Indians Prospect Insider - Covering the Cleveland Indians from the Minors to the Big Leagues

Rule V Eligibility

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:00 pm

Duane Kuiper wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Mastny is out of options as well....but don't think he's cut either.

He was on the 2007 team the whole year (one of only 3 relivers to do that, Betancourt and Borowski were the other two). Has too much value to just let go, though wouldn't rule out a trade.

Mastny still has one option left because of what you said about 07.

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/teamContractDetail.php?theme=indians&season=2009


He has two options left actually.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Duane Kuiper » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:03 pm

Hermie, you are overvaluing the prospects.

Aubrey is out of options and will be 27 next year and he has a huge injury history. He is no longer a prospect and has zero trade value.

Tony, is your options left list up to date as of the end of the 08 season?

Mujica has zero trade value too. 6+ ERA and out of options. Teams can get guys off of waivers that are better than him.

When a player is out of options then it limits the acquiring team to putting him on the ML roster. Since these guys haven't done a thing on ML rosters yet, they will have very limited playing time. That will limit how much development that they can do.

Tony, are your options left current as of the end of the 08 season?
Duane Kuiper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Yes, options list is updated when I did the 2009 payroll.

Also, Aubrey will get a 4th option year. Actually writing about that for tomorrow.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:27 pm

hmm, thought he was optioned to Buffalo then taken off in 2007 (right at the start of the year when Matt Miller was suppose to make the club but went on the DL)....but must not have been.

Guess it's the same thing as Sowers in 2006 then....but thought he was optioned once that year (again, guess not). Makes him a lock to stay on the 40-man then IMO. Had a great year at Buffalo....struggled in Cleveland but still a nice depth guy to have in the bullpen.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:31 pm

Mujica will likely make the bullpen out of ST if not traded though. Tribe doesn't have to trade him and they like his arm (as do others). Has struggled at the big league level but better than a lot of alternatives.

And as stated, Aubrey's 4th option year will help. If he can prove to stay healthy at AAA....he could even perhaps fight for a starting spot on the big league club (should Garko get traded.....which is a possibility still).

I'm NOT overvaluing any of these players. Never said any one of them would be traded straight up for anything. But as secondary players, they have a value.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby gorman8621 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:04 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Mujica will likely make the bullpen out of ST if not traded though. Tribe doesn't have to trade him and they like his arm (as do others). Has struggled at the big league level but better than a lot of alternatives.

And as stated, Aubrey's 4th option year will help. If he can prove to stay healthy at AAA....he could even perhaps fight for a starting spot on the big league club (should Garko get traded.....which is a possibility still).

I'm NOT overvaluing any of these players. Never said any one of them would be traded straight up for anything. But as secondary players, they have a value.


You are overvaluing them. Who in their right mind would trade for Mujica even as a secondary player...when they'll be able to get him off waivers soon enough? You might as well say everyone on the team 'might' be traded...you've already listed about half of em.
gorman8621
Undrafted Free Agent
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:16 pm

I honestly don't see Mujica just getting let go or exposed to waivers. There's 3 open spots in the bullpen right now at least. I see him getting 1 and the other 2 getting filled via trade/free agency. Meloan will likely start at AAA, same with Mastny (though a solid spring by either could land them at the bigs....I really like Meloan and hope he does stick coming out of camp).

Listing about 6 guys to be traded is hardly half the team....And only about 10 guys are guranteed spots next year. Shapiro himself said the only for sure spots in the lineup are Grady in CF and Hafner at DH. Assumign he doesn't intend to trade peralta, but just not sure what position he'll play (SS or 3B)....same with martinez (1B or C). Fausto is a lock in the rotation. Lee is too (though I'd trade him in the right deal). Reyes isn't going anywhere....but his elbow needs to be healthy to gurantee him a rotation spot.

In the pen you got Perez, JLewis, Betancourt, and Kobayashi as the only gurantees.


Lots of question marks....but easily answered question marks.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:23 pm

I'd rather dump Mujica than Mastny. At least Mastny has roster flexibility.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:45 pm

By 'dump,' do you mean cut or trade?


And what's the deadline for adding a guy to the 40-man for the Rule-V draft? Isn't there a date you have to have it set by and not the minute before the draft or no?

I know you don't have a lot of time for trades before the draft....but I see a lot of ways the Tribe can help the team drastically and open up some 40-man roster spots, so don't think cutting Mujica is needed. Bullington and Slocum would get cut first....and maybe Marte but who knows what the Tribe's plans are for him really....
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:47 pm

Another roster spot available now for Rule 5..... Bullington has been claimed off waivers by the Blue Jays - as well as Adam loewen.

They're hoping for another Ankiel miracle.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns
dazindiansfanuk
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:51 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:02 pm

No suprise on us letting Bullington go. I was suprised we even grabbed him (if you get demoted by Pittsburgh....that's pretty bad, lol).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:04 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:Another roster spot available now for Rule 5..... Bullington has been claimed off waivers by the Blue Jays - as well as Adam loewen.

They're hoping for another Ankiel miracle.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns



who knows its more common than we think or even in reverse remember betancourt was first a SS for the red soxes and if lofgren continues to have issues next year he might get turned into a hitter. I still have no idea why pittsburgh hasnt tried to change vandenBosch(spelling ?) back to a hitter, I know its hard to do but might as well try it then just have a shitty 4A type of guy, I mean he was the top college hitter so make him a pitcher there's a reason pit has been under 500 so long
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:42 pm

Hermie13 wrote:By 'dump,' do you mean cut or trade?


And what's the deadline for adding a guy to the 40-man for the Rule-V draft? Isn't there a date you have to have it set by and not the minute before the draft or no?


When I say dump, I am saying release.

Mujica, right now, has nil trade value. All he has proven right now is he is a dime a dozen depth 4A bullpen guy. I don't mind keeping him around, but I'd rather go with Mastny instead because at least he has had some sustained success at the ML level and also has two options remaining so there is some flexibility there.

The roster deadline is Nov 20th.
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Duane Kuiper » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:24 pm

Slocum cleared waivers and has been assigned to AAA.
Duane Kuiper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby npc29 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:00 pm

Mujica blows, let's just cut bait.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:03 pm

npc29 wrote:Mujica blows, let's just cut bait.


Well said. :s_rofl
User avatar
TonyIBI
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:03 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Consigliere wrote:
npc29 wrote:Mujica blows, let's just cut bait.


Well said. :s_rofl



I third this, i feel like hes been living off his one excellent year which was what 2 or 3 years back
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby TheWord » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:31 pm

What do you mean no VALUE?

Package Mastny, Mujica, Aubrey, and Ryan Goleski and go get Pujols.

Problem solved.

:)
TheWord
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:06 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:39 pm

TheWord wrote:What do you mean no VALUE?

Package Mastny, Mujica, Aubrey, and Ryan Goleski and go get Pujols.

Problem solved.

:)



you forgot you need to add in carroll so they have a replacement at 3B
jellis
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3016
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:34 pm

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby npc29 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:15 am

I mean Mujica has had his chance.. He's shown flashes, but really I think what you see is what you get. It isn't like his past few years have had real impressive numbers at Buffalo either.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:43 am

Personally I will be disappointed if we loses anyone in the Rule 5 draft because a roster spot was still afforded to Mastny or Mujica. Both have had their opportunities and failed to grab hold.

Without getting long wided the Tribe has a 'Taxi squad' of bullpen arms sloted for Columbus. Rundles and Sipp are lefties in this group and Meloan, Stevens, JD Martin and (supposedly) Adam Miller are the righties.

Assuming a single backend guy is brought in during the offseason (in some manner), the bullpen would have: new guy, Jensen Lewis, Raffy Perez, Raffy Betancourt, Masa K and Zach Jackson. That leaves 1 spot for the taxi guys to fight for and the rest of the taxi group is protection from injuries and ineffectiveness.

The spots afforded to Mastny or Mujica are better used for talent to help in 2009 (JD Martin) and beyond 09(Kelvin dela Cruz).
MadThinker88
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:48 am
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:09 pm

Tribe didn't let Cabrera or Davis go in the offseason because they loved their live arms. From what I've read it sounds like the same with Mujica.


And I'm not sold on Jackson going to the pen....though it's possible. I'd rather do that than just lose him.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7092
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby Duane Kuiper » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:54 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Tribe didn't let Cabrera or Davis go in the offseason because they loved their live arms. From what I've read it sounds like the same with Mujica.

And as it was a mistaken evaluation of those two, it would be the same on Mujica.
Duane Kuiper
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:51 am

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby npc29 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:09 am

MadThinker88 wrote:Personally I will be disappointed if we loses anyone in the Rule 5 draft because a roster spot was still afforded to Mastny or Mujica. Both have had their opportunities and failed to grab hold.

Without getting long wided the Tribe has a 'Taxi squad' of bullpen arms sloted for Columbus. Rundles and Sipp are lefties in this group and Meloan, Stevens, JD Martin and (supposedly) Adam Miller are the righties.

Assuming a single backend guy is brought in during the offseason (in some manner), the bullpen would have: new guy, Jensen Lewis, Raffy Perez, Raffy Betancourt, Masa K and Zach Jackson. That leaves 1 spot for the taxi guys to fight for and the rest of the taxi group is protection from injuries and ineffectiveness.

The spots afforded to Mastny or Mujica are better used for talent to help in 2009 (JD Martin) and beyond 09(Kelvin dela Cruz).


Those are actually some great points.. If we were in a pinch, I'd rather bring up guys like Rundles, Sipp, Meloan and Stevens then toy around with both Mastny and Mujica.

I really like Zach Jackson in the bullpen.. Legit long guy.. He's not flashy by any means but he showed some impressive stretches.
npc29
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:59 pm
Location: Kent, OH

Re: Rule V Eligibility

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:45 pm

thanks for the kudos npc.
MadThinker88
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1738
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:48 am
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin

Previous

Return to Indians Prospect Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron