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Keith law's ranks

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:39 pm

I know I am his officially poster here, but on espn he might be my favorite writer anymore

he put up his organizational ranks and the indians were 5th, here was his comments and the link to the whole article

5. Cleveland Indians: The trades of Casey Blake and CC Sabathia combined with some depth-oriented drafts have filled out this system over the past two years, although it's arguable how many impact guys the Indians have after Carlos Santana. A healthy Adam Miller, who has No. 1 starter stuff, would have had them a little higher on the list. They are one of a half-dozen teams whose prospect lists genuinely run 12 to 15 names deep.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/ ... id=3848691
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:52 am

I found it kinda weird he'd rank us that high, yet not call LaPorta an impact guy....you'd think if he wasn't a fan of him, we'd have been much lower.....


And did you notice how low the Nationals were? ouch! Being bad is one thing....but having no farm system AND being bad is just sad.....
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby cardiackidz » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:04 am

the nationals problem is jim bowden, the guys a used car salesman. how he keeps that job or how he stayed with the reds as long as he did still shocks me.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:56 pm

Law ranks Carlos Santana #13 prospect in baseball.

13 Carlos Santana C Cleveland Indians
TOP '08 LEVEL: AA (Akron) UR 22
In 2007, Santana hit .223/.318/.370 in the Midwest League, didn't make Baseball Prospectus' list of the top 11 Dodgers prospects, and didn't crack the top 20 on Baseball America's list. Now, after hitting a combined .330/.435/.569 in high-A -- walking more than he struck out -- he projects as a middle-of-the-order, switch-hitting run producer who, by the way, is a legitimate big league catcher. Santana has a very compact swing and makes a lot of hard contact, but he also has enough strength in his upper body to generate power despite the short swing. Behind the plate, he's a good receiver and has an above-average arm, but needs to work on his game-calling. Given his tremendous control of the strike zone and above-average power, he has very little to do to turn into an average big league catcher, but there's a high probability that he develops into much more.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=3840355
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:59 pm

I'm not an ESPN Insider, so I don't know where other Indians ranked, but according to the chat, the Indians had 5 guys make the top 100.

Jon V. (Cleveland, OH): Out of the 5 Indians on the list (Santana, LaPorta, Miller, Huff and Weglarz), who has the best chance to contribute to the big league club this year?

Keith Law: (1:10 PM ET ) Huff and/or Miller. If Miller can just pitch, he could come very quickly as a short reliever.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=24678
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:53 pm

will post reports when I get home laporta he ranks pretty high, I know miller was like 51. Laporta was in the early 30's
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:42 pm

Bobby (Kinston): Hector Rondon had a real nice year for us down here in Kinston - he didn't make your list, but do you think he has the potential to do in a year or two?

SportsNation Keith Law: Yes, absolutely. He's one of their top 10 guys.

Joe (Irvington, NJ): How close was Beau Mills to making the top 100? He looks to have star potential hitting ability.

SportsNation Keith Law: It's a good bat, not a star-caliber bat, and I think he's a DH. If he could really play first, I'd like him a little more. Cleveland's 11-20 prospects list is full of guys who can hit somewhat but can't play a position, like Mills and Wes Hodges.

Josh (Los Angeles, CA): So the Dodgers sold the 11th best prospect in baseball for about 2 million in the deal for Blake, if the reports are to be trusted. How egregious do you find this, when coming from a team in a market like Los Angeles?

SportsNation Keith Law: I find it amusing that because of that relatively small amount of money, Cleveland may very well end up with more value for Blake than they did for Sabathia.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:55 pm

27 Matt LaPorta 1B Cleveland Indians
TOP '08 LEVEL: AA (Huntsville) 37 24
LaPorta is what he is (or what you thought he was, if you thought about him at all before this sentence): a slow, patient slugger, stuck at first base, whose power and on-base skills will make him a productive middle-of-the-order hitter and who is ready for the majors now.

LaPorta's power is prodigious, and he gets very good extension through the ball; he's strong enough to power the ball out the other way but can get too pull-conscious. His swing is a little long, but he hasn't had trouble making contact through Double-A, fanning in just 19 percent of his plate appearances in pro ball.

To the extent that he continues that, he can be more than just a three-true-outcomes player and would elevate himself from "above-average regular" to "potential star."


58 Adam Miller RHP Cleveland Indians
TOP '08 LEVEL: AAA (Buffalo) 26 24
Miller has No. 1 starter stuff, and probably has No. 1 starter command as well, but has thrown a total of 94 innings the past two years because of a torn flexor tendon in his right middle finger that required surgery and ended his 2008 season. Miller has had injury trouble before, missing time in 2003, 2005 and late 2007 because of arm trouble, and it's unlikely that he'll bounce back in 2009 and handle a starter's workload. His stuff would be dominant in a short relief role, and he might stay healthy that way, sitting in the mid-90s with an out-pitch slider that will touch 88 with a hard, late break. At this point, he just needs to stay healthy for a full year, and if the way to do that is in one- and two-innings bursts three times a week, so be it.

61 Nick Weglarz LF/1B Cleveland Indians
TOP '08 LEVEL: A (Kinston) 62 21
Weglarz is one of the most disciplined hitters in the minors -- he's drawn three fewer walks than Lars Anderson the past two years in more than 100 fewer plate appearances -- and only his uncertain power potential keeps him out of the top quarter of this list. He also has better raw power than this year's performance would indicate, and projects to have 30-homer power down the road, but he's had trouble keeping his lower half involved, and while he has good bat speed he's not strong enough to just jerk the ball out of the park. He has improved in left field to the point where he's playable and could end up average, although he'll never be plus and could eventually drift back to first base. The physical potential for power is there, and he'll play this entire year at 21, probably starting in Double-A, so there's still time left on the clock for him to develop it.

66 David Huff LHP Cleveland Indians
TOP '08 LEVEL: AAA (Buffalo) UR 24
Huff came out of UCLA as a soft-tossing left-hander with a good changeup and not much else to recommend him, but he has improved across the board and is now ready to step into Cleveland's rotation as soon as they need him. Huff will sit 89-92 now and touch 94, and he still has an excellent changeup. He throws both a slider and a curve, with the slider now showing solid-average, but the curveball has a chance to become at least fringe-average although its slow rotation means it probably won't be plus. He repeats his delivery very well and has an advanced feel for pitching. Because of that and the presence of a plus pitch, he has a good chance to adjust well to the big leagues when he gets the call sometime in 2009.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:55 pm

Cleveland Indians
1. Carlos Santana, C
2. Matt LaPorta, 1B
3. Adam Miller, RHP
4. Nick Weglarz, LF/1B
5. David Huff, LHP
6. Hector Rondon, RHP
7. Kelvin de la Cruz, LHP
8. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3B
9. Carlos Rivero, SS
10. Abner Abreu, 3B
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:57 pm

1B
1. Lars Anderson, Boston
2. Justin Smoak, Texas
3. Eric Hosmer, Kansas City
4. Logan Morrison, Florida
5. Matt LaPorta, Cleveland
6. Angel Villalona, San Francisco
7. Kyle Blanks, San Diego
8. Freddie Freeman, Atlanta
9. Yonder Alonso, Cincinnati
10. Chris Carter, Oakland

3B
1. Josh Vitters, Chicago Cubs
2. Brett Wallace, St. Louis
3. Pedro Alvarez, Pittsburgh
4. Mike Moustakas, Kansas City
5. Matt Dominguez, Florida
6. Mat Gamel, Milwaukee
7. Dayan Viciedo, Chicago White Sox
8. Conor Gillaspie, San Francisco
9. Lonnie Chisenhall, Cleveland
10. Todd Frazier, Cincinnati (ss/3b)

C
1. Matt Wieters, Baltimore
2. Buster Posey, San Francisco
3. Carlos Santana, Cleveland
4. Tyler Flowers, Chicago White Sox
5. Taylor Teagarden, Texas
6. Angel Salome, Milwaukee
7. Max Ramirez, Texas
8. Kyle Skipworth, Florida
9. Jesus Montero, New York Yankees
10. Jason Castro, Houston

corner of
1. Jason Heyward, Atlanta
2. Travis Snider, Toronto
3. Fernando Martinez, New York Mets
4. Mike Stanton, Florida
5. Jose Tabata, Pittsburgh
6. Daryl Jones, St. Louis
7. Aaron Hicks, Minnesota
8. Nick Weglarz, Cleveland
9. Andrew Lambo, Los Angeles Dodgers
10. Greg Halman, Seattle

lefty pitchers
1. David Price, Tampa Bay
2. Madison Bumgarner, San Francisco
3. Brett Anderson, Oakland
4. Derek Holland, Texas
5. Brian Matusz, Baltimore
6. Martin Perez, Texas
7. Brett Cecil, Toronto
8. Aaron Poreda, Chicago White Sox
9. Christian Friedrich, Colorado
10. David Huff, Cleveland
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:57 pm

there you go all the law from today
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby TheWord » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Thanks.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:19 pm

jellis wrote:Cleveland Indians
1. Carlos Santana, C
2. Matt LaPorta, 1B
3. Adam Miller, RHP
4. Nick Weglarz, LF/1B
5. David Huff, LHP
6. Hector Rondon, RHP
7. Kelvin de la Cruz, LHP
8. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3B
9. Carlos Rivero, SS
10. Abner Abreu, 3B


Abner Abreu #10? Wow! The only other person to rate him that high was,,uh,,me!
I can't wait to see more of this kid, and where Tony ranks him.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:28 pm

No Beau Mills........that's pretty shocking.......
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:16 pm

Beau Mills is starting become somewhat underrated. I've seen people make alot of lists where his name isn't on it, or he just made the cut. I'm not sure what's not to like about him -- in his first full season he showed good power, ability to hit for average, solid walk rate, got better as the year went on, and did all of that in a league that doesn't really favor hitters. Sure his defense is shaky, but that's something he can work on and as long as his bat develops, his glove won't matter that much.

I expect good things from him next year in AA and it wouldn't surprise me if he had a breakout season.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jhonny » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:58 pm

I look at Beau Mills and I see both arguments. On one side, he does seem trending towards a pretty low ceiling. On the other, it's too early to say that definitively, like for Hodges for instance. Needless to say, 09 is a big year for Mills.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:45 am

Thing with Mills was that he was a top 100 prospect last year by BA....and had an even better year this past year offensively. Only thing that changed is he's really no longer projected as a 3B. Did that hurt him that much? He really wasn't ever gonna be a good 3B if in fact he ever got back there. Was playing 1B mostly in 2007 anyways.

Was top 10 in just about every meaningful stat in the Carolina League last year (AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS, HR, RBI, wOBA)...and was top 5 for many of them, despite being younger than most of the hitters in that league. In fact, the only person younger than him that beat him in any of those main stats was Weglarz who had a higher OBP, and a couple guys who were a month or two younger (so same age really).

Other than defense, only thing bad I've really heard about Mills is that he may not have enough power to play 1B (only really heard that from Dennis though)....yet was 4th in SLG and hit 21 HRs at only 21 in High-A. Sounds like enough power to me.....

AA will be interesting for him as well as Weglarz. Mills is only about 16 months older than Weglarz though. Weglarz struggled at high-A....Mills didn't. Does that 1 extra year really make Weglarz project as the better power hitter? Maybe.....but we'll see how they perform together again at AA. Definitely hoping both come through in a big way obviously.....
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby petergriffin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:35 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Thing with Mills was that he was a top 100 prospect last year by BA....and had an even better year this past year offensively. Only thing that changed is he's really no longer projected as a 3B. Did that hurt him that much? He really wasn't ever gonna be a good 3B if in fact he ever got back there. Was playing 1B mostly in 2007 anyways.

Was top 10 in just about every meaningful stat in the Carolina League last year (AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS, HR, RBI, wOBA)...and was top 5 for many of them, despite being younger than most of the hitters in that league. In fact, the only person younger than him that beat him in any of those main stats was Weglarz who had a higher OBP, and a couple guys who were a month or two younger (so same age really).

Other than defense, only thing bad I've really heard about Mills is that he may not have enough power to play 1B (only really heard that from Dennis though)....yet was 4th in SLG and hit 21 HRs at only 21 in High-A. Sounds like enough power to me.....

AA will be interesting for him as well as Weglarz. Mills is only about 16 months older than Weglarz though. Weglarz struggled at high-A....Mills didn't. Does that 1 extra year really make Weglarz project as the better power hitter? Maybe.....but we'll see how they perform together again at AA. Definitely hoping both come through in a big way obviously.....


his average wasn't that high and he may have not hit that many home runs but i wouldnt say weglarz struggled
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:53 pm

petergriffin wrote:his average wasn't that high and he may have not hit that many home runs but i wouldnt say weglarz struggled


Compared to his 2007 season he did. Never good to see a prospects HR total drop as much as his did. And I didn't say he had really bad year. Just that he struggled. If you asked Weglarz what he thought of his season, I bet he tells you he struggled as well.


One nice thing was the speed that Weglarz showed. Never was said to be that fast, but had 5 triples and stole 9 bases. Is proving too that he can stay in the OF.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:17 pm

from his candidates for top 100 from next year


Cleveland Indians
Hector Rondon (A+) was a candidate to make the top 100 this year; he sits at 93-95 with good life on his fastball and plus control, although his slider is a work in progress.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby dnosco » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:55 pm

jellis wrote:Cleveland Indians
1. Carlos Santana, C
2. Matt LaPorta, 1B
3. Adam Miller, RHP
4. Nick Weglarz, LF/1B
5. David Huff, LHP
6. Hector Rondon, RHP
7. Kelvin de la Cruz, LHP
8. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3B
9. Carlos Rivero, SS
10. Abner Abreu, 3B


We all rate these things differently but, pretty much we all see these 10 guys as prospects.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jhonny » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:21 pm

dnosco wrote:
jellis wrote:Cleveland Indians
1. Carlos Santana, C
2. Matt LaPorta, 1B
3. Adam Miller, RHP
4. Nick Weglarz, LF/1B
5. David Huff, LHP
6. Hector Rondon, RHP
7. Kelvin de la Cruz, LHP
8. Lonnie Chisenhall, 3B
9. Carlos Rivero, SS
10. Abner Abreu, 3B


We all rate these things differently but, pretty much we all see these 10 guys as prospects.


I assume you mean good prospects, otherwise you're just stating the obvious.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby dnosco » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:06 am

Absolutely.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:16 am

I like Law's list......he really seems to favor young upside and projection, but I like it. Think Mills should be in the Top 10 for his power alone. I can understand not having Hodges in there, and not because Hodges is a stiff, but because how much Top 10-15 talent we have. After the first 7 guys, to me everyone from #8-20 are almost interchangeable.

And JP, yeah, I love Abreu too.
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Re: Keith law's ranks

Postby jellis » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:25 am

Consigliere wrote:I like Law's list......he really seems to favor young upside and projection, but I like it. Think Mills should be in the Top 10 for his power alone. I can understand not having Hodges in there, and not because Hodges is a stiff, but because how much Top 10-15 talent we have. After the first 7 guys, to me everyone from #8-20 are almost interchangeable.

And JP, yeah, I love Abreu too.



I know mills is a shock for a lot of people being out but reading what Law said again I feel like his view is very similar. He rated the Indians top 5 because they have such legit depth. It seemed like he was saying this system is a legit 15 real prospects deep and if Miller can bounce back that the system would be top 3 or 4 which is amazing when you consider some of the blue chip specs that Oakland has right now. I think he viewed some one like Mills on par with an Abreu, but at the end of the day abreu has a bigger potential upside.

I think this year will be an excellent year to watch the minors, the best I can remember not just because there is so much talent but because it is a huge year to many many players. Can Santana keep hitting the cover off the ball. If mills hits again people will have to realize hes a legit top 100 prospect, if Hodges bounces back defensively he might look like the answer at 3B, If Brantly hits 35-30 doubles then his star will be hugely on the rise, even lesser players like maybe a john drennon hits better now that he has moved up and it puts his heart back in the game. It feels like there is a dozen or so people who have very important seasons and while some will rise and some will fall, at the end of the year I think even with graduations the minors will look stronger this time next year.
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