MLB Hot Stove

[GoTribe028]

I don't take that Morosi story at Fox Sports to be much. It seems every national writer unfamiliar with the Indians situation is assuming that they are having a fire sale this offseason. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Everything I have heard is that they plan to contend next season and if they trade their veteran players that they want ML players back and not just prospects. The smart thing may be to just blow it up and rebuild by prospect hunting, but after the Francona hiring and some of the stuff I have heard I just don't get that feeling. I still only see guys like Choo, Cabrera, and Perez being dealt for impact pieces that help them not only in the future but in 2013 right out of the gates.

Personally hope this is true. Morosi just doing his part to keep the hot stove alive. I contend there are more ways than just blowing it up to solidify the rotation.

Also it appears St Louis has made it known they do not intend on looking for a short stop at this time.

[GeronimoSon]

Joe Strauss, who has a pretty decent track record has stated:

..I do believe the Cardinals' interest in Asdrubal Cabrera real. With such a flimsy free agent market for shortstops, a number of teams are intrigued by Cabrera if the Indians are indeed willing to shop him. To compete for Cabrera the Cardinals would have to part with multiple prospects. One of the names you mention would certainly be introduced into talks by the Tribe. The Cardinals' willingness to part with a current or future member of their starting rotation would then be tested. This much is known: the club will not expose itself at SS to the same degree as it did this year. Whether or not Rafael Furcal requires surgery, he will not be viewed as a 145-game player in 2013. The team requires at least depth at the position. With Furcal's contract set to expire after next season, GM John Mozeliak can't ignore landing a potential long-term answer via trade. Should that not pan out, a short-term fix becomes more palatable. My information is that Mozeliak does not envision Pete Kozma as a starting option. He projects as a utility middle infielder.

John Mozeliak has also stated in the St Louis Post dispatch:

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak has concerns about the health of shortstop Rafael Furcal and the team's current ability to replace him if necessary. Furcal sustained a partial tear of his ligament in his right elbow in August, though he is expected to avoid surgery and could be ready for spring training. Mozeliak told InsideSTL.com that if Furcal isn't healthy enough to play, he will need to pursue a shortstop this offseason rather than rely on Peter Kozma, who logged 51 plate appearances in the postseason.

There may be a very small amount of doubt about the Cardinals pursuit of a ML SS, but, they will not sit on the their hands waiting to see if Rafael Furcal's elbow responds like they hope. The addition of Mike Aviles, the potential addition of Matt Adams, a ML ready 1B and Lance Lynn, a ML SP with 18 wins.. seems to fit the mold for competing with ML guys right away

[GoTribe028]

Joe Strauss, who has a pretty decent track record has stated:

..I do believe the Cardinals' interest in Asdrubal Cabrera real. With such a flimsy free agent market for shortstops, a number of teams are intrigued by Cabrera if the Indians are indeed willing to shop him. To compete for Cabrera the Cardinals would have to part with multiple prospects. One of the names you mention would certainly be introduced into talks by the Tribe. The Cardinals' willingness to part with a current or future member of their starting rotation would then be tested. This much is known: the club will not expose itself at SS to the same degree as it did this year. Whether or not Rafael Furcal requires surgery, he will not be viewed as a 145-game player in 2013. The team requires at least depth at the position. With Furcal's contract set to expire after next season, GM John Mozeliak can't ignore landing a potential long-term answer via trade. Should that not pan out, a short-term fix becomes more palatable. My information is that Mozeliak does not envision Pete Kozma as a starting option. He projects as a utility middle infielder.

John Mozeliak has also stated in the St Louis Post dispatch:

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak has concerns about the health of shortstop Rafael Furcal and the team's current ability to replace him if necessary. Furcal sustained a partial tear of his ligament in his right elbow in August, though he is expected to avoid surgery and could be ready for spring training. Mozeliak told InsideSTL.com that if Furcal isn't healthy enough to play, he will need to pursue a shortstop this offseason rather than rely on Peter Kozma, who logged 51 plate appearances in the postseason.

There may be a very small amount of doubt about the Cardinals pursuit of a ML SS, but, they will not sit on the their hands waiting to see if Rafael Furcal's elbow responds like they hope. The addition of Mike Aviles, the potential addition of Matt Adams, a ML ready 1B and Lance Lynn, a ML SP with 18 wins.. seems to fit the mold for competing with ML guys right away

For what it's worth, per Kenny Rosenthal on The Twitter

@Ken_Rosenthal: #STLCards’ Furcal progressing in rehab. Team will not decide whether to pursue another SS until winter mtgs. At this point, not necessary.

[Hermie13]

I don't take that Morosi story at Fox Sports to be much. It seems every national writer unfamiliar with the Indians situation is assuming that they are having a fire sale this offseason. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Everything I have heard is that they plan to contend next season and if they trade their veteran players that they want ML players back and not just prospects. The smart thing may be to just blow it up and rebuild by prospect hunting, but after the Francona hiring and some of the stuff I have heard I just don't get that feeling. I still only see guys like Choo, Cabrera, and Perez being dealt for impact pieces that help them not only in the future but in 2013 right out of the gates.

Agree here (though do think Masterson could be dealt). This is along the lines of what the A's did this past winter, which is what a few of us seem interested in seeing. They traded away what may be the NL Cy Young winner (Gio Gonzalez), All-Star starting pitcher (Cahill), and all-star closer (Bailey) and yet won what was arguably the toughest division in baseball this year. Not too shabby.

[homerawayfromhome]

Here's a link to another article on a potential trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab...
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 1827a.html

[GeronimoSon]

Here's a link to another article on a potential trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab...
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 1827a.html

Seems as if the smoke is starting to 'billow" some.. Adding Seth Blair to the mix.. there's a lot to like about him. It would be a tough choice which would be preferred, Seth Blair or Lance Lynn.. How about both with Matt Adams? After all, the article does say that the bidding will raise the price and neither Lynn nor Blair are considered as part of the Cards top four power pitchers... <shrugs>...

[homerawayfromhome]

I wish the Tribe had that problem. (# of power arms).

It seems the St Louis press considers the Cards interest legit. The clubs lineup quite well and the Cards could push Furcal to 2b that could save his elbow.

The Cards have exactly what the Tribe could use which is big league pitching and a cpl hitters who could man at least 2 pos.
I'd love to see the Tribe land Rosenthal but doubt he's on the table. Lance Lynn and Matt Adams would suffice, although I could see the Tribe having to add a sweetner to the deal like Joe Smith to the deal to get it done.

Here's a link to the Cards top 20 prospects...
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/ipad/

[GeronimoSon]

I wish the Tribe had that problem. (# of power arms).

It seems the St Louis press considers the Cards interest legit. The clubs lineup quite well and the Cards could push Furcal to 2b that could save his elbow.

The Cards have exactly what the Tribe could use which is big league pitching and a cpl hitters who could man at least 2 pos.
I'd love to see the Tribe land Rosenthal but doubt he's on the table. Lance Lynn and Matt Adams would suffice, although I could see the Tribe having to add a sweetner to the deal like Joe Smith to the deal to get it done.

Here's a link to the Cards top 20 prospects...
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/ipad/

The sweetener that would interest the Cardinals the most: Back up catcher Lou Marson. After Yadi, the cardinals cupboard is bare w/r to major league ready back stops..

edit: Just looked at one of my favored blogs about the cardinals, Viva El Birdos (yeah, it's a stoopid name, but it's theirs) and they happen to have an article about the Cardinals needs and specifically their weakness at catcher. Here is the link to the story: http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2012/11/8/3 ... hing-depth

[homerawayfromhome]

Thanks, Gson was just looking for some their fan blogs to get a better feel of their org.
I noticed they only had 2 catchers on the 40. Tony Cruz their backup did post sound numbers but appears a void beyond that.

[homerawayfromhome]

Here's another link to the Cards interest? In ACab...
http://stlouis.sbnation.com/cardinals-r ... tstop-2013

I'm not sure what to make of CA's response when asked if he talked with Mo (Cards GM)... His response was he had not. Not sure if it was true or if this is all fan / media driven. But it seems like there's a match and IMO both teams should pursue it.

[GeronimoSon]

Here's another link to the Cards interest? In ACab...
http://stlouis.sbnation.com/cardinals-r ... tstop-2013

I'm not sure what to make of CA's response when asked if he talked with Mo (Cards GM)... His response was he had not. Not sure if it was true or if this is all fan / media driven. But it seems like there's a match and IMO both teams should pursue it.

I think you are referring to the "..news to me.." comment given to Hoynes by CA. While I cannot be certain, I would guess that the manner in which Hoynes presented the question (i.e "..do you deny that you have spoke with John Mozeliak about trading.. yada yada..") and interpreted by CA allowed him to tell Hoynes to go screw himself while smiling happily...

[GeronimoSon]

Someone seems to have their pulse on the Indians.. Here was a suggested three team deal that was posted by a respondent to a Blue Jays fan (perhaps a DBax fan?) and their reasoning:

To Toronto- Justin Upton OF, Vinnie Pestano RP; Reasining -Toronto gets the OF'er they covet and one of the best set up men in the major leagues that is under team control for four years.

To Arizona- Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Shin-soo Choo OF + 1/2 Cabrera's salary in 2014.; Reasining -Arizona gets the SS they need who will be with them for two years, so, he's not just a rental. The DBax also receive a 5-tool RF'er that can step into the lead off role or third spot in the batting order.

To Cleveland- Yunel Escobar SS, Ryan Wheeler 1B/3B, Trevor Bauer (DBax #1) Jake Marisnick OF (Jays # 2) Aaron Sanchez SP (Jays #3) and Noah Syndergaard SP (Jays # 4); Reasining -Cleveland receives a small amount of salary relief (approximately $ 6 MM for 2013), a potentially solid current 1B, the replacement for Asdrubal Cabrera at SS on a one year rental, a toolsy OF'er and three upside starting pitching prospects they covet.

I think I'd prefer Anthony Gose as the toolsey outfielder, but wouldn't nix the deal either way.

[daingean]

Someone seems to have their pulse on the Indians.. Here was a suggested three team deal that was posted by a respondent to a Blue Jays fan (perhaps a DBax fan?) and their reasoning:

To Toronto- Justin Upton OF, Vinnie Pestano RP; Reasining -Toronto gets the OF'er they covet and one of the best set up men in the major leagues that is under team control for four years.

To Arizona- Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Shin-soo Choo OF + 1/2 Cabrera's salary in 2014.; Reasining -Arizona gets the SS they need who will be with them for two years, so, he's not just a rental. The DBax also receive a 5-tool RF'er that can step into the lead off role or third spot in the batting order.

To Cleveland- Yunel Escobar SS, Ryan Wheeler 1B/3B, Trevor Bauer (DBax #1) Jake Marisnick OF (Jays # 2) Aaron Sanchez SP (Jays #3) and Noah Syndergaard SP (Jays # 4); Reasining -Cleveland receives a small amount of salary relief (approximately $ 6 MM for 2013), a potentially solid current 1B, the replacement for Asdrubal Cabrera at SS on a one year rental, a toolsy OF'er and three upside starting pitching prospects they covet.

I think I'd prefer Anthony Gose as the toolsey outfielder, but wouldn't nix the deal either way.

I want no part of Yunel.......He's a cancer......Atlanta got tired of his act and from what I heard Toronto has too and they are desperate to jettison.

[GeronimoSon]

Here's a trade suggested in the Notes of MLB Trade Rumors by an obvious Boston Red Sox fan:

Proposed Red Sox ---Indians trade: Lester, Bailey, Salty, Ells and Iglesias for Cabrera, Perez the closer, Masterson, Choo and Santana. More a change of scenery that might get both teams a fresh start.

Hmm.. if cash/finances weren't an issue.. this trade isn't as bad as the many comments following its posting. Here's what I mean:

John Lester & Francona worked well.. and he is without a doubt a serious FOR SP.

Andrew Bailey was out most of the 2012 season after surgery, but came back to finish the season. It was a thumb injury, not an elbow or shoulder. He's an experienced closer and would fill the role for departed CP.

Jerrod Saltalamacchia is an okay defensive backstop, otherwise, he's a FPOS addition to this trade. Lavarnway would be a better option as he would be under team control for a lot longer..

Jacoby Ellsbury: Other than some freakish injuries, he's everything a team wants in a CF'er. He gets on base, he runs better than anyone in the Indians farm system, he hits for both power and average. His arm is the only thing about him that isn't plus..

Jose Iglesias is a solid defensive SS, otherwise, he's a throw in.

If the Red Sox would include Matt Barnes & Xander Bogaerts in this deal, then this trade would be closer to fair & have to be considered...

[GeronimoSon]

...I want no part of Yunel.......He's a cancer......Atlanta got tired of his act and from what I heard Toronto has too and they are desperate to jettison...

I could see the Indians "jettisoning" Yunel in a separate deal with, for example, the Yankees. The Yankees who would be looking at a short term back up or replacement for Derek Jeter during his rehabilitation from surgery. At $ 5 MM, that's chump change to the Yankees and fits into their efforts to get under the Competitive Balance Tax threshold for 2014. A minor trade would be something like Yunel Escobar to the Yankees for Jose Ramirez, Zoilo Almonte or Austin Aune.. something like that..

[Hermie13]

Someone seems to have their pulse on the Indians.. Here was a suggested three team deal that was posted by a respondent to a Blue Jays fan (perhaps a DBax fan?) and their reasoning:

To Toronto- Justin Upton OF, Vinnie Pestano RP; Reasining -Toronto gets the OF'er they covet and one of the best set up men in the major leagues that is under team control for four years.

To Arizona- Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Shin-soo Choo OF + 1/2 Cabrera's salary in 2014.; Reasining -Arizona gets the SS they need who will be with them for two years, so, he's not just a rental. The DBax also receive a 5-tool RF'er that can step into the lead off role or third spot in the batting order.

To Cleveland- Yunel Escobar SS, Ryan Wheeler 1B/3B, Trevor Bauer (DBax #1) Jake Marisnick OF (Jays # 2) Aaron Sanchez SP (Jays #3) and Noah Syndergaard SP (Jays # 4); Reasining -Cleveland receives a small amount of salary relief (approximately $ 6 MM for 2013), a potentially solid current 1B, the replacement for Asdrubal Cabrera at SS on a one year rental, a toolsy OF'er and three upside starting pitching prospects they covet.

I think I'd prefer Anthony Gose as the toolsey outfielder, but wouldn't nix the deal either way.

I want no part of Yunel.......He's a cancer......Atlanta got tired of his act and from what I heard Toronto has too and they are desperate to jettison.

I don't see why the Tribe would have to pick up half Cabrera's 2014 salary here. $10M is a lot for Cabrera but not that crazy if he gets close to 20 HRs again. Don't see the Tribe paying $5M to send Cabrera eslewhere no matter what we get in return.

I'd have no issue getting Yunel. I know he has issues but one big reason Francona got the Boston job was he was considered very good at handling players like that and media situations that can arise from it. One thing to point out is he actually would not be a 1 year rental as far as I see. He has not one but two $5M team options (2014 and 2015). Unless there's something where they can voided somehow, he'd be around a while. I really like his defense and if he could get back to 2011 levels he'd be IMO an improvement over Cabrera. That said, don't see this trade happening. Tribe already deal Esmil, moving Pestano would really hurt the backend I still think Perez is gonna get dealt as well.

[homerawayfromhome]

Completely agree we will see Chris Perez dealt. I would say Joe Smith goes sometime (deadline) too. I like them both but the reality is they both likely get moved at some point.

As for ACab getting traded I'm a fan of moving him to STL for Lynn and Adams / Carpenter.

I know the Tribe has mentioned being open to move anyone, with that RE: I think we may see the Tribe move any of the following...Masterson, Choo, CPerez, ACab, Smith and Marson. It seems to me the Tribe might be willing to pkg a cpl of these guys to get the deal done. In fact I think they should IF that's the difference in landing a deal like...

ACab and Smith for Lynn and Adams
OR
Masterson and Choo for Bard, Dobrount, Barnes, Brentz

[GoTribe028]

Red Sox made an interesting signing this morning. Picked up catcher David Ross on a 2 year deal for 6.2 million.

[GeronimoSon]

Red Sox made an interesting signing this morning. Picked up catcher David Ross on a 2 year deal for 6.2 million.

Red Sox fans seem to think this signing is a jumping off point for a trade of a package that could/would include Lavarnway, Salty, Ellsbury and or others.. The Red Sox offer the Indians quite a few 'interesting players" that could help the club this season and on into the coming seasons...

[homerawayfromhome]

There were rumors the Rangers tried to pull off a three way trade with the Braves sending Andrelton Simmons to Dbax and Upton to TX don't know what other parts were in talks but I could see the Tribe and Rangers involved in some sort of three way trade that would send ACab to the Dbax. Just saying the could be a number of ways things get done, but I think we will see the Tribe active in a number of deals.

I'd love to see the Tribe land Lynn and Adams from the Cards if possible for ACab. Derek Holland would be an interesting arm from the Rangers if they get involved in a deal with them, I have heard they have called on Masterson---not sure how true it is though. Also, the Red Sox and Tribe could obviously match up for a number of moves, two names the Tribe should pursue from the Red Sox in any deal...Matt Barnes the hard throwing righty with top of the rotation stuff and Bryce Brentz the talented RH hitting RF. I could see Lavarnway as part of a larger pkg. with the RedSox, he'd probably land at 1b/DH with the Tribe.

[GoTribe028]

From Jerry Crasnick on The Twitterverse

Free agent Shane Victorino on the radar with #redsox, #rangers, #indians, #reds, among other clubs in the OF market.

In other words, don't expect the Indians to be serious bidders.

[homerawayfromhome]

Rumors galore RE: Red Sox signing Ross... Could be they have something in place to move either Salty or Lavarnway or could be looking at moving one of them to first. My guess they trade one of the others in a deal.

Btw, that puts the Braves in need of a C, particularly with McCann coming off of shldr surgery.

[GeronimoSon]

Atlanta absolutely have a need for a catcher to step in for McCann at the outset of the 2013 season and have significant need for an outfielder who can team up with Jason Heyward. The Braves have some pretty interesting pitching prospects to trade as well. The question becomes, will the Braves make one of Zeke Spruill, Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, Brian Beachy and/or Mike Minor available? and at what price?.

[Rocky55]

From Jerry Crasnick on The Twitterverse

Free agent Shane Victorino on the radar with #redsox, #rangers, #indians, #reds, among other clubs in the OF market.

In other words, don't expect the Indians to be serious bidders.

Interesting that the Phillies aren't mentioned. They must have soured on Victorino. Amaro was on MLB & was asked if they were interested in Hamilton or Upton. Amaro replies "Send them all." Basically said that if the guy's an OF, they're interested.

[Rocky55]

Heard on MLB Network possible Rays/AZ trade, Upton for a #1/2 SP. Moore was mentioned. Also said that Price wouldn't qualify because he's a FA after next year.

Does this make any sense? The Rays to lose their best pitcher after next year but may be dealing his in house replacement for an OF? Any OF?

Also kinda shots down any Asdrubal to DBacks ideas, at least for pitching. DBacks trading for pitching, why would they trade it away? Then again maybe that give them an even bigger surplus.

[GeronimoSon]

Heard on MLB Network possible Rays/AZ trade, Upton for a #1/2 SP. Moore was mentioned. Also said that Price wouldn't qualify because he's a FA after next year.

Does this make any sense? The Rays to lose their best pitcher after next year but may be dealing his in house replacement for an OF? Any OF?

Also kinda shots down any Asdrubal to DBacks ideas, at least for pitching. DBacks trading for pitching, why would they trade it away? Then again maybe that give them an even bigger surplus.

Baseball Axiom: When you think you have enough pitching, go get more... The ugliest girl at the dance can still "...go home with her chosen "husband for the night" when the herd thins around midnight.." With pitching, either your current staff or an excess of riches, you can use the excess to fill the holes your team may have..

The Rays appear to stirring the pot by setting up a "bait and switch".. Get other teams like the Dbax, Dodgers, etc.. interested/excited/hormonal as it relates to their young and talented pitchers.. Then trade the guy they really don't want to keep around for financial / performance issues (Shields / Hellickson) for the same players they wanted in the first place.
Players like Justin Upton or Andrew McCutchen. This way the Rays can get closer to scoring 850 runs !!

[Rocky55]

Heard on MLB Network possible Rays/AZ trade, Upton for a #1/2 SP. Moore was mentioned. Also said that Price wouldn't qualify because he's a FA after next year.

Does this make any sense? The Rays to lose their best pitcher after next year but may be dealing his in house replacement for an OF? Any OF?

Also kinda shots down any Asdrubal to DBacks ideas, at least for pitching. DBacks trading for pitching, why would they trade it away? Then again maybe that give them an even bigger surplus.

Baseball Axiom: When you think you have enough pitching, go get more... The ugliest girl at the dance can still "...go home with her chosen "husband for the night" when the herd thins around midnight.." With pitching, either your current staff or an excess of riches, you can use the excess to fill the holes your team may have..

The Rays appear to stirring the pot by setting up a "bait and switch".. Get other teams like the Dbax, Dodgers, etc.. interested/excited/hormonal as it relates to their young and talented pitchers.. Then trade the guy they really don't want to keep around for financial / performance issues (Shields / Hellickson) for the same players they wanted in the first place.
Players like Justin Upton or Andrew McCutchen. This way the Rays can get closer to scoring 850 runs !!

I can see Shields+/Hellickson+ for Upton but if I'm the Rays, I'm not trading Moore. Period.

[Rocky55]

Some of the same old stuff but it's another vote for a total rebuild.

http://www.clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/

Don't agree with moving Pestano.

[GeronimoSon]

Some of the same old stuff but it's another vote for a total rebuild.

http://www.clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/

Don't agree with moving Pestano.

Perhaps, what you really mean is that you would prefer to see the Indians retain the services of Vinnie Pestano as he offers the Indians one of the better set up men in MLB and could possibly step in as the closer when CP's contract allows him to become a FA. I couldn't agree more from that perspective..

However..

Alan the C is right.. Pestano's value, both real and perceived are at an acme. He'll never be valued higher than he is right now. IF the Indians were in a position where they were obviously ready to dominate the AL Central, then he should NEVER be moved. But, sadly, that's not the case as we sit here right now. Pestano just happens to be one of the Indians strengths in an area where they have several options that may replace him. And a team with the number of holes to fill that the Indians have cannot afford to thumb their nose at a means to fill them..

[Rocky55]

Some of the same old stuff but it's another vote for a total rebuild.

http://www.clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/

Don't agree with moving Pestano.

Perhaps, what you really mean is that you would prefer to see the Indians retain the services of Vinnie Pestano as he offers the Indians one of the better set up men in MLB and could possibly step in as the closer when CP's contract allows him to become a FA. I couldn't agree more from that perspective..

However..

Alan the C is right.. Pestano's value, both real and perceived are at an acme. He'll never be valued higher than he is right now. IF the Indians were in a position where they were obviously ready to dominate the AL Central, then he should NEVER be moved. But, sadly, that's not the case as we sit here right now. Pestano just happens to be one of the Indians strengths in an area where they have several options that may replace him. And a team with the number of holes to fill that the Indians have cannot afford to thumb their nose at a means to fill them..

Trading Perez & Pestano kills the pen, IMO. Pestano's under control through '16. Even with a total rebuild he should be around when we next contend. We'd better be in contention by 2016. Plus, he's in his prime now & unless we can get back more than I think we can, he's more valuable to us than the return would be. I know the minors are flush with relief talent & that the org has shown the ability to develop pen arms but there's no guarantee that even one of those guys becomes a dominant ML pitcher. Pestano is dominant, plus he's an experienced closer, with the closer mentality. I'd vote to keep him.

[Hermie13]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

[Rocky55]

Here's a link to another article on a potential trade between the Cards and Tribe for ACab...
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ ... 1827a.html

Seems as if the smoke is starting to 'billow" some.. Adding Seth Blair to the mix.. there's a lot to like about him. It would be a tough choice which would be preferred, Seth Blair or Lance Lynn.. How about both with Matt Adams? After all, the article does say that the bidding will raise the price and neither Lynn nor Blair are considered as part of the Cards top four power pitchers... <shrugs>...

Have fallen a little behind & just read this. Blair pitched in the AFL game that Ronnie Rod played in last night on MLB Network. He's a mess. He has more walks than K's. He's got a nice BB but no command. He's all over the place mechanically, falling toward 1st, inconsistent foot plant, etc. He's not a project, he's Urban Renewal.

Lynn & Adams seems like a decent return for Droob but Lynn might be a #3 & Adams might be LaPorta. How about the Cards throw in Carson Kelly as a sweetener?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS7XK8MaUlY

[Rocky55]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

Hermie, I'm sure you realize (maybe you don't) that the proper term would be dominant (look it up).

Hermie sez:
"Actually I'd like to talk about intelligently about the Indians...but clearly with you that's just not possible. o well"

Ain't nitpicking fun???

Edit to add: Truce?

[Hermie13]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

Hermie, I'm sure you realize (maybe you don't) that the proper term would be dominant (look it up).

Hermie sez:
"Actually I'd like to talk about intelligently about the Indians...but clearly with you that's just not possible. o well"

Ain't nitpicking fun???

Edit to add: Truce?

ah yes, a post about baseball and you find a typo to talk about. Figures...

Truce? Didn't know one was needed on a forum. Talk about baseball and a truce isn't needed. Pretty simple. Or at least should be...

[Rocky55]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

Hermie, I'm sure you realize (maybe you don't) that the proper term would be dominant (look it up).

Hermie sez:
"Actually I'd like to talk about intelligently about the Indians...but clearly with you that's just not possible. o well"

Ain't nitpicking fun???

Edit to add: Truce?

ah yes, a post about baseball and you find a typo to talk about. Figures...

Truce? Didn't know one was needed on a forum. Talk about baseball and a truce isn't needed. Pretty simple. Or at least should be...

Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective, which you would use before"set up guy" to modify the noun. Wasn't "talking about" it. I was nitpicking. As is your wont. As an example. To illustrate how annoying it is. Like using "Figures..."(see below)

*So you call it a typo? Figures...

[homerawayfromhome]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

[Rocky55]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

The Sox don't believe that they can afford Choo after dumping all of that salary? Sounds like gamesmanship.

"Well, we're not really interested but if you're going to give him away..."

[GeronimoSon]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

Part of the M.O. of the people in the media they tend to feed is a lessening or reduction in value of guys they want to acquire while inflating the value of guys they intend to trade. Guys who are playing out their options with the intent to leave are almost always lepers, quitters and fakers.. See Bobby V's comments about Ortiz before he was resigned to a contract extension, information from Red Sox F.O. about possibly parting ways with Ortiz and the allegations that Ortiz quit when the Adrian Gonzalez trade came to pass.. Now that an extension has been signed.. All that stuff is now Bobby V's fault.. Just like it was Manny's fault when he allegedly quit.

Answer this question.. If Choo is so valueless... why is there so much interest for him?..hhmmmm?

[GeronimoSon]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

The Sox don't believe that they can afford Choo after dumping all of that salary? Sounds like gamesmanship.

"Well, we're not really interested but if you're going to give him away..."

Or what rocky said.. without dominating the conversation with dominant statistics that would otherwise dominate the thread..

[criznit2009]

When it comes to Pestano, he is tradeable period. It really has nothing to do with him, it's strictly about how willing a team is to aquire him. He is very valuable there is no doubt about it, but I find it odd that it is being assumed his value is might be or is as good as it gets. If Pestano put up all-star numbers as a closer in 13.. He becomes even more valuable. A lot more valuable. Trading Perez and sliding Pestano into the closer role has the most value for the indians in a billion different ways. So even though Pestano is "tradeable" I don't think the tribe recieves an offer they feel is equal to value. At least for now. Sometime next year though, who knows.

[GoTribe028]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

Part of the M.O. of the people in the media they tend to feed is a lessening or reduction in value of guys they want to acquire while inflating the value of guys they intend to trade. Guys who are playing out their options with the intent to leave are almost always lepers, quitters and fakers.. See Bobby V's comments about Ortiz before he was resigned to a contract extension, information from Red Sox F.O. about possibly parting ways with Ortiz and the allegations that Ortiz quit when the Adrian Gonzalez trade came to pass.. Now that an extension has been signed.. All that stuff is now Bobby V's fault.. Just like it was Manny's fault when he allegedly quit.

Answer this question.. If Choo is so valueless... why is there so much interest for him?..hhmmmm?

Nobody said Choo was valueless. Why is is so unbelievable that a team MIGHT, just might not be interesting I'm surrendering what it may take to acquire a player for only 1 season? With Boras representing both Ellsbury & Choo, who are in their final years before FA, it's not totally inconceivable that a team doesn't want to surrender a fantasy package of prospects for your overvalued Cleveland Indian that will only net them a draft pick.

[GeronimoSon]

HardballTalk is reporting the Red Sox have cooled on the idea of Choo bc of the lack of control past this yr. One thing is certain the Red Sox among others would have the money to sign him after next yr. I won't totally buy it, although I can see that it will mean he would likely cost less if he had more yrs beside his name. Choo would net them a comp pk IF he was traded there prior to next season and he declined their offer.

Part of the M.O. of the people in the media they tend to feed is a lessening or reduction in value of guys they want to acquire while inflating the value of guys they intend to trade. Guys who are playing out their options with the intent to leave are almost always lepers, quitters and fakers.. See Bobby V's comments about Ortiz before he was resigned to a contract extension, information from Red Sox F.O. about possibly parting ways with Ortiz and the allegations that Ortiz quit when the Adrian Gonzalez trade came to pass.. Now that an extension has been signed.. All that stuff is now Bobby V's fault.. Just like it was Manny's fault when he allegedly quit.

Answer this question.. If Choo is so valueless... why is there so much interest for him?..hhmmmm?

Nobody said Choo was valueless. Why is is so unbelievable that a team MIGHT, just might not be interesting I'm surrendering what it may take to acquire a player for only 1 season? With Boras representing both Ellsbury & Choo, who are in their final years before FA, it's not totally inconceivable that a team doesn't want to surrender a fantasy package of prospects for your overvalued Cleveland Indian that will only net them a draft pick.

Value-less.. really?. .you're better than that..

Or. the red sox are using a public relations gambit to publicly devalue a player in an attempt to lower the price they're going to have to pay to acquire him. If the Indians don't get what they see as equal value in return, then Choo will have Chief Wahoo on his sleeve for the 2013 season. At least until the trading deadline approaches and the abomination that will be the Boston Red Sox including a punch-less outfield will have the Fenway Faithful crying while eating at Udi's where they can get their Fenway Franks in gluten free hot dog buns, or they can nibble on gluten free pizzas, while sucking down obscenely over priced Redbridge beer...

[GeronimoSon]

Ahhh.. just gotta love the hypocrisy.. The John Paul Morosi's and Nick Carardo's of the "make it up as you go" world have deemed Shin-soo Choo off the radar of the red sox because he'd be only available for one season then would become a free agent represented by Boras..

Guess the same kind of comments about Jacoby Ellsbury being traded to the Rockies for Tulo is a horse of completely different color or makes more sense as long as none of the good prospects are traded for him. Well, the trading of Tulo is never going to happen, yet, this is the same people and place where both 'rumors' were posted.. Oh, and instead of acquiring Shin-soo Choo who could become a FA after the 2013 season (while being paid approximately $ 8 MM), thereby making him too expensive, according to these pundits, the Red Sox are going to pursue Justin Upton who is locked in for the next three years for $ 38.5MM.. sutcha deal.. Really?.. and these guys get paid to express these opinions??????

[homerawayfromhome]

Yeah it's useless spin. I've mentioned previously I could see Choo getting traded and the Tribe potentially adding in Marson, Smith or Hannahan just to get a better deal. That would be my approach...it would add value to the trade by meeting a need of the other team directly while it may diminish the value of the secondary piece in the trade it would 'stabilize' the value or at least help offset the value of Choo who would be a FA.

I'm it buying that...we don't want Choo bc he might walk garbage. It would be much better for a club to get him now than at mid season --- draft pk comp if they offered and he declined.

There are a number of other clubs: TX, Atl, Pitt, Philly, SF, LAA and maybe Seattle that could want the chance to land Choo it's too early IMO to cross anything off the list. Honestly, it's simply when the Tribe trades Choo not IF. I don't see them holding him and offering I'm a contract after next season to land draft pk comp.

My hope is the Tribe lands a cpl OF bats this offseason to offset the move of Choo at a later point.

[timdav]

Whether the Indians trade a player(s) now, wait til next season's trading deadline, or let them walk after declining an offer is probably based on how they judge the value of the package of players offered in return.

In other words, there are always variables....most of which 99.9% of us will never know (unless a deal is actually made).

[Hermie13]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

Hermie, I'm sure you realize (maybe you don't) that the proper term would be dominant (look it up).

Hermie sez:
"Actually I'd like to talk about intelligently about the Indians...but clearly with you that's just not possible. o well"

Ain't nitpicking fun???

Edit to add: Truce?

ah yes, a post about baseball and you find a typo to talk about. Figures...

Truce? Didn't know one was needed on a forum. Talk about baseball and a truce isn't needed. Pretty simple. Or at least should be...

Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective, which you would use before"set up guy" to modify the noun. Wasn't "talking about" it. I was nitpicking. As is your wont. As an example. To illustrate how annoying it is. Like using "Figures..."(see below)

*So you call it a typo? Figures...

Yes, I called it a typo as there were 2 letters messed up. ha, you're right though, you weren't "talking about it"; you were typing about it (yay nitpicking). The grammatical errors in your post here are also pretty ironic. Don't give English/grammar lessons if you are gonna mess up yourself.

And back to baseball (hopefully)....

[Hermie13]

When it comes to Pestano, he is tradeable period. It really has nothing to do with him, it's strictly about how willing a team is to aquire him. He is very valuable there is no doubt about it, but I find it odd that it is being assumed his value is might be or is as good as it gets. If Pestano put up all-star numbers as a closer in 13.. He becomes even more valuable. A lot more valuable. Trading Perez and sliding Pestano into the closer role has the most value for the indians in a billion different ways. So even though Pestano is "tradeable" I don't think the tribe recieves an offer they feel is equal to value. At least for now. Sometime next year though, who knows.

I agree here for the most part though one thing that makes Pestano so valueable in a trade is the fact that he'll make virtually the league minimum in 2013. If he does become our closer and has an All-Star season he'll be in for a big, big raise in arby in 2014 (will get one regardless but again, closer's get vastly overpaid in arby as we've seen). I do think he'd have more value if he showed he could close at the ML level, but even teams like the Yanks are watching their finances/spending nowadays, so a guy like Pestano could have massive value on the market this winter. Do agree with others though, dont think he will be moved as I think you'd need to get even more than the Padres got for Mike Adams and not sure we'll see those kinds of offers.

[Hermie13]

Ahhh.. just gotta love the hypocrisy.. The John Paul Morosi's and Nick Carardo's of the "make it up as you go" world have deemed Shin-soo Choo off the radar of the red sox because he'd be only available for one season then would become a free agent represented by Boras..

Guess the same kind of comments about Jacoby Ellsbury being traded to the Rockies for Tulo is a horse of completely different color or makes more sense as long as none of the good prospects are traded for him. Well, the trading of Tulo is never going to happen, yet, this is the same people and place where both 'rumors' were posted.. Oh, and instead of acquiring Shin-soo Choo who could become a FA after the 2013 season (while being paid approximately $ 8 MM), thereby making him too expensive, according to these pundits, the Red Sox are going to pursue Justin Upton who is locked in for the next three years for $ 38.5MM.. sutcha deal.. Really?.. and these guys get paid to express these opinions??????

I'm probably in the vast minority on this, but I wouldn't deal anything more than Ubaldo Jimenez (and maybe throw in Carrera) for Jacoby Ellsbury if I was looking to deal for him. Yeah he was unreal good in 2011 but a negative fWAR in 2010 while playing in only 18 games and really struggled this year playing in only 74. He has only had 1 year his rookie year with an OPS+ over 100. Steals a ton of bases but take out 2011 and honestly I'd rather have Coco Crisp who put up better OPS+'s than Ellsbury 2 of the last 3 years. Ellsbury is as fragile as Grady it seems. I know the Red Sox would never do a Ubaldo for Ellsbury swap but each had 1 insanely great year as a big outlier in their careers. If Ellsbury is healthy in 2013 I do think he'll be much more valuable than Ubaldo, but I don't think that's a given considering his history to this point...

[GeronimoSon]

Jacoby Ellsbury has the some of the dynamic ability to impact a game like Grady Sizemore.. Playing one year in three, won't net much. For Ellsbury to be considered a viable player with impact ability, he has to prove he can stay ON THE FIELD. Otherwise, he's not even worth Ubaldo...

[Rocky55]

I would definitely move Pestano but would have to get major value in return. Even though he took a step back this year, still a dominate setup guy as mentioned and agree he should be able to step in as closer. If he's not traded (which I don't think he will be) I actually would like to see the Indians try and sign him to a long-term deal, something similar to what they gave Betancourt. Maybe overpay him in 2013 but buyout his arby years at setup man levels vs going to arby with him as a closer. As we are witnessing with Perez, closers get so overpaid in arby it's ridiculous. if you could sign Pestano to say a 4 year $10M deal...could end up saving you a lot of money down the line. Though could blow up in your face if he gets hurt or sucks as a closer, but think it's a gamble worth taking.

Hermie, I'm sure you realize (maybe you don't) that the proper term would be dominant (look it up).

Hermie sez:
"Actually I'd like to talk about intelligently about the Indians...but clearly with you that's just not possible. o well"

Ain't nitpicking fun???

Edit to add: Truce?

ah yes, a post about baseball and you find a typo to talk about. Figures...

Truce? Didn't know one was needed on a forum. Talk about* baseball and a truce isn't needed. Pretty simple. Or at least should be...

Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective, which you would use before"set up guy" to modify the noun. Wasn't "talking about" it. I was nitpicking. As is your wont. As an example. To illustrate how annoying it is. Like using "Figures..."(see below)

*So you call it a typo? Figures...

Yes, I called it a typo as there were 2 letters messed up. ha, you're right though, you weren't "talking about it"; you were typing about it (yay nitpicking). The grammatical errors in your post here are also pretty ironic. Don't give English/grammar lessons if you are gonna mess up yourself.

And back to baseball (hopefully)....

*I didn't say I was "talking about" it. I quoted you. Since you're skeptical that I could go to Baseball Reference & see that John Hart was named GM on 9/18/1991, I see no reason to believe that you mis-typed dominant as dominate.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/execdb/? ... fid=cle#gm

And back to baseball(hopefully)...