MLB Hot Stove

[homerawayfromhome]

I was thinking maybe the Tribe could get another young arm like Soto. Soto could become a real bullpen option in the next yr or so. IMO, anytime they do one of these type trades (out of options / fringe MLer) they should look to acq. a talented young / raw prospect in return. I'd rather net that than some 27 yo SS who barely hits his weight and is now in his fourth org. after being picked top 100 almost 10 yrs ago.

Another route the Tribe could take is trage a guy like Gomez for future considerations, more specifically...a small portion ($25 K or so) of the other teams international spending pool.

[MadThinker88]

I was thinking maybe the Tribe could get another young arm like Soto. Soto could become a real bullpen option in the next yr or so. IMO, anytime they do one of these type trades (out of options / fringe MLer) they should look to acq. a talented young / raw prospect in return. I'd rather net that than some 27 yo SS who barely hits his weight and is now in his fourth org. after being picked top 100 almost 10 yrs ago.

Another route the Tribe could take is trage a guy like Gomez for future considerations, more specifically...a small portion ($25 K or so) of the other teams international spending pool.

Whether it's a pitcher or position player, taking a flyer that pans out in some manner would always be beneficial. It's the same idea that I have been hoping for with Rob Bryson and a few others.

Personally I would look for a guy that is further away (someone that would be in Lake County or Carolina) this year.

[homerawayfromhome]

I was thinking maybe the Tribe could get another young arm like Soto. Soto could become a real bullpen option in the next yr or so. IMO, anytime they do one of these type trades (out of options / fringe MLer) they should look to acq. a talented young / raw prospect in return. I'd rather net that than some 27 yo SS who barely hits his weight and is now in his fourth org. after being picked top 100 almost 10 yrs ago.

Another route the Tribe could take is trage a guy like Gomez for future considerations, more specifically...a small portion ($25 K or so) of the other teams international spending pool.

Whether it's a pitcher or position player, taking a flyer that pans out in some manner would always be beneficial. It's the same idea that I have been hoping for with Rob Bryson and a few others.

Personally I would look for a guy that is further away (someone that would be in Lake County or Carolina) this year.

Agreed, regardless of position I would focus on attainable talent that's further away (at or near A ball). Personally, I like the idea making a few minor trades including some of the guys like Rob Bryson, Matt Langwell, Bryan Price, Tyler Strurdevant. It could be a way of snagging a guy or two they liked in the international mkt / draft previously, but missed out on.

[GeronimoSon]

Metsblog.com has an interesting piece about the Mets wanting to trade Johan Santana and a "large" portion of his contract. The contract calls for around $ 31 MM & includes the buyout for 2014, however, there is a full NTC that would have to be considered. IMHO, Johan leaving the Mets and going to Cleveland w/ Francona and the AL Central may be a very good fit for him. The article says the Mets would be willing to pick up a "BIG" portion of the contract in return for a medium prospect (C to a C+ ?) While Johan had a rough second half and was shut down for recurring shoulder pain, he did pitch like the ACE he is for the first half of the season. While the Mets are said to be looking for a OF'er Zeke Carrera or if Cord Phelps can play some OF, the Indians could add any one of the 2B/SS prospects the Indians have (Ronny Rodriguez, Tony Wolters, Jose Ramirez) be enough to acquire Johan.

Perhaps the Indians & Mets could expand the deal to include one of the BP arms like Frank Herrmann, or Matt Albers with the mets adding Daniel Murphy to the deal. Before anything can happen, the question needs to be answered... Do the medicals on Johan's shoulder show he can withstand or has a good chance to withstand the rigors of a ML season, then and only then could he be that good risk reward veteran SP the Indians could use or turn into a "windfall" at the trading deadline?

[daingean]

Metsblog.com has an interesting piece about the Mets wanting to trade Johan Santana and a "large" portion of his contract. The contract calls for around $ 31 MM & includes the buyout for 2014, however, there is a full NTC that would have to be considered. IMHO, Johan leaving the Mets and going to Cleveland w/ Francona and the AL Central may be a very good fit for him. The article says the Mets would be willing to pick up a "BIG" portion of the contract in return for a medium prospect (C to a C+ ?) While Johan had a rough second half and was shut down for recurring shoulder pain, he did pitch like the ACE he is for the first half of the season. While the Mets are said to be looking for a OF'er Zeke Carrera or if Cord Phelps can play some OF, the Indians could add any one of the 2B/SS prospects the Indians have (Ronny Rodriguez, Tony Wolters, Jose Ramirez) be enough to acquire Johan.

Perhaps the Indians & Mets could expand the deal to include one of the BP arms like Frank Herrmann, or Matt Albers with the mets adding Daniel Murphy to the deal. Before anything can happen, the question needs to be answered... Do the medicals on Johan's shoulder show he can withstand or has a good chance to withstand the rigors of a ML season, then and only then could he be that good risk reward veteran SP the Indians could use or turn into a "windfall" at the trading deadline?

To be honest, the Mets would have to cover about $25m of his salary to make it worth while. Yes he's got ACE stuff but may only be able to go 1/4 of the season. And to make it work, the Indians would need to discard some salary (i.e. Ubaldo or CPerez) unless the Mets cover all $25m of his 2013 salary and the Tribe is on the hook for his $5.5 million option.

I'd say a team like the Cubs with deeper financial pockets would be the most likely destination if there is one.

[GeronimoSon]

To be honest, the Mets would have to cover about $25m of his salary to make it worth while. Yes he's got ACE stuff but may only be able to go 1/4 of the season. And to make it work, the Indians would need to discard some salary (i.e. Ubaldo or CPerez) unless the Mets cover all $25m of his 2013 salary and the Tribe is on the hook for his $5.5 million option.

I'd say a team like the Cubs with deeper financial pockets would be the most likely destination if there is one.

I was looking for a less than craz..err eccentric means to acquire a potential SP. Garza and Johan at the top of the Cubs lineup... would work if they're both healthy..

The buyout is a concern. The concern is just like Indian fans saw with Grady last season. For all intents and purposes, his salary was lost from day one of his signing.. The risk is a known factor..or should be prior to any trade. That would include the buy out, the cash the Mets would contribute, the NTC waiver for the initial trade as well as any potential trade at the trading deadline, etc.. The Indians must have these factors all in their favor for a deal with the Mets to happen. There would be NO deal otherwise. Now, here's the question that rocks the foundation of baseball... how can a team like the Mets be in such dire financial straights that they would be looking to reduce their current payroll to a level below the Tampa Bay Rays?. It's not market size and it's not because of a dilapidated stadium that is failing to generate revenues.. That franchise has to be in serious trouble..

[daingean]

To be honest, the Mets would have to cover about $25m of his salary to make it worth while. Yes he's got ACE stuff but may only be able to go 1/4 of the season. And to make it work, the Indians would need to discard some salary (i.e. Ubaldo or CPerez) unless the Mets cover all $25m of his 2013 salary and the Tribe is on the hook for his $5.5 million option.

I'd say a team like the Cubs with deeper financial pockets would be the most likely destination if there is one.

I was looking for a less than craz..err eccentric means to acquire a potential SP. Garza and Johan at the top of the Cubs lineup... would work if they're both healthy..

The buyout is a concern. The concern is just like Indian fans saw with Grady last season. For all intents and purposes, his salary was lost from day one of his signing.. The risk is a known factor..or should be prior to any trade. That would include the buy out, the cash the Mets would contribute, the NTC waiver for the initial trade as well as any potential trade at the trading deadline, etc.. The Indians must have these factors all in their favor for a deal with the Mets to happen. There would be NO deal otherwise. Now, here's the question that rocks the foundation of baseball... how can a team like the Mets be in such dire financial straights that they would be looking to reduce their current payroll to a level below the Tampa Bay Rays?. It's not market size and it's not because of a dilapidated stadium that is failing to generate revenues.. That franchise has to be in serious trouble..

The Mets' financial issues starts with the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme.

[homerawayfromhome]

I think the Tribe is focusing more on these arb. eligible players right now...once those deals are settled the Tribe will know where they stand financially. That said I don't think these prevent the Tribe from making further moves or at least it shouldn't.

I suggested a few FA names I thought the Tribe could have some level of interest in. Here's a look at what I think it could take to land a few...

Kelly Johnson - DH / LF / 2b...I'd guess Johnson will have to accept a deal somewhere around 1 yr / $2 M. He strikes out quite a bit, which would be a concern, but he's also a guy that would likely hit 15 hrs and steal 15 bases.

Manny Parra - LHRP...I like Parra, but the mkt is completely bare on LHRP. Parra will strike guys out, but his ERA has been ugly throughout his career. I'd guess he gets somewhere around $1.5 M maybe a bit more.

Jair Jurrgens -RHSP...Jurggens is coming off an ugly yr with ATL and could be a nice grab for the 4/5th spot in the rotation. Jurrgens has talent but doesn't seem to keep it altogether. I'd guess he gets $2/3 M.

[GeronimoSon]

Zach Putnam signed a MiLB deal with the Cubs.. good for him !

[homerawayfromhome]

At the outset of the offseason there were rumors that the Padres were willing to listen to offers on Joe Thatcher - LHRP. Thatcher is purely a LOOGY but he would be a solid add if the Tribe could make a deal happen.

Here's a few possible trades for Thatcher...

Joe Thatcher - LHRP
Rymer Liriano - OF

For... (2 for 3)

Matt Albers - RHRP
David Huff - LHRP....OR....Cord Phelps - 2b....OR....Juan Diaz - SS....OR....Frank Herrman - RHRP
Tony Wolters - SS

Another piece that could fill a need for the Tribe would be Justin Smoak - 1b / DH of the Mariners. I'd offer a similar deal for Smoak.

Justin Smoak - 1b / DH
Lucas Luetge - LHRP

For... (2 for 3)

Matt Albers - RHRP
David Huff - LHRP...OR...Frank Herrman - RHRP
Juan Diaz - SS....OR....Cord Phelps - 2b

[homerawayfromhome]

Any news on Thomas Neal Jeanmar Gomez? I haven't heard a peep since Fri./Sat.

[GeronimoSon]

Any news on Thomas Neal Jeanmar Gomez? I haven't heard a peep since Fri./Sat.

Not a word homer.. I was looking for tidbits about the two Cuban's, Diaz & Alvarez, and the results of their workout. No You Tube.. no stories..etc.. until MLB Tr sent out a blurb indicating the work out was moved to later in the month. I guess that will give more clubs a chance to panic about their OF and SS spots...

The trade proposals: I don't see the Padres moving Liriano.. That kid is a good hitter, great head on his shoulders. I also think that with the progress Frank Herrmann made last year.. his value should be higher..

The Mariners should be looking to move Justin Smoak for the cost of the plane ticket.. That guy had a GREAT September for him. The M's should seriously consider moving him before he turns back into a pumpkin. Smoak is absolutely in Wedge's dog house.. and we all know coughbrandonphillipscough what that means...

[homerawayfromhome]

Any news on Thomas Neal Jeanmar Gomez? I haven't heard a peep since Fri./Sat.

Not a word homer.. I was looking for tidbits about the two Cuban's, Diaz & Alvarez, and the results of their workout. No You Tube.. no stories..etc.. until MLB Tr sent out a blurb indicating the work out was moved to later in the month. I guess that will give more clubs a chance to panic about their OF and SS spots...

The trade proposals: I don't see the Padres moving Liriano.. That kid is a good hitter, great head on his shoulders. I also think that with the progress Frank Herrmann made last year.. his value should be higher..

The Mariners should be looking to move Justin Smoak for the cost of the plane ticket.. That guy had a GREAT September for him. The M's should seriously consider moving him before he turns back into a pumpkin. Smoak is absolutely in Wedge's dog house.. and we all know coughbrandonphillipscough what that means...

Liriano would be a tough get, but the Padres lack depth in the middle of the diamond and really don't have any legit SS prospects that I've read about. Albers is a solid to decent RHRP but with 1 yr of control. Diaz is a mediocre UTL type IMO, while Tony Wolters could be the future at SS for the Padres.

Joe Thatcher is an experienced LOOGY with a few yrs of control. Liriano would be my first target, but the Padres also have Edison Rincon who could develop into a decent corner OF. Liriano is easily the better of the two and would be preferable.

As for Justin Smoak, he could be a buy low switch hitting 1b / DH. He would provide a bit of versatility if the Tribe were to snag him. In fact, Id guess he's the type target the Tribe would try to acq. to fill the DH position. Smoak has 4 more yrs of control and would be an affordable commodity if the Tribe were to acq. him.

Another option could be Logan Morrison, who I think the Marlins will move for the right price, I'm not sure the Tribe has the pieces (SP) that the Marlins might be looking for in return.

[homerawayfromhome]

It sounds like the reps for Adelmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez are trying to generate more interest. The article on mlbtraderumors seemed to suggest some teams didn't realize Diaz would not cost against their IFA spending pool. That's significant for him and its like adding two FA with upside to the mkt with only a mth to go at the end of Jan. before ST kicks off. Teams that have missed out on some upgrades might be bidding heavily against each other. Of course, the agents would never buy time (more $$$) to build hype for this soon-coming workout...

I'd love to see the a tribe hard after these guys, and I'd expect they will pursue them. Besides numbers there's little info. or anything else out there on them that I'm aware of.

Btw, it appears there's a few more International names to keep an eye on. Suk-min Yoon (26) of S.Korea is a RHSP that will generate some interest as a true FA next offseason. Another name to keep an eye on is Cuban RHP Freddy Asiel Alvarez (24 in April) who has had some speculation surrounding his future and potential move to MLB at some point in the future.

Here's a small look at Freddy Asiel Alvarez...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Freddy_Asiel_Álvarez

Here's a look at Suk-min Yoon...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoon_Suk-Min

[GeronimoSon]

....Joe Thatcher is an experienced LOOGY with a few yrs of control. Liriano would be my first target, but the Padres also have Edison Rincon who could develop into a decent corner OF. Liriano is easily the better of the two and would be preferable.

As for Justin Smoak, he could be a buy low switch hitting 1b / DH. He would provide a bit of versatility if the Tribe were to snag him. In fact, Id guess he's the type target the Tribe would try to acq. to fill the DH position. Smoak has 4 more yrs of control and would be an affordable commodity if the Tribe were to acq. him.

Another option could be Logan Morrison, who I think the Marlins will move for the right price, I'm not sure the Tribe has the pieces (SP) that the Marlins might be looking for in return.

Agreed.. targeting Rhymer Liriano makes all the sense in the world. Jedd Gyorko (what a name !) and Logan Forsythe are also interesting young Padres. Before I'd attempt to acquire a useful LOOGY (to both the Indians and Padres) I'd look to see if there isn't any "deep" low A or Rookie level ball that could be a gem in time. It seems to me the Padres have made a few deals specifically for prospects that haven't emerged as potential major leaguers, yet.. guys like Nate Freiman and Kevius Sampson.

Justin Smoak is exactly the kind of guy the Indians would get.. and for not very much. The Mariner fans have absolutely no confidence that Smoak is ever going to hit.. they might be right. The issue with LoMo, is that knee 100%?? If it isn't and he plays through it, then he's Shelly Duncan, part dieu.. The best guess with LoMo is the Marlins will hold him until the trading deadline to see if he can regenerate the 'value' that he exhibited during his 2011 season...

[GoTribe028]

A name of interest the Indians might consider until a better left handed option presents itself came available today. Texas Rangers designated left hander Tommy Hottovy to make room for Lance Berkman

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ypepad.com

Like I said, he's at least an option that would be a cheap investment until something potentially better presents itself. He had quite a season in 3A. At his age he may never be anything other than a journeyman at best but its not as if there are many quality lefties available right now

[GeronimoSon]

Jordan Castrovince had the following assessment of the Cardinals middle infield situation:

...The other primary point of concern for the Cardinals is the middle infield. At shortstop, Rafael Furcal is a fragile 35-year-old, and it's hard to know how much to read into Pete Kozma's sizzling September (or, for that matter, the rather quick return to Earth that followed). And at second base, with prospect Kolten Wong still waiting in the wings, it's either Matt Carpenter, who is learning the position, the light-hitting, defensive-minded Daniel Descalso.

You could see, then, where a little creativity could help the Cards a great deal. Count me among those who has advocated all winter a trade for the Indians' Asdrubal Cabrera, who could take over at either middle-infield position and add an impact bat from both sides. The Cards would seem to have the assemblage of arms in their farm system to sway the Tribe, should either side be so inclined....

How about Shelby for Asdrubal?.. Still just 40 days until pitchers and catchers report to spring training in good year.

[homerawayfromhome]

Sounds like Anthony Castrovince has been reading this blog...

Seriously, the Cards have yet to find a fix for their middle infield needs, could that be Aledmys Diaz the Cuban import? Perhaps, but chances are they'll have to over pay for him. Personally, Id like to see the Tribe in on both Diaz and Dariel Alvarez. Supposedly, the Mets have interest in both and reportedly have some cash to spend, so there will be some stiff competition for the services of both.

As for the Cards I would think they will continue to look at other options. Supposedly, they haven't reached out to FA Kyle Lohse and they might be the best option for him going forward. IF Lohse does resign with the Cards, I think they would look at moving some pitching for an affordable SS option.

I read a rumor about a week ago, I don't recall where, so I'll say it is completely false and there's no truth to it, but it made me think... The rumor involved Joe Kelly, it simply stated that, "Joe Kelly had posted something on Twitter - apparently, he had thought he had been traded back in early December." Later, he had found out he was not. Again, I don't even recall where I read that, if anything it was an interesting rumor / lie. FWIW, I have no clue if Joe Kelly even has a twitter account, furthermore, I'm not sure it was anything more than a lie. Obviously, I'm repeating bc it seemed interesting and the timing seemed to link him to other old trade speculation I had read / heard in a variety of places.

With about 6 weeks left in the offseason a number of teams are still looking for moves, It seems that John Mo is simply, rolling the dice. If Furcal remains healthy, he's lost nothing. If / when Furcal does go down there could be a number of options for the Cards to invest in.

[GoTribe028]

Sounds like Anthony Castrovince has been reading this blog...

Seriously, the Cards have yet to find a fix for their middle infield needs, could that be Aledmys Diaz the Cuban import? Perhaps, but chances are they'll have to over pay for him. Personally, Id like to see the Tribe in on both Diaz and Dariel Alvarez. Supposedly, the Mets have interest in both and reportedly have some cash to spend, so there will be some stiff competition for the services of both.

As for the Cards I would think they will continue to look at other options. Supposedly, they haven't reached out to FA Kyle Lohse and they might be the best option for him going forward. IF Lohse does resign with the Cards, I think they would look at moving some pitching for an affordable SS option.

I read a rumor about a week ago, I don't recall where, so I'll say it is completely false and there's no truth to it, but it made me think... The rumor involved Joe Kelly, it simply stated that, "Joe Kelly had posted something on Twitter - apparently, he had thought he had been traded back in early December." Later, he had found out he was not. Again, I don't even recall where I read that, if anything it was an interesting rumor / lie. FWIW, I have no clue if Joe Kelly even has a twitter account, furthermore, I'm not sure it was anything more than a lie. Obviously, I'm repeating bc it seemed interesting and the timing seemed to link him to other old trade speculation I had read / heard in a variety of places.

With about 6 weeks left in the offseason a number of teams are still looking for moves, It seems that John Mo is simply, rolling the dice. If Furcal remains healthy, he's lost nothing. If / when Furcal does go down there could be a number of options for the Cards to invest in.

Kelly does have a confirmed Twitter account, if there was a rumor like that put out on The Twitter then it was by a fake account. If he had put that up himself, a baseball blog or national writer would have been all over it, just due to the fact that it would have been part of a big trade.

So while I wouldn't probably dismis that rumor you picked up on, I also wouldn't be shocked if he really did think he was traded back around the time of the winter meetings. There were so many stories involving Cabrera and teams like St Louis and Phillie that he thought he was traded from the Cardinals to Cleveland to Phillie and back to the Cardinals. Damn Internets.

EDIT: I know this isn't the place for questions such as this one, anyone else constantly being logged out while visiting these forums?

[GeronimoSon]

...EDIT: I know this isn't the place for questions such as this one, anyone else constantly being logged out while visiting these forums?..

YES.. every time.. and it's annoying.. four wasted keystrokes..only if you remain resident at the site does the logging stay in tact. and.. no, the keep me logged in.. or log me in whenever I enter icons don't work.. I guess that's just part of progress in becoming the Indians Baseball Insider instead of the Indians Prospect Insider !!... <shrugs>

[homerawayfromhome]

Sounds like Anthony Castrovince has been reading this blog...

Seriously, the Cards have yet to find a fix for their middle infield needs, could that be Aledmys Diaz the Cuban import? Perhaps, but chances are they'll have to over pay for him. Personally, Id like to see the Tribe in on both Diaz and Dariel Alvarez. Supposedly, the Mets have interest in both and reportedly have some cash to spend, so there will be some stiff competition for the services of both.

As for the Cards I would think they will continue to look at other options. Supposedly, they haven't reached out to FA Kyle Lohse and they might be the best option for him going forward. IF Lohse does resign with the Cards, I think they would look at moving some pitching for an affordable SS option.

I read a rumor about a week ago, I don't recall where, so I'll say it is completely false and there's no truth to it, but it made me think... The rumor involved Joe Kelly, it simply stated that, "Joe Kelly had posted something on Twitter - apparently, he had thought he had been traded back in early December." Later, he had found out he was not. Again, I don't even recall where I read that, if anything it was an interesting rumor / lie. FWIW, I have no clue if Joe Kelly even has a twitter account, furthermore, I'm not sure it was anything more than a lie. Obviously, I'm repeating bc it seemed interesting and the timing seemed to link him to other old trade speculation I had read / heard in a variety of places.

With about 6 weeks left in the offseason a number of teams are still looking for moves, It seems that John Mo is simply, rolling the dice. If Furcal remains healthy, he's lost nothing. If / when Furcal does go down there could be a number of options for the Cards to invest in.

Kelly does have a confirmed Twitter account, if there was a rumor like that put out on The Twitter then it was by a fake account. If he had put that up himself, a baseball blog or national writer would have been all over it, just due to the fact that it would have been part of a big trade.

So while I wouldn't probably dismis that rumor you picked up on, I also wouldn't be shocked if he really did think he was traded back around the time of the winter meetings. There were so many stories involving Cabrera and teams like St Louis and Phillie that he thought he was traded from the Cardinals to Cleveland to Phillie and back to the Cardinals. Damn Internets.

EDIT: I know this isn't the place for questions such as this one, anyone else constantly being logged out while visiting these forums?

First, I didn't mention it until now bc I didn't think it was a true... It did make me think though, btw, it was a Cards blog (don't remember which one) read it on in an article but couldn't find it when I went back to look for it. Perhaps, the author realized it was a fraud and pulled it.

Second, yes I am repeatedly logging back in. In fact I've have to re-type a few posts bc of the difficulty.

[GoTribe028]

@hoynsie: #Indians sign Scott Kazmir, Jerry Gil, Edward Paredes to minor league deals with ST invitations. http://t.co/303DPZ0z

[GeronimoSon]

With the Adam LaRoche's imminent signing in Washington, Jon Heyman already has his "..who's going to be lining up to trade for Michael Morse" story ready to go:

....Mike Morse according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). The 30-year-old right-handed hitter will earn $7MM in 2013 before qualifying for free agency after the season. He's hit .296/.345/.516 over the last three years. Here's the latest on Morse...

The Nationals are seeking a left-handed reliever and/or prospects in any Morse swap, reports ESPN's Jim Bowden (Twitter links). Amanda Comak of The Washington Times hears the asking price was high at the Winter Meetings.
The Nationals believe the Rays would make a great trade partner for Morse, reports MLB.com's Bill Ladson (on Twitter). Tampa has a strong prospect base from which to build a package.
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com points out that the Mariners, Indians, Rays, Rangers, Yankees, Phillies, and Mets all need a bat and could target Morse... Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#SsUGMMXpkcGt0KTF.99

Seems like the same group of teams over and over....

[homerawayfromhome]

I'm not sure the Tribe would try to land Morse, unless they were sending someone back attached to some cash. Morse would be a solid add, I'm not sure of they have the room to work him in the budget although they seem to be inclined that if its a piece they want, it won't hold them back. Is Morse a FA at seasons end which would dampen his overall value for the Tribe.

Morse came up thru Seattles system and could spare LHRP's Charlie Furbush or Lucas Luetge coupled with a cpl of prospects from the Mariners deep farm system I'd think they may have a good chance at landing Morse.

[GeronimoSon]

I'm not sure the Tribe would try to land Morse, unless they were sending someone back attached to some cash. Morse would be a solid add, I'm not sure of they have the room to work him in the budget although they seem to be inclined that if its a piece they want, it won't hold them back. Is Morse a FA at seasons end which would dampen his overall value for the Tribe.

Morse came up thru Seattles system and could spare LHRP's Charlie Furbush or Lucas Luetge coupled with a cpl of prospects from the Mariners deep farm system I'd think they may have a good chance at landing Morse.

There are a couple of things going on with the LaRoche signing.. first, the compensation the Nats would have received had LaRoche signed elsewhere is lost. So, their GM will want to 'recoup' the value, somehow. It may take more than a minor throw away type BP arm or prospect to makethis trade happen if Morse's value is appraised in this manner. The fact that Morse has been extremely consistent over the last three years doesn't hurt either...

The Mariners already have about 16 1B/LF/DH's on their roster.. Other than providing a good reason to send Justin Smoak to Tacoma (even after his strong finish in September), this is the kind of move the M's make that would cause you to scratch your head and wonder WTF are they doing there? Morse, if he were able to hang another triple slash line like he did in 2010: 289/352/519 & 2011. 303/360/550 & 2012: 291/321/470 that would make him the M's best hitter.. If the M's were to acquire Morse, then the Upton to Seattle trade rumors would end.

Perhaps with move, the Indians and Mariners might finally come to the conclusion they need each other: A deal that has one of the M's prospect SP's and Gutierrez coming back, please.

OR..

..the Indians buck up & decide they have to have Morse & trade for him with Scott Barnes as the primary piece the Nats allegedly want..i.e. a LHRP ?? We shall see..

[homerawayfromhome]

I'm curious how the whole three team deal between the Tigers, Cubs and O's is going to work. Rumor is the O's don't want to move Manny Machado to SS (yet?) and apparently the Tigers want a SS. The O's also reportedly, have interest in Morse too. I guess we shall see. It seems like there's a few deals brewing. All of this w/o mentioning Upton / Kubel. My gestimation we could see several more big trades...when things are traditionally winding down, it seems the stove is heating up.

[GeronimoSon]

I'm curious how the whole three team deal between the Tigers, Cubs and O's is going to work. Rumor is the O's don't want to move Manny Machado to SS (yet?) and apparently the Tigers want a SS. The O's also reportedly, have interest in Morse too. I guess we shall see. It seems like there's a few deals brewing. All of this w/o mentioning Upton / Kubel. My gestimation we could see several more big trades...when things are traditionally winding down, it seems the stove is heating up.

Cubs fans are delirious about the possibility of their heroes being involved in any trade that won't matter for their club in 2013 and beyond. The O's seem to be wavering on moving JJ Hardy or not with emphasis on not. The Tigers want to unburden themselves of an SP that hasn't lived up to expectations and has only two years to go before he becomes a FA.. Sounds like a match made just a wee bit south of heaven....

[homerawayfromhome]

I posted this as a response to the front page article: Corner of Carnagie and Ontario, by Jim Pete...

Honestly, I'm probably a little crazy for thinking it, but I think the Tribe should be in on both Bourn and Lohse. Signing either for that matter is far different but perhaps they land one of the two remaining upper level FA's at a friendly price.

I've made several suggestions, how the Tribe could land either Bourn or Lohse. IF they can they should...we are talking some of the premier FA's on the mkt. To sign the same qlty of player next season would potentially cost the Tribe a 1st rd pk.

Here's an outside idea how the Tribe could creatively land Kyle Lohse...
1st I'll use Cody Ross as an example. Ross reportedly wanted 3 yrs / $25 M and eventually signed for 3 yrs / $26 M including the $1 M buyout on the fourth yr.
2nd I'll use the Ross contract as a model, and meet the avg. annual salary that Edwin Jackson got from the Cubs.
3rd Here's how... 3 yrs with a 4th yr team option for a buyout of $3 M, now here's how the deal could stack up...
2013: 1st yr $6 M
2014: 2nd yr $15 M
2015: 3rd yr $15 M
2016: 4th yr $3 M buyout (of potentially $15 M)
Total contract value: $39 M over 3 yrs

This is just an example of how the Tribe could be creative and add a FA they want. It's unlikely, but after seeing the Dbax sign Cody Ross as inspiration, maybe, just maybe the Tribe gets creative and makes it happen.

[GoTribe028]

@mlbtraderumors: Pirates Acquire Jeanmar Gomez http://t.co/sdW4JTV9 #mlb

Here's a link to the OF we got from The Bucks, Quincy Latimore

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... ypepad.com

[homerawayfromhome]

Here's another look at Quincy Latimore from Pirates Prospects....
http://players.piratesprospects.com/201 ... imore.html

Seems like he could develop into a 4th OF type. I had hoped they could pull off a deal for Gomez to acq. a useful piece Latimore isn't a big time prospect, like I said maybe he develops into a fourth OF.

[GoTribe028]

Here's another look at Quincy Latimore from Pirates Prospects....
http://players.piratesprospects.com/201 ... imore.html

Seems like he could develop into a 4th OF type. I had hoped they could pull off a deal for Gomez to acq. a useful piece Latimore isn't a big time prospect, like I said maybe he develops into a fourth OF.

Gomez got you about as much a useful piece as you're gonna get. Depth for depth.

[homerawayfromhome]

GoTribe,

Agreed, Latimore was the Pirates 21st top prospect in 2011. I'd guess he's a top 30 guy maybe with the Tribe. I was hoping they would land some one further away Rookie / A ball type with some projection. Decent trade I'd prefer a guy like Latimore over say some 10 yr minor league vet. Latimore doesn't have much projection but maybe a small change of approach at the plate helps...OR...the change of scenery, may make him rethink his approach. Overall, this was a realistic pick up.

I could see Gomez being more effective as a MR / long man in the NL. At least he will get to face the pitcher instead of the DH, which should help him a little.

[OhioBaseball]

Here's another look at Quincy Latimore from Pirates Prospects....
http://players.piratesprospects.com/201 ... imore.html

Seems like he could develop into a 4th OF type. I had hoped they could pull off a deal for Gomez to acq. a useful piece Latimore isn't a big time prospect, like I said maybe he develops into a fourth OF.

Gomez got you about as much a useful piece as you're gonna get. Depth for depth.

Really? Latimore sucks. He can hardly bat .250 and his BB/K ratios are historically poor.

Gomez could easily have been used as an inexpensive, strike throwing, ground ball inducing 6th-7th inning reliever or a long-man in 2013. This is terrible exchange of talent, particularly for an organization so starved for young pitching. I admit that I don't think Gomez is really all that great, but a MLB ready, 24-year old guy capable of starting for a 23-year old barely keeping his head above water in Double-A is a not a good exchange.

Jeanmar Gomez is NOT a needle-mover. He's really only a replacement level kind of talent, but at $400k the next couple of years that's got value. Losing him very likely won't make much of a difference for the Indians, but I think he had value to this organization. Roster mis-management by the Indians to the benefit of the Pirates.

[GoTribe028]

Here's another look at Quincy Latimore from Pirates Prospects....
http://players.piratesprospects.com/201 ... imore.html

Seems like he could develop into a 4th OF type. I had hoped they could pull off a deal for Gomez to acq. a useful piece Latimore isn't a big time prospect, like I said maybe he develops into a fourth OF.

Gomez got you about as much a useful piece as you're gonna get. Depth for depth.

Really? Latimore sucks. He can hardly bat .250 and his BB/K ratios are historically poor.

Gomez could easily have been used as an inexpensive, strike throwing, ground ball inducing 6th-7th inning reliever or a long-man in 2013. This is terrible exchange of talent, particularly for an organization so starved for young pitching. I admit that I don't think Gomez is really all that great, but a MLB ready, 24-year old guy capable of starting for a 23-year old barely keeping his head above water in Double-A is a not a good exchange.

Jeanmar Gomez is NOT a needle-mover. He's really only a replacement level kind of talent, but at $400k the next couple of years that's got value. Losing him very likely won't make much of a difference for the Indians, but I think he had value to this organization. Roster mis-management by the Indians to the benefit of the Pirates.

Gomez is not good. An argument that he could be anything more than a swingman depth starter is just foolishness. He's just not any good. He wouldn't bring back anything good either, which he didn't. Not a loss at all.

[homerawayfromhome]

I think it's telling Gomez could have been claimed but was not, every team had a shot at him. If he had not been traded he would have been lost in the triple A shuffle. To get any value and U think the Tribe did get some value, minimal, but some value...

[MadThinker88]

I think the Tribe expects to lose T Neal and they are taking a step to bridge the vacancy until someone in the lower minors is ready to jump up and take the opportunity. Can't fault the thinking in that regard.

However I would have looked for something other than a 1 for 1 deal. Once the Tribe knew there was interest in Pittsburgh for Gomez, I would have looked to expand the deal a little bit adding 1 or 2 more pieces to upgrade the player being sent back.

I've believed that Joe Smith was going to be dealt the past 2 off seasons and I've figured that Cord Phelps was on the way out last off season & this. Many times I have wondered what a package of Joe and Cord might be able to bring back to the Tribe.

I'm curious if either player would have interested the Pirates and if so, could the return (w/ Gomez) become a little more shall we say tangible?

[homerawayfromhome]

Madthinker88,

I completely agree, personally that would have been my preference. The Twins were also rumored in on him and I've heard in the past that the Padres had interest in him as well. Overall, though IMO, to get the best value in this kind of deal, it's best to couple together a few pieces to get a better return.

[OhioBaseball]

I think it's telling Gomez could have been claimed but was not, every team had a shot at him. If he had not been traded he would have been lost in the triple A shuffle. To get any value and U think the Tribe did get some value, minimal, but some value...

This is the 2nd time you've said this, but are you sure it's correct? I really don't think you have to clear waivers in order to be traded after being DFA'd. The logic makes no sense -- every team has a chance at Gomez for nothing but a couple of bucks and they all pass, so then teams are allowed to give up a player for the guy instead that supposedly cleared waivers (to be had for virtually free) and somehow they think that's a better deal? I don't think that is right.

Obviously, given how marginal Latimore is, the trade market wasn't hot for Gomez, but I still think he should have been kept in favor of some of the other guys that were kept on the 40 man. Getting Latimore is better than nothing, but I don't think the Indians had to give up on Gomez so soon.

[Tondo]

Here's another look at Quincy Latimore from Pirates Prospects....
http://players.piratesprospects.com/201 ... imore.html

Seems like he could develop into a 4th OF type. I had hoped they could pull off a deal for Gomez to acq. a useful piece Latimore isn't a big time prospect, like I said maybe he develops into a fourth OF.

Here's the part I like from that link:

"Latimore returned to Altoona and got off to a very bad start, hitting 179/225/254 in April. He hit consistently well the rest of the year, with an OPS between .790 and .842 every month for a 266/338/468 line after April. Overall, he increased his walk rate and cut his K rate from nearly one every three ABs to about one every four. He continued to have a large platoon split, although not nearly as large as the previous year, at .822 against LHPs and .719 against RHPs."

Even if you look at his 2011 season in AA you can see that starting with the 2nd half of the season he had an OPS over .800, so if you excuse his 2012 April, we're talking about a AA hitter at age 22/23 with an OPS north of .800 for 1 and a half seasons, that's not shabby...and he improved and got more consistent, so there's probably some marginal upside still left in him. He has some power and some speed...a lot of "some's", I know, but if he can pull it all together we'd be looking at a pretty solid player.

He basically is a slightly younger and more advanced but less patient version of Carlos Moncrief

Decent pickup

[homerawayfromhome]

[/quote]

I think it's telling Gomez could have been claimed but was not, every team had a shot at him. If he had not been traded he would have been lost in the triple A shuffle. To get any value and U think the Tribe did get some value, minimal, but some value...

This is the 2nd time you've said this, but are you sure it's correct? I really don't think you have to clear waivers in order to be traded after being DFA'd. The logic makes no sense -- every team has a chance at Gomez for nothing but a couple of bucks and they all pass, so then teams are allowed to give up a player for the guy instead that supposedly cleared waivers (to be had for virtually free) and somehow they think that's a better deal? I don't think that is right.

Obviously, given how marginal Latimore is, the trade market wasn't hot for Gomez, but I still think he should have been kept in favor of some of the other guys that were kept on the 40 man. Getting Latimore is better than nothing, but I don't think the Indians had to give up on Gomez so soon.

Honestly, I'm not exactly clear on the DFA rules - apparently, I have had the rules confused. I have read on a Rockies blog w/ DFA rules outlined, that a player has to clear waivers (every team) to be traded, which is not necessarily true - if you read the rules a little closer. A team can place a claim on a player to set the clock in motion, so to speak. The two teams are given 2 business days to get a deal done.

Based on what I've read teams have to pay a fee to claim players on waivers. If a team claims a player, the two teams have 2 business days to work out a trade. The waiving team can accept the fee and allow the said player to become property of the claiming team. IF a player goes unclaimed they can be out righted to the minor leagues and removed from the 40-man roster. Up on a second DFA a player can accept being out righted to the minors or elect FA. Players with a first time out right have to accept the minor league assignment. Teams hold to option to rescind waivers and keep the player as well.

Also, if a player clears waivers they can be traded. I said a player had to clear waivers to be traded. That's not entirely true, the Tribe has the option to rescind the waiver, or trade the player to the claiming team -- within 2 business days or simply let the waiver go through and accept the claiming fee. As many educated fans know teams will claim players in August to block trades too.

The case with Jeanmar Gomez appears that Gomez either cleared waivers and then was traded or was claimed by the Pirates a few days later. Why? Gomez was traded a week after being placed on waivers. The Pirates may have placed a claim several days after Gomez was placed on waivers, which gave the Tribe and Pirates 2 business days to work out a deal.

Here's a link to the DFA rules on Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Leag ... ansactions

[GeronimoSon]

Quincy Latimore for JeanMar.. ho hum. Exactly what was stated the Indians DON'T want.. an older former prospect that has little chance to make any impact other than as a minor league roster fodder.. K's too much, walks too little and is always swinging for the short fences of McKechnie Stadium in Low A ball.

Getting Latimore for JeanMar being better than nothing is debatable..

[GeronimoSon]

Was anyone else shocked that the Mariners included one of Taijuan Walker/Danny Hultzen along with James Paxton, Nick Franklin etc in the trade proposal for Justin Upton? Kevin Towers had to be on his knees begging J-Up to agree to the deal. It would save BOTH Jack Z and Towers jobs if that deal were to be consummated.

That trade would clearly up the pressure for the Mariners to become relevant RIGHT NOW. There would be two thing that would seem to help make a Mariners/Indians trade more plausible.. 1. The Mariners would have at least one too many outfielders and 2. The Mariners would be in a "go for it now" mode and would need an impact hitting SS.

Hello Jack Z??????... Maybe ?

[homerawayfromhome]

It seems the Mariners may have missed out once again landing their offensive prize. The rumored pkg of Tijuan Walker, Stephen Pryor, Charlie Furbush and Nick Franklin (HardballTalk) would have netted them Justin Upton. Upton could be holding out for some form of compensation to waive his no trade clause, but right now the deal seems dead. Where will the mariners turn from here? Maybe Michael Morse or maybe ACab who knows at this point. There's a good chance IF the Tribe does anything it will be to add more pitching.

[GeronimoSon]

It seems the Mariners may have missed out once again landing their offensive prize. The rumored pkg of Tijuan Walker, Stephen Pryor, Charlie Furbush and Nick Franklin (HardballTalk) would have netted them Justin Upton. Upton could be holding out for some form of compensation to waive his no trade clause, but right now the deal seems dead. Where will the mariners turn from here? Maybe Michael Morse or maybe ACab who knows at this point. There's a good chance IF the Tribe does anything it will be to add more pitching.

I would have loved to see that trade come to pass.. The Mariners would find themselves with a need for an impact middle infielder NOW (Adrubal) and, with the loss of two BP arms (Furbush and Pryor), The M's would be in an even more desperate situation to acquire an impact BP arm (CPerez). The even without the DBax deal, it's a good fit..

[homerawayfromhome]

I was listening to Terry Pluto the other day and he speculated the Tribe is not done yet.... I think he said, he believes they'll trade one of CPerez or ACab before the end of ST. Obviously, they have RH bullpen depth but also a ton of middle infield options quickly pushing their way up through the farm. It may be a deal the Tribe makes to clear some room ($$$) to land another FA...OR...it could come after the fact.

Maybe the Tribe will do something like sign Lohse 2 yrs with an option or Marcum to a 1 yr deal with an option and then turn Ubaldo Jimenez into a few worthwhile pieces. The Padres have expressed interest in Jimenez and could look to add another SP before ST. Honestly, I think adding another SP should be an option and then look to alleviate the budget but only in the right type of deal though.

I've mentioned this several times, but I think the Tribe should remain aggressive in on Lohse and Bourn. Primarily bc signing those types of FA would cost excessively more next yr. Other pieces; (ACab, CPerez, Jimenez) could be moved to offset both the cost $ and the talent lost bc of the draft pk penalty.

A final thought, maybe the Tribe and M's can hook up and pull off a deal like...
ACab for Hultzen, Furbush and Martinez.

[GeronimoSon]

I was listening to Terry Pluto the other day and he speculated the Tribe is not done yet.... I think he said, he believes they'll trade one of CPerez or ACab before the end of ST. Obviously, they have RH bullpen depth but also a ton of middle infield options quickly pushing their way up through the farm. It may be a deal the Tribe makes to clear some room ($$$) to land another FA...OR...it could come after the fact.

Maybe the Tribe will do something like sign Lohse 2 yrs with an option or Marcum to a 1 yr deal with an option and then turn Ubaldo Jimenez into a few worthwhile pieces. The Padres have expressed interest in Jimenez and could look to add another SP before ST. Honestly, I think adding another SP should be an option and then look to alleviate the budget but only in the right type of deal though.

I've mentioned this several times, but I think the Tribe should remain aggressive in on Lohse and Bourn. Primarily bc signing those types of FA would cost excessively more next yr. Other pieces; (ACab, CPerez, Jimenez) could be moved to offset both the cost $ and the talent lost bc of the draft pk penalty.

A final thought, maybe the Tribe and M's can hook up and pull off a deal like... ACab for Hultzen, Furbush and Martinez.

Signing Lohse would take the Indians 2013 Hot Stove season to the brink of utopian. It would signal to anyone within shouting distance of our wigwam, we intend to win this year.. In order to do that.. at least one and perhaps two "someone's" would have to go..

I'd love to acquire Danny Hultzen.. he's the goods and could turn out to be the equal of Taijuan Walker (I honestly believe he will be better). I understand the inclusion of Furbush, but not Martinez. Martinez went to Jax of the AA Southern League, a hitters park, and pretty much stunk. Perhaps you meant Stefen Romero? I have this feeling that the 2013 season is going to be a banner year for Franklin Gutierrez. Every other statistic and history says otherwise.. but, I cannot get that idea out of my head.. (btw.. the last feeling i had like this was when I saw Allen Craig for the Cardinals prior to the 2011 season) At the end of the day, having Hultzen with a really deep prospect like Victor Sanchez & Guti is a deal that, if made, would vastly improve the Indians chances to compete in 2013 and beyond.. If the Mariners absolutely had to have CPerez's included into the deal that would add Charlie Furbush and or Martinez/Romero, then, that would be okay too. The the Indians would then have the cash to buy Kyle Lohse?..

[homerawayfromhome]

I've went over the value of signing Lohse and Bourn in other posts so I won't exhaust it further. IMO, any draft pks lost (minor league talent - wise) could easily be restored by dealing one of ACab, CPerez and even Jimenez.

I say sign Lohse 3 yrs and give him a 4th yr as a team option with a good sized buyout like $3 M but back load the deal to yrs 2 and 3 with the 4th yr similar in scope to yrs 2 and 3. Pretty much make the deal 3 yrs / $39 M including his buyout - which puts him on track with Edwin Jackson's 4 / $52 M.

Then maybe the Tribe could trade Ubaldo Jimenez to the Padres for Logan Forsythe and minor league RHSP Matt Wisler. It would clear some cash and add another option of the bench in Forsythe. Wisler 20, pitched in the Midwest League last season and was impressive... 114 IP 115 K 28 BB 95 Hits 1 HR 23 GS 2.53 ERA. Wisler pitches in the low 90's and hits 97 on occasion, with a curve, slider and change. Wisler was an over-slot signing by the Padres away from Ohio St. in 2011.

I'd also like to see the Tribe pull off a deal like I mentioned above, something like ACab for Danny Hultzen, Charlie Furbush and Francisco Martinez. (A few other names I should mention...James Paxton and Taijuan Walker - both of whom the Tribe would likely have interest in). Hultzen is a big-time LHSP prospect that's near ready as can be, Furbush a LHRP with yrs of control and Francisco Martinez is a toolsy 3b / OF who some upside. Martinez is the third piece in the deal, he's a guy who needs to develop / show power but has the ability and speed to play OF spots and may end up as a toolsy UTL type, I like him as a RF / LF. Martinez is a guy that could be replaced by others like Leon Landry, Victor Sanchez, Brandon Maurer (preferably), Jack Marder and Stephon Romero.

Of course this is all speculative, but then again I said for what seems like 2 mths the Tribe should and could acq. Trevor Bauer. That really means nothing, I knew the Tribe would have interest bc they did before, during the 2011 draft. I say all of this bc I believe the Tribe will look to be / remain creative while looking to build for now and the future...and I expect they will do something else before ST is done, my only question is, what?

[GeronimoSon]

.... I expect they will do something else before ST is done, my only question is, what?...

...Isn't that the idea behind a "speculative trade" thread for die hard baseball fans of all kinds.. The Mariners trade you suggested and the inclusion of several minor/B/C prospects all seem to meld into something that could get done..

but.. by conspicuous omission, no mention of Gutierrez.. What???? you don't like Guti?

[homerawayfromhome]

Actually forgot about Franklin...I kicked myself when I heard the Tribe traded him, not that he was that great but I didn't get the deal, although I like Joe Smith -- btw, I'd like to see the Tribe extend him at a reasonable price OR trade him before he can walk. He's an Ohio native and has pitched well, might get over paid in FA, but I'm hoping the extend him at least a yr. Maybe something like 2 yrs / $6 M keeps him. Back to Frankie G, I don't see getting him unless he is packaged with one of Walker, Hultzen, Paxton. If getting Gutierrez back is a prerequisite to get one of them than I say make the deal assuming its not an overpay by the Tribe.

[GeronimoSon]

Actually forgot about Franklin...I kicked myself when I heard the Tribe traded him, not that he was that great but I didn't get the deal, although I like Joe Smith -- btw, I'd like to see the Tribe extend him at a reasonable price OR trade him before he can walk. He's an Ohio native and has pitched well, might get over paid in FA, but I'm hoping the extend him at least a yr. Maybe something like 2 yrs / $6 M keeps him. Back to Frankie G, I don't see getting him unless he is packaged with one of Walker, Hultzen, Paxton. If getting Gutierrez back is a prerequisite to get one of them than I say make the deal assuming its not an overpay by the Tribe.

Assuming a healthy Gutierrez.. Danny Hultzen would be a very interesting step in the right direction for the Indians and their efforts. FWIW, that would be a 'return' in the choo category.. It's just so costly to make that happen, though. Perhaps the target is set to high in a two for one?. IDK..