RSS Twitter Facebook YouTube
Expand Menu

Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 3m
Source: Orioles have interest in Jhonny Peralta as a left fielder. Yankees have pursued him, too. @FOXSportsLive
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:32 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 3m
Source: Orioles have interest in Jhonny Peralta as a left fielder. Yankees have pursued him, too. @FOXSportsLive


Would be a nice fit in Baltimore. Would provide insurance too at 3B if Machado isn't ready by opening day. Could also end up at SS if they moved Hardy (or 3B once Machado moves to short).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:26 pm

Bourjos heading to St. Louis. Rumor is Freese is headed to the Angels.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:51 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Bourjos heading to St. Louis. Rumor is Freese is headed to the Angels.


I like the deal for STL.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:14 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Bourjos heading to St. Louis. Rumor is Freese is headed to the Angels.


@Ken_Rosenthal: #Angels getting Salas along with Freese from #STLCards. Freese and Salas for Bourjos and Grichuk.
Follow me on Twitter @GoTribe028 for useless and random tweets.
GoTribe028
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:22 pm

Chris Young signing with the Mets.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Edible14 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Josh Johnson was a favorite of the "buy low, see what you can get" crowd. He's now off the market at the Brett Myers contract. Guys that could also be buy low options include:

Roy Halladay - He's been a trainwreck for two years now, so his price will be very low. Would want a full physical on the guy before signing, though.
Johan Santana - Didn't pitch much at all last year, could be retiring. If he decides to make a go of it, could be a decent gamble on a minor league deal.
Barry Zito - Definitely cheap. Also, he only topped 86 MPH once last year. So... perhaps not.
Dice-K - He got better as the season went on last year. Still not very good, but he did have a positive WAR in 7 starts for the Mets.
Brett Myers: Obviously not who I want to see with the Indians. If reports are true, he thoroughly burned that bridge. But I'd wager he'll find a minor league deal somewhere.
User avatar
Edible14
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:29 pm

These Peralta rumors are crazy. I'm very interested to see if he actually lands the 15 million a year hes asking for. I'm sure the Tigers already regret not making him the QO.

Edible14 wrote:Josh Johnson was a favorite of the "buy low, see what you can get" crowd. He's now off the market at the Brett Myers contract. Guys that could also be buy low options include:

Roy Halladay - He's been a trainwreck for two years now, so his price will be very low. Would want a full physical on the guy before signing, though.
Johan Santana - Didn't pitch much at all last year, could be retiring. If he decides to make a go of it, could be a decent gamble on a minor league deal.
Barry Zito - Definitely cheap. Also, he only topped 86 MPH once last year. So... perhaps not.
Dice-K - He got better as the season went on last year. Still not very good, but he did have a positive WAR in 7 starts for the Mets.
Brett Myers: Obviously not who I want to see with the Indians. If reports are true, he thoroughly burned that bridge. But I'd wager he'll find a minor league deal somewhere.


Off this list the only two I would have interest in would be Halladay and Santana. Santana could be great on a minor league deal, but if he decides he wants to keep playing, he is going to go wherever gives him the best opportunity to actually crack a spot in the rotation. Hes probably looking for someone to guarantee him a spot, and thats something I would not do. I expect Halladay to bounce back and think he would be a great addition, but at this point in his career I don't see him signing with an AL team. I also expect him to sign a fairly lucrative deal. There are plenty of teams that would take a shot on a one year deal for someone with Halladay's type upside.

A few more guys with high upside you could add to that list are Colby Lewis, Phil Hughes, Gavin Floyd, James McDonald, and Jason Hammel. If Lewis is healthy I'd be all for taking a shot on him. He should come pretty cheap. I didn't really have interest in Phil Hughes, but a couple people on here have expressed their interest and I'm starting to turn on to the idea. He still has some nice upside, just needs to get out of NY. Floyd and Hammel are similar in that they have both pitched like #3's before and should come cheap. Floyd has always pitched better outside of Chicago so he would be my choice between those two. I won't touch McDonald.

I don't necessarily want any of the guys I'm about to list, but I think there is a realistic chance our FO will be looking at one of the cheap inning eater types. Jake Westbrook, Chris Capuano, Bruce Chen, Roberto Hernandez, Ted Lilly, Paul Maholm, and Shaun Marcum all fit that mold. I love Chen and think we should sign him regardless of whether we start him or put him in the bullpen. The other guys off this list I would be okay with off this list are Lilly and Maholm. We could use a lefty if Scotty K leaves, and both these guys are lefties. Maholm had a rough 2nd half this year, but before that he threw the ball really well for 2 and a half years. A move to the AL may not be great for him, but he seems like he is worth a shot. Lilly is one of the most underrated pitchers of the last decade. He is 38 and has not really been healthy recently, but if healthy, he could be a great anchor to our rotation. He keeps runners off the bases and should give our defense plenty of opportunities to make plays. Just like Maholm though, I would worry about his switch from NL to AL.

I would really be okay with a lot of the potential free agents, but Tony has mentioned how much of a factor money will play in our offseason. When Tony talks about something like this on a consistent basis, I feel he knows something we don't. I don't know who were looking at, but I don't see us throwing much more than 5 million for one year at anybody, so I would just make a list of guys who we think would be willing to sign for less than that and go from there.
BrianM
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:52 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Tondo » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:22 am

Am I the only one who thinks we should have gotten a deal done with the Cards for Freese and Salas?

Those two represent two needs and are controllable for 2/3 more years through arbitration. I would have given up as much as Stubbs+Frazier to get it done or Stubbs+Naquin+Ro.Rod/Paulino. Maybe even include Bourn instead of Stubbs.

That was a missed opportunity to get a stable, veteran 3B to the Tribe, who, at least, would have formed a good platoon with Chisenhall or taken over 3B entirely, if Lonnie continued his disappointing development.

Salas would be a controllable and experienced BP arm with upside left, similar to Shaw.

We would be looking for a SP only now and still have Bourn(or Stubbs)/ACab as potential trade chips.

Consider me disappointed that we have not done this trade, as we had what they wanted and those two players would have filled two of our biggest offseason needs.
Tondo
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:09 pm

Tondo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks we should have gotten a deal done with the Cards for Freese and Salas?

Those two represent two needs and are controllable for 2/3 more years through arbitration. I would have given up as much as Stubbs+Frazier to get it done or Stubbs+Naquin+Ro.Rod/Paulino. Maybe even include Bourn instead of Stubbs.


You're not the only one that gave it some thought, but I'm not too worried about it. I thought David Freese profiled as a guy that the Indians may like as a value guy. A colleague of mine at work is a Cardinals fan and he was ready to non-tender Freese b/c he was really bad last year -- not just at the plate, but at 3b, too. I wouldn't have even considered giving up Clint Frazier for him, though. It's questionable that David Freese can even play 3b anymore.

It's time for Lonnie Chisenhall to make a contribution. Surprisingly, Baseball-Reference graded him out as a +1.4 WAR player last year (FanGraphs a game below) despite his struggles. I think position players reach their prime between the ages of 26 and 29, so Chisenhall is approaching that territory and he's now got 2 years of MLB service time under his belt. I think it's reasonable to expect him to improve from last year as a guy that has always been considered to have a good bat and good defensive tools for 3b. From the day he was drafted, I've never loved his ceiling, but he can be a nice defensive 3b that bats .270 with 35-40 doubles and 15-20 HR's during the prime of his career. If he can get close to that next year, he's a very nice asset considering his cost.

So regarding Freese, adding him and a ~$5mm salary to be a below average defensive 3b. The Indians just added Murphy, who is a similar kind of guy and is costing some decent money at $6mm a year.

For the Indians to compete, they need to optimize every dollar and all assets. Chisenhall is capable, cheap and should be improving year-to-year given his age. That $5mm or so that would have gone to Freese should be used on pitching. I don't think we should place blind faith in Chisenhall, but it sure would be nice if he could do .260/.305/.450 next year given his cost (that shouldn't be too much to ask, right?!)
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:42 pm

So Brian McCann signed a deal with the Yankees that could reach 6 years 100 million.

Johnny Peralta is close to a 4 year contract with the St Louis Cardinals.

Joe Smith signs with the LA Angels, 3 years 15 million.

Not saying these guys don't bring value, but it shows exactly why free agency is just dumb.
Follow me on Twitter @GoTribe028 for useless and random tweets.
GoTribe028
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:55 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:So Brian McCann signed a deal with the Yankees that could reach 6 years 100 million.

Johnny Peralta is close to a 4 year contract with the St Louis Cardinals.

Joe Smith signs with the LA Angels, 3 years 15 million.

Not saying these guys don't bring value, but it shows exactly why free agency is just dumb.


Agreed.

Our deals with Bourn and Swisher are actually starting to look REALLY good right now. Regardless of their future performance, gotta credit the FO for seeing the opportunity and jumping on it. Bourn and ACab's trade value should really be rising considering the absurdity of these recent signings.
BrianM
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:52 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:22 am

GoTribe028 wrote:So Brian McCann signed a deal with the Yankees that could reach 6 years 100 million.

Johnny Peralta is close to a 4 year contract with the St Louis Cardinals.

Joe Smith signs with the LA Angels, 3 years 15 million.

Not saying these guys don't bring value, but it shows exactly why free agency is just dumb.


That's a TON of money for McCann, although it does leave me salty. I hate the Yankees and they waive money around like it's no one's business. And they just got a huge upgrade unfortunately.

Peralta to the Cards is interesting... not sure I'd give him four years.

Wish Smitty all the best, sad to see him go.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Edible14 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:55 am

Carlos Santana is reportedly taking grounders at 3B this off-season, and may play the position in the Dominican winter league. If he can be an option there, he's a great fit as a platoon partner for Chisenhall. Imagine these lineups:

vs. RHP
Bourn CF
Swisher 1b/DH
Kipnis 2B
Santana DH/1B
Brantley LF
Cabrera SS
Murphy RF
Gomes C
Chisenhall 3B

vs LHP
Bourn CF
Swisher 1B
Kipnis 2B
Santana 3B
Raburn DH
Cabrera SS
Brantley LF
Gomes C
Stubbs RF

I know there's a lot of outfielders being carried on the roster, but with Raburn able to play 2B and Santana being able to play 1B/3B in a pinch, only having Aviles as a backup infielder isn't so terrible.
User avatar
Edible14
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:02 pm

Edible14 wrote:Carlos Santana is reportedly taking grounders at 3B this off-season, and may play the position in the Dominican winter league. If he can be an option there, he's a great fit as a platoon partner for Chisenhall. Imagine these lineups:

vs. RHP
Bourn CF
Swisher 1b/DH
Kipnis 2B
Santana DH/1B
Brantley LF
Cabrera SS
Murphy RF
Gomes C
Chisenhall 3B

vs LHP
Bourn CF
Swisher 1B
Kipnis 2B
Santana 3B
Raburn DH
Cabrera SS
Brantley LF
Gomes C
Stubbs RF

I know there's a lot of outfielders being carried on the roster, but with Raburn able to play 2B and Santana being able to play 1B/3B in a pinch, only having Aviles as a backup infielder isn't so terrible.


Good splits and deep lineups: Clearly a 1-9 group who can give a tough at bat.. You'll probably see Big G in against RHP's as DH with Santana behind the dish and Gomes getting the day off..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:51 pm

Peralta gets $52 million :rolleyes
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby timdav » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:22 pm

Now that Peralta signed a 4-yr. with St. Louis, seems like the Indians are stuck with Asdrubal Cabrera for 2014.

It's another Ubaldo situation, with much less upside: if A-Cab performs average or better...he leaves as a Free Agent after the '14 season. If he stinks in 2014, it hurts the team....and we won't want him back anyway.

Sure Francisco Lindor was hurt late in the '13 season, but everything you read about him is that he could be the best position player prospect the Indians have self-developed since Manny Ramirez (albeit different types of players).

Have to believe the front office has a plan B after St.L is no longer an option.

Sure, it's still November, but: ouch!
timdav
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:47 pm

timdav wrote:Now that Peralta signed a 4-yr. with St. Louis, seems like the Indians are stuck with Asdrubal Cabrera for 2014.

It's another Ubaldo situation, with much less upside: if A-Cab performs average or better...he leaves as a Free Agent after the '14 season. If he stinks in 2014, it hurts the team....and we won't want him back anyway.

Sure Francisco Lindor was hurt late in the '13 season, but everything you read about him is that he could be the best position player prospect the Indians have self-developed since Manny Ramirez (albeit different types of players).

Have to believe the front office has a plan B after St.L is no longer an option.

Sure, it's still November, but: ouch!


Simply stated.. you're wrong about Asdrubal.. what a shame..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:01 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
timdav wrote:Now that Peralta signed a 4-yr. with St. Louis, seems like the Indians are stuck with Asdrubal Cabrera for 2014.

It's another Ubaldo situation, with much less upside: if A-Cab performs average or better...he leaves as a Free Agent after the '14 season. If he stinks in 2014, it hurts the team....and we won't want him back anyway.

Sure Francisco Lindor was hurt late in the '13 season, but everything you read about him is that he could be the best position player prospect the Indians have self-developed since Manny Ramirez (albeit different types of players).

Have to believe the front office has a plan B after St.L is no longer an option.

Sure, it's still November, but: ouch!


Simply stated.. you're wrong about Asdrubal.. what a shame..


No, I actually agree with timdav here. Why would we want him back?? We have Lindor and Jose Ramirez in the minors.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:01 pm

ACab will be in his free agent year. There is no better time for him to make the effort to have a stellar year.

Bob
Bearcatbob
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:10 am

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby timdav » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:04 pm

A-Cab has had one really good season since he's been with the Indians, but has been barely average other than that one season. His 2nd half drop-offs have become almost legendary.

Nothing personal against him. Have heard he's a good guy. Just not worth $10MM. Wish we could get something reasonable for him in trade this off-season, but his track record in the past couple seasons might've hurt his value quite a bit in any trade.

We may be stuck with him, and hope his walk season will motivate him to have a great season so he can cash-in on the free agent market after 2014.
timdav
Draft Prospect
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:15 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
timdav wrote:Now that Peralta signed a 4-yr. with St. Louis, seems like the Indians are stuck with Asdrubal Cabrera for 2014.

It's another Ubaldo situation, with much less upside: if A-Cab performs average or better...he leaves as a Free Agent after the '14 season. If he stinks in 2014, it hurts the team....and we won't want him back anyway.

Sure Francisco Lindor was hurt late in the '13 season, but everything you read about him is that he could be the best position player prospect the Indians have self-developed since Manny Ramirez (albeit different types of players).

Have to believe the front office has a plan B after St.L is no longer an option.

Sure, it's still November, but: ouch!


Simply stated.. you're wrong about Asdrubal.. what a shame..


No, I actually agree with timdav here. Why would we want him back?? We have Lindor and Jose Ramirez in the minors.

You want Asdrubal back because he's a battle tested and veteran Major League Starting Shortstop and two time all star. He' under contract for a very reasonable rate for one year.. that one year is the least amount of time needed to allow the continued preparation of Francisco Lindor and Jose Ramirez because they're both in the minor leagues right now... Neither JoRam or Lindor are prepared to be major league players.. when they become major league ready players.. in a year.. perhaps more, maybe a few months less..then your comment makes sense..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:16 pm

timdav wrote:A-Cab has had one really good season since he's been with the Indians, but has been barely average other than that one season. His 2nd half drop-offs have become almost legendary.

Nothing personal against him. Have heard he's a good guy. Just not worth $10MM. Wish we could get something reasonable for him in trade this off-season, but his track record in the past couple seasons might've hurt his value quite a bit in any trade.

We may be stuck with him, and hope his walk season will motivate him to have a great season so he can cash-in on the free agent market after 2014.


Right now, below average defensive shortstops who can hit are being paid $ 53 MM for four years.. Perhaps one year at $ 10 MM sounds a lot better considering the status of the farm system...

Asdrubal's future with the Indians is uncertain.. He may be retained as a superb bench/utility guy who takes Francisco under his wing and shows him how to be a real ML'er.. One this is certain about Asdrubal's 2013 season.. he was a team leader down the stretch.. hitting five homers and driving in 17 runs in September.. It was when the Indians needed a leader and Asdrubal STEPPED UP. He is more than worth the $ 10 MM he is going to be paid in 2014. This past season's numbers, while depressed should be brought into the light. Asdrubal played through a rather several right thigh contusion. It was so severe that he couldn't drive off that right leg.. his numbers from the right side of the batters box are proof:

2011 v LHPs .286 v RHP's .263
2012 v LHPs .291 v RHP's .265
2013 v LHPs .232 v RHP's .247

It's pretty clear.. you can't drive off your back leg, you can't hit.. it wasn't until later in the season.. when it really mattered that Asdrubal stepped up. Adrubal stepped up with a CHAMPION's HEART... The attitude that is projected in several postings about Asdrubal being not worth his salary and the Indians are going to be stuck with him.. makes me sick..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:24 pm

The time to trade Asdrubal Cabrera was last year, not now. Last year at this time, if you read posts and articles on this site, you'd read that Vinnie Pestano was "untouchable" (I specifically remember that) and how overwhelmed the Indians would have to be to consider dealing Asdrubal. Pestano is now basically worthless and Cabrera's value has really been impaired. Just as though the Indians would have better off dealing Cabrera last year, they're better off hanging on to him this offseason because of relative value.

The Indians try to play the value game with their free agent signings; unless they are super bearish on Cabrera's work ethic, it really doesn't seem to be their style to sell on Cabrera now when his value is low. Ubaldo was a lost cause last year at this time, but he turned out to lead to the Indians to a playoff appearance and he left yielding the Indians a first round comp pick. Hopefully Asdrubal can do the same before his big contract year.

I also think it's too soon to be considering Lindor and Ramirez. Let's not rush Lindor to MLB so he can leave Cleveland as a 26 year old just when he's ready to enter his prime.
OhioBaseball
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:29 pm

So we now live in a world where Jhonny Peralta will make $53 million to play ss, or somewhere, for the Cardinals. This is troubling for both myself, and baseball in general.

Troubling for myself, because having watched baseball for a lifetime, and Peralta extensively, I must be missing something. I thought he was an average ss, protected in a strong lineup. Yet the Cardinals, a franchise I respect greatly, think otherwise.

Troubling for baseball because the PED's obviously paid off for Jhonny.
He got caught, was suspended, made it back for postseason, and hit the jackpot with a new contract.

Perhaps MLB should consider a new rule where a players time under suspension does not count as time against his contract. For example, Peralta would still be Tigers property for another 50 games next season.
Just a thought.
User avatar
GhostofTedCox
Single-A Phenom
 
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:51 pm

Dan Haren 1 yr/$10 million with the Dodgers.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:53 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:So we now live in a world where Jhonny Peralta will make $53 million to play ss, or somewhere, for the Cardinals. This is troubling for both myself, and baseball in general.

Troubling for myself, because having watched baseball for a lifetime, and Peralta extensively, I must be missing something. I thought he was an average ss, protected in a strong lineup. Yet the Cardinals, a franchise I respect greatly, think otherwise.

Troubling for baseball because the PED's obviously paid off for Jhonny.
He got caught, was suspended, made it back for postseason, and hit the jackpot with a new contract.

Perhaps MLB should consider a new rule where a players time under suspension does not count as time against his contract. For example, Peralta would still be Tigers property for another 50 games next season.
Just a thought.


Some people have been throwing around this idea: If a player is caught using PEDs.. not only is he punished, but so is the team. And honestly, I kind of like that idea. Granted, I know, there's only so much teams can do... but to me, it makes teams take on more responsibility for their players and maybe won't take the risk with some others.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby BrianM » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:35 am

timdav wrote:Now that Peralta signed a 4-yr. with St. Louis, seems like the Indians are stuck with Asdrubal Cabrera for 2014.

It's another Ubaldo situation, with much less upside: if A-Cab performs average or better...he leaves as a Free Agent after the '14 season. If he stinks in 2014, it hurts the team....and we won't want him back anyway.

Sure Francisco Lindor was hurt late in the '13 season, but everything you read about him is that he could be the best position player prospect the Indians have self-developed since Manny Ramirez (albeit different types of players).

Have to believe the front office has a plan B after St.L is no longer an option.

Sure, it's still November, but: ouch!


I won't try to argue for or against ACab and his ability to rebound in 2014, but I disagree with us being stuck with him. There are teams that could still use a shortstop. If Peralta gets 53 million, how much will Drew get? The Mets have been connected with Drew throughout the off season, but they don't seem enthusiastic about giving him the money he desires or giving up a pick, regardless of round. The Nats and Phillies were supposed to be the major players for Bourn last year, but both teams went the trade route to avoid the financial investment. ACab at 10 million for one year along with giving up a pretty good prospect actually sounds better than signing a guy who really has not been very good offensively the last 3 seasons to a 5 year deal for around 70 million a year. The Mets may get lucky if Drew has very few serious suitors, but believe me when I say that Cabrera still has some value. Yes, last year was definitely the time to deal him, but I think we could still get at least one valuable prospect in a deal for him right now, and one would be enough for me to deal him considering the added benefit of being able to rid ourselves of his contract and using that money to sign someone that could be even more useful this season.

What other teams are in the market for a SS?
BrianM
Rookie Baller
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:52 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:36 am

Tondo wrote:Am I the only one who thinks we should have gotten a deal done with the Cards for Freese and Salas?

Those two represent two needs and are controllable for 2/3 more years through arbitration. I would have given up as much as Stubbs+Frazier to get it done or Stubbs+Naquin+Ro.Rod/Paulino. Maybe even include Bourn instead of Stubbs.

That was a missed opportunity to get a stable, veteran 3B to the Tribe, who, at least, would have formed a good platoon with Chisenhall or taken over 3B entirely, if Lonnie continued his disappointing development.

Salas would be a controllable and experienced BP arm with upside left, similar to Shaw.

We would be looking for a SP only now and still have Bourn(or Stubbs)/ACab as potential trade chips.

Consider me disappointed that we have not done this trade, as we had what they wanted and those two players would have filled two of our biggest offseason needs.


No way would I have included Frazier in a deal for Freese/Salas. Definitely wouldn't have minded Freese but not for that much. Like Freese as a 3B that can split time with Chiz but his defense looked noticeably worse this year. May be headed to 1B/DH in the near future. Has trouble staying healthy too.

I think the Tribe wouldn't have minded dealing Bourn for Freese..but doubt the Cards would have taken on that money.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:40 am

GhostofTedCox wrote:So we now live in a world where Jhonny Peralta will make $53 million to play ss, or somewhere, for the Cardinals. This is troubling for both myself, and baseball in general.

Troubling for myself, because having watched baseball for a lifetime, and Peralta extensively, I must be missing something. I thought he was an average ss, protected in a strong lineup. Yet the Cardinals, a franchise I respect greatly, think otherwise.

Troubling for baseball because the PED's obviously paid off for Jhonny.
He got caught, was suspended, made it back for postseason, and hit the jackpot with a new contract.

Perhaps MLB should consider a new rule where a players time under suspension does not count as time against his contract. For example, Peralta would still be Tigers property for another 50 games next season.
Just a thought.


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Peralta was one of the most underrated players in recent memory for the Tribe. He "wasn't Omar" and few liked his style of play. Was one of the best SS's in team history though and now an All-Star. Had a arguably a better offensive year than Asdrubal in 2011 when Cabrera broke out with his power. Peralta has been one of the best SS's in baseball the last few years. Definitely think St. Louis overpaid some but very good signing.


Understand what people are saying with the PEDs though. Hard to say what kind of punishment needs to be done. Maybe if a guy is in a walk year he gets a lesser suspension the final season, say maybe 40-gaames, and then 20 to start next year? Teams may think twice about signing a guy that will miss April (or most of it). Not saying that's the best idea, but just not sure what really you can do.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:43 am

timdav wrote:A-Cab has had one really good season since he's been with the Indians, but has been barely average other than that one season. His 2nd half drop-offs have become almost legendary.

Nothing personal against him. Have heard he's a good guy. Just not worth $10MM. Wish we could get something reasonable for him in trade this off-season, but his track record in the past couple seasons might've hurt his value quite a bit in any trade.

We may be stuck with him, and hope his walk season will motivate him to have a great season so he can cash-in on the free agent market after 2014.


Agree with most of this, though I do still think we could get something for him this winter that would help the club. Drew is the only good SS left on the open market and he costs a draft pick. Tulo and one of Andrus/Profar could maybe be available but the cost in money/prospects may be too much. Maybe the D'backs move one of their SS's but either is unproven. Cabrera could still look attractive to a team like Pittsburgh or maybe even the Mets who seem willing to spend and want a SS.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:54 am

I've posted this elsewhere...figured I'd throw it up here. Sort of a who says no first....Bourn to the ChiSox for John Danks. Could try expanding it too, but money wise it's pretty even as you only add $1.75M to the next 3 payrolls combined if you're Cleveland. Danks wasn't great but would be a solid #3 while coming back from injury. Would give the Tribe a rotation of Masterson, Danks, Kluber, McAllister, and Salazar with Bauer still in tow in AAA. May ask why would the Sox do it...not sure really though rumors are they after a CF like Granderson (which to me makes no sense).

Dave Cameron actually posted something similar recently over at espn (Josh Hamilton for Danks). Honestly think Bourn for Danks makes more sense for both sides (but maybe that's just me).
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Edible14 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:55 am

Hermie13 wrote:I've posted this elsewhere...figured I'd throw it up here. Sort of a who says no first....Bourn to the ChiSox for John Danks. Could try expanding it too, but money wise it's pretty even as you only add $1.75M to the next 3 payrolls combined if you're Cleveland. Danks wasn't great but would be a solid #3 while coming back from injury. Would give the Tribe a rotation of Masterson, Danks, Kluber, McAllister, and Salazar with Bauer still in tow in AAA. May ask why would the Sox do it...not sure really though rumors are they after a CF like Granderson (which to me makes no sense).

Dave Cameron actually posted something similar recently over at espn (Josh Hamilton for Danks). Honestly think Bourn for Danks makes more sense for both sides (but maybe that's just me).


I'll pass on that. Danks has been barely average the last two years, and at 28 I don't see any reason he'd start getting better. If we're trading Bourn I either want a lot of salary relief or I want a 2-3 WAR player.
User avatar
Edible14
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:05 am

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:I've posted this elsewhere...figured I'd throw it up here. Sort of a who says no first....Bourn to the ChiSox for John Danks. Could try expanding it too, but money wise it's pretty even as you only add $1.75M to the next 3 payrolls combined if you're Cleveland. Danks wasn't great but would be a solid #3 while coming back from injury. Would give the Tribe a rotation of Masterson, Danks, Kluber, McAllister, and Salazar with Bauer still in tow in AAA. May ask why would the Sox do it...not sure really though rumors are they after a CF like Granderson (which to me makes no sense).

Dave Cameron actually posted something similar recently over at espn (Josh Hamilton for Danks). Honestly think Bourn for Danks makes more sense for both sides (but maybe that's just me).


I'll pass on that. Danks has been barely average the last two years, and at 28 I don't see any reason he'd start getting better. If we're trading Bourn I either want a lot of salary relief or I want a 2-3 WAR player.


Danks was hurt for almost all of 2012 and was coming back this year. Prior to injury he was a 3-5 win player (according to fWAR). Definitely don't think he's ideal, but if he gets healthy he's still young and don't see why he shouldn't be able to get back to his 2008-2011 self. 28 is still very young for a SP and guys can definitely turn it around. Just ask Kazmir or Ubaldo :cool

Can definitely see the downside though. No guarantee Danks improves. Just thought after seeing "Hamilton for Danks" on ESPN this made more sense. I also think Danks is primed for a comeback year, though that's just a personal, gut feeling. though his xFIP also suggest such a thing could be in the cards. xFIPs from 2008-2011: 3.82, 4.38, 3.99, 3.79; ERAs those four seasons: 3.32, 3.77, 3.72, 4.33. xFIP and ERA both jumped big in 2012 when he barely got in 50 innings (xFIP was over 5), but in 2013 his xFIP was back around 4 (4.08). Something to ponder.


I'd check in with the mets too with Bourn....wouldn't mind getting ahold of Niese (though that may require Brantley...which I'd do). Red Sox maybe too. One rumor says they checked in on Matt Kemp. At least Bourn played most of last year.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:18 am

Speaking of Danks...

In the middle of a 5 year/$65M deal signed before he reached free agency with the ChiSox. fWAR was between 2.9 and 5 leading up to the deal.

If you could get Masterson for that contract, would you do it? $8M in 2014, around $14-15M per year after 2014 for more 4 years. Worth the risk or no? (personally think he'd ask for more but still posing this hypothetical)
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:10 am

Hermie13 wrote:Speaking of Danks...

In the middle of a 5 year/$65M deal signed before he reached free agency with the ChiSox. fWAR was between 2.9 and 5 leading up to the deal.

If you could get Masterson for that contract, would you do it? $8M in 2014, around $14-15M per year after 2014 for more 4 years. Worth the risk or no? (personally think he'd ask for more but still posing this hypothetical)


Danks is replaceable by any one of several pitchers that don't come with his contract.. he'd represent a regression for the Indians starting rotation..pass

Masterson on a five year deal including his last arbitration year is probably going to be his starting point. The values suggested, $ 8-11MM for 2014 and then increasing is fine.. The crazy world of baseball contracts says that a 6 or 8 year deal will be sought.. It would be tough to let Masterson go.. it would be tougher to have an 8 year deal at over $ 100 MM.. Trading him seems more likely in spite of his performance and desire to stay in Cleveland...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:11 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Speaking of Danks...

In the middle of a 5 year/$65M deal signed before he reached free agency with the ChiSox. fWAR was between 2.9 and 5 leading up to the deal.

If you could get Masterson for that contract, would you do it? $8M in 2014, around $14-15M per year after 2014 for more 4 years. Worth the risk or no? (personally think he'd ask for more but still posing this hypothetical)


Danks is replaceable by any one of several pitchers that don't come with his contract.. he'd represent a regression for the Indians starting rotation..pass

Masterson on a five year deal including his last arbitration year is probably going to be his starting point. The values suggested, $ 8-11MM for 2014 and then increasing is fine.. The crazy world of baseball contracts says that a 6 or 8 year deal will be sought.. It would be tough to let Masterson go.. it would be tougher to have an 8 year deal at over $ 100 MM.. Trading him seems more likely in spite of his performance and desire to stay in Cleveland...


I don't see Tomlin, Carrasco or Bauer as better than Danks right now, but that's just me maybe.


No way in hell Masterson gets an 8 year deal. 5 maybe 6 tops.


I'd consider offering 5 years/$70M. $9M in 2014, $15M from 2015-2018 with an option for 2019 and $1M buyout. He maybe does better on the open market, but a down 2014 and he'd be wishing he took the deal.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:20 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Speaking of Danks...

In the middle of a 5 year/$65M deal signed before he reached free agency with the ChiSox. fWAR was between 2.9 and 5 leading up to the deal.

If you could get Masterson for that contract, would you do it? $8M in 2014, around $14-15M per year after 2014 for more 4 years. Worth the risk or no? (personally think he'd ask for more but still posing this hypothetical)


Danks is replaceable by any one of several pitchers that don't come with his contract.. he'd represent a regression for the Indians starting rotation..pass

Masterson on a five year deal including his last arbitration year is probably going to be his starting point. The values suggested, $ 8-11MM for 2014 and then increasing is fine.. The crazy world of baseball contracts says that a 6 or 8 year deal will be sought.. It would be tough to let Masterson go.. it would be tougher to have an 8 year deal at over $ 100 MM.. Trading him seems more likely in spite of his performance and desire to stay in Cleveland...


I don't see Tomlin, Carrasco or Bauer as better than Danks right now, but that's just me maybe.


No way in hell Masterson gets an 8 year deal. 5 maybe 6 tops.


I'd consider offering 5 years/$70M. $9M in 2014, $15M from 2015-2018 with an option for 2019 and $1M buyout. He maybe does better on the open market, but a down 2014 and he'd be wishing he took the deal.


IDK.. maybe it's the mid/upper 4's ERA.. perhaps it's the $ 15- $ 16 MM per year for the next three years.. IDK.. but, I just don't see a lot of value coming from John Danks.. All three guys mentioned would be equal to or better than John Danks..

Five or six years for Masterson would be great.. it's the possibility that his agent will convince him that it's time to make BIG money in his first FA contract.. that could mean extending one or two years beyond what you've suggested (and I agree with).. The 2014 salary will be around $ 10 MM in ARBIII. I think it was projected at $ 9.8 MM. Hopefully a deal gets done and there is no down 2014 making him wish he took the deal...
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:21 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Speaking of Danks...

In the middle of a 5 year/$65M deal signed before he reached free agency with the ChiSox. fWAR was between 2.9 and 5 leading up to the deal.

If you could get Masterson for that contract, would you do it? $8M in 2014, around $14-15M per year after 2014 for more 4 years. Worth the risk or no? (personally think he'd ask for more but still posing this hypothetical)


Danks is replaceable by any one of several pitchers that don't come with his contract.. he'd represent a regression for the Indians starting rotation..pass

Masterson on a five year deal including his last arbitration year is probably going to be his starting point. The values suggested, $ 8-11MM for 2014 and then increasing is fine.. The crazy world of baseball contracts says that a 6 or 8 year deal will be sought.. It would be tough to let Masterson go.. it would be tougher to have an 8 year deal at over $ 100 MM.. Trading him seems more likely in spite of his performance and desire to stay in Cleveland...


I don't see Tomlin, Carrasco or Bauer as better than Danks right now, but that's just me maybe.


No way in hell Masterson gets an 8 year deal. 5 maybe 6 tops.


I'd consider offering 5 years/$70M. $9M in 2014, $15M from 2015-2018 with an option for 2019 and $1M buyout. He maybe does better on the open market, but a down 2014 and he'd be wishing he took the deal.


IDK.. maybe it's the mid/upper 4's ERA.. perhaps it's the $ 15- $ 16 MM per year for the next three years.. IDK.. but, I just don't see a lot of value coming from John Danks.. All three guys mentioned would be equal to or better than John Danks..

Five or six years for Masterson would be great.. it's the possibility that his agent will convince him that it's time to make BIG money in his first FA contract.. that could mean extending one or two years beyond what you've suggested (and I agree with).. The 2014 salary will be around $ 10 MM in ARBIII. I think it was projected at $ 9.8 MM. Hopefully a deal gets done and there is no down 2014 making him wish he took the deal...


Upper 4 ERA is better than the 5+ ERA those guys have been putting up though. And Danks is at $14.25M the next 3 years, not $15 or 16M (yes it's nitpicky but still).

Money argument I get, but Danks was better in 2013 (a bad year for him) than Carrasco, Tomlin, or Bauer were. Bauer is the only one I think really has the potential to be better in Cleveland in 2014 as a starter, but I'm guessing the Tribe has enough doubts with him that they will bring in a pitcher like Danks (talent wise, not necessarily salary wise).

As far as Masteron's 2014 projection. I think he'll be closer to $9M than $10M. Think that injury to end the year cost him some money. Even $9M is a big jump from what he had last year. I don't think he gets 6 years on the open market next winter. Won't say impossible but damn near close IMO. 5 years may even be pushing it though could maybe get a Sanchez type deal. He may want 6 guaranteed from the Tribe (2014 plus 5 free agent years) but don't see any way the Tribe does that. Unwritten rule of sorts for them to not go 5 guranteed years with free agent pitchers. Think they'd go 5 with Masterson if it bought out an arby year. Maybe make the 6th year a vesting option vs team. I think it's reasonable for him, but his agent may disagree.


Also....extending Masterson could possibly hinge on the Tribe's ability to deal Bourn. Consider this, the Tribe's 2015 payroll looks like it could be at $81M right now without adding a single other player this year (with a 2+ year deal) or adding a single player next year....so letting Cabrera and Masterson walk. Now it's obviously too early to get a definite payroll. I am doing some arby estimates over a year away, don't know how guys will play in 2014, some will go up, some down (or DFAed). Definitely wiggle room to maybe lose $7-10M. But that only gets down to the low-mid $70M range. Need at least $10-12M for 2015 for Masterson if you want to extend him (and that's front-loading the deal). Could fit it...but again, that means no other player added. Maybe the Tribe can compete with that but not sure their offense/rest of the team can be enough to win.

If you move Bourn though...you're down under $70M for 2015 right now (I have them ~$68M). Easily can fit Masterson in, plus have some wiggle room potentially for adding another bat/bullpen arm or maybe even extending Kipnis. Obviously my suggestion of trading Bourn for Danks doesn't help sign Masterson as it just replaces the money...but gives you a very capable starter as a backup plan for the innings you lose if Masterson walks after 2014...which is very likely even if you do clear the necessary payroll for him.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Orioles have claimed Cord Phelps.


Tribe has also DFAed Tyler Cloyd to make room for Murphy. Surprised it wasn't Carson though don't think Cloyd is a loss.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:29 pm

Danks 14.25 MM salary is augment by a $ 7.5 MM signing bonus that is assigned over the length of the contract... So, the $ 15.75 MM number is correct.. picking or not..

"those guys" don't cost prospects that have been traded for, drafted and developed.. This for a soon to be 29 year old who is nothign special and will soon begin regressing.. 20 somethings that are just starting their ML careers have more upside that this loser.. The direction Bauer, Carrasco and Tomlin are going.. is the direction the Indians need to be going. not some old retread overpaid lefty that has 3 years left before entering the retirement home... and he's not a "very capable" anything...

Doubts about a pitchers ability to perform is part of the game.. knowing the guy is never gonna be anything other than a fill in back of the rotation starter.. says Welcome to Mediocrity !!!

Justin Masterson is projected to earn $9.7MM which is closer to $10 MM, not the $ 8 MM originally stated..and then argued about.. for what reason..who knows...

As far as the Tribe's overall budget for the 2014 season.. $ 88 - $ 92 MM would be a guessing point. So, whatever it is that you were babbling about with respect to Bourn and extending Kipnis and 2015..etc.. needs to be adjusted upwards to reflect the reality of the baseball world & that's good news for the Indians and the fans... The Indians should see a bit more than a little bit of an attendance bump now that the Browns have proven themselves to be as lousy as they have been for the last 14 years.. The Cavs early season slump..isn't helping their fan confidence level as wdll. The beneficiary should be the Indians.. Expectation for an increase to 2.2. MM fans is looking more likely....
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:42 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Danks 14.25 MM salary is augment by a $ 7.5 MM signing bonus that is assigned over the length of the contract... So, the $ 15.75 MM number is correct.. picking or not..

"those guys" don't cost prospects that have been traded for, drafted and developed.. This for a soon to be 29 year old who is nothign special and will soon begin regressing.. 20 somethings that are just starting their ML careers have more upside that this loser.. The direction Bauer, Carrasco and Tomlin are going.. is the direction the Indians need to be going. not some old retread overpaid lefty that has 3 years left before entering the retirement home... and he's not a "very capable" anything...

Doubts about a pitchers ability to perform is part of the game.. knowing the guy is never gonna be anything other than a fill in back of the rotation starter.. says Welcome to Mediocrity !!!

Justin Masterson is projected to earn $9.7MM which is closer to $10 MM, not the $ 8 MM originally stated..and then argued about.. for what reason..who knows...

As far as the Tribe's overall budget for the 2014 season.. $ 88 - $ 92 MM would be a guessing point. So, whatever it is that you were babbling about with respect to Bourn and extending Kipnis and 2015..etc.. needs to be adjusted upwards to reflect the reality of the baseball world & that's good news for the Indians and the fans... The Indians should see a bit more than a little bit of an attendance bump now that the Browns have proven themselves to be as lousy as they have been for the last 14 years.. The Cavs early season slump..isn't helping their fan confidence level as wdll. The beneficiary should be the Indians.. Expectation for an increase to 2.2. MM fans is looking more likely....


Danks' signing bonus is already fully paid. It was paid out over the 2012 season. So again, he'll make $14.25M the next three seasons.


Again, I'll give you Buaer but Tomlin has been terrible since his first two months in the bigs. ERA was over 5 after that in 2011 and was over 6 in 2012. Danks >> Tomlin, not even a debate really. Carrasco...out of options and may be a bullpen guy if he's lucky with Cleveland. I would love to see him breakout next year in the rotation. Think he still can but he hasn't shown it. He's trending downward as a starter, not up. Bauer...again I'll give him to you, though he too has been trending downward. None of the three you mentioned are better than Danks right now. Not saying Danks is the guy we should target and must get, but saying he's worse than those three and would make the rotation worse is kinda crazy. Danks as a "bad" starter for Chicago last year was better than those 3 combined.

I didn't argue if $9.7 (you said 9.8 originally but whatever) was closer to $9 or $10M. Simply said I think he'll get closer to $9M. Said he could get closer to $10M but think that's a stretch given how his season finished. Very minor difference but still money.


The guessing point for 2014 sounds like it's closer to $80-85M, not $88-92M. Maybe they push it to $90M if the right deal came along but that seems like a stretch (possible, but a stretch). Sorry you don't like my "babbling" on Bourn and Kipnis but I have a very valid point for the 2015 season and Bourn's impact on the ability extend a guy like Masterson. You don't like it fine, go bury your head in the sand and keep telling yourself Asdrubal is a good defensive SS while you're at it.


Like your optimism on the Tribe's payroll but unfortunately I live in reality, and don't see the payroll raising enough to afford Bourn, Masterson long-term and the additions needed to take the next step. Payroll may go over $90M but still doesn't leave much room for Masterson long-term without moving Bourn.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:44 pm

No.. Danks signing bonus is listed on the commitment at Cots Baseball contracts and with MLB for Competitive Balance Luxury Tax purposes as being depreciated over the five year contract or $ 14.25 MM + $ 1.5 MM = $ 15.75 MM...you're wrong... move on...

Danks blows.. period. There isn't any reason other that he's left handed to have even a minute amount of interest in him.. He was shut down last year, too !. I feel so bad that the CWSox are on the hook for that piece of garbage..NOT

$ 9.7 MM is still closer to $ 10 MM than $ 8 MM.

Subjecting a payroll "GUESS" to the retention of a specific player (Bourn or Masterson) is more of a guess.. Perhaps, because your like/dislike of Bourn is noted in several posting.. this along with a GUESS'd budget is reason enough for needing to move Bourn... Now.. less more than 24 hours ago, Chris Antonetti went on record stating that the outfield situation is not a glut requiring paring.. There are enough AB's and games for all of them to play.. As of this writing directly from CA, Bourn is staying..and the payroll should end up somewhere around where we both guessed..

Optimism is my middle name..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:56 am

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/chicago-white-sox/

Cot's lists that Danks's bonus was to be "paid between 6/12 and 10/12". So they don't even agree on their own site it seems. Moot point. Moving on there.


Thing with 2015 is there isn't that much guessing being done. Most of the salary is in known/guaranteed amounts for players. Only big arbitration cases are Brantley, Stubbs, and Kipnis. And none of them I have as breaking the bank (even Kipnis). Can put in reasonable estimates though. Sure Stubbs could be gone (likely) but still doesn't leave much wiggle room to add salary in 2015.
Hermie13
MLB All Star
 
Posts: 7120
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:34 am
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:24 am

yet, cot's still lists Danks salary at $ 15.75 MM... you're still wrong..so move on..

Estimates are called estimates because uncertainty exists..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:33 am

I think it was Hermie who mentioned using Carlos Santana in the OF and, earlier, at 3rd base.. That posting has to be at least a year old.. perhaps older.. The three switch hitters in the Indians lineup gives Tito a lot of flexibility.. If Jose Ramirez is on the squad.. that would make four.. A lineup against LHP's with Carlos Santana at 3B could look like:

Michael Bourn CF
Asdrubal Cabrera SS
Carlos Santana 3B
Nick Swisher 1B
Yan Gomes C
Jason Kipnis 2B
Ryan Raburn DH
Michael Brantley LF
Drew Stubbs RF

with Mike Aviles subbing in for Carlos/Kipnis/Droobs in the event a particular matchup warrants, rest is required or Tito has a hunch....
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:04 pm

Interesting note from Jason Stark at ESPN:

..Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports that the Indians aren't "actively" shopping Justin Masterson. The Indians are listening, but clubs who have called believe that Masterson is unlikely to be moved. The 28-year-old posted a 3.45 ERA and 195/76 K/BB ratio over 193 innings this past season and could see his salary rise above $9 million in his final year of arbitration. The Indians are expected to discuss a possible contract extension this winter...


Great..

Now we know what Hoynes will be writing about next..
GeronimoSon
MLB Rookie
 
Posts: 3921
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:34 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Interesting note from Jason Stark at ESPN:

..Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports that the Indians aren't "actively" shopping Justin Masterson. The Indians are listening, but clubs who have called believe that Masterson is unlikely to be moved. The 28-year-old posted a 3.45 ERA and 195/76 K/BB ratio over 193 innings this past season and could see his salary rise above $9 million in his final year of arbitration. The Indians are expected to discuss a possible contract extension this winter...


Great..

Now we know what Hoynes will be writing about next..


Of course they're listening, it's basically CA's standard company line regarding rumors. They'd be fools not to be willing to deal him either, although I believe the best move currently is to keep him in hous beyond this season.

As far as what Hoynes will be writing, well, I won't be reading it! :biggrin
Follow me on Twitter @GoTribe028 for useless and random tweets.
GoTribe028
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:32 pm

Nolasco to MIN.
Follow me on Twitter!
@AndrewIPI
User avatar
A.Zajac
Triple-A Stud
 
Posts: 3141
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:31 am
Location: Struthers, OH

Re: Official 2013 Off-Season Thread (Rumors & Notes)

Postby GoTribe028 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:32 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Nolasco to MIN.


4 year 49 million w/club option for 13 million w/1 million dollar buyout.

Good lord. I'm sure Nolasco is likely to help the Twins to a degree but he's going to be 31 and has only hit 200 innings 2 times in 6 years (although pretty close some seasons). I guess that's the price of starting pitching now.

I'll take McAllister and Kluber for pennies on the dollar to Nolasco's new deal.
Follow me on Twitter @GoTribe028 for useless and random tweets.
GoTribe028
Double-A Hot Shot
 
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:44 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Beyond The Minors

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron