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This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:20 am

Pick it up.
It has the Team Analysis for the Indians and Marlins (they have been doing 2 or 3 clubs a week).

They also list out top prospects for the club (not rank but naming of top ones). In the list they have LaPorta, Huff, Santana, Aubrey, Chisenhall, Brantley, Adam Miller, Beau Mills and Wes Hodges.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:25 am

Are those the only ones the list? 9 is a funny number (though I guess Baseball Prospectus does 11, lol).....will have to check it out though.....
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:35 am

Yes the list is only 9 players long. Additionally, its not a listing where 1 player is necessarily ahead of another (unless we are expected to infer that).

The name that surprises me being on the listing the most is Mike Aubrey.
I was also surprised none of the other arms (Rondon, De La Cruz) or bullpen brigade (Stevens, Meloan, Sipp) got a mention.

IMHO Aubrey and Chisenhall should have been left off for Rondon and Sipp.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:47 am

I wonder if they put more weight into being ML ready then.....as Aubrey could very easily play a lot at the ML level (if Hafner gets hurt, he's likely to be one of the first to be brought up).

Plus his minor league numbers are still very solid......just limited in total numbers because of injury. A career .295/.362/.479/.841 is nice.

Sipp being hurt most of last year (and again now) probably kept him off the list (as it likely did for most other people including BA).

I too though would put Rondon ahead of Aubrey, but not by much.....it's fair to put Aubrey ahead....
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby npc29 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:34 pm

They are probably just going for the most known names.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:22 pm

on line at usatoday.com
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:48 pm

list sounds like a joke to me, aubrey is not a prospect anymore
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:04 am

eh, how is he not? Only has 15 games and 45 at-bats at the ML level. Both Francisco and Laffey were still considered prospects going into the 2008 season and both played more before....
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:49 am

Hermie13 wrote:eh, how is he not? Only has 15 games and 45 at-bats at the ML level. Both Francisco and Laffey were still considered prospects going into the 2008 season and both played more before....


age issues and he makes no one elses top 20 anywhere

hence why this list sounds like utter tripe to me
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:28 pm

After reviewing prospects lists fora few years and realizing how many groups put a list together, the fact of Aubrey being LISTED did not surprise me.

I was more surprised is was a source like USA Today/ SportsWeekly.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Jake Taylor » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:00 pm

Here's what surprised me... Mills was listed as an above-average first basemen and Hodges listed as a solid third basemen.

I've never heard anyone say either. If I remember correctly, Law said Hodges was horrible at third and Mills made Hodges look like gold-glove caliber.

I'm not too sure how exact of a science it is with Sports Weekly.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby cardiackidz » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:05 pm

the exact science is sports weekly like most nationaly written magazines sucks.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:54 am

jellis wrote:age issues and he makes no one elses top 20 anywhere

hence why this list sounds like utter tripe to me


eh, he was only 26 last year.....no spring chicken but not terribly old for a prospect. And I bet he makes the top 20 by BA this year. He was there 2 years ago and was top 30 last year I believe.

He is still a prospect.....can argue how good of one he still is though....
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:56 am

Jake Taylor wrote:Here's what surprised me... Mills was listed as an above-average first basemen and Hodges listed as a solid third basemen.

I've never heard anyone say either. If I remember correctly, Law said Hodges was horrible at third and Mills made Hodges look like gold-glove caliber.

I'm not too sure how exact of a science it is with Sports Weekly.


Hodges was listed as the top defensive 3B by BA in 2007 (or one of the best). People look at his horrible stats this year and base everything off that. There's no question he was bad this year....but he's far from as bad as some people make him out to be.


Mills is the head scratcher though.....
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:50 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:age issues and he makes no one elses top 20 anywhere

hence why this list sounds like utter tripe to me


eh, he was only 26 last year.....no spring chicken but not terribly old for a prospect. And I bet he makes the top 20 by BA this year. He was there 2 years ago and was top 30 last year I believe.

He is still a prospect.....can argue how good of one he still is though....


0ver 25 is not really a prospect anymore he turns 27 this year its his prime and he cant make the majors hes not a prospect
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:40 am

But he has made the majors.....

He doesn't have very many minor league at-bats, he is still a prospect plain and simple.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:01 pm

Hermie13 wrote:But he has made the majors.....

He doesn't have very many minor league at-bats, he is still a prospect plain and simple.



I think we can now see hes not a prospect when he cleared waivers it meant he has zero value, didnt you think we could trade him for value at one point
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:07 pm

I think all of us were very surprised to see Aubrey on the listing.
The fact Aubrey made it thru waivers at this point of the off-season did not surprise most of us. I am most surprised Aubrey accepted the Cbus assignment. I guess he didn't have the ability to refuse it yet.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:11 am

MadThinker88 wrote:I think all of us were very surprised to see Aubrey on the listing.
The fact Aubrey made it thru waivers at this point of the off-season did not surprise most of us. I am most surprised Aubrey accepted the Cbus assignment. I guess he didn't have the ability to refuse it yet.


I'm pretty sure with his length of major league service (minimal) it would need to be the 2nd time that he has been DFA'd in order for him to refuse the assignment.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:39 am

jellis wrote:I think we can now see hes not a prospect when he cleared waivers it meant he has zero value, didnt you think we could trade him for value at one point


With the injuries he has had, we would never have gotten much for him ever in a trade. He's still a prospect. Clearing waivers doesn't change that fact.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:23 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I think we can now see hes not a prospect when he cleared waivers it meant he has zero value, didnt you think we could trade him for value at one point


With the injuries he has had, we would never have gotten much for him ever in a trade. He's still a prospect. Clearing waivers doesn't change that fact.


ok yes hes a prospect much in the way John Drennen is but really has zero value
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:36 pm

Well I'd rank him a bit ahead of Drennen as Aubrey has at least gotten to the MLs. Never said he was a high value prospect. It'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers he can put up this year at AAA if he's healthy for the full season......
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:30 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well I'd rank him a bit ahead of Drennen as Aubrey has at least gotten to the MLs. Never said he was a high value prospect. It'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers he can put up this year at AAA if he's healthy for the full season......



i agree though its kind of sad after his first year I was so high on drennen, but yes at this point at least aubrey has a chance of being a major leaguer
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:51 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well I'd rank him a bit ahead of Drennen as Aubrey has at least gotten to the MLs. Never said he was a high value prospect. It'll be interesting to see what kind of numbers he can put up this year at AAA if he's healthy for the full season......

What makes you think Aubrey will be in Columbus? Same for Barfield. Why keep them in Columbus except for injury? In the likely event that Head goes to Columbus as 4th OF/DH/1B, where are you going to play Aubrey? He is clearly behind Brown, Head and LaPorta as 1B options for Cleveland. He cannot play any other position. Just like Barfield who can only play 2B and is well behind Valbuena in the prospect order. The Indians have already picked up two/three middle IF veterans who can play both for Columbus. Are you suggesting that we hold back real prospects to make way for the has been and never was? Sure sounds like it! :s_laughat
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:54 am

hmm, the Tribe optioned Aubrey to Columbus.....sure sounds like he's going there. And the IL has a DH, which is likely where Brown and Aubrey will split time (along with 1B). Barfield will be at 2B in Columbus, unless traded of course, which is a distinct possibility. But barring a trade, he'll be there. There's no room on the ML roster now that the Tribe has traded for DeRosa.....that is unless the Tribe cuts Marte......which could happen....but the fact that he's last this long makes me believe he'll still be around.

So as things stand right now (which obviously could change with injuries or trades), Columbus will shake up something like this: Crowe in LF/CF, Brantley in LF/CF, LaPorta in RF, Aubrey at 1B/DH, Brown at 1B/DH, Barfield at 2B, Valbuena at SS/2B, Hodges at 3B, and Toregas and Gimenez behind the plate. Head may get a bench spot or could end up starting in Akron.

Tribe is not gonna be sending Aubrey to Akron. That much is for sure though.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Unless Valbuena is injured, Barfield stands as much chance of being the starting 2B in Columbus as any of the other three MIs. Just because Aubrey was optioned to Columbus in January, which is a paperwork move, doesn't get him on the field. He is not in the Indians' plans and they said as much. If Barfield was in their plans, why trade for Valbuena?

Who suggested Aubrey was going to Akron? Just you!!! What a stupid comment!!!
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:35 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:Unless Valbuena is injured, Barfield stands as much chance of being the starting 2B in Columbus as any of the other three MIs. Just because Aubrey was optioned to Columbus in January, which is a paperwork move, doesn't get him on the field. He is not in the Indians' plans and they said as much. If Barfield was in their plans, why trade for Valbuena?

Who suggested Aubrey was going to Akron? Just you!!! What a stupid comment!!!


You did, when you said said 'What makes you think Aubrey will be in Columbus?'. Either he's going to be in Columbus or in Akron. You asking the question makes it seem YOU think there's a chance of him going to Akron, not me. Just repeating what you were saying. I NEVER suggested Aubrey going to Akron. On the contrary, I said he'd be starting at Columbus.


And why trade for Valbuena? Depth. Tribe is VERY thin in the middle infield spots throughout the upper levels of the system. Valbuena could also see some time up in Cleveland as a utility guy filling in a bit at SS and 3B as well as his natural 2B should an injury arise. Barfield still has value to the club, and they won't waste him on the bench in Columbus, so the only way he's not starting in Columbus is if he makes the ML club out of ST (which is doubtful since he only plays 1 position and marte is out of options) or is traded.

As I said (if you read what I wrote) and as Tony mentioned before, there's a decent shot of seeing Barfield traded. More likely during ST after Barfield shows that he's at least fully healthy from the injury he had last year. A few teams out there could take a shot at him.......BUT....I do have a feeling the Tribe will hold on to him. They'd be selling low on him and the return (straight up) would be along the lines of what we got for Phillips......Shapiro has shown with Marte he's not a fan of doing something like that again.....but you never know.


Tribe also will give starts to the young guys (which still includes Barfield) over the vets they signed to fill out the roster.


Also, Aubrey is most likely higher up on the Tribe's plans at 1B than Head....and possibly even Brown whom the Tribe didn't even bother rostering. Only guy they have shown any faith in really is LaPorta and Mills at 1B. Aubrey has as good a shot as anyone else to crack the tribe lineup again at 1B (not saying there's a good shot of it though).
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby dnosco » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:48 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I think we can now see hes not a prospect when he cleared waivers it meant he has zero value, didnt you think we could trade him for value at one point


With the injuries he has had, we would never have gotten much for him ever in a trade. He's still a prospect. Clearing waivers doesn't change that fact.


Agreed. How many guys have cleared waivers who are still prospects? The answer is: A LOT!
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:25 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:Unless Valbuena is injured, Barfield stands as much chance of being the starting 2B in Columbus as any of the other three MIs. Just because Aubrey was optioned to Columbus in January, which is a paperwork move, doesn't get him on the field. He is not in the Indians' plans and they said as much. If Barfield was in their plans, why trade for Valbuena?

Who suggested Aubrey was going to Akron? Just you!!! What a stupid comment!!!


You did, when you said said 'What makes you think Aubrey will be in Columbus?'. Either he's going to be in Columbus or in Akron. You asking the question makes it seem YOU think there's a chance of him going to Akron, not me. Just repeating what you were saying. I NEVER suggested Aubrey going to Akron. On the contrary, I said he'd be starting at Columbus.


And why trade for Valbuena? Depth. Tribe is VERY thin in the middle infield spots throughout the upper levels of the system. Valbuena could also see some time up in Cleveland as a utility guy filling in a bit at SS and 3B as well as his natural 2B should an injury arise. Barfield still has value to the club, and they won't waste him on the bench in Columbus, so the only way he's not starting in Columbus is if he makes the ML club out of ST (which is doubtful since he only plays 1 position and marte is out of options) or is traded.

As I said (if you read what I wrote) and as Tony mentioned before, there's a decent shot of seeing Barfield traded. More likely during ST after Barfield shows that he's at least fully healthy from the injury he had last year. A few teams out there could take a shot at him.......BUT....I do have a feeling the Tribe will hold on to him. They'd be selling low on him and the return (straight up) would be along the lines of what we got for Phillips......Shapiro has shown with Marte he's not a fan of doing something like that again.....but you never know.


Tribe also will give starts to the young guys (which still includes Barfield) over the vets they signed to fill out the roster.


Also, Aubrey is most likely higher up on the Tribe's plans at 1B than Head....and possibly even Brown whom the Tribe didn't even bother rostering. Only guy they have shown any faith in really is LaPorta and Mills at 1B. Aubrey has as good a shot as anyone else to crack the tribe lineup again at 1B (not saying there's a good shot of it though).


Sure not me even talking about Aubrey at Akron. I think he will be sold or released before the season is over unless injuries to a prospect keep him on Columbus' roster and never suggested Akron was a possibility. Same for Barfield. Valbuena is the 2B in Columbus barring injury. They won't take time away from a prospect for a failure like Barfield. About the same chance as Marte taking Hodge's place at 3B when he clears waivers.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:28 pm

dnosco wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
jellis wrote:I think we can now see hes not a prospect when he cleared waivers it meant he has zero value, didnt you think we could trade him for value at one point


With the injuries he has had, we would never have gotten much for him ever in a trade. He's still a prospect. Clearing waivers doesn't change that fact.


Agreed. How many guys have cleared waivers who are still prospects? The answer is: A LOT!


How about naming twenty or so, Dennis! That isn't even A LOT! Real prospects, Dennis.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:24 pm

that was my point if its a real prospect with value he would be claimed. The Indians have a 9-12 ranked system so any guy in there top 10 who had MLB experience and is major league ready would be claimed by any team
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:36 pm

Not necessarily. Some teams may just be scared off by his health and lack of positional flexibility. If claimed and put on a 40-man roster he'd have to be on a ML roster by next season. Wouldn't be much of a risk, but teams have mostly full 40-man rosters and 1B isn't a key position that teams need to fill at the higher levels typically.


I don't think that Aubrey should really be a top 10 in our system, but top 15 isn't outrageous for him.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby jellis » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Not necessarily. Some teams may just be scared off by his health and lack of positional flexibility. If claimed and put on a 40-man roster he'd have to be on a ML roster by next season. Wouldn't be much of a risk, but teams have mostly full 40-man rosters and 1B isn't a key position that teams need to fill at the higher levels typically.


I don't think that Aubrey should really be a top 10 in our system, but top 15 isn't outrageous for him.



yes it is, hes not even top 30
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:44 pm

jellis wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Not necessarily. Some teams may just be scared off by his health and lack of positional flexibility. If claimed and put on a 40-man roster he'd have to be on a ML roster by next season. Wouldn't be much of a risk, but teams have mostly full 40-man rosters and 1B isn't a key position that teams need to fill at the higher levels typically.


I don't think that Aubrey should really be a top 10 in our system, but top 15 isn't outrageous for him.



yes it is, hes not even top 30


I don't think he's even top 50.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:14 pm

lol, we'll see. Guess Jordan Brown isn't even a top 50 then either as Aubrey's numbers are just as good in similar time in the minors. Only thing Brown has going for him is age....and he's only a year and a half younger......
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby toledobuck » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:24 pm

Brown and Aubrey will both be in the 20 - 30 range.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:37 pm

toledobuck wrote:Brown and Aubrey will both be in the 20 - 30 range.


Brown probably..... Aubrey, not in my mind.

I still say Aubrey is borderline top 50.
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Re: This week's Sports Weekly (12/24 -12/30/08)

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:41 am

You got that right daz. Brown has a little more legs but with three of the top seven prospects being able to play 1B and AA or above, I cannot see that it makes a whole lot of difference. The organization is passing these guys and some others by. It is the natural order of the game.
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