MLB Hot Stove

[JP_Frost]

As JP Frost pointed out excellent deal for the Tribe to pull this off w/o giving up ACab, Chris Perez and may I add Lindor too bc he was rumored to be on the mkt.

I never bought the Lindor rumors. Indians seem to be very high on him and rightfully so. Maybe if the Dbacks included both Skaggs and Bradley.

[Hermie13]

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Indians to send #Reds approximately $3.5M to account for differences in projected salaries between Choo, Stubbs.

Dang, that's a good chunk of change....

[OhioBaseball]

I may be biased b/c I have loved Trevor Bauer for a couple years now, but this looks like a really good haul. I thought Bauer was the #1 guy in the draft two years ago. He's got his flaws, but the guy can really deal.

You've gotta consider that the Twins very recently traded Denard Span (a comparably productive player to Choo but on a better contract) for Alex Meyer, an A-ball (yet extremely talented and high upside, but still raw) pitching prospect. Now the Indians turn Choo and three spare parts for Trevor Bauer (a near MLB, top 10 overall prospect in minors) and Drew Stubbs -- either the Twins really love Alex Meyer (which I would understand) or they're probably a little upset they didn't get more than just Meyer for Span.

I guess I'm really surprised the D'Backs took Trevor Bauer 3rd overall about 18 months ago and are ready to bail on him already for a Double-A/Triple-A SS prospect that is talented but far from a sure thing and a couple spare parts (Sipp and Anderson)? What the hell is Arizona thinking? Do they know something about Bauer that we don't? Is his arm about to explode? I just don't see how this makes sense for the D'Backs. Gregorius looks hardly ready for MLB. I saw some tapes of him and he looks like an impressive upside talent, but MLB ready starting pitching prospects that miss MLB bats are valuable commodities.

Even throwing out guys like Shaw or Albers or Stubbs (although I think he's a good buy low), getting Trevor Bauer for Choo alone is very nice. I love Bauer. CA seemed to extract a good deal of value out of him by involving other teams' assets. I mean, Bauer is a risky SP prospect and could show up to Arizona in March and need major arm surgery (delivery, high work load) but whatever. He's a real good pitching prospect. I don't get this for the D'Backs -- their baseball people must LOVE Gregorius.

[GeronimoSon]

Does anyone know where a huge Diamondbacks forum is? I'd like to see their reaction to this. They should be furious.

http://www.azsnakepit.com/2012/12/11/37 ... -from-reds

Some prime examples of feelings being conveyed:

-the analysis is right there. Whyyyyyyy Towers whyyyyyyyyyyy??!!

-yuck, Dbacks must really cant stand Bauer if they did this after drafting him 3rd

- Remind me again why we acquired Pennington? Do we really need 3 light hitting shortstops on one team? Are light hitting shortstops replacing fat relievers as KT’s fetish?

Any confidence I had in KT is absolutely out the window. Should’ve kept Dipoto.

-( MY FAVORITE) I know a lot of you guys are upset and angry, and that’s totally natural and fine, but PLEASE refrain from swearing and/or personal attacks on anyone who may have a differing opinion. Not that those have happened yet here, but it’s good to be proactive.

[Hermie13]

Very nice deal. Love Bauer's potential. And Stubbs, despite the K's, is valuable centerfielder and great baserunner.

Plus we still have Acab and Perez as potential trade chips.

Stubbs has a career .821 OPS vs lefties.

Stubbs hits lefties, Reynolds hits lefties....if we got Swisher, he hits lefties.....even Aviles has a near .800 OPS against lefties (.797 career mark against them).

hmm, wonder what the Tribe felt was their biggest area of need on offense?

[JP_Frost]

I may be biased b/c I have loved Trevor Bauer for a couple years now, but this looks like a really good haul. I thought Bauer was the #1 guy in the draft two years ago. He's got his flaws, but the guy can really deal.

You've gotta consider that the Twins very recently traded Denard Span (a comparably productive player to Choo but on a better contract) for Alex Meyer, an A-ball (yet extremely talented and high upside, but still raw) pitching prospect. Now the Indians turn Choo and three spare parts for Trevor Bauer (a near MLB, top 10 overall prospect in minors) and Drew Stubbs -- either the Twins really love Alex Meyer (which I would understand) or they're probably a little upset they didn't get more than just Meyer for Span.

I guess I'm really surprised the D'Backs took Trevor Bauer 3rd overall about 18 months ago and are ready to bail on him already for a Double-A/Triple-A SS prospect that is talented but far from a sure thing and a couple spare parts (Sipp and Anderson)? What the hell is Arizona thinking? Do they know something about Bauer that we don't? Is his arm about to explode? I just don't see how this makes sense for the D'Backs. Gregorius looks hardly ready for MLB. I saw some tapes of him and he looks like an impressive upside talent, but MLB ready starting pitching prospects that miss MLB bats are valuable commodities.

Even throwing out guys like Shaw or Albers or Stubbs (although I think he's a good buy low), getting Trevor Bauer for Choo alone is very nice. I love Bauer. CA seemed to extract a good deal of value out of him by involving other teams' assets. I mean, Bauer is a risky SP prospect and could show up to Arizona in March and need major arm surgery (delivery, high work load) but whatever. He's a real good pitching prospect. I don't get this for the D'Backs -- their baseball people must LOVE Gregorius.

Agreed.

Weren't there some stories about Bauer to rubbing some of Arizona's higher-ups the wrong way? Kid seems quite unconventional in all aspects.

That said, I think the DBacks figured they have more high upside arms in the pipeline and would bet on Bauer being inconsistent or ready for injury. I also think they may have focused too much on what they don't have instead of what they do. All in all, Arizona's going backwards at the moment, especially if they trade Upton for anything less than a Profar type of talent.

[Rocky55]

As JP Frost pointed out excellent deal for the Tribe to pull this off w/o giving up ACab, Chris Perez and may I add Lindor too bc he was rumored to be on the mkt.

..and Masterson, who was rumored as a potential target. If Choo and three guys can bring back a FOR SP, maybe the Indians should continue talking.. Hello Jack Z?....

Didn't Jack Z trade us LaPorta?

[A.Zajac]

Does anyone know where a huge Diamondbacks forum is? I'd like to see their reaction to this. They should be furious.

Towers has traded Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, Albers, Bryan Shaw for 2 SS's that can't hit... Sipp, and Lars Anderson. Anyone else find this as funny as I do?

[homerawayfromhome]

GSon,
LoL

Wow! The world really is going to end in ten days now I know it's true... Hoynsie tipped this whole deal off and then CA and company actually got this huge deal done.

[Hermie13]

I may be biased b/c I have loved Trevor Bauer for a couple years now, but this looks like a really good haul. I thought Bauer was the #1 guy in the draft two years ago. He's got his flaws, but the guy can really deal.

You've gotta consider that the Twins very recently traded Denard Span (a comparably productive player to Choo but on a better contract) for Alex Meyer, an A-ball (yet extremely talented and high upside, but still raw) pitching prospect. Now the Indians turn Choo and three spare parts for Trevor Bauer (a near MLB, top 10 overall prospect in minors) and Drew Stubbs -- either the Twins really love Alex Meyer (which I would understand) or they're probably a little upset they didn't get more than just Meyer for Span.

I guess I'm really surprised the D'Backs took Trevor Bauer 3rd overall about 18 months ago and are ready to bail on him already for a Double-A/Triple-A SS prospect that is talented but far from a sure thing and a couple spare parts (Sipp and Anderson)? What the hell is Arizona thinking? Do they know something about Bauer that we don't? Is his arm about to explode? I just don't see how this makes sense for the D'Backs. Gregorius looks hardly ready for MLB. I saw some tapes of him and he looks like an impressive upside talent, but MLB ready starting pitching prospects that miss MLB bats are valuable commodities.

Even throwing out guys like Shaw or Albers or Stubbs (although I think he's a good buy low), getting Trevor Bauer for Choo alone is very nice. I love Bauer. CA seemed to extract a good deal of value out of him by involving other teams' assets. I mean, Bauer is a risky SP prospect and could show up to Arizona in March and need major arm surgery (delivery, high work load) but whatever. He's a real good pitching prospect. I don't get this for the D'Backs -- their baseball people must LOVE Gregorius.

Agree on the Twins, unless they love Meyer they have to be kicking themselves now. I know some got annoyed with all that 3, 4, and 5 team trade talk during the winter meetings but you gotta think the Twins are wishing they'd have poked their heads in on those discussions. Clearly the Tribe and Dbacks talking then got this deal rolling (Tribe knew what kind of SS D'backs wanted, got the Reds involved late).

I do agree on Bauer and the D'backs too....giving him up like they did, makes you wonder on his health. Could just be maybe be a Colby Rasmus thing though? Where he just simply would not listen to coaches or soemthing? Hopefully things work out in Cleveland. Francona does have some experience with difficult players *cough*Manny Ramirez*cough*

[homerawayfromhome]

@AZajac,
Is that what subtraction by addition means?

[Hermie13]

Does anyone know where a huge Diamondbacks forum is? I'd like to see their reaction to this. They should be furious.

Towers has traded Chris Young, Trevor Bauer, Albers, Bryan Shaw for 2 SS's that can't hit... Sipp, and Lars Anderson. Anyone else find this as funny as I do?

Hey now....he did also get an extremely overpaid and aging closer in Heath Bell.....to be his setup guy.

[Rocky55]

I may be biased b/c I have loved Trevor Bauer for a couple years now, but this looks like a really good haul. I thought Bauer was the #1 guy in the draft two years ago. He's got his flaws, but the guy can really deal.

You've gotta consider that the Twins very recently traded Denard Span (a comparably productive player to Choo but on a better contract) for Alex Meyer, an A-ball (yet extremely talented and high upside, but still raw) pitching prospect. Now the Indians turn Choo and three spare parts for Trevor Bauer (a near MLB, top 10 overall prospect in minors) and Drew Stubbs -- either the Twins really love Alex Meyer (which I would understand) or they're probably a little upset they didn't get more than just Meyer for Span.

I guess I'm really surprised the D'Backs took Trevor Bauer 3rd overall about 18 months ago and are ready to bail on him already for a Double-A/Triple-A SS prospect that is talented but far from a sure thing and a couple spare parts (Sipp and Anderson)? What the hell is Arizona thinking? Do they know something about Bauer that we don't? Is his arm about to explode? I just don't see how this makes sense for the D'Backs. Gregorius looks hardly ready for MLB. I saw some tapes of him and he looks like an impressive upside talent, but MLB ready starting pitching prospects that miss MLB bats are valuable commodities.

Even throwing out guys like Shaw or Albers or Stubbs (although I think he's a good buy low), getting Trevor Bauer for Choo alone is very nice. I love Bauer. CA seemed to extract a good deal of value out of him by involving other teams' assets. I mean, Bauer is a risky SP prospect and could show up to Arizona in March and need major arm surgery (delivery, high work load) but whatever. He's a real good pitching prospect. I don't get this for the D'Backs -- their baseball people must LOVE Gregorius.

Agreed.

Weren't there some stories about Bauer to rubbing some of Arizona's higher-ups the wrong way? Kid seems quite unconventional in all aspects.

That said, I think the DBacks figured they have more high upside arms in the pipeline and would bet on Bauer being inconsistent or ready for injury. I also think they may have focused too much on what they don't have instead of what they do. All in all, Arizona's going backwards at the moment, especially if they trade Upton for anything less than a Profar type of talent.

They wanted to change his long toss regimen & he balked. Something on the order of "You knew my routine when you drafted me, I did it through the minors, & now you want me to change?". Not a quote but something along those lines. He was probably being stubborn but look at his results. Hard to argue.

[martyinnewyork]

To make myself feel better about the Stephen Wright trade, I picture the Diamondback's saying "you don't get Bauer unless you throw in Lars Anderson!!!"

[Rocky55]

The Big Question:

Who's #1, Bauer or Lindor????

[timdav]

A minor thing: with Raffy Perez released and Sipp traded...the Indians have no lefty in the pen in 2013. Looks like Hagadone has a clear shot, huh?

And, with the Indians still holding on to A-Cab and Chris Perez (for now)....another trade could develop.

All in all, give the Tribe FO credit. Seems like potentially a good trade for the Indians.

I met Tony Sipp a couple times at Indians/media promotions, and thought he was a great guy. Certainly wish him and others traded the best of luck in their new environments, and welcome our new Indians!

[Rocky55]

To make myself feel better about the Stephen Wright trade, I picture the Diamondback's saying "you don't get Bauer unless you throw in Lars Anderson!!!"

No Lars=Deal Breaker.

[Hermie13]

The Big Question:

Who's #1, Bauer or Lindor????

A good debate....I'd say Lindor though I'm probably bias as I liked Lindor more than Bauer in the draft even.

[BrianM]

The Big Question:

Who's #1, Bauer or Lindor????

Good question. FOR starter or GG caliber SS who can hit?

Those seem to be the most valuable commodities in the game.

I'm happy. I'm gonna go get a cookie to celebrate.

[Hermie13]

A minor thing: with Raffy Perez released and Sipp traded...the Indians have no lefty in the pen in 2013. Looks like Hagadone has a clear shot, huh?

And, with the Indians still holding on to A-Cab and Chris Perez (for now)....another trade could develop.

All in all, give the Tribe FO credit. Seems like potentially a good trade for the Indians.

I met Tony Sipp a couple times at Indians/media promotions, and thought he was a great guy. Certainly wish him and others traded the best of luck in their new environments, and welcome our new Indians!

Scott Barnes is still around had had some bouts of success (though lots of rough patches as well). I couldn't see Huff winning a rotation job before getting Bauer and now really can't so maybe he's transitioned to the pen as well?


Agree on Sipp. Never met him but in interviews and the promotions he seemed like a good guy. He and Donald both.

[homerawayfromhome]

Bauer was 9 on BA's list and 5 on MLB.com. Bauer is the new number 1 and suddenly the system feels deeper. Is it me or with one swoop did the 40 man roster just get a lot more talented?

[JP_Frost]

Shaw has a great cutter, so perhaps he can be seen as effective against lefties. There are always lefthanded relievers out there ready to be picked up.

[Hermie13]

Something to think about with Bauer....do you start him in AAA even if he has a good spring??

Only made 4 big league starts and only 21 days of big league service time....leaving him in AAA til mid-May means he goes from being a free agent after 2018 to after 2019 (at the earliest)....

[A.Zajac]

The Big Question:

Who's #1, Bauer or Lindor????

Bauer. Not as close as people think. Plus pitching more valuable.

Something to think about with Bauer....do you start him in AAA even if he has a good spring??

Only made 4 big league starts and only 21 days of big league service time....leaving him in AAA til mid-May means he goes from being a free agent after 2018 to after 2019 (at the earliest)....

Think this depends what the Tribe does the rest of the off-season. If we add another SP, he could start down there. As it stands now, I say Cleveland bound.

[JP_Frost]

Definately something to think about. Though I'm not sure it will go over well with some of the fans. Personally, I'd do it. Tell the press that he needs some time to adjust and that we need to take a look at a guy like Jeanmar Gomez before deciding to demote him as a career AAAA player.

[homerawayfromhome]

One lefty reliever the Tribe could look at is Tom Gorzelanny who was non-tendered by the Nats.

I'm sure the Tribe will be fielding some phone calls with their new found bullpen depth.

[BrianM]

Couple more DBacks fan reactions:

If Kevin Towers weren’t mormon I would suspect he bought tons of beer, drank it, and then answered Antonetti’s call. “Gregorious? Like gregarious? That’s sure is a funny name. Name your price.”

it has been revealed that Kevin Tower is secretly a hardcore Giants fan
and he will do anything to prevent us from being better than the Giants

And now we know
Where Mark Grace’s drinking problem comes from.

We could have jarrod parker and trevor bauer right now
But we have Trevor cahill and didi freakin gregorius

And not JUST Bauer..
For the other two relievers, we basically get one reliever in return.

arizona A's
Somebody on Twitter named them
the Athletibacks and the Diamondetics.

Bauer wouldn't fit in with the team
He’s not fat, he’s not a former Padre, he’s not a reliever, he’s not a utility infielder, he’s not old, he doesn’t suck.
Obviously he had to go.

And Lars Anderson?? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?????

[OhioBaseball]

Something to think about with Bauer....do you start him in AAA even if he has a good spring??

Only made 4 big league starts and only 21 days of big league service time....leaving him in AAA til mid-May means he goes from being a free agent after 2018 to after 2019 (at the earliest)....

Coming from someone that really likes him, there's only so many bullets in that guy's arm. If he's ready out of spring training, put him on the MLB team. Pitchers like Bauer can flame out after a few years -- if the Indians get 4 years of 200 IP from a healthy Bauer with his current stuff (a Tim Lincecum-like career progression), they should be very content. I love him, but am being realistic.

Good chance Bauer is nothing near the pitcher he is today in 2018. You've got to get it while the getting is good with guys like this.

[GeronimoSon]

...{Bauer} wouldn't fit in with the team.. He’s not fat, he’s not a former Padre, he’s not a reliever, he’s not a utility infielder, he’s not old, he doesn’t suck. Obviously he had to go....

This sort of catches the emotions about the trade from the DBax fan's perspective in one fell swoooop...

[Hermie13]

Another RF option the Tribe could maybe look at (if Swisher or Ross don't happen) and one that would replace Choo well IMO....David Dejesus from the Cubs. Poor man's Choo last year....9 HRs, 7 SBs (though 8caught), .350 OBP....much, much better against righties than lefties (.826 OPS vs .438 OPS). Wouldn't think the Cubs would have 'that' high a price on him...though after what Choo got, never know.

Actually think DeJesus may have been a better fit in Cincy than Choo as he'd have been a nice platoon guy with Stubbs and actually played CF the last couple years....

[BrianM]

Something to think about with Bauer....do you start him in AAA even if he has a good spring??

Only made 4 big league starts and only 21 days of big league service time....leaving him in AAA til mid-May means he goes from being a free agent after 2018 to after 2019 (at the earliest)....

Coming from someone that really likes him, there's only so many bullets in that guy's arm. If he's ready out of spring training, put him on the MLB team. Pitchers like Bauer can flame out after a few years -- if the Indians get 4 years of 200 IP from a healthy Bauer with his current stuff (a Tim Lincecum-like career progression), they should be very content. I love him, but am being realistic.

Good chance Bauer is nothing near the pitcher he is today in 2018. You've got to get it while the getting is good with guys like this.

I agree. I know the Lincecum comparisons have been around since Bauer was drafted, but to be fair, Lincecum's decline seems like it is more mental and possibly drug related (he has failed a number of tests for pot and admits to using it) than decline in skill. If you watched him come out of the bullpen in the playoffs, you can see he still has the electric stuff that won him multiple CY's.

Overall I still agree though, and think he will always be an injury risk and could decline at any moment. Lots of these reports on Bauer mention how much of a mystery his future is.

[Rocky55]

Something to think about with Bauer....do you start him in AAA even if he has a good spring??

Only made 4 big league starts and only 21 days of big league service time....leaving him in AAA til mid-May means he goes from being a free agent after 2018 to after 2019 (at the earliest)....

Coming from someone that really likes him, there's only so many bullets in that guy's arm. If he's ready out of spring training, put him on the MLB team. Pitchers like Bauer can flame out after a few years -- if the Indians get 4 years of 200 IP from a healthy Bauer with his current stuff (a Tim Lincecum-like career progression), they should be very content. I love him, but am being realistic.

Good chance Bauer is nothing near the pitcher he is today in 2018. You've got to get it while the getting is good with guys like this.

That's what I was thinking. This is not your normal soon to be 22 yr old. Lots of 150+ pitch games at UCLA. Apparently we're trying to compete in '13. He should open in the starting rotation.

[GoTribe028]

Not to break away from the excitment of the 3 team deal earlier tonight, but the Dodgers made a solid pickup.

Dodgers got Skip Schumaker from the Cardinals

[GeronimoSon]

Not to break away from the excitment of the 3 team deal earlier tonight, but the Dodgers made a solid pickup.

Dodgers got Skip Schumaker from the Cardinals

...and opens the door to a trade with the Cardinals & Indians if there is a match for Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal, Joe Kelly or Lance Lind.. with Asdrubal being the bait...

[GoTribe028]

Not to break away from the excitment of the 3 team deal earlier tonight, but the Dodgers made a solid pickup.

Dodgers got Skip Schumaker from the Cardinals

...and opens the door to a trade with the Cardinals & Indians if there is a match for Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal, Joe Kelly or Lance Lind.. with Asdrubal being the bait...

Thats if the Indians still are looking to move Asdrubal. No reason they wouldn't now, but just saying.

[Edible14]

Not to break away from the excitment of the 3 team deal earlier tonight, but the Dodgers made a solid pickup.

Dodgers got Skip Schumaker from the Cardinals

...and opens the door to a trade with the Cardinals & Indians if there is a match for Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal, Joe Kelly or Lance Lind.. with Asdrubal being the bait...

Thats if the Indians still are looking to move Asdrubal. No reason they wouldn't now, but just saying.

I'm perfectly fine moving Asdrubal and some relievers (and maybe some back-end starters). Question is "who do we trade those parts to" and "what would we want to get". The team that immediately comes to mind is the Pirates.

[Hermie13]

Not to break away from the excitment of the 3 team deal earlier tonight, but the Dodgers made a solid pickup.

Dodgers got Skip Schumaker from the Cardinals

...and opens the door to a trade with the Cardinals & Indians if there is a match for Matt Adams, Trevor Rosenthal, Joe Kelly or Lance Lind.. with Asdrubal being the bait...

Thats if the Indians still are looking to move Asdrubal. No reason they wouldn't now, but just saying.

I'm perfectly fine moving Asdrubal and some relievers (and maybe some back-end starters). Question is "who do we trade those parts to" and "what would we want to get". The team that immediately comes to mind is the Pirates.

Pittsburgh makes sense, though they do seem to like Barmes and his defense. I think the A's could still jump into the mix as well for Asdrubal.

[Hermie13]

With Anderson now gone too, one less potential DFA for Reynolds. With the Indians adding 2 RH relievers today....wonder if a guy like Hermann may end up the odd man out? Maybe Blake Wood if his deal isn't guaranteed? Adding Bauer maybe they let a guy like Huff go but with losing Sipp you only have 4 lefties out of 23 pitches in Huff, Hags, Barnes, and House (pretty crazy IMO). Another trade coming tomorrow??

Looks like the Tribe has 23 pitches on the 40 man after today and 17 (not counting Reynolds) position players.

[GoTribe028]

With Anderson now gone too, one less potential DFA for Reynolds. With the Indians adding 2 RH relievers today....wonder if a guy like Hermann may end up the odd man out? Maybe Blake Wood if his deal isn't guaranteed? Adding Bauer maybe they let a guy like Huff go but with losing Sipp you only have 4 lefties out of 23 pitches in Huff, Hags, Barnes, and House (pretty crazy IMO). Another trade coming tomorrow??

Looks like the Tribe has 23 pitches on the 40 man after today and 17 (not counting Reynolds) position players.

I guess take your pick between Chris McGuiness, Cord Phelps, Thomas Neal, and Mike McDade.

Would rather keep McDade around since he can at least be sent to the minors unlike McGuiness but there has to be something they liked about him to take him in the rule v.

If I had to guess who's off the 40 (barring another trade) is McDade.

[ironmike]

Not sure about the pitching we received, but the Indians HAVE NOT upgraded their offense one bit. Two players, Reynolds and Stubbs with poor K-BB ratios, not impressive at all.

Still time to get some real offensive baseball talent, but these two guys won't help our offense score runs consistently at all. Two players they should in theory have stayed away from, but good free agents won't come here. This REBUILD won't go from a bad team to a good team, they'll need to get back to mediocrity first.

Proposed acquiring Nick Swisher two years ago before his named surfaced on the local scene. His wife is an actress, he likes the big stage, right now he's playing our offer against offers. 30-70 chance we get Nick Swisher here. If the team was winning then he would have already signed.

PS Tony, you got your Pomeranz prospect back in Bauer.

[GeronimoSon]

An interesting posting that shows just how screwed up baseball organizations can be:

..Wish Jocketty would have traded Gregorius straight up for Bauer.. Then trade Leake and Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Donald. Would have been an incredible day for the Reds. Think of the Reds rotation depth....

So, instead of the Indians getting Bauer ++, the Reds would have.. So, when someone asks who got fleeced in this deal, flipping a coin over the DBax (obviously for the loss of their #1 prospect) and the Reds (for being used as stooges in this deal) wouldn't be far off target.. At least if you believe Albers + Shaw = Leake..

[dazindiansfanuk]

the Indians HAVE NOT upgraded their offense one bit. Two players, Reynolds and Stubbs with poor K-BB ratios, not impressive at all.

Forgetting the K ratios for now, the Indians have upgraded two positions and downgraded one, for the time being. (for what it's worth Reynolds has pretty good walk rates though).

1B - Kotchman to Reynolds - Upgrade

LF - Damon/Duncan/Cunningham to Stubbs (although really Stubbs will likely be in CF and Brantley LF) - Upgrade (and big defensive upgrade too)

RF - Choo to ??????? - This is the question, who do they now bring in to play RF?

As it stands, your overall premise that the offense isn't improved is probably right - the downgrade to the in-house options in RF probably isn't made up for by the upgrades at LF & 1B

So, I'm hoping they have more irons in the fire and plans for how they're going to fill that RF hole. If it's Swisher, then that's a big upgrade overall to the offense as I think you can say he's even a slight upgrade over Choo.

If it's Cody Ross, you lose a little in RF but gain more overall at the other two positions, so still a win.

But we'll need to find out and wait and see.

Still, the key to this deal (in it's 'stand alone' sense) was improving the long-term prognosis for the pitching staff - which they did.

[daingean]

The Big Question:

Who's #1, Bauer or Lindor????

Bauer is number 1 without question. He's MLB ready (has already made his debut - I was there in Atlanta that night). While I think Lindor is a top prospect, he's only made it to A ball. Too much can happen to de-rail a prospect between A ball and MLB. Plus Bauer has FOR stuff.

[GeronimoSon]

Musings with a purpose..

Yeah..the trades and acquisitions were made for the sole purpose of upgrading the offense.. Stubbs and Reynolds, if they get 500-550 AB's during the 2013 season should be able to add approximately 185 runs scored, drive in 155, add around 50 home runs while contributing 380 K's while compiling an aggregate OPS of around .755. This is opposed to Casey Kotchman and Shin Soo Choo who would would contribute 135 runs scored, drive in 130 runs, add 30 homers, while contributing 195 K's with an aggregate OPS of around .740. In short, the Offense should be upgraded by around fifty runs. Sprinkle 50 runs around the games, and that might equate to six or seven more W's from the improved offense, alone. (btw.. K-rates are not a direct reflection of teams ability to score or not score runs)

The "Phillies Plan" (PP) of trading Vance Worley and "prospects" (Trevor May/Dominic Brown?) for the services of Asdrubal Cabrera, who they would move to 3B, not 2B... This idea seems to make some sense. If the value Asdrubal has is diminished due to his lack of range (range factor being the deficiency most often cited as his defensive weakness), then moving to 3B would make a lot of sense. The hot corner requires cat quick reactions, which is Asdrubal's forte'. The Dodgers would be an interesting team to discuss the PP with? They have about five guys that would look spectacular with Chief Wahoo on his sleeve..

Kevin Towers has traded for two SS's this off season. One of them better be able to play. The posters on the AzSnakePit have voiced more anger towards him than even RustyMike could imagine.. even when he's wrong, again..

The 40-Man Roster situation is going to get squeezed soon. Mark Reynolds hasn't officially signed & it is 'beneficial' to the Indians that they're waiting for a little bit, but, don't let this linger. If CA has another magic trick to show us, pulling a "Bauer out of his hat" was pretty good, how did he do that?.. SOON would be a good plan unless the Indians don't care if one of McDade or Fedroff loses their roster spot..

[daingean]

An interesting posting that shows just how screwed up baseball organizations can be:

..Wish Jocketty would have traded Gregorius straight up for Bauer.. Then trade Leake and Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Donald. Would have been an incredible day for the Reds. Think of the Reds rotation depth....

So, instead of the Indians getting Bauer ++, the Reds would have.. So, when someone asks who got fleeced in this deal, flipping a coin over the DBax (obviously for the loss of their #1 prospect) and the Reds (for being used as stooges in this deal) wouldn't be far off target.. At least if you believe Albers + Shaw = Leake..

I like the 2 arms in the BP. I think the game has changed a lot and BP arms are so much more important than 5-10-20 years ago. Pitchers now are going 5 or 6 innings and consider that "doing their job" (not the pitchers' idea but coaches). Give me a top bullpen and it can overcome a weakness in the rotation.

[ironmike]

Journeyman players don't make a difference. We got two offensive players no other team wanted. Reynolds has been moved by 3 teams, Stubbs is a hard head per Jocketty ..."maybe a different voice will help him." Key word is maybe.

These guys are FAR from professional hitters that this team needs to compete.

Let me ask, did Russell Branyan make an impact the 12 different times we had him? Hell no. Either will these guys.

Going into this season, if you want to WIN, the team needed three professional hitters. Professional hitters have better than avg. K-BB ratios and the ability with other intangibles to score runs. They deliver in big games against good pitchers where guys like Reynolds and Stubbs fold like cheap card tables.

All depends if you want to WIN or are blind, pretend you are an authority and just get excited because your favorite team made a few acquisitions.

There is a way to build a winner, it starts with not caving in, panicking and obtaining players no other team wants. This is all the result of a lousy business plan, poor evaluation and terrible drafts. What is clear is this organization has hit rock bottom and is now HOPING for mediocrity before they ever get to the top, if they ever do.

Seen this all before. Reynolds is Branyan and Jim Gentile all over again, you won't WIN with these types of players. Bauer I don't know about, but he was traded for a minor league SS with potential. Would we have traded CC for a guy like this when CC was 20 years old? Reality says no, so Bauer has got to have issues and is not a sure thing.

[GhostofTedCox]

Thumbs up on the trade.

When the off season started; of Cabrerra, Perez, Choo; I thought Choo would be the least valuable.
Today, we have one of the best prospects in baseball for him. A controllable FOR starter in exchange for a FA Boras client in waiting.
We included Donald and Anderson only to clear room on the 40-man. Sipp has talent, and will be missed. But is replaceable.

Now as for Subbs. He does have a lot of speed. He and Kipnis should provide a lot of SB's. (provided they get on base).
But here's the real question: Can Stubbs and Reynolds co-exist in the same lineup for long? That's a lot of nothing going on.

[Rocky55]

Gotta say I'm liking all of these moves so far.

Reynolds a big improvement over that Black Hole of Kotchman. Kotchman was just frickin terrible. Reynolds adds power & hits RH. Good add.

If Asdrubal stays we upgraded UIF big time. Aviles helps in so many areas especially if Asdrubal stays. We lose nothing by resting Asdrubal a couple of times a week, which might help to prevent Droobs' annual late season swoon. Aviles hits lefties well & could give days off to Kip & Chiz who struggle against LHP's. Kipnis also wore down late last year. I know he doesn't want to sit but it helps over the course of the season. Plus, any injuries at 2B, SS, or 3b & we're covered.

Stubbs should help with his glove & his legs & his ability to hit lefties.

Bauer was the big get in our biggest area of need. ML ready potential FOR pitcher who misses bats after a Chris Sale like rise through the minors.

Best thing is that if they do in fact decide to trade Asdrubal, we still have our best trade piece and we haven't spent any money yet.

[homerawayfromhome]

A small note.... Jack Hannahan signed a 1 yr / $2M deal with the Reds.

[GeronimoSon]

Gotta say I'm liking all of these moves so far.

Reynolds a big improvement over that Black Hole of Kotchman. Kotchman was just frickin terrible. Reynolds adds power & hits RH. Good add.

If Asdrubal stays we upgraded UIF big time. Aviles helps in so many areas especially if Asdrubal stays. We lose nothing by resting Asdrubal a couple of times a week, which might help to prevent Droobs' annual late season swoon. Aviles hits lefties well & could give days off to Kip & Chiz who struggle against LHP's. Kipnis also wore down late last year. I know he doesn't want to sit but it helps over the course of the season. Plus, any injuries at 2B, SS, or 3b & we're covered.

Stubbs should help with his glove & his legs & his ability to hit lefties.

Bauer was the big get in our biggest area of need. ML ready potential FOR pitcher who misses bats after a Chris Sale like rise through the minors.

Best thing is that if they do in fact decide to trade Asdrubal, we still have our best trade piece and we haven't spent any money yet.

Quick note: the Reds have signed Jack Hannahan for one year & $ 2 MM. Nice signing for them...

Yes, the net salary difference in the trade is zero...which still says that the Indians have a budget of $ 10 - $ 14 MM per year to acquire another player. If the Indians just want to buy a FA, the market has two OF'ers that could be of interest: Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn. Both of them fit in this profile.

Personally, I'd prefer the trade route. It can be more certain and/or less expensive. The Cardinals just moved a utility guy Skip Schumaker, so, having Droobs there would make sense if the Indians went there. The Mariners remain a very attractive target for a trade, as well..