Steven Wright - why the hell did they trade him

[criznit2009]

I cannot remember/find the thread where this idiotic, potentially the worst trade made by the current F.O was discussed - so I will start a new one.

Though I hated the Naquin pick, I believe this move was the worst one made by indians managment this year.

How many would have Steven Wright in their top 20 list right now? How many would have Anderson? If you had both, who would you rank higher?

Given the relatively short time Wright has started throwing the knuckler, he has shown excellent progress/ability. I laugh at those of you who simply referred to him as a 27 (now 28) yr old in AA. He started 1 game in AA for the Sox before being justly promoted to AAA. He has continued to pitch well and just had a dandy of game for Pawtucket in their championship series. I ask again did/does anyone "like" this trade? A questionable LH hitting prospect, who will be 25 in a cpl weeks who i think will only have 1 option left going into 2013....For a 28yr knucklerballer who has put together a great season. Yes he will need to be rostered this off-season but with all his options remaining and nothing but time on his side, and considering our massive SP woes...Why in the hell would you trade him for Lars Anderson????????????

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=453214 - his stats for the year/career

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... a_pawaaa_1 - his box score from last night

[dazindiansfanuk]

I said at the time, and I'll say it again, Lars Anderson is a nobody..... granted!

That said, the hysteria over Steven Wright is laughable. He has the potential of a great story if he makes it to pitch even one inning in the majors, but he's not a great prospect.

Would I have done the deal? No.

Will we even remember this deal in 2 years time? Probably not.

[danh8]

I laughed when I saw that this trade was made by Antonetti. Anybody knows you throw age out the window with knuckleball pitchers, so don't even go there with anything in regards to Wright's age. I've talked with a few scouts who sharew my opinion on the trade ...they think it was absurd to give him up in a trade for somebody who had lost almost all of his prior value, in Lars Anderson. I mean, nobody knows for sure what the future holds, but ..in terms of value and upside Wright had far more than we recieved back in trade. The Yankee scout I talked to just basically said that every team in baseball kicks themselves for not getting in on talks involving Wright, because a Lars Anderson exists on every AAA team out there. And then he said something even more hurtful ...he said, you should know, you have three Lares Anderson's in Columbus and two in Cleveland.

I cannot remember/find the thread where this idiotic, potentially the worst trade made by the current F.O was discussed - so I will start a new one.

Though I hated the Naquin pick, I believe this move was the worst one made by indians managment this year.

How many would have Steven Wright in their top 20 list right now? How many would have Anderson? If you had both, who would you rank higher?

Given the relatively short time Wright has started throwing the knuckler, he has shown excellent progress/ability. I laugh at those of you who simply referred to him as a 27 (now 28) yr old in AA. He started 1 game in AA for the Sox before being justly promoted to AAA. He has continued to pitch well and just had a dandy of game for Pawtucket in their championship series. I ask again did/does anyone "like" this trade? A questionable LH hitting prospect, who will be 25 in a cpl weeks who i think will only have 1 option left going into 2013....For a 28yr knucklerballer who has put together a great season. Yes he will need to be rostered this off-season but with all his options remaining and nothing but time on his side, and considering our massive SP woes...Why in the hell would you trade him for Lars Anderson????????????

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=453214 - his stats for the year/career

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... a_pawaaa_1 - his box score from last night

[artgold]

Hated the deal when it was made, and posted so at the time.

Hate the deal now, and I agree you can forget Wright's age, he has a far greater upside than Lars.

This team really has been tough to understand the past 4 or 5 years, really needs to reevaluate their decision making.

Even if Wright fails, it was a bad deal for a worthless asset.

[Edible14]

The Yankee scout I talked to just basically said that every team in baseball kicks themselves for not getting in on talks involving Wright, because a Lars Anderson exists on every AAA team out there. And then he said something even more hurtful ...he said, you should know, you have three Lares Anderson's in Columbus and two in Cleveland.

It's true. AND, they were right-handed, where Lars isn't. Let's also not forget that Boston is more than a little familiar with how to handle a knuckleballer. I disliked the trade for purely sentimental reasons (I love the knuckler), so I try not to say too much on it because I know I'm biased. But yeah... not happy where that trade looks like it's going.

[martyinnewyork]

Wright must be rostered this year, if I'm not mistaken. If Boston doesn't roster him, the Tribe can get him back in the Rule 5 draft. Then they can trade him again for Johnny Damon...

[indians1]

Steven wright may end up being good, but he isn't an elite player. It is ridiculous how people on this board want to squabble about average to above average prospects.

The whole indians organization has such an inflated view of themselves and their ability to draft and develop people even though they suck at it.

I like tony alot and thinks he does amazing work, but when we start seeing pieces on prospects like alex lavisky legitimizing himself as a catching prospect, you have to wonder how bad is this organization.( I am not an insider so i don't have access to the front page article.) so excuse me if there is some hidden information in there.

The guy hit .246 and struck out almost 3x as many times as he walked. He is 21 years old in his second season of low A ball We need to stop propping up these prospects and start giving the ones that deserve it their due. Unfortunately, there is not many if at all. even lindor had a so-so season. The main thing you can look at is his BB-K ratio. That at least says he has some strike zone discipline. Whether he shows that as he progresses remains to be seen.

Look how asdrubal as become a strikeout machine even though he was good in the minors.

[A.Zajac]

Steven wright may end up being good, but he isn't an elite player. It is ridiculous how people on this board want to squabble about average to above average prospects.

The whole indians organization has such an inflated view of themselves and their ability to draft and develop people even though they suck at it.

I like tony alot and thinks he does amazing work, but when we start seeing pieces on prospects like alex lavisky legitimizing himself as a catching prospect, you have to wonder how bad is this organization.( I am not an insider so i don't have access to the front page article.) so excuse me if there is some hidden information in there.

The guy hit .246 and struck out almost 3x as many times as he walked. He is 21 years old in his second season of low A ball We need to stop propping up these prospects and start giving the ones that deserve it their due. Unfortunately, there is not many if at all. even lindor had a so-so season. The main thing you can look at is his BB-K ratio. That at least says he has some strike zone discipline. Whether he shows that as he progresses remains to be seen.

Look how asdrubal as become a strikeout machine even though he was good in the minors.

You lost all credibility after you said what I bolded.

[TonyIBI]

I agree that Wright is being over-valued by a lot of people....he still has a long way to go before having any ML success.

He's not a Top 20, 30, 40 or whatever prospect. But I still think he had more value to the Indians than Lars Anderson does. A trade I myself don't understand....and from the feelers I get it seems they always liked Anderson and were happy to get him. I just get the sense they were unable to properly evaluate the knuckleball and what kind of progress was being made or what kind of future success could come, so they traded him while the iron was hot and got a guy they always liked going back to the draft.

[criznit2009]

I agree that Wright is being over-valued by a lot of people....he still has a long way to go before having any ML success.

He's not a Top 20, 30, 40 or whatever prospect. But I still think he had more value to the Indians than Lars Anderson does. A trade I myself don't understand....and from the feelers I get it seems they always liked Anderson and were happy to get him. I just get the sense they were unable to properly evaluate the knuckleball and what kind of progress was being made or what kind of future success could come, so they traded him while the iron was hot and got a guy they always liked going back to the draft.

Hmm - have to say I completely disagree with ya on this one in regards to what his prospect standing would be. If he were still an indian I doubt you have him ranked 41st for 2013. Had he stayed in the system he clearly would be a top 25 no doubt. At least on my list and probably quite a few others.

As far as the tribe not being able "to properly evaluate the knuckleball and what kind of progress was being made" I will say this.. Just look at his stats - his H/9 is flat out wonderful!!! His K/9 is GREAT for a knucklerballer. Sure he gives up some walks - but guess what? This is his 2nd full year throwing it and quite simply - look how much better he is this year than last. period. It would be amazingly DUMB for the F.O to believe that this is as good as it gets for him.If he continues his current trajectory he will become one of the hottest prospects in all of baseball despite his age. And age in regards to knuckleballers is well....

But I guess they could be w"right". He still has a lot to prove before getting a shot at the major leagues. But feel he has a much better shot of playing and playing along time at a high level then Lars does. And th. at is why I ask why in hell did they trade him... If the return was better then I could see it.. But Anderson I mean really??

W

[martyinnewyork]

If the front office had the hots for Lars Anderson in 2010, that would be ok... but in 2012, you should not trade an asset for him. And Wright is an asset.
I would say Wright is about as close to being ready to help a big league club as anybody else the Tribe has. I think he could be in the majors next year.
People just don't know how to handle knuckleball pitchers...

[adaree]

Knuckleball or not, Wright had the numbers of a #5 starter at best when he was pitching for Akron. 7.77 K/9, 4.77 BB/9....I can name about 5 other guys in our organization who can put up similar or better numbers right now. I understand that the knuckleball projects differently than a standard pitch, but just because a few pitchers in recent history have developed incredibly well "later" in life does not mean that Wright (or any other knuckleballer) will develop on that same trajectory. The 4.08 FIP that he posted in Akron very well could be his true talent level for all we know.

Maybe he will improve, maybe he wont. Maybe the 25-year old Anderson will benefit from a change in scenery, maybe he wont. At the end of the day, I don't see this trade being a big win or a big loss for either club.

[martyinnewyork]

We currently are giving major league starts to David Huff. I'm sure Huff is a nice guy, but what has he done to deserve a rotation spot, other than having 5 good innings this past week? I know Huff is out of options, but Wright could easily have gotten the same consideration as Huff, as he needs to be rostered after this year and a decision needs to be made. Tell me who we should be giving September starts to - Huff or Wright?

[Hermie13]

Wright must be rostered this year, if I'm not mistaken. If Boston doesn't roster him, the Tribe can get him back in the Rule 5 draft. Then they can trade him again for Johnny Damon...

I thought he was a minor league free agent, not a Rule V guy...

[martyinnewyork]

Rule 5...

[GeronimoSon]

Rule 5...

27 to 28 year old AA pitchers.. aren't exactly in high demand.. even one who has a trick pitch....

[criznit2009]

Rule 5...

27 to 28 year old AA pitchers.. aren't exactly in high demand.. even one who has a trick pitch....

Pitched 1 AA game for the Sox before being promoted to AAA where he continued to pitch rather well. Considering the Sox traded for him I doubt they only planned on him pitching half a yr in the minors. He will be rostered.

[martyinnewyork]

Add GSon to the growing list of people who don't understand the development curve of a knuckleball pitcher ...

[GeronimoSon]

Add GSon to the growing list of people who don't understand the development curve of a knuckleball pitcher ...

Subtract Marty from the list of people who understand virtually all players make their bones before they're 25.. or not at all.. This imaginary & hypothetical 'learning curve' for the knuckle ball is hogwash.. and you know it.. everyone knows it..

[homerawayfromhome]

If he's a minor league FA what's the big deal the BoSox will either roster him or the Tribe could pursue him. Either way he's gone right now.

[Edible14]

Add GSon to the growing list of people who don't understand the development curve of a knuckleball pitcher ...

Subtract Marty from the list of people who understand virtually all players make their bones before they're 25.. or not at all.. This imaginary & hypothetical 'learning curve' for the knuckle ball is hogwash.. and you know it.. everyone knows it..

Exhibit A: Tim Wakefield. Major league debut in 1992, at the age of 26, was sent down afterwards to AAA. He didn't secure a spot on the big league team until 1995, at the age of 29.

Exhibit B: Tom Candiotti. Candiotti had played some in the big leagues, and had little success until he signed with the Indians in 1985, at 28 years old.

Exhibit C: Steve Sparks, debuted at the age of 30

Exhibit D: R.A Dickey. Transitioned to being a knuckleball pitcher at the age of 32, did not achieve regular success until 3 years later, with the Mets, at age 36.

So no, it's not imaginary or hypothetical. I'm not saying Wright will be the next RA Dickey or Tim Wakefield, but considering he's into only his second year with the pitch, it's not a stretch to say that he still has a shot at becoming such a player. It might not be likely, but neither is Lars Anderson becoming a legitimate starting 1B. So there's that.

[GeronimoSon]

Exhibit E through the alphabet forty times... Guys who have a FB that is a foot or more short converting to the knuckle ball.. Bringing up the odd and VERY few pitchers who have achieved success with the knuckle ball proves the point.. it's not some mystical pitch that requires fourteen years of development in the minors to achieve success...smh...

[martyinnewyork]

This is getting ridiculous. The fact that other pitchers have thrown the knuckleball without much success does not mean that Wright will not have success. The fact that Phil Niekro is in the Hall of Fame does not mean that Stephen Wright will be likewise enshrined. But the fact remains that most pitchers who rely on the knuckleball take longer to master the pitch than, say, a fastball pitcher. Wright had a very good year, especially considering that he only started throwing the knuckler full-time a couple of years ago, if that. Lars Anderson has been in decline as a prospect. Wright is worth much more than Anderson. This trade may not end up as a major disaster, but why trade an asset for Anderson?

[daingean]

This is getting ridiculous. The fact that other pitchers have thrown the knuckleball without much success does not mean that Wright will not have success. The fact that Phil Niekro is in the Hall of Fame does not mean that Stephen Wright will be likewise enshrined. But the fact remains that most pitchers who rely on the knuckleball take longer to master the pitch than, say, a fastball pitcher. Wright had a very good year, especially considering that he only started throwing the knuckler full-time a couple of years ago, if that. Lars Anderson has been in decline as a prospect. Wright is worth much more than Anderson. This trade may not end up as a major disaster, but why trade an asset for Anderson?

I wouldn't say they take longer to master the knuckle ball than a fastball pitcher....it's just that they started using it as a primary pitcher much later in life......guys who are fastball pitchers have been throwing the FB since they were 9 or 10.

[Hermie13]

This is getting ridiculous. The fact that other pitchers have thrown the knuckleball without much success does not mean that Wright will not have success. The fact that Phil Niekro is in the Hall of Fame does not mean that Stephen Wright will be likewise enshrined. But the fact remains that most pitchers who rely on the knuckleball take longer to master the pitch than, say, a fastball pitcher. Wright had a very good year, especially considering that he only started throwing the knuckler full-time a couple of years ago, if that. Lars Anderson has been in decline as a prospect. Wright is worth much more than Anderson. This trade may not end up as a major disaster, but why trade an asset for Anderson?

At the end of the day I think it comes down to Wright being a minor league free agent after the season with the ability to go sign with any team he chooses. I'm guessing the Indians knew they weren't going to roster him so they got something for him. Think you're vastly overrating Wright if you think he was worth much more than Anderson though guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Not a big fan of Anderson though do think he has more value than Wright had. You can argue too that the Indians would have been dumb to not roster Wright, and suppose you'd have a case there.

[GeronimoSon]

This is getting ridiculous. The fact that other pitchers have thrown the knuckleball without much success does not mean that Wright will not have success. The fact that Phil Niekro is in the Hall of Fame does not mean that Stephen Wright will be likewise enshrined. But the fact remains that most pitchers who rely on the knuckleball take longer to master the pitch than, say, a fastball pitcher. Wright had a very good year, especially considering that he only started throwing the knuckler full-time a couple of years ago, if that. Lars Anderson has been in decline as a prospect. Wright is worth much more than Anderson. This trade may not end up as a major disaster, but why trade an asset for Anderson?

At the end of the day I think it comes down to Wright being a minor league free agent after the season with the ability to go sign with any team he chooses. I'm guessing the Indians knew they weren't going to roster him so they got something for him. Think you're vastly overrating Wright if you think he was worth much more than Anderson though guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Not a big fan of Anderson though do think he has more value than Wright had. You can argue too that the Indians would have been dumb to not roster Wright, and suppose you'd have a case there.

Hermie.. yep.. neither one of these guys have much value, if any, as prospects.. If anything, Lars might have just a wee bit more.. but not much.. If it comes down to a Lars v Stephen Wright evaluation of talent, Lars has ten times as much.. but then again, ten times nothing is still nothing.. Neither one of these guys are on a prospect map.. neither one of these guys will be breaking out anytime soon or at all.. and neither one of these guys will be worth the keystrokes already used to describe their talent or lack thereof...

[danh8]

Well, Wright has made it to the Majors. He had a great spring, and started great in AAA this year, so now we get to see how he goes as they are breaking him in, in a relief role... But, Farrell has said that he will eventually be rolled into the rotation. He seems to feel that he will have a very long and successful and long career as the Red Sox new Knuckleball sensation.

This one will hurt, bad.. Don't know what Antonetti didn't see in this kid once he began showing signs of becoming dominant with that knuckler. For a franchise that hasn't had any success developing even one solid starter in over a decade, trading him for not even a decent prospect really pissed me off at the time of the trade, and continues to as he fulfills the expectations I had for him.

[GeronimoSon]

PUH-lease with this maudlin pining for knuckle ball throwing old timer...

Steven Wright.. 4 games, 7 1/3 innings pitched, 10 hits, 7 walks and 7 earned runs allowed.. If this was Ubaldo, you'd be clamoring to find a sturdy tree & dirty rope to lynch him... These are NOT the numbers of a future stalwart in a pitching rotation...

smh..

[martyinnewyork]

Lars Anderson has been released by the D-Backs, released by the White Sox, given away by the Jays, and is back in AAA with the White Sox since we traded him. Meanwhile, Wright has been rostered and kept by Boston, and is now on the parent team. G-Son still thinks this was an even trade.
Lars Anderson was not worth Stephen Wright. That doesn't mean Wright will be an all-star. It simply means he was worth a lot more than Anderson.
G-Son- you are being really stubborn on this. You make lots of good observations, but you are wrong here.

[GeronimoSon]

Martin.. fwiw, my observation had little to do with the comparison of Lars "The Hitting Machine" Anderson and Steven
Wright. As a 28 or 29 year old.. just making his first roster & getting into a handful of games, Wright has proven he's
every bit the player Lars is or was.. Maybe he'll be more.. but, being the 12th guy in a bullpen somehow just doesn't cut it for
me from the standpoint of evaluating a trade.

[A.Zajac]

I'm with G'Son here.... a lot of you are acting like Wright is the next coming of Tim Wakefield. He's looked very average/mediocre out of the gate. We're pissing and moaning over STEVEN WRIGHT! STEVEN WRIGHT! Who the hell cares if we got rid of Lars Anderson. Life goes on. Wright isn't an all-star/elite player. He isn't even a GOOD player. He's average! This is baseball. Things like this happen. Look at Rafael Bentancourt out in Colorado. He's been A LOT better than Steven Wright, yet you're choosing to complain about STEVEN WRIGHT. Good grief, people....

[MadThinker88]

AZajac,

I believe I know where your headed with the old Raffy Right comparison but the reason no one is complaining about Raffy is 2 fold:
1) other right handed relievers have stepped up so Raffy's absence isnt really noticed
2) ballgames are roughly 30 to 45 minutes faster when Raffy right doesn't get into the game.

On those items I think people are quite happy to move along from Raffy.

Now I am not nashing my teeth over the deal of Wright but from a fan perspective I don't think anyone really saw the upside of the deal. The organization is short on starting options and one of those gets dealt away for a left handed first baseman. Even catching lightning in the bottle (Lars produces and is the next Hafner) it would mean one of the off season free agents would not be here and the lineup still lefty-heavy.

[martyinnewyork]

Wright got wracked tonight...

[A.Zajac]

This thread got quiet reeeeal quick. Wonder why.