Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
From the latest BA hot sheet chat...
Keith (Manchester, CT): Thanks Ben. I know early reports on Dorssys Paulino's glove are mixed, but his offensive stats in rookie ball are amazing for a 17-year-old. Is the bat for real, and how high could his offensive ceiling be?
Ben Badler: I don't think he plays shortstop (probably 3B or 2B), but I also don't think it matters because of how good his bat could be. Great bat speed, the bat head is in the hitting zone forever, he uses the whole field and the approach is light years ahead of most of his peers. He's probably not a monster slugger, but with his ability to hit, get on base, then hit anywhere from 15-20 home runs per year (and he's 17, so maybe there's more to come), that's a dynamic hitter who can fit anywhere from the top to the middle of the lineup.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 13993.html
Keith (Manchester, CT): Thanks Ben. I know early reports on Dorssys Paulino's glove are mixed, but his offensive stats in rookie ball are amazing for a 17-year-old. Is the bat for real, and how high could his offensive ceiling be?
Ben Badler: I don't think he plays shortstop (probably 3B or 2B), but I also don't think it matters because of how good his bat could be. Great bat speed, the bat head is in the hitting zone forever, he uses the whole field and the approach is light years ahead of most of his peers. He's probably not a monster slugger, but with his ability to hit, get on base, then hit anywhere from 15-20 home runs per year (and he's 17, so maybe there's more to come), that's a dynamic hitter who can fit anywhere from the top to the middle of the lineup.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 13993.html
- BrianM
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
OhioBaseball wrote:martyinnewyork wrote:Naquin is in tonight's line-up!!!
I predict that is as excited anyone's ever going to be to see Tyler Naquin in a starting line-up! I'm still a tad bitter about that pick. I really question the strength of any scouting department that wants him at 15th overall even considering the underslot bonus. Sorry.
This guy Paulino has been impressive, though. Seeing a 17-year old batting clean-up in Short-Season A ball and doing well -- not too shabby. Impressive start.
Hey Tommy! Long time know see brother!
Naquin is a nice 4th outfielder on a non contending team like the tribe. Has a great arm, marginal speed, not enough speed to play center, Upside as a hitter similar to Ryan Sweeney. Stupid pick , same as Trevor Crowe.
First John Mirabelli, now the latest idiot Grant who is a clone of this meatball.
BTW, I ran in to your boy Ken Mark Folsom the other day here in Orlando
- Troybuildfitess
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Troybuildfitess wrote:OhioBaseball wrote:martyinnewyork wrote:Naquin is in tonight's line-up!!!
I predict that is as excited anyone's ever going to be to see Tyler Naquin in a starting line-up! I'm still a tad bitter about that pick. I really question the strength of any scouting department that wants him at 15th overall even considering the underslot bonus. Sorry.
This guy Paulino has been impressive, though. Seeing a 17-year old batting clean-up in Short-Season A ball and doing well -- not too shabby. Impressive start.
Hey Tommy! Long time know see brother!
Naquin is a nice 4th outfielder on a non contending team like the tribe. Has a great arm, marginal speed, not enough speed to play center, Upside as a hitter similar to Ryan Sweeney. Stupid pick , same as Trevor Crowe.
First John Mirabelli, now the latest idiot Grant who is a clone of this meatball.
I think too many people are discounting the new draft rules as to why Naquin was taken. By taking Tyler and being sure they could sign him the Tribe was able to take some risks later in the top 10 rounds and get those players signed without penalties. This organization has a number of needs so quality and quanity was needed. Only time will tell if Naquin was a complete miss, a foul tip, a solid pick or surprise home run. Let's give it the needed time to see how it turns out.
- MadThinker88
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
MadThinker88 wrote:Troybuildfitess wrote:OhioBaseball wrote:martyinnewyork wrote:Naquin is in tonight's line-up!!!
I predict that is as excited anyone's ever going to be to see Tyler Naquin in a starting line-up! I'm still a tad bitter about that pick. I really question the strength of any scouting department that wants him at 15th overall even considering the underslot bonus. Sorry.
This guy Paulino has been impressive, though. Seeing a 17-year old batting clean-up in Short-Season A ball and doing well -- not too shabby. Impressive start.
Hey Tommy! Long time know see brother!
Naquin is a nice 4th outfielder on a non contending team like the tribe. Has a great arm, marginal speed, not enough speed to play center, Upside as a hitter similar to Ryan Sweeney. Stupid pick , same as Trevor Crowe.
First John Mirabelli, now the latest idiot Grant who is a clone of this meatball.
I think too many people are discounting the new draft rules as to why Naquin was taken. By taking Tyler and being sure they could sign him the Tribe was able to take some risks later in the top 10 rounds and get those players signed without penalties. This organization has a number of needs so quality and quanity was needed. Only time will tell if Naquin was a complete miss, a foul tip, a solid pick or surprise home run. Let's give it the needed time to see how it turns out.
mcreek? Wow, good to hear from you again! If only Mark Folsom and Will Hartley would have worked out...
MadThinker, as I commented, "even considering the underslot bonus" regarding my criticism of the Naquin selection. The Indians still gave him $1.75 million, which is too much in my opinion. We can give it time to see how it works out, but when you watch Naquin play he really does not look like a first round caliber talent. He's a narrow bodied outfielder that is primarily a slap hitter. I was shocked when the Indians drafted him. The first thought in my mind was the Indians were going to try to convert him to an infield position ala Kipnis b/c taking an OF'er in the mid 1st round with such little power just didn't make sense to me. Naquin's a nice prospect but I think it's going to look like a bad pick 4-5 years from now. I am biased b/c I like players that can drive the ball, or at least have swings that project to drive the ball for extra bases, and Naquin is not that type.
The money saved on Naquin didn't really go to any big prospects or anything. The money basically went into D'Vone McClure, who is a talented yet very raw prospect. If the Indians actually had a track record of developing raw OF talents into major leaguers I'd be more optimistic about McClure.
I'm sorry but I'm really losing faith in the Indians scouting department and player development staff. They simply aren't developing that many good prospects. They overspent on marginal talents and prospects in the past few drafts with little to show for the investment and there really isn't many later round picks that the Indians developed into legit prospects, outside of a couple of relievers. You'd think that given the amount of money the Indians put into the draft in recent years that they wouldn't have one of the worst farm systems in baseball, but that's where they are.
Taking Tyler Naquin at 15th overall was a joke, even considering the $500k underslot savings. There weren't many great options available, but I pay a fair amount of attention to the draft every year watching players pretty closely, and Tyler Naquin is not a top 30 overall kind of talent. A nice supplemental round guy, but OF'ers with major question marks about their ability to drive the ball and hit for power aren't that good of prospects. You can go back to my posts a year ago previewing the '12 draft class and I said the same. I've been wrong on prospects before, and if Naquin gets to the majors and bats .300+ with 15 HR's then I'll eat crow, but I just don't see it.
Sorry if I seem harsh, but the Indians scouting department lately has not built up enough goodwill for me to pass on questioning the draft pick. I think we're getting close to the time where the Indians need to clean house and hire an entirely new scouting department and player development staff.
- OhioBaseball
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
OB.. your most succinct evaluation of Tyler Naquin was:
And, as I responded:
There is no doubt in my mind, the Indians, at best, have hit a weak single or a foul tip with Naquin based on his initial foray into the minor leagues. The guy that should have been taken, Lucas Giolito has been sidelined w/ the UCL and will have TJ surgery, but he's still a better prospect and has a better future than Tyler Naquin.. The Indians further exacerbated the lack of talent in the minors by not pursuing the Cubans (especially Yoenis Cespedes) Cespedes, Puig, others.. Faith in this approach to building the team.. is clearly shaken...
Tyler Naquin - It scares me to see him being considered in the middle of the first round. No way I'd take this guy in the first round -- far too little upside here, even though he's a nice bat. Only profiles as a 4th outfielder.
And, as I responded:
...In short, he was a bargain signing that has a chance to be a decent/average ML OF'er or fourth OF'er, which is okay but not much more. Naquin didn't profile even close to the upsides of some of the players that were picked behind him in the draft.. The names of players drafted after Naquin that have as much, if not more upside include but are not limited to the Lucas' (Sims and Giolito), Lance McCullers, Richie Shaffer, Victor Roache, Joey Gallo, Lewis Brinson, and Stephen Piscotty...
There is no doubt in my mind, the Indians, at best, have hit a weak single or a foul tip with Naquin based on his initial foray into the minor leagues. The guy that should have been taken, Lucas Giolito has been sidelined w/ the UCL and will have TJ surgery, but he's still a better prospect and has a better future than Tyler Naquin.. The Indians further exacerbated the lack of talent in the minors by not pursuing the Cubans (especially Yoenis Cespedes) Cespedes, Puig, others.. Faith in this approach to building the team.. is clearly shaken...
- GeronimoSon
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Baseball America just released their top 20 prospect list for the New York Penn League.
Tyler Naquin - 16th overall in the league. Very poor ranking for a guy that was given $1.75 million (factoring in the underslot consideration) just a few months ago.
I've already said enough about my displeasure with the selection. Here is some more validation of how scouts and managers view him. Not good. He may be a nice player someday, but he should have gone in the supplemental round.
The Indians need a new scouting department.
Tyler Naquin - 16th overall in the league. Very poor ranking for a guy that was given $1.75 million (factoring in the underslot consideration) just a few months ago.
I've already said enough about my displeasure with the selection. Here is some more validation of how scouts and managers view him. Not good. He may be a nice player someday, but he should have gone in the supplemental round.
The Indians need a new scouting department.
- OhioBaseball
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
BA Top 100 Prospects 2006, a sampling:
#1 Delmon Young
#2 Justin Upton
#3 Brandon Wood
#4 Jeremy Hermida
#6 Francisco Liriano
#7 Chad Billingsley
#8 Justin Verlander
#11 Prince Fielder
# 14 Andy Marte
# 15 Ryan Zimmerman
#17 Conor Jackson
#19 Andy LaRoche
#24 Bobby Jenks
#25 Troy Tulowitski
#28 Daric Barton
#29 Billy Butler
#33 Jeff Clement
#46 Eric Aybar
#49 Ryan Braun
#50 Andrew McCutchen
#53 Jeremy Sowers
#57 Jered Weaver
#71 Brad Snyder
#77 Dustin Pedroia
#94 Ronny Cedeno
#97 Matt Kemp
You get the point. Last thing I do to prove a point is to cite Baseball America.
I agree on Naquin. Somewhere in a post Tony said that Naquin was a high level prospect & would probably skip LC next year & go straight to Carolina. My comment was to question whether or not he should prove he could hit in SS ball first. I think they got this one wrong but what can we do?
#1 Delmon Young
#2 Justin Upton
#3 Brandon Wood
#4 Jeremy Hermida
#6 Francisco Liriano
#7 Chad Billingsley
#8 Justin Verlander
#11 Prince Fielder
# 14 Andy Marte
# 15 Ryan Zimmerman
#17 Conor Jackson
#19 Andy LaRoche
#24 Bobby Jenks
#25 Troy Tulowitski
#28 Daric Barton
#29 Billy Butler
#33 Jeff Clement
#46 Eric Aybar
#49 Ryan Braun
#50 Andrew McCutchen
#53 Jeremy Sowers
#57 Jered Weaver
#71 Brad Snyder
#77 Dustin Pedroia
#94 Ronny Cedeno
#97 Matt Kemp
You get the point. Last thing I do to prove a point is to cite Baseball America.
I agree on Naquin. Somewhere in a post Tony said that Naquin was a high level prospect & would probably skip LC next year & go straight to Carolina. My comment was to question whether or not he should prove he could hit in SS ball first. I think they got this one wrong but what can we do?
- Rocky55
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Naquin was a bad pick. I was citing BA to show that it's not just me! He's a 30-40th overall kind of talent in most drafts. You pay a lot of attention to the draft -- I'm sure you see where I'm coming from.
I absolutely see Naquin in Carolina next year. He's an advanced prospect - I've never said anything otherwise. I wouldn't be shocked to see him hit near .300 (more likely .280-.285) in Carolina in 2013 -- it's just that it'd be a hollow .300 with too many singles. My problem is he's a narrow-bodied (not much projection), slap hitting outfielder with average MLB speed and a good throwing arm. I don't have faith in a scouting department that believes that is a $1.75 million player.
Again, I think he's a nice prospect. I just feel it was a bad use of a 15th overall pick, even considering that he signed underslot.
Sorry, I'm just tired of accepting mediocrity with the organization. My words may be strong, maybe too strong, but the results just aren't there. Look at this organization. It's time we take a look at how we got here. Given that the Indians traded away so much good MLB talent (Sabathia, Lee, Martinez, others) and how much money was invested in the draft, there's no excuse to have such a poor crop of young talent. Many teams spent far less than the Indians in the draft and actually traded prospects away for MLB talent and still they have better farm systems and young MLB talent. People in player personnel with the Indians are lucky they have kept their jobs as long as they have. I'm sure they are smart, good people but at some point value needs to be added to the organization.
I absolutely see Naquin in Carolina next year. He's an advanced prospect - I've never said anything otherwise. I wouldn't be shocked to see him hit near .300 (more likely .280-.285) in Carolina in 2013 -- it's just that it'd be a hollow .300 with too many singles. My problem is he's a narrow-bodied (not much projection), slap hitting outfielder with average MLB speed and a good throwing arm. I don't have faith in a scouting department that believes that is a $1.75 million player.
Again, I think he's a nice prospect. I just feel it was a bad use of a 15th overall pick, even considering that he signed underslot.
Sorry, I'm just tired of accepting mediocrity with the organization. My words may be strong, maybe too strong, but the results just aren't there. Look at this organization. It's time we take a look at how we got here. Given that the Indians traded away so much good MLB talent (Sabathia, Lee, Martinez, others) and how much money was invested in the draft, there's no excuse to have such a poor crop of young talent. Many teams spent far less than the Indians in the draft and actually traded prospects away for MLB talent and still they have better farm systems and young MLB talent. People in player personnel with the Indians are lucky they have kept their jobs as long as they have. I'm sure they are smart, good people but at some point value needs to be added to the organization.
- OhioBaseball
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Here's how I project Tyler Naquin...
CF, RF, LF... Potentially a 4th OF at worst or at best a light-hitting on base type defensive oriented CF.
Can likely stay at CF but would also play at either corner bc of his good speed and powerful throwing arm. However, Naquin will not provide the pop necessary to remain a corner OF IMO. At best he's a top of the lineup lightweight hitter regarding power, but could be on base effectively. Overall I believe his advanced approach and projectability as a middle of the diamond player in CF are part of the reason why the Tribe drafted him. But it should be mentioned it was a below slot pick to save money to grab others like Mitch Brown and DVone McClure. If Lucas Giolito becomes the arm he very well could be, many fans will point to this pk as further Tribe ineptness in drafting. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the pk...I thought they should have went after an arm like Matt Smoral who went at pk 50 and signed for $2 mil. Slot for the pk was $2.25 mil and Naquin signed for $1.75 mil. Smoral was projected anywhere between pks 10-25 and being an Ohio native may have been willing to sign for the same to play close to home.
My overall projection of Naquin would be...
.285-.300 5hrs 25sb All-Star / GG type defense in the OF.
CF, RF, LF... Potentially a 4th OF at worst or at best a light-hitting on base type defensive oriented CF.
Can likely stay at CF but would also play at either corner bc of his good speed and powerful throwing arm. However, Naquin will not provide the pop necessary to remain a corner OF IMO. At best he's a top of the lineup lightweight hitter regarding power, but could be on base effectively. Overall I believe his advanced approach and projectability as a middle of the diamond player in CF are part of the reason why the Tribe drafted him. But it should be mentioned it was a below slot pick to save money to grab others like Mitch Brown and DVone McClure. If Lucas Giolito becomes the arm he very well could be, many fans will point to this pk as further Tribe ineptness in drafting. Personally, I wasn't a fan of the pk...I thought they should have went after an arm like Matt Smoral who went at pk 50 and signed for $2 mil. Slot for the pk was $2.25 mil and Naquin signed for $1.75 mil. Smoral was projected anywhere between pks 10-25 and being an Ohio native may have been willing to sign for the same to play close to home.
My overall projection of Naquin would be...
.285-.300 5hrs 25sb All-Star / GG type defense in the OF.
- homerawayfromhome
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Just doing a bit of research on players ranked between 11th and 20th in the NYPL from 2004 to 2008 (I don't have 2003 rankings, and 2009 is too recent). Those lists have averaged about 2 MLB players per year.
Of all 50 players ranked on those lists over that time period, the only MLB players of consequence are Hunter Pence, J.A. Happ, Gaby Sanchez, Clay Buchholz, Bobby Parnell, Justin Maxwell, Zach McAllister, Dominic Brown (even though D Brown isn't a MLB guy yet), Danny Espinosa, and Ike Davis.
This is far from an academic statistical study, but it appears there's about a 20% chance of guys ranked between 11th and 20th in the NYPL becoming regular MLB contributors (of varying degrees). I understand quibbling about the method of this very, very basic study but I think it provides a decent historical perspective.
Just a bit of perspective on where Tyler Naquin's ranking of 16th in the league this year puts him. Feel free to adjust your expectations accordingly.
Of all 50 players ranked on those lists over that time period, the only MLB players of consequence are Hunter Pence, J.A. Happ, Gaby Sanchez, Clay Buchholz, Bobby Parnell, Justin Maxwell, Zach McAllister, Dominic Brown (even though D Brown isn't a MLB guy yet), Danny Espinosa, and Ike Davis.
This is far from an academic statistical study, but it appears there's about a 20% chance of guys ranked between 11th and 20th in the NYPL becoming regular MLB contributors (of varying degrees). I understand quibbling about the method of this very, very basic study but I think it provides a decent historical perspective.
Just a bit of perspective on where Tyler Naquin's ranking of 16th in the league this year puts him. Feel free to adjust your expectations accordingly.
- OhioBaseball
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
That's interesting info. I do believe Naquin is s major league caliber player and likely debuts some time 2014. I think his advanced approach will push him through the minors qkly and I believe he could be a everyday contributor but his upside is limited.
- homerawayfromhome
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
homerawayfromhome wrote:That's interesting info. I do believe Naquin is s major league caliber player and likely debuts some time 2014. I think his advanced approach will push him through the minors qkly and I believe he could be a everyday contributor but his upside is limited.
Someone suggested a comp to Trevor Crowe.. Doesn't seem to be all that far off.. Naquin may have a better arm & he might make better contact.. but that's about it.. BTW.. Crowe was a plus .300 hitter for the Angels AAA farm squad Salt Lake City in 2012.. so he had a decent year...
- GeronimoSon
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Crowe is 28 now?
I can see it some what, although I believe the vast difference is IMO Naquin is more advanced defensively, arm strength specifically as I posted earlier I believe Naquin could be a All Star caliber GG type defender. Also, I believe Naquin is superior to Crowe offensively as well. Although I see Naquin as a .285-300 type hitter it will be Brett Butler-esque slap hitter. I do believe he could generate 5- maybe 10 hrs per yr but that's really pushing it. Maybe Brantley would be the idea comp, but I don't see that much power from Naquin. Point being I think that's the type player he becomes.
I can see it some what, although I believe the vast difference is IMO Naquin is more advanced defensively, arm strength specifically as I posted earlier I believe Naquin could be a All Star caliber GG type defender. Also, I believe Naquin is superior to Crowe offensively as well. Although I see Naquin as a .285-300 type hitter it will be Brett Butler-esque slap hitter. I do believe he could generate 5- maybe 10 hrs per yr but that's really pushing it. Maybe Brantley would be the idea comp, but I don't see that much power from Naquin. Point being I think that's the type player he becomes.
- homerawayfromhome
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
- daingean
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
daingean wrote:I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Not gonna lie, definitely had to lookup Washington there as definitely don't remember him. Griffey seems like a reasonable comp too (I think Naquin could hit 21 HRs once if not more though don't think he'll be a perennial 20 HR guy).
I think you can go way more recent though and say David Dejesus. Played CF when he first came up and still does at times before movign to the corners. In over 4600 innings in CF has a -1.4 URZ/150. Below average but something you could live with if you needed too (Total Zone actually has him well above average in CF though for his career). Better in the corners though obviously. Has averaged a 2.7 fWAR since his rookie year, which is nothing great but still pretty darn solid. Obviously want more from a top 15 pick though. Did have a couple really solid seasons in KC before things started to go downhill after going to Oakland.
- Hermie13
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Hermie13 wrote:daingean wrote:I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Not gonna lie, definitely had to lookup Washington there as definitely don't remember him. Griffey seems like a reasonable comp too (I think Naquin could hit 21 HRs once if not more though don't think he'll be a perennial 20 HR guy).
I think you can go way more recent though and say David Dejesus. Played CF when he first came up and still does at times before movign to the corners. In over 4600 innings in CF has a -1.4 URZ/150. Below average but something you could live with if you needed too (Total Zone actually has him well above average in CF though for his career). Better in the corners though obviously. Has averaged a 2.7 fWAR since his rookie year, which is nothing great but still pretty darn solid. Obviously want more from a top 15 pick though. Did have a couple really solid seasons in KC before things started to go downhill after going to Oakland.
good ol' Hermie 1st you think Lars Anderson is a better spec then Steven Wright is... And now you think Naquin can hit 21 HR once if not more.... If this guy EVER hits more than 13 HR's in a season, it means everyone was wrong in regards to his power... Personally I would be surprised if he clubs 20 HR's total over the next 2, no make that 3 seasons.
- criznit2009
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Hermie13 wrote:daingean wrote:I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Not gonna lie, definitely had to lookup Washington there as definitely don't remember him. Griffey seems like a reasonable comp too (I think Naquin could hit 21 HRs once if not more though don't think he'll be a perennial 20 HR guy).
I think you can go way more recent though and say David Dejesus. Played CF when he first came up and still does at times before movign to the corners. In over 4600 innings in CF has a -1.4 URZ/150. Below average but something you could live with if you needed too (Total Zone actually has him well above average in CF though for his career). Better in the corners though obviously. Has averaged a 2.7 fWAR since his rookie year, which is nothing great but still pretty darn solid. Obviously want more from a top 15 pick though. Did have a couple really solid seasons in KC before things started to go downhill after going to Oakland.
I agree on the would want more from a #15 pick. Wouldn't mind getting any of Washington, Griffey Sr. or DeJesus on my team (exept for Washington's drug problem) but don't think that is what you want from a 1st rounder. In reality, it was a weak 1st round but we could have done better. For those championing the "he signed below slot so we could sign McClure and co." crowd, I'll say you should expect your 1st rounder to be an all-star, hope your 2nd rounder is a solid starter, and be happy when any of your 3rd-15th guys contribute. Occassionally, you will hit the lotto on a guy in later rounds (i.e. Jim Thome) but if you are seriously hanging your hat on a 4th rounder then you have your draft philosophy backwards and will be disappointed more often then not.
- daingean
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
I guess it's the simple expression of quantity over quality.
I can't really blame the Tribe for trying to be creative with the draft pool but hopefully that draft style modeled last draft will not be the same employed with the 5th pick. Particularly with the added pk after the 2nd rd, which should allow the club some more flexibility. It would be nice to see the Tribe acq. another one bc it would add a ton of flexibility and (ideally) potentially some serious talent on the lower levels of the system.
I can't really blame the Tribe for trying to be creative with the draft pool but hopefully that draft style modeled last draft will not be the same employed with the 5th pick. Particularly with the added pk after the 2nd rd, which should allow the club some more flexibility. It would be nice to see the Tribe acq. another one bc it would add a ton of flexibility and (ideally) potentially some serious talent on the lower levels of the system.
- homerawayfromhome
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
criznit2009 wrote:Hermie13 wrote:daingean wrote:I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Not gonna lie, definitely had to lookup Washington there as definitely don't remember him. Griffey seems like a reasonable comp too (I think Naquin could hit 21 HRs once if not more though don't think he'll be a perennial 20 HR guy).
I think you can go way more recent though and say David Dejesus. Played CF when he first came up and still does at times before movign to the corners. In over 4600 innings in CF has a -1.4 URZ/150. Below average but something you could live with if you needed too (Total Zone actually has him well above average in CF though for his career). Better in the corners though obviously. Has averaged a 2.7 fWAR since his rookie year, which is nothing great but still pretty darn solid. Obviously want more from a top 15 pick though. Did have a couple really solid seasons in KC before things started to go downhill after going to Oakland.
good ol' Hermie 1st you think Lars Anderson is a better spec then Steven Wright is... And now you think Naquin can hit 21 HR once if not more.... If this guy EVER hits more than 13 HR's in a season, it means everyone was wrong in regards to his power... Personally I would be surprised if he clubs 20 HR's total over the next 2, no make that 3 seasons.
Wright is a non-spec. Anderson is still a spec (albeit a bad one), ergo he's a better spec than Wright
And how many scouts thought Asdrubal would hit 25 HRs? Most scouts would have said no way. Hitting 21 HRs once doesn't mean much. One freak season and you could do that. Also, Power can be developed later in a career. Griffey Sr didn't hit more than 13 HRs til he was 36...
Considering he'll be in the minors the next 2 seasons, not sure why it matters really how many he hits there. Again, a guy like Asdrubal never hit more than 11 in a season (2007 hit 11 if you count the minors) til he broke out last year for 25. I'd say 20 HRs is a stretch but it's definately within the realm of possible once or twice in his career...that is assuming he hits well overall as a MLer, which is a big if still.
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
I think Naquin could easily put on another 5-10 lbs of muscle which would boost his power. I don't think there's anymore than 15 hrs in his bat (and thats pushing it) and frankly I'd assume he hits less than 10 hrs every yr. Naquin is a guy I can see having a 8-10 yr ML career but I just don't see him being anything more than a light hitting CF and potentially a RF or LF. He's definitely got the arm for RF but could also play any of the spots. I'm not concerned with his speed in CF or the lack of power. He is an advanced bat, won't hit for power but will get on base and will provide All Star caliber GG type defense bc of his solid range and laser arm.
I completely disagree with the comparison on Naquin with Crowe. I see Naquin more advanced with the bat, and far and away a much better arm. Neither was projected to hit for power and in fact Crowe was supposed to be more of a terror on the base paths than what Naquin is.
I completely disagree with the comparison on Naquin with Crowe. I see Naquin more advanced with the bat, and far and away a much better arm. Neither was projected to hit for power and in fact Crowe was supposed to be more of a terror on the base paths than what Naquin is.
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
Hermie13 wrote:criznit2009 wrote:Hermie13 wrote:daingean wrote:I'm hard pressed to find a good comparison for Naquin. The best I can think of would be Claudell Washington at best. Washington may have had just a little more power (showed his most power in Atlanta's Launching Pad) but was a solid player...not a star. That is if Naquin develops like we hope. Until he plays CF in the majors regularly, I expect to see him in RF.
Edit: I'd also add Ken Griffey Sr. (minus his 21HR year).
Not gonna lie, definitely had to lookup Washington there as definitely don't remember him. Griffey seems like a reasonable comp too (I think Naquin could hit 21 HRs once if not more though don't think he'll be a perennial 20 HR guy).
I think you can go way more recent though and say David Dejesus. Played CF when he first came up and still does at times before movign to the corners. In over 4600 innings in CF has a -1.4 URZ/150. Below average but something you could live with if you needed too (Total Zone actually has him well above average in CF though for his career). Better in the corners though obviously. Has averaged a 2.7 fWAR since his rookie year, which is nothing great but still pretty darn solid. Obviously want more from a top 15 pick though. Did have a couple really solid seasons in KC before things started to go downhill after going to Oakland.
good ol' Hermie 1st you think Lars Anderson is a better spec then Steven Wright is... And now you think Naquin can hit 21 HR once if not more.... If this guy EVER hits more than 13 HR's in a season, it means everyone was wrong in regards to his power... Personally I would be surprised if he clubs 20 HR's total over the next 2, no make that 3 seasons.
Wright is a non-spec. Anderson is still a spec (albeit a bad one), ergo he's a better spec than Wright![]()
And how many scouts thought Asdrubal would hit 25 HRs? Most scouts would have said no way. Hitting 21 HRs once doesn't mean much. One freak season and you could do that. Also, Power can be developed later in a career. Griffey Sr didn't hit more than 13 HRs til he was 36...
Considering he'll be in the minors the next 2 seasons, not sure why it matters really how many he hits there. Again, a guy like Asdrubal never hit more than 11 in a season (2007 hit 11 if you count the minors) til he broke out last year for 25. I'd say 20 HRs is a stretch but it's definately within the realm of possible once or twice in his career...that is assuming he hits well overall as a MLer, which is a big if still.
At least one non-scout said Droobs would be able to hit 15 to 25 homers..
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
I remember a few seasons ago I picked ACab to hit 15-18 hrs and got ripped for it. That was prior to 2010 and ACab had not peaked in terms of hitting.
That is not the case there simply isnt that potential in Naquins bat. I think its useless to argue that it is. Hes a very advanced and projectable bat. Hes not like RRod who I think could be a 20-25 hr guy or even Dorssys Paulino who looks like he could do the same. The power just isnt there for guys, I know Naquin could mature more and add some power but hes just likely to produce more doubles as he matures. I think Naquin can be a starter as a ML but likely doesnt hit more than 10 hrs per season.
That is not the case there simply isnt that potential in Naquins bat. I think its useless to argue that it is. Hes a very advanced and projectable bat. Hes not like RRod who I think could be a 20-25 hr guy or even Dorssys Paulino who looks like he could do the same. The power just isnt there for guys, I know Naquin could mature more and add some power but hes just likely to produce more doubles as he matures. I think Naquin can be a starter as a ML but likely doesnt hit more than 10 hrs per season.
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
homerawayfromhome wrote:I remember a few seasons ago I picked ACab to hit 15-18 hrs and got ripped for it. That was prior to 2010 and ACab had not peaked in terms of hitting.
That is not the case there simply isnt that potential in Naquins bat. I think its useless to argue that it is. Hes a very advanced and projectable bat. Hes not like RRod who I think could be a 20-25 hr guy or even Dorssys Paulino who looks like he could do the same. The power just isnt there for guys, I know Naquin could mature more and add some power but hes just likely to produce more doubles as he matures. I think Naquin can be a starter as a ML but likely doesnt hit more than 10 hrs per season.
What doesn't compute is the skill set and position(s) he plays.. He's got an uber-impressive arm which says left side/middle infielder.. He has decent quickness and quick feet, but not really a speed merchant..which says middle infielder, not CF.. His power is mostly by accident than from bat speed generated from proper hip turn and weight shift and he's a "dirtbag", doing anything to help his team win.. In short, he has the skill sets to be a SS or a 2B, unless, someone with a GREAT insight could see that a guy who can throw a ball through a wall, has excellent feet, and doesn't mind getting dirty should be considered as a backstop.. At least, that's mho...
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
^ Interesting post Gson. Pretty far out, probably not realistic, but maybe. Naquins value sure would change if he could learn to catch. Again, probably not gonna happen, but you get a gold star for creativity.
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
C would be a creative way to utilize his powerful arm. Looking at him I see SS / 3b bc of the arm, I'm not sure how he'd move around the bag but doesn't seem as if he would be stiff. 3b however, would again raise the question of him playing a corner position and the expectations placed on corner IF / OF to produce power numbers. Frankly, I'm not overly concerned with the Naquin pk...It seems to me to be a very safe pk, but with other high profile arms and bats out there when he was pk'd it just wasn't what many would have liked it to be. I say that with the consideration had he not been pk'd there the Tribe would likely have been forced into passing later on guys like Mitch Brown and DVone McClure.
I think one thing to take into consideration is the Tribe will likely get a qk return in the Naquin pk. While he's breaking into the majors, others the Tribe bypassed will be getting a taste of their first action at A / AA.
I think one thing to take into consideration is the Tribe will likely get a qk return in the Naquin pk. While he's breaking into the majors, others the Tribe bypassed will be getting a taste of their first action at A / AA.
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Re: Official 2012 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread
I'm not sure if this is a decent comparison but I'm thinking Tyler Naquin = Gerardo Parra (Dbax).
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