ST Games Thread

by **A.Zajac** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:33 am

Hermie13 wrote:
SwisherBuck11 wrote:Bauer is off to a good start as well

the only diffrence between Bauers number and Kazmir is Kazmir has 1 more K but Bauer has a W, they have the exact same IP, hits allowed, BAA, WHIP and BBs

Agree, Bauer has been very good in the early going.

I still believe the plan behind the scenes is for him to open in Columbus though and spend 6 weeks or so down there, but if he keeps this up he could really force his way onto the roster...

Agree with you Hermie. That seems to be the impression that I've gotten as well. Bauer has been impressive, but as long as Kazmir continues to pitch well, I think Bauer will start in AAA. IMO, if the starting staff stays relatively healthy and pitches decent, we MIGHT not see Bauer until July or August. Granted, things don't always go according to plan..

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 am

Hermie13 wrote:
SwisherBuck11 wrote:Bauer is off to a good start as well

the only diffrence between Bauers number and Kazmir is Kazmir has 1 more K but Bauer has a W, they have the exact same IP, hits allowed, BAA, WHIP and BBs

Agree, Bauer has been very good in the early going.

I still believe the plan behind the scenes is for him to open in Columbus though and spend 6 weeks or so down there, but if he keeps this up he could really force his way onto the roster...

yeah i thought all along unless Dice-K/Kazmir/Carrasco had no chance of taking the 5 spot then Bauer would spend 2 months or so just to extend his contract if nothing else unless he dominated and forced himself into a roster spot, but Kazmir has looked as advertised so far

by **Edible14** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:39 am

I've heard good things about Bauer, Kazmir and Hill. What's the word on Capps? The stats don't look good, but it's only 2 IP, so it's hard to really put stock into that.

Personally, I think Hill, Raburn and Kazmir are good fits for the opening day roster. Capps would be nice if we can add him, he returns close to form and we can flip him at the deadline for something more useful down the road, but I wonder why he's here mostly. Seems like there has to have been a better opportunity for him elsewhere.

I keep coming back to the decision to bring back Ubaldo, which I was against. It seems to me it was a mistake to bring back Ubaldo Jimenez and guarantee him a roster spot. We could have Kyle Lohse in that spot right now.

by **GoTribe028** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:08 am

Edible14 wrote:I've heard good things about Bauer, Kazmir and Hill. What's the word on Capps? The stats don't look good, but it's only 2 IP, so it's hard to really put stock into that.

Personally, I think Hill, Raburn and Kazmir are good fits for the opening day roster. Capps would be nice if we can add him, he returns close to form and we can flip him at the deadline for something more useful down the road, but I wonder why he's here mostly. Seems like there has to have been a better opportunity for him elsewhere.

I keep coming back to the decision to bring back Ubaldo, which I was against. It seems to me it was a mistake to bring back Ubaldo Jimenez and guarantee him a roster spot. We could have Kyle Lohse in that spot right now.

During yesterdays game Jim Rosenhaus mentioned that Capps had a few conversations with Carl Pavano during the offseason and that Pavano gave really good reviews about the Indians medical staff.

As far as Lohse goes, sure it would be nice to add him to the rotation (and until he signs somewhere else, it's always "there") but there was no way of knowing that Lohse would still be available at this point in the offseason. I was against bringing Ubaldo Jimenez back as well, but Lohse wasn't part of that decision. We could claim the same reasons to not sign Brett Myers, who personally, I have more confidence in than I do Ubaldo.

by **Hermie13** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:45 pm

Edible14 wrote:I've heard good things about Bauer, Kazmir and Hill. What's the word on Capps? The stats don't look good, but it's only 2 IP, so it's hard to really put stock into that.

Personally, I think Hill, Raburn and Kazmir are good fits for the opening day roster. Capps would be nice if we can add him, he returns close to form and we can flip him at the deadline for something more useful down the road, but I wonder why he's here mostly. Seems like there has to have been a better opportunity for him elsewhere.

I keep coming back to the decision to bring back Ubaldo, which I was against. It seems to me it was a mistake to bring back Ubaldo Jimenez and guarantee him a roster spot. We could have Kyle Lohse in that spot right now.

Declining Ubaldo's option would have only saved us $4.75M this year. Maybe if you really backload a deal again you could get Lohse for that, but at some point you gotta consider future payrolls when handing out money. Ubaldo really struggled but isn't really costing us that much. As long as he is healthy you could easily move him. May not get much back but he does eat innings.

Consider that the Pirates originally gave Liriano 2yr/$14M before the injury issue came up. Lirano had a 5.36 ERA last year...Ubaldo a 5.40 ERA. Liriano threw 156.2 innings...Ubaldo thew 176.2 innings. Ubaldo has twice topped 200 innings and thrown at least 175 innings in each of the past 5 seasons. Liriano has never thrown 200 innings and only once even topped 160 innings (2010). Yeah the Pirates have restructured the deal to only guarantee $1M; however, he can get an additional $3.75M in bonuses if he doesn't spend time on the DL due to the hand injury on his non-throwing hand....which comes to $4.75M (or what Ubaldo cost us).

Others to consider looking at are Scott Feldman. He got $6M guaranteed from the Cubs. Has posted an ERA over 5 in two of the past three seasons and in 2011 when he was under 5 he only threw 32 innings. Hasn't topped 150 innings in the bigs in any of the past 3 seasons either. Mike Pelfrey is another guy who got $4M guaranteed plus over a million in bonus potential. Numbers in 2011 were no better than Ubaldo and missed nearly all of 2012. Who knows how many innings he can even give you this year, not to mention he's moving to the AL.

And hell, Fausto Carmona got $3.25M guaranteed from the RAYS of all teams (plus nearly $2M in incentives).

Assuming Ubaldo is healthy, and haven't seen/heard anything suggesting otherwise, then the money he makes is not outrageous and very easily movable IMO.

I'm not trying to talk up Ubaldo as a guy I love, as he was terrible last year, but I do think it was the right move (and the only move ever considered) to pick up his option. Definitely sucks that he is really only a back of the rotation inning eater now though. But sadly guys like that still get paid well and are tradeable assets.

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:49 pm

Jimenez with the start vs Seattle today

threw 2 shutout innings in his last apperance

by **GeronimoSon** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:09 pm

In the early going of Spring Training..several Indians starting pitchers have done NOTHING to distinguish themselves as viable candidates for the starting rotation.. Specifically, Masterson, Kluber, McAllister and Carrasco.. Of these four, two are considered dead sure locks for rotation spots.. There shouldn't & isn't too much concern, yet.. These four guys find themselves in the very early stages of the spring and should begin to show their real ability in the next three weeks.. It is encouraging to see Trevor Bauer, Brett Myers, Scott Kazmir and Ubaldo Jimenez pitching well, so far.. <shrugs>

On the offensive side of the ball, both Cord Phelps and Mark Reynolds are showing significant improvement w/r to contact ability and plate discipline.. Ryan Raburn is hanging Spring Training MVP Type Numbers (as predicted).. and no one seemed able to get Michael Brantley out before his injury.. The "extra outfielder" battle appears to be joined in the early going. Ben Francisco has grabbed the bull by the horns as he's off to a fast start. Matt Carson is showing he has some thump in his lumber. Both Ezequiel Carrera and Tim Fedroff have to pick it up soon if they intend to make some noise regarding the 25 man roster. The surprise of the camp has to be Mike McDade or Jesus Aguilar. While McDade's only been in the back end of games where the pitching might be suspect, he's just hammering the ball all over the parks. As a switch hitter, he could be considered a viable candidate for one of the last bench spots. But, because he's almost allergic to leather, his defensive versatility doesn't suit the role. Aguilar is in the same spot. It would be a huge surprise to see one of them on the roster when the Indians and Jays open in the Roger's Center..but stranger things have been known to happen.. There is a lot of Spring Training yet to come...

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:31 pm

actually both Masterson and McCallister threw 3 shutout innings in their 1st starts, they both had a bad 2nd outing though

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:50 pm

Jiminez 4 shutout innings so far this spring

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:09 pm

1 inning too many for Ubaldo

so far in the 3rd 2 Runs allowed, Bases loaded 0 Out for SD

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:30 pm

tagged with 5 Runs but only gave up 2 of them himself

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:49 pm

Kluber vs Beckett today
Franchona apparentley rides around camp on an electric scooter

by **GeronimoSon** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:16 pm

beckett needed four pitches to set the Indians down in the top of the first?.. wow..

by **SwisherBuck11** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:32 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:beckett needed four pitches to set the Indians down in the top of the first?.. wow..

Bourn
Carerra
Giambi

i would hope he would need only 4 pitches, Bourns been a 1-2 pitch guy all spring and the other 2 are what they are

by **BrianM** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:51 pm

Indians.com mentions there will be a live webcast of todays game (3/4) on the website today. IDK if it is a free webcast or if you need mlb tv. Anbody have info on this?

by **GeronimoSon** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:41 pm

BrianM wrote:Indians.com mentions there will be a live webcast of todays game (3/4) on the website today. IDK if it is a free webcast or if you need mlb tv. Anbody have info on this?

It's not free.. you have to buy MLB Game Day Audio for like $ 20 a year and you can listen to the games on line.. it's inexpensive from a dollars and sense perspective..

by **GeronimoSon** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:29 pm

Through the top of the fourth.. the Indians are wearin out their hitting shoes.. the bottom of the lineup is pretty weak with Hermida Santos and Lindor...

by **SwisherBuck11** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:37 pm

Stubbs with a nice rbi 3 Bagger. Carrasco had a bit better of a start but it is the cubs line up in ST

by **BrianM** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:46 pm

Its only spring, but it is nice to see Chiz and Reynolds starting out hot like this. Theyre both raking early.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:52 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
BrianM wrote:Indians.com mentions there will be a live webcast of todays game (3/4) on the website today. IDK if it is a free webcast or if you need mlb tv. Anbody have info on this?

It's not free.. you have to buy MLB Game Day Audio for like $ 20 a year and you can listen to the games on line.. it's inexpensive from a dollars and sense perspective..

I'd recommend AtBat for your mobile device. Same price as far as listening to games, several free Indians games a mth televised and if your pretty busy condensed games are a nice option.

by **A.Zajac** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Kazmir's line today: 3 IP, 0 R, 3 H, 1 BB, 5 K, 54 pitches (36 strikes). "Kazmir was consistently around 89-92 with fastball. Topped at 93 mph."

by **TheWord** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:08 pm

Mickey Callaway noted that he had pretty good depth on his slider, which is more crucial to his long-term viability than his velocity IMO.

Given the shear uncertainty at all four other rotation spots, getting meaningful innings out of this guy would be enormous.

by **BrianM** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:28 pm

TheWord wrote:Mickey Callaway noted that he had pretty good depth on his slider, which is more crucial to his long-term viability than his velocity IMO.

Given the shear uncertainty at all four other rotation spots, getting meaningful innings out of this guy would be enormous.

I like that you said meaningful innings. If Kazmir even makes the team it would be great, but if he could actually give us a little production too, our depth wont look nearly as shaky with Bauer and Carrasco waiting in AAA. We may have question marks, but if Kazmir can produce, it gives us an extra backup plan.

by **GeronimoSon** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:51 pm

A nothing nothing tie in today's game.. you don't see that very often..not even in spring training... :surprised

by **homerawayfromhome** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:07 pm

Did Daisuke leave with an injury?

by **TheWord** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:36 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Did Daisuke leave with an injury?

Yep, walked off during warmups with the trainer and his interpreter.

Kazmir is pretty much the guy at this point.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:38 am

Agreed Kazmir seems to have locked up the fifth spot. That will allow Bauer to polish up and Carrasco to return to health.

No surprise on Hill, timing maybe...but he pitched well last yr and all spring. Looks like a solid snag, right now.

by **GoTribe028** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:14 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Agreed Kazmir seems to have locked up the fifth spot. That will allow Bauer to polish up and Carrasco to return to health.

No surprise on Hill, timing maybe...but he pitched well last yr and all spring. Looks like a solid snag, right now.

Think Hill will prove to be as important as Kazmir in their roles if they're healthy. Kaz obviously pushes back Bauer and CC but Hill presents us with a sorely needed lefty. Raffy Left and Sipp both with other clubs, the options of Barnes and Hagadone both have promise but not much else to go on.

by **Hermie13** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:26 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
homerawayfromhome wrote:Agreed Kazmir seems to have locked up the fifth spot. That will allow Bauer to polish up and Carrasco to return to health.

No surprise on Hill, timing maybe...but he pitched well last yr and all spring. Looks like a solid snag, right now.

Think Hill will prove to be as important as Kazmir in their roles if they're healthy. Kaz obviously pushes back Bauer and CC but Hill presents us with a sorely needed lefty. Raffy Left and Sipp both with other clubs, the options of Barnes and Hagadone both have promise but not much else to go on.

Still 3 weeks left so while I agree Kazmir seems to have the 5th spot in hand think its still a bit early to give him the job. After St. Patty's Day if he still looks good I'd consider giving him the job.

Agree on Hill. The bullpen was only a half strength last year. 8th and 9th innings were locked down with Pestano and Perez but no good lefty really hurt us (Sipp was terrible). I like Hags and Barnes a lot but definitely would be nice to have another option.

by **Chip Davis** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:11 pm

The idea of a starting rotation in Columbus of Bauer, Carrasco, Barnes, Kluber, and Salazar is quite intriuging. This system is in far better shape then this point last year. If Myers can pitch well then he does create value, but the same can be said for Ubaldo. I think if he pitches well the 1st half, they will unload him as soon as possible in fear of him reverting back to the bad U. There were rumors of the Padres having interest and maybe they are just waiting to see. There are scenarios that can happen that don't hurt the team and add valuable young talent. I haven't been this excited about a season in quite awhile and it's fun.

Looking at the pitching in the minors, descent seasons from a couple of Sisco, Brown, Howard, Araujo, Soto, and Aviles could change the landscape dramatically. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 2 of these guys can turn out to be atleast #2's, although Soto doesn't strike me as having that much potential.

by **MadThinker88** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:43 pm

Chip Davis wrote:The idea of a starting rotation in Columbus of Bauer, Carrasco, Barnes, Kluber, and Salazar is quite intriuging. This system is in far better shape then this point last year. If Myers can pitch well then he does create value, but the same can be said for Ubaldo. I think if he pitches well the 1st half, they will unload him as soon as possible in fear of him reverting back to the bad U. There were rumors of the Padres having interest and maybe they are just waiting to see. There are scenarios that can happen that don't hurt the team and add valuable young talent. I haven't been this excited about a season in quite awhile and it's fun.

Looking at the pitching in the minors, descent seasons from a couple of Sisco, Brown, Howard, Araujo, Soto, and Aviles could change the landscape dramatically. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 2 of these guys can turn out to be atleast #2's, although Soto doesn't strike me as having that much potential.

For the record I would prefer Barnes starting this season in AAA. However I think Tony reported Barnes will be in the Cbus bullpen. If the tribe waned a lefty in the Cbus rotation, it might by G Soto....

by **Chip Davis** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:54 pm

That may be the case, but it's my opinion that Soto is more suited for the pen than Barnes. I get really tired of this system's willingness to quickly relegate someone like Barnes or Adams to the bullpen. It makes no sense to deliberately devalue a guy like that. It's not like there is a shortage of pen arms in the system. Why don't they just make every pitcher in the system a reliever and go with a 13 man rotation where nobody throws more than 2 innings.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Chip Davis wrote:That may be the case, but it's my opinion that Soto is more suited for the pen than Barnes. I get really tired of this system's willingness to quickly relegate someone like Barnes or Adams to the bullpen. It makes no sense to deliberately devalue a guy like that. It's not like there is a shortage of pen arms in the system. Why don't they just make every pitcher in the system a reliever and go with a 13 man rotation where nobody throws more than 2 innings.

Agreed, I think Barnes is stuck at least this yr in the pen. He could be stretched back out as a starter but the longer he remains in the pen the more likely he is to remain there, IMHO.

by **Chip Davis** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:52 pm

Homer, I feel the same. Barnes will be an effective reliever and they will likely leave him there. Me personally, I feel nothing is more valuable than quality starting pitching. If you have that(or what appears to be that) you not only increase your odds of fielding 5 quality starters, you build value in your minor league system. Even if that value is percieved it gives you leverage to make trades. The league as a whole doesn't value relief prospects so why openly and deliberately devalue one of your own prospects. This is how I see it and I realize that doesn't make it fact. I also realize guys without a quality 3rd pitch are destined for the pen. However Barnes, Adams, Haley, and a handful of others don't fit that description even though their control isn't where it needs to be.

by **Chip Davis** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:54 pm

While we're talking about minor league pitching, does anyone know how Alexander Perez is looking. I looked for him to come back strong after his surgery, but haven't heard or seen anything on him.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:32 pm

He was released last yr at the end of spring if I recall correctly, haven't heard from him since.

by **BrianM** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:03 pm

Chip Davis wrote:That may be the case, but it's my opinion that Soto is more suited for the pen than Barnes. I get really tired of this system's willingness to quickly relegate someone like Barnes or Adams to the bullpen. It makes no sense to deliberately devalue a guy like that. It's not like there is a shortage of pen arms in the system. Why don't they just make every pitcher in the system a reliever and go with a 13 man rotation where nobody throws more than 2 innings.

+2

I understand why it was done with Haley, but I really hope they throw him back in the rotation again.

by **danh8** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:06 pm

Do0n't look now, but ...Ubaldo had himself another solid outing again today.. Our new pitching coach appears to be continuing to make headway in unraveling and putting back together this kids mechanics. Another five innings today, with zero ..nada ...no walks. I don't believe we ever have seen a Ubaldo Jiminez pitching for us that ever accomplished that feat.

I'm not going to start saving for Wold Series tickets yet, but I can say I'm very encouraged with what our new pitching coach has been accomplishing to date.

by **MadThinker88** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:59 pm

danh8 wrote:Do0n't look now, but ...Ubaldo had himself another solid outing again today.. Our new pitching coach appears to be continuing to make headway in unraveling and putting back together this kids mechanics. Another five innings today, with zero ..nada ...no walks. I don't believe we ever have seen a Ubaldo Jiminez pitching for us that ever accomplished that feat.

I'm not going to start saving for Wold Series tickets yet, but I can say I'm very encouraged with what our new pitching coach has been accomplishing to date.

It's a step in the correct direction, no doubt. I just want to see it happen again or get to a point where it takes Ubaldo 3 or 4 starts to tally a total of 5 walks...

by **Prosecutor** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:33 am

He said he was throwing mostly fastballs because he will pitch against the White Sox in the regular season and he didn't want to show them too much. So the fact that he had a strong outing without even mixing his pitches is even more encouraging.

The Tribe has been kicking butt without Santana, Asdrubal, and Chris Perez. Other than Perez's injury everything is looking good so far. Chiz is raking, Hagadone has been dominating, Kazmir is looking like a legitimate starter again, Hill won a spot in the pen, and we've got real competition between young, talented players for the last couple of BP spots. Ubaldo looks like he'll be an improved pitcher this year. Myers should be an upgrade over Lowe.

If we need another starter the waiting list starts with Bauer and Carrasco. Not bad at all.

I can't wait to see an Indians player go from first to third on a single to center or score from first on a double to the left field gap. It's been a long time since we've had any speed on this team other than in one or two spots.

by **homerawayfromhome** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:05 pm

Prosecutor wrote:He said he was throwing mostly fastballs because he will pitch against the White Sox in the regular season and he didn't want to show them too much. So the fact that he had a strong outing without even mixing his pitches is even more encouraging.

The Tribe has been kicking butt without Santana, Asdrubal, and Chris Perez. Other than Perez's injury everything is looking good so far. Chiz is raking, Hagadone has been dominating, Kazmir is looking like a legitimate starter again, Hill won a spot in the pen, and we've got real competition between young, talented players for the last couple of BP spots. Ubaldo looks like he'll be an improved pitcher this year. Myers should be an upgrade over Lowe.

If we need another starter the waiting list starts with Bauer and Carrasco. Not bad at all.

I can't wait to see an Indians player go from first to third on a single to center or score from first on a double to the left field gap. It's been a long time since we've had any speed on this team other than in one or two spots.

A lot good going on for sure.

After last yr it's a night and day difference in this club and that club from late last yr.

by **GeronimoSon** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:10 pm

Three run rally by the Dbax.. consisted of a seeing eye grounder between short and third.. a ball lost in the sun.. a ball hit right at Brantley who froze and a dying quayle/off the end of the bat/ Texas Leaguer that dropped behind the infield into short LF .. This is not a rally.. it's a slow bleed..

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