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YANKEES

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YANKEES

Postby Bearcatbob » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:28 pm

Pitiful!
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Re: YANKEES

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:05 pm

Pretty piss poor showing by the Indians tonight.

Will say that Scotty Barnes looked very good in relief of Tomlin who did his best to make Jeanmar Gomez look good. Seemed to hit a wall in the 6th inning, but I like Barnes as a lefty in the pen. I still like him as a starter but I think his ultimate niche in the bigs is out of the pen.
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Re: YANKEES

Postby Prosecutor » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:15 am

When you look at all the high-priced stars the Yankees either signed or traded for, it's ridiculous to think the Indians can compete with them.

Swisher, ARod, Texiera, Ibanez, Sabathia, Kuroda...the Indians could afford to pay none of these guys. Instead we're signing the Johnny Damons and Casey Kotchmans of the world. Ludicrous.

Barnes looked good, at least. He had that one outing where he gave up five runs in 1/3 inning against the Reds, but otherwise he's given up one run in 6.1 innings. He looked very good last night - lots of swings and misses.

Esmil Rogers has given up 2 ERs in 7.1 innings with 10 K's. Rogers and Barnes look like they have the potential to be effective middle relievers, or at least be upgrades over guys like Ascencio, Wheeler, Chad Durbin, and Frank Hermann.

The only way the Indians can hope to compete with teams like the Yankees is to develop a dominating pitching staff from top to bottom. The injuries to Adam Miller and Jason Knapp, who both had front end starter potential, was devastating. As a result they're having to build their rotation out of second tier arms like Tomlin and Gomez, and sign guys like Lowe who are at the very end of their shelf life. And make risky trades like the Jimenez for Pomeranz and White deal.
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Re: YANKEES

Postby daingean » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:36 am

Prosecutor wrote:When you look at all the high-priced stars the Yankees either signed or traded for, it's ridiculous to think the Indians can compete with them.

Swisher, ARod, Texiera, Ibanez, Sabathia, Kuroda...the Indians could afford to pay none of these guys. Instead we're signing the Johnny Damons and Casey Kotchmans of the world. Ludicrous.

Barnes looked good, at least. He had that one outing where he gave up five runs in 1/3 inning against the Reds, but otherwise he's given up one run in 6.1 innings. He looked very good last night - lots of swings and misses.

Esmil Rogers has given up 2 ERs in 7.1 innings with 10 K's. Rogers and Barnes look like they have the potential to be effective middle relievers, or at least be upgrades over guys like Ascencio, Wheeler, Chad Durbin, and Frank Hermann.

The only way the Indians can hope to compete with teams like the Yankees is to develop a dominating pitching staff from top to bottom. The injuries to Adam Miller and Jason Knapp, who both had front end starter potential, was devastating. As a result they're having to build their rotation out of second tier arms like Tomlin and Gomez, and sign guys like Lowe who are at the very end of their shelf life. And make risky trades like the Jimenez for Pomeranz and White deal.


I would agree totally with this if the Tribe played in the AL East but they don't. This team can win the Central (although I put that chance at 20% with the team structure as it is right now) and then can beat the Yankees in a 5/7 game series. The high priced stars certainly give the Yankees an advantage in every phase. IMO, in a short series it's the tougher team (i.e. Cardinals over Rangers/Brewers last year) has some advantages. If the Tribe comes out of the Central this year, they will be a tough team because they would have had to battle and battle to win it. Teams that cruise don't always develop that toughness. In 162 games....yes the team with the stars will win out.....in a 5/7 game series, it may be a draw between the star-studded line-up vs. the tough fight-for-everything lineup.
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Re: YANKEES

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:06 am

Prosecutor wrote:When you look at all the high-priced stars the Yankees either signed or traded for, it's ridiculous to think the Indians can compete with them.

Swisher, ARod, Texiera, Ibanez, Sabathia, Kuroda...the Indians could afford to pay none of these guys. Instead we're signing the Johnny Damons and Casey Kotchmans of the world. Ludicrous.

Barnes looked good, at least. He had that one outing where he gave up five runs in 1/3 inning against the Reds, but otherwise he's given up one run in 6.1 innings. He looked very good last night - lots of swings and misses.

Esmil Rogers has given up 2 ERs in 7.1 innings with 10 K's. Rogers and Barnes look like they have the potential to be effective middle relievers, or at least be upgrades over guys like Ascencio, Wheeler, Chad Durbin, and Frank Hermann.

The only way the Indians can hope to compete with teams like the Yankees is to develop a dominating pitching staff from top to bottom. The injuries to Adam Miller and Jason Knapp, who both had front end starter potential, was devastating. As a result they're having to build their rotation out of second tier arms like Tomlin and Gomez, and sign guys like Lowe who are at the very end of their shelf life. And make risky trades like the Jimenez for Pomeranz and White deal.


Baseball is a funny game..sometimes, not often, the way to compete isn't with stats and dollars..it's with heart and hard work.. The Indians don't have a bunch of stars.. and may never have them.. It does not mean they cannot compete with teams that have the ARods and Teixeiras and Swishers and Grandersons of the baseball world..

Both Esmil Rogers and Scotty Barnes have looked like they can contribute to the pen.. Both have terrific arms.. both can throw the heat in the mid 90's.. both have a wipe out breaking ball.. Neither has the third pitch. Rogers was a starter for almost all of his time with the Rockies system. It was only 2011 and now 2012 that he has become a bullpen guy. He seems well suited to the pen & will probably remain there. Scotty Barnes, on the other hand..has all the tools needed to become a middle of the rotation SP.. We shall see. During the next three months, it would not be a huge surprise to see Barnes get long relief chances (3 innings or more) and perhaps a spot start here and there..

The Indians do not have a 'top to bottom' SP rotation. They have two solid pieces and three possible pieces. None of the pitchers the Indians have could be / should be considered FOR / League Ace level pitchers. The Indians also have Carlos Carrasco set to begin his next step toward returning the to mound. He also projects to a below staff ace level ability, but, give the Indians four of those guys..and they should be able to compete with ANYONE in a short series in October. The bullpen is good enough to play at that level.. What the Indians lack is the ability to power their way to wins and the playoffs.. This the real issue can be mitigated by some of the players getting real hot..or the acquisition of an impact hitter.. The trading deadline is only five weeks away.. If the Indians don't 'limp' into the All Star Break with their tails between their legs.. the FO will be inclined to make something happen..

In the interim..some of the dead wood on this roster: Aaron Cunningham/Shelly Duncan/anyone in the bullpen not named Barnes, CPerez, Pestano, Rogers, or Smith could be in danger of losing their spot. The Indians have Raffy Perez and Grady Sizemore & Travis Hafner getting close to being ready for action or should be closing in on contributing by the Trading Deadline. The Indians have a few options in the minors that may be able to help or at least prove they do or do not belong on the squad: Zach McAllister, Russ Canzler, Matt Laporta. It should be an interesting 35 days..

Justin Masterson faces off against Phil Hughes in the middle game of the series. Advantage Indians. The Indians really need to take today and/or tomorrow's game. A sweep wouldn't be the end of the world.. it will just seem like it...
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