

Seriously though...Chisenhall might be the most overrated prospect around here along with Hagadone...much hype, but always somewhat underwhelming meh-production. As long as we're in it, there's no way to call him up...he'd be an instant downgrade to Hannahan...defensively AND with his bat (talking short term here)

The only bat from within that may help short term is Kipnis...Guy will be a better bat in the Majors than Chiz....there I said it. Less hype, maybe because his name isn't as cool but whatev...guy is a model of CONSISTENCY...and that's what's needed at the MLB level. Kipnis doesn't have the LHP matchup issues Chiz has...his stats are like a robot's one: AVG to above AVG to good EVERYWHERE and he doesn't run as hot and cold as all the other guys in the Columbus lineup...he gradually improved his OPS from month to month (never under .820)

I think Kipnis is shaping up nicely to become a #3 hitter long term and I think he'd be a decent #6 short term....if I had to throw a comp out there I'd say Ian Kinsler, a solid bat with 20-20 potential annually...I really think he's THAT good

Chis otoh? Ugh...don't let me go there...inconsistent (monthly OPS all over the place), underwhelming (best OPS month still worse than Kipnis worst OPS month), AVG at best across the board (power, speed, OBP) , can't hit LHP...only thing he has going for him is he's a year younger than Kipnis but otoh he's been in the system 1 more year than Kip. Both we're deemed ready for AAA but I only see 1 of them proving it

Who/what we are? A young team that has overachieved thus far and that comes down to earth against top level competition right now...playing it out is all we can do but getting Chiz up would be wrong on so many levels...esp. it would send a bad message to other specs in the system imho

The more I think about it...I think a good move nobody's talking about is putting Grady on the trade block. I'm not saying to dump him but if we can fetch a nice return we should go for it. Why? Well, he no longer steals bases and thus has regressed into a .250 hitting matchup lefty with some power..that's it...I really think we should get rid of him as long as his OPS looks ok...then there's the injury risk...I honestly think he's close to done...he might have a nice comeback season down the road but not within the time left on his contrct with the Indians...we should sell him to whoever GM thinks he gets a good 28/29 yo bat on the cheap with upside left because of his past success as long as this projection is possible

Brantley can do what Sizemore should do and you call up another underrated spec: E.Carrera...another pretty consistent performer with less matchup issues...bat ECar 1, Brantley 2

Next year our lineup should look like this:

1 ECar
2 Brantley
3 ACab
4 Hafner/Santana/Choo
5 Santana/Hafner/Choo
6 Choo/Kipnis
7 Kipnis/LaPorta
8 LaPorta
9 Hannahan/Chiz

Really, Sizemore is losing value to us...I hope he hits some more HRs this summer and we trade him for a RH bat or SP or package him with some C prospects for an Uber-spec
I'll stay with this year because next year is sooo far away.. I'd like to see Choo in the lead off spot for a game or two or, how about we go with this lineup versus a RHP:

1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:47 pm

I can't see the tribe just giving up on Fausto... Several bad games us not unusual for Carmona... He's not performed in crunch time, wsox and yanx... I can see the tribe trading him this offseason or potentially later this yr if the slide continues and they feel the time is right to move him, free money for a cpl more draft Pks.

I can see the tribe moving OCab as has been suggested (mlbtraderumors.com) and calling up Jason Donald once he's healthy to fill that role. That would be another 500k that could go for signing another few of these pks. The tribe has a lot of depth in the farm system but there's also a gap in position players. There is the possibility to fill that through trade (I.e. Carmona) maybe OCab in a one for one deal.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:18 pm

1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?


Normally I would laugh at the idea of Hannahan hitting higher in the order than Brantley, but at this point I really don't think it matters what order they come up to the plate.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:51 pm

Prosecutor wrote:
1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?


Normally I would laugh at the idea of Hannahan hitting higher in the order than Brantley, but at this point I really don't think it matters what order they come up to the plate.


I agree it doesn't matter.

Heck, at this point I wouldn't rule out:

Brantley
Santana
Sizemore
Asdrubal
Choo
LaPorta
Buck
Cord
Hannahan

Asdrubal and Brantley have been the only consistent bats in the lineup and ACab has shown that he has the power to bat past the 2 slot. Really no reason to put them right next to each other, I find it better to spread the wealth.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:56 am

I like that one better. Put Santana in the 2 hole to take advantage of his OBP. He can run, too.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:08 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:I'll stay with this year because next year is sooo far away.. I'd like to see Choo in the lead off spot for a game or two or, how about we go with this lineup versus a RHP:

1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?


Yeah, the idea of taking one of our best hitters in Brantley and hitting him 9th (and taking away an at-bat a game) just seems....well...dumb. Hoping that was a joke (guy has an OPS over .800 against righties).



Do like the idea of Santana in the 2-hole and would like to see it. Actually has the higheset OBP on the team. Brantley is not far behind and needs to stay near the top of the lineup. Just slide AC and Grady down 1 spot each. AC gets some more men on base, plus he's much better lineup protection to santana now than Choo is. And with Brantley getting on base, Santana should see more fastballs to try and limit Brantley's speed.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby ChadS17 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:I'll stay with this year because next year is sooo far away.. I'd like to see Choo in the lead off spot for a game or two or, how about we go with this lineup versus a RHP:

1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?


Yeah, the idea of taking one of our best hitters in Brantley and hitting him 9th (and taking away an at-bat a game) just seems....well...dumb. Hoping that was a joke (guy has an OPS over .800 against righties).



Do like the idea of Santana in the 2-hole and would like to see it. Actually has the higheset OBP on the team. Brantley is not far behind and needs to stay near the top of the lineup. Just slide AC and Grady down 1 spot each. AC gets some more men on base, plus he's much better lineup protection to santana now than Choo is. And with Brantley getting on base, Santana should see more fastballs to try and limit Brantley's speed.



You got your wish...tonight's lineup
1. DH Sizemore
2. 1B Santana
3. LF Brantley
4. SS Cabrera
5. RF Choo
6. LF Buck
7. 2B Phelps
8. 3B Hannahan
9. C Marson
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby ChadS17 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:10 pm

Brantley in center, not left.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:46 pm

ChadS17 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:I'll stay with this year because next year is sooo far away.. I'd like to see Choo in the lead off spot for a game or two or, how about we go with this lineup versus a RHP:

1 Shin-soo Choo RF
2 Asdrubal Cabrera SS
3 Grady Sizemore CF
4 Carlos Santana C
5 Travis Buck DH (Until Travis Hafner returns)
6 Jack Hannahan 3B
7 Cord Phelps 2B
8 Matt LaPorta 1B
9 Michael Brantley LF

Any thoughts?


Yeah, the idea of taking one of our best hitters in Brantley and hitting him 9th (and taking away an at-bat a game) just seems....well...dumb. Hoping that was a joke (guy has an OPS over .800 against righties).



Do like the idea of Santana in the 2-hole and would like to see it. Actually has the higheset OBP on the team. Brantley is not far behind and needs to stay near the top of the lineup. Just slide AC and Grady down 1 spot each. AC gets some more men on base, plus he's much better lineup protection to santana now than Choo is. And with Brantley getting on base, Santana should see more fastballs to try and limit Brantley's speed.



You got your wish...tonight's lineup
1. DH Sizemore
2. 1B Santana
3. LF Brantley
4. SS Cabrera
5. RF Choo
6. LF Buck
7. 2B Phelps
8. 3B Hannahan
9. C Marson


Interesting. I like Santana in the 2 hole quite a bit, especially if he swings for contact as opposed to skying one out of the park as he tends to do sometimes. Manny Acta must visit these forums. :dirol:

Lou Marson is going to get eaten alive by A.J. Burnett though. Why we ever start him against a righty is sorta a head scratcher. I'll be surprised if he puts the ball in play today. It's also worth noting that Lou Marson is catching for Carlos Carrasco once again. Could this be an ongoing trend or just a coincidence?
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:51 pm

Like the lineup too and also like the LaPorta benching...dude earned it with his lazy play both on O and D yesterday
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Chip Davis » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:20 pm

One would have to be certifiably insane to think the Indians are better off with Santana playing 1b instead of LaPorta, especially against a RHP. I don't understand the reasoning but I'm not going to complain, just scratch my head. He has hit better than Santana so far this season and has played a damn good 1b, better than I and many others expected. I think Manny is doing a good job remaining calm during the storm and that is exactly what this young team needs. LaPorta is part of the solution not the problem at this point.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:53 pm

Marson should know how to handle Carrasco better than anyone since he's caught him thru the minors going back to their days in the Philly system. This should be a regular pairing.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:46 am

Chiefroy wrote:Marson should know how to handle Carrasco better than anyone since he's caught him thru the minors going back to their days in the Philly system. This should be a regular pairing.
Good point... they do have a deep history dating back to their time in the Phillies minor league system. Another tremendous pitching performance by Car-Car.. If having Marson as his personal catcher gives Carrasco a comfort level, then by all means, don't fix it.. Carlos did his Houdini Escape act in the first two innings, otherwise, he was in command throughout the game..

No one hit the ball with any regularity last night.. Other than the Brantley triple/misplay by Swisher and the pro's pro at bat by Droobs to poke one through the left side (between the two fence post / gold glovers) on a pitch about a half foot off the plate, the offense was pretty stagnant.. Travis Buck was considerably bad as he was swinging and missing by at least a foot or more. Choo single was very much like he has hit in the past, but found himself "in between" the rest of the night..

Give credit to AJ Burnett.. he pitched a gem or well enough to win. Some one had to lose this game, sadly, (sniffle, sniffle) it was the Yankees this time... :biggrin:
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:22 am

We have just finished our Bataan Death March through a long stretch of upper echelon teams (I know - baseball is not war and Bataan was awful). I think much of our poor performance is the result of who we played - and our true level of talent was revealed.

My hope is we dance with the girl who brung us until we are out say 5 games. Then we could go with guys we are going to need next year.

How long do we play Santana in the 4 hole? In a normal world he would break in somewhere around six or seven.

Bob
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby entertheshoe » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:30 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:We have just finished our Bataan Death March through a long stretch of upper echelon teams (I know - baseball is not war and Bataan was awful). I think much of our poor performance is the result of who we played - and our true level of talent was revealed.

My hope is we dance with the girl who brung us until we are out say 5 games. Then we could go with guys we are going to need next year.

How long do we play Santana in the 4 hole? In a normal world he would break in somewhere around six or seven.

Bob


Santana has been at the 2 hole for the last few games.
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Re: Who/What Are We?

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:08 am

Ahhh.. but back to the thread topic... who are the Indians.. and what are the Indians...

The glass half full crowd (and you know who you are & your member name doesn't start with Indians1).. sees the Indians in first place of the AL Central division, a full game ahead of the Detroit Tigers. The lineup consists of hard working blue collar players who don't give away at bats. The Bullpen Mafia gives opposing batters an offer they can't refuse. They are sleeping with "the fishes" ala Luca Brazzi. The starting pitching staff of Car-Car, Masterson, Tomlin, Talbot and even at times Fausto give up runs begrudgingly.. The term "quality start" can be found in your Websters with a picture of the Indians starting staff.. The starters are augmented by a trio waiting in AAA to fill in where ever needed (JeanMar Gomez, Zach McAllister & David Huff).. To say the Indians are well equipped to take on what the season brings.. is clear.. The offense started the season with their hair on fire.. coooooooled down for a bit (injuries did play a part) and is now on the way back.. The track record of the vets is coming to the fore as they round into shape and the rookies are showing they can be potential all stars.. As Lou Brown said.. "..I think we're contenders right now..." The defense is what is bringing it "..all together..", so no Maggie Whitten/Rachel Phelps peels offs needed.

The realists say.. well, the Tribe is middle of the road in almost every important statistical category: The Indians, against the entirety of MLB (i.e. out of 30 team) are 16th in OBP, 19th in BA, 12th in slugging and 13th in OPS. The defense is 15th in fielding... The Indians team ERA is 14th, they've given up the 2nd fewest walks and have gotten the 2nd fewest strikeouts and 5th best in walks per nine innings.. In short.. nothing that says "juggernaut"..

I'll leave the pessimistic appraisal alone for now, but will say, it's encompassed in the bench, FAUSTO, and the two dark holes in the batting order...

First place in the AL Central on the cusp of the First Day of Summer.. I'll take it... :drinks:
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