The Bourn Identity

[GhostofTedCox]

(Sorry, couldn't resist the name for the thread)

Rambling thoughts on the implications.

Michael Bourn changes everything. His career WAR is 19. I said earlier that it was like having Sizemore reincarnated. But actually it's more like Lofton. Great CF, great speed on the bases, good leadoff hitter.

I like an OF Brantley, Bourn, and Stubbs. Any flyball with a hang time of 3+ seconds will be an out.
The ripple effect and flexibility of the lineup now are outstanding.

Could Bourn and Stubbs steal 100 bases combined? Kipnis should be prepared to take some pitches.

[GoTribe028]

I'm kinda digging the hashtag thats going on The Twitter now

#TheBournAcquisition

Make me legit lol

[homerawayfromhome]

(Sorry, couldn't resist the name for the thread)

Rambling thoughts on the implications.

Michael Bourn changes everything. His career WAR is 19. I said earlier that it was like having Sizemore reincarnated. But actually it's more like Lofton. Great CF, great speed on the bases, good leadoff hitter.

I like an OF Brantley, Bourn, and Stubbs. Any flyball with a hang time of 3+ seconds will be an out.
The ripple effect and flexibility of the lineup now are outstanding.

Could Bourn and Stubbs steal 100 bases combined? Kipnis should be prepared to take some pitches.

I'll answer the last question first, maybe I think Bourn could be counted on for 60 SB and Stubbs 30 SB even if he's the fourth OF / DH whatever role he plays I think it gives Stubbs a better opportunity to succeed.

[GoTribe028]

(Sorry, couldn't resist the name for the thread)

Rambling thoughts on the implications.

Michael Bourn changes everything. His career WAR is 19. I said earlier that it was like having Sizemore reincarnated. But actually it's more like Lofton. Great CF, great speed on the bases, good leadoff hitter.

I like an OF Brantley, Bourn, and Stubbs. Any flyball with a hang time of 3+ seconds will be an out.
The ripple effect and flexibility of the lineup now are outstanding.

Could Bourn and Stubbs steal 100 bases combined? Kipnis should be prepared to take some pitches.

I'll answer the last question first, maybe I think Bourn could be counted on for 60 SB and Stubbs 30 SB even if he's the fourth OF / DH whatever role he plays I think it gives Stubbs a better opportunity to succeed.

Woah...bud, 60 is kinda pushing it don't you think?

[homerawayfromhome]

(Sorry, couldn't resist the name for the thread)

Rambling thoughts on the implications.

Michael Bourn changes everything. His career WAR is 19. I said earlier that it was like having Sizemore reincarnated. But actually it's more like Lofton. Great CF, great speed on the bases, good leadoff hitter.

I like an OF Brantley, Bourn, and Stubbs. Any flyball with a hang time of 3+ seconds will be an out.
The ripple effect and flexibility of the lineup now are outstanding.

Could Bourn and Stubbs steal 100 bases combined? Kipnis should be prepared to take some pitches.

I'll answer the last question first, maybe I think Bourn could be counted on for 60 SB and Stubbs 30 SB even if he's the fourth OF / DH whatever role he plays I think it gives Stubbs a better opportunity to succeed.

Woah...bud, 60 is kinda pushing it don't you think?

Absolutely, that would be at best...If I were projecting him, Id say 50 sb. But he still has the speed to snag 60, IMO.

[A.Zajac]

The one thing that ticks me off about people like Keith Law is they don't see the bigger picture sometimes. (Tell this to Keith Law and he'll call you a moron or delusional) Not only does Bourn bring speed to this lineup and a legit leadoff hitter, but he's going to protect this lineup too. Think about this... If Kipnis bats behind Bourn, chances are.. he's going to see a lot more fastballs with Bourn on base, esp with the possibility of swiping a bag. So not only does Bourn benefit, but so does Kipnis/#2 hitter and so on.

[artgold]

I also like the way these signings and trade take the pressure off of Kipnis and Chisenhall to be key offensive contributors before they may be prepared to do so. Signings like this allow them to ease into the majors and not have the added pressure to "be the man".

I like the long term comittments, shows a whole new attitude by the front office ('bout time...).

[ironmike]

Congrats to Chris Antonetti and ownership. Getting IMPACT players is what it is all about. Now take a run at Kyle Lohse.

A note to my foe Geronimo, that's two players now the Indians have acquired Swisher and Bourne Iron Mike suggested here on the forum.

Keep trying.

[GeronimoSon]

Congrats to Chris Antonetti and ownership. Getting IMPACT players is what it is all about. Now take a run at Kyle Lohse.

A note to my foe Geronimo, that's two players now the Indians have acquired Swisher and Bourne Iron Mike suggested here on the forum.

Keep trying.

So when do the Indians sign McCutchen?.. score 850 runs?.. lol...

[ironmike]

These posts are dedicated to Hermie & Geronimo. I'll be retiring from this forum, my work is done. You nitwits can tangle with Ohio Baseball and he'll rip you both a new %^$ hole too. Tony finally saw the light and got off that prospect BS and changed the site to reflect the ML team. Prospects are just one part of the equation, you need all the components to make a team hit on all cylinders.

Geronimo, multiple past posts below to fan your arse with. That's right IMPACT players and 850 runs. Now they need to add pitching. Keep trying. You aren't even a good ankle biter.

Enjoy the reads (posts) and joke on them!

Pay close attention to the date marks on these posts.

ironmike » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:01 am

Why split hairs over minor league free agent contracts? When was the last time one made any impact? Maybe Marty Cordova in 2001.

Wanna win? Tito does. Sign impact players. This team needs to add to the pile. What they have done so far is good, but not enough. After 6-8 years of low payrolls they can afford to go over budget one year. Still need a solid starting pitcher and another offensive player with intangibles. Then if would be an interesting season. The Indians can still afford to make a major trade and improve the team dramatically.

Hoping we can land Jim Thome, but prefer a Michael Bourn type. Either way another professional hitter, no minor league rejects. Reynolds is a huge gamble, if he don't hit 35-40 home runs he's a liability. Ditto Stubbs if he can't hit .260 or better. Was encouraged to read Stubb has dropped his high leg kick which causes eye level movement in favor of the Paul Molitor toe tap. That little move could be significant. We shall see.

Hey Tony, a healthy Josh Tomlin coming off a 12-7 season sure would look good right now???

Tito didn't come here to play .500 baseball he wants to win ... now.

Regarding Scott Kazmir, not concerned about his the speed of his fastball. Does it have movement? He needs to be able to throw three pitches for strikes in any count and locate. Also, IF he can develop a better than average change up that might be his ticket to getting on a Jamie Moyer path to recovery and being able to compete and contribute in 2013.

by ironmike » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:22 am

Being the Indians are trying to replace an impact, All-Star player like Grady Sizemore and they are on record as saying they need to acquire ONE big bat here is a list of players who would fill the void. These players have demonstrated in their ML careers they can score 80 runs or more, have a good K-BB ratio, hit for power, drive in runs, have winning intangibles and have a good batting averages. Yes, they are premier players, but the kind needed for this team to take the next step and compete to win a World Championship.

Tier 1:

Nick Markakis, OF, Baltimore Orioles: great all around player.
Nick Swisher, OF, New York Yankees: great power and superior K-BB ratio, gritty, winning gamer type
Matt Holiday, OF, St. Louis Cardinals: same attributes as Swisher
Matt Kemp, OF, Los Angeles Dodgers: off the chart season in 2011
Andrew McCutcheon, OF, Pittsburgh Pirates: impact player in all phases of the game, he should be a top target
Corey Hart, OF, Milwaukee Brewers: Power hitter, falls off in other categories
Jay Bruce, OF, Cincinnati Reds: One of the games best power hitters

ironmike » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:11 am

There are teams interested in dealing for Nick Swisher, reports ESPN's Buster Olney. The Yankees "will listen on anyone" but they say they aren't shopping Swisher despite "a perception in some corners of the marketplace" that the outfielder is on the market.

Hoping the Indians are one of them. Swisher is an impact player.

ironmike » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:20 am

Never was off McCutcheon or Swisher or Markakis.

EVERY player is available. If McCutcheon does not have character issues or brewing character problems the Indians should do more than kick the tires. A true, young impact player that an entire championship team can be built around.

SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST

ironmike » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:26 am

Hermie, Swisher is tough and a gamer.

He brings a swagger and he'd make people on our team better.
A switch hitter with pop and a darn good outfielder.

Playoff experience the whole nine yards.

Look at his numbers the past 7 years, you'll notice his BB / K ratio
is one of the best in baseball.

He is a 2012 version of Toby Harrah

The Indians need to get this guy. It should be a priority.


PS Scott Boras has been saying all along the Indians could afford to have a $80 million payroll. He was correct.

[indians1]

While they haven't played 1 game yet, you have to like the potential here. I have been a critic of how this team evaluates/drafts/and develops talent.

that being said....

The key is still our young players. (i.e. kipnis, chisenhall, and santana). Those guys have to be good and they have to be there all year.

I like that the indians went out and spent money that didn't break the bank. They seemed to go with guys that fit what they are trying to do. This is a lineup that you don't just drop off once you get to the bottom of the lineup now.

these moves definitely help in the short term because going back to my criticism of this organization, they need to step it up in the draft room.

These moves buy us some time to draft some players over the next few years that can hopefully be ready to contribute as these guys reach the end of their contracts.

Making moves like they have made this offseason along with good drafting will ensure that we compete not just for one or 2 years but for many . (like we did in the 90's).

[7foot3]

Wait, Mike pointed out the Indians should look to acquire good players? Man, wish I had thought of that. I never thought that guys like Swisher and Bourn, or even Kemp and McCutchen, could help this team.

[A.Zajac]

Good riddance, ironmike. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We sure aren't going to miss you around here. It's easy to take credit for what you are. You suggested getting better players... imagine that theory. That takes a real genius to do.

Still waiting for your McCutchen deal to happen. Of which you don't even know how to spell his last name half the time.. and we're the dumb ones? Right...

[GeronimoSon]

These posts are dedicated to Hermie & Geronimo..... I'll be retiring from this forum, [what's left of my brain is fried] the Indians could afford to have a $80 million payroll. He was correct.

I have just one question regarding this posting: HOW COME HERMIE GETS TOP BILLING?

[Hermie13]

(Sorry, couldn't resist the name for the thread)

Rambling thoughts on the implications.

Michael Bourn changes everything. His career WAR is 19. I said earlier that it was like having Sizemore reincarnated. But actually it's more like Lofton. Great CF, great speed on the bases, good leadoff hitter.

I like an OF Brantley, Bourn, and Stubbs. Any flyball with a hang time of 3+ seconds will be an out.
The ripple effect and flexibility of the lineup now are outstanding.

Could Bourn and Stubbs steal 100 bases combined? Kipnis should be prepared to take some pitches.

Bourn is a bit like Lofton I guess in that he is fast and good defensively but he struggles getting his OBP to .350 whereas Lofton was at .400. HUGE difference.

Like the signing though. Bourn is a solid leadoff guy, far from great (like Lofton was) but as mentioned does make the lineup better. Allows Brantley to hit lower in the order with guys on base.

[Hermie13]

PS Scott Boras has been saying all along the Indians could afford to have a $80 million payroll. He was correct.

So did some guy that goes by Hermie on here back before the 2009 season when they did have a payroll over $80 as well.

Hopefully the outcome this year will be a better than it was that year....

[GhostofTedCox]

Bourn apparently had choices, but chose the Indians.

The Indians 3B coach is now Brad Mills. Mills was the Astros manager when Bourn was there.
I wonder if Francona had Mills do some recruiting on Bourn.

[homerawayfromhome]

How will the move to the AL affect Michael Bourn?

It seems like batting after a real hitter in the 9th spot could benefit Bourn. I've read advanced stats on Bourn somewhere recently, which showed he hit better the further in the game and with others on base in front of him, any see his advanced stats?

Here's my projection for Michael Bourn in 2013...
155 games .275 BA 30 dbls 8 triples 5 hrs 50 sb.

[GeronimoSon]

How will the move to the AL affect Michael Bourn?

It seems like batting after a real hitter in the 9th spot could benefit Bourn. I've read advanced stats on Bourn somewhere recently, which showed he hit better the further in the game and with others on base in front of him, any see his advanced stats?

Here's my projection for Michael Bourn in 2013...
155 games .275 BA 30 dbls 8 triples 5 hrs 50 sb.

Let's go a little further with Bourns projections.. He's never been a big power guy, so his OBP as a lead off hitter is critical to his success. Over the years, his OBP been consistently in the .345 - .370 range. (his slugging is typically 20 to 35 points higher). The rap he has is in his K-rate which stands around one K in every 4 1/2 AB's which isn't great, but, he also doesn't ground into many double plays, like two all of 2012. What doesn't show up in his "numbers" are the fifty or so extra bases he gets with his wheels. If they were to be added to his "slugging" as an SB is just another base.. just like a double is just another base above a single, then his slugging would be, on average, about 86 points higher, bringing his "G-Son Modified" triple slash line to something like .275/.350/.460. and that's pretty impressive. Thoughts?