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Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

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Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:15 pm

Andy Marte left the game injured Tuesday night. A major disappoinment any way you slice it. I can't see them keeping him for next year. Does he have any trade value? Anybody have any thoughts?

My guess is that Peralta and Cabrera will shift next year, with a mystery infielder taking 2nd.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:04 pm

The whole Marte situation is an enigma. I could see them keeping him all offseason and take him into ST....it is just the way they operate sometimes. Personally, I DFA him and be rid of him. He has nil trade value, and it is time to move on. He's had enough chances. If he goes elsewhere and performes, so be it.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby jellis » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:34 pm

I think he might go to a crappy team and be decent, he has admited to pressing way too much
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby gorman8621 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:46 am

Consigliere wrote:The whole Marte situation is an enigma. I could see them keeping him all offseason and take him into ST....it is just the way they operate sometimes. Personally, I DFA him and be rid of him. He has nil trade value, and it is time to move on. He's had enough chances. If he goes elsewhere and performes, so be it.


Agreed. We can't keep guys around who don't perform just so they won't go somewhere else and produce. If they aren't putting up the numbers here, they are wasting space. I'll never blame the management for Phillips, Ludwick, etc. They had their chances.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:26 am

gorman8621 wrote:I'll never blame the management for Phillips, Ludwick, etc. They had their chances.


Of all the guys they have DFAed over the last 5-6 years under Shapiro or not protected from the Rule 5, the only player I still get upset about is Phillips. All the other DFAs, feh. Or the guys lost in Rule 5, feh. But the way they handled Phillips was a disaster, and he never got a second chance because of Wedge.

I've talked about the BP debacle many times, and just point people to my thoughts on it in an article I wrote two years ago:

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/article_ ... php?id=886
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby gorman8621 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:00 pm

I guess you would know more private details than me. I was just always under the impression that he had a horrible attitude (until the end), and that is why he was never given a real second chance.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby npc29 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:15 pm

The talent is there, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did without either talent or drive. But given the performance he has put on with the lofty expectations thrown onto the shoulders, he probably isn't worth it. If he's this bad with the pressure thrown on him, then just think how he'd be when the pressure is really on him. Say, in a playoff race.

Guess you can't estimate the mental aspect of a prospect. Oh well... I like Marte, but I do agree. He is done with this organization. Be it now or after he wastes away in spring training.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:39 pm

Phillips wasn't DFA because of the RULE V draft, it was because he was out of minor league options (nitpicky differnce).

I also could see Marte staying with the tribe all winter. Crazy idea.....what if he can be taught to play 2B this winter? Learned 1B and played there in a ML game (albeit only once). Lots of young guys have moved from 3B to 2B (Baerga, Belliard, Uggla, DeWitt, LaRoche, etc). If Marte can learn to play 2B, he'd have some value to this team as a 2nd utility guy (or making Carroll expendable even). He plays a very good 3B (defense isn't his problem). Doesn't have the speed you'd like from a utility guy....but if he can manage to be an adequate enough pinch hitter, I'd look at keeping him around. I think one of Marte or Aubrey will be on the bench next year......personally I'd take Marte since he can play more than 1 position....but we'll see (also a good chance both are gone though).

And like it was said in another thread, the Tribe needs to develop a utility guy in their system. I don't think Rodriguez is to that point yet (same with Barfield).....but Marte could be....
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:30 pm

Marte does not have the footspeed or quickness to play up the middle. And his glove would stuggle there. To lumbersome.....he's stuck at 3B or 1B.

I hope to God they don't keep him on this roster all winter. Time to cut ties with him now.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:42 am

Uggla isn't swift footed, nor was Baerga (though more than marte). People tend to forget that Uggla played more at 3B than 2B in the minors. Ian Stewart is another guy that's big and was moved to 2B out of need (though is gonna be moving back to 3B). Marte has a very good glove at 3B, and would be adequate enough at 2B. Not saying he'd be a great fit there, but he's manage and be as good as an Uggla or Kent there...

And let's not forget, the Indians have put Branyan, Sexson, and Broussard in the OF.....where none had the footspeed or quickness to play (especially Branyan and Sexson). The first two were even our primarty LFer for 2 seasons, not just fill-ins.....


Tribe kept Marte all year....unless we package him in a trade, I don't see him getting let go....think Shapiro is too hardheaded to do that....but we'll see...
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:07 am

Hermie13 wrote:Uggla isn't swift footed, nor was Baerga (though more than marte). People tend to forget that Uggla played more at 3B than 2B in the minors. Ian Stewart is another guy that's big and was moved to 2B out of need (though is gonna be moving back to 3B). Marte has a very good glove at 3B, and would be adequate enough at 2B. Not saying he'd be a great fit there, but he's manage and be as good as an Uggla or Kent there...

And let's not forget, the Indians have put Branyan, Sexson, and Broussard in the OF.....where none had the footspeed or quickness to play (especially Branyan and Sexson). The first two were even our primarty LFer for 2 seasons, not just fill-ins.....


Tribe kept Marte all year....unless we package him in a trade, I don't see him getting let go....think Shapiro is too hardheaded to do that....but we'll see...



The difference with Uggla and Kent as 2Bmen compared to Marte is that they can hit! Teams will put up with less than average defense if they get above average offense.... as it stands, Marte would need to improve dramatically offensively to even reach below average - offensively, he's about the level of pond scum at this point in his career.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:37 pm

The difference is they START.....all I'm saying is Marte could be a backup there.

People also tend to forget that Marte is still pretty young. He's less than 1 year older than Hodges, whom everyone seems to be so high on! He can have some value to this team....


And not that it means anything....but did play a game at 2B in the minors way back when (albeit in the GCL, lol).
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:52 pm

Marte has zero value. He simply cannot hit.

It would be one thing if he was a poor hitter, but offered some intangibles off the bench with loads of versatility to play 4-5 positions and had some speed to be a pinch runner. But he doesn't.

Time to let him go.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:27 pm

I know I'm being very overly optimistic here.......but Marte did hit decetnly well down the stretch (around a .270 average in Aug-Sept and .297 in Sept). Not saying he's earned the right to be on the club next year......but call me crazy (go ahead, I won't take offense) I still like this kid. If we sent him down to AA where Hodges was we'd be saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was rushed WAY too fast to the majors and it's killed his development. I really wish we could somehow get him to the minors again because he needs some consistent playing time, and I think then he'll figure things out....
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:31 pm

The difference is Marte has over 2500 minor league at bats, Hodges has less than 900.

Age wise Marte might only be a year older, but his lack of progress, in fact his regression over such a large number of at bats doesn't really bode well for him turning into anything useful.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:45 pm

Marte has more minor league at-bats because he didn't go to college and played in the low levels, unlike Hodges.

At their first stint at high A, both guys had .840 OPSs (.841 for Marte, .840 for Hodges) and each had 15 HRs and 60 RBIs (16HR/63RBI for Marte, 15HR/71RBI for Hodges)....difference, Marte was a staggering 19 years old, while Hodges was 22.

Not saying I don't think Hodges will be good....just that Marte showed the same promise and would likely still be showing that same promise had he not been rushed along so fast and got more time in the lower minor league levels at a younger age. Marte showed more power (what you want at the hot corner) and better D......And their minor league OPS's are nearly identical for their careers (.823 for Marte, .829 for Hodges).

This kid still has talent.....hate to see it go (but I agree, he's likely to be gone).....
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:26 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Marte has more minor league at-bats because he didn't go to college and played in the low levels, unlike Hodges.

At their first stint at high A, both guys had .840 OPSs (.841 for Marte, .840 for Hodges) and each had 15 HRs and 60 RBIs (16HR/63RBI for Marte, 15HR/71RBI for Hodges)....difference, Marte was a staggering 19 years old, while Hodges was 22.

Not saying I don't think Hodges will be good....just that Marte showed the same promise and would likely still be showing that same promise had he not been rushed along so fast and got more time in the lower minor league levels at a younger age. Marte showed more power (what you want at the hot corner) and better D......And their minor league OPS's are nearly identical for their careers (.823 for Marte, .829 for Hodges).

This kid still has talent.....hate to see it go (but I agree, he's likely to be gone).....


The crux of my arguement was not that Marte has more ABs, the main point was that as he has gotten more and more exposure to pro ball his game has regressed - like I said, not exactly good signs of things to come.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:36 pm

Bottom line, even though they are the same age, Marte has reached his ceiling and bottomed out at the major league level. He is trending the wrong way, whereas Hodges is still trending upward and has yet to plateau or hit that proverbial wall Marte did. I mean, even given almost an entire season in Buffalo in 2007 he was a disaster. Marte is not the first or last highly regarded prospect to bomb....Hodges may very well bomb too, but we don't know yet.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:51 am

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Marte is good or will be a star.....just throwing an opposing take on him. What's the fun in talking about him if everyone thinks he should just be dumped?

I can see him becoming a Ryan Ludwick....finding his groove way late. Not saying we should hang onto him til his late 20s or that the Tribe screwed up by letting Ludwick go (several teams did as he didn't show much). Playing in the minors really helped Ludwick......just wish Marte could get the same treatment and with the Tribe.....but doesn't look likely. A team like Seattle would likely claim him off waivers. Likely to move Beltre...they're not going anywhere and he'd be ok with them. SF could even use him perhaps over at 3B.

Not a ton of options....so maybe there's a shot he makes it through to the minors......but doubtful...
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:07 am

I'm all for keeping a guy like Marte around.....but he just fits nowhere on the major league roster. Even if they sent him to the minors, he doesn't fit anywhere. Would you want him taking playing time from Hodges at 3B? Or if he was moved to 1B take playing time from any combo of Brown, Aubrey or even Whitney? He's become expendable. He had his chance here and got several opportunities, but just never performed. If he goes elsewhere and finds it so be it. That happens sometimes, and if it does I will have no second thoughts knowing he just simply ran out of time as an Indian.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:17 am

Whitney is likely gone though (minor league free agent)...and even if he's not, he'll be at AA. And I'd rather give those ABs to Marte anyways than Whitney. I really like that guy....but he's only a 1B now and lost most of his value to this club IMO.

The DH spot could be open at Columbus as well (one of Aubrey/Marte will likely make the club).

And if Hodges does get traded this winter....Marte would be nice to keep around as a backup option at 3B....


I too think he's gone....but also think there's still a decent shot he's brought back.....
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:19 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Whitney is likely gone though (minor league free agent)...and even if he's not, he'll be at AA. And I'd rather give those ABs to Marte anyways than Whitney. I really like that guy....but he's only a 1B now and lost most of his value to this club IMO.

The DH spot could be open at Columbus as well (one of Aubrey/Marte will likely make the club).

And if Hodges does get traded this winter....Marte would be nice to keep around as a backup option at 3B....


I too think he's gone....but also think there's still a decent shot he's brought back.....



really I think whitney will stay just because he was treated well and expect him to DH at Columbus this year
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:51 pm

Even if he doesn't leave via free agency, he's eligible for the Rule V draft again (was taken last year then returned). Possible he could get taken again (though doubtful he sticks again). Only a .760OPS at AA (first stint at AA as well) isn't that great really for a 1B/DH. I can see him at Columbus at some point perhaps, but not to start the year. I like Head more than him as well......not sure how the Tribe really feels though.

Obviously I'm not the best person to talk about the minors, but just how I see it....
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby carnegie44115 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:09 pm

But am I correct when drafted a second time in the Rule 5, all they have to do is keep him on the 40 man roster?
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby TonyIBI » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:20 pm

No Carn....same rules apply for guys drafted a second time as the first time.

And Whitney is not being drafted.
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Re: Marte is done. But is he done with the Tribe?

Postby carnegie44115 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:01 pm

Consigliere wrote:No Carn....same rules apply for guys drafted a second time as the first time.

And Whitney is not being drafted.



Really? Well thats good to hear then. I forget where I read it, but maybe that was from in the past.
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