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Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:51 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:-Chris Perez has converted 89 % of his save opportunities over the last three years (97 saves in 109 save opportunities). During that same time, Craig Kimbrel has saves 90 % of his save opportunities. When you get a closer who converts saves at a level approaching or breaching 90 %, that is an elite closer and worthy of being considered one of the top five at his position. During that same time period. Mariano Rivera, the consensus best closer in baseball, was at the same 89 % save conversion rate as CP (90 saves in 101 save opportunities). The personal dislike shown for Chris Perez should in no way diminish the FACT that he is a damn fine closer. One of the best in the AL..


If we're looking over three years, sure. But this year, he's below average. And I'm inclined to believe that this isn't some aberration because he was injured for a bit, I'm inclined to believe this is more about his age and his declining velocity. He was very, very good for a few seasons. I'm not eager to over-pay him during his decline. Most closers don't have a long shelf life, Rivera being a noteworthy exception. I'm not sure I'd gamble $10M or more to bring back a guy who is probably on the decline.

And for the record, I'm not a Perez hater. I've thought basically the entire time he was here that he was our best option at closer (and I love Pestano, but given his splits, Perez has always been the better choice). He's my brother's favorite player. I would be sad to see him go. But it makes a certain amount of business sense to let someone on the decline go when they're slated to make so much money.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:02 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:-Chris Perez has converted 89 % of his save opportunities over the last three years (97 saves in 109 save opportunities). During that same time, Craig Kimbrel has saves 90 % of his save opportunities. When you get a closer who converts saves at a level approaching or breaching 90 %, that is an elite closer and worthy of being considered one of the top five at his position. During that same time period. Mariano Rivera, the consensus best closer in baseball, was at the same 89 % save conversion rate as CP (90 saves in 101 save opportunities). The personal dislike shown for Chris Perez should in no way diminish the FACT that he is a damn fine closer. One of the best in the AL..


If we're looking over three years, sure. But this year, he's below average. And I'm inclined to believe that this isn't some aberration because he was injured for a bit, I'm inclined to believe this is more about his age and his declining velocity. He was very, very good for a few seasons. I'm not eager to over-pay him during his decline. Most closers don't have a long shelf life, Rivera being a noteworthy exception. I'm not sure I'd gamble $10M or more to bring back a guy who is probably on the decline.

And for the record, I'm not a Perez hater. I've thought basically the entire time he was here that he was our best option at closer (and I love Pestano, but given his splits, Perez has always been the better choice). He's my brother's favorite player. I would be sad to see him go. But it makes a certain amount of business sense to let someone on the decline go when they're slated to make so much money.


The incremental increase in Perez's salary for the 2014 season is dwarfed by what he brings to the team.. continuity at the back of the pen and being one of the best closers in the American League. An incremental increase of 1 1/2 to 3 MM is nothing compared to that security. You're not gambling 10 MM.. the gamble is putting Pestano or Allen or anyone else who hasn't done the job before in that role as a team that is competing for a playoff spot.. That's a gamble worthy of $ 80 PLUS MM... smh...

Declining to tender him, would be the only thing about him that's declining..and it would be a mistake..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:19 pm

With the A's winning (7-5 over Houston) and the Rangers losing (6-5 to the Halos), the A's take over the top spot in the AL West division by a half game and the first AL Wild Card is now in the hands of the Rangers. The Wild Card Race for the second card remains muddled. As of this moment, the Yankees have lost twice to the Red Sox, the O's have beat the CWSox twice since the last posting (i.e. day games). Tampa Bay has lost to the Seattle, the Tribe beat the Mets, while the Royals got spanked by the Tigers, with each of these teams having a game later this evening.. The second wild card standings now appear as:

+3 ..............Rangers
0 ...............Tampa
-1...............Baltimore
-2 ..............Cleveland
-3 1/2 ........ New York
-4 1/2 .........Kansas City

Most importantly, the Yankees and Royals now trail the Tampa Bay Rays by four & five games, respectively, in the loss column. These are games that cannot be made up.. Overall, 7 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race... Each of the six teams will have at least 21 games left to play after today respectively.. And the fun definitely continues..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:38 pm

"Declining to tender him, would be the only thing about him that's declining..and it would be a mistake.."

CP is frustrating - but he is too good to let walk for nothing. It all gets back to our thread of decisions that need to be made.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:08 am

If you look at the most successful closers, they come from all sorts of places. Grilli out in Pittsburgh couldn't crack our roster out of spring training a few years ago (he was hurt as well, if memory serves), but he gets healthy and suddenly he's one of the top closers in the game. Papelbon and Rivera were converted/failed starters. A good GM can find a closer in a strange place, they aren't the sort of thing you need to draft/develop/have groomed in the system. Guys make the jump from back-end reliever to closer all the time (Balfour, Perkins, Mujica, Grilli, etc.). There is no good reason to value a guy because he has "experience" closing, especially when the guy is showing signs of aging poorly.

I won't be sad or angry if Perez is back, but I think there's a solid argument to be made for letting him go. I think they should be trying to find their version of Greg Holland. But the big kicker - and this is something that we really don't have any information on as spectators - is that you'd have to be sure that whoever you have stepping into that role is mentally ready for it. I have no idea if Cody Allen has the mental makeup to close - the stats suggest he's our best option for a closing role, but that only tells you so much. Maybe Salazar or Carrasco would make good closers, or maybe they'd be a disaster like Fausto. So ultimately you have to trust the front office to make the right call here, and for Tito and all the other coaches to be aware of who is actually ready for such a role.

Also depends on what you think you could do with the extra $10M in savings. I think that would be enough to re-sign Joe Smith (as they are rumored to be trying to do) and grab a mid-tier free agent that could fill the role of Mark Reynolds (Morales? Morneau? Morse? Youkilis? Betemit? Young?) or Scott Kazmir. Or maybe resign Smith AND Kazmir. And it might also leave enough salary flexibility to take a few fliers like they did this year with mixed success (Kazmir, DiceK, Raburn, Hermida, Capps, Hill, etc.). Given a choice between Perez coming back and Kazmir/Smith coming back, I'll take Kazmir and Smith.

If I'm the guy making the call, I non-tender him. But it's obviously much different when you know all the specifics about what you have to replace him and what you can do with the money otherwise. The best of both worlds would be to resign him and then trade him for something useful, but I kind-of doubt that there's a strong market for him after a pretty mediocre year, when there wasn't even a big market for him last year.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:23 am

Well... well... well.. Football season is upon us.. but there is still lots of baseball yet to be played. As the commercial portends, the warm summer wind is awaiting the arrival of the Autumn wind.. and it could be blowing in one of the six cities with teams currently in the wild card chase. The wild card playoff race continues to churn away with the A's lengthening their lead in the AL West while the Rangers take another beating at the hands of the Halos, 8-3. The first AL Wild Card, now in the hands of the Rangers has taken a wee bit of a hit, but, is still in pretty good shape. The remaining members of this "Chase Club" saw Baltimore, Cleveland the Royals get W's while the Yankee and Rays both took it on the chin.. The second wild card standings now appear as:

+3 ..............Rangers
0 ...............Tampa
-1...............Baltimore
-1 ..............Cleveland
-2 1/2 ........ New York
-3 1/2 .........Kansas City

Overall, 6 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race... Each of the six teams will have at least 20 games left to play after today respectively.. And the fun definitely continues..unless you change over to watching the orange and seal brown. In that case, the pain is only beginning...

The Rangers finish their series with the Halos then have an inter-league match up with the Pirates.. not an easy task.

Tampa has a LONG FLIGHT back from Seattle after today, then they begin a mid week series at home against the rampaging Red Sox.

Baltimore and the Yankees get together in Camden Yards for what may be the beginning of the end or the final round for one of these two teams.

and Kansas City brings their potent offense to the North Coast for a three game set..

Hopefully, the Indians will be able to finish off the sweep of the Mets. Young Danny Salazar is on the hill and will face AAA cast off Dice-K Matsuzaka. Here's hoping Dice-K gets shelled like a bag full of warm peanuts on a sunny Sunday afternoon.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:30 pm

Tough loss by the tribe.. the series win makes the pain less.. but it would have been so much nicer to get the W today. The 8th inning, bases loaded, one out dp by droobs was disappointing..

..but not as disappointing as the disaster that occurred just north on east 9th street.. geez, the browns are horrible..I didn't see it, but was able to listen some.. even Donovan couldn't make it sound promising.. :cry
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Tough loss by the tribe.. the series win makes the pain less.. but it would have been so much nicer to get the W today. The 8th inning, bases loaded, one out dp by droobs was disappointing..

..but not as disappointing as the disaster that occurred just north on east 9th street.. geez, the browns are horrible..I didn't see it, but was able to listen some.. even Donovan couldn't make it sound promising.. :cry


You must look at the bright side. Francona was able to rest Rayburn and Aviles. They must be dammed tired as their counter parts sure contributed NOTHING. I hope they feel strong enough to play tomorrow.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Acab makes me sick, get the hell off my team you're worthless
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:58 am

Bearcatbob wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Tough loss by the tribe.. the series win makes the pain less.. but it would have been so much nicer to get the W today. The 8th inning, bases loaded, one out dp by droobs was disappointing..

..but not as disappointing as the disaster that occurred just north on east 9th street.. geez, the browns are horrible..I didn't see it, but was able to listen some.. even Donovan couldn't make it sound promising.. :cry


You must look at the bright side. Francona was able to rest Rayburn and Aviles. They must be dammed tired as their counter parts sure contributed NOTHING. I hope they feel strong enough to play tomorrow.


Raburn is battling a pretty debilitating lower leg injury and Aviles did get into the game (his attempted steal/out was NOT what was needed)... A game where the Indians hold their opponent to 2 runs..at home.. should be won. The poor day with the bat by Asdrubal could have been changed if Tito would have played a little small ball.. i.e. a safety squeeze?.. After the fact, it's not a bad suggestion.. but still, after the fact..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:17 am

Wasn't that a great opening to the Browns season???!??? (THUD !!).. By the middle of the fourth quarter, the fans disguised as orange seats were out numbering the fans. Look for a fabulous 0-3 start as the Browns now get to travel to Baltimore and Minnesota over the next two weeks....smh..

But, back to the only team in Cleveland that DOES have a legitimate chance at a post season birth.. Sunday saw a single run scored by the Indians.. Danny Salazar pitched very well, however, it's clear, the opposition knows he's limited and does everything they can to run up the pitch count.. Four innings and eight k's.. with one run is pretty damn impressive. The Mets hung around and hung around until they could scratch out one more run. Paul Emmel, the Home Plate Umpire.. had a typically inconsistent strike zone that contributed to the manner/location CPerez put his pitches.. After all the whining and complaining.. CP didn't get the hold.. Why he's in the game for a hold..is a mystery.. There are 12 arms in the pen..Closers close.. So.. the second wild card standings now appear as:

+3 ..............Rangers
0 ...............Tampa
-2...............Baltimore
-2 ..............Cleveland
-2 1/2 ........ New York
-3 1/2 .........Kansas City

Still, just 6 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race... Each of the six teams will have at least 19 games left to play after today respectively.. And the fun definitely continues with:

Rangers hosting the Pirates..

Tampa hosting the Red Sox.

Baltimore hosting the Yankees

and Kansas City coming to the North Coast..

The Indians need to punch the Royals in the mouth early and, then, often tonight.. not an easy task when you consider Ervin Santana is on the hill for them.. Santana's given the Indians fits in the past.. Ubaldo and his amazing rise back to prominence needs to be on his game.. The ballpark should be steamy to uncomfortably humid tonight with a very light southerly breeze blowing barely out to LF.. Could be a good night for the offense.. the only question: Who's?
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:33 pm

I am sick of CP!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:27 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:I am sick of CP!


Wasn't pretty, but he got the job done.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:01 am

Chief Wahoo is smiling as the sun peaks out above the haze from what is going to be a blazing hot mid September day. There was a lot to like about last night's game.. Let's start with what was most important..

Ubaldo was on his game..into the 7th inning he was bringing 96 mph heat.. This isn't the same guy from the first part of this year and all of last year.. Mickey Calloway has helped the U find the ability to repeat his delivery. Ubaldo has continued to throw fastball after fastball and is now able to throw it where ever he wants. With his assortment of curves, sliders, change up at odd angle and speeds, batters are just not able to square much of anything up.. 7 IP 10 K's 1 unearned run & he didn't go to pieces when the error brought home the KC run..

Jose Ramirez.. this kid is no third baseman, but, wouldn't be a bad fill in from time to time. He's clearly a middle infielder. Congrats on his first major league hit.. Impressive = his base running / pressure applied. He could be an interesting player for the Indians going forward..

Yanimal.. okay, he's the goods.. How could the Jays be this shortsighted?

Chris Perez..ho hum..another save in a save opportunity. The drama level was no more than usual.. sheeesh...

So, at the end of the evening, the wild card standings now appear as:

+2 1/2 .........Rangers (19 - Pirates )
0 ...............Tampa (20 - Red Sox)
-1 1/2..........Baltimore (19 - Yankees)
-1 1/2..........Cleveland (19 - Royals)
-3 ............. New York (18 - Orioles)
-4 ..............Kansas City (18 - Indians)

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The same 6 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race & fun definitely continues...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:21 am

Pretty much a typical offensively challenged night for the Indians.. They'd get runners on base.. and Guthrie would induce a double play ball and the rallies would fizzle.. It's baseball.. those things happen.. The heat and humidity certainly played a key role in the longevity of Z-Mac's outing. He lost command of his FB and left tooo many pitches up & over the plate. The Royals can hit.. When the Royals get any kind of pitching at all.. they can win.. The outing by Guthrie might be considered around normal or average, however, Hochevar was NASTY. Although the numbers posted by CC Lee were nothing to write home about, it's clear, he has an encouraging repertoire that can and will play well at the ML level. Call what he delivers Joe Smith II. Nice game by Chiz. He's swinging a good bat right now..

So, at the end of the evening, the wild card standings now appear as:

+2 1/2 .........Rangers (18 - Pirates )
0 ...............Tampa (19 - Red Sox)
-1 1/2..........Baltimore (18 - Yankees)
-1 1/2..........Cleveland (18 - Royals)
-2 ............. New York (17 - Orioles)
-3 ..............Kansas City (17 - Indians)

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The same 5 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race & fun definitely continues...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:03 am

With everyone else's schedule being so much more difficult than ours, I would say winning 12 of these next 18 games should get us that last wild card spot. We're gonna need to take 2 of 3 every series from here on out.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Tondo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:22 pm

Kazmir bailing out the "questionable" defense by Chisenhall and Santana by striking out Gordon to end the top half of the 4th inning.

I'd really like to see Santana be the "full time" DH next season and only backup C/1B.

Anyway, this is a very important game going on. Someone's got to come through today to win this.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby indians1 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:07 pm

First of all i want to congratulate the city of cleveland for showing once again how bad of a baseball town they are.

We are getting 12000+ fans when we are 2 games out of a playoff spot in september. The fans should not complain one bit about the dolans not spending money when they go out and spend over 100 million on free agents and are competitive and yet we are filling the stadium at 25% capacity.

Absolutely pathetic !!!

Now onto the games. We need some form of the Jason Kipnis that was hitting the tar off the ball in June. We don't need him to have an OPS of over 1.200, but the one that had an OPS of .881 in May would be nice.

He has hit. 240 in the 2nd half and an OPS of .689. Not good enough for the best player on the team. You can't have 2 good months in a season if you are the best player on your team.

I keep hearing how easy our schedule is the rest of the way. If we continue to get the crappy production from bourn, swisher, cabrera and kipnis, we are going to lose games that we shouldn't. We don't have masterson to anchor the rotation and when the offense is continuing to struggle like it is, it is going to be tough to go on a run with no dependable hitter in the lineup.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:32 pm

indians1 wrote:First of all i want to congratulate the city of cleveland for showing once again how bad of a baseball town they are.

We are getting 12000+ fans when we are 2 games out of a playoff spot in september. The fans should not complain one bit about the dolans not spending money when they go out and spend over 100 million on free agents and are competitive and yet we are filling the stadium at 25% capacity.

Absolutely pathetic !!!

Now onto the games. We need some form of the Jason Kipnis that was hitting the tar off the ball in June. We don't need him to have an OPS of over 1.200, but the one that had an OPS of .881 in May would be nice.

He has hit. 240 in the 2nd half and an OPS of .689. Not good enough for the best player on the team. You can't have 2 good months in a season if you are the best player on your team.

I keep hearing how easy our schedule is the rest of the way. If we continue to get the crappy production from bourn, swisher, cabrera and kipnis, we are going to lose games that we shouldn't. We don't have masterson to anchor the rotation and when the offense is continuing to struggle like it is, it is going to be tough to go on a run with no dependable hitter in the lineup.


I unfortunately agree.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:37 pm

More times than not, 4 hits will not win you a ball game... especially when 2 of those came in the 9th. Cabrera has no problem going after first pitches, yet takes a called third strike to end the game. Come on, man...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:33 am

If my count is right, that makes 27 Ks and 1 Walk(Thank you Carlos) for our "offense" this series.

Maybe I'm oldschool, but I really, really hate the strikeout. Last time I checked, we don't have a bunch of 30 homer types on this team. What part of "Get on base" do we not understand? Like it or not this team is built for small ball. Bourn and Stubbs have speed to burn and they don't get to use it. Bourn and Kipnis have been particularly disturbing with their 2nd half fade for the 2nd consecutive season. But at least Kipnis and Stubbs have some pop and a good SB %. Bourn's SB% and OBP are pretty lousy for a leadoff hitter. He and Stubbs both need to change their 2-strike approach and just put the ball into play or take a walk. Brantley has a somewhat similar skillset only he puts the ball into play and Ks far less.

If you can't hit it guys, just bunt and run like a sonofabitch. Maybe it's time to let Jose Ramirez start another one. He KNOWS he can't hit a fucking homerun.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:49 am

What can you say.. another offensively challenged game for the Indians.. Today they didn't even get runners on base.. and Shields was dominating.. It was another hot and humid day.. and it took Kazmir at least four batters before he realized.. these guys are hammering the first fastball they see.. The situation existed: the Royals can hit & when they get any kind of pitching at all.. they win.. The Brantley two run single was certainly a solid answer.. but that was pretty much it for the Indians attack.. Today is an off day, so, rest..relax and get ready for the remaining 17 games.. That was the bad news.. the good news.. saw the wild card chase squeeze ever so much closer..at the end of the evening, the wild card standings now appear as:

+2 1/2 .........Rangers (17 - A's )
0 ...............Tampa (18 - Red Sox)
-1 ............. New York (16 - Orioles)
-1 1/2..........Baltimore (17 - Yankees)
-1 1/2..........Cleveland (17 - CWSox)
-2 ..............Kansas City (16 -Tigers )

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

4 1/2 Games separate top to bottom in this race which is still up for grabs. The five teams vying for the last wild card is now separated by a scant 2 games. ONLY 2 GAMES!!! The fun definitely continues...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:30 pm

guess all they needed was a little ass-chewin'. :cool
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:51 am

So much for being offensively challenged.. just give Jason Kipnis a chance to sleep in his own bed (can the Indians have his bed added as part of the traveling/luggage?) & put Raburn back in the lineup and the Wahoos go on the warpath....

Too many good offensive games, so, the focus will be where it needs to be going forward..

Kluber Lang: goes five innings wrapped around a rain delay and multiple twenty plus minute delays from inning to inning and keeps it together.. Kluber is now 5-1 following an Indians loss.. his assortment of fastballs and that nasty breaking ball is going to push him into the top three for the Tribe's rotation, going forward..

The Cowboy: Josh Tomlin goes two innings.. pounds the strike zone..and doesn't look like he's lost a thing since his departure for TJ surgery. Three of every four pitches he threw were for strikes & he just kept getting better.. With his return, it could be more and more likely that he'll be on the Tribe's rotation in the 2014 season..

In a night when everything seemed to be going right, there were, perhaps, two things that could have been better.. The wince from Carlos Santana says the Tito will probably give him a day or more of rest. The offense is better with CSan in it.. The Rangers completed being swept by the Pirates (taking a 1/2 game off the race for the 1st Wild Card) while the Orioles loss to the Yankees moved them behind the Indians. So, at the end of the night, the wild card chase squeezed and relaxed and now appears as:

+2 ..............Rangers (17 - A's )
0 ...............Tampa (17 - @Twins)
-1 ............. New York (15 - @Red Sox)
-1 1/2..........Cleveland (16 - @CWSox)
-2 1/2..........Baltimore (16 - @Jays)
-2 1/2..........Kansas City (16 - @Tigers )

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

Call the games for five of the six combatants coming up the Road Warrior Weekend !! Five teams remain 4 1/2 games apart/separating top to bottom in this race. It is still up for grabs. Even though the Yankees are still in front of the Indians, it should be noted that the Indians & NYY"s are tied in the loss column. The fun definitely continues...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:07 am

Thank you for your daily updates on the wild card chase.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:49 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Thank you for your daily updates on the wild card chase.


I even get the updates correct some of the time!!.. :redface
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby nubballguy » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:26 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Thank you for your daily updates on the wild card chase.

+1
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:41 pm

Salazar 9 k's out of 11 outs, my GOD!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby El Em » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:26 pm

What is the likelihood that DS ceases these short starts and begins throwing his brand of fire an inning at a time out of the pen? I am starting to think it is the best, most productive use of his remaining innings...could be an awesome weapon in our playoff push!

All that aside, I remain very positive about the Tribe's chances. I still do not think Tampa or Texas are locks to hold on to the wild cards...they have wiggle room, but neither has played well for weeks, and they have relatively challenging schedules.

Go Tribe!
Larry
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:28 pm

El Em wrote:What is the likelihood that DS ceases these short starts and begins throwing his brand of fire an inning at a time out of the pen? I am starting to think it is the best, most productive use of his remaining innings...could be an awesome weapon in our playoff push!

All that aside, I remain very positive about the Tribe's chances. I still do not think Tampa or Texas are locks to hold on to the wild cards...they have wiggle room, but neither has played well for weeks, and they have relatively challenging schedules.

Go Tribe!
Larry


You sir present excellent logic. CP is driving me nuts! If we are going to make the move it needs to be soon. I note - such a change would be seismic to the way Francona protects his players and their roles.

Bob
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby indians1 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:18 pm

As bad as chris perez has been, you can't move salazar from the rotation. With masterson gone for a while, who can you put in the rotation?

Salazar at 4-6 innings is better than anybody else. You can't honestly expect carrasco to pitch in the rotation. He is a nightmare. Trevor Bauer isn't an option. That should tell you how far he has fallen this year. Josh Tomlin is just back from surgery. So who is there?

We don't have any depth in starting rotation. There is no room for error. It is sink or swim with salazar. And quite frankly besides jimenez, salazar has been our best pitcher as of late. Kluber- is good but not on the roll that he was prior to his injury. McAlister has been lost since his comeback from injury. Kazmir is battling arm fatigue.

Unfortunately, there aren't any other options.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby El Em » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:18 pm

I get we do not have great starting options, but Salazar's last 6 starts have consumed 27 innings (4.5 innings/per)...his last three starts have featured pitch counts around 80...trending for less and less innings and inevitably a shut down. Certainly I am not knocking the kid, and understand the need/desire to protect him, but I am wanting to maximize his immense talents for this playoff run. Maybe Carrasco and Tomlin can give us 2 or three innings each in a combined start? The bullpen gets lots of work in Salazar starts anyway.

As frustrating as CP can be, I do not see it as reasonable to have Salazar take his place, rather, I would like to see him in a 1 or two inning role, 3 times a week...I am dreaming of K-Rod as a rookie, if you remember the 2002 playoffs...hell, 80% of that would be great.

There are no great solutions, so let's be creative and maximize one our best talents. WHEN the tribe gets involved in play in games, wild cards, and onward, I want Salazar to be one of the guys contributing, not shut down and watching.

Looking forward to confronting these problems...

Larry
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:09 pm

Inre: What do we do with Salazar to maximize his contribution/effectiveness for the Indians going down the stretch. Does it make any sense to take a raw rookie who's only role is X.. and have him change to Y.. in the middle of a playoff push?.. The conclusion is obvious.. the best use of his 80 pitches is starting games with a double digit K/9 IP and an ERA of 2.66// It's the best that can be hoped for..

Mickey Calloway w/ Tito's blessing has specifically stated that as long as the Indians are in the chase for a wild card slot in the playoffs, Danny Salazar will continue to start.. A few weeks back, it was suggested that Danny Salazar, Scott Kazmir, Carlos Carrasco and Corey Kluber be piggy-backed to form a pair of starters. That proposal still makes some sense, however, not to the extent it might have now that Kluber Lang has returned to form. So Kluber-Lang will not be part of the piggy back situation. There is, also, a curious effect that has been seen with Scott Kazmir: after an extending his rest from four off days to five and six off days he has produced 17 innings pitched, 5 earned runs and 24 strike outs. When he went back to four days rest, he gave up three runs in four innings. It's apparent that the extra rest makes sense for him and should be considered in lieu of a piggy back. These patterns are not etched in stone, nor should they be. The sample size is much too small to be definitive. It appears a short term solution that gets the best use of the arms in the rotation could include using some of this approach with a rotation set up as:

Salazar starts.. 80 pitches.. piggy back with Carlos Carrasco
Masterson starts.. 100 pitches.. no piggy back.. (first start back: September 19th v Astros)
Ubaldo starts.. 100 + Pitches.. no piggy back..
Kazmir starts.. 90 pitches.. (with CC-Lite as a potential piggy back for pitch limit)
Z-Mac starts.. 100 pitches.. no piggy back..
Kluber starts.. 100 pitches.. no piggy back..

...this puts Carlos Carrasco in the role as a planned long man while giving him two days of rest between appearances. The benefit from giving Kazmir five days of rest between starts is created.. and because the Indians have one more off day the rest of the way.. this will allow the entire staff the opportunity to be in the proper order for the potential one game play in date with Masterson slated to start on five days rest...

It's a thought..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:17 pm

Not everything went as planned last night.. however.. some things did.. at the end of the night, the Rangers & Yankees lost..The Indians Orioles Tigers and Rays won, giving thereby tightening the first wild card to a scant single game while moving the Indians to the runner up for either of the wild card spots.. At the end of the night, the wild card chase appears as:

+1 ..............Rangers (16 - A's )
0 ...............Tampa (16 - @Twins)
-1 1/2..........Cleveland (15 - @CWSox)
-2 ............. New York (14 - @Red Sox)
-2 1/2..........Baltimore (15 - @Jays)
-3 1/2..........Kansas City (15 - @Tigers )

Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

Even though the separation between the six teams remains at 4 1/2 games, NOW both wild cards are clearly in play. The fun definitely continues... Go Red Sox, Jays, A's, Twins and (ugh!) Tigers !
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:21 pm

El Em wrote:I get we do not have great starting options, but Salazar's last 6 starts have consumed 27 innings (4.5 innings/per)...his last three starts have featured pitch counts around 80...trending for less and less innings and inevitably a shut down. Certainly I am not knocking the kid, and understand the need/desire to protect him, but I am wanting to maximize his immense talents for this playoff run. Maybe Carrasco and Tomlin can give us 2 or three innings each in a combined start? The bullpen gets lots of work in Salazar starts anyway.

As frustrating as CP can be, I do not see it as reasonable to have Salazar take his place, rather, I would like to see him in a 1 or two inning role, 3 times a week...I am dreaming of K-Rod as a rookie, if you remember the 2002 playoffs...hell, 80% of that would be great.

There are no great solutions, so let's be creative and maximize one our best talents. WHEN the tribe gets involved in play in games, wild cards, and onward, I want Salazar to be one of the guys contributing, not shut down and watching.

Looking forward to confronting these problems...

Larry


Good post Larry. You should do it more often.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:46 pm

I just feel like this needs mentioned considering how difficult its been to find FOR starters for us...

Big Fat Bartolo Colon is 16-6 with an era hovering around 2.80. Unbelievable. Give credit to Billy B for resigning him even after his PED suspension.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:46 pm

BrianM wrote:I just feel like this needs mentioned considering how difficult its been to find FOR starters for us...

Big Fat Bartolo Colon is 16-6 with an era hovering around 2.80. Unbelievable. Give credit to Billy B for resigning him even after his PED suspension.


Brian.. Chris Antonetti and Brad Grant were with Bartolo in the Dominican Winter League desperately trying to sign him.. He & his agent refused.. that's why the Indians ended up with Derek Lowe in 2012..
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:52 pm

So far.. so good today..the Indians have their first pitch in just over 2 hours and the Yankees and Rangers have already lost. The O's are clinging to a one run lead against the Jays, but, that might change.. Even if it doesn't, we could be looking at one game separating the top three teams in the Wild Card(s) chase by days end..

The Wahoos need to be on the warpath this evening.. Tomorrow's game is not going to be an easy one with Sale going for the Pale Hoe's... and the fun just keeps on coming..(hopefully Hits by the Tribe, as well...)

Edit..it did change..the Jays came back to win 4-3..Chris Tillman and my fantasy baseball team got screwed out of a W..oh well.. IRL has priority...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:04 pm

Ubaldo has pitched at an MVP level for this team, as starter after starter has gone down, with kazmir's dead arm issues, with Salazar's pitch counts. The Big U has really justified this trade and come through big time when we've needed him most. I have been hard on him as has most people, but I tip my cap to what he's done this season.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:21 pm

..and the fun reached a new level tonight.. if the Yankee Red Sox game finishes as it is (we'll know sometime around midnight.. that will be 5 hours after first pitch).. then, the first and second wild card will be tied by both the Rays and Rangers while the Indians will become runner up, by a slim half game to both teams.. At the end of the night, the wild card chase could appears as:

0 ...............Rangers (15 - @Rays )
0 ...............Tampa (15 - Rangers)
-1/2 ...........Cleveland (14 - @Royals)
-2 1/2..........Baltimore (14 - @Red Sox)
-3 ............. New York (13 - @Jays)
-3 1/2..........Kansas City (14 - Indians )


Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

Now comes the really fun part of the up coming serieseseseseseeseses.. The two current wild card holders play each other. So, at least one team will win.. and one will lose, every night.. The Indians and Royals face off in a rematch of last weeks series win by the Royals. The Orioles head to Boston to face the very tough Red Sox who are in the process of completing a sweep of the Yankees. The Yankees get to head to Toronto after a day off.. They'll need it after their weekend pasting in BeatDown..err.. Beantown.. The separation between the six teams now reduces itself to 3 1/2 games.

Between the Indians drive for a playoff spot.. and the utter collapse of the Browns in Baltimore, the city should be abuzz with tribe town talk.... Remember where you heard it first.. Minnesota is GOING TO KILL what optimism remains for that pathetic football franchise.. Oh and Three...
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 am

Huge Game tomorrow..... A win guarantees a wild card spot, at least for a day...Big time baseball games are yet to be played.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:03 am

criznit2009 wrote:Huge Game tomorrow..... A win guarantees a wild card spot, at least for a day...Big time baseball games are yet to be played.
Yep.. big game..all the games are big games now...

Not an easy match up tonight.. Big Game James Shields v Scotty Kazmir.. The Indians have a propensity to improve to almost mythical proportions when facing a pitcher after he shuts them down in a recent start.. Tonight could be that kind of outing. Kazmir and his slider.. if he's commanding it.. he can be tough on ANYONE.. If he's a one pitch pitcher, then the balance tips the other way.. The weather forecast doesn't look too promising.. Could be a wet cool evening in Missouri..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:18 am

Tondo wrote:Kazmir bailing out the "questionable" defense by Chisenhall and Santana by striking out Gordon to end the top half of the 4th inning.

I'd really like to see Santana be the "full time" DH next season and only backup C/1B.

Anyway, this is a very important game going on. Someone's got to come through today to win this.


I still want to see Santana get work in the OF (winter ball and spring training) to see how he would look out there. But as far as C/1B...agree DH is probably better than those options. Just like Swisher's defense at 1B better. Plus puts less wear on his body as he ages. A good defensive 1B will save you more than a good defensive RFer IMO too. Plus...can't see Santana being worse than Manny Ramirez out there, and we put up with that for over 7 years.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:21 am

BrianM wrote:With everyone else's schedule being so much more difficult than ours, I would say winning 12 of these next 18 games should get us that last wild card spot. We're gonna need to take 2 of 3 every series from here on out.


Should get us that last wild card spot? Hell, that could easily get us the first wild card spot with how bad Texas has played! :biggrin
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:32 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
BrianM wrote:With everyone else's schedule being so much more difficult than ours, I would say winning 12 of these next 18 games should get us that last wild card spot. We're gonna need to take 2 of 3 every series from here on out.


Should get us that last wild card spot? Hell, that could easily get us the first wild card spot with how bad Texas has played! :biggrin


Every game matters.. tonight is no exception.. If Scott Kazmir pitches his game and gets the W, then, the Indians will be the holder of second of the two the wild car spots. Whoever the loses between the Rays & Rangers with an Indians win is automatically in the first wild card spot. If the Rays and Rangers reverse the results, then the Indians can grab onto the first wild card slot.. IOW, it will take at least two nights..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:15 am

17 strikeouts. Seven-teen.

We don't have a clue vs. K.C. pitching.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:34 am

Not a great night for contact at the Big K last night.. too many swinnnggggg and misses.. Brian O'Nora's strike zone was a bit odd all night.. sometimes the pitch just off the plate was a strike.. sometimes it wasn't.. sometimes the sinking change up was low, sometimes it was a strike.. It's safe to say the Scott Kazmir and Mr O'Nora won't be exchanging Christmas cards this year.. Sad, when a game of such importance has a moving target like that..

At the end of the night, only Lonnie's big fly gave the Indians their only run. Big Game James Shields shut down the wet and weary Wahoos for the rest of the night.. So, with the Yankee, Red Sox and Orioles having the night off, the Rays topping the Rangers at the end of the night, the wild card chase could appears as:

+1..............Tampa (13 - Rangers)
0 ...............Rangers (13 - @Rays )
-1/2 ...........Cleveland (12 - @Royals)
-2 ..............Baltimore (13 - @Red Sox)
-2 1/2......... New York (12 - @Jays)
-2 1/2..........Kansas City (12 - Indians )


Note: (total games remaining - next opponent)

The Indians and Royals face off for the middle game of their three game set with the royals. The Indians will be sending Corey Kluber to the hill while the Royals are sending Yordano "Ace" Ventura.. a raw rookie making his major league debut. Here's some stuff about the kid:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/r ... qus_thread

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... ypepad.com

http://www.baseball-intellect.com/scout ... o-ventura/

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... kc&c_id=kc


The separation between the six teams remains at 3 1/2 games. Should be an interesting night at the Big K...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby go_tribe » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:00 pm

wow things didn't look good early on, but impressive come back tonight with all the momentum in KC's favor
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:19 pm

What a rocket by Bourn. Its incredible how much more confident I feel with the extra run. Perez freaks me out. After one batter tonight though, hes throwing hard and looking good...knock on wood.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:21 pm

I missed the beginning of the game, but after reading some of Tony's tweets, that strike to Hosmer may have been an IOU.
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