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Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:08 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
BrianM wrote:I like the Marcum signing. I think our expectations should be pretty low considering his health, but he may have more potential than any other starter who will sign a minor league deal this offseason.

Also, when your signing a minor league deal, you basically get to choose where to go, and he chose Cleveland. I like that. He obviously has a very good opportunity to break camp with us, but I would like to think that Kazmir's success had a lot to do with his decision. I'm giving Callaway the credit on this one. It would be nice to see Callaway gain a good repuation with reclamation projects. We could save a lot of money in the coming years if we could consistently fill the 5 spot in our rotation with someone who is trying to up their value in a contract year and pitching for basically league minimum.


Not a big fan of this signing.. but, it's a minor league deal, so, it won't affect the major league roster. Best guess is that he will be left back in extended to get his stuff together. There isn't a very good history of this particular malady for a pitcher and full return to success.. Chris Carpenter had this and he was done.. around the same age.. We'll see.. very low risk.. huge upside if he can return..


Agree Brian, solid signing. Low risk, no such thing as a bad minor league deal.


Chris Carpenter had a great season at the age of 36 (led the league in IP) and turned 37 when he last pitched in the bigs....Marcum was 31 when he had the surgery and just turned 32 three days ago. Hardly around the same age. Definitely no sure thing after what he had, but isn't at the age where I'd write him off. Young enough he could bounce back.

Still would prefer a guy like Samardjiza to fill the #2 spot than hoping someone steps up for the 5th spot but again, love the the Marcum signing. Has an opening day opt out though so extended spring training may not be in the cards for him in Cleveland.

Do think it's interesting how much in incentives is in the deal. $1M guarantee if he makes the opening day roster plus up to $3M in incentives. Probably reading too much into it but makes me think he's pretty confident he'll be able to pitch in the bigs and wanted to ensure he'd get paid when he did.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:19 pm

I remember seeing Shaun Marcum play SS for SW Missouri State at Ohio State in the regionals about ~10 years ago. His development into a MLB starting pitcher has been both surprising and impressive.

I think Marcum's arm is pretty much toast at this point. His fastball averaged around 85 mph last year, but the guy has a lot of moxy out on the mound. He's one of those guys that defies conventional wisdom and somehow turned himself into good MLB starter. This isn't like Scott Kazmir coming back with 90-93 mph velocity, but he can maybe back himself into effectiveness perhaps but I wouldn't count on it.

I'm interested in the Indians intrigue with these low velocity RHPs. They liked Marcum last year and they've shown a good deal of interest in another mid 80s fastball guy in Tyler Cloyd. Cloyd was surprisingly good in 2012.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:48 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:I remember seeing Shaun Marcum play SS for SW Missouri State at Ohio State in the regionals about ~10 years ago. His development into a MLB starting pitcher has been both surprising and impressive.

I think Marcum's arm is pretty much toast at this point. His fastball averaged around 85 mph last year, but the guy has a lot of moxy out on the mound. He's one of those guys that defies conventional wisdom and somehow turned himself into good MLB starter. This isn't like Scott Kazmir coming back with 90-93 mph velocity, but he can maybe back himself into effectiveness perhaps but I wouldn't count on it.

I'm interested in the Indians intrigue with these low velocity RHPs. They liked Marcum last year and they've shown a good deal of interest in another mid 80s fastball guy in Tyler Cloyd. Cloyd was surprisingly good in 2012.


Fair point on Marcum's velocity being at only 85.1 in 2013...but from 2010-2012 it was under 87 as well. Not like he all of sudden lost a ton of velocity. Don't think it's crazy to think when healthy he could get back over 86 and be as effective as he was in 2010 and 2011 (was a 3-win pitcher both years), or hell even just 2012 levels. I'd take 120 innings and a 1.5 WAR from him this year. Doesn't quite replace Kaz but would help.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Sounds like the Orioles are looking to potentially deal Danny Valencia to clear up a 40-man roster spot. Not sure what kind of return they're looking for (can't imagine it'd be much), but he's a guy I wouldn't mind seeing the Indians snag. Realize our 40-man is now full but still think there is some deadweight that can be removed (or move an OFer). Very small sample size in Baltimore but he just flat out destroyed LH pitching last year. Hit .371 with a 1.031 OPS. Had 8 HRs and an OPS of nearly .900 overall in just 170 plate appearances. Not the first time he's shown power and hit lefties. In 2011 he had 15 HRs overall while also hitting .309 with an .822 OPS against lefties (159 PAs against them).


Mostly DHed but can play 3B still though was a -13 DRS in 2011. That said, I'd probably trust him more at 3B than Santana. If Aviles ends up playing more SS (due to an Asdrubal trade), then having a platoon bat like Valencia's may not be a bad idea. Even if you keep Cabrera, having Aviles and Valencia for infield depth could still work.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:04 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Sounds like the Orioles are looking to potentially deal Danny Valencia to clear up a 40-man roster spot. Not sure what kind of return they're looking for (can't imagine it'd be much), but he's a guy I wouldn't mind seeing the Indians snag. Realize our 40-man is now full but still think there is some deadweight that can be removed (or move an OFer). Very small sample size in Baltimore but he just flat out destroyed LH pitching last year. Hit .371 with a 1.031 OPS. Had 8 HRs and an OPS of nearly .900 overall in just 170 plate appearances. Not the first time he's shown power and hit lefties. In 2011 he had 15 HRs overall while also hitting .309 with an .822 OPS against lefties (159 PAs against them).


Mostly DHed but can play 3B still though was a -13 DRS in 2011. That said, I'd probably trust him more at 3B than Santana. If Aviles ends up playing more SS (due to an Asdrubal trade), then having a platoon bat like Valencia's may not be a bad idea. Even if you keep Cabrera, having Aviles and Valencia for infield depth could still work.


Sounds good to me.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:39 pm

Grant Balfour to the O's on a 2yr/$15M deal. Deal pending a physical...

May be the roster spot the O's are trying to open up with a Valencia trade...


O's and A's have also swapped closers essentially this winter. O's save a few bucks in 2014 and pick up Weeks.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:19 pm

So the Indians have signed a back up back up catcher Matt Treanor to a minor league deal. Probably AAA depth (not a real 25 man option IMO). Will be interested to see how the back up catcher situation plays out.

Also Jason Knapp is said to be attempting a comeback. Wish him luck, he is only 23 so though improbable, not impossible. They say his fastball is in the 90's which is vague but hey stranger things have happened
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:51 pm

Per everyone on The Twitter

Indians trade Drew Stubbs to Colorado for lefty reliever Josh Outman.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:56 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Per everyone on The Twitter

Indians trade Drew Stubbs to Colorado for lefty reliever Josh Outman.


Alright, so it looks like Scrabble and Outman will be the lefties out of the pen next season. I'm okay with that.

EDIT: Also could mean it's less likely for Bourn to be traded. And what about Hagadone??
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:03 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Per everyone on The Twitter

Indians trade Drew Stubbs to Colorado for lefty reliever Josh Outman.


Alright, so it looks like Scrabble and Outman will be the lefties out of the pen next season. I'm okay with that.

EDIT: Also could mean it's less likely for Bourn to be traded. And what about Hagadone??



I'd keep Hags in reserve unless you had to include him in a deal that you really wanted to make. Scrabble was great in Cleveland last year but lets not forget how bad he was in St. Louis early on. No sure thing. Plus we still need to open a spot for Axford on the 40-man....adding Outman may have cemented Barnes as the guy getting DFAed (again, I'd still go Herrmann though). Wonder too though if he couldn't maybe be dangled as a secondary piece in a Samardzija deal? From Boston originally and believe Epstein drafted him?


Like the Stubbs-Outman deal. Saves a couple million while adding a solid lefty. With what free agent lefties were getting I'll take it. Plus Stubbs was buried pretty deep. Could argue he was the 6th OFer on the club.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:49 pm

Royals have acquired Valencia for David Lough. Valencia....guess he's insurance in case Mouse struggles again? Or maybe a DH candidate if Butler is dealt...

Lough is a nice grab for the O's though doesn't free up a 40-man spot (as was rumored) and Valencia could have played 3B if Machado misses some regular season games.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:55 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Royals have acquired Valencia for David Lough. Valencia....guess he's insurance in case Mouse struggles again? Or maybe a DH candidate if Butler is dealt...

Lough is a nice grab for the O's though doesn't free up a 40-man spot (as was rumored) and Valencia could have played 3B if Machado misses some regular season games.


Well there goes that idea Hermie.

I like the Stubbs trade. The second lefty in the pen was a major question mark. Value wise it looks like an incredibly fair trade, but I'd like to think we are the winner of this deal because, as someone else mentioned, the relief market is crazy, and this guy was pretty dazzling against lefties, even with half his games at Coors.

I don't know what to do with Hagadone now. He's to erratic to force Francona to consider having a 3rd left in the pen and we have options that are probably just as capable as he is. I would expect him to start at AAA and be the first guy called up in case injury/poor performance.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:21 am

Not sure if anyone had seen this

@hoynsie: Catcher Lou Marson back where it all began, signs minor league deal with Phillies. #Indians.


I could see the Indians bring in Sabastian Valle as catching depth, Phillie just DFA'd him. Or Kyle Skipworth DFA'd by Miami, both are only 23, have some pop but both have plenty of holes in their swings.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:39 am

GoTribe028 wrote:Not sure if anyone had seen this

@hoynsie: Catcher Lou Marson back where it all began, signs minor league deal with Phillies. #Indians.


I could see the Indians bring in Sabastian Valle as catching depth, Phillie just DFA'd him. Or Kyle Skipworth DFA'd by Miami, both are only 23, have some pop but both have plenty of holes in their swings.


Sad to see Marson go. If his shoulder can get healthy, he's a solid big league backup. Enough OBP potential there to be a platoon option as well.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:49 am

BrianM wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Royals have acquired Valencia for David Lough. Valencia....guess he's insurance in case Mouse struggles again? Or maybe a DH candidate if Butler is dealt...

Lough is a nice grab for the O's though doesn't free up a 40-man spot (as was rumored) and Valencia could have played 3B if Machado misses some regular season games.


Well there goes that idea Hermie.

I like the Stubbs trade. The second lefty in the pen was a major question mark. Value wise it looks like an incredibly fair trade, but I'd like to think we are the winner of this deal because, as someone else mentioned, the relief market is crazy, and this guy was pretty dazzling against lefties, even with half his games at Coors.

I don't know what to do with Hagadone now. He's to erratic to force Francona to consider having a 3rd left in the pen and we have options that are probably just as capable as he is. I would expect him to start at AAA and be the first guy called up in case injury/poor performance.


The first impression from the Stubbs deal was.. "...shouldn't the Indians have gotten a little more for him than a loogy?..".. After sleeping on the deal, I agree.. it should a good deal.. A useful bullpen arm (primarily against lefties and having a manager that understands how to use a Loogy) with a good FB is an addition that improves the team. So, like you said.. a good trade..

W/R to Hagadone..no more options (I don't think) and no more time. For him, it's put up or shut up time. Too many "...ball one.. ball two.. ball.." counts for a reliever. When he does get the ball over the plate.. it's straight and in spots that any pitcher can't live with. For this reason.. he may be history.. Look for the "..best shape of his career.." comments and early success in spring training for this opinion to change his plight.. As far as going to AAA, best guess would be he would turn down an assignment and become a minor league free agent..

Interesting note.. our local media folks missed out on the rumor about Franklin Gutierrez:

"...Greg Johns ‏@GregJohnsMLB: Guti says he had other offers, including Indians, but once #Mariners talked to him "I didn't think twice." Says Seattle is home after 5 yrs..." The question that I have about this report.. was there more to it than just an offer to Gutierrez?.. IDK..

Anyway, we'll see on the Outman/Hagadone bullpen make up as spring training arrives and progresses.. Just 56 days until Pitchers and Catchers report to Spring Training in Goodyear!!...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:42 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
BrianM wrote:Well there goes that idea Hermie.

I like the Stubbs trade. The second lefty in the pen was a major question mark. Value wise it looks like an incredibly fair trade, but I'd like to think we are the winner of this deal because, as someone else mentioned, the relief market is crazy, and this guy was pretty dazzling against lefties, even with half his games at Coors.

I don't know what to do with Hagadone now. He's to erratic to force Francona to consider having a 3rd left in the pen and we have options that are probably just as capable as he is. I would expect him to start at AAA and be the first guy called up in case injury/poor performance.


The first impression from the Stubbs deal was.. "...shouldn't the Indians have gotten a little more for him than a loogy?..".. After sleeping on the deal, I agree.. it should a good deal.. A useful bullpen arm (primarily against lefties and having a manager that understands how to use a Loogy) with a good FB is an addition that improves the team. So, like you said.. a good trade..

W/R to Hagadone..no more options (I don't think) and no more time. For him, it's put up or shut up time. Too many "...ball one.. ball two.. ball.." counts for a reliever. When he does get the ball over the plate.. it's straight and in spots that any pitcher can't live with. For this reason.. he may be history.. Look for the "..best shape of his career.." comments and early success in spring training for this opinion to change his plight.. As far as going to AAA, best guess would be he would turn down an assignment and become a minor league free agent..

Interesting note.. our local media folks missed out on the rumor about Franklin Gutierrez:

"...Greg Johns ‏@GregJohnsMLB: Guti says he had other offers, including Indians, but once #Mariners talked to him "I didn't think twice." Says Seattle is home after 5 yrs..." The question that I have about this report.. was there more to it than just an offer to Gutierrez?.. IDK..

Anyway, we'll see on the Outman/Hagadone bullpen make up as spring training arrives and progresses.. Just 56 days until Pitchers and Catchers report to Spring Training in Goodyear!!...


I'm still a bit surprised the Indians got as much for Stubbs as they did, though Beane may have helped out getting Gregorson for Smith. Getting a solid bullpen piece for a 4th outfielder is a good deal in today's game.

IRT Hagadone....I thought he still had an option left. Tony mentioned he is hearing that he may have one left as well. Not sure if this has been confirmed or not though.


As far as Gut...glad he's returning to Seattle. Wouldn't have minded him on a minor league deal in Cleveland but he's at best a 4th outfielder...and in Cleveland he'd be a 5th or 6th outfielder. Not needed IMO.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby El Em » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:36 pm

Catching up...

I am OK on the Axford signing at that money, and understand the upside of control should he pitch well. That said, I'd rather have had Balfour or Benoit at 2/15 if they had been open to taking our money. Both were reasonable free agent contracts in this market...both seem more likely to perform at high level this year.

Marcum on the minor league deal -- what's not to like? Not counting on him to be Kaz or the like, but who knows...no real risk in any case.

I agree with GS in regard to first impressions on the Stubbs deal -- was not upset at all, but hoped we'd get more. A day removed, I am good with it...good deal for us. If Hagadone finally puts it together, that is great...hoping we get two strong contributors out of Hags, Scrabble, and Outman...in this regard, 2 out of 3 aint bad, and perhaps the most reasonable expectation.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:57 pm

Trey Haley DFA for Axford.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:14 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Trey Haley DFA for Axford.


Going to be interesting to see if anyone claims him. Strikes out over a batter an inning...but walked 8 guys per nine this year in relief at AA! I'm sure he can improve but even cutting that in half still leaves him with a bad walk rate...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:44 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Trey Haley DFA for Axford.


Going to be interesting to see if anyone claims him. Strikes out over a batter an inning...but walked 8 guys per nine this year in relief at AA! I'm sure he can improve but even cutting that in half still leaves him with a bad walk rate...


He can bring it but IMO he hasn't improved at all since his debut. Please don't stat me to death - as I know as he has moved through his number have gotten marginally better in some ways, but he has never even become remotely close to a ML level pitcher... It sad because as pointed out, he can get the K's. Omar Santos-ish maybe?

Still young enough though and will likely garner some interest.. If you were looking for a rule 5 BP guy and didn't get it done, Haley would be an option.. With options..Hope he gets a change of scenery and figures it out. I think we all know Cleveland has trouble developing pitchers and if one person is happy about this development its probably him.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Edible14 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:49 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Trey Haley DFA for Axford.


Going to be interesting to see if anyone claims him. Strikes out over a batter an inning...but walked 8 guys per nine this year in relief at AA! I'm sure he can improve but even cutting that in half still leaves him with a bad walk rate...


I think the damning thing is that he took a step back from the previous year.

When he was first promoted to AA in 2012, he was coming off a strong year in Carolina with 8.13 k/9 and a career low 3.12 BB/9 (he also had a BB/9 of 3.0 in a brief rehab stint with the ASL Indians in the same year). He went up to Akron to finish the year and had his walk rate increase - perhaps somewhat to be expected - but his K/9 also improved. You could do a whole lot of hand-waving about that first exposure to AA - he was still young, it was a small sample size, he would adjust to the league, etc. - but only if he improved on it this year. He didn't. His walk rate was the highest of his career - save for the 2.1 innings he pitched in his draft year. Whenever a guy takes a notable step back like that - especially at the AA level which is noted for being a tough transition - the org losing stock in him isn't unexpected.

Let me put it this way. Bryce Stowell is a guy that everyone knows can throw hard, but has little control. Stowell has never posted as bad of a walk rate as Haley did last year, and his k-rate is *higher*. Purely on numbers, there's no reason to suggest Haley is or ever will be a better pitcher than a guy who has been passed over in two consecutive Rule V drafts.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:23 am

An interesting lefty was just DFA'd by the SF Giants.. Eric Surkamp..he's a big lefty that has gone through a year and a half of tommy john surgery rehabilitation... When he was right.. he was very good.. He could be worthy of a split MiLB/MLB contract with a spring training invite.. Given the reputation (either real or perceived) that the Indians are a good place for a pitcher to truly begin a return to full health at the Major League level, he would be a good gamble...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:22 am

GeronimoSon wrote:An interesting lefty was just DFA'd by the SF Giants.. Eric Surkamp..he's a big lefty that has gone through a year and a half of tommy john surgery rehabilitation... When he was right.. he was very good.. He could be worthy of a split MiLB/MLB contract with a spring training invite.. Given the reputation (either real or perceived) that the Indians are a good place for a pitcher to truly begin a return to full health at the Major League level, he would be a good gamble...


Actually thought the same thing. Doesn't throw hard at all, think he sits high 80's generally, and I'm not sure about the quality of his breaking stuff. However he's a lefty that's 25-26 and he's a big guy. Someone who I'd be just fine with the Indians stashing away in Columbus (if possible)
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby daingean » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:31 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:An interesting lefty was just DFA'd by the SF Giants.. Eric Surkamp..he's a big lefty that has gone through a year and a half of tommy john surgery rehabilitation... When he was right.. he was very good.. He could be worthy of a split MiLB/MLB contract with a spring training invite.. Given the reputation (either real or perceived) that the Indians are a good place for a pitcher to truly begin a return to full health at the Major League level, he would be a good gamble...


Actually thought the same thing. Doesn't throw hard at all, think he sits high 80's generally, and I'm not sure about the quality of his breaking stuff. However he's a lefty that's 25-26 and he's a big guy. Someone who I'd be just fine with the Indians stashing away in Columbus (if possible)


Would he be worth taking a 40 roster spot? Because that is what it will cost to acquire him. Otherwise the Giants will just option him to their own AAA team.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:01 pm

daingean wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:An interesting lefty was just DFA'd by the SF Giants.. Eric Surkamp..he's a big lefty that has gone through a year and a half of tommy john surgery rehabilitation... When he was right.. he was very good.. He could be worthy of a split MiLB/MLB contract with a spring training invite.. Given the reputation (either real or perceived) that the Indians are a good place for a pitcher to truly begin a return to full health at the Major League level, he would be a good gamble...


Actually thought the same thing. Doesn't throw hard at all, think he sits high 80's generally, and I'm not sure about the quality of his breaking stuff. However he's a lefty that's 25-26 and he's a big guy. Someone who I'd be just fine with the Indians stashing away in Columbus (if possible)


Would he be worth taking a 40 roster spot? Because that is what it will cost to acquire him. Otherwise the Giants will just option him to their own AAA team.


I would make a move on this guy... Nothing to lose really, there are a couple guys on the 40 who are less worthy of a spot than Surkcamp IMO. Someone will take a chance on this guy and considering Marcum (i like his deal) is our best (only?)SP we have acquired this off season, The tribe should take a chance like this!
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:43 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
daingean wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:An interesting lefty was just DFA'd by the SF Giants.. Eric Surkamp..he's a big lefty that has gone through a year and a half of tommy john surgery rehabilitation... When he was right.. he was very good.. He could be worthy of a split MiLB/MLB contract with a spring training invite.. Given the reputation (either real or perceived) that the Indians are a good place for a pitcher to truly begin a return to full health at the Major League level, he would be a good gamble...


Actually thought the same thing. Doesn't throw hard at all, think he sits high 80's generally, and I'm not sure about the quality of his breaking stuff. However he's a lefty that's 25-26 and he's a big guy. Someone who I'd be just fine with the Indians stashing away in Columbus (if possible)


Would he be worth taking a 40 roster spot? Because that is what it will cost to acquire him. Otherwise the Giants will just option him to their own AAA team.


I would make a move on this guy... Nothing to lose really, there are a couple guys on the 40 who are less worthy of a spot than Surkcamp IMO. Someone will take a chance on this guy and considering Marcum (i like his deal) is our best (only?)SP we have acquired this off season, The tribe should take a chance like this!


I'm in agreement. I'm not enamored with his talent level, but this guy's minor league track record is impressive (at upper levels) and the Indians have a handful of guys on their 40-man roster that clearly aren't as good Surkamp. If he doesn't make a rotation, I can see him doing well vs. lefties with his arm action. Unless there's something wrong with his arm, someone will trade something of modest value to get him. The Houston Astros should be all over him.

Scott Feldman got a 3-year, $30 million contract this off-season. Pitching is EXPENSIVE. Here's a near MLB-ready pitcher out there with some promise that can be had quite inexpensively. I hope the Indians have investigated this.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Edible14 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:42 pm

Indians have been linked to Wilson Betemit. Seems like a good fit to me. He's versatile (although not particularly "good" at any position), right-handed, has a good bat and can play 3B. Although he's much better against righties than he is against lefties, so he's not a good platoon with Chis. But he could still be a better bench bat that Giambi, and would be a lot more valuable as a possible defender.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:16 pm

Edible14 wrote:Indians have been linked to Wilson Betemit. Seems like a good fit to me. He's versatile (although not particularly "good" at any position), right-handed, has a good bat and can play 3B. Although he's much better against righties than he is against lefties, so he's not a good platoon with Chis. But he could still be a better bench bat that Giambi, and would be a lot more valuable as a possible defender.


I would be interested, especially if he could be had on a minor league deal. I'm all for minor league deals just for the potential payoff some provide, especially when we don't have to live & die by them.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:17 pm

@JonHeymanCBS: Shin-Soo Choo has deal with rangers. 7 years. details to come.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:20 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
@JonHeymanCBS: Shin-Soo Choo has deal with rangers. 7 years. details to come.


Man... a seven-year deal for Choo is a lot IMO. Probably gonna be upwards of $150 million
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:23 pm

Rangers get Fielder and Choo as their center pieces to the off-season..

Their lineup will include Choo, Fielder, Beltre, Andrus, and Profar. Plus Rios if you count him. Not bad at all.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:35 pm

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 1m
The Shin-Soo Choo deal is a straight seven-year, $130M deal with a limited no-trade clause and no opt-outs or options.


Surprised he only got $130 million.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:52 pm

But I believe there is no state tax in Texas so it worth more in his pocket than the same figure signed in NY or elsewhere...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:52 pm

Regarding the Eric Surkamp thoughts, some guy posted some of his thoughts on him on his blog. I thought it was kind of interesting...http://whenthegiantscometotown.blogspot ... rkamp.html

He cites an underwhelming scouting report written on him by PG when he was in college. Surkamp was a 6th round pick out of NC State and this was the report on him..."...Surkamp does not throw particularly hard and his stuff is marginal by pro standards. His fastball is just in the 86-89 mph range though will touch 90, but he has an advanced feel for pitching and can keep hitters off balance with a 3 pitch mix...He has a good changeup and an average breaking ball, but needs to spot those pitches, along with his fastball, consistently to be effective." An update later in the college season said, ".....a good feel for pitching but ordinary stuff."

Surkamp actually wasn't that good in college. He was hit around as a junior at NC State but managed to strike out 86 guys in 74 innings. It wasn't until he became a pro pitcher when he started to get more attention. In 2011 as a 23-year old, he threw 142 IP, allowed 110 hits, walked 44 guys and K'd 165. Very impressive and probably the best season of his career, but I think it says something.

He's got a video on YouTube and you can find highlights of his MLB starts online, too. He's not particularly impressive, but he's big, has an easy delivery and his arm works well. Low 3/4 slot and only mid to upper 80s velocity suggests to me that he'd get hit hard vs. righties, but he actually was quite effective vs. righties in 2011 at Double-A. It's difficult to throw a true curve from his arm slot, but his slurve gets surprisingly good depth (judging by his MLB start highlights) and a change can help offset FB troubles to righties. John Sickels said in his 2012 write-up that he thinks Surkamp can be a "solid number 4 starter". Surkamp is one of those guys that has (although may not continue to) defy a lot of the stuff you learn in scouting school.

I think this guy is an interesting case study. He's not impressive talent-wise. It's not just lower velo; it's a low arm slot that flattens his stuff out. Somehow, the guy has been a successful pitcher in the upper levels despite that. I wouldn't say he's a low-talent guy b/c he's big, has a simple delivery and his arm action is reasonably fluid, but I can understand how a group of scouts may not want him.

I'd want to acquire this guy due to the prospect of getting a low-cost SP option for the next few years at a cheap price. I think he's absolutely worth a 40 man roster spot. I'd take him over Colt Hynes, David Adams, TJ House, Scott Barnes and probably Carlos Moncrief and David Cooper. I'd be worried that he may not be great right off in 2014 because sometimes it takes some time with these SP's with less stuff, but I'm really intrigued by Surkamp being DFA'd.

Not that free agent signings are always justified, but the following contracts were awarded to SP's that are around 4-starter quality this off-season;

Scott Feldman, 3 years, 30 million
Phil Hughes, 3 years, 24 million
Ricky Nolasco, 4 years, 49 million
Scott Kazmir, 2 years, 22 million
Jason Vargas, 4 years, 32 million
Mike Pelfrey, 2 years, 11 million

Most of those guys were relatively highly touted at some point and I'm not saying Surkamp will pitch to the level any of those guys have achieved, but he was just DFA'd and he's reasonably close to being a 4 or 5 starter in a MLB rotation and he isn't eligible for arbitration until 2016. These are the types of acquisitions the Indians need to be involved in.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:00 pm

The SF Giants have Vogelsong and Mad-Bum that are similar to Surkamp.. upper 80's FB. Can reach back for a little more when they need it (more so by Mad-Bum).. keeps the ball in the field of play.. 3/4 arm slot (or lower).. strike throwers that change speeds pretty good.. The ability to change speeds is probably what is being referred to in the '..good feel..' comments. He's ML ready... and, could bring more velo if he was working out of the pen.. if that is how the Indians would end up using him.. There's a lot to like about him.. For a flier on a DFA'd SP..he's worth a chance..
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:43 am

Chris Perez close to a one-year deal with the Dodgers.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:32 pm

Eric Surkamp was claimed by the White Sox. I believe they are the #3 waiver priority. I'm shocked the Astros didn't at least claim him. Disappointing the Indians couldn't offer up something like int'l signing bonus money or a lower level prospect to get him. Perhaps he's got some issues I'm not aware of, but he would have been a clear upgrade over numerous guys already on the 40-man roster.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:56 pm

I like the deal the White Sox gave to Felipe Paulino. 1.75 million for '14, club option for 4 million in '15.
If this guy can come back healthy, might be the steal of the offseason.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:08 pm

Merry Christmas to everyone who reads/posts on this site..

It has been a fun and exciting year in Cleveland Indians baseball. The fans are cautiously excited and, most importantly, highly interested is how the team is coming together for the coming 2014 season.. or, as Rachel Phelps said.. "..by the end the season (2014) we will have made history.."

...but, on the good side...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:23 am

A.Zajac wrote:Rangers get Fielder and Choo as their center pieces to the off-season..

Their lineup will include Choo, Fielder, Beltre, Andrus, and Profar. Plus Rios if you count him. Not bad at all.


While Choo is a great fit in that Texas lineup (really needed a leadoff hitter)....7yr/$130M is just insane for him. Worth it based off his 2013 season but platoon splits have gotten worse the last two years. If they continue to decline as he ages he'll be one hell of an expensive platoon player. Moving to a cOF spot should help a lot...and if he ends up in LF...that's just not fair with that arm.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby daingean » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:35 am

Hermie13 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Rangers get Fielder and Choo as their center pieces to the off-season..

Their lineup will include Choo, Fielder, Beltre, Andrus, and Profar. Plus Rios if you count him. Not bad at all.


While Choo is a great fit in that Texas lineup (really needed a leadoff hitter)....7yr/$130M is just insane for him. Worth it based off his 2013 season but platoon splits have gotten worse the last two years. If they continue to decline as he ages he'll be one hell of an expensive platoon player. Moving to a cOF spot should help a lot...and if he ends up in LF...that's just not fair with that arm.


The stRangers will most likely have budget issues soon but then I thought the same thing when they backed up the Brinks truck to sign A-Rod......wait didn't that owner (the one that signed A-Rod) have to sell the team because of bankruptcy issues?
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:54 am

Slow period for baseball rumors and action...


Throwing a small name out there I think could be a great fit in Cleveland: Jeff Baker. Career has been pretty blah but he came out last year and just destroyed lefties (OPS over 1.000). Wasn't just Texas's park either that helped him as he actually hit way better on the road than at home (OPS over 1.000 on the road). Looking at the Tribe bench now leaves a bit to be desired IMO. Raburn is still there and AViles (if AC isn't dealt), but Gomes is in the starting lineup now which leaves potentially one of Cooper or Adams there. Baker IMO would be a nice fit/platoon with Chiz at 3B. Shouldn't cost too much even with the year he had (I wouldn't think). May not sound like much of a move but neither did Aviles/Gomes or Raburn and they turned out very nice...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:54 am

Ahh.. now that the holidays are behind us.. what's in store for the Indians entering into the month of January.. It's about 1 degree outside.. so, naturally, the thought of warm comes to mind.. The Indians have a couple of areas of concern heading into the start of spring training. Here are some questions/thoughts on the starting pitching makeup:

a. Does Ubaldo come back? The pundits who don't know seem to believe that he's well suited for the Yankees.. I don't see that at all. Does anyone else?..
b. Does Masterson get extended? His arbitration III hearing is coming in a few weeks. This is usually a good time to get something like an extension done..
c. Does the "reports" about Bauer give reason for optimism? Should be a very interesting battle for the fourth spot in the rotation.. (McAllister = # 5)
d. Does the "Cowboy" reclaim his spot in the rotation? As the season wore down in 2013, it was clear, Josh Tomlin is all the way back from TJ Surgery.
e. Does CC-Lite make sense on the pitching staff as a tweener?. I know Hiram believes CC-Lite's stuff is FOR, but, his head may not be ready for it..
f. Do the Indians surprise the baseball world and sign Masahiro Tanaka to a long term contract?

As of now, the Indians website has the Indians starting rotation slated as:

1. Justin Masterson
2. Corey Kluber
3. Danny Salazar
4. Zach McAllister
5. Josh Tomlin

This would be a pretty good rotation. IF any of the younger guys force their way into the rotation, that would be even better.. But.. thinking outside the box, wouldn't the resigning of of Ubaldo and the surprise signing of Tanaka put the Indians in an unbelievably strong position as an odds on favorite to win the AL Central Division?. Having a starting staff of:

Masterson
Ubaldo
Tanaka
Salazar
Kluber
McAllister/Bauer/Carrasco/Tomlin

Working out a schedule that would keep Tanaka on a six day regimen would be a trick that would immediately serve the Indians' and Tanaka's best interest, imho. Any day a tribe starting pitcher takes the mound, they'd have a better that even chance to win. A rotation that is this deep and this talented hasn't been seen since the days of the big four..

It would only cost Mr Dolan $ 30- $32 MM more than he paid in 2013..thoughts?
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:04 pm

Tribe has signed Scott Atchison to a minor league deal with a spring invite. Was with the Mets last year. Bullpen depth...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:57 pm

Indians sign Jeff Francouer to a minor league contract with a ST invite.
Hey, he's only 30 and could have a bounce back year.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby daingean » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:53 am

GhostofTedCox wrote:Indians sign Jeff Francouer to a minor league contract with a ST invite.
Hey, he's only 30 and could have a bounce back year.


Good signing on a minor league deal. Frenchy has a difference making arm from right but swings at everything.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:14 pm

Reports are saying that Jamey Carroll is close to signing and it'll be either the Nationals or Indians. No word if it's a major league deal or minor league signing. As things stand now he makes more sense for the Nationals IMO....but if the Tribe were to deal Cabrera, Carroll would be utility guy that could backup Aviles at short. Right now the guys capable of playing short on the 40-man are Cabrera, Aviles, Ramirez, and Gonzalez. If Cabrera is dealt...you'd be stuck with one of Ramirez/Gonazalez being on the big league club. While Ramirez could probably hold his own, not sure you want to have him as a backup/platoon at this point. Rather see him starting everyday in AAA, get more ABs.


EDIT: Carroll to the Nationals on a minor league deal.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:17 pm

Tigers have also signed both Trevor Crowe and Eziquiel Carrera to minor league deals...
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:02 pm

I haven't posted in a while because there has not been a whole lot going on, but I'm starting to believe the Indians are either setting themselves up to make a serious play for Ubaldo or a Masterson extension in the coming month.

In the past month or so we have been connected to Carroll, Abreu, Youkilis, Betemit, and Gutierrez, while they have signed Francouer and Adams to minor league deals. Now this could all be speculation on my part and I could be making something out of nothing, but even the rumored interest in these guys could be very telling. Youk and Betemit could have simply been platoon options for Chiz, but the signing of Francouer and interest in Carroll, Abreu, and Gutierrez speaks very loudly to me, especially since it has all been rumored AFTER the Stubbs trade. None of these guys are necessary to the team as it stands today, so I believe our interest is directly related to potential Bourn and Cabrera trades. I don't think any signings of this nature make a trade imminent, but having immediate replacements for these positions would give us a lot of breathing room when it comes to trying to make a deal. I mean, why else would we have any interests whatsoever in these guys if they weren't at least interested in making a trade?

Now, I don't think Bourn or Cabrera is all that expendable if we hope to reach the playoffs again next year, so if they are contemplating a trade, I would think their intention is to immediately reinvest the money in either Masterson or Ubaldo.

Bourn has not been mentioned once in any sort of trade rumors, but the rumored interest in these outfielders that we don't currently need has to be telling us something. Ridding ourselves of his contract immediately puts us in a position to sign or resign either of these pitchers, and I would much rather have an extended Masterson or Ubaldo for four more years rather than Bourn, and I would have to imagine the FO sees it the same way.

Trading ACab does not give us near the flexibility that dealing Bourn would, but I also think it would be a much more difficult task to replace his role in the lineup than it would be Bourn. I do firmly believe that a Carroll acquisition was considered to potentially help fill that role, and I certainly think that if they are willing to make such a drastic downgrade at such an important position that they have a plan to use that money to help pay Ubaldo's contract for 2014. While a Bourn trade could represent either a Ubaldo signings or a Masterson resigning, I think a Cabrera trade will be directly related to an attempt to resign Ubaldo.

Any thoughts? This is all just my speculation, but it makes a whole lot of sense to me, especially if we continue to be connected to OF's and UT infielders. We just don't have the need or the space for these guys unless they are planning on making some room through trades.
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Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:24 pm

Hey what do you guys think about Suk-Min Yoon?? I would be nosing around for sure, looks like a reasonable amount of risk/reward if you ask me.
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