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MLB Hot Stove

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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:40 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Twins have traded Denard Span to the Nationals for Alex Meyer.

Upton now Span....OF market could really heat up over the winter meetings....Choo possibly next to move?


Good move for Washington, potentially for the Twinkies too. Span has 2 years of control left over Choo's final year. Will be interesting to see if Choo can bring a return similar.


I agree on good move for the Nats. Not so sure on the Twins though. While Meyer is a nice spec he's got his faults. Plus, kind of interesting that the Mets got Zach Wheeler for half a year of Beltran (and no chance at draft pic) and the Twins got just Meyer for 2 years of Span (plus potential draft pick down the line). Beltran when healthy is the better player but Span is younger and should have had a bit more value IMO. I'd personally be a bit disappointed if all we got was Alex Meyer for Choo (wouldn't hate it but think you can do better)...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:42 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:While it's been stated by several posters on this site, a return for trading Justin Masterson has to be solidly in favor of the Indians in the long term, but, perhaps, not quite so clearly in favor of the Indians in the short term (at least that's my read). Do the Indians have a "chat" with the Nats about a possible return of one or several prospects for Justin Masterson ? Do the Nats see the 2013 season as "THEIR YEAR" to go for it with the acquisition of a very affordable SP like Justin Masterson as their # 4 / # 5 SP ?


I mean sure I'd ask about their top specs for Masterson but see no reason why they'd move any of them for a guy that will be their #4 or 5 starter. They were able to get Edwin Jackson last year on the open market, odds are they'd look there before considering a deal for Masterson. Don't see a fit/match there.

Reports are that the Nats could make a run at Greinke....Gonzalez, Greinke, Strasburg, Zimmerman as a playoff rotation?? Good luck NL if that happens...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:52 pm

Being the # 4 or # 5 following Steven Strasburg and Geo Gonzalez and Jordan Zimmerman and Ross Detweiler etc etc etc isn't the same as being the # 4 or # 5 with the Indians.. The Nats are looking to upgrade their SP rotation as an identified club need:

..Club needs

Starting pitcher: The Nationals are looking for a starting pitcher to replace right-hander Edwin Jackson. Unlike previous years, Washington doesn't have pitchers from its farm system who are ready for the big leagues in 2013.

So don't be surprised if Rizzo tries to sign a veteran pitcher like free agent Zack Greinke. Rizzo tried to acquire Greinke from the Royals before the 2011 season, but Greinke used his no-trade clause to reject the deal. He ended up with the Brewers instead.

Keep in mind that Rizzo was able to acquire Gonzalez from the Athletics for four prospects late last year. Gonzalez, who finished third in the National League Cy Young Award voting, went on to win 21 games this past season.
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:53 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Upton has mad skills and talent......but the guy has basically been a league average player for FOUR straight years. I don't know why people think he is suddenly going to be more going forward. Big overpay for a guy like him.


I'd love to know exactly what offers he got before signing. Reports are they Phillies max offer was 5yr/$55M, which personally think was much more reasonable (even that is pretty high I think). Phillies seemed to be, according to reports, one of the more interested teams. If you're a Braves fan you gotta hope there was some deal in between there I'd think...
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:58 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Being the # 4 or # 5 following Steven Strasburg and Geo Gonzalez and Jordan Zimmerman and Ross Detweiler etc etc etc isn't the same as being the # 4 or # 5 with the Indians.. The Nats are looking to upgrade their SP rotation as an identified club need:

..Club needs

Starting pitcher: The Nationals are looking for a starting pitcher to replace right-hander Edwin Jackson. Unlike previous years, Washington doesn't have pitchers from its farm system who are ready for the big leagues in 2013.

So don't be surprised if Rizzo tries to sign a veteran pitcher like free agent Zack Greinke. Rizzo tried to acquire Greinke from the Royals before the 2011 season, but Greinke used his no-trade clause to reject the deal. He ended up with the Brewers instead.

Keep in mind that Rizzo was able to acquire Gonzalez from the Athletics for four prospects late last year. Gonzalez, who finished third in the National League Cy Young Award voting, went on to win 21 games this past season.


Never disagreed on the Nats looking for a pitcher, just do not see Masterson as a fit there. A #4 is a #4. You don't overpay in specs for a guy that will be your #4 or 5 starter. You get a guy like Jackson on a 1 year deal, or look at a guy like Brandon McCarthy. If you then turn to the trade market you look for a guy that won't cost you a ton. Hell, they could still go with John Lannan if they don't non-tender him. IMO the way to get the best value for Masterson (if you look to deal him) is to find a team that is pitching starved, and the Nats, while they could use a pitcher, just don't fit that bill, but may just be me.

Only place I see the Tribe and Nats possibly matching up is maybe for Mike Morse if they bring back LaRoche.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:05 pm

Well there ya go, Tommy Hanson has been dealt. Angels get him for Jordan Walden.

Could make Tehran unavailable (if he ever was).....
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:15 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well there ya go, Tommy Hanson has been dealt. Angels get him for Jordan Walden.

Could make Tehran unavailable (if he ever was).....


Not sure how I feel about this. Both pitchers have had issues with health and consistency. Both teams seemed to be a little too trigger happy with both pitchers. In the end I guess the Braves have the safe play here. Tommy Hanson seems to be in decline, similar to Scott Kazmir who oddly enough, the Indians have interest in.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:31 pm

NL Central Chat had the the following:

..11:46 Comment From Josh: theres been rumors of a josh vitters + another prospect for lonnie chisenhall of cleveland so the cubs can shore up third and the indians can get a few pieces for the future, what type of prospect would the other guy have to be and do you see anything like this happening?
11:47 Tim Dierkes: I've heard the not too reliable rumor of the Cubs' interest in Chisenhall. But unless "another prospect" is one of the Cubs' best, there's no reason for the Tribe to entertain it. Vitters has very little trade value. Bottom line: I do not see it happening.


Well, if Tim Dierkes (rhymes with circus) doesn't see it happening..then it's not happening.. or is it?. If (big if, huge if, probably too big of an IF) the Indians are convinced that Lonnie Chisenhall is the guy, then no deal is made. But if they're not, then why not look at what the cubs have to offer in the way of returns.. The Cubs top five guys (Baez, Almora, Jackson, Vizcaino and Soler)are most likely 'untouchable'. With the Cubs current major league roster being worse than the Indians..or it could be argued that it's worse, that leaves only a limited group in the minors to consider. If the Indians front office believes Vitters is a worthy gamble for losing Chisenhall, then the Indians may want to hedge their bet with the inclusion of any number of these three guys: Dillon Maples, Barret Loux and Dan Vogelbach.
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(there might be some obscure rule about trading a guy who just got traded before next Tuesday or a week before May 15th, which ever comes first, but it's not material to the idea being posed.. it's just as petty as correcting an "i" for a "y" in the spelling of a player's name)
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:32 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well there ya go, Tommy Hanson has been dealt. Angels get him for Jordan Walden.

Could make Tehran unavailable (if he ever was).....


Can only mean one thing, Tommy Hanson's arm is about to fall off...

or not..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:39 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Well there ya go, Tommy Hanson has been dealt. Angels get him for Jordan Walden.

Could make Tehran unavailable (if he ever was).....


This most likely means that only 1 of them (Tehran/Delgado/Gilmartin) would be available. The Braves rotation looks to be Medlen, Hudson, Minor, Maholm with Beachy due back late 2013. Hudson and Medlen have all had injury issues. My guess is the Delgado would be the untouchable. I wouldn't want Gilmartin as the main return for Choo but would need Tehran + another prospect.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:08 pm

Some speculation Washington could end up dealing Michael Morse....

Jayson Stark put this on The Twitter

In the wake of Denard Span deal, #Nationals are "definitely shopping Mike Morse a little bit," says AL exec. Could deal Morse & sign LaRoche
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:20 pm

Indians claimed Mike McDade from Toronto. Chris Seddon DFA'd
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Jim Bowdem posted his "5 bold predictions for the winter meetings" here's #2

The Indians are waiting for the top free agents to sign. Once that happens, teams that lose out will be calling them to make deals. The Indians have the highest-quality tradable players currently on the market. Right fielder Shin-Soo Choo is one of the most underrated right fielders in baseball. He’s a complete player and is about to enter his free-agent walk year. He is represented by Scott Boras, which means it’s unlikely he’ll sign a contract extension before testing the open market. Therefore, once Josh Hamilton, Cody Ross and Nick Swisher have inked deals, the clubs that missed out will attempt to trade for Choo.

Several teams are pursuing shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, including the Arizona Diamondbacks, Detroit Tigers and Oakland Athletics. If anyone of those teams puts together the right package of young starting pitching, it might be able to pry him loose. Closer Chris Perez is well respected throughout the game as a straight shooter who speaks his mind without filter, which is fine unless you’re always bashing the ownership, the front office and the fans. His trade value is at an all-time high, and now is the best time to get the best return. With starting pitching always at a premium, the Tribe also will listen to offers for Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. The bottom line is the Indians will be an interesting team to watch in Nashville.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Indians officially non tender Raffy Perez, Chris Seddon, and Jack Hannahan.

If the Indians were to move Choo this offseason, replacing him is obviously going to be a tall task, probably near impossible in reality. Boston is expected to non tender Ryan Sweeney. Has had a few seasons similar to Brantley in the past, would be a solid stop gap in right, and a strong defender.
Last edited by GoTribe028 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:00 am

Just like everyone else in the business, I've got a feeling the next few weeks won't be boring for us tribe fanatics.

I know some people are sick of GSon's obscure trade ideas, but with more info being gathered, it may be time for everyone to try to throw out some trade ideas of their own. We can turn it into a game. Geronimo, it has been 5 hours since GoTribe has posted that the Tigers and A's (along with the Dbacks, but we have already talked about them) are rumored to be interested in Acab. I want some obscure trade proposals ASAP! (Please)
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:19 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:Jim Bowdem posted his "5 bold predictions for the winter meetings" here's #2

The Indians are waiting for the top free agents to sign. Once that happens, teams that lose out will be calling them to make deals. The Indians have the highest-quality tradable players currently on the market. Right fielder Shin-Soo Choo is one of the most underrated right fielders in baseball. He’s a complete player and is about to enter his free-agent walk year. He is represented by Scott Boras, which means it’s unlikely he’ll sign a contract extension before testing the open market. Therefore, once Josh Hamilton, Cody Ross and Nick Swisher have inked deals, the clubs that missed out will attempt to trade for Choo.

Several teams are pursuing shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, including the Arizona Diamondbacks, Detroit Tigers and Oakland Athletics. If anyone of those teams puts together the right package of young starting pitching, it might be able to pry him loose. Closer Chris Perez is well respected throughout the game as a straight shooter who speaks his mind without filter, which is fine unless you’re always bashing the ownership, the front office and the fans. His trade value is at an all-time high, and now is the best time to get the best return. With starting pitching always at a premium, the Tribe also will listen to offers for Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. The bottom line is the Indians will be an interesting team to watch in Nashville.

There's no way we trade anything of value to the tigers, right? Their specs suck.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/ ... s-for-2013

I don't see any four player combo in that list, even including any comp draft pick(S), that I'd trade Asdrubal for and I wouldn't help them even if it really helped us. Imagine the Browns trading a Pro Bowl guy to the Stillers.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:26 pm

First, I like the Denard Span trade by the Nats, I would have figured the Twins could have gotten more but Alex Meyer is a potential number 1 starter the Twins will benefit from this move IF he stays healthy and develops. Ppl seem to forget Meyer was at one time considered the number 1 prospect in the draft a few yrs back.

Second, has Russell Martin signing set a few other moves in motion??? Here's where I'm going...Martin is only 30 signed short term for a bit larger of a deal than he was valued by other clubs like the Rangers and Yanks who offered less reportedly althought the Rangers offered 3yrs / $21 M reportedly.

Third, the mkt on Michael Bourn seems to be drying up a bit with the moves of Upton and Span and the Phillies reportedly heatedly after Angel Pagan to man CF. Hes a guy I wanted the Tribe to pay the price on (instead of Ubaldo). The Giants, Rangers, Reds, Cubs and Phillies all reportedly have some level of interest. Could the Tribe kick the tires on Bourn? I think his contract demands ($$$ and yrs) could make that unlikely.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:29 pm

Here's a crazy trade idea involving the Tigers...

ACab and Chris Perez
For
Asvail Garcia, Bruce Rondon, Andy Oliver and Casey Crosby
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Jim Bowdem posted his "5 bold predictions for the winter meetings" here's #2

The Indians are waiting for the top free agents to sign. Once that happens, teams that lose out will be calling them to make deals. The Indians have the highest-quality tradable players currently on the market. Right fielder Shin-Soo Choo is one of the most underrated right fielders in baseball. He’s a complete player and is about to enter his free-agent walk year. He is represented by Scott Boras, which means it’s unlikely he’ll sign a contract extension before testing the open market. Therefore, once Josh Hamilton, Cody Ross and Nick Swisher have inked deals, the clubs that missed out will attempt to trade for Choo.

Several teams are pursuing shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, including the Arizona Diamondbacks, Detroit Tigers and Oakland Athletics. If anyone of those teams puts together the right package of young starting pitching, it might be able to pry him loose. Closer Chris Perez is well respected throughout the game as a straight shooter who speaks his mind without filter, which is fine unless you’re always bashing the ownership, the front office and the fans. His trade value is at an all-time high, and now is the best time to get the best return. With starting pitching always at a premium, the Tribe also will listen to offers for Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. The bottom line is the Indians will be an interesting team to watch in Nashville.

There's no way we trade anything of value to the tigers, right? Their specs suck.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/ ... s-for-2013

I don't see any four player combo in that list, even including any comp draft pick(S), that I'd trade Asdrubal for and I wouldn't help them even if it really helped us. Imagine the Browns trading a Pro Bowl guy to the Stillers.


Rocky, that list doesn't include Drew Smyly! I really like him -- I think I posted back on this site years ago in the draft that the Indians should look at him as a Drew Pomeranz-lite in that he's a lefty that throws very tall with good downward plane on his fastball and curveball. Smyly is good and was underrated b/c he was a draft eligible sophomore at Arkansas. Smyly reminds me a little of Cliff Lee (coincidentally both went to Arkansas); their stuff is quite similar coming from similar arm slots/angles. Smyly doesn't defend his position well the way he falls off the mound, but whatever.

It's tough to trade Cabrera in division, but Smyly could step right into the rotation and it'd be perfectly justified to fans. Heck, Smyly could be #2 or #3 in the rotation right off the bat. Detroit would be hesitant getting rid of him, but I'd really try to make something work and also get some other pieces, such as Crosby (using other players, such as Chris Perez??) b/c he fits just what the Indians should want.

John Sickels doesn't like him much, but Casey Crosby is a talented LHP prospect close to the majors. He's also in the Cliff Lee mold.

I think Detroit has the arms to interest in the Indians, in that they are impact types that are close to the majors. Smyly is already there and effective, so I wonder if the Tigers would even want to trade him but he's just their #5 starter. With Verlander, Scherzer, Fister and Porcello, if the Tigers sign Anibal Sanchez, Smyly is absolutely expendable, but there seem to be a lot of variables at play.

I see a really good potential fit. I know people don't want to trade MLB talent to the Tigers, but the Indians would be getting Smyly (if offered), who'd step right into the MLB rotation which is what the Indians need. Smyly could even be the Indians best pitcher very early.
Last edited by OhioBaseball on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:46 pm

There are a number of interesting names that got the axe yesterday some are probably roster fodder others are worth legit major league contracts. The Tribe should / could be creative in signing a number of them. The Tribe has at least 2 pitchers that will be on the 60 day DL from seasons start (Wood, Tomlin) and potentially a third in Carlos Carrasco. I'm not sure if the Tribe will place Carrasco on the 60 day DL and then send him on rehab assignments but I think they could and it would act as a way to limit his innings on the yr.

That said, the Tribe can sign a number of guys with spring invites some of the better ones could simply be given the option to opt out if not on the roster by May with a number of solid incentives written into their contracts.

The are some guys the Tribe could look into like Mark Reynolds. Could the Tribe look to sign Reynolds a la Willingham? Both are risk reward types with RH power. I know Reynolds would get 200 K's but he'd offer a different element (30+ hr power) from what the Tribe has in their lineup and could fill the hole at 1B for a number of yrs.

A few more names I think the Tribe should look heavily into minor league deals - a cpl will demand heavily incentive laden deals; Manny Parra, Ryan Sweeney, Ben Francisco, Mike Pelphery, Scott Atchinson, Jacob Brigham - (who was just acq back by the Rangers for Loux), Jeff Karstens, John Lannan, Jair Jurrgens, Juan Oramas - (who is recovering from TJ, the 22 yo has posted good numbers at every level and is a LHSP) and Zach Putnam.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:48 pm

Ohio Baseball,

I completely agree the Tribe needs big league arms and I don't care where they get them. I was actually going to suggest Drew Smyly myself he's a guy I think the Tribe could have legit interest in.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:29 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a crazy trade idea involving the Tigers...

ACab and Chris Perez
For
Asvail Garcia, Bruce Rondon, Andy Oliver and Casey Crosby


Wouldn't call this a crazy idea, just a creative means to an end.. btw, the Tiger's Rondon has a major league arm, for sure. Also, you might find the difference between crazy and eccentric, is all a matter of money.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:54 pm

Here's a small look at some teams the Tribe could be talking to this wk and teams that have been rumored (from various sources) to have some interest...

ACab - Boston, Oakland, AZ, Detroit, St Louis, Mets

Choo - Boston, Yanks, Mets, Angels, Seattle, TX, Philly, Atl, Cincinnati

CPerez - Mets, Detroit, Oakland, TX

Masterson - Boston, TX

Smith - Mets, Philly, Boston

Marson - Mets, TX, AZ
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:49 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Here's a small look at some teams the Tribe could be talking to this wk and teams that have been rumored (from various sources) to have some interest...

ACab - Boston, Oakland, AZ, Detroit, St Louis, Mets

Choo - Boston, Yanks, Mets, Angels, Seattle, TX, Philly, Atl, Cincinnati

CPerez - Mets, Detroit, Oakland, TX

Masterson - Boston, TX

Smith - Mets, Philly, Boston

Marson - Mets, TX, AZ


Thanks for this. I think the Mets could seriously pursue CP. They seem like they want to contend now, and he may be a good fit, especially in that spacious park. I still like the idea of ACab to the Dbacks more than anything. They are rumored to be interested in Brandon McCarthy to add to their already overstocked pitching staff, and if that move actually happens, they will certainly have some movable pieces. It is nice seeing so many names connected with Choo. In any other offseason, the fact that Boras is his agent and the inability to extend him could seriously lower his value, but this offseason we may still be able to bring in some serious talent. If this many suitors truly exist, I would imagine they would just try to sell him to the highest bidder, and who knows what kind of bidding war could go on during the winter meetings.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:28 am

A lot of teams have interest in players but make moves which could affect it obviously. Just keep in mind I kind of compiled this list from numerous rumors out there, some of which I didn't bother ie Chisenhall to the Cubs, Santana to the Yanks that have been aired on ESPN other places too. I tried to sort through them and just throw the names out there that seemed legit.

The tribe does a good job of keeping things quiet, other teams talk, as do there agents but some of these names, teams are probably media / Internet driven as well - just kind of linking players that seem to fit a need for something to write about.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:30 am

What's nice about Choo is nice for everyone now that BJ Upton has signed for $ 15 MM per year. BJ's brother, Justin is signed for three years at $ 13.5 MM per year. The numbers for Swisher appear to be skewed in several directions, however, they seem to be trending to upwards of $ 12 - $ 14 MM per year. The 'relative' bargain that Shin-soo Choo represents, even for a single year, makes him doubly attractive, as he should be. Hopefully, during the coming week, one of these rumors come to reality with a club like the DBax, the A's, the Cardinals or, my personal favorite, the Mariners:

DBax Trade Chips (MLB.com): Pitching is clearly the strength of the organization at the upper levels. Skaggs, Corbin and Bauer head the list, with David Holmberg and Chase Anderson coming fast. In the lower levels, Archie Bradley and Andrew Chaffin have drawn positive reviews from scouts. Position-player-wise, the team has outfielder Adam Eaton, shortstop Chris Owings and third baseman Matt Davidson at the upper levels.

A's Trade Chips (mlb.com): Outfielder Michael Choice, infielders Addison Russell, Grant Green, Miles Head and Daniel Robertson and right-handers A.J. Cole and Sonny Gray.

Cardinals Trade Chips (mlb.com): Infielders Kolten Wong, Adams, Carson Kelly; outfielders Oscar Taveras, Charlie Tilson, James Ramsey; right-handers Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez, Trevor Rosenthal, Michael Wacha, Tyrell Jenkins, Michael Blazek; and left-hander John Gast. The Cardinals would have to be overwhelmed with an offer to depart with any of the three right-handed pitchers from this list, and Taveras can be considered untouchable. But the Cardinals have shown a willingness to depart with prospects to address areas of need and such a move can't be ruled out this winter

Mariners Trade Chips (mlb.com): Jack Zduriencik is talking trades with lots of teams and it's fairly clear that his best chip is the young pitching depth in the Minor League system. If the Mariners are going to trade for a big bat, they'll almost surely have to surrender one of their prize arms like Hultzen, Paxton, Walker or Maurer, as they did a year ago in dealing Michael Pineda for Montero.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:36 pm

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove12/story ... r-meetings

Interesting bit here from Jayson Stark.

He mentioned a poll of most likely to get moved at the winter meetings and Cabrera and Choo come in at 2 and 3 on the list behind James Shields

He went on to write this

Cabrera: There's a feeling out there that the Indians are ready to hit the reset button and move a bunch of familiar faces -- from Choo to Chris Perez, from Ubaldo Jimenez to Justin Masterson, and maybe more. But thanks to a grim free-agent shortstop market, Cabrera is at the top of this list.

"I know the direction they're going and what they're looking for," one AL exec said. "And I think they find a taker. When Stephen Drew is the best [free-agent] option out there, they've just got too many ways to go [to move Cabrera]."

The Diamondbacks, Rays and A's have all been connected to Cabrera this winter. And given that the Indians want young, high-upside pitching back, all those teams are excellent fits. But the price might actually be so high that, as one NL exec said: "In the end, he ain't going anywhere. I know what they're looking for. And if the price stays the same, I can't imagine he'll get traded."
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:02 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:Jim Bowdem posted his "5 bold predictions for the winter meetings" here's #2

The Indians are waiting for the top free agents to sign. Once that happens, teams that lose out will be calling them to make deals. The Indians have the highest-quality tradable players currently on the market. Right fielder Shin-Soo Choo is one of the most underrated right fielders in baseball. He’s a complete player and is about to enter his free-agent walk year. He is represented by Scott Boras, which means it’s unlikely he’ll sign a contract extension before testing the open market. Therefore, once Josh Hamilton, Cody Ross and Nick Swisher have inked deals, the clubs that missed out will attempt to trade for Choo.

Several teams are pursuing shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera, including the Arizona Diamondbacks, Detroit Tigers and Oakland Athletics. If anyone of those teams puts together the right package of young starting pitching, it might be able to pry him loose. Closer Chris Perez is well respected throughout the game as a straight shooter who speaks his mind without filter, which is fine unless you’re always bashing the ownership, the front office and the fans. His trade value is at an all-time high, and now is the best time to get the best return. With starting pitching always at a premium, the Tribe also will listen to offers for Justin Masterson and Ubaldo Jimenez. The bottom line is the Indians will be an interesting team to watch in Nashville.

There's no way we trade anything of value to the tigers, right? Their specs suck.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/ ... s-for-2013

I don't see any four player combo in that list, even including any comp draft pick(S), that I'd trade Asdrubal for and I wouldn't help them even if it really helped us. Imagine the Browns trading a Pro Bowl guy to the Stillers.


Rocky, that list doesn't include Drew Smyly! I really like him -- I think I posted back on this site years ago in the draft that the Indians should look at him as a Drew Pomeranz-lite in that he's a lefty that throws very tall with good downward plane on his fastball and curveball. Smyly is good and was underrated b/c he was a draft eligible sophomore at Arkansas. Smyly reminds me a little of Cliff Lee (coincidentally both went to Arkansas); their stuff is quite similar coming from similar arm slots/angles. Smyly doesn't defend his position well the way he falls off the mound, but whatever.

It's tough to trade Cabrera in division, but Smyly could step right into the rotation and it'd be perfectly justified to fans. Heck, Smyly could be #2 or #3 in the rotation right off the bat. Detroit would be hesitant getting rid of him, but I'd really try to make something work and also get some other pieces, such as Crosby (using other players, such as Chris Perez??) b/c he fits just what the Indians should want.

John Sickels doesn't like him much, but Casey Crosby is a talented LHP prospect close to the majors. He's also in the Cliff Lee mold.

I think Detroit has the arms to interest in the Indians, in that they are impact types that are close to the majors. Smyly is already there and effective, so I wonder if the Tigers would even want to trade him but he's just their #5 starter. With Verlander, Scherzer, Fister and Porcello, if the Tigers sign Anibal Sanchez, Smyly is absolutely expendable, but there seem to be a lot of variables at play.

I see a really good potential fit. I know people don't want to trade MLB talent to the Tigers, but the Indians would be getting Smyly (if offered), who'd step right into the MLB rotation which is what the Indians need. Smyly could even be the Indians best pitcher very early.

No fair OB, you went off of the list. Where did you hear that Smyly was available? Why would the tigers even do that? I keep waiting for Scherzer to break down. If they lost Smyly & Scherzer they'd be up shite creek. It's not like they dominated the division even with all of their pitching.

Sure, Smyly+ for Asdrubal. The tigers might not want to do the (+) but hold their feet to the fire. Smyly & Crosby would be acceptable. Laughing to remember the fuss mcreek & I made about the tigers drafting Crosby & complaining that the Tribe didn't draft those kinds of high upside HS pitchers. He's a project though & older than Smyly. Great arm. Not sure the command will ever happen.

Of course, you know what would happen: like all of our departed heroes, Asdrubal would suddenly "get religion" on conditioning, play like an All Star for a full season, and get extended by ths Lousy Effing tigers for six more years. He'd end up doing for them what Manny did for Boston.

On second thought, let's not chance it. Trade him to the NL. Skaggs will be as good as Smyly. Or, since Homer's list links all of our guys to the Mets, let's trade all three for Harvey & Wheeler.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:49 pm

I'm not sure what to think about the Mets, they seem kind of like a team off the board so to speak but I've heard 5/6 of the guys I posted linked there. I've heard the Mets wouldn't spend this offseason, does that mean they go for trades? I don't know, I'm not sure they have legit interest and like I said (later) that list was a compilation of rumors and from various sources. We all know its very fluid but the point of the list was showing some of the teams the a tribe will potentially be linked to, I tried to associate the teams with specific players but a lot of rumors are just that.

As I mentioned the Yanks have been linked to Santana (ESPN) does that mean the Yanks and Tribe will actually seriously talk about Santana probably not, it's probably more of the Yanks have interest but have done nothing more than inquire about his availability. For clarity I wasn't trying to project which teams the Tribe would make the moves with just associate some teams and rumors of interest entering the winter mtgs.

I expect the Tribe will make a cpl of deals this coming week and wouldn't be overly shocked if the Tribe pulled off a deal with a cpl of teams they have been linked to in rumors, but you never know sometimes a team seems to come out of no where and make a deal. Could it be the Mariners this yr? They could have legit interest in a number of players (ACab, Choo).

I'm just kidding saying this but maybe the Tribe could pull off Choo and Marson for RA Dickey. :biggrin
Last edited by homerawayfromhome on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:54 pm

Anyone with any bold predictions before the Winter Mtgs begin?

I've read a cpl predictions that Jimenez is generating a little interest in a low risk / reward type move and will be traded - that's not my prediction just repeating a rumor /prediction I've read in a cpl different places, I thought was interesting.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:32 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Anyone with any bold predictions before the Winter Mtgs begin?

I've read a cpl predictions that Jimenez is generating a little interest in a low risk / reward type move and will be traded - that's not my prediction just repeating a rumor /prediction I've read in a cpl different places, I thought was interesting.


I think that one originated through the San Diego Padres organization. With Buddy Black still there, if anyone not named dave duncan can fix what ails Ubaldo, bud black would be the guy. The price tag is right in their budget. The Padres may attempt to go with two career rehabs for one, acquiring Haren (as a FA) and Ubaldo in a trade for a prospect. While it's not likely,... trade candidates could be Jedd Gyorko, Max Fried or Walker Weickel.
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(with the appropriate caveats for waiting a year after a player is drafted and or named as a PTBNL'd type deal where needed to allow a deal to be consummated)..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:07 am

From Jon Morosi on the Twitter

@jonmorosi: Source: Asdrubal Cabrera has 6-team no-trade clause, covering Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Nationals, Giants, Mets. @MLBONFOX

@jonmorosi: On Asdrubal Cabrera no-trade: It's not that he wants to avoid those cities. They are teams that are wealthy/aggressive enough to want him.

@jonmorosi: If team wants to send you to club on no-trade you can demand money in return for permission. This is how savvy agents and players do it.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby BrianM » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:16 am

GoTribe028 wrote:From Jon Morosi on the Twitter

@jonmorosi: Source: Asdrubal Cabrera has 6-team no-trade clause, covering Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Nationals, Giants, Mets. @MLBONFOX

@jonmorosi: On Asdrubal Cabrera no-trade: It's not that he wants to avoid those cities. They are teams that are wealthy/aggressive enough to want him.

@jonmorosi: If team wants to send you to club on no-trade you can demand money in return for permission. This is how savvy agents and players do it.


Can someone explain this to me?
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby daingean » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:24 am

BrianM wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:From Jon Morosi on the Twitter

@jonmorosi: Source: Asdrubal Cabrera has 6-team no-trade clause, covering Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Nationals, Giants, Mets. @MLBONFOX

@jonmorosi: On Asdrubal Cabrera no-trade: It's not that he wants to avoid those cities. They are teams that are wealthy/aggressive enough to want him.

@jonmorosi: If team wants to send you to club on no-trade you can demand money in return for permission. This is how savvy agents and players do it.


Can someone explain this to me?


Asdrubal has a no-trade clause with those teams. Many times players waive the no-trade after renegotiating their contracts. Those teams are ones that that the $$$ for Asdrubal to negotiate a nice raise while extending his current contract. Not sure about the "savvy" part because many times this eliminates those big spenders from the equation (or reduces them as options) because then trades are not apples to apples. Part of what makes Asdrubal attractive is his contract is team friendly (wrt his production).
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby ironmike » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:28 am

Simple, Brian, Asdrubal, if traded to an impact team from the developmental team he now plays for, he and his agent want leverage to have his current two-year deal re-done. Happens all the time.

The term "developmental team" comes from Scott Boras, the only agent who tells it like it is regarding the Indians.

Gained a lot of resect for Boras after reading he was a minor player for the Cardinals so he's been around the game a long time and knows the in's and out's.

Boras, like many agents don't believe the Indians under Dolan are capable of winning. They also believe the Indians payroll annually could be sustained at the $80 million range. What is the difference between $80 million and $65-68 million in ML talent? A couple of really good players and it removes the situation of not having to trade away established players. It would help the Indians be in the class of a contender.

As Aramis Ramirez said a few years back, players don't want to come to the Indians because they can't establish roots here. It is not a good situation for their families when they can have it their way in other cities. It has nothing to do with the city of Cleveland or the surrounding communities. It is all about a comfort level for them, security.

To all the faithful here, would not be proud of the fact we need to trade established players this off-season because we drafted poorly for a decade, made lousy long term commitments to players like Hafner and overall poor evaluations by our front office. Trading guys now is a result of ALL of that, not a good time if you are and Indians fan.

Hope, once the STO sale goes through the Dolan's get serious with Goldman Sachs and get the next deal done. We don't need a filthy rich owner, just and owner who knows how to create a great business plan for our market, who is dedicated to player development and most importantly understands the values of hiring exceptional baseball people. If this sounds like the Dick Jacobs formula ... it is.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:50 am

There's rumors out there that the Dodgers are making Dee Gordon available for the right price. Probably not new news to many on here but Gordon is only 24 and would be controllable for a team for a number of yrs. Gordon was #26 rated prospect in baseball a few yrs back over two seasons he has one seasons worth of at bats with a single homer, he's got over 50 SB though. Gordon would be a controllable speedy option for teams. I think it has no bearing really on ACab, bc teams wanting the bettr option will go after him, but teams turned off by the price of ACab could turn to Gordon as a option.

Per mlbtraderumors.com Detroit does not have interest in ACab. Not sure if its true or talk but the Tigers could be a team with interest in CPerez.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:57 am

Over the weekend, the San Diego Union Tribune's Bill Center had the following story regarding the Padres potential interest in Ubaldo:

...It is clear what Byrnes is shopping for – starting pitching.

He would like to add two starting pitchers to the Padres cast of potential starters. And he’s thinking more in terms of trading for rotation depth than seeking it via free agency. And given the Padres already lengthy list of injured and rehabbing starting pitchers, he’d prefer to add a pitcher with a history of durability over one that has a checkered medical past.

Which is why a name like Ubaldo Jimenez is likely more prominent on Byrnes’ wish list than those of Dan Haren and Daisuke Matsuzaka.

“It might not be the time to take a flyer on a health risk,” said Byrnes. “We already have a lot of guys who are questions because of injuries. We think in another year, we’re going to have solid depth in starting pitching. Right now, we could use a durable starter who we can count on.

“Clearly, trades make more sense for what we’re trying to do. The free agent market prices are higher than they should be. We’ve spent more time discussing trades than free agents.”

Acquiring Jimenez would take a trade with Cleveland. And the Indians seem ready to discuss a trade involving Jimenez. But what would it take? And what are the Padres offering?

The Padres have depth at the corner outfield slots, in the bullpen and at middle infield. The names most often mentioned as possible trade chips are relief pitchers Luke Gregerson and Joe Thatcher and outfielder-first baseman Jesus Guzman...


The Padres may have a few players that would interest the Indians. Carlos Quentin has an NTC, so he's out. Jesus Guzman fits the profile and could be available. Logan Forsythe (3B/INF) and Andrew Cashner (who was shut down for a lat strain after being "stretched out" to become a starter) could also interest the Indians.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:There's rumors out there that the Dodgers are making Dee Gordon available for the right price. Probably not new news to many on here but Gordon is only 24 and would be controllable for a team for a number of yrs. Gordon was #26 rated prospect in baseball a few yrs back over two seasons he has one seasons worth of at bats with a single homer, he's got over 50 SB though. Gordon would be a controllable speedy option for teams. I think it has no bearing really on ACab, bc teams wanting the bettr option will go after him, but teams turned off by the price of ACab could turn to Gordon as a option.

Per mlbtraderumors.com Detroit does not have interest in ACab. Not sure if its true or talk but the Tigers could be a team with interest in CPerez.


Dee Gordon would be a nice complimentary piece to a larger trade with the Indians for what the Dodgers really want: a replacement for one of Chris Capuano, Ted Lilly &/or Aaron Harang. The Dodgers first choice is to flex their financial muscle & sign Zach Greinke. If the Rangers sign Greinke (where I'm guessing he lands), then the Dodgers may focus on acquiring a guy like Justin Masterson. Adding Dee Gordon would make the movement of Asdrubal less painful, however, only if the Indians can acquire a guy they really want from the Dodgers. That could include Zack Lee, Chris Reed, Alex Castellanos &/or Joc Pederson. Yasiel Puig and some of his salary to go with Dee Gordon might also be considered.

The acquisition of Puig would solve the Indians LF problems for years.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:21 am

There were a cpl other sources speaking of a potential Jimenez to SD trade too. I find it investing, didn't really think anyone would have much interest in Ubaldo although with his résumé (2010), stuff and cost $$$ I figured a team would inquire. It seems there might be some interest or this just one those media generated rumors? IE it sounds like it could be a fit.

I'll throw a minor leaguer's name out there...
Matthew Wisler - RHSP a former OH prep arm and former Ohio St. commit. He's only 20 and a few yrs away but went from throwing low 90s in HS to mid and upper 90s now. In a one for one trade he might be an option.

I think we'd probably be more talking in the lines of Jimenez for Guzman IMO though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:34 am

Mlbtraderumors.com is reporting Padres are close to signing Jason Marquis -RHSP.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:34 am

While Guzman may be the main guy being returned in a Ubaldo trade, it just seems implausible for the Indians to trade away any pitcher (CP, Masterson, Ubaldo, Huff, others) without returning at least one pitcher in return. That pitcher can be a low level minor league player with significant upside or a ML'er, already.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:46 am

There may be more competition for one of the acquisition targets in the Pre-Winter Meetings primer from Tony: Kevin Youkilis. The Yankees may have raised interest due to a report that Alex Rodriguez will be undergoing another surgery on his hip that will keep him out of the Yankees lineup for a significant part of the first half of the 2013 season.

Youkilis as a third baseman, as Hermie has stated, isn't such a great idea, but, may be one of the few ideas that exist. Jack Hannahan could also work as a fillin in, making his potential return to the Indians less likely..
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am

I completely agree, Geronimo Son the Tribe will be looking to add pitching first and foremost. We could see the Tribe add several young starters through trades and then maybe pull off a Jimenez trade. The Tribe could easily offset his production for the same money ($5-6M) on guys like Carlos Villanueva and / or Joe Blanton both of whom could fall into that price range (or less) and both of whom could potentially log Jimenez's innings.

Maybe the Tribe could work a deal like Jimenez and Phelps for Guzman and Wisler.

I'm not sure which direction the Tribe goes at 1b after claiming Mike McDade from the Jays last wk. They could bring in Canzler, Anderson and McDade in competition for the job and look to focus on the rotation and OF. Doubt they do that, but could be a outside possibility.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:28 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:I completely agree, Geronimo Son the Tribe will be looking to add pitching first and foremost. We could see the Tribe add several young starters through trades and then maybe pull off a Jimenez trade. The Tribe could easily offset his production for the same money ($5-6M) on guys like Carlos Villanueva and / or Joe Blanton both of whom could fall into that price range (or less) and both of whom could potentially log Jimenez's innings.

Maybe the Tribe could work a deal like Jimenez and Phelps for Guzman and Wisler.

I'm not sure which direction the Tribe goes at 1b after claiming Mike McDade from the Jays last wk. They could bring in Canzler, Anderson and McDade in competition for the job and look to focus on the rotation and OF. Doubt they do that, but could be a outside possibility.


The answer to which direction the Indians are proceeding on should be revealed by the end of the winter meetings. If the Indians are as active as they can be, then it will signal a 'reformation' of the existing club and, perhaps, a complete rebuild with an eye toward sooner rather than later to compete. If the Indians are not hugely active and come away from the winter meetings with a piece or two, then they may be considering that being in first place in the AL Central for a longer time period than any of the last two winners was NOT a fluke.

BTW, I like the McDade acquisition. If it's Canzler, Anderson and McDade duking it out for the 1st base spot, there are worse things. We know Canzler can hit (he crushes lefties) and has a history of getting on base in the minors. The question remains, is his offense good enough to overcome his deficiency defensively. McDade and Anderson are both bigger question marks.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:38 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Mlbtraderumors.com is reporting Padres are close to signing Jason Marquis -RHSP.


resigning*
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:47 am

The Nationals considering a trade with the Rays is more than a little interesting. The player moving to the Rays would be Daniel Espinosa, the Nats starting 2B. With Ian Desmond at SS, the Nats could be either trade for a 2B (Asdrubal?) or start the season with Lombardozzi as their starting 2B while preparing the move of Anthony Rendon from the left to the right side of the infield.

Coupling the possibility of Adam LaRoche signing with the Red Sox, that would put the Nats in a position where they would need to move Mike Morse to 1B leaving " holes" at 2B and corner OF'er. Wouldn't the pair of Asdrubal and Choo going to the Nats make for a very nice little package for the Nats?

and.. wouldn't the return of a passel of prospects that could include Anthony Rendon, Lucas Giolito, Tyler Moore and or Matt Purke make a very nice "blow it up, but move in the immediate right direction" change to the Indians intent going into the 2013 season? Pure speculation, but it's one of those, it makes sense to a point. The only ingredient missing is intent.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:21 pm

Mlbtraderumors.com Mike Napoli to the Red Sox for 3 yrs $39 mil. Steep price - shorter deal (4yrs) than Napoli wanted reportedly though.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:43 pm

Buster Olney just tweeted that the Indians had strong interest in James Loney before he signed with Tampa.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:13 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The Nationals considering a trade with the Rays is more than a little interesting. The player moving to the Rays would be Daniel Espinosa, the Nats starting 2B. With Ian Desmond at SS, the Nats could be either trade for a 2B (Asdrubal?) or start the season with Lombardozzi as their starting 2B while preparing the move of Anthony Rendon from the left to the right side of the infield.

Coupling the possibility of Adam LaRoche signing with the Red Sox, that would put the Nats in a position where they would need to move Mike Morse to 1B leaving " holes" at 2B and corner OF'er. Wouldn't the pair of Asdrubal and Choo going to the Nats make for a very nice little package for the Nats?

and.. wouldn't the return of a passel of prospects that could include Anthony Rendon, Lucas Giolito, Tyler Moore and or Matt Purke make a very nice "blow it up, but move in the immediate right direction" change to the Indians intent going into the 2013 season? Pure speculation, but it's one of those, it makes sense to a point. The only ingredient missing is intent.


Nats have Werth and Harper in the cOF spots...don't see Choo being of any interest to them. Wouldn't surprise me if the Nats gave Tyler Moore a crack at 1B if they move Morse and let LaRoche walk.
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Re: MLB Hot Stove

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:23 pm

I have been biting my tongue for awhile. But many of you are probably about to besorely or at least partially disappointed.

The inidans aren't going to squat at the winter meeting in regards to signing any worthwhile FA's. Sure they were in on Loney until.......We will be hearing variations of this all week.I really hope I am wrong but the only way the indians add anybody is going to be via trade - and there are a lot of scenarios/players involved here - basically everyone in the organization is available.

So maybe we will be surprised I'd love Swisher... But its not happening. Thre is no way the indians offer anyone a 3+ yr deal. So anyone who could be had on a 3 yr deal is possible - but I highly doubt it. I don't expect anything to happen of substance in regards to FA this year. Please review the past couple of off-seasons if you disagree.

IMO the objective for the indians this off-season will be to keep payroll as low as humanly possible. Why? Coupled with the sale of STO and a super-low payroll Dolan is trying to make as much money he possibly can RIGHT NOW. I believe he wants to sell the team and will do whatever it takes to keep the payroll as low as he can get away with in an attempt to improve the attractiveness of the team. Seeing how we dont really have any "rock star" players, fancy new stadium etc. to entice a buyer
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