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"Competitive Balance Lottery"

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

"Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:15 pm

Wow, did any of you guys see this in the new CBA? MLB is introducing a new Competitive Balance Lottery.

After the first round, the ten teams with the lowest revenues and the ten teams with the smallest markets will be entered into a lottery for six additional picks after the first round. A team's chance at winning picks in the lottery will be based on a team's winning percentage.

This draft lottery will be held again for six more picks after the second round for teams that did not get a pick in the 1st round lottery and for other teams that are revenue-recipients.

Apparently, based on how I'm reading this, this lottery is going to be held directly after the first round. It will not be held prior to the draft.

This is a pretty big change, guys. It should actually be pretty exciting to watch on TV as the lottery is being held. Interesting idea.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby daingean » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 pm

I think we will just have to wait to see how this plays out. My guess is that the extra picks will really be inconsequential. I mean with a luxury tax for those going over slots, you will see teams only signing maybe 3 of their 1st 10 picks (so as not to incur the luxury tax). That or pre-draft deals with 6 or 7 guys at below slot values so they can go over on the other 2-4 guys. The extra picks for the bottom revenue sounds good until you see the whole deal.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:12 pm

I'm going to move this over here...

CBA Tidbit # 1: "..Teams in the ten smallest markets and with the ten lowest revenues will enter a lottery for six additional first and second round picks, according to Bill Shaikin of the LA Times..."

So, six first and second round picks.. pretty much guarantees the Indians will be getting some of that..

CBA Tidbit #2: "...Teams that don't exceed their draft spending limit will have a chance to obtain picks from teams that over-spent, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com..." coupled with

CBA Tidbit #3:"..Teams that spend more than 5% over-slot on the draft will face a 75% tax. Teams that go over slot by 5-10% face a 75% tax and the loss of a first rounder. Teams that go over slot by 10-15% face a 100% tax and the loss of a first and second rounder. Teams that exceed slot by 15% or more face a 100% tax and the loss of two first rounders..."

It looks like this set up will allow the end of the pass overs (e.g. Verlander) due to huge demands by players who want to start their career's with the big spenders. Slotting will be the norm. No more multi-million dollar mlb contracts for players with zero experience...

Daingean Wrote:

hmmm...how much will this really help when combined with luxury taxes for over spending? You get an extra pick but we are going to tax you if you over sign. My guess is teams will end up signing only a fraction of their 1st 10 picks (going over slot for 1 - 3 players). We would have been better with a hard slot than this.

G'Son Responded:

The way I looked at it.. it's only the three or four first picks that have the really big signing bonuses, so, if the Indians pick at # 15 ( like they will this June), the over slot spending on bonuses will be minimal.. and it will become a management of the budget for player acquisition via Rule IV draft that will come to bear.. That, of course, is controlled by the GM and his player personnel director.. It should give the Indians & every other team the chance to sign any and every draft eligible player out there...

I am not sure about the differences between hard slotting and overall budgeting.. It seems that the High School players and Sophomore eligible players will become less desirable to draft.. if anything..
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:16 pm

Getting a player in top 40 draft selections is still a pick in those selections.
However, I do not believe the slotting system will be strong enough to prevent 'Boras advised amateurs' to slide in the draft due to their noted demands.

Look at it this way: a team that gets one of those lottery picks might be able to end up selecting 3 times in the top 40 picks if their record is bad enough. A very needed talent infusion can take place in those situations.

I wonder if this is a reaction to the way Boston & Tampa Bay played the draft the last few seasons?
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:18 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Getting a player in top 40 draft selections is still a pick in those selections.
However, I do not believe the slotting system will be strong enough to prevent 'Boras advised amateurs' to slide in the draft due to their noted demands.

Look at it this way: a team that gets one of those lottery picks might be able to end up selecting 3 times in the top 40 picks if their record is bad enough. A very needed talent infusion can take place in those situations.

I wonder if this is a reaction to the way Boston & Tampa Bay played the draft the last few seasons?


Tampa getting 10 picks in the first fifty or so picks was huge.. and they signed ALL OF THEM...smart on their part..
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby jellis » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:25 pm

Dont see it noted, but those competitive picks, can be traded only ones that can be, so that will add another new wrinkle
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:08 pm

Seems like these new rules would pretty much eliminate the late round/high dollar flyer picks. Aviles doesn't get signed under the new rules; pay a luxury tax in addition to the risk of signing an injured guy? Lincecum in the 42nd round, supposedly offered $800K? Not the sure thing/Multi Cy Lincecum, the "scouts don't trust his pitching motion, his arm will fall off" Lincecum. I don't see how the new rules help the small market teaams.

The draft should be slanted in favor of the small market teams and not just in the draft order. The big guys get their pick of the most talented FA's, proven talents, known commodities. The only risk is injury. I'd be in favor of a new rule that would eliminate 1st round picks for World Series teams. Plus the Yankees & RSux in the event they don't make it. :drinks:

Really going to make the last 20 rounds of the draft boring. The scouts are going to be a lot more important.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:21 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Seems like these new rules would pretty much eliminate the late round/high dollar flyer picks. Aviles doesn't get signed under the new rules; pay a luxury tax in addition to the risk of signing an injured guy? Lincecum in the 42nd round, supposedly offered $800K? Not the sure thing/Multi Cy Lincecum, the "scouts don't trust his pitching motion, his arm will fall off" Lincecum. I don't see how the new rules help the small market teaams.

The draft should be slanted in favor of the small market teams and not just in the draft order. The big guys get their pick of the most talented FA's, proven talents, known commodities. The only risk is injury. I'd be in favor of a new rule that would eliminate 1st round picks for World Series teams. Plus the Yankees & RSux in the event they don't make it. :drinks:

Really going to make the last 20 rounds of the draft boring. The scouts are going to be a lot more important.

Those late round over slot picks will still be there..it will require the proper budget management to achieve. It will still come down to if the scouting staff/player personnel management think the player is worth the gamble. The changes may cause some mistakes to be made along the way, too. Like with carpentry, measure twice.. cut once...
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby criznit2009 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:40 am

I am really intrigued by this. I think the next couple drafts will be the most exciting I have ever seen, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out but really as mentioned scouting just became even more crucial to success. Good scouting and even less "luck" then needed now will definitely give more teams (ahem... Cleveland) a real chance to compete and possibly dominate. I think we will see at least a couple teams really excel because of the new set up. By default Cleveland looks to be one of them.
Downside.
In an oddball way it sort of discourages fans from going to games later in the season if your not in the hunt. If yr in the any of the "smaller" markets; that will be interesting to see how it gets defined (Oakland) and yr not quite bad enough to get in the lottery but yr close... Wouldn't the best thing to do that point is to quit going to games and quit buying merchandise (dry them up!) to get your team in the lottery? Perhaps I don't understand it right though.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:22 am

criznit2009 wrote:I am really intrigued by this. I think the next couple drafts will be the most exciting I have ever seen, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out but really as mentioned scouting just became even more crucial to success. Good scouting and even less "luck" then needed now will definitely give more teams (ahem... Cleveland) a real chance to compete and possibly dominate. I think we will see at least a couple teams really excel because of the new set up. By default Cleveland looks to be one of them.
Downside.
In an oddball way it sort of discourages fans from going to games later in the season if your not in the hunt. If yr in the any of the "smaller" markets; that will be interesting to see how it gets defined (Oakland) and yr not quite bad enough to get in the lottery but yr close... Wouldn't the best thing to do that point is to quit going to games and quit buying merchandise (dry them up!) to get your team in the lottery? Perhaps I don't understand it right though.


Interesting point.. the cry in the NFL "Suck for Luck" (Andrew Luck, QB of the Stanford Cardinal) by some fans prompt the "TEAM" to lose thereby gaining a better chance to acquire a better draft pick.. The idea of going into a game, be it football, basketball, hockey or baseball, with the intent to lose, never sits well with professional athletes. Odd, that in all the major sports, ONLY the NBA has put in a system that takes control of who gets the first pick in the draft out of the players/teams hands. Perhaps, there are clear divisions of honor among professional sports with the NBA being the lowest of the four..

In your example.. if the team wins or not, the team can "win" or "lose" by how many fans show up for the games. So, if the fans don't go to the games..don't buy the merchandise, etc..do they get to cheer "WE SUCK.. but the team plays well.."?
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby criznit2009 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:54 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:I am really intrigued by this. I think the next couple drafts will be the most exciting I have ever seen, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out but really as mentioned scouting just became even more crucial to success. Good scouting and even less "luck" then needed now will definitely give more teams (ahem... Cleveland) a real chance to compete and possibly dominate. I think we will see at least a couple teams really excel because of the new set up. By default Cleveland looks to be one of them.
Downside.
In an oddball way it sort of discourages fans from going to games later in the season if your not in the hunt. If yr in the any of the "smaller" markets; that will be interesting to see how it gets defined (Oakland) and yr not quite bad enough to get in the lottery but yr close... Wouldn't the best thing to do that point is to quit going to games and quit buying merchandise (dry them up!) to get your team in the lottery? Perhaps I don't understand it right though.


Interesting point.. the cry in the NFL "Suck for Luck" (Andrew Luck, QB of the Stanford Cardinal) by some fans prompt the "TEAM" to lose thereby gaining a better chance to acquire a better draft pick.. The idea of going into a game, be it football, basketball, hockey or baseball, with the intent to lose, never sits well with professional athletes. Odd, that in all the major sports, ONLY the NBA has put in a system that takes control of who gets the first pick in the draft out of the players/teams hands. Perhaps, there are clear divisions of honor among professional sports with the NBA being the lowest of the four..

In your example.. if the team wins or not, the team can "win" or "lose" by how many fans show up for the games. So, if the fans don't go to the games..don't buy the merchandise, etc..do they get to cheer "WE SUCK.. but the team plays well.."?


I don't think fans would care about an extra draft pick if your team is in the play off chase, I know I wouldn't and with the added WC team, by default a few more teams will be in it. Could easily be around 50% or more of the teams chasing the play-offs come july/august. But if yr one of those teams that are not in it and not quite in the draft lottery but could be (corner case-like scenario)... I know I would want to see my team get into the lottery and if that means "abandoning" the team for the final 1/3-1/4 of the season - well that is a definite possibly if I understand it correctly.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby OhioBaseball » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:34 pm

Maybe I'm in a minority here, but at least anecdotally, from an Indians perspective, are these late round, overslot signings that good of investments? Just my opinion, but the Indians have little to show for their overslot signings the last few years. Maybe just a small sample size, but are we really glad that the Indians signed any of the following;

2008 - Trey Haley ($1.25 million), Zach Putnam ($600k), Tim Fedroff ($725k), TJ House ($725k), Bryce Stowell ($725k)

2009 - (no overslot guys of note)

2010 - Tony Wolters ($1.3 million), Alex Lavisky ($1 million), Kyle Blair ($580k), Tyler Holt ($500k)

Not awesome. The jury is still out on the 2010 class, but all of them disappointed in 2011.

I like the fact that the Indians were aggressive in the draft, but their returns have been poor. I mean, you can't help but think that the guys that fall in the draft fell b/c the majority of scouts didn't think they were worth the money they were asking.

I don't want to turn this into a critique on the Indians draft signings, but rather my point is asking whether its worth signing guys overslot if the crowd apparently wasn't too excited about these guy that fell in the draft. I don't think the teams like Ceveland that were helped by signing guys overslot will be hurt that much by this. It just forces them to allocate resources to potentially more attractive investment opportunities.

Regarding the lottery during the draft, it seems like a gimmick to encourage watching MLB's draft (which they really seem to be pushing in recent years), but from a fan's perspective I like it and think its an improvement over the free agent compensation system that clearly has not worked as was intended.
Last edited by OhioBaseball on Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:08 pm

The idea of FA compensation was a pretty good one I think, the execution however was awful. I'm glad they did away with the Elias rankings which were severely outdated and simplistic.

I'll hold off judgement on the draft changes untill we know what kind of budgets are set. If it's around $10M, I think we'll be okay, but if it's more in the $7M region it will be a disaster.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby ClevelandBlues » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:46 pm

A few thoughts. I think a hard slot would have been much better than the system they came up with, but I think the new system is better than the old. The draft is meant to place the best amateur players on the worst teams, and it really hasn't worked out that way the last few years. If they are going to try and limit international spending, then they should go one step farther and make all international players be part of the draft process. I do like the signing deadline for draft picks being moved up. We might actually get to see our top draft picks play the same year they are drafted now. I really wish they would have gotten rid of the super two rule instead of expanding it. If you want to expand competitive balance, let the small market teams hold onto their stars for another year before they hit free agency and sign with the Yankees or Red Sox. The roster manipulation that goes on with super two is harmful to both the team and the player in my opinion. The team is harmed by not fielding the best players possible from opening day for fear they might lose a young player a year early by doing so, and the young player is hurt by losing a half a year of experience at the major league level. Overall I am happy that a new cba was reached without a strike or even the threat of a strike. I think the nba and nfl could learn a lot from mlb in that regard. I think that the nba is learning that a battle between millionaires and billionaires garners little public support or sympathy, and ultimately does long term damage to the sport.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:02 pm

There was a note indicating that "slot value" for the first four picks.. starting at $ 7.2 MM for the Number 1 Overall and down to around $ 4 MM for the fourth pick..it was a speculative value, so the actual values will have to be ferreted out in the coming months. The total dollar value was also stipulated (conjecture) to be no lower than $ 4.5 MM and no higher than $ 11.5 MM. So, this falls within the dollar value the Indians have spent for the last few drafts. The real burden will come from the "over slot" for a specific spot penalty. Taxing and taking away draft picks in future drafts appear to be the "stick" that will keep the teams "in line"..

The lottery selections (for revenue starved teams) should out weigh any losses in compensatory picks lost to the new CBA, imho. The teams that would be losing players to free agency at the ML level are usually the low budget teams, for the most part, so, it evens things up, or, perhaps, gives the low budget teams extra picks every year instead of just when they lose a player... In the future, there will not be a team that picks 10 of the first 85 players.. Other than the Rays.. no one has come close to getting that many picks at that high of a level in history..

Moving the signing date up = $$$.

There was a note in one of the articles that indicated that by 2014 the International Free Agents will be assimilated into the draft. The signing bonuses for International free agents will count toward the draft budget for each team, as well.. More of a level playing field all across the board, in other words...
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby JP_Frost » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:19 pm

One thing that isn't clear to me: people say that you can't exceed a $100K signing bonus after the 10th round, but is that still the case if it falls within the budget? For example, you have a total budget of $8M and spend half of that on the 1st 10 rounds, does that mean you still have $4M available for the later rounds which you can then spend on a single player if wanted?
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby ClevelandBlues » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:31 pm

I do like the elimination of the compensatory picks also. I think it was causing a lot of veteran players in the free agent market who otherwise deserved major league jobs to be passed over due to a combination of contract demands and the additional loss of a pick. I also think it was being manipulated by teams like the Red Sox who could afford to take on crappy overpaid players at the trade deadline just to get the picks.

I am not so sure moving up the signing deadline would cost teams more money. It seems like most of the high round picks and their agents basically sat on their hands from the time of the draft until about two days before the signing deadline. I do not think moving up the deadline will change that behavior at all, but it will result in less wasted time.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:01 pm

JP_Frost wrote:One thing that isn't clear to me: people say that you can't exceed a $100K signing bonus after the 10th round, but is that still the case if it falls within the budget? For example, you have a total budget of $8M and spend half of that on the 1st 10 rounds, does that mean you still have $4M available for the later rounds which you can then spend on a single player if wanted?


From what has been reported.. a slot value is established for a selection, let's say 8th round, $ 125K as an example. If the team takes a player and signs him for $ 250 K, then, because the team is over slot by more than X percent (there were two ranges given, but, for this example..we'll leave the details alone), that team has to pay a tax on the overage that goes against the draft budget. If the amount over the slot is X plus Y, then the team that signed the player for the over slot value has to pay a tax and loses a pick in a subsequent draft.

In other words.. there is some leeway in how much a player's bonus can be, but not a lot. If the team goes over slot, then there are two penalty stages: Stage One: Tax and Stage Two: Tax Plus Loss of Picks. This effectively limits the ability of a player like Justin Verlander from telling teams through his agent, don't pick me as I will only sign for $ xx,xxx,xxx.00 dollars thereby allowing him to "fall" to the 28th pick where he gets his REALLY HUGE signing bonus that teams picking earlier in the draft don't want to "pony up"..

While it doesn't stop a team from giving a huge/over slot signing bonus, it does create an obstacle..
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:03 am

I could have misunderstood it, but from what I read on Mlbtraderumors it appears it's by slot but also by overall budget, as well. For instance if a team fails to sign their third rd pk whose slot might be $500 k then they may spend it on let's say 2/3 other pks outside the top ten.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:29 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:I could have misunderstood it, but from what I read on Mlbtraderumors it appears it's by slot but also by overall budget, as well. For instance if a team fails to sign their third rd pk whose slot might be $500 k then they may spend it on let's say 2/3 other pks outside the top ten.


Mag.. I guess it's part of the 'curiosity' of what the changes actually mean.. and how it affects our Wahoo's. I see what you mean by the overall budget and, yes, it does say some thing about that. It seems like it will come down to what the actual slot values are. So, with the 15th pick in the 2012 Rule IV entry draft.. the Indians select: Victor Roache, the most powerful hitter in this draft class. Getting 30 home runs in just 60 games is AMAZING, and he did that with the new bats, you know, the ones that were supposed reduce homers? Roache can also play some first base along with being a corner OF'er. (BTW.. Buxton and Dahl wouldn't be bad choices, either)
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:10 pm

Bleacher Report has a three part article defining "Three Realistic Things" the Indians should do during the rest of this
off season:

1. Michael Morse Acquisition: This has been discussed as a potential target for the club. If the Nationals do get in on the Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols thing, then it would make some sense.. I don't know that JeanMar and Trevor Crowe would be a trade the Nats would bite on.. it might require a different package..

2. Hedge the Bet on Grady as the CF'er: If Grady and Brantley and the new CF'er, Coco Crisp were to be part of an OF rotation, then the Indians would vastly improve their depth.. It's the kind of move that makes WAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH SENSE, imho..

3. LoMo Acquisition: ridiculous suggestion.. it's not going to happen.. not this off season, not for what the Indians would be willing to part with.. maybe not ever..

BTW.. this is the same website that has Cord Phelps beating out Jason Donald for the Utility role with the Indians out of spring training.. IOW, take it for FWIW...
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:15 am

Okay, maybe I'm thinking outside the box a little bit but here's an idea... With the new CBA Cuban players under 23 are not considered FA's for instance Cespedes is a FA bc he's 26, while Jorge Soler is 19. In the future , potentially by 2014 a world draft could take place. For now Soler is subject to the $2.9 mil cap limit. Okay now call me crazy but what if the Tribe went all in on Soler offering him $2.9 mil and any added perks they could. It would be like getting another 1st rd draft pk. In fact teams can reportedly trade international signing cap space, why not try to acq. more from a team that doesn't usually act aggressively in the international market.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:49 am

JP_Frost wrote:One thing that isn't clear to me: people say that you can't exceed a $100K signing bonus after the 10th round, but is that still the case if it falls within the budget? For example, you have a total budget of $8M and spend half of that on the 1st 10 rounds, does that mean you still have $4M available for the later rounds which you can then spend on a single player if wanted?


Yes, you can exceed the $100K ceiling on post 10th round picks. The overage is added to the budget for the 1-10 picks. Teams can pay ANY amount for any of the 1-10 picks, but obviously if they blow their wad on one guy it leaves little money for anyone else. So, if the Indians were to say have an $8M budget and only spent $6M on their 1-10 picks, they would have $2M they could use as overage on signings in the 11-50th rounds.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:34 am

Just some things to think about with how people are explaining the rules:

1) If the total salary cap on draft is $11.5 to $4.5 and the range of first round is $7 to $1 million, that means you have $4 for rest of the picks. Factoring $750,000 for 2nd round and $300,00 for third round, that means about $3 million left. Of course the new rules may depress the bonuses even more. But for now, let's say the rest of 4-10 costs $1 million with no flyers, that leaves $2 million for splurging whereever in the draft -- including oversigning your first rounder.

2) I guess my theory, is why would you take a HS player in round 1 if you use $1 million or more of our $2 million cushion-unless you know they will sign for just over slot? You may take someone in round 2-3 with 1st round talent if you could just go over by $500,000 ... then you can do it for 3-4 guys by that amount and spread your risk and take a chance on top tier talent. Yet, is a Bundy or Brady who wanted $$$$ worth the risk versus taking 3-4 other 2nd tier prospects like Howard or others for which you spread your risk?

3) With the $100,000 excess in rounds 11-50, it may be interesting if teams use that cushion to their advantange. Will the new theory be to draft safe college signs in round 4-10 that will cost $100,000 - $200,000 max, then draft a bunch of HS kids in round 11-30 and offer $250,000 or a bit more and see who takes it? My thought is if you get 10 to sign at 250k you are counted at $150,000 (250,000-100,000) times 10 = $1.5 million for rounds 11-30. If you sign a slightly better prospect in round 4-10 for $500,000, you can only doing 3 or 4 kids to reach your $2 million cap number. Is the 3-4 better prospects worth the cap space versus getting 10 other HS kids with potential? Makes an intersting what if ... 10 HS players using $100,000 cushion means $1 million saved against the cap versus taking your typical college filler in those rounds (as you can just push that back to rounds 30-50).

Before the cap, $250,000 or more in signing bonus in round 4-10 wasn't that big of deal to get the kid you wanted. But now, that and $100,000 cushion in round 11-50 may be too much to gamble on HS kids in 4-10 rounds? But will kids sign? In prior years, HS kids would go back to school, at least JUCO route hoping for $1 million payday and get college experience. Yet, now that $1 million is only going to 20 - 40 top kids in rounds 1 and 2, will HS kids settle for 4 round money of 250k, knowing they won't get much more unless they are top tier talent and will most likely only top out at $1/2 million on average if they make it into late 2nd round talent?

Will be interesting.....

Another thing ... hasn't been noted (just inferred), yet Cleveland looks to be in bottom 10 in revenue ... per 4/10 Forbes article (on 2009 revenue). And, the are also just at the bottom 10 in market share per Baseball Almanac - and with other cities growing (Minn, SD, STL, Col, ..) - we should be safe on this for years to come.

2,968,806 Minnesota Twins
2,945,831 Cleveland Indians
2,813,833 San Diego Padres
2,603,607 St Louis Cardinals
2,581,506 Colorado Rockies
2,395,997 Tampa Bay Devil Rays
2,358,695 Pittsburgh Pirates
1,979,202 Cincinnati Reds
1,776,062 Kansas City Royals
1,689,572 Milwaukee Brewers

So, with 6 teams getting extra 1st rounder, we should do relatively well factoring in we are in the middle on WL record last year.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:55 am

Maybe I'm being dense but:

If you can exceed slot on one pick & pay for it by going under slot for prior/subsequent picks, without incurring the overslot tax, why have slots at all? Why not just mandate a total draft budget that the teams can't exceed, then let the teams spend it however they want?
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:29 pm

Another thing; I don't like a lottery deciding the extra picks. We all know some deserving team is going to get left out. Being Tribe fans, we know which team I mean.

Lotteries are chancy. I was in Orlando when the Magic won the lottery two years in a row. In the 2nd year, the '93 draft, they had the best record of the lottery teams & the fewest ping pong balls. Being Tribe fans, we know that would never happen for us.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:15 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Maybe I'm being dense but:

If you can exceed slot on one pick & pay for it by going under slot for prior/subsequent picks, without incurring the overslot tax, why have slots at all? Why not just mandate a total draft budget that the teams can't exceed, then let the teams spend it however they want?


To figure out a fair budget, you need to at least put a slot number on the first 10 rounds picks like they do in the NFL to figure out the total team budget. Slot may be less of an issue now with a team budget, but how can you figure out the total for a team with two 1sts compared to a team with none.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:19 pm

According to Jim Callis at BA: "More from exec: If you don't sign a pick, you lose his cap value. You can't not sign 1st-rder & spend his $ elsewhere."

Ouch. So it looks like you can't play that game of not signing certain picks in the first 10 rounds and using the money in later rounds. Also really limits the overage amount even more for post 10th round picks.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:21 pm

TonyIPI wrote:According to Jim Callis at BA: "More from exec: If you don't sign a pick, you lose his cap value. You can't not sign 1st-rder & spend his $ elsewhere."

Ouch. So it looks like you can't play that game of not signing certain picks in the first 10 rounds and using the money in later rounds. Also really limits the overage amount even more for post 10th round picks.

This is looking more & more like "How to eff up the draft 101".

This is how much you can spend. If you go over you're taxed. Don't make selections that you're not sure you can sign. If you don't sign them you're S.O.L. You may qualify for post Round 1 & 2 lotteries but if your number doesn't come up you're S.O.L. You may prefer high upside HS kids but we're going to make it more attractive for them to attend college by limiting their contract demand options.

Who do all of these changes help & who do they hurt? They don't help the players; they limit their abilities to earn whatever they can negotiate. They don't help the smaller market teams; they limit the team's ability to go after top end talent in the only arena the small market teams have had an advantage: see Tampa, Pittsburgh, et al. So who's left? Who could afford to overpay for talent that drops, possibly paying double the slot price(slot+100% tax) without any undue financial stress? Pretty much as it is in Free Agency. The top guys will be going to NY, Boston, Phiily, Cal...

I'd bet that most of these moves are Selig's ideas. I think it really irked him that his slotting "suggestions" have been largely ignored. Now, with his willing accomplices(the majority of the ML clubs), he's finally got the system he always wanted, i.e., control by the commisar, I mean Commish.

Another thing. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Brewers have the smallest market in MLB & that one of the criteria for the lotteries is market size. Can you say conflict of interest??? This area also favors the Cardinals, who really need the help.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:53 pm

Don't judge the new rules that harshly. I think that even though we went over slot at times, the new rules will help us a bit. In that if we are in the top 5 like 2010, we will have $2.5 million for our first round pick. Then the rule will be 50% overage also allocated ... so that is an additional $1.25. If we go Drew again, we have an extra $1.15 million for Lavinsky and/or Wolters or to go big on someone like Howard (even though $700 sloted for 2nd round would be $1 million anyways - a fair amount for a HS player as they won't get $2 million again unless they are top 5 talent when they come out).

So, for us, we will have really 2 - 1sts compared to a NY that just has $1.5 million ($1 million for last pick plus 50%). I am equating the extra $1.15 to a first rounder compared to who NY can get at $1/2 million as an extra 1st. Then, if we pick up one of the 6 picks after the 1st round, then we can have up to 3 firsts plus a high 2nd rounder that will be like a Supplemental 1st without all the extra picks.

I think the bigger issue that no one is talking about is the trade value at July deadline. At first, I thought it may hurt the value you can get out of a fringe guy as the buyer won't have 2 picks as a ways to justify giving up too much. Yet, CC and Lee will always have the value they do (eventhough it was never as much as we thought). Plus, with the extra WC, we will have more teams to trade to if we aren't in contention so it may offset the decline in value due to no picks for many of the players traded.

The other issue is if 1st round picks wait until the last minute to sign (especially next year), you will not know how to spend your allocated money. 1st off, if you have $10 million and your first rounder can take up to $7 million, you have to wait until 1st rounder is signed before you know how if you can go overslot on 2nd or 3rd rounder. Also, if you want to sign 1st rounder to slightly more than slot (e.g. like we did with Drew P.), you can't technically use the extra 50% allocated to your team until he is officially signed.

Thus, I think drafting a HS guy in 1st round will be difficult. You want someone who will agree to sign 2 weeks before deadline so you have time to work around all the other issues on what is left to go after a draft and follow guy.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:22 pm

Can tell you first hand talking to the Indians the last few days that the new deal hurts us. They are not happy about it at all.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:18 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Can tell you first hand talking to the Indians the last few days that the new deal hurts us. They are not happy about it at all.

What's not to like? According to pete we get three Firsts, a high Second, and get to spend 50% over slot. Seriously, who could bitch about that?
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:40 pm

Tony, can you shed any insights on how the draft is going to hurt the Indians in their opinion? I can see a lot of teams complaining about it ... however, sometimes it is those who complain the least that benefits. (meaning a lot of people complain about new rules ... even those that it is meant to help as it does take away in some areas and adds back in others). It will take away some upside for the Indians ... but when it all shakes out, it can help them when they are trying to rebuild and draft high which is 1/2 the time or more.

Just looking at some BA numbers and over 2007-2011, Indians spent $33 million on the draft compared to $31 million. So do we go over slot? At times, but I think 2010 was the outlier (and 2007 we had no piacks). We did go overslot in 2011 most noteably for Lindor, Howard and Haase -but we were 12th in spending and drafted 7th. Other teams outspent us like Boston and Rays (due to extra picks) and other teams like Giants and NY came close to outspending us even though their new budget would be $4 million. So, yes we spent more $, but more than not others spent more cap wise. This at least starts to even the playing field that other teams knew about and were taking advantage of draft spending -- especially international.

For the few players that we lose via the cap in spending, I think we will start seeing better players in 3 years when this year's HS crop goes to college. Thus, drafting high and getting a supplemental pick for small market will start to see dividends than not being able to sign Howard in 50th slot of 2nd round as we would have picked in the 30s and early 40s. Plus, guys going more where they were suppose to be drafted than falling to NY and Boston for signing issues, should strengthen the top end of 2nd and 3rd rounds even more.

And, if they do add an international draft as they are starting to talk about more and more, doesn't that also help let alone bring everyone down to realisitic levels on spending where the best players are now more in our price range?

I think the biggest draw back is that you need a good $s person to get everyone signed early (and drafting towards college players helps us there) and knowing that a HS player who eats cap plus 50% may not have the upside as drafting a college guy at cap and spending 50% on someone else (or 3-4 people after round 10 for $250k each). If anything, this is make all teams complain ... make FO jobs harder.

Also , if our biggest success was identifying fringe international players those signed around $100k to $250k, isn't this where the draft is going to? Find those HS guys that are full of themselves yet for not bring in the top 3 rounds and wanting to go JUCO to get $500k next year in rounds 1 or 2 rather wanting to take some $ (250k or so) plus college tuition to start their careers?

And, I think the demands of HS players will come down (no more $1 million but closer to 500k) as they realize even if they go JUCO, they won't get that $1 million payday as many others gotten in the past. Do you think Lindor would hold out for $2.9 million when the highest salary is going to be $4 million if you are the top pick and the cap slot is less than $2? Do you think Howard would not have signed for $1.5 million if we had a $1 million cap drafting in the 30s (cap plus 50%)? So it would have cost us Hasse ... but we probably would have gotten an extra pick in 1st round and our best players were signed before the deadline -- Myles, Smith,
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:53 am

At the end of the day, the amount of money being spent won't change to a greater or less degree.. who it's spent on will be what is changed. The number of rounds has been reduced from 50 to 40. 50 rounds was a ridiculous number, anyway. There is also a new element to the "draft but didn't sign" picks.. Instead of getting a compensatory pick in the same slot the player didn't sign in the subsequent draft, the team will now get a second bite of the apple.. that is..if the player chosen in the subsequent draft doesn't sign, then the team will receive an addition pick in the next draft as well. It's pretty obvious that the signing bonuses primarily of prep school stars or junior/sophomore eligible players, or lack thereof, will be taken by those players (and their blood sucking agents) as a sign of disrespect to that player and what they are worth.. so, that player will return to school or go to college/JUCO. Not entirely a bad thing..

Does this help or hurt the Indians? I.D.K.. but it seems like, with the lottery picks and the second bite of the apple for non-signings, teams like the Indians should benefit..
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:18 pm

No offense to Pete, but I don't understand his initial posting or know where he is getting all of that from.

Bottom line, with the new process, forget the Bryce Stowells, TJ Houses, Dillon Peters, etc being signed or close to signed in the post-10th rounds. A lot of creativity and flexibility has been removed as a result of the changes. Also it is going to be hard to sign all of your Top 10 picks and do anything after the 10th round unless you are signing college seniors or low upside goes. Indians in the last 2-3 years had just started taking lots of risks in the draft, but it really limits that a lot going forward. They may still do some things to counteract the changes, but from a pure talent acquisition standpoint it is a constrictive system that really limits what a team can do unless they want to pay those taxes and lose picks.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby OhioBaseball » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:10 pm

TonyIPI wrote:No offense to Pete, but I don't understand his initial posting or know where he is getting all of that from.

Bottom line, with the new process, forget the Bryce Stowells, TJ Houses, Dillon Peters, etc being signed or close to signed in the post-10th rounds. A lot of creativity and flexibility has been removed as a result of the changes. Also it is going to be hard to sign all of your Top 10 picks and do anything after the 10th round unless you are signing college seniors or low upside goes. Indians in the last 2-3 years had just started taking lots of risks in the draft, but it really limits that a lot going forward. They may still do some things to counteract the changes, but from a pure talent acquisition standpoint it is a constrictive system that really limits what a team can do unless they want to pay those taxes and lose picks.


This may be a second or third order effect, but I think this is probably good for major league teams' investments. Too many risks have been taken in recent years on HS talent and even less developed college sophomores. Small market teams took these risks b/c they felt they had to -- they need young talent to come through their system b/c they can't play in the free agent market. Too much risk can have detrimental impacts (see the financial crisis of 2008).

Instead of paying Tony Wolters 1.35 million out of high school, let him go to college and prove that he's more Pedroia than Carroll, rather than speculating that he *could* be a Pedroia-like prospect and paying up on that speculation. Let Lavisky prove that he can use his tools in real game situations at Georgia Tech for 2-3 years rather than paying him first round money. Both may turn out OK, but the Indians overspent on these guys b/c they need prospects to compete in MLB.

I listened to a draft signing podcast done by BA in August -- the focus was on signing players. There were tons of HS guys that were asking for 1st, early 2nd round money. It was overwhelmingly ridiculous to me -- There's ONLY 30 FIRST ROUND SELECTIONS but two or three times as many players wanting that money...many of them got it! It just screamed of overvaluation of HS draft prospects (if you're not a first rounder, you're not a first rounder). Way too much speculation. Dillon Peters and Stephen Tarpley asking for late first round money was ridiculous -- neither is close to that type of prospect and I'm glad the Indians didn't give in to them.

Speculation led to overspending. Let's take some of that speculation out so teams don't waste as much money and have more guys go to college, allowing scouts to get a look at them develop physically and from a skill perspective.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:03 am

I'll post some stuff on the draft in my Sunday notebook as I have a few quotes I may use. In a nutshell, the draft gives an advantage to no team. Teams will be hardpressed to go over slot for any player since it is very easy to go 5.1% over and lose your 1st round pick. Also, the draft will essentially end after the 10th round. Few players will be signed in excess of $100K and the ones that do will probably get at most $200K. No more fliers on guys like Stowell, House, Licecum, etc in the late rounds. Impossible to sign now.

Have also heard that with the new system, the Indians would not have been able to re-create the drafts they had in 2008, 2010 and 2011 under it. They spent more money in those drafts and went overslot several times and signed late round fliers to big bonuses. Even if they would have made more senior signs they still would have been way over the budget. Say good bye to that strategy now.

This hurts all teams and every team has to follow what is essentially a hard slotting rule now.....so no one gets an advantage. But it hurts the Indians as they can no longer take advantage of the opportunity to spend freely on the draft and take lots of late round fliers as they have recently. Will be interesting to see what they (and other clubs) do this year.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:14 pm

Hey Tony .... the thing that I am trying to get at is that if I were Pittsburg or Washington, I would be pissed. However, even though Indians would have gone over those years, so did many other teams and some like NY and Boston did it more so based on where they were sloted. So, yes, our hands are tied now, but so are everyone elses. And, the question is, based on the trades of Byrd, CC, Lee, Martinez and others that saved a few million those years (even though Martinez and Lee were in 2009) did some of that money go to the draft in 2010? Thus, even though we went over, was it as aggressive as others? So, tie our hands, isn't that bad if 1/2 the other teams were doing so already. Note, even though 2011 we went over, our spending was right about average -- spent 8.2 compared to 7.6 average. http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra ... ures-2011/

So yes you can't recreate that .... but in 3 years, the top end of 2nd and 3rd round would be more talented ladden due to no one else doing it as well. And, without the supplemental picks going to everyone, we jump 10-20 slots up with the possibility of getting an extra 1st or 2nd. And, if it means us getting more involved in international talent pool that we were once priced out of, I think that is the key. It is not like other teams knew about our "secret" draft strategy. They were doing it to. Now if we are drafting 5th/7th, we should be able to spend more than anyone else (12th) -- not, finish in the middle of the pack and then cry fool that tying the hands of others will not make the process more fair as others were doing it more and more and jumping us. If things were not changed, it would have made the draft go towards what the international market where NY and Boston would have just bought players more and more as they were doing.

If you want to show the real effect (hopefully BA is doing this) is take the last 3 years and show the cap under new system and compare it to what teams spent ... even though we were in top end of team spending, we would have probably been middle of the pack or below how how much we spent per where we drafted.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:23 pm

Does the CBA changes create a vacuum or cause of action for the Indians with respect to the current crop of International Free Agents.. such as Jorge Soler, Iwakuma, Yu Darvish.. and, of course, Yo-anus Cespedes?..

Will this give the Indians added motivation to make a "purchase"? :dunno:
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:57 pm

I guess that whether you like the changes or not depends on whether you favor laissez faire or a command economy.

I personally would rather rely on our own judgement, that of Grant & the scouts, than having Big Brother Bud tying to "save us from ourselves".

OB brings up Dillon & Tarpley. He considers their demands for 1st round money laughable(so did I); Guess what? So did the FO. We didn't sign them. The market worked.

I don't agree with the "shared suffering, it sucks for everyone, so it's fair" argument either. It's NOT fair to the players. When do we get a cap on what free agents can be paid? Minus that, the draft should remain an area where the worst/poorest/smallest market teams have the advantage that the rich/large market teams have in free agency. Even then, as I posted before, it's much riskier to splurge on some 17yr old HS kid than it is on Prince Fielder.

To pete's point about the possibility of an extra pick via the lottery, no offense pete but there will still be comp picks for lost FA's, they will still be slotted right after the 1st round, so even the 1st lottery pick will probably be in the 40's. That's hardly an extra 1st rounder.
Now I realize my position is contradictory as the draft process is hardly laissez faire; to have a truly free market every eligible player would be a FA. So even though conceding the need for a draft, I believe that after establishing the draft it should be as unrestricted as possible.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:16 pm

I can't get into it much, but straight from the Indians they absolutely do not like the new draft setup. Destroys any chance to be creative in the draft and limits the amount of talent they can acquire. THey had just changed their philosophy and were starting to spend more.....now it is likely back to the "safe" draft approach to ensure you sign your picks. Obviously all teams will be mostly adopting the safe approach now, but this is where it hurts the Indians as they like the Pirates, etc were more willing of late to take gambles and fliers on guys and sign those $300-$750K guys in later rounds....or take 1-2 round talent in the 6-10th rounds....not anymore.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:58 pm

Rocky55 -- Yes there is an exta pick still given for loss of top players if you give them 1-year contract equal to top-125 players. Haven't see that number but I would assume it would be $10 million ... so what 10 people a year get this in FA (others are locked up before the contract is up)? Some don't leave their team and others aren't on the team for a year to be eligible for compensation.

I guess my whole argument boils down to how do you create a system that rewards small markets and we point to the draft. Yet, after fist 3-4 rounds, the "rich" teams were doing what with we wanted to do but didn't have Pitts or Washington draft budget to do it right. So, to preserve the draft in it's old form was just going to make it worse as NY and Boston was learning from Pitsburgh. Agree with FA, we will always be behind the 8-ball. Yet, the draft was turning into the international draft where we only got the best players by drafting high in the first round after that the big teams pumped up the market going after HS players in round 4-50. NY and Boston and others were signing just as much if not more aggressively than we were - so Tony we change and so did 2/3rds of the other teams. So, I guess my question is if a small market team with a bad record can use $8 million on draft (which is what we spent last year) and a large market who wins only has $4.5 million, doesn't this equate to about 2 times better talent - if we pay based on talent level? The issue was NY was spending almost as much as we were and drafting later -- so they were just as agressive as we were and getting equivalent talent throwing out 1st rounders of Pom and Lindor. So they made up for drafting late by being more agressive as we were. So does limiting the budget hurt us more or them? The teams who are benefiting are larger clubs in mid-size markets like Detroit and Chicago (assuming they have mainly the population south of downtown -- not as good of draw as Cubs) who spent the money they had on FA tagets and skimped on draft. Yet, if 2011 was an "aggressive draft" and we were 12th in spending while picking 7th, aren't we just middle of the pack??? Sorry, I always wanted Indians to be more like Pittsburgh ... but since they aren't these changes aren't that big of a loss for me especially as we should be drafting higher the next few years before our window closes and before HS players go to college for 3-years and stocking up the draft when we are back in the basement with the loss of Masterson, Jiminez, Choo, Astrubal, ....

The bigger issue is going to be what happens to the trade value in July as the new team won't get comp picks to offset the level of talen they trade. I think that will hurt us more unless the extra WC pushes more teams into trades that drives up the loss of assumed value in type-a/b FAs.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby petes999 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 pm

Just saw the flaw in my thinking ... the issue is not being as aggressive as NY, Boston, Cubs, Pittsbugh ... (because we weren't like Pittsburgh -- sorry). The issue was being more aggressive than Det, Chi and Min (even though they have gone big in international) to offset their FA advantage in spending.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby danh8 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:29 am

The deal in the draft now is, out-scout your competition ....then, if you do and get great players ...ride them until they leave for the major markets when they are in their prime years. Baseball won't get it right until the small market owners grow balls and stand up for true competitive balance. But, unfortunately too many small market owners are simply content to play the system for the guaranteed financial gain if they don't push the envelope and try to be more than their market dictates they should be.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:22 am

danh8 wrote:The deal in the draft now is, out-scout your competition ....then, if you do and get great players ...ride them until they leave for the major markets when they are in their prime years. Baseball won't get it right until the small market owners grow balls and stand up for true competitive balance. But, unfortunately too many small market owners are simply content to play the system for the guaranteed financial gain if they don't push the envelope and try to be more than their market dictates they should be.


hmmm... Interesting take..

What would your comment be regarding the need for immediate performance (ML results) versus the slow but steady building of a club and it's minor leagues for eventual ML contention?

Example: The Yankees aren't going to "wait" for a prospect to be ready at the ML level.. THEY MUST WIN NOW.. every year.. To do that, they have to trade multiple "farm system gems"(FSG's) to a team like the Indians that may have the one piece the NYY's have to have NOW. The Indians didn't draft those FSG's. The Indians didn't pay signing bonuses to those FSG's.

Doesn't this eventually lead to windows of contention for the small market clubs?. If the small market clubs continue to fill their supply pipeline with increasingly more talented FSG's, doesn't the window of contention stay open for longer and longer time?. Aren't the Tampa Rays playing this game to perfection? i.e.by taking advantage of the urgency of the large market clubs to fill their roster with FSGs today.. FSG's tomorrow..and FSG's forever?

btw.. the risk is higher..
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:02 pm

Somebody with a better understanding of this CBA may know but aren't international free agents only considered major league free agents (Cespedes) if over the age of 26. Others under the age of 23 are subject to the new $2.9 mil international free agent spending cap. I say all of this to say if that's the case it evens the market for a player like Jorge Soler (age 19). Now if MLB funnels all players under 23 through the draft than it drives the price of 'amatuer' players down but completely levels the playing field.
For small market teams like the Tribe it seriously hurts, there's no room for error with the top 10 pks.
Ideally, I suppose this was supposed to funnel the talent upward in the draft to the teams that are allocated money but I just can't see teams using that approach. Small market teams may be more inclined to go after safer pks who will sign rather than draft and sign the guys that talented. For the players theres got to be a way around it. Maybe it's by signing short term deals that allows them free agency or at least new contracts where they could resign with the same club but at more money.
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Re: "Competitive Balance Lottery"

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:02 am

Came across a link to Perfect Game's year end summary article, and thought I'd share it:

. New CBA set to curtail bonus influx
Since teams were clearly not paying much attention to the pre-determined slot recommendations from Major League Baseball's commissioner's office, it was time for the draft to be seriously re-defined with the introduction of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. In previous years, there had been big rumors about potential changes to the draft, but only small changes were made along the way.

Mission accomplished.

The biggest of the changes is that MLB will now assign a slot value to every pick within the top 10 rounds, and every team will be given a draft pool based on the picks they own within those rounds. While teams don't have to pay a player the designated amount based on the slot, their overall expenditures can't exceed the assigned pool value without being subject to a penalty.

For more details on how the new CBA will affect the draft, and for an updated draft order due to free agent compensation, please visit this story.


The Patrick Ebert story referred to above can been seen at:

http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/Vie ... ticle=6410

With Cleveland getting just two of the first seventy nine picks, the top of the draft has to be pristine, i.e. no room for error..
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