MLB Hot Stove

[GoTribe028]

OH MY

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Rays will send James Shields and Wade Davis to #Royals for Wil Myers and other prospects.

[Hermie13]

OH MY

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Rays will send James Shields and Wade Davis to #Royals for Wil Myers and other prospects.

wow! Big move by the Royals getting Shields. Davis is a nice grab as well.

And depending on other specs, could be a great move by the Rays.

[GoTribe028]

OH MY

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Rays will send James Shields and Wade Davis to #Royals for Wil Myers and other prospects.

wow! Big move by the Royals getting Shields. Davis is a nice grab as well.

And depending on other specs, could be a great move by the Rays.

it could be big for both ends here. Meyers is absolutely the type of prospect that the Rays would move Shields for, but with Davis going to KC as well, I wonder what else the Royals are kicking in

[Hermie13]

OH MY

@Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Rays will send James Shields and Wade Davis to #Royals for Wil Myers and other prospects.

wow! Big move by the Royals getting Shields. Davis is a nice grab as well.

And depending on other specs, could be a great move by the Rays.

it could be big for both ends here. Meyers is absolutely the type of prospect that the Rays would move Shields for, but with Davis going to KC as well, I wonder what else the Royals are kicking in

If I'm the Rays, I'd have asked for Starling in there but have a hard time seeing the Royals moving both he and Myers. Had the report not said "prospects" I'd have said maybe Salvador Perez to the Rays. Maybe Odrizzi or Mondesi?


Big move as this takes one big candidate away from the Rangers and the D'backs (both said to be very interested in Sheilds). Maybe gets Upton talks going again?

[GoTribe028]

Retweeted by Heyman

@TBTimes_Rays: Huge #Rays trade is Shields AND Davis (and PTBNL) to #Royals for OF Myers, RHP Odorizzi, LHP Montgomery, 3B Leonard

Great return by Tampa!

[Hermie13]

Retweeted by Heyman

@TBTimes_Rays: Huge #Rays trade is Shields AND Davis (and PTBNL) to #Royals for OF Myers, RHP Odorizzi, LHP Montgomery, 3B Leonard

Great return by Tampa!

Key here is Montgomery. If he bounces back could be a huge deal for the Rays. Sounds like PTBNL could also be cash.

[GoTribe028]

Interesting takes on the trade

@robneyer: My quick take: This is the worst trade in MLB history unless Wade Davis becomes a good starter, in which case it's only the second worst.

@robneyer: Also, this is what happens when you're the Royals and you start talking to a bunch of really, really smart guys about a trade. #badidea

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Gutsy deal by Royals that will help them next two years to contend and haunt them six years from now

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Andrew Friedman and Rays will win this deal long term but Dayton Moore improves his chances to get his contract extended past 2014#shorttem

@jonmorosi: The Royals just made a desperate trade.

[BrianM]

Interesting takes on the trade

@robneyer: My quick take: This is the worst trade in MLB history unless Wade Davis becomes a good starter, in which case it's only the second worst.

@robneyer: Also, this is what happens when you're the Royals and you start talking to a bunch of really, really smart guys about a trade. #badidea

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Gutsy deal by Royals that will help them next two years to contend and haunt them six years from now

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Andrew Friedman and Rays will win this deal long term but Dayton Moore improves his chances to get his contract extended past 2014#shortterm

Considering these guys are professionals, this is weak. I think the Rays did score big, but there is a major league FOR pitcher in this deal, and he is going to KC. Myers will likely be a nice player, but he and Jake O and Montgomery have proven nothing in the majors. I would love this haul if I was TB, but to say stuff like "this is the worst trade in MLB history" is ridiculous.

[GoTribe028]

Interesting takes on the trade

@robneyer: My quick take: This is the worst trade in MLB history unless Wade Davis becomes a good starter, in which case it's only the second worst.

@robneyer: Also, this is what happens when you're the Royals and you start talking to a bunch of really, really smart guys about a trade. #badidea

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Gutsy deal by Royals that will help them next two years to contend and haunt them six years from now

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Andrew Friedman and Rays will win this deal long term but Dayton Moore improves his chances to get his contract extended past 2014#shortterm

Considering these guys are professionals, this is weak. I think the Rays did score big, but there is a major league FOR pitcher in this deal, and he is going to KC. Myers will likely be a nice player, but he and Jake O and Montgomery have proven nothing in the majors. I would love this haul if I was TB, but to say stuff like "this is the worst trade in MLB history" is ridiculous.

Like I said, interesting takes on the trade,

[Hermie13]

Interesting takes on the trade

@robneyer: My quick take: This is the worst trade in MLB history unless Wade Davis becomes a good starter, in which case it's only the second worst.

@robneyer: Also, this is what happens when you're the Royals and you start talking to a bunch of really, really smart guys about a trade. #badidea

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Gutsy deal by Royals that will help them next two years to contend and haunt them six years from now

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Andrew Friedman and Rays will win this deal long term but Dayton Moore improves his chances to get his contract extended past 2014#shortterm

Considering these guys are professionals, this is weak. I think the Rays did score big, but there is a major league FOR pitcher in this deal, and he is going to KC. Myers will likely be a nice player, but he and Jake O and Montgomery have proven nothing in the majors. I would love this haul if I was TB, but to say stuff like "this is the worst trade in MLB history" is ridiculous.

I'm with you Brian. The more I look at this I don't think the Rays made off nearly as well as at first glance. Montgomery has major issues. Odrizzi is probably just a #3 though maybe he becomes a bit more. Myers is obviously a catch but if the Rays can't fix Montgomery then they could end up with a #3 and an All-Star RFer at best. Obviously that's still a great return but that's assuming Myers pans out. Dom Brown was a can't miss and to this point has missed big. Good return for the Rays for sure, but they are taking a big risk with Montgomery here. Leonard hit well but havent seen anyone that's all that high on him.

[GeronimoSon]

huge trade by the Royals/Rays..

The Royals obtain their FOR SP in James Shields and a pretty good RP arm in Wade Davis for four minor league players including one of the best power hitting c-of'ers going in Wil Meyers. Jake Odorizzi & Mike Montgomery add to the already lengthly list of arms for the Rays who also pick up someone named Pat Leonard, a big guy with lots of power but quite a ways away from being meaningful..

Solid to spectacular trade by the Royals, imho...

[Rocky55]

Interesting takes on the trade

@robneyer: My quick take: This is the worst trade in MLB history unless Wade Davis becomes a good starter, in which case it's only the second worst.

@robneyer: Also, this is what happens when you're the Royals and you start talking to a bunch of really, really smart guys about a trade. #badidea

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Gutsy deal by Royals that will help them next two years to contend and haunt them six years from now

@JimBowdenESPNxm: Andrew Friedman and Rays will win this deal long term but Dayton Moore improves his chances to get his contract extended past 2014#shortterm

Considering these guys are professionals, this is weak. I think the Rays did score big, but there is a major league FOR pitcher in this deal, and he is going to KC. Myers will likely be a nice player, but he and Jake O and Montgomery have proven nothing in the majors. I would love this haul if I was TB, but to say stuff like "this is the worst trade in MLB history" is ridiculous.

I'm with you Brian. The more I look at this I don't think the Rays made off nearly as well as at first glance. Montgomery has major issues. Odrizzi is probably just a #3 though maybe he becomes a bit more. Myers is obviously a catch but if the Rays can't fix Montgomery then they could end up with a #3 and an All-Star RFer at best. Obviously that's still a great return but that's assuming Myers pans out. Dom Brown was a can't miss and to this point has missed big. Good return for the Rays for sure, but they are taking a big risk with Montgomery here. Leonard hit well but havent seen anyone that's all that high on him.

Agree here also. Tampa loses the CYA winner(probably) after next year, trades Shields & Davis & gets a pretty sure thing bat in exchange along with some promising but not sure thing prospects. If I'm the Rays I hang on to my pitching.

Won't say KC wins but it's not that bad IMO.

[homerawayfromhome]

Big time trade by the Rays and Royals. IF Wade Davis can pitch effectively as a SP the Royals just landed their 1 and probably 3 starters. That's three big additions (other Ervin Santana) to their rotation...but I think they could be kicking themselves for this in a few yrs if they don't extend James Shields. Now that Shields is off the map and the Dbax added McCarthy could we see the ACab to AZ deal get done? It obviously seems to rule out the Rangers sending prospects to the Rays for Shields to flip to AZ for Upton. Maybe the Tribe can work a bigger one on one deal with AZ. I'd also try to bring Oak and STL back into the picture and potentially see if the Dodgers have some interest too, bc they are said to be looking at adding either a 3b or SS. Maybe the Tribe could pull off ACab and Marson for Dee Gordon, Zach Lee and Matt Magill. That's probably a step back from where they want to go but Lee is a FOR type arm and Magill seems like he could develop into a solid starter too.

[ironmike]

Mark Reynolds?? The insanity continues.

One of the worst K-BB ratios ever, a journeyman at best, not a baseball player, no tangibles.

Horrible acquistion, but par for the course with the Indians current low level decision-makers. Would
rather see Russ Canzler and a parade of other young players get a shot at the position, anyone but
Reynolds.

Ah, the past sins of Mark Shapiro keep on haunting this team.

Another lousy acquisition.

PS As Aramis Ramirez said, players don't want to come to Cleveland, not because of the city because of the
organization. Ain't going to get better until we get a new owner. Disgusting.

[homerawayfromhome]

I'm kind of surprised by the reaction of a lot of media saying how the Rays completely fleeced the Royals. I don't think so. Shields is a stud pitcher and Wade Davis could be a reasonably good number 3 the talent is there, at worst hes a very dominate bullpen arm. For now Davis is probably the Royals 4/5th starter with Shields, Santana, Guthrie and maybe Chen / Hocheaver pitching ahead of him. Obviously the Rays felt the same about Davis when they extended him and he didnt quite pitch himself out of the rotation with the Rays who were loaded with SP.
The Royals are a legit contender now for at least 2 yrs, IMO they just forced the AL Central window of contention wide open. Call me crazy but if the Tribe somehow landed Swisher and Jackson and moved ACab for some young pitching I could see the Tribe being serious contenders for the AL Central too.
The trade seems to kill the Shields to AZ talk and may kill the 3/4 talks, which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. This could force the ACab trade down to a one on one trade between the Tribe and Dbax IF it even goes down.

[daingean]

I'm okay with the Reynolds signing as long it is not the primary move this off season. Reynolds brings 1 thing the tribe needs and that is power especially from the right side. I know his SO total is high but he also walks plenty (in the 80 range). The most important aspect of this signing is how teams will pitch to the guys in front of him (primarily Santana). Sometimes you have to step back and look at the macro (see how a signing affects the entire lineup) instead of the micro (focusing on 1 or 2 stats).

I wasn't real excited about Youk as I think he's on the decline.

[GeronimoSon]

I'm okay with the Reynolds signing as long it is not the primary move this off season. Reynolds brings 1 thing the tribe needs and that is power especially from the right side. I know his SO total is high but he also walks plenty (in the 80 range). The most important aspect of this signing is how teams will pitch to the guys in front of him (primarily Santana). Sometimes you have to step back and look at the macro (see how a signing affects the entire lineup) instead of the micro (focusing on 1 or 2 stats).

I wasn't real excited about Youk as I think he's on the decline.

+1 No doubt, the way that teams will pitch to the batters immediately in front of Mark Reynolds, when he's seeing the ball well, will change. The biggest beneficiary could be Carlos Santana, a notorious FB hitter..

[GhostofTedCox]

I give the Reynolds signing a thumbs up. It's easy to call this guy Russell Branyan 2.0. However, as recently as 2009 he had 44 HR and over 100 RBI. Yes, he K's a tremendous amount. But he gets a lot of BB's too. He's on a 1-year make good contract. Plenty of incentive to have a good season. Bill James 2013 projection for him is .231/.331/.463 with 32 HR's. I'll take that.

He is NOT the centerpiece.But a middle of the order that has Choo, Swisher, Santana, Reynolds, (plus a DH) doesn't sound too bad.

[GeronimoSon]

I'm kind of surprised by the reaction of a lot of media saying how the Rays completely fleeced the Royals. I don't think so. Shields is a stud pitcher and Wade Davis could be a reasonably good number 3 the talent is there, at worst hes a very dominate bullpen arm. For now Davis is probably the Royals 4/5th starter with Shields, Santana, Guthrie and maybe Chen / Hocheaver pitching ahead of him. Obviously the Rays felt the same about Davis when they extended him and he didnt quite pitch himself out of the rotation with the Rays who were loaded with SP.
The Royals are a legit contender now for at least 2 yrs, IMO they just forced the AL Central window of contention wide open. Call me crazy but if the Tribe somehow landed Swisher and Jackson and moved ACab for some young pitching I could see the Tribe being serious contenders for the AL Central too.
The trade seems to kill the Shields to AZ talk and may kill the 3/4 talks, which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. This could force the ACab trade down to a one on one trade between the Tribe and Dbax IF it even goes down.

Yeah, there is always a certain degree of "doubt" when there is a trade of established players for unproven prospects (See CC Sabathia Trade, Cliff Lee trade, others). Of the guys the Rays obtained in this trade, only Odorizzi may contribute to the Rays at the ML level this year. This leaves the door still wide open for the Rays to consider a short term trade for a talented OF'er..perhaps one with an affordable one year contract, one who hits .364 when playing against the Rays with a plus 1.000 OPS and plenty of xbh's (1/3rd), likes Kimche, and wants to play for a team that has a chance to win.. I'm certain a trade of Choo along with David Huff for Chris Archer and Mikie Mahtook would solve a LOT of the Rays' immediate offense problems. Might even exchange out Archer for Jake Odorizzi (a projected # 3 type SP that could be in the ML's by September). The Indians might convince the Rays to package Taylor Guerrieri and Mike Montgomery along with Mahtook for Choo & Huff or Choo and Barnes? IDK, a decent fit is there. The question becomes, are the Rays enamored of Odorizzi/Montgomery/Leonard that they wouldn't flip them?

[homerawayfromhome]

Daingean,

Agreed the Reynolds signing is good for the lineup but needs to be followed up with at the very least Cody Ross. Ross and Reynolds would add two RH bats with some pop, although I'd pref to see the Tribe land Swisher at a reasonable price. Could be part of the reason the Tribe moved on from Youkilis or they felt they weren't likely to sign Youkilis made a best offer and decided to move on when they felt that he was dragging his feet to see if he could get other teams involved.

Another thought the Tribe could have decided to try to save a little cash and sign Reynolds giving themselves some wiggle room to up the ante to Nick Swisher OR they could try to upgrade the rotation by trying to land a piece maybe one / two of Jackson, Marcum, Liriano, Villanueva, Matsuzaka, Pelfery, Corriea, Parra, Cook, Hernandez, Kazmir, Webb, Harden.

Is it me or are the Indians being a bit more open about things. I mean they were linked to Reynolds at the Winter Mtgs and even early yesterday morning I think Ken Rosenthal was saying the Tribe were looking to Reynolds as a second option. Just seems like there's been a little more info. out on them than in recent yrs. It could be a mild change of approach by the FO to generate interest in fans OR it could be they were simply active or noisy at the Winter Mtgs bc of the potential trade chips they carried into the offseason.

A final note the Shields, Davis deal may take TB out of the equation to make a move for SSChoo. I just not sure we will see them being willing to move another pitcher or two that it would take to get the deal done. Although the Rays certainly still have pitching depth having acq. talented arms in the pkg for Davis and Shields. They did add some payroll flexibility which would allow them to add yet another bat to their lineup, so maybe a deal like Choo for Odorizzi or Archer straight up isn't out of the question.

[GeronimoSon]

I give the Reynolds signing a thumbs up. It's easy to call this guy Russell Branyan 2.0. However, as recently as 2009 he had 44 HR and over 100 RBI. Yes, he K's a tremendous amount. But he gets a lot of BB's too. He's on a 1-year make good contract. Plenty of incentive to have a good season. Bill James 2013 projection for him is .231/.331/.463 with 32 HR's. I'll take that.

He is NOT the centerpiece.But a middle of the order that has Choo, Swisher, Santana, Reynolds, (plus a DH) doesn't sound too bad.

Oh!!, the optimism of spring hath shown it's pretty head.. and it's name is Mark Reynolds????

I don't think so. Mark Reynolds has shown a propensity to hit homers, get on base and play good defense around the bag at 1B. He has some versatility. Can play 3B in the event Lonnie bombs and McDade / Lars / Canzler show they can be better than a .220 hitting limited power group of 1B / DH's.

is this a "Thumbs Up" kind of move???? Not really. This is the kind of move we've seen the Indians make in mid/late February to add warm bodies to the roster in the past. With the attitude about "...not wanting to come to Cleveland, they're a screwed up franchise..", this may be the best results in free agency (and should be) for all of us hunkered down in our wigwams for the winter.

We shall see.. or better yet, this move.. is a "wait and see". It's not a thumbs up or down. It's a "meh, could be something" kind of move.. <shrugs>

[GeronimoSon]

Daingean,

Agreed the Reynolds signing is good for the lineup but needs to be followed up with at the very least Cody Ross. Ross and Reynolds would add two RH bats with some pop, although I'd pref to see the Tribe land Swisher at a reasonable price. Could be part of the reason the Tribe moved on from Youkilis or they felt they weren't likely to sign Youkilis made a best offer and decided to move on when they felt that he was dragging his feet to see if he could get other teams involved.

Another thought the Tribe could have decided to try to save a little cash and sign Reynolds giving themselves some wiggle room to up the ante to Nick Swisher OR they could try to upgrade the rotation by trying to land a piece maybe one / two of Jackson, Marcum, Liriano, Villanueva, Matsuzaka, Pelfery, Corriea, Parra, Cook, Hernandez, Kazmir, Webb, Harden.

Is it me or are the Indians being a bit more open about things. I mean they were linked to Reynolds at the Winter Mtgs and even early yesterday morning I think Ken Rosenthal was saying the Tribe were looking to Reynolds as a second option. Just seems like there's been a little more info. out on them than in recent yrs. It could be a mild change of approach by the FO to generate interest in fans OR it could be they were simply active or noisy at the Winter Mtgs bc of the potential trade chips they carried into the offseason.

A final note the Shields, Davis deal may take TB out of the equation to make a move for SSChoo. I just not sure we will see them being willing to move another pitcher or two that it would take to get the deal done. Although the Rays certainly still have pitching depth having acq. talented arms in the pkg for Davis and Shields. They did add some payroll flexibility which would allow them to add yet another bat to their lineup, so maybe a deal like Choo for Odorizzi or Archer straight up isn't out of the question.

Couple of responses to your comments, homer...

The extension of the lineup with Reynolds is definitely a plus. I agree that by adding an additional bat along with Reynolds such as Cody Ross, this would further extend the lineup.

The Information Superhighway/Twitter World/Blogs/Etc is not the direct cause of "information" leaking, imho, it's the agents of the players that have become unbelievably capable of exploiting these pathways of information to bias GM and FO types to give their client's a strategic advantage. And!! the information is INSTANTLY disseminated...

Addition of another pitcher: has to be done anyways. The group you've selected all have merit and warts. The question becomes will it be one, two or none?

Regarding the SSChoo sailing, I humbly disagree...

[GeronimoSon]

It looks like the Yankees are going to bring Ichiro back to the Bronx for 2013.. Good !. the Phillies were said to be "courting" him and now have to change their sights to a different plan. With the Addition of Ben Revere, along with the acquisition of a once solid 3B (and hopefully still) in Michael Young, the Phillies may now turn their attention to one of two potential acquisitions

1. A middle to back of the rotation starter who is fairly cost controlled and or
2. the acquisition of a better corner outfielder than either or Darrin Ruf, Dominic Brown and or John Mayberry Jr.

Sounds like a pretty good fit for the Indians... coughchoocough....

[GoTribe028]

Another thought the Tribe could have decided to try to save a little cash and sign Reynolds giving themselves some wiggle room to up the ante to Nick Swisher OR they could try to upgrade the rotation by trying to land a piece maybe one / two of Jackson, Marcum, Liriano, Villanueva, Matsuzaka, Pelfery, Corriea, Parra, Cook, Hernandez, Kazmir, Webb, Harden.

Is it me or are the Indians being a bit more open about things. I mean they were linked to Reynolds at the Winter Mtgs and even early yesterday morning I think Ken Rosenthal was saying the Tribe were looking to Reynolds as a second option. Just seems like there's been a little more info. out on them than in recent yrs. It could be a mild change of approach by the FO to generate interest in fans OR it could be they were simply active or noisy at the Winter Mtgs bc of the potential trade chips they carried into the offseason.

Jackson & Pelfrey or Villanueva. There are a few interesting names there but I don't see any of them ever being "upgrades" even on this staff. Kazmir would be worth taking a flier on. Webb & Harden too but I'm not sure if they're even throwing and probably wouldn't be worth considering right now.

Kenny Rosenthal addressed this yesterday in one of his posts. He mentioned that some other club exects have gotten the impression that ownership wants Anttonetti to make a splash this offseason (for lack of a better term).

I can buy that to a degree. There also is the fact that there is a little extra revenue coming in with the sale of STO and other TV rights and such. Combine that with the fact that I'm sure that winning is a goal of there's. We as fans stand to gain some from this potentially. Bigger names for some of the casual fans, a better product overall & the fact that its baseball. If the Indians FO can bring in a few more pieces to help the club now and maybe move an asset or two for other pieces, fantastic.

[GeronimoSon]

The Mariners most visited blog has an interesting article regarding potential deals and results to date of this season's hot stove.

Here's the link: http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/11/30/th ... -term-fix/

In the comments section, these fans seem to believe:
1. Travis Hafner is a decent risk to sign with the full understanding that he is a DH only & will only play half the season.

2. Most of the M's fans being 'heard" on this site are of the opinion that trading for a player on a one year contract (Shin-soo Choo) for a top notch prospect (Paxton) is not worth it.

3. Some of the M's fans believe that if the M's acquire Choo for someone like Maurer, then when you add the draft pick (30 - 40 range in the 2014 draft) then a trade starts to look a LOT better.

4. Many of the M's fans are of the belief that because the Indians are asking too much for Asdrubal Cabrera, they'll ask too much for Shin-soo Choo

There are about 30 to 50 comments.. all pretty decent. Even those that are critical are, at the very least informative. None of these posters are whining and crying (and are repeating their whining and crying over and over) about the owner needing to be changed or the M's Front Office being a bunch of spread sheet geeks with no baseball background...

[homerawayfromhome]

Brandon Maurer and Stephen Romero or Carter Capps for Choo would seem like a more realistic option to me. I doubt the Tribe would net Paxton from the Ms unless they were sending ACab to the Ms in the deal but Paxton would appear to be an ideal return target. But landing a cpl pieces like Maurer and Romero or Capps would meet some needs for the Tribe. I ow the Tribe has a ton depth in the bullpen but acq. a young talented controllable arm like Capps would allow the Tribe to move another piece in the pen at some point.

[GeronimoSon]

Brandon Maurer and Stephen Romero or Carter Capps for Choo would seem like a more realistic option to me. I doubt the Tribe would net Paxton from the Ms unless they were sending ACab to the Ms in the deal but Paxton would appear to be an ideal return target. But landing a cpl pieces like Maurer and Romero or Capps would meet some needs for the Tribe. I ow the Tribe has a ton depth in the bullpen but acq. a young talented controllable arm like Capps would allow the Tribe to move another piece in the pen at some point.

Capps or Pryor? Flavor of the week?

Stefen Romero or Francisco Martinez? another day, another flavor..

Mauerer should be a pretty solid SP candidate. Perhaps around the same time frame of Bradley with the DBax, not as nearly composed or polished, though..

[homerawayfromhome]

GSon,
I'd expect 2 very solid prospects for Choo or one stud and another good / solid prospect for Choo.
Maurer is a B type prospect IMO I'd project as a solid 3 type. Capps looks like a solid 7/8 inning guy. Pryor pretty much the same. Romero is a RH bat who I think could play 1b/3b/LF. Francisco Martinez is another RH he plays 3b, has played some CF has shown little power but good speed I think he could be a RF/LF if his power comes along. I'd build a deal on Maurer and expect at least one of the others back in the deal.

[GoTribe028]

GSon,
I'd expect 2 very solid prospects for Choo or one stud and another good / solid prospect for Choo.
Maurer is a B type prospect IMO I'd project as a solid 3 type. Capps looks like a solid 7/8 inning guy. Pryor pretty much the same. Romero is a RH bat who I think could play 1b/3b/LF. Francisco Martinez is another RH he plays 3b, has played some CF has shown little power but good speed I think he could be a RF/LF if his power comes along. I'd build a deal on Maurer and expect at least one of the others back in the deal.

Span has 2 years left and only got 1 good prospect. Why would Choo net more?

[homerawayfromhome]

Alex Meyer has ace potential true number 1 stuff and don't forget he was at one time consider the 1 overall prospect entering the draft.
Maurer isn't a top 100 arm. Meyer is a top 50 prospect. Choo is a better talent, although under only 1 yr of control. Span is not an AS caliber player but very good CF.
Could look at the Ben Revere trade too, which netted the Twins Vance Worley (weak 3 / solid 4) and Trevor May (potentially a very good 3). Many felt the Twins got the better of the deal. Prospects are exactly that, they haven't proven anything or little in some cases. May is a better talent in comparison to Brandon Maurer IMO. So IMO Maurer (potentially a solid 3) and a bullpen arm like Carter Capps would be a fair deal.
Btw, check out the return for Hunter Pence which I think is also a fair comparison...
Hunter Pence to the Giants. The Phillies received Tommy Joseph-C (giants #3 prospect), Nate Scheirholtz -OF (bench bat / PH) and Seth Rosin (giants #18 prospect).
My proposal was simply Brandon Maurer (M's #11) and Carter Capps (M's #7) or Romero (10) or Martinez (12) as per Mlb.com's ranking which I'd consider fair. 2 players: my preference Maurer and Capps.

[GeronimoSon]

GSon,
I'd expect 2 very solid prospects for Choo or one stud and another good / solid prospect for Choo.
Maurer is a B type prospect IMO I'd project as a solid 3 type. Capps looks like a solid 7/8 inning guy. Pryor pretty much the same. Romero is a RH bat who I think could play 1b/3b/LF. Francisco Martinez is another RH he plays 3b, has played some CF has shown little power but good speed I think he could be a RF/LF if his power comes along. I'd build a deal on Maurer and expect at least one of the others back in the deal.

Span has 2 years left and only got 1 good prospect. Why would Choo net more?

Alex Meyer had developed into the Nationals top pitching prospect. He has the size and peripherals of a front of the rotation sp. The two or three guys Homer is suggesting, are MOR/BOR types, good, not impactful position players. So, there is a difference in quality.. imho..

[Rocky55]

Mark Reynolds?? The insanity continues.

One of the worst K-BB ratios ever, a journeyman at best, not a baseball player, no tangibles.

Horrible acquistion, but par for the course with the Indians current low level decision-makers. Would
rather see Russ Canzler and a parade of other young players get a shot at the position, anyone but
Reynolds.

Ah, the past sins of Mark Shapiro keep on haunting this team.

Another lousy acquisition.

PS As Aramis Ramirez said, players don't want to come to Cleveland, not because of the city because of the
organization. Ain't going to get better until we get a new owner. Disgusting.

I would disagree to the extent that none of us here know whether or not Reynolds has "tangibles". He has tangible power & tangibly hits RH, both of which we need. He might be a great team mate with an excellent work ethic who improves the lineup by giving cover to the player batting before him. Imagine him between Santana & Chiz, especially if Chiz picks up where he left off pre-injury. If you mean that he has limited dimensions, fielding, running, etc, so do a lot of good successful players. If the last World Series shows us anything, it shows that it's not always the Superstar that comes up big in the clutch; lots of times it's the lesser regarded player.

As far as Aramis' quote is concerned, all we need is a Swisher signing to consign it to the dustbin of history. We sign Swisher and/or Jackson, after getting Francona, and we could become a destination for 2nd tier FA's.

[Rocky55]

Seriously, been thinking about it, talking to my Dad, we are really close to turning this thing around with a few dominos falling in the right place. Good bit of money to spend on FA's only a couple of holes to fill(OF, SP), with the return we want from Asdrubal/Choo, we can compete. Lots of "ifs" including a healthy, bounce back from Carrasco & Chiz, but at least we can see the way.

[Hermie13]

Mark Reynolds?? The insanity continues.

One of the worst K-BB ratios ever, a journeyman at best, not a baseball player, no tangibles.

Horrible acquistion, but par for the course with the Indians current low level decision-makers. Would
rather see Russ Canzler and a parade of other young players get a shot at the position, anyone but
Reynolds.

Ah, the past sins of Mark Shapiro keep on haunting this team.

Another lousy acquisition.

PS As Aramis Ramirez said, players don't want to come to Cleveland, not because of the city because of the
organization. Ain't going to get better until we get a new owner. Disgusting.

Reynolds is a hitter, not a pitcher. K-BB ratio? Never heard of that stat for a hitter. Reynolds is not even close to the worst ever either. 2.75 K-BB ratio in his career (again, not a stat anyone really keeps). Just a quick check, Alfonso Soriano is way worse at a 3.47 K-BB ratio. Drew Stubbs is also way worse at 3.36 and Pedro Alvarez at 3.21. Sure there's plenty more as I simply looked at the current NL Central (as I knew Stubbs was worse) but don't feel like looking too deep (again, not a stat easily listed so have to dig for it). Reynolds walks a lot actually (averages over 70 a year), and sports a decent .332 career OBP as well (an career OPS over .800).

Maybe you meant K-AB ratio? or simply K-rate (or K%)??

He did finish with 6th in baseball this past year with a 29.6% K-rate, below guys like Carlos Pena, Adam Dunn, Stubbs and just above Danny Espinosa, Curtis Granderson, BJ Upton, Mark Trumbo, Dan Uggla and Jason Kubel. Though he also finished with the 7th highest BB% in baseball at 13.6%. He's a lot like Pena and Dunn. Going to K a lot, but power and walks will be there as well.

[GeronimoSon]

Seriously, been thinking about it, talking to my Dad, we are really close to turning this thing around with a few dominos falling in the right place. Good bit of money to spend on FA's only a couple of holes to fill(OF, SP), with the return we want from Asdrubal/Choo, we can compete. Lots of "ifs" including a healthy, bounce back from Carrasco & Chiz, but at least we can see the way.

The front office's interview revealed that the Indians have spent more time in first place in the division over the last two years than anyone else. While it's not JUST who's in first place that matters, it's WHEN who's in first place that seems to be the answer you hear when evaluating the Indians and their pursuit of the playoffs and World Series win. We also hear about the grandness of the 90's when the Indians won as many WS as the Indians of the 2000's and so far into the 2010's. There were more people in the stands. Less teams worth watching else where.

Sure, a couple of good trades can turn this club into an AL Central division contender knowing full well that it's gonna take probably around 88 wins to get there.. IF it happens, then hundreds more people will come out and see them play..and IF, only IF they win it all, will the 'reviews' be boffo, a smash hit!! , a bravisimo performance.. otherwise, the Indians will just be a team that doesn't have any tangibles.. Damn, & I thought the Indians were going to buy some tangibles while they were at the winter meetings.. who forgot to buy the tangibles !!. it's his fault !!..

HNQ... (tongue in cheek)...

[Hermie13]

GSon,
I'd expect 2 very solid prospects for Choo or one stud and another good / solid prospect for Choo.
Maurer is a B type prospect IMO I'd project as a solid 3 type. Capps looks like a solid 7/8 inning guy. Pryor pretty much the same. Romero is a RH bat who I think could play 1b/3b/LF. Francisco Martinez is another RH he plays 3b, has played some CF has shown little power but good speed I think he could be a RF/LF if his power comes along. I'd build a deal on Maurer and expect at least one of the others back in the deal.

Span has 2 years left and only got 1 good prospect. Why would Choo net more?

Span potentially has 3 years left (team option for 2015). That said, you could argue Choo is better than Span. Span playing CF gives him value but Choo has the much better bat. I do think the Span trade could hurt us with Choo...though also think that once Swisher, Ross, Hamilton and Bourn sign a team could come calling. Or could come offering something very nice hoping to avoid paying the big salaries on a free agent.

[homerawayfromhome]

If you can argue that Span affects the value of Choo than you could also argue that Revere affects the value of Choo too. Btw, the Revere trade was deemed by many an overpay... others said Span's price was cheap. So many experts, I guess eventually if you read enough sites, etc., you'll find exactly what you want to hear or don't want to hear. Seems pretty much like a wash, I get the point but look at Hunter Pence who was traded at the deadline and is a comparable talent to Choo. Stats would argue Choo is actually better. That is the significant bc they are pretty equal talents. I've said it time and again but look at the Phillies return for Choo, with the mkt bump a team that misses out is likely to come calling now or again at the deadline. Btw, the Mets grabbed Zack Wheeler for half a season of Carlos Beltran. Just saying teams will overpay to get the hired gun they want.

Here's the Pence trade again...

Phillies received...
Tommy Joseph - C the giants #3 prospect. Not a top 100 talent btw.
Nate Scheirholtz - OF a bench / platoon type bat. Recently DFA by the Phil's and signed by the Cubs.
Seth Rosin - RHRP the giants #18 prospect. Mid 90's FB could be a ML option soon.

Giants received...
Hunter Pence - OF who made $10.4 M last yr and is projected to to make $13.8 M in arb. in 2013 (mlbtraderumors.com).

For the record...
Choo is projected to make $7.9 M in arb. in 2013 (mlbtraderumors.com).

So I could see a number of teams looking for a affordable option in the OF. Oh, and if a team acq. Him this offseason they could either resign him or simply offer him a qualifying offer and receive draft pk comp.

[BrianM]

Seattle may also be motivated to trade for Choo considering they may have a realistic chance of resigning him after the season. Seattle has a very large Asian population and he knows their system already considering he was developed there. If they're willing to pay him, I imagine there would be no reason he goes anywhere else.

[GeronimoSon]

Seattle may also be motivated to trade for Choo considering they may have a realistic chance of resigning him after the season. Seattle has a very large Asian population and he knows their system already considering he was developed there. If they're willing to pay him, I imagine there would be no reason he goes anywhere else.

Seattle has the same problems that other clubs have.. a need for a ML quality player right now who fixes an area of the team but no desire to tear asunder the system they've built to this point. The M's could EASILY acquire just about ANYONE they want with the likes of Taijuan Walker and Danny Hultzen and Mike Zunino etc..but they want those guys for the long haul and would prefer to "buy" a FA or two make a trade for someone that can fill a gap until a prospect is ready. This is where what the Indians are offering makes sense and the market doesn't.

The M's have the $$ to sign a guy like Josh Hamilton, but don't have the stomach. A tenth of a billion dollars committed to him takes a LOT of courage and the M's don't have it. Maybe it's better that they dont?

The M's have the prospects to acquire Justin Upton.. but the DBax want both Taijuan and Hultzen plus throw in Zunino for good measure as they have what the M's want more. The M's will back off of this, without a doubt.

The Indians have a one year OF who slots into the M's outfield for one third or one half of either Hamilton or Upton, respectively. He's a solid player, can lead off or hit third. LOVES the culture and has played for Eric Wedge in the past. Because he's only on a one year contract, If he walks after the 2013 season, thanks for the memories and he didn't cost any one of the Big Four.. heck, the M's could possibly even even out the cash outlay by having the Indians take Franklin Gutierrez as part of the return, thereby making the uncertainty of his performance Cleveland's problem.

It works.. it works for both clubs and it works provided the Indians only ask for a package that includes some combination of Brandon Mauerer/Francisco Martinez/Stefen Romero/Gutierrez.

The only question that remains is: is that all the Indians & M's have to talk about?.

[Edible14]

Interesting thing I've been gathering on public support for an ACab trade: it's totally there.

I work at the casino downtown, and I often will make small talk with customers by talking about the Browns/Cavs/Indians. Just about every customer I've talked to - and mind you, these are generally very cynical people - thinks we need to trade Asdrubal Cabrera before he becomes awful. Articles on WFNY seem pretty much in the "trade him" camp, and the commentators seem to agree.

I've said before that it's stupid to base decisions on what you think public reaction will be, and I still think that's true. But it's interesting to me that there probably won't be a huge negative backlash to trading an all-star shortstop, likely just for prospects.

[GoTribe028]

Not wanting to stir this pot up again (but I'm gonna!) but Kenny Rosenthal posted this article today about the Rangers and mentioned the talks of Arizona, Texas, and of course Cleveland.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/texa ... ift-121012

A three-team deal between the Rangers, Diamondbacks and Indians was “very close” at the winter meetings, according to one official involved with the discussions.

The foundation of such a deal would have been Upton to Texas, Cleveland shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera to Arizona and prospects — perhaps third baseman Mike Olt from Texas and either lefty Patrick Corbin or righty Trevor Bauer from Arizona — to Cleveland.

The talks stalled, however, perhaps over the Rangers’ need to satisfy the Diamondbacks with additional pieces. While the teams continue to exchange ideas, the official said he was not optimistic that an agreement would be reached.

Not sure if Olt is just him speculating, but I could see it even with Reynolds on board since its only 1 season, Olt would offer a longer term potential option at a corner spot.

Also now I've seen both Arizona & Texas listed as the reasons a deal may not have been reached, citing they weren't satisfied with their end of the bargain. Also have been a few reports the Indians aren't being offered enough to their liking for Choo or Cabrera (Oddly haven't heard Perez mentioned much even with all the FA closers).

So since clearly all teams involved weren't happy (although with what Cleveland was trying to do, Bauer & Olt is quite a return on Cabrera) it makes one wonder why they are so focused on making just one giant trade.

We'll see what happens, still quite a bit of offseason to go and a lot of dominoes to fall yet.

[GoTribe028]

Paul Hoynes first reported this, Buster Olney also brought it up FWIW

Apparently, the trade for Asdrubal Cabrera that didn't go through, that would have netted the Indians "a ML pitcher and 2 high level prospects" while the trade partner would have changed Cabrera's postition, was the Phillies. Phillie reportedly offered Vance Worley and the 2 prospects and Cleveland asked for more before they both moved on.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... ookin.html

[GeronimoSon]

Paul Hoynes first reported this, Buster Olney also brought it up FWIW

Apparently, the trade for Asdrubal Cabrera that didn't go through, that would have netted the Indians "a ML pitcher and 2 high level prospects" while the trade partner would have changed Cabrera's postition, was the Phillies. Phillie reportedly offered Vance Worley and the 2 prospects and Cleveland asked for more before they both moved on.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... ookin.html

Matt Gelb of the Philladelphia Inquirer had a piece about the acquisition of both Michael Young and Ben Revere. In the note he quoted a somewhat effusive Charlie Manuel who loved what had been done. The interview then took a right hand turn where good ole Charlie claimed that Ruben was going to do something about the "just as important" corner outfield situation. On the free agent front, signing one of Swisher or Ross (presumably, Josh Hamilton would exceed the budget) would make sense with emphasis on Ross, who hits RH'ed & wouldn't eat up the rest of the Phillies $ 20 MM budget for this acquisition. The Phillies have also addressed a need for a set up arm to bridge from the SP to Jonathan Papelbon.

When you look at Choo's splits, the LH v LH last year was an aberration thereby making Choo a pretty inviting target for the Phillies, IF, they want to include CP into the equation...which I don't believe the Indians are interested in doing at the present time...

Someone on this board mentioned that they were surprised that CP wasn't being mentioned anywhere.. While this is pure speculation, CP's value to the Indians effort in 2013 is critical for the first half. If the Indians have a good start, CP stays and a draft pick ensues and are worth much more than they'd get trading him today. Another factor regarding CP, his value will never be higher than at the Trading Deadline when someone, coughtigerscough, are having fits with their pen because they decided to roll the dice and they came up craps or Rondon, whichever fits..

[homerawayfromhome]

GoTribe,

Thanks for the links.

First, I don't think the Tribe would settle for Olt and Corbin for Cabrera I could see it if it included Bauer / Skaggs instead of Corbin. I like Corbin but he's a very solid number 4 starter IMO. Bauer / Skaggs have more upside. The Tribe seems to have an affinity for Bauer, Skaggs and Bradley and we will likely see them work something out at some point in the near future. I'd think Mike Olt wouldn't be ruled out by the Tribe. He'd easily be the Tribes best 1b prospect but Olt offers positional versatility too, with the ability play 1b, 3b, LF, DH.

I still think the Tribe and Dbax will match up for some sort of deal for ACab once the Tribe has clarified their positional needs. If the Tribe lands Swisher or Ross I think the Tribe will try to land Bauer and Skaggs. If the Tribe misses out on Swisher and Ross I think we could see the Tribe try to land Kubel and Skaggs or Bauer.

Finally, I'm not really surprised to hear it was the Phillies and the Tribe trying to match up in a deal for ACab. In fact I think there was a cpl of us on this broad that suggested as much. Worley is a 4/5 starter at best IMO, I think we could assume the Tribe probably would have acq. Trevor May too bc he was sent packing to the Twins. The other two who knows...could guess, Cloyd, Biddle, Joseph, Pettibone, Colvin. IF the Tribe were to land 2 of 3 of their other pitchers (Biddle, Colvin, May) I could see them doing it but otherwise no big loss.

I do think the Tribe and Phillies could come together again at some point on Choo, Joe Smith and Lou Marson. I know the Phillies have tried to reacquire Marson a cpl times he'd be a short term backup option for them with Tommy Joseph and Sebastian Valle moving qkly toward the majors. The Phillies system isn't very deep right now but I think they'd be willing to move a few pieces to strengthen their big league club.

[GeronimoSon]

Another factor to consider is the fallout from the Royals/Rays trade. The Royals absolutely won the short term value from this trade. No doubt about it. No way it can be interpreted as anything other than the Royals got exactly what they were looking for & will begin the 2013 season as a MUCH better team, because of it. The long term results are a LOT murkier, but that's for something to worry about at some future date..

The Rays severely weakened their starting pitching staff by yanking, not one, but TWO SP's from their rotation including their staff ace, James Shields. Say what you will about the beast that David Price has become, but he was taking the ball in the second game of the series, not the first which was reserved for James Shields. Wade Davis was a versatile pitcher who could work out of the pen or work as a starter. He will be missed as well, if, for no other reason than he added to the depth of starting pitchers the Rays had at their disposal.

I DON'T THINK THE RAYS ARE DONE.. The Rays dropped nearly $ 12 MM in payroll from their roster in acquiring this group of kids and now have a bloated bank account and at least two holes (three to be honest) to fill: OF'er, Shortstop and #3 SP.. hmm who has a SS and a # 3 SP to trade and just got a haul of prospects to trade and a bank account to pay for some if not all of their projected acquisition? Oh, and the guys they acquire are going to be short term acquisitions, no big deal if they're one and done. While it could be speculated that three way trade the Rays were mentioned in, could still be valid, but maybe not and maybe not now. The Rays have learned that if they want to get something done, they have to do it themselves. The Rays & Indians are getting pretty tired of Texas gumming up the works and could make a deal that excludes the Texas two-stepping nonsense? The question becomes, what could it be?.

Any ideas?

[Rocky55]

Paul Hoynes first reported this, Buster Olney also brought it up FWIW

Apparently, the trade for Asdrubal Cabrera that didn't go through, that would have netted the Indians "a ML pitcher and 2 high level prospects" while the trade partner would have changed Cabrera's postition, was the Phillies. Phillie reportedly offered Vance Worley and the 2 prospects and Cleveland asked for more before they both moved on.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... ookin.html

Hard to comment without knowing who the two "high level prospects" were. If it was Worley, jesse Biddle & Trevor May, they effed up. I'd bet it wasn't those two. The Phillies don't "lose" trades. May is a K monster (and a BB monster), and should be at least a #3 & I like Biddle, who should be pitching in AA as a 21 yr old, even better.

Too bad we don't know the players involved.

[homerawayfromhome]

GSon,

I think I was one of a cpl people who mentioned the quietness surrounding CPerez. It's not quiet true, the mkt has not been totally quiet. The Giants have re-expressed interest in Perez but they really. Don't have the prospects near ready at the major league level unless the Tribe settled for Gary Brown and one of their young arms in Kyle Crick or Clayton Blackburn who are both 2/3 yrs away. Brown simply isn't overwhelming as a prospect.

I have heard the Phillies have looked at possibly acq. Perez to couple with Papelbon for a shutdown pen. I think it may have been mere speculation though. I could see them trying to acq. Pestano, which seems a more realistic option.

The Red Sox have Andrew Bailey but could take a look at Perez bc of the 2 yrs of control for the AS Closer and the need to solidify their pen. I could see the Tribe trying to acq. Andrew Bailey in return for a cheaper option with a prospect like Allen Webster coming back to the Tribe. Bailey has had some injury concerns too which could

Also, the Yankees could be looking for another closing option with Mariano Rivera recovering from ACL injury and Rafael Soriano being a FA. A cpl names to consider if the Tribe and Yanx were to engage in trade talks... Gary Sanchez-C, Mason Williams-OF, Slade Heathcott-OF and Tyler Austin-OF. Although the Yanks have David Robertson and David Aardsma as in house options.

The Tigers could be a team that comes calling at some point, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they already have made an inquiry or two on Chris Perez. IF the Tigers do come calling the price should be extensive for the divisional foe. A few names the Tribe could try to squeeze out of the Tigers: Nick Castellanos, Casey Crosby, Bruce Rondon and Asavail Garcia.

There are other teams I could see jump in on Perez too like the Mets or even the Dodgers who have depth but also want an AS at every position. It's not as if the Tribe has to move Perez with 2 yrs of control I think now or the trade deadline would be ideal to maximize Perez's value for the Tribe.

[GoTribe028]

I still think the Tribe and Dbax will match up for some sort of deal for ACab once the Tribe has clarified their positional needs. If the Tribe lands Swisher or Ross I think the Tribe will try to land Bauer and Skaggs. If the Tribe misses out on Swisher and Ross I think we could see the Tribe try to land Kubel and Skaggs or Bauer.

I'd be fine with Kubel if he were included in a deal for the Skaggs/Bauer types if Arizona is still interested, especially if the Indians miss out on Swisher (I'm certain he's hoping another team makes him at least a comparable offer) or potentially Cody Ross (I'm not sure if Ross has even been connected to the Indians to this point).

If the Indians get tired of waiting on Swisher (like they may have with Youkilis) Cody Ross is certainly a fit. Should The Swish not sign here, one name I want to put back out there has been mentioned a few times over the past few weeks:

Scott Hairston.

[OhioBaseball]

Random throw-in comment; regarding the Arizona trade talks, they've got a supplemental 1st round pick that is able to be traded. I think the 20th to 40th overall section of the upcoming draft is a real sweet spot of the talent pool. I'd like to see Cleveland try to swap their 2nd round supplemental pick for a 1st round pick if possible (or just straight up acquired without giving up the 2nd supplemental), whether it be Arizona or some other team. There's both some college guys and high school guys that look like they will be available there. It's a shame the Indians didn't get a 1st supplemental pick the drawing.

Obviously, I want tangible talent right now over rights to sign a player (draft pick), so it'd be a sweetener kind of thing, but I'd try to make it happen.

[homerawayfromhome]

Scott Hairston is a quiet producer, probably lands something like 2yrs / $8 M with an option for a 3rd yr. could see him get something like Jeff Keppinger 3 yrs / $12 M. I like Hairston and would prefer to see the Tribe land both Hairston and Ross if Swisher is a no go...which seems to be the case.

Btw, Ken Rosenthal says Tribe and Dbax still talking ACab deal (2 team deal).