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Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 13, 2013 6:59 pm

Good point about contractual control homer. If that's an issue, it's one that should be considered. I do not know, that's a Hermie query if I have ever heard one, but if anyone knows the answer please share it
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon May 13, 2013 9:33 pm

I think gaming the future at the expense of this year is idiocy. It looks to me like a perfect storm is coming together when next year is this year. I would give Kluber two more starts - and then make a decision. Reynolds is here this year. Now looks to me like the time. If Bauer is a winner - then - now is the time. I am too old to game the future.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 13, 2013 10:29 pm

Sure.. it sounds like a good idea.. get an extra year of control.. but with the time Bauer spent in Arizona (I think four starts) and three starts now for the Indians.. he might already be beyond the cut off date for that. In five or six years, that might matter.. but it doesn't today.. In five or six years his arm & brains can be taking him to a HOF career, or he could be a mediocre version of the next middle to back of the rotation starter the Indians & their fans will be watching leave for the riches of free agency and bright lights..

If he stays. great.. use him, exploit him.. channel his talent.. win games while he's here..enjoy the ride When he leaves.. do the best to maximize his value to the club upon his departure..be that with a draft pick or an astute trade.. Get the next pitcher ready now.. In short, root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.. (This is the reason why the Yankees don't have their player's names on the backs of their jerseys).. As long as the financial playing field for MLB is uneven, that's the best the Indians and other small to medium sized clubs are going to do...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Mon May 13, 2013 10:38 pm

Here's my thing with Bauer... I'd send him back to Columbus until August. He's just not ready. I know you guys are saying oh just have him take the lumps and learn on the fly... Thing about it is.. if he doesn't do well early, he could lose confidence. And then to send him back down? You want to find any way to make him succeed and IMO, that's not one of them.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 13, 2013 11:17 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Here's my thing with Bauer... I'd send him back to Columbus until August. He's just not ready. I know you guys are saying oh just have him take the lumps and learn on the fly... Thing about it is.. if he doesn't do well early, he could lose confidence. And then to send him back down? You want to find any way to make him succeed and IMO, that's not one of them.


I can see the point of saying he isn't ready. He is young and has control issues...He also has 7 ML starts. Given the current overall state of the Cleveland team, which is obviously good, I think he makes the team even better and playing on a team running towards the pennant will elimate any "confidence" issues he might have . IMO confidence isn't really an issue with Bauer - given his "quirks" or whatever you want to call it... I believe he knows he is "learning" and doing his best to limit his mistakes which given his control issues has been pretty damn lucky/good.

While his control is an issue, I really don't see how more time in Cbus will prepare him for this. You gotta put it where you want to put it, and really how does that "strategy'" differ from AAA to the show? He has moxie, attitude, passion, balls, etc. and they don't teach that AAA. I also believe he has shown a ton of ability. I would attempt an ML campaign with Bauer this season right now for 3 reasons.
1. Worst case you're not burning an option if he struggles.
2. Does OK - gains a TON of experience for next season.
3. He ends up being a rookie sensation..

I am not a fan of wait and see most of the time, but i really feel this is a solid case for let's go for it, were gunning for it now! Now, if I could see the value of playing it safe/"seasoning" I would. But in this case I don't and besides, IMO the tribe's success rate in utilizing this method over the last 8ish years or so, makes me want to see him in Cleveland every day even more.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 14, 2013 7:14 am

criznit2009 wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:Here's my thing with Bauer... I'd send him back to Columbus until August. He's just not ready. I know you guys are saying oh just have him take the lumps and learn on the fly... Thing about it is.. if he doesn't do well early, he could lose confidence. And then to send him back down? You want to find any way to make him succeed and IMO, that's not one of them.


I can see the point of saying he isn't ready. He is young and has control issues...He also has 7 ML starts. Given the current overall state of the Cleveland team, which is obviously good, I think he makes the team even better and playing on a team running towards the pennant will elimate any "confidence" issues he might have . IMO confidence isn't really an issue with Bauer - given his "quirks" or whatever you want to call it... I believe he knows he is "learning" and doing his best to limit his mistakes which given his control issues has been pretty damn lucky/good.

While his control is an issue, I really don't see how more time in Cbus will prepare him for this. You gotta put it where you want to put it, and really how does that "strategy'" differ from AAA to the show? He has moxie, attitude, passion, balls, etc. and they don't teach that AAA. I also believe he has shown a ton of ability. I would attempt an ML campaign with Bauer this season right now for 3 reasons.
1. Worst case you're not burning an option if he struggles.
2. Does OK - gains a TON of experience for next season.
3. He ends up being a rookie sensation..

I am not a fan of wait and see most of the time, but i really feel this is a solid case for let's go for it, were gunning for it now! Now, if I could see the value of playing it safe/"seasoning" I would. But in this case I don't and besides, IMO the tribe's success rate in utilizing this method over the last 8ish years or so, makes me want to see him in Cleveland every day even more.


I'm with Criz on this..

There is enough there (Talent, Moxie, Baseball IQ) for Bauer to be an effective ML starter and he's only going to continue to improve as C-Squared (Callaway & Cash) work with him at the highest level. Just having him in the dugout during Justin Masterson's masterpiece to witness how a real M.L. F.O.R. S.P. performs has to be eye opening and educational. The subject of him being fragile and or losing confidence could be a factor, but is doubtful for an introspective player of this kid's quality.

Keep him here.. Keep him on an upward trajectory (by keeping the walks down)..

btw.. get Carlos Carrasco back to the ML's as fast as possible too.. and let's quit with the head case nonsense.. Let his mean streak breath....
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Tue May 14, 2013 9:00 am

In three starts Bauer has pitched 16.1 innings and given up 9 hits. His ERA is 2.76. I think it's clear that he's ready.

He can replace Kluber, who's given up 28 hits in 22 innings with a 5.64 ERA. Obviously Kluber is a lot more hittable than Bauer. He's also givng up over twice as many runs per 9 innings.

Yes, the walks are a concern. 15 free passes in 16.1 innings is no joke. But there's two things about that. One, Bauer is completely unphased by traffic on the bases. Despite allowing 24 baserunners in 16 innings, his ERA is well under 3.00. He does a great job of stranding runners. He just makes good pitches when he needs to.

Secondly, in yesterday's start he only walked two batters in 6.1 innings. It's only one start, but it's an improvement. My guess is he was a little amped up in his first couple of starts and is now settling down. If he were starting every 5th game he would settle down even more.

Bauer has been much better than Kluber, and he's younger with a higher upside. Kluber is 27 years old and he's not pitching nearly as well as Bauer. I'm not sure why he's being sent down and Kluber is still in the rotation.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 14, 2013 9:36 am

Another note from yesterday's game that may go unnoticed.. or unappreciated was the work of David Huff in the 8th inning and then ninth.... It's clear that the game was already decided, nothing was going to change that, however, no one was throwing the towel in.. not the Indians and certainly not the Yankee..

The Yankees had put another running in scoring position when Matt Albers was replaced by David Huff.. Huff proceeded to strike out the next two batters.. He just dominated them closing out the inning.. Huff started & finished the ninth inning just as strong, albeit, not with the strike out, but, with the double play..

It was nice to see another lefty reliever (with Rich Hill) come into a game and throw quality strikes...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby nubballguy » Tue May 14, 2013 12:58 pm

What's the deal w/Hagadone?

Got to watch him pitch yesterday and it occured to me that when he came here as a prospect the word was what a power pitcher he was. Reports of 97-98, "with more possible" were oft quoted on this site. Yesterday, he was sitting consistently around 92, touching 94 twice with pitches up and out of the zone. Don't get me wrong I wish I could throw 92, but you hear so much about a player for so long that when you finally get to see him, you have to be unimpressed by what you're seeing first hand. And of course that's not even touching on the control issues he had throwing the ball all over the place.

All that said, if not for that bloop job hit by Nix, his pitching line could have looked drastically better yesterday.

Like I said, as an avid reader of this site who doesn't get to watch the team live hardly at all, I'm curious what those of you who see him regularly think about his velocity and how it stands in comparison to what was advertised and any possible explanation such as injury, trading power for location (not that it seemed to be working) or a slow gun, etc. Thanks.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 14, 2013 3:37 pm

nubballguy wrote:What's the deal w/Hagadone?

Got to watch him pitch yesterday and it occured to me that when he came here as a prospect the word was what a power pitcher he was. Reports of 97-98, "with more possible" were oft quoted on this site. Yesterday, he was sitting consistently around 92, touching 94 twice with pitches up and out of the zone. Don't get me wrong I wish I could throw 92, but you hear so much about a player for so long that when you finally get to see him, you have to be unimpressed by what you're seeing first hand. And of course that's not even touching on the control issues he had throwing the ball all over the place.

All that said, if not for that bloop job hit by Nix, his pitching line could have looked drastically better yesterday.

Like I said, as an avid reader of this site who doesn't get to watch the team live hardly at all, I'm curious what those of you who see him regularly think about his velocity and how it stands in comparison to what was advertised and any possible explanation such as injury, trading power for location (not that it seemed to be working) or a slow gun, etc. Thanks.


From the speed aspect of things.. this was from back in June 2012:
One thing he did do was light up the radar gun that flashes the speed of pitches on the scoreboard. Hagadone delivered at least one pitch 98 miles per hour and mixed in some 97s and 96s. Usually, his fastball registers 93-94 on the gun, which is above average, especially for left-handers.
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Umpire Calls

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue May 14, 2013 7:58 pm

Saturday we got a blessing from a dumb umpire. Tonight we got shafted by a dumb umpire. I guess things do even up over the course of 162.
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Re: Umpire Calls

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:Saturday we got a blessing from a dumb umpire. Tonight we got shafted by a dumb umpire. I guess things do even up over the course of 162.


With the way the ruling was explained "..where the ball is..." versus what should have been "a player in the field of play touching the ball...". Why wouldn't a player make sure he knocks the ball to foul territory regardless of making the catch or not making the catch.. a catch is an out. Not making the catch is no play..

Something was clearly wrong with the ruling tonight.. cost the Indians two runs.. certainly, and changed the complexion of the game..

W/R to Kazmir.. not a bad effort. On most nights, he would have been in line for the W or at least a shot at it.. He kept the club in the game..

Both Carlos Santana & Mark Reynolds appear to be pressing a wee bit..now..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed May 15, 2013 3:23 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Sure.. it sounds like a good idea.. get an extra year of control.. but with the time Bauer spent in Arizona (I think four starts) and three starts now for the Indians.. he might already be beyond the cut off date for that.


No. He spent all of 21 days up with Arizona last year, and since he's been spot starting this year, I think he's added only 3 days to that clock. You only need to keep him down another month or so to get the extra year... it would take longer to get the extra year without Super 2 status. That would likely mean keeping him down until July/August.

That being said, I'm fine with Kluber being up for now. Advanced stats suggest he's better than he's looked (FIP and xFIP are a full run to a run and half lower than his actual ERA, his BABIP is .373 this year and was .342 last year), and I think we're all being a little too quick to judge a guy who's had 15 starts in his whole career so far. I think a lot of people are treating him like he's the next Huff/Sowers/Gomez/Talbot, but I think he'll end up being a useful piece like McAllister. I actually think he'll end up being better for the team than Myers or Ubaldo by year's end.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 15, 2013 4:58 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Sure.. it sounds like a good idea.. get an extra year of control.. but with the time Bauer spent in Arizona (I think four starts) and three starts now for the Indians.. he might already be beyond the cut off date for that.


No. He spent all of 21 days up with Arizona last year, and since he's been spot starting this year, I think he's added only 3 days to that clock. You only need to keep him down another month or so to get the extra year... it would take longer to get the extra year without Super 2 status. That would likely mean keeping him down until July/August.

That being said, I'm fine with Kluber being up for now. Advanced stats suggest he's better than he's looked (FIP and xFIP are a full run to a run and half lower than his actual ERA, his BABIP is .373 this year and was .342 last year), and I think we're all being a little too quick to judge a guy who's had 15 starts in his whole career so far. I think a lot of people are treating him like he's the next Huff/Sowers/Gomez/Talbot, but I think he'll end up being a useful piece like McAllister. I actually think he'll end up being better for the team than Myers or Ubaldo by year's end.


IDK about the usefulness comment...that's difficult to say and you may be 100% correct... It may not take much to achieve that for Myers, but, at the end of the day, he's still a vet that's been getting away with it for years.. Ublado has shown now in three consecutive starts that he can be coached.. C-Squared have obviously found something with him...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed May 15, 2013 5:15 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:IDK about the usefulness comment...that's difficult to say and you may be 100% correct... It may not take much to achieve that for Myers, but, at the end of the day, he's still a vet that's been getting away with it for years.. Ublado has shown now in three consecutive starts that he can be coached.. C-Squared have obviously found something with him...


I'm still skeptical on Ubaldo. We've seen a few good starts from him before... the question with him has always been consistency. To me, he's at a place where he has to do a lot, and do it over an extended period of time, to prove that he's actually worth keeping around. Fangraphs did a pretty positive piece on him and said that the advanced stats are pretty encouraging. But I think baseball requires patience. Just as I'd say we need to be patient before writing off Kluber, I think we need to be patient before declaring Ubaldo fixed.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby nubballguy » Wed May 15, 2013 5:45 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
nubballguy wrote:What's the deal w/Hagadone?

Got to watch him pitch yesterday and it occured to me that when he came here as a prospect the word was what a power pitcher he was. Reports of 97-98, "with more possible" were oft quoted on this site. Yesterday, he was sitting consistently around 92, touching 94 twice with pitches up and out of the zone. Don't get me wrong I wish I could throw 92, but you hear so much about a player for so long that when you finally get to see him, you have to be unimpressed by what you're seeing first hand. And of course that's not even touching on the control issues he had throwing the ball all over the place.

All that said, if not for that bloop job hit by Nix, his pitching line could have looked drastically better yesterday.

Like I said, as an avid reader of this site who doesn't get to watch the team live hardly at all, I'm curious what those of you who see him regularly think about his velocity and how it stands in comparison to what was advertised and any possible explanation such as injury, trading power for location (not that it seemed to be working) or a slow gun, etc. Thanks.


From the speed aspect of things.. this was from back in June 2012:
One thing he did do was light up the radar gun that flashes the speed of pitches on the scoreboard. Hagadone delivered at least one pitch 98 miles per hour and mixed in some 97s and 96s. Usually, his fastball registers 93-94 on the gun, which is above average, especially for left-handers.


Thanks for that Zajac. I watched him pitch the inning today and I saw some 95s and at least one 96 I think with more 93-94 as a baseline so that seemed better to me, not so at odds with what I understood. Still, I guess I was always carrying this impression or a guy who was consistently operating in the upper 90s register.

Also, I thought a nice bounce back start by Kluber today. I really think he's a decent starter, a guy you can roll out there as a #5 and have a fair chance to be in the game more often than not with a clunker here or there but a great start mixed in too. Definitely think he can hold things down while Myers is out and allows the Indians to gain control of Bauer for another year. Personally I like him in the rotation better than Myers but understand that $7 mil is going to play...until its proven it can't.

If you look at the team's starters after this year, UJ, Myers and Kazmir contracts are expiring. Myers was/is clearly a stopgap for this year so I'm sure they'll send him on his way at the end of this year. I can see them look to resign either of the remaining two if their full body of work holds up to what they've done recently and the team remains competitive this year but if they do, I can imagine they would be looking for significant paydays that might just price them out of Cleveland. Of the two, Kazmir, mainly for his left handedness, is the one I'd most want to target. Even if you do retain him (or Jimenez) you'll need someone like Kluber even with Bauer and Carrasco ready to assume they're role in the rotation. Even if Salazar is ready, you're going to need someone solid like Kluber and I think the more time he gets to pitch in the majors this year, the more valuable he'll be in '14.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 15, 2013 8:22 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:IDK about the usefulness comment...that's difficult to say and you may be 100% correct... It may not take much to achieve that for Myers, but, at the end of the day, he's still a vet that's been getting away with it for years.. Ublado has shown now in three consecutive starts that he can be coached.. C-Squared have obviously found something with him...


I'm still skeptical on Ubaldo. We've seen a few good starts from him before... the question with him has always been consistency. To me, he's at a place where he has to do a lot, and do it over an extended period of time, to prove that he's actually worth keeping around. Fangraphs did a pretty positive piece on him and said that the advanced stats are pretty encouraging. But I think baseball requires patience. Just as I'd say we need to be patient before writing off Kluber, I think we need to be patient before declaring Ubaldo fixed.


+1

Fangraphs also did a nice piece on Danny Salazar..but, alluded to a bullpen role in the future for him. That might come to pass, however, like with so many of these kids, they get put into the pen and that's it.. that's what they are.. imho, Cody Allen is showing enough to consider him for a future as a starter.. the question becomes.. is he too valuable right now in his current role or has the "die been cast"?

Another example of this shows up in today's story at IBI about Austin Adams.. Once he was considered a top ten prospect and was being groomed as a starting pitcher.. well.. TJ surgery and a year later and:

... the organization is doing to help Adams get back is pitch him out of the bullpen. He has been developed as a starter to date, though he has experience relieving in the past. Adams played shortstop in college and came in as a reliever to close out games.

"I was okay with it," Adams said. "I kind of had a feeling after everything got back to normal I'd go in the bullpen, at least for this year. We're still not sure what's going to happen, and that way they can keep an eye on my innings."

The bullpen is suiting Adams well...


Sure, it makes sense for him to be in the pen.. but, from the comments.. it's clear, Adams is settling.. and shouldn't. He has the talent and drive to be a ML SP.. the return to work program via the pen as a starting point seldom goes to that next step of returning to the starting role.. Austin Adams, with his stuff and four pitch mix..should be a starter, imho.. not a flame throwing RP that might cobble together a ML career if the right opportunity opens up..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu May 16, 2013 1:13 am

Granted 2014 is a long ways away.. but it'll be interesting to see what the 2014 rotation looks like..

Masterson
Ubaldo???
Bauer
Carrasco
Kluber/FA??
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu May 16, 2013 4:28 am

The Tribe will certainly have to make some moves. As much as I like guys ACab and Perez I think the Tribe still has to entertain moving them at some point - for SP. ACab I'm kind of quesy on moving now with Chiz back at AAA, that might make extending ACab or Reynolds a priority with Aviles able to fill in everyday at the other spot - I think we have to think in these terms bc of Chiz failure to adjust on the big stage. I hope and pray he's at least a avg. 3b but he's got some work to do with the bat (walks / approach).

I hate to say it but moving Masterson - ONLY IF he won't sign an extension could also become an option this offseason. OR... IF they fall out of contention for the AL Central. If the Tribe did trade him obviously they'd want SP in return.

If the Tribe can pull off some sort of deal and net 2 young qlty arms they have to consider it, IMHO.

At this point I think it's time to start looking at options the Tribe could bring in come July. Norris, Harrell, Feldman, Villanueva are a few who might be on the mkt.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 16, 2013 8:39 am

Kluber kind of reminds me of Josh Tomlin. Tomlin spent years working his way up through the minors and finally "arrived" as a BOR starter at age 26 when he went 12-7 with a 4.25 ERA.

Kluber is 27 and looks like he might be on the verge of establishing himself as a BOR starter with a similar ERA. Three out of his last four starts have been pretty decent.

By the way, Tomlin is starting to throw and may be in the mix next year, especially if we lose Ubaldo, Myers, and Kazmir. Worst case scenario is we go with Masterson, Bauer, Carrasco, McAllister, and Kluber/Tomlin/Salazar. Or sign a free agent starter with the money saved from the expiring contracts of Myers, Ubaldo, Kazmir, and Reynolds (if he's not resigned). That's about $20 million coming off the books if none of those players are resigned.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 16, 2013 8:46 am

Kipnis had a monster game yesterday with a three-run homer, two doubles, and a walk, all against left-handed pitchers.

Even the walk was huge because it came with two out and two runners on and loaded the bases for Cabrera's two-run single that pushed the lead to 7-3.

His only out was a fly ball to the warning track in straightaway center.

It's great to see him get going, especially with Santana falling off after his incredible start. After Kipnis' poor second half last year and slow start this year along with the elbow problems I was getting concerned.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 16, 2013 9:03 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:...

At this point I think it's time to start looking at options the Tribe could bring in come July. Norris, Harrell, Feldman, Villanueva are a few who might be on the mkt.


As "buyers", the market will be pretty competitive. The guys you've mentioned above could be augmented with teams falling out of the race.. The SP's mentioned here will be referred as "..Sue-Prize Sue-Prize !! Look what Chris did!! type acquisitions.." & could include:

-Yovanni Gallardo Milwaukee Brewers.. The Brew Crew is currently falling out of the race in the NL Central and have perhaps the next Gio Gonzalez type FOR SP that could be had for the right price. That right price may be more than the Indians are willing to consider.. Gallardo is under contract for the remainder of 2013 along with 2014 at $ 11 MM/year. He is a FA in 2015.

-Josh Johnson Toronto Blue Jays.. Has the remnants of his$ 13.75 MM 2013 contract remaining, so, he would be a three/four month rental.. His acquisition would be contingent upon him being healthy, of course..

-Brandon Morrow Toronto Blue Jays.. Morrow is under contract/control through 2015. His salary is very reasonable at $ 8MM per year.. The Jays would be loathe to let go of such an economically advantageous SP who has FOR stuff..

-Ricky Nolasco.. Miami Marlins. has the remnants of his $ 11.5 MM 2013 contract remaining and would represent a huge cost savings for the Marlins.. He'll be much in demand as his current billet entails getting his brains beat in regularly in South Beach...

-Jorge De La Rosa Colorado Rockies.. For whatever reason, this guy is just having himself a helluva year for a team that started out playing like their hair was on fire but have now come back to earth. It's doubtful that the Rockies have the means and talent necessary to compete in the ultra-competitive NL West. They may be looking for more than the Indians want to give up in terms of talent for the one and a half remaining years on J d l R's total $ 22 MM contract....

Thoughts?
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby indians1 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:28 pm

I think you have to trade perez and cabrera in the offseason if you can get quality starters. If Lindor is promoted to Akron and does well, i think you have to look at trading cabrera.

Perez- with the abundance of relief pitchers, again you trade perez
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 17, 2013 8:48 am

I don't think you trade Cabrera until Lindor is ready for the majors. Which won't be next year.

Now if the Cardinals or somebody offers another Trevor Bauer for him, I suppose you make the deal and plug in Aviles at SS for a year.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Fri May 17, 2013 10:42 am

Pitching is obviously more important than 3b, well IMO, but at this point the Tribe has to be concerned with Chisenhall. I like him but he has to translate the talent on the big stage and has not done it. It seemed like last yr he was about to break out and then was injured, it could be a matter of confidence at this point he seemed to have turned the corner in Spring. He's still only 24 but it's time for him to show he's the future at 3b otherwise the Tribe could be searching for another 3b.

I think for the Tribe to get what the club needs it could require some painful decisions on some of these guys. Masterson, ACab and Perez are three of my favorites but their contractual clock is ticking and the short / long term both must come into consideration. I'd like to see them lockup Masterson, ACab and Reynolds (Perez too) but I think it's likely that they only extend one or two of them. There's huge FA dollars awaiting that trio and Perez, it seems the smartest way to spend the money (budget) would be to move Perez for young SP at some point, particularly with the volume of qlty arms the Tribe has in the system.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 17, 2013 3:38 pm

Should be a pretty decent weather weekend for the fans.. Sunday's game is going to be special.. If you haven't seen the match ups..look at em.. It matters.. The Mariners come into the weekend series playing well and have started to score some runs for their beleaguered pitching staff..We'll see if the return of Vinnie Pestano and he continued good play of Kipnis / Asdrubal continue.. and the Tribe can win the series before that HUGE matchup on Sunday...

BTW>. in order to bring Vinnie P off the DL, Nick Hagadone was sent back to the minors.. According the Sheldon Ocker also know as Seldom Right Ocker, Hagadone didn't do anything to deserve his demotion other than having an option. Makes you wonder if he every watches the games or attends any????? Seldom Right Ocker is clueless..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat May 18, 2013 8:00 am

Edible14 wrote:I'm still skeptical on Ubaldo. We've seen a few good starts from him before... the question with him has always been consistency. To me, he's at a place where he has to do a lot, and do it over an extended period of time, to prove that he's actually worth keeping around. Fangraphs did a pretty positive piece on him and said that the advanced stats are pretty encouraging. But I think baseball requires patience. Just as I'd say we need to be patient before writing off Kluber, I think we need to be patient before declaring Ubaldo fixed.


Last four starts he's allowed five runs and struck out 29. I'm about ready to declare him fixed.

At least until he loses his release point or something.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat May 18, 2013 8:47 am

Jimenez last five outings...
28 2/3 IP
33 K
2.83 era

I won't say he's fixed, it will take much longer for me to even consider such language. It was good to see him 95 on the gun Friday night and ring up 9 K's.

I'm certainly impressed with the overall results thus far from Mickey Callaway because he has all of these guys clicking right now. It gives me confidence he can get Bauer and Carrasco on track once they get the big league call for good.

The irony in baseball, the Tribe signed Myers bc he's been an innings eater throughout his career and now he's dealing with injury. You just never know. It reminds me of the saying there is no such thing as pitching depth. What most of us fans thought would be the clubs weakness has performed strongly.

For the club to remain in contention for the AL Central I think the club needs to add at least one qlty arm to solidify the rotation.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat May 18, 2013 9:45 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:

For the club to remain in contention for the AL Central I think the club needs to add at least one qlty arm to solidify the rotation.


"At least one quality arm"?

I take it you aren't planning on trading for somebody to replace Masterson, Ubaldo or McAllister. So... Kazmir?

If they get just one quality arm, I assume he would be replacing Kluber. Except Kluber has started four games and given up either 2 or 3 earned runs in three of them. I'll take that from my #5 starter.

And once Myers is ready to go, he'll take Kluber's spot. We also have Bauer and Carrasco pitching lights out in Columbus. Did I mention Bauer has a 2.76 ERA for the Indians in limited opportunities?

I don't think we need to be trading for starting pitching right now. We're 19-7 since starting off 5-10. And that's with Bourn missing a few weeks, Chisenhall not hitting, Myers out, and Pestano missing a couple of weeks. If it's not broke, don't fix it.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat May 18, 2013 11:13 pm

I think to remain in contention they will need to add another arm. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't rule out the Tribe trying to pickup a starter come July if they remain in the hunt for the AL Central, which could help push them into the playoffs. Myers could come back and pitch effectively, but I think they'd still consider an upgrade, especially if the guy was controllable for more than 1 yr. Reality is the Tribe has to look big picture, not just short term. Jimenez, Myers, and Kazmir are FA at the end of the season and the club holds 1 more yr of control on Masterson beyond this season.

Btw, I'm not sold on Ubaldo...he pitched well during June of last yr and then the wheels came off. Yes, he's been good recently but I have little trust he can keep it together for an extended period. If I'm wrong and I hope I am, I will gladly admit it.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun May 19, 2013 7:10 am

Yes, Jimenez, Myers, and Kazmir will be free agents, which is nearly $14 million in salary coming off the books. Add to that Mark Reynolds $6 million and it adds up to about $20 million.

It will be interesting to see who the Indians target. Even with $20 million to spend they won't be able to sign all those guys if they continue playing well.

I think it's safe to say Bauer and Carrasco will be joining the rotation next year, which will be Masterson, McAllister, Carrasco, Bauer, and either Kluber, Josh Tomlin, Danny Salazar, or a free agent (Kazmir?).

Reynolds should be the primary target, IMO. They got nobody in the system who can replace his bat, whereas there are replacements for Myers, Kazmir, and Ubaldo. With $20 million coming off the books and a nice bump in attendance if the Tribe stays in contention this year, they should be able to afford both Reynolds and Kazmir.

Chris Perez is making $7.3 million this year, so he may be traded to free up salary for higher priorities. With all the quality bullpen arms in the system it makes sense to move him after this season. He becomes a free agent in 2015.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun May 19, 2013 1:17 pm

I completely agree Perez is a trade chip...potentially this summer, in the right deal BUT only if it adds SP long term. I think the combo of Shaw, Allen and Pestano will be the future back end of the bullpen.

Beyond this yr I think Reynolds should be resigned, he seems comfortable at the plate and in the field. Simply put, he adds RH thump to this lineup and should produce 60-70 XBH. As for Scott Kazmir I think he will be a guy they play it buy ear with...try to resign for 2 yrs at a reasonable price. He has a long road ahead, showing the ability to maintain consistency and log innings after being out of the bigs for a extended period.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby skydancing8 » Mon May 20, 2013 4:55 am

Prosecutor wrote:Yes, Jimenez, Myers, and Kazmir will be free agents, which is nearly $14 million in salary coming off the books. Add to that Mark Reynolds $6 million and it adds up to about $20 million.

It will be interesting to see who the Indians target. Even with $20 million to spend they won't be able to sign all those guys if they continue playing well.

I think it's safe to say Bauer and Carrasco will be joining the rotation next year, which will be Masterson, McAllister, Carrasco, Bauer, and either Kluber, Josh Tomlin, Danny Salazar, or a free agent (Kazmir?).

Reynolds should be the primary target, IMO. They got nobody in the system who can replace his bat, whereas there are replacements for Myers, Kazmir, and Ubaldo. With $20 million coming off the books and a nice bump in attendance if the Tribe stays in contention this year, they should be able to afford both Reynolds and Kazmir.

Chris Perez is making $7.3 million this year, so he may be traded to free up salary for higher priorities. With all the quality bullpen arms in the system it makes sense to move him after this season. He becomes a free agent in 2015.


Joe Smith, Rich Hill and Matt Albers also come off the books after this year. Another 6mil to spend somewhere.

It is noteworthy though that Swisher, Bourn, Santana and Cabrera will see a combined increase of 17mil (19mil if they pickup Ubaldo's mutual option)

They will save 5mil on the Choo and Hafner buyouts being gone in 2014. I still can't see the payroll climbing much higher than 90mil though even with added TV revenue and any attendance bumps.

http://www.indiansbaseballinsider.com/payroll
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 20, 2013 7:40 am

BTW.. there was a game yesterday?.anybody actually have a comment?

-The M's are a fundamentally poor team... They gave away at least two runs, possibly three with just poor fundamentals. All of Eric Wedge's talk about playing the game the right way appears to be just that.. talk..

-Michael Brantley... in the three hole against right handed pitchers.. pretty impressive, indeed. He just stays on the ball.. has the patience of Job, and can crush it when he gets his pitch.. This was a more than just a single game & interesting lineup change by Tito..

-Michael Bourn...can flat out go.. go down the line on any ball put in play and go get em when they're hit in the air. The Indians outfield is so fast, it's hard to believe a fly ball will ever get a grass stain on it..

-Crowd..was a bit disappointing for the quality of the match up and the weather.. It was announced at under 20K.. but seemed like more.. That breeze felt nice while sitting in the sun... And now the Indians go for a sweep of the M's before the arrival of the Motor City Kitties for a two game set.. The M's starting pitcher, Hisashi Iwakuma, is as good as any in MLB..it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Indians and M's got together for a trade with this guy involved.. Iwakuma may be the best kept secret in the entire AL.. At any rate, it should be a good game....
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Mon May 20, 2013 4:08 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:BTW.. there was a game yesterday?.anybody actually have a comment?

-The M's are a fundamentally poor team... They gave away at least two runs, possibly three with just poor fundamentals. All of Eric Wedge's talk about playing the game the right way appears to be just that.. talk..

-Michael Brantley... in the three hole against right handed pitchers.. pretty impressive, indeed. He just stays on the ball.. has the patience of Job, and can crush it when he gets his pitch.. This was a more than just a single game & interesting lineup change by Tito..

-Michael Bourn...can flat out go.. go down the line on any ball put in play and go get em when they're hit in the air. The Indians outfield is so fast, it's hard to believe a fly ball will ever get a grass stain on it..

-Crowd..was a bit disappointing for the quality of the match up and the weather.. It was announced at under 20K.. but seemed like more.. That breeze felt nice while sitting in the sun... And now the Indians go for a sweep of the M's before the arrival of the Motor City Kitties for a two game set.. The M's starting pitcher, Hisashi Iwakuma, is as good as any in MLB..it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Indians and M's got together for a trade with this guy involved.. Iwakuma may be the best kept secret in the entire AL.. At any rate, it should be a good game....


Todays game was terrible...and oh so beautiful at the same time. Good call on the Mariners fundamentals.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Mon May 20, 2013 4:56 pm

So is official now? Gomes is now the back up catcher? He should be and besides I think Marson would benefit (career-wise) to play everyday even in Cbus. Go tribe - what a line up and what a win!
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon May 20, 2013 9:09 pm

I'd think Marson is quickly becoming trade bait. Maybe the Tribe could get an A ball pitcher or some of a teams international FA spending pool.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 20, 2013 11:38 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:I'd think Marson is quickly becoming trade bait. Maybe the Tribe could get an A ball pitcher or some of a teams international FA spending pool.


Chris Stewart took a bat off the side of his head/catching gear& fell over like a wet bag of cement... After a few moments, he seemed okay, but, the Yankees are desperately thin at the ML level for catching. Any hiccup and the Yankees will have Brett Gardner catching. If the Yankees are willing to cough up a 21 / 22 year old pitching prospect for Lou Marson, the Indians have to listen.. The target to watch with the Yankees could be the other half of the Jesus Montero deal, Jose Campos who is coming off some elbow irritation issues but appears to be fully healthy or someone like Raffy De Paula, a true diamond in the rough.. Hello Mr Cashman???..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 20, 2013 11:43 pm

Regarding today's thrilling game.. well.. how would you put this result...

It's better to be lucky than good, sometimes..

Period, end of story..

Worst question asked by the local media following the game at the Tito Presser: ".. now that Chris Perez has blown two saves in a row, are you concerned?.." (with the obvious indication about wanting the skipper to discuss a change).. Tito took the high road and said in not so many words "..shit happens.." and moved on.. Here's a fan that would have loved to see an absolute ass ripping of this reporter for stirring the pot when a good player has an off day..sheesh..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby danh8 » Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Regarding today's thrilling game.. well.. how would you put this result...

It's better to be lucky than good, sometimes..

Period, end of story..

Worst question asked by the local media following the game at the Tito Presser: ".. now that Chris Perez has blown two saves in a row, are you concerned?.." (with the obvious indication about wanting the skipper to discuss a change).. Tito took the high road and said in not so many words "..shit happens.." and moved on.. Here's a fan that would have loved to see an absolute ass ripping of this reporter for stirring the pot when a good player has an off day..sheesh..


Unfortunately, the job of closer comes with it, the inevitable angst that comes from the fanbase, and thus, the press corp whenever he happens to blow a save opportunity. Ya know, once a guy gets the closer job he's supposed to be automatic when it comes to converting every save opportunity that he has..

I liken it to a kicker in the NFL ...they have to be perfect, when they aren't ..they will take the wrath of everyone when they fail to convert, and a game is lost. In Chris Perez, we have a solid closer. He's not the best, he's far from the worst. But, closers require a thick skin, and a short memory when it comes to them having a bad outing. Perez has gone through some of the growing pains that come with the job, and has hopefully lived and learned in not letting fans and media reactions effect him. It goes with that huge responsibility the job entails, and it's why he makes more than anyone else in the pen. All those that clamor for Pestano to assume that role will learn quickly, if he does assume that role at some point in the future, that the success rate of a setup man, compared to that of a closer is much much much harder to achieve.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 21, 2013 8:15 am

danh8 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Regarding today's thrilling game.. well.. how would you put this result...

It's better to be lucky than good, sometimes..

Period, end of story..

Worst question asked by the local media following the game at the Tito Presser: ".. now that Chris Perez has blown two saves in a row, are you concerned?.." (with the obvious indication about wanting the skipper to discuss a change).. Tito took the high road and said in not so many words "..shit happens.." and moved on.. Here's a fan that would have loved to see an absolute ass ripping of this reporter for stirring the pot when a good player has an off day..sheesh..


Unfortunately, the job of closer comes with it, the inevitable angst that comes from the fanbase, and thus, the press corp whenever he happens to blow a save opportunity. Ya know, once a guy gets the closer job he's supposed to be automatic when it comes to converting every save opportunity that he has..

I liken it to a kicker in the NFL ...they have to be perfect, when they aren't ..they will take the wrath of everyone when they fail to convert, and a game is lost. In Chris Perez, we have a solid closer. He's not the best, he's far from the worst. But, closers require a thick skin, and a short memory when it comes to them having a bad outing. Perez has gone through some of the growing pains that come with the job, and has hopefully lived and learned in not letting fans and media reactions effect him. It goes with that huge responsibility the job entails, and it's why he makes more than anyone else in the pen. All those that clamor for Pestano to assume that role will learn quickly, if he does assume that role at some point in the future, that the success rate of a setup man, compared to that of a closer is much much much harder to achieve.


The concern wasn't with the performance.. sometimes the hitters are going to get CP... most times not.. That's part of the job as a ML closer..

The concern was with the question and questioner.. The Indians had just completed a four game sweep with three walk off wins and a route of former Cy Young winner.. and the shit-stirrers wanted to talk about the "save fail" The look on Tito's face was clear.. This idiot who wanted to change the subject from the huge game Yan-Yan the Hittin Man had.. to "..do you think it's time to consider yanking CP from the closer's role.." If it isn't clear then you haven't been around Cleveland sports for a long time..This idiot is holding a grudge.. BTW, that 'journalist' is one of the idiots that CP has muzzled with his Twitter postings from last season...
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue May 21, 2013 9:12 am

Perez is the closer until he leaves via trade or FA. He's working through some shoulder soreness and it's flat ridiculous for anyone to suggest removing him. IF Perez needs to be moved from the closers role than Justin Verlander should be demoted to the Tigres bullpen. I'd get this... if Perez had blown 10 saves, he hasn't and won't I'm confident in that.

Maybe the person trying to stir this garbage should lose their job. Sometimes you just have to call things for what they are...

On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby BrianM » Tue May 21, 2013 11:09 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


Gomes also plays 3B and OF. I don't really want to carry a third catcher in Marson, and If Gomes is not the guy who gets sent out when he comes back, I don't know who would be, but it is conceivable that we carry all three on the roster.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue May 21, 2013 12:19 pm

BrianM wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


Gomes also plays 3B and OF. I don't really want to carry a third catcher in Marson, and If Gomes is not the guy who gets sent out when he comes back, I don't know who would be, but it is conceivable that we carry all three on the roster.


Marson has an option left and it will be used. He'll remain in Columbus. Problem solved.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 pm

BrianM wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


Gomes also plays 3B and OF. I don't really want to carry a third catcher in Marson, and If Gomes is not the guy who gets sent out when he comes back, I don't know who would be, but it is conceivable that we carry all three on the roster.


TBH.. I think you might see the three guys who can catch on the roster.. Yan Gomes could eventually become the starter (perhaps not until next season) while Lou Marson will serve as one of two backups. Carlos Santana has the versatility to play C/1B/DH, so he should get plenty of AB's... This lineup is so fluid and versatile, that Tito can put Santana at one of three spots, Aviles as one of five spots, Rayburn at one of four spots, etc etc.. the mix and match and rest and keeping guys fresh work so well for this club.. Spreading out the at bats.. appears to be a luxury for Tito. As of this point in the season.. the Indians have a dozen or so guys getting regular at bats..That's unheard of at the ML level..
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue May 21, 2013 1:38 pm

I think Marson gets optioned to AAA. He could become a trade chip later and is ultimately gone after this season. They won't pay him $1M+ to be the third C.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Tue May 21, 2013 2:14 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
BrianM wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


Gomes also plays 3B and OF. I don't really want to carry a third catcher in Marson, and If Gomes is not the guy who gets sent out when he comes back, I don't know who would be, but it is conceivable that we carry all three on the roster.


Marson has an option left and it will be used. He'll remain in Columbus. Problem solved.



Agreed. It is not a bad thing at all for Marson. Here is a chance to play everyday after a couple of years of sporadic play at the ML level. If he is able to prove he can hit (again) though low someone will inquire. There are several teams where he would be be the ML back-up right now and where performance could gain him regular playing time. At the very least he could be another teams "Gomes" and pry away the back up catcher duties
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed May 22, 2013 4:44 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Perez is the closer until he leaves via trade or FA. He's working through some shoulder soreness and it's flat ridiculous for anyone to suggest removing him. IF Perez needs to be moved from the closers role than Justin Verlander should be demoted to the Tigres bullpen. I'd get this... if Perez had blown 10 saves, he hasn't and won't I'm confident in that.


I'm an advocate for keeping Perez around, for the most part. I'd trade him if you got just an amazing offer for the guy, but I don't think the Indians are getting that, and I'm okay with him being the closer. I like having Smith and Pestano able to be summoned into tough situations in the 6th/7th/8th if need be, and to be honest they both have problems with splits that Perez doesn't (career wOBA against is identical for Perez), which makes Perez better used in a non-matchup type of situation, which is what closing is.

homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


The Indians are still carrying 8 bullpen guys for whatever reason. I can see them sending down Shaw or Allen for a position player. Though why that would be Marson would be beyond me. I'm also still baffled as to why Giambi seems to be getting a lot of playing time now, and occasionally bats high in the lineup. He's been bad, and that's not unexpected. I honestly would rather have Raburn DHing than Giambi at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing Phelps stay up after Swisher comes back.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed May 22, 2013 8:24 am

I think part of the 8 men in the pen is a response to the minor injuries to Pestano and Perez and double headers. At some point I think Matt Albers is the odd guy out, could be David Huff if they are tired of his act.
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Re: Official 2013 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:42 am

Edible14 wrote:

homerawayfromhome wrote:On to more pressing matters, what becomes of sweet Lou Marson. I like ol' Louie even though he has limitations offensively, but is sound (kinda) defensively. Gomes on the other has 4 hrs in 50+ AB in a quarter of a season. Marson has 4 career hrs in 850+ AB in four seasons.... Enough said, time to save money ($1 M) and MOVE on from Marson.


The Indians are still carrying 8 bullpen guys for whatever reason. I can see them sending down Shaw or Allen for a position player. Though why that would be Marson would be beyond me. I'm also still baffled as to why Giambi seems to be getting a lot of playing time now, and occasionally bats high in the lineup. He's been bad, and that's not unexpected. I honestly would rather have Raburn DHing than Giambi at this point. I wouldn't mind seeing Phelps stay up after Swisher comes back.


Me thinks a hot hitting Phelps puts Giambi on the hot seat. And if you carry Marson - Gomes has to be a "better" option than Giambi. But as long the team keeps playing the way it is, Giambi's job seems relatively safe whether he plays or not. Only his lack of performance would bump him, but if things get loose like I said a hot bat could overtake him
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