2010 International Signing Thread

[dnosco]

The countdown clock on the BA site is almost comical for this signing period which begins tonight apparently at 12:01 AM Eastern time on July 2nd.

Hopefully I am not just duplicating a thread. If I am I will delete it.

Here is a link to a BA article on the top projected bonus guys:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 10304.html

I did an article on it a few years ago but that was, at my request, removed off that site. I'll see if I can dig up the salient points or maybe I posted it here and Tony has it and I can just link to it.

I think it was posted here but we have already signed one Taiwanese player OF Chia-Ching Lin:

http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/

[jellis]

rather spend more on the draft, and sign a bunch of mid type guys, the big bonus babies almost always bomb

[martyinnewyork]

If the guy from Taiwan pans out, I can imagine some nice home-run calls from Hammy - "There it goes, Chia-CHING!!!"

[dnosco]

3.....2....1

HAPPY INTERNATIONAL SIGNING PERIOD

[dnosco]

Here is the link to the article I wrote for Tony last year (actually two years ago which was updated and reprinted last year)

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... style.html

[TonyIBI]

Here is the link to the article I wrote for Tony last year (actually two years ago which was updated and reprinted last year)

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... style.html

Good find. I'm actually going to update that and repost it to the front page today or sometime this weekend (and give you credit).

[gotribe31]

BA's thoughts:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/p ... 10300.html

Cleveland Indians: The Indians have a long history of signing and developing quality talent even through changes in personnel. This year the club hired longtime Latin American talent evaluator Ramon Pena, who most recently worked with the Mets, to lead their Latin scouting efforts. The Indians haven't been strongly tied to any of the top talents but should be competitive for more moderately priced prospects.

[dnosco]

I am still intrigued with Roughned Odor, who is related to Rouglas who coaches for the Indians. What a great baseball name. I can imagine the family picnic. You would have to have Scooby Doo as the announcer.

[dnosco]

I posted this on the AZL/DSL thread but it is worth repeating here. Although I am not a big proponent of getting into the kind of bidding wars the rest of baseball does on these Latin guys with questionable age and PED use, look at the Indians' recent high profile signees and their results:

Last year were Jorge Martinez (hitting .300 in the AZL) and Jairo Kelly (hitting.330 in the DSL)

Monsalve is hitting pretty well in the AZL and, along with Bryan, were our top two bonuses from two years ago.

Three years ago were Oswell Munoz (2.2 ERA and a 0/40 BB/K ratio in 32.2 innings) and Elvis Araujo (injured, but considered a real prospect by the Indians.

I don't know how much the other current DSL/AZL Latin players were paid in bonuses but I don't really remember any of them being highly rated. When you look at the stats of guys in the low minors, Urshela, Cid, Roberto Perez, Argenis Martinez, Franciso Jimenez and Jose Flores are the only guys on the MV or LC teams and none of them appear now to be top prospects, although there is still some promise for all of them.

The point here is that I think there is some merit to getting into the Latin area more heavily in a quality instead of quantity approach. I don't like it because you always overpay and, yeah, you always have to worry about the Wauli Bryans of the world and blowing a big chunk of money on a guy like that (who, BTW, is still not on any Indians' farm team). But when the Minnesota freakin' Twins are signing Latin mega-talents like Miguel Sano, and looking at current results, it may be time for me to rethink my position and suggest the Indians sign one mega-talent a year and 2-3 guys like the guys we are currently spending $3-500,000 on...and that's just to keep up with our competition.

[dnosco]

I know we all have signing day itis right now but I thought I would update the list of top Latin free agents left and those who have signed. Other Latin prospects have signed for big money but these are the ones that were listed in a couple of pre-season articles that I referenced above.

Still Available;
Eskarlin Vasquez OF - Questions about his age
Vicmal De La Cruz, OF - linked to Indians
Wilmer Romero OF
Edwin Moreno OF
Vicente Lupo OF

Pedro Perez 3B
Elvis Sanchez 3B - Available

Roughned Odor SS
Christopher Tamarez SS
Stelon Peguero SS
Javier Pimentel SS
Anderson Gonzalez SS
Luis Marte SS
Albert Triunfel SS
Antonio Gonzalez SSJavier Pimentel SS
Anderson Gonzalez SS

Luis Abad RHP
Yorman Landa RHP
Luis Heredia RHP - Committed to Mexican pro team
Felix Jorge RHP

Geronimo Fransua LHP
Angel Majias LHP
Felix Carvallo LHP

Cesar Gonzalez C

Signed:
Hector Veloz 3B - Baltimore
Phillips Castillo OF - Seattle
Jose Torres RHP - Seattle
Jorid Calderon 3B - Seattle
Joel Araujo OF - Tampa Bay
Adonis Cardona RHP - Toronto
Gabriel Cenas 3B - Toronto
Ronny Mejias Ss - Arizona
Yorman Garcia OF - Arizona
Renato Nunez 3B - Oakland
Argy Raga C - Oakland
Ariel Ovando OF - Houston
Humberto Arteaga SS - Kansas City
Jose Tovar LHP - Colorado

[TonyIBI]

It appears looking at the Instructs roster that the following are 2010 International signings:

Chia-Ching Lin (OF)
Leonardo Castillo (INF)
Charlie Valerio (C)
Enosil Tejeda (RHP)

[MattM]

Tejeda played for the DSL team this year.

[TonyIBI]

Tejeda played for the DSL team this year.

Good catch. I admit, I only checked this year's media guide and did not see him listed, so assumed he was not previously signed.

[toledobuck]

I think Charlie Valerio also played in the DSL this year.

[TonyIBI]

I think Charlie Valerio also played in the DSL this year.

Yes, he and Castillo both.

So Lin is the only guy who has been signed recently (he signed in June).

[TonyIBI]

Will have all of this in my recap of my talk with Mirabelli, but guys like Sterling, Romero, etc were all signees this year. Not in ISP, but before it, but a byproduct of their year-round signing focus and not adhering to what is really an artifically created signing period by agents/media.

[TonyIBI]

Hear that De La Cruz is looking for $4M and Odor $2.5M.

[catfish]

Those 2 have good names and besides dolan is making a lot of money by having people roll around his ballpark during the winter. Sign them up.

[TonyIBI]

Those 2 have good names and besides dolan is making a lot of money by having people roll around his ballpark during the winter. Sign them up.

Indians aren't spending that kind of cash on a Latin guy. Something that will be explained more in the Mirabelli article posting tonight/tomorrow.

[catfish]

What is wrong with latin guys. Once upon time they had manny. He was pretty good.

[A.Zajac]

What is wrong with latin guys. Once upon time they had manny. He was pretty good.

You realize we're talking about international FA, right? Manny went to school in NY and was drafted....

[TonyIBI]

What is wrong with latin guys. Once upon time they had manny. He was pretty good.

Nothing wrong with them. Manny was drafted.

Guys like Victor, Peralta, Colon, etc, all of those guys signed for five figures, which is what we are still targetting. Never have paid a high amount for Latin free agents.

[elrod enchilada]

seems to me like the Tribe's Latin policy is working. some real intriguing 17 and 18 year olds in the system now.

[Hermie13]

What is wrong with latin guys. Once upon time they had manny. He was pretty good.

Nothing wrong with them. Manny was drafted.

Guys like Victor, Peralta, Colon, etc, all of those guys signed for five figures, which is what we are still targetting. Never have paid a high amount for Latin free agents.

Technically not true. Didn't we give Dannys Baez the largest bonus in team history? He was a latin free agent, though he was 20-21 I believe at the time we signed him and not 16-17.

Wish the Tribe would dive into that market a bit more. Realize Baez backfired, but would have liked to have seen us go harder after Iwamura, Alexei Ramirez, and Dayedo.

[TonyIBI]

Technically not true. Didn't we give Dannys Baez the largest bonus in team history? He was a latin free agent, though he was 20-21 I believe at the time we signed him and not 16-17.

Wish the Tribe would dive into that market a bit more. Realize Baez backfired, but would have liked to have seen us go harder after Iwamura, Alexei Ramirez, and Dayedo.

Technically correct. But while he is a Latin guy, he was a defector from Cuba and not really an international scouting effort by the Indians or other teams. More like a Japanese signing like Ichiro, Matsui, etc if you ask me.

I mean, I don't consider Masa Kobayashi as part of our international signing effort and we paid him 6M.

[jellis]

What is wrong with latin guys. Once upon time they had manny. He was pretty good.

Nothing wrong with them. Manny was drafted.

Guys like Victor, Peralta, Colon, etc, all of those guys signed for five figures, which is what we are still targetting. Never have paid a high amount for Latin free agents.

Technically not true. Didn't we give Dannys Baez the largest bonus in team history? He was a latin free agent, though he was 20-21 I believe at the time we signed him and not 16-17.

Wish the Tribe would dive into that market a bit more. Realize Baez backfired, but would have liked to have seen us go harder after Iwamura, Alexei Ramirez, and Dayedo.

makes sense since all of them have been flame outs, Rameriz still doesnt know what a walk is, Dayan has rebounded a little but is not worth his money, and Iwamura is the best of the lot but once again has been rarely more than average at best

[Hermie13]

makes sense since all of them have been flame outs, Rameriz still doesnt know what a walk is, Dayan has rebounded a little but is not worth his money, and Iwamura is the best of the lot but once again has been rarely more than average at best

Yeah, but at least Ramirez knows how to play defense. He'd be an instant upgrade over Cabrera. Plus, he's contract is ridiculously team friendly. His walk rate also wasn't far off Cabrera's last year (49 walks vs 44 walks in similar ABs).

Iwamura would have been nice in 2007-2009. Him at 3B and Blake still in the OF...or him at 2B once Barfield turned out to be not what we wanted.

Disagree on Dayan, think in the end he'll be worth the money...but wasn't as upset we failed to get him (compared to the other two). Iwmura was the one that really hurt as reports were we were the frontrunners for him....then got outbid by the rays.

We'd be a better team with Ramirez, that's not even a debate. Not saying we screwed up by not getting him as he reportedly like the White Sox (had Contreras), but that's an area I wish we'd go harder at. Stay away from the $30M Chapman's of the world or $100M Dice-K's....but the guys around $4-10M? We can afford that and should try to compete in that market more.

[jellis]

makes sense since all of them have been flame outs, Rameriz still doesnt know what a walk is, Dayan has rebounded a little but is not worth his money, and Iwamura is the best of the lot but once again has been rarely more than average at best

Yeah, but at least Ramirez knows how to play defense. He'd be an instant upgrade over Cabrera. Plus, he's contract is ridiculously team friendly. His walk rate also wasn't far off Cabrera's last year (49 walks vs 44 walks in similar ABs).

Iwamura would have been nice in 2007-2009. Him at 3B and Blake still in the OF...or him at 2B once Barfield turned out to be not what we wanted.

Disagree on Dayan, think in the end he'll be worth the money...but wasn't as upset we failed to get him (compared to the other two). Iwmura was the one that really hurt as reports were we were the frontrunners for him....then got outbid by the rays.

We'd be a better team with Ramirez, that's not even a debate. Not saying we screwed up by not getting him as he reportedly like the White Sox (had Contreras), but that's an area I wish we'd go harder at. Stay away from the $30M Chapman's of the world or $100M Dice-K's....but the guys around $4-10M? We can afford that and should try to compete in that market more.

Rameriz hits 10 more Hrs but 20 less doubles then ACab. His OBP is 50 points lower, he does have a 10 point better OPS. Rameriz is a better defender, but I don't think its a huge loss to have no signed him.

I think its smarter to invest in the draft, rather see the money spent there then in Latin America.

[Hermie13]

Rameriz hits 10 more Hrs but 20 less doubles then ACab. His OBP is 50 points lower, he does have a 10 point better OPS. Rameriz is a better defender, but I don't think its a huge loss to have no signed him.

I think its smarter to invest in the draft, rather see the money spent there then in Latin America.

Not sure what you're talking about 10 more HRs.....you're talking strictly 2009? Cause he hit 15 more in 2008 and has 13 more this year.

AC is the most overrated player on the Indians. Hell, Jason Donald has been better offensively this year in nearly the same number of at-bats. If Donald outhits AC again next year, I consider dumping AC on another team and moving Donald back to SS. You really don't lose a ton of defense, as I've said all year, AC is not a good SS, and glad that others are finally seeing this.

AC needs to hit for a .300+ average or his OBP won't be very strong. IF he can repeat his 2009 numbers then he's worth keeping around. But with his sub-par defense, I'd still take Ramirez over him. This team could use that right-handed pop rather than a #2 hitter like Cabrera.

Bottom line, the Indians would be a better team over the past 3 years with Ramirez. And again, for the cheap money he cost, would have been a steal. Cost less than DeRosa.

[jellis]

Rameriz hits 10 more Hrs but 20 less doubles then ACab. His OBP is 50 points lower, he does have a 10 point better OPS. Rameriz is a better defender, but I don't think its a huge loss to have no signed him.

I think its smarter to invest in the draft, rather see the money spent there then in Latin America.

Not sure what you're talking about 10 more HRs.....you're talking strictly 2009? Cause he hit 15 more in 2008 and has 13 more this year.

AC is the most overrated player on the Indians. Hell, Jason Donald has been better offensively this year in nearly the same number of at-bats. If Donald outhits AC again next year, I consider dumping AC on another team and moving Donald back to SS. You really don't lose a ton of defense, as I've said all year, AC is not a good SS, and glad that others are finally seeing this.

AC needs to hit for a .300+ average or his OBP won't be very strong. IF he can repeat his 2009 numbers then he's worth keeping around. But with his sub-par defense, I'd still take Ramirez over him. This team could use that right-handed pop rather than a #2 hitter like Cabrera.

Bottom line, the Indians would be a better team over the past 3 years with Ramirez. And again, for the cheap money he cost, would have been a steal. Cost less than DeRosa.

last year Acab was better, he had a higher win share and by most metrics was better, his has had a down year thanks to injuries but in the end its hard to say that Rameriz would be an improvement at all. Not sure he was cheap enough to make him even a steal

[Hermie13]

last year Acab was better, he had a higher win share and by most metrics was better, his has had a down year thanks to injuries but in the end its hard to say that Rameriz would be an improvement at all. Not sure he was cheap enough to make him even a steal

You're joking on the cheap part right? He signed a 4 year/$4.75M contract....he's actually going to be cheaper than Cabrera in 2011. Make less than a million in 2008, then only $1.1M in 2009, 2010, and then next season as well. Will end up slightly more expensive than AC in that time (depending on how big a raise he gets in arby)....but his total contract was about equal to what Peralta made this year.

And you're still ignoring the difference in defense, which is HUGE. We would be a better team with Ramirez, period. He would make the entire infield better. You could start him at SS, AC back to 2B where he belongs, and let Donald play 3B where the Phillies wanted to move him full-time. Would have a year to figure out if AC is for real or the guy we saw this year (even before the injury, he wasn't that good both defensively and offensively).

Moot point, but he was an absolute STEAL for the White Sox (saying otherwise is just being hardheaded). An average of just over $1M a year....for a SS that plays above average defense and can hit 15+ HRs? That's the very definition of a steal.

[A.Zajac]

last year Acab was better, he had a higher win share and by most metrics was better, his has had a down year thanks to injuries but in the end its hard to say that Rameriz would be an improvement at all. Not sure he was cheap enough to make him even a steal

You're joking on the cheap part right? He signed a 4 year/$4.75M contract....he's actually going to be cheaper than Cabrera in 2011. Make less than a million in 2008, then only $1.1M in 2009, 2010, and then next season as well. Will end up slightly more expensive than AC in that time (depending on how big a raise he gets in arby)....but his total contract was about equal to what Peralta made this year.

And you're still ignoring the difference in defense, which is HUGE. We would be a better team with Ramirez, period. He would make the entire infield better. You could start him at SS, AC back to 2B where he belongs, and let Donald play 3B where the Phillies wanted to move him full-time. Would have a year to figure out if AC is for real or the guy we saw this year (even before the injury, he wasn't that good both defensively and offensively).

Moot point, but he was an absolute STEAL for the White Sox (saying otherwise is just being hardheaded). An average of just over $1M a year....for a SS that plays above average defense and can hit 15+ HRs? That's the very definition of a steal.

Did you just say ACab belongs at 2B?

[Hermie13]

last year Acab was better, he had a higher win share and by most metrics was better, his has had a down year thanks to injuries but in the end its hard to say that Rameriz would be an improvement at all. Not sure he was cheap enough to make him even a steal

You're joking on the cheap part right? He signed a 4 year/$4.75M contract....he's actually going to be cheaper than Cabrera in 2011. Make less than a million in 2008, then only $1.1M in 2009, 2010, and then next season as well. Will end up slightly more expensive than AC in that time (depending on how big a raise he gets in arby)....but his total contract was about equal to what Peralta made this year.

And you're still ignoring the difference in defense, which is HUGE. We would be a better team with Ramirez, period. He would make the entire infield better. You could start him at SS, AC back to 2B where he belongs, and let Donald play 3B where the Phillies wanted to move him full-time. Would have a year to figure out if AC is for real or the guy we saw this year (even before the injury, he wasn't that good both defensively and offensively).

Moot point, but he was an absolute STEAL for the White Sox (saying otherwise is just being hardheaded). An average of just over $1M a year....for a SS that plays above average defense and can hit 15+ HRs? That's the very definition of a steal.

Did you just say ACab belongs at 2B?

Defensively? He does. Obviously with the number of 2Bs we have in the minors we're going to leave him at SS, but he simply doesn't have the range to be a star SS. Even the Indians brass (shapiro included) agrees with me here (though Shapiro was more optimistic that he'd get better than I am).

I mean seriously, has anyone watched him play SS this year? good grief


The only SS that has been worse than AC this year defensively? Hanley Ramirez. AC has shown no range this year. Maybe it's 'all' his arm injury (to his non-throwing arm)....but I don't buy it. HOPE that's what it is, but he was bad there last year too.

This "scout" that Tony quoted was either stoned or related to AC when he said that at worst AC is league average defensively. Again, HOPE is is the injury and lack of playing there a ton prior to last year.....but he needs to show way, way more range than he has these last 2 years. He's better than Peralta in that department, but not by a huge amount really.

[TonyIBI]

Looks like Roughned Odor signed with the Rangers.

[GeronimoSon]

AC has the ability to play either middle infield positions.. the defensive metrics say he's not a great SS, but, your eyes don't lie.. he makes all the routine plays & has a strong accurate arm. His range is good and he gets to the balls he should get to. Claiming he's better suited to 2B.. okay, no issue there.. If there is a better SS candidate, either though trade or developing in the minors, bring him up.. let him compete with AC for the spot..

If UZR or UZR150 etc are as good as it gets for defensive metrics..then measurables are in need of further tweaking.... this is a fundamentally undefined argument that smacks of subjectivity.. meh..

[Edible14]

AC has the ability to play either middle infield positions.. the defensive metrics say he's not a great SS, but, your eyes don't lie.. he makes all the routine plays & has a strong accurate arm. His range is good and he gets to the balls he should get to. Claiming he's better suited to 2B.. okay, no issue there.. If there is a better SS candidate, either though trade or developing in the minors, bring him up.. let him compete with AC for the spot..

If UZR or UZR150 etc are as good as it gets for defensive metrics..then measurables are in need of further tweaking.... this is a fundamentally undefined argument that smacks of subjectivity.. meh..

Well, his range wasn't that great last year. You could kind of see it even with your own eyes, that he wasn't that quick. I think it was Tony who suggested that ACab was never in the best shape this year, and could be better if/when he gets back in shape. I hope that's the case.

Obviously, I hope his offensive numbers rebound too. ACab and LaPorta are the two you'd have to be the most nervous about going forward. They're both supposed to be the future for the Tribe at their positions, and they both play positions where the tribe is relatively thin in the minors.

[Hermie13]

Yeah, using your eyes you could clearly see AC wasn't a good defensive SS last year. When Shaprio and Antonetti bring up Cabrera's defense as a disappointment of the 2010 season, you really don't need the numbers to back you up.


I am willing to give him a semi-pass due to that gruesome arm injury....but that doesn't excuse his lack of range prior. He's one of (if not the) biggest key to 2011. He must rebound at the plate, but more importantly must improve defensively.

[petes999]

From MLB Rumors

"The Indians signed Kevin Calderon for $80K. The 16-year old made this year's All-Star team and is considered a top defensive catcher."

Sounds interesting .... like these small signings that are young and full of potential. You can get 10 of them and combined may have a better chance one of them making it is better than a Lavinsky.

Tony, did Indians ever release who they signed last year. Thought you were going to get that info? Or, is it a part of your book. Can't wait for it.

[homerawayfromhome]

Interesting signing I'd rather see the team sign some of these young guys rather than signing some washed up vet that would put up worse numbers than some of the rooks already in the system.

[TonyIBI]

From MLB Rumors

"The Indians signed Kevin Calderon for $80K. The 16-year old made this year's All-Star team and is considered a top defensive catcher."

Sounds interesting .... like these small signings that are young and full of potential. You can get 10 of them and combined may have a better chance one of them making it is better than a Lavinsky.

Tony, did Indians ever release who they signed last year. Thought you were going to get that info? Or, is it a part of your book. Can't wait for it.

Indians did not send out a formal list last year of who they signed internationally. Really never do, though had done it in 2009. To find out who they signed and for info you have to ask and have a good relationships with their latin and american scouting directors and scouts.

I'll have 15 guys profiled in the Top 15 Latin prospects portion in the book, some of which are signings from last year like Ronnie Rodriguez, Charlie Valerio, etc.

[homerawayfromhome]

@ TonyIPI now your just leading us on.

[GeronimoSon]

@ TonyIPI now your just leading us on.

When you're going along willingly, all is good...