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Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:05 am

BIG win tonight. Kudos to Bourn and Cabrera...they're upping their game when it counts. 2 hits and a walk each w/0 Ks. Cabrera has 14 RBI in last 14 games....team RBI leader for Sept. I got to see Perez facing Hosmer and Butler thanks to MLB network live cut-in. Kept the ball down, great location....K'ed 'em both looking. :)
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:07 am

Agree, big win last night. Good to see Cabrera driving in runs again, and big blast for Bourn there. He really needs to get going here.

Huge game tonight. Salazar vs Chen. A win and the Tribe is "in" the last Wild Card spot. Chen can be tough but a lefty....Tribe as a team now has a .773 OPS against lefties...that's tops in ALL of baseball.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:24 am

Musings on last night's game and a wild card update..

Poor defense.. There were at least three instances of poor defense last night.. none which resulted in an error being charged that needs to be cleaned up if the Indians truly want to compete.. Closing the glove on a "gravy hop" by Kipnis can't happen. A single was given by the official scorer.. If you ask Kipnis.. he'd tell you, that was E-4.. The ball that Bourn went after in left center last night against the wall.. needed to be caught. The fear of running into the wall (and Bourn slowing up) cost the Indians a run. In the next inning, Jarrod Dyson had a duplicate fly ball that he handled the way Bourn should have handled his chance.. The step in followed by path to the ball in right center field over the head of Ryan Raburn was the wrong path. Again, an example of a player not playing a position that would not be considered exemplary by major league standards...

Chris Perez.. 1 - 2 - 3.. ho hum a dull closing.. why can't he close games like that all the time?. Perhaps the folks at Rolaids or Tums have a secret endorsement deal we're unaware of?..

Bourn at the Bat..mighty fine night..might fine!!! :biggrin

The chase for playoff spots took some nice turns last night.. The Orioles edged Boston, the Jays hammered a new nail into the Yankees coffin while the Rays & Rangers changed spots from the previous night making the wild card chase appears as:

0 ...............Tampa (12 - Rangers)
0 ...............Rangers (12 - @Rays )
-1/2 ...........Cleveland (11 - @Royals)
-2 ..............Baltimore (12 - @Red Sox)
-3 1/2......... New York (11 - @Jays)
-3 1/2..........Kansas City (11 - Indians )


Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The Indians and Royals face off for the rubber game of their three game set. Danny Salazar needs to have his split change working for him to be effective against these Royals. The Royals counter with supreme junk baller, Bruce Chen. The approach for the day should be "..go the other way..". The Indians need to send a message in tonight's game. A big offensive output will certainly encourage motivate a big crowd for the coming last home stand. Should be a hoot tonight !!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:13 pm

BTW.. as this is as good of a spot as any..

LMAO !!! at the Browns.. What a screwed up franchise that is...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:20 pm

....The step in followed by path to the ball in right center field over the head of Ryan Raburn was the wrong path. Again, an example of a player not playing a position that would not be considered exemplary by major league standards.....


Add two more chances to Raburn's resume tonight.. he flailed helplessly in the air on a ball that he took the wrong path to at the wall.. it only cost two runs.. the other was a fly ball that he turned the wrong way then the right way before luckily sticking his glove out and catching it just below the waist to his left.. That one could have just as easily gone right by him to the wall.. on two hops..

Ryan Raburn is not an OF'er.. He should NOT be playing there in the playoff push / situation the Indians are in...

Pet Peave: Bottom of the sixth inning.. Manning's call of the pitch in the dirt thrown by Salazar w/ the block attempted by Gomes: "..he didn't use his chest protector and tried to pick it...."

Was wrong.. Flat out, Manning has NO IDEA what he's talking about.. A ball hitting the dirt where it did,, bounced up and left of Gomes.. Gomes was lucky he got any part of his shoulder on that one.. Manning's clueless calls are the primary reason the volume on the broadcast is turned off..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GoTribe028 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:19 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
....The step in followed by path to the ball in right center field over the head of Ryan Raburn was the wrong path. Again, an example of a player not playing a position that would not be considered exemplary by major league standards.....


Add two more chances to Raburn's resume tonight.. he flailed helplessly in the air on a ball that he took the wrong path to at the wall.. it only cost two runs.. the other was a fly ball that he turned the wrong way then the right way before luckily sticking his glove out and catching it just below the waist to his left.. That one could have just as easily gone right by him to the wall.. on two hops..

Ryan Raburn is not an OF'er.. He should NOT be playing there in the playoff push / situation the Indians are in...

Pet Peave: Bottom of the sixth inning.. Manning's call of the pitch in the dirt thrown by Salazar w/ the block attempted by Gomes: "..he didn't use his chest protector and tried to pick it...."

Was wrong.. Flat out, Manning has NO IDEA what he's talking about.. A ball hitting the dirt where it did,, bounced up and left of Gomes.. Gomes was lucky he got any part of his shoulder on that one.. Manning's clueless calls are the primary reason the volume on the broadcast is turned off..


Gotta disagree with you on the Salazar, Gomes, Manning stuff. Gomes looked like shit last night behind the plate. It happens. But Manning wasn't wrong.

Your opinion though, and the Browns still do suck.
Follow me on Twitter @GoTribe028 for useless and random tweets.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:21 am

GoTribe028 wrote:Gotta disagree with you on the Salazar, Gomes, Manning stuff. Gomes looked like shit last night behind the plate. It happens. But Manning wasn't wrong.

Your opinion though, and the Browns still do suck.


Yeah, if you're Gomes that's definitely a game you try and forget and move past. Terrible defensively all night.


A game the Tribe as a whole needs to forget too. Bad defense all around. Only 1 of the runs Salazar gave up should have been earned. I get the way official scorers work, but that throw by Cabrera to homeplate is an error. A good throw and Butler is a dead duck. And Gomes missing that tag on the rundown...that's a little league move. Gotta be an error. I hate this "you can't assume an out" crap that seems to apply to so many plays. Yes, you CAN assume and out when it's clear as day the guy would be out on a good throw/tag/whatnot.


Good news is Tribe is still only half a game out of the wild card...with the Astros coming to town. TB and Texas have another tonight. Go TB! (the team, not the disease)
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:14 am

The chase for playoff spots took a disturbing turn last night.. All the teams trailing the Indians (NYY's, O's, and, of course, KC) won.. The Rangers lost in extras to the Rays making the wild card chase appears as:

+1..............Tampa (11 - Rangers)
0 ...............Rangers (11 - @Rays )
-1/2 ...........Cleveland (10 - Astros)
-1 ..............Baltimore (11 - @Red Sox)
-2 1/2......... New York (10 - @Jays)
-2 1/2..........Kansas City (10 - Rangers )


Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The Indians head home within a half game of the second wild card and a six game home stand against the Astros (4) and the CWSox (2). The spot in October baseball is in their own hands.. the sons of Geronimo just need to grasp the brass ring and keep it for the next 11 days..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:31 am

..Gotta disagree with you on the Salazar, Gomes, Manning stuff. Gomes looked like shit last night behind the plate. It happens. But Manning wasn't wrong.


So, Salazar needs to have his split change NOT working?

Manning was wrong.. and it's not an opinion.. Gomes moved his arms to his sides to form a wall while putting his glove between his legs. He was sliding in the direction of the pitch.. the classic plate blocking move young catchers are taught from little league on. When a ball bounces like that one.. there's NOTHING a catcher can do.. NOTHING.. What Manning said "..he needs to use his chest protector to block the ball.." is stupidity..

Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing makes little sense..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:40 am

Another night in the books... 1/2 game separates the top three ... Tonight, all the teams trailing the Indians lost while the Rangers beat the Rays to split their series. The wild card chase appears as:

0 ...............Tampa (10 - Orioles)
0 ...............Rangers (10 - @Royals )
-1/2 ...........Cleveland (9 - Astros)
-2 ..............Baltimore (10 - @Rays)
-3 ............. New York (9 - Giants)
-3 1/2..........Kansas City (9 - Rangers )


Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The Indians opened their home stand with a Matty Carson walk off in extras.. There was the usual non-save situation drama with Chris Perez. Ubaldo had one wild inning, but, otherwise held the Stros in check. The pen was effective. Game two of the series tonight could be a wet one...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:25 pm

I think a good way to describe yesterday's game was a successful failure. A win is a win, no matter how it comes. But man...it should not have taken 11 innings to score 2 runs. Gotta love the pitching you got even if there were a few heart attack moments.

Another big game tonight. Hopefully more than 12K and change show up...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:31 pm

One last thing about Wednesday's game...

Why the frak was Kipnis sacrifice bunting in the 6th inning?!? You're down by 2 runs. Sure you got the tying run into scoring position but giving up an out there was unacceptable with Kipnis up, one of your BEST HITTERS...hitting third in the lineup. Why waste that AB?!? Basically you're telling Kipnis there you have no confidence he can get a hit and drive in a run. And yes, Santana obviously is at fault there too cause he has to get the ball out of the infield (at worst), but you have the go ahead run on base already with your #3, #4, and #5 hitters coming up, the three guys that have been arguably your best three hitters all year (kipnis, Santana, and Raburn)....DO NOT BUNT!! I'm hoping that was at least done by Kipnis on his own. Wasn't the smartest thing but maybe he felt he could catch them napping and get a hit. But if it was Francona....then wow.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:54 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I think a good way to describe yesterday's game was a successful failure. A win is a win, no matter how it comes. But man...it should not have taken 11 innings to score 2 runs. Gotta love the pitching you got even if there were a few heart attack moments.

Another big game tonight. Hopefully more than 12K and change show up...


Good description...

It's Friday night in the Greater Cleveland Area.. lots of football games..should be a decent crowd.. and even more watching... It's the MLB Freebie on MLB.com..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:52 pm

Thanks for the heads up G'son.. I will be passing that along.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:43 pm

win is a win tonight boys, bats better start getting hot in a hurry if we want to make a run in the playoffs though
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:58 am

We've been doing well against lefties all year - not sure why these Astros lefties are shutting us down.

Good thing the Astros have no hitting whatsoever. Trevor Crowe hitting 3rd? You've got to be kidding. He might be the worst #3 hitter in the big leagues in 20 years.

Aviles finally broke out of an 0-for-21 slump.

Need to get the bats going. The wild card is there for the taking. The schedule is in our favor. Eight games left against the Astros, White Sox, and Twins, and the Indians have the best record in baseball against sub-.500 teams. No excuses for not getting a wild card spot. If they don't, it's a choke.

You got to play them one game at a time.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:24 am

A night that went from absolutely balmy/wonderful at the park to "why did they stop the game so early..they could have gotten at least one more inning in before the rain started.. To..oh.. that's why.. I'm so glad we left five minutes after the rain delay started.. The Tribe wakes up today with a tentative grasp on the second wild card & just one half game separating them from the first wild card spot ... Last night, the Royals were our allies.. but that is a team that has to be smacked in the mouth as they're continuing to get better and better. Hopefully, it's just a wee bit too late for them. The Rangers found out what the Indians did....they don't want to be playing the Royals. The Rays were fortunate to get an 18 inning walk off (by David DeJesus) but had to burn their entire bullpen and a starter to get there. The Orioles and Rays need to keep beating the crap out of each other all weekend.. that would be sweeeeeeet. The Yankees also won as CC Sabathia had perhaps his best outing since the ASB. This morning, the wild card chase appears as:

+ 1/2..........Tampa (9 - Orioles)
0 ...............Cleveland (8 - Astros)
- 1/2 ..........Rangers (9 - @Royals )
-2 1/2..........Kansas City (9 - Rangers )
-2 1/2..........Baltimore (9 - @Rays)
-3 ............. New York (8 - Giants)

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

Game three of the series tonight should be as close to a "must win" as there will be for the season. Tonight the fans will really get to feel that chilly AUTUMN WIND blowing in from center field... While it won't be a wet evening, the moisture from today's rain will cool the air and give the feel of fall.. With no game worth watching tomorrow and a Nick Swisher promotion tonight.. the crowd should be pretty impressive...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:57 pm

Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:26 pm

Funny how the player who has been banned from baseball is still allowed to break Lou Gehrig's grand slam record...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.


The difference between "...close to a must win..." and "...is a must win..." seems to have escaped you.. Perhaps when you read the comment, you're also interpreting what you think it meant and then you disagree with it in the form of a comment..

again..disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is senseless...

A big offensive output tonight would be more than welcome.. there are just so much finger nail to chew for soooo many fans..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Just win baby.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:11 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Just win baby.


Mission accomplished on Saturday night. Now go out and repeat it on Sunday afternoon...
#RollTribe
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby danh8 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:06 pm

Ohhhhh baby !! Another Tribe victory, that included run production and a day that G'son can allow his fingernails to grow out.. with a day off tomorrow you should have a rejuvenated supply to get after come Tuesday's game.

Parlay this win with a walk off grand slam from the Royals in OT, and folks, we got ourselves a 1 1/2 game cushion with six games to play.

#rolltribe
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:52 am

Finishing off the Astros in style with a pair of crooked numbered innings was dotting the "I" ( could be feather that just looks like an "I"). Excellent offensive displays from the Kipper, CSan Dr Smoooth and Aviles. Kluber did what he had to do, even though it was clear, he wasn't at his best. The pen did what it was supposed to do (save for Shaw) they made the Astros earn whatever they got.. no walks. The Rangers lost on a walk off while the rest of the AL contenders (Yankees and Orioles) are beginning to fade to irrelevance. As of this morning, the wild card chase appears as:

+ 1/2 ..........Tampa (7 - Orioles)
0 ...............Cleveland (6 - CWSox)
-1 1/2 ..........Rangers (7 - Astros )
-3 1/2..........Kansas City (7 - @Seattle )
-4 ............. New York (6 - Rays)
-4 1/2..........Baltimore (7 - @Rays)

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

Both the Indians and the Yankees have the day off today. Each has a mid week series starting on Tuesday at home. The crowds for both Saturday and Sunday came in over 26K. Pretty good, not great.. More are watching this impressive run to the playoffs and, possibly, a home playoff game...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:24 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.


The difference between "...close to a must win..." and "...is a must win..." seems to have escaped you.. Perhaps when you read the comment, you're also interpreting what you think it meant and then you disagree with it in the form of a comment..

again..disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is senseless...

A big offensive output tonight would be more than welcome.. there are just so much finger nail to chew for soooo many fans..


Tribe wasn't in danger of being knocked out of the playoffs, so not even close to a must win. Even had we lost both those games, we'd be within a game of the wild card. Again, obviously big wins but some people love to overuse the term "must win" or even "close to a must win". These last 2 games weren't even close to must wins. Might as well just call all 162 games must wins. Few weeks ago some games were supposively must wins. Tribe lost...yet somehow they are still in it. So much for must wins. :rolleyes
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:29 am

Couple big games today, O's and Rays at 3 and Rangers-Stros at 8. Could be tied for the first wild card and 2 up on the Rangers...or could be a game behind the Rays and only a game up on the Rangers. Chris Davis needs to pick it up. Was my pick for AL MVP (now it's Josh Donaldson) but having a pretty bad September. Would be a good day to see him break out.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:34 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.


The difference between "...close to a must win..." and "...is a must win..." seems to have escaped you.. Perhaps when you read the comment, you're also interpreting what you think it meant and then you disagree with it in the form of a comment..

again..disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is senseless...

A big offensive output tonight would be more than welcome.. there are just so much finger nail to chew for soooo many fans..


Tribe wasn't in danger of being knocked out of the playoffs, so not even close to a must win. Even had we lost both those games, we'd be within a game of the wild card. Again, obviously big wins but some people love to overuse the term "must win" or even "close to a must win". These last 2 games weren't even close to must wins. Might as well just call all 162 games must wins. Few weeks ago some games were supposively must wins. Tribe lost...yet somehow they are still in it. So much for must wins. :rolleyes


So... the only definition of a must win is the Hermie definition..

SAD.. really sad that being so close minded can lead to such an easily damaged ego..

The games over the weekend were close to must wins. Without the wins, the Indians could be trailing in the wild card race, but, obviously.. being so narrow minded, that isn't a possiblity..

:rolleyes
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:50 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.


The difference between "...close to a must win..." and "...is a must win..." seems to have escaped you.. Perhaps when you read the comment, you're also interpreting what you think it meant and then you disagree with it in the form of a comment..

again..disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is senseless...

A big offensive output tonight would be more than welcome.. there are just so much finger nail to chew for soooo many fans..


Tribe wasn't in danger of being knocked out of the playoffs, so not even close to a must win. Even had we lost both those games, we'd be within a game of the wild card. Again, obviously big wins but some people love to overuse the term "must win" or even "close to a must win". These last 2 games weren't even close to must wins. Might as well just call all 162 games must wins. Few weeks ago some games were supposively must wins. Tribe lost...yet somehow they are still in it. So much for must wins. :rolleyes


So... the only definition of a must win is the Hermie definition..

SAD.. really sad that being so close minded can lead to such an easily damaged ego..

The games over the weekend were close to must wins. Without the wins, the Indians could be trailing in the wild card race, but, obviously.. being so narrow minded, that isn't a possiblity..

:rolleyes


Actually, not just my definition.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21449

"Undeniably, there are games of greater importance or added significance than others. Rarely, however, are there true must-win games. The term implies a do-or-die dynamic, and is overused and, in a literal sense, misused. Games are said to be must-win so often that the actual must-win games almost have to be called something else in order to differentiate them from the imposters."

Again, the games were very big this weekend. But must win or "close to must win"? nah. Games in Minnesota could be must win if we're we're still this close to the Rangers.

Fair enough if you want to call games "close to must win" or whatever. It's your opinion so have at it. But when the Tribe actually is in a must win...you call it what, a super duper must win? ha. :rolleyes

Moot point I guess. Tribe won regardless of what we want to call those games. Big wins. Moving on...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:56 am

Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Really don't see how tonight is a must win or as close to a must win as there will be for this season. Obviously a huge game but still not close to "must win".

Another ugly win by the Tribe. Offense definitely needs to pick it up as others have said. Can't keep hoping for the Astros to hand us games with their terrible play.


The difference between "...close to a must win..." and "...is a must win..." seems to have escaped you.. Perhaps when you read the comment, you're also interpreting what you think it meant and then you disagree with it in the form of a comment..

again..disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is senseless...

A big offensive output tonight would be more than welcome.. there are just so much finger nail to chew for soooo many fans..


Tribe wasn't in danger of being knocked out of the playoffs, so not even close to a must win. Even had we lost both those games, we'd be within a game of the wild card. Again, obviously big wins but some people love to overuse the term "must win" or even "close to a must win". These last 2 games weren't even close to must wins. Might as well just call all 162 games must wins. Few weeks ago some games were supposively must wins. Tribe lost...yet somehow they are still in it. So much for must wins. :rolleyes


So... the only definition of a must win is the Hermie definition..

SAD.. really sad that being so close minded can lead to such an easily damaged ego..

The games over the weekend were close to must wins. Without the wins, the Indians could be trailing in the wild card race, but, obviously.. being so narrow minded, that isn't a possiblity..

:rolleyes


Actually, not just my definition.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21449

"Undeniably, there are games of greater importance or added significance than others. Rarely, however, are there true must-win games. The term implies a do-or-die dynamic, and is overused and, in a literal sense, misused. Games are said to be must-win so often that the actual must-win games almost have to be called something else in order to differentiate them from the imposters."

Again, the games were very big this weekend. But must win or "close to must win"? nah. Games in Minnesota could be must win if we're we're still this close to the Rangers.

Fair enough if you want to call games "close to must win" or whatever. It's your opinion so have at it. But when the Tribe actually is in a must win...you call it what, a super duper must win? ha. :rolleyes

Moot point I guess. Tribe won regardless of what we want to call those games. Big wins. Moving on...


You may be happy calling it what ever you want.. Baseball prospectus doesn't have a close to a must win definition..so your argument is ridiculous.. Not that anything less is expected.. Call it whatever you want.. but start with "while I do not know what the difference is between "close to a must win" and "a must win" is, I certainly have no trouble disagreeing for the sake of disagreement with anyone and everyone whenever I want..

smh...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:59 am

Looking forward into the rotation set up for the week and onto the possible Wild Card Play In Game.. It's hopeful that Tito may not have a choice in starting the U Saturday or Sunday in Minnesota. It would be great if the Indians would be guaranteed a playoff game by then and it will be interesting to see how Masterson plays into the rotation heading in this week and, possibly, next..

The Rays appear to have set their rotation in the order that puts their ACE of the Staff in line for the WC Play In Game Start. That is, Joe Maddon, is no doubt thinking along those same lines as Tito as it relates to the starting rotation.. Maddon took the opportunity to set up his pitching rotation by first taking a chance by starting Enny Romero (first major league start/debut). Maddon has skipped Jeremy Hellickson's turn in the rotation (after he pitched into his third inning of the marathon 18 inning walk off win the other night) to start Chris Archer today. That will probably be followed by Matty Moore and David Price Tuesday and Wednesday. Alex Cobb will go on Thursday followed by Hellickson/Enny Romero on Friday, Archer on Saturday and Moore on Sunday. This will put David Price next in line for a start on Tuesday with an extra day's rest.

Maddon is no fool.. He's got his pitching rotation aligned exactly how he needs it.. Should be a fun game, if it comes to pass.. David Price v the U
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:20 am

The rotation setup is very interesting to note...

the Tribe has Ubaldo listed as their starter for tomorrow instead of Salazar. Day off today allows Ubaldo to go on normal rest. Sets him up to potentially start Sunday in Minnesota, last day of regular season. If the Tribe clinches early though, wouldn't be surprised if Carrasco or someone else starts and Ubaldo is your Wild Card starter. Salazar is listed as the starter for Wednesday. Thought maybe they could shut him down (if Masterson was ready). If Ubaldo is needed for that Sunday game to clinch...Salazar could be the guy to go in a 1 game playoff on Monday (if it's needed). Or....could be Masterson. Word is Masterson looked good in his simulated inning (26 pitches). Barring any setbacks, could be the first guy out of the pen on Wednesday behind Salazar (who may be on a short lease). Not sure about using him in such a big game though after missing so much time. Is your Ace though.

Further adding to the intrigue...Tribe hasn't listed their Thursday starter that I've seen. McAllister would be in line for it but Kazmir would be on normal rest too so could be him. Whomever it is, they'd be in line to start next Wednesday (aka, the Wild Card game) on with an extra day of rest (or even a 1 game playoff on Monday on short rest). Friday could be Kazmir, Kluber, or McAllister...whomever starts there would be on schedule to start Wednesday (AL Wild Card game) on normal rest....

Lots of options and big decisions for Francona....time to earn his money. With how the Tribe has their rotation lined up and with off days...could potentially see any one of our 6 starters go in the Wild Card game....

Hell, we could even see Ubaldo go Saturday on 3 days rest (if needed) and then the Wild Card game on 3 days rest (though that's a stretch I think).
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:48 pm

If time allows I would enjoy Francona dubbing a game a pen game and going with 3 guys for it - Masterson, Tomlin & Carrasco.

Just saying....
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:07 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:If time allows I would enjoy Francona dubbing a game a pen game and going with 3 guys for it - Masterson, Tomlin & Carrasco.

Just saying....


I don't think we'd see that unless we clinched already, at least not with Tomlin involved. Carrasco has been good in September but Tomlin has only pitched in 1 game and 2 innings. Can't see him getting the ball in any form in a meaningful game this week. Now maybe Salazar, Masterson, Carrasco against the White Sox on Wednesday? Limit both Salazar and Masterson. Carrasco could finish game though bet we'd still see the usual pen suspects (unless we're winning big).
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:55 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:If time allows I would enjoy Francona dubbing a game a pen game and going with 3 guys for it - Masterson, Tomlin & Carrasco.

Just saying....


I don't think we'd see that unless we clinched already, at least not with Tomlin involved. Carrasco has been good in September but Tomlin has only pitched in 1 game and 2 innings. Can't see him getting the ball in any form in a meaningful game this week. Now maybe Salazar, Masterson, Carrasco against the White Sox on Wednesday? Limit both Salazar and Masterson. Carrasco could finish game though bet we'd still see the usual pen suspects (unless we're winning big).


Agreed... The use of Tomlin will be at the behest of an already clinched wild card slot..and no chance for improvement to the point of geting a home game (this is where the tie breaker really hurts for the Indians). Under that set of circumstances...then a "bullpen" day could be possible, most likely, in Minnesota for the last or second from last regular season game of the year..

Tomlin will be in the mix for a starting assignment in 2014.. no doubt about it...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:10 am

A note on the tie breaking protocols for the first and second wild cards and two and three team ties...First off.. the tie breaker games will be played very shortly after the the close of the season on Sunday.. By Wednesday, the Wild Card, One Game, Play In, Win or Go Home Game is etched in stone.. So, all tie breakers have to be decided by then.. Here's what we know and what could happen...

The most important factor in a tie breaker is the head-to-head winning percentage which is clearly defined. Tampa has a 4-2 edge over the Indians. The Indians have a 5-1 record against the Rangers and the Rangers edged the Rays 4 - 3.

So.. if it's the Indians and Rays tied.. the Rays have the advantage...
..... if it's the Indians and Rangers tied.. the Indians have the advantage...
..... if it's the Rays and Rangers tied.. the Rangers have the advantage...

See.. Clear as mud... If all three teams are tied, the Indians have the best combined head to head record against the other two teams, so the Indians would have the advantage. The Rays are second and the Rangers are third. (in this hypothetical in a three way tie). How the three way tie breaker works has been defined by MLB by selection by the clubs. The selection is prioritized (and so designated as Team A, Team B and Team C, respectively) by combined head to head records of the three teams in question as:

..“After Clubs have been assigned their A, B and C designations, Club A would host Club B on Monday, Sept. 30 (tentatively). The winner of the game would be declared one Wild Card winner. Club C would then host the loser of the game between Club A and Club B on Tuesday, Oct. 1 (tentatively) to determine the second Wild Card Club.”


Because the Indians have the best record in the three way world, they get to pick what spot they want first.. probably Club A from the MLB tie designation rules. The Rays would get to pick next (they have the second best record in the three way world) and would probably decide that they want to play one game at home as opposed to one (A-B) game on the road or two games on the road. The Rays have been tremendous at home, so, they would probably pick C as that would mean they couldn't lose on the road, and would host the loser or the A-B game..

Some might believe that if team B is the loser of the A-B game, getting a second chance against Team C on the road would be an advantage.. It's not.. being the loser of the A-B game means your top two starters are burned for the single, win or go home play in game.. Any team that wants to have their # 3 starter in that spot not named Detroit would be in trouble..

As it stands now.. there are no ties.. but, there is a realistic chance that there could be two or even three teams tied at the end of the day on Sunday..

Wouldn't that be fun?..

Comments?..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:35 am

I say more fun would be winning the top Wild Card Seed outright and not having to worry about tiebreakers. Tiebreakers would be interesting though.

Agree that in a 3-way tie the Tribe would pick Club A. I think the next spot gets a bit more interesting. Sure the Rays are better at home...but getting two cracks at making the playoffs is better than one IMO. While it would suck to have used your top 2 starters just to get into the playoffs...would suck even more to just use your best starter only, lose a 1 and done, and be out of the playoffs. Rangers I'm sure would be hoping the Rays would pick Club C. Rangers would then get 2 cracks at the playoffs...plus have actually been better on the road this year than at home. 9 games over .500 on the road as opposed to 5 games over .500 at home. Really struggled in Arlington of late.

An added benefit to being Club B vs Club C...your starter from that game would be in line to start game 2 of the ALDS (if you make it that far) on full rest. The guy that starts the A/B vs C game would either have to go on short rest for Game 2 or wait til game 3. IMO not a reason to make your choice between Club B or C, but again, an added benefit. Of course all of this is assuming your #1 starter is even available for any of these playoff games...which it doesn't look like Texas will (Cleveland could if Masterson is healthy).


So again, I'd say the most fun scenario would be the Indians winning outright the top Wild Card spot and being able to watch Texas and TB battle it out in a tiebreak game to see who comes to Cleveland. Texas would potentially be down to their #4 starter (unless Holland goes on 3 days rest) and TB their #3 (Cobb or Archer?).

err...scratch that....most fun would be seeing the Tribe having the top Wild Card spot outright...and watching TB, Texas, KC, and NY all battle it out to see who gets to come to Cleveland. But not holding my breath on that scenario...or on the Tribe winning the division (hey, Detroit could lose out and we could still win out! ha) :cool
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:55 pm

I trust we will not have to suffer CP next year. When it really counts - AWOL. Opening day last year. The opening game of the four game Detroit series.

If his first pitch is ball one like tonight - he should be pulled immediately - if not sooner.

Bob
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:57 pm

Agree, when the game really matters like the Tigers series and tonight, Perez finds a way to kill this team
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:09 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:I trust we will not have to suffer CP next year. When it really counts - AWOL. Opening day last year. The opening game of the four game Detroit series.

If his first pitch is ball one like tonight - he should be pulled immediately - if not sooner.

Bob


I trust you're right. Perez will make a decent middle reliever...for somebody else.
Masterson's coming back in the pen...I'd give him the next save opportunity. Screw Chris Perez.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:14 pm

FUCKIN" A!!! JASON GIAMBI!!!!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:24 pm

Giambi for mayor! Oh what a decision Francona made to keep him on the team.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:43 pm

Special Awards:

Jason Giambi: AARP Man of the Year

Chris Perez: Cheech & Chong Fireman of the Year
User avatar
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:17 pm

Crazy way to win this game, CP can get the hell off this team, and Giambi for mayor!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby danh8 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:39 pm

We pull out a great come from behind walk off win, and maybe...just maybe we'll see our last of Chris Perez closing in an Indians uniform ? win/win ? I doubt it...at this point Francona likely doesn't mess with the pen, but having him in the backend is a weakness I'd like to see corrected by at least matching up in the 9th instead of going straight Perez. We will have the depth in pen now to be creative and stronger by doing so., Perez, even in his successes, shows monumental weaknesses. His numbers are way better than his actual performances..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:09 am

The Indians have won 15 of the last 16 games Perez has pitched in. He's not going anywhere.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:20 am

Prosecutor wrote:The Indians have won 15 of the last 16 games Perez has pitched in. He's not going anywhere.


He'll be making at least $9M, probably closer to $10M next year. Only question is do they find a trade partner or do they non-tender him...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:29 am

danh8 wrote:We pull out a great come from behind walk off win, and maybe...just maybe we'll see our last of Chris Perez closing in an Indians uniform ? win/win ? I doubt it...at this point Francona likely doesn't mess with the pen, but having him in the backend is a weakness I'd like to see corrected by at least matching up in the 9th instead of going straight Perez. We will have the depth in pen now to be creative and stronger by doing so., Perez, even in his successes, shows monumental weaknesses. His numbers are way better than his actual performances..


Yeah I don't think we'll see Francona mess with the pen (though I wouldn't be completely opposed to it). Not saying he's a bad manager but he seems very resistant to change with regards to players' roles. Still can't believe he let Aviles hit in the 9th with Giambi, Kubel and Chiz on the bench (obviously we know what Giambi did next AB, wow!).

The big wild card/x-factor that someone mentioned though could be Justin Masterson. If he can't start...could he see some 8th/9th inning action? Francona has used him in the playoffs out of the pen before with good success (2008). Used him 9 times in just two series, with Masty getting a win while pitching the 9th in Game 5 of the ALCS.

Again, I still think Perez is your closer...provided he doesn't blow another one down the stretch. But I wouldn't sleep on Masterson getting a crack.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:18 am

Musings on the penultimate home game of the regular season...

Dr Smooth.. what a night.. He has become Mr Clutch.. Mr Glove.. He's Carlos Beltran at the same time in his career. He is what a major league outfielder is supposed to look like and play like. Brilliant game and season for Dr Smoooth..

Ubs.. not his worst night.. certainly not his best. Not for nothing, the strike zone had a bottom that was anywhere from regular to mid thigh. It's difficult to stick a fork in why this night's outing was less than his most recent/usual.. however, at the end of the night..the numbers said pitched into the 7th inning.. kept him team in the game.. gave up two runs with more K's than innings pitched.. in other words.. a good/professional outing..

CP Rage.. Outrageous.. The homer to Viciedo was a mistake pitch.. no doubt about it.. ball up and out over the plate that "Tank" drilled just over the wall in RF.. That's a pitch CP cannot make.. Then, two K's.. nasty sliders and fastballs down in the zone.. The CWSox hitters had no chance.. The homer to De Aza was not on a mistake pitch.. fastball down and in and just off the plate. Most hitters foul that one off their front leg, or, at best, rope a foul ball to the stands just past the first base dugout. De Aza golfed it out.. Tip of the cap time..not time to boo.. After that, CP was rattled and Tito got him the hell outta there..

The Big G.. HOORAY for Big G.. with the Brantley single (magic time).. Big G stepped up and did his thing. WOW. All you can say after that is WOW.. Tremendous timing for the big guy.. he's clearly the clubhouse leader for this team going forward. He'll lead the tribe to where they're going to go.. no doubt in my mind about it. If it means the Chiz is left off the post season roster, then, that's what it means..

What else it means is the Indians held onto their position in the Wild Card Race. With Tampa shutting out the Yankees, the Mariners doing the same to the Royals.. the O's losing, those three teams are no longer in the wild card race. The Rangers squeaked by the Astros, so, as of this morning, the wild card chase appears as:

+ 1 .............Tampa ( Yankees then on the road for the Jays )
0 ...............Cleveland ( CWSox then on the road for the Twins)
-1 ..............Rangers ( Astros then hosting the Angels)

All three teams have five games remaining as of the morning of 9/25. All three teams have no more off days until the end of the regular season..The Indians last home game is tonight. Progressive Field should be rockin and rollin. See you there. This will be the 19th game that we've attended this season. We would be THRILLED to make it 20, possibly more..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:02 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Musings on the penultimate home game of the regular season...

Dr Smooth.. what a night.. He has become Mr Clutch.. Mr Glove.. He's Carlos Beltran at the same time in his career. He is what a major league outfielder is supposed to look like and play like. Brilliant game and season for Dr Smoooth..

Ubs.. not his worst night.. certainly not his best. Not for nothing, the strike zone had a bottom that was anywhere from regular to mid thigh. It's difficult to stick a fork in why this night's outing was less than his most recent/usual.. however, at the end of the night..the numbers said pitched into the 7th inning.. kept him team in the game.. gave up two runs with more K's than innings pitched.. in other words.. a good/professional outing..

CP Rage.. Outrageous.. The homer to Viciedo was a mistake pitch.. no doubt about it.. ball up and out over the plate that "Tank" drilled just over the wall in RF.. That's a pitch CP cannot make.. Then, two K's.. nasty sliders and fastballs down in the zone.. The CWSox hitters had no chance.. The homer to De Aza was not on a mistake pitch.. fastball down and in and just off the plate. Most hitters foul that one off their front leg, or, at best, rope a foul ball to the stands just past the first base dugout. De Aza golfed it out.. Tip of the cap time..not time to boo.. After that, CP was rattled and Tito got him the hell outta there..

The Big G.. HOORAY for Big G.. with the Brantley single (magic time).. Big G stepped up and did his thing. WOW. All you can say after that is WOW.. Tremendous timing for the big guy.. he's clearly the clubhouse leader for this team going forward. He'll lead the tribe to where they're going to go.. no doubt in my mind about it. If it means the Chiz is left off the post season roster, then, that's what it means..

What else it means is the Indians held onto their position in the Wild Card Race. With Tampa shutting out the Yankees, the Mariners doing the same to the Royals.. the O's losing, those three teams are no longer in the wild card race. The Rangers squeaked by the Astros, so, as of this morning, the wild card chase appears as:

+ 1 .............Tampa ( Yankees then on the road for the Jays )
0 ...............Cleveland ( CWSox then on the road for the Twins)
-1 ..............Rangers ( Astros then hosting the Angels)

All three teams have five games remaining as of the morning of 9/25. All three teams have no more off days until the end of the regular season..The Indians last home game is tonight. Progressive Field should be rockin and rollin. See you there. This will be the 19th game that we've attended this season. We would be THRILLED to make it 20, possibly more..


Brantley has been money this year when it counts....but c'mon, Carlos Beltran at this age? Beltran at age 26 put up a 5.8 rWAR, played very good CF defense, hit 26 HRs, drove in 100 runs, stole 41 bases, and had an OPS over .900 (132 OPS+). Brantley won't even be at a 3 rWAR, has played average defense in LF, has only 10 HRs, 70 RBIS, 16 steals, and an OPS of just .730 (108 OPS+). There's loving a Tribe player and then there's just being downright ridiculous with player comparisons. I'd have given you Carl Crawford but Carlos Beltran?!? Completely different types of players Brantley and he.

Agree though, great game by Brantley. don't win that one without him. Very solid season too (even if he has regressed some from last year overall). Love the way he plays too though. Was nice seeing some emotion out of him yesterday too.

Agree too on Ubaldo. 2 runs in over 6 innings, very solid even against the ChiSox. That strikezone was moving a lot as you said (Ubaldo still shot himself in the foot some though). Would have been nice to have seen him be able to get out of that 7th on his own. With how he's pitched lately though, can't complain. Tribe is now 5-0 in his September starts...

No way is Chiz left off the postseason roster. Don't think it comes down to Giambi vs Chiz though. If you leave Chiz off...you have no backup 3B potentially. Raburn nor Gomes has played their all year. Would you really keep Ramirez over Chiz and have Ramirez as your backup 3B? Kid has 10 professional games played at the position. I do agree, don't see how Giambi is left off...and again, don't think it's really a debate. Bench is Stubbs, Giambi, Aviles/Chiz (other starts), and one of Kubel/Ramirez/Carson....though...

Bourn's injury could be big here. Said he couldn't swing a bat anymore and that's why he was taken out. Clearly I'm not his biggest fan but has been on a bit of a roll the last 2 weeks (hitting .275/.843 with 8 runs and 8 RBIs in the last 13 games). Hopefully it's nothing too serious.


And great to hear there are still the die-hards going to 15+ games. As much as we disagree, glad you're a Tribe fan (true Tribe fan that is).
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:09 am

The comparison between Brantley and Beltran wasn't about WAR or OPS+ or RBI's after the seventh inning of home games during the sixth month of a season and other Stat-head bullshit. It was about their approach to the each at bat. The countenance exhibited during an at bat. Their demeanor on the field, Their intrinsic knowledge of how the game is played and the beauty of the execution of that insight. Some day, someone real bright is going to take the FanGraphs inspired Dave Cameron wannabes and his band of Neo-Statisticians out into the sunshine and show them that there is more to the game than fWAR and UZR150..

At the end of the day, both Michael Brantley and Carlos Beltran are Major League Outfielders. Both hit for decent average and decent power. Both are very good defenders and they both make their teams better for them being in the line up. My comments are not wrong.. disagreeing for the sake of disagreement is nonsense...

Chiz has a chance of being left off the post season roster. It may be a decision that has already been made, too. Chiz is a left handed batter who is defensively 'adequate' but limited to batting against RHP's.. He's redundant to Big G in that regard. Mike Aviles has held down the third base spot rather well recently and offers versatility that allows Tito the option of keeping G on his bench for dramatic moments in games. Aviles is not a gold glover but has done an equal or superior job to Chiz, overall with the bat & with the glove. If you're Lonnie Chisenhall, you can't believe you have a guaranteed spot.

Jose Ramirez's contract was purchased from Akron on September 1st. He's not eligible for inclusion on the post season roster unless there is an injury substitution..

Jason Kubel will probably get to see some action beginning tonight..perhaps as a DH. The Indians need to get him going. With Swisher in RF, CSan at 1B, the DH spot opens up for him. The OF could be Brantley, Stubbs and Raburn, left to right.. while Michael Bourn may get the night off. The question becomes.. will Tito move Dr Smooth to the leadoff spot to face the CWSox RH'er Axlerod?
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