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2012 Draft Prospects

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby ohioteamz » Wed May 30, 2012 10:38 pm

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
PEngle39 wrote:Keith Law reports that the Indians are open to taking a college or prep player in round 1. Like always, the Indians will take the best player available; so rest easy Tribe fans!!


A further clarification on Keith Law's report: The Indians will take a position player or a pitcher. Keith Law must be reading Paul Hoynes' insightful meanderings to get this specific...


so that means that we can scratch from our list all punters

Board Member: This guy here is dead!
Rachel Phelps: Cross him off, then!


I had this unexplainable anxious feeling all day like something just wasn't right. Now that I know we are going either position player or pitcher from either the prep or college ranks, I can sleep a little easier.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:09 pm

ohioteamz wrote:
daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
PEngle39 wrote:Keith Law reports that the Indians are open to taking a college or prep player in round 1. Like always, the Indians will take the best player available; so rest easy Tribe fans!!


A further clarification on Keith Law's report: The Indians will take a position player or a pitcher. Keith Law must be reading Paul Hoynes' insightful meanderings to get this specific...


so that means that we can scratch from our list all punters

Board Member: This guy here is dead!
Rachel Phelps: Cross him off, then!


I had this unexplainable anxious feeling all day like something just wasn't right. Now that I know we are going either position player or pitcher from either the prep or college ranks, I can sleep a little easier.



ha, be careful...the Tribe could throw us a curve and go with a position player AND a pitcher with that first pick (not or)....Joey Gallo anyone? :cool
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 31, 2012 7:17 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
ohioteamz wrote:
daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
PEngle39 wrote:Keith Law reports that the Indians are open to taking a college or prep player in round 1. Like always, the Indians will take the best player available; so rest easy Tribe fans!!


A further clarification on Keith Law's report: The Indians will take a position player or a pitcher. Keith Law must be reading Paul Hoynes' insightful meanderings to get this specific...


so that means that we can scratch from our list all punters

Board Member: This guy here is dead!
Rachel Phelps: Cross him off, then!


I had this unexplainable anxious feeling all day like something just wasn't right. Now that I know we are going either position player or pitcher from either the prep or college ranks, I can sleep a little easier.



ha, be careful...the Tribe could throw us a curve and go with a position player AND a pitcher with that first pick (not or)....Joey Gallo anyone? :cool


So.. if this is THEEE GUY.. your GUY.. would we want the Rick Ankiel pitching version first..or the Rick Ankiel Outfielder version first?...lol..
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Thu May 31, 2012 8:31 pm

The tribe could always go Minnesota Vikings and pass on the pick...
I say they go best player...
But will a RH bat push it's way to the top of the rankings? I think it's very possible the Tribe bring home Shafer or Piscotty but as Keith Law would say / do. They might go after Michael Wacha, Andrew Heaney, Chris Straton, or maybe a hs position player or hs pitcher just to cover all the bases. :confused
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby daingean » Thu May 31, 2012 9:44 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:The tribe could always go Minnesota Vikings and pass on the pick...
I say they go best player...
But will a RH bat push it's way to the top of the rankings? I think it's very possible the Tribe bring home Shafer or Piscotty but as Keith Law would say / do. They might go after Michael Wacha, Andrew Heaney, Chris Straton, or maybe a hs position player or hs pitcher just to cover all the bases. :confused


I don't the the need for the RH bat at the ML level will have any affect on who they pick. By the time he would get to the show, the team's needs would have already changed. The Tribe values pitchers and took a bat last year but the pick should come down to who projects to be the BPA not the current BPA.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Thu May 31, 2012 11:54 pm

We have a need for basically everything in the system, so even if you wouldn't go BPA, it still doesn't matter.

Some more names to throw into the mix after the 1st round:

Hitters:

Travis Jankowski, OF, Stony Brook (R/R) -- Likely won't be there when we pick again, but one to jump on is he falls. Very good speed, plays a nice CF, hits for average, little power.

Mitch Nay, 3B, Hamilton HS (R/R) -- RH power bat with good hitting skills. Hard worker and a solid defender. He's committed to Arizona State, so might be a tougher sign.

Corey Seager, SS, Northwest Cabarrus HS (L/R) -- Great hitter, tons of power, solid speed. Will likely move to 3rd base and has the tools to be above-average there. He's been rising on draft boards so might be picked late in the 1st or in the supplemental round.

Nick Williams, OF, Galveston Ball HS (L/L) -- Big name before draft, but stock has dropped ever since. He has the tools and athleticism to be something special, but needs alot of work on his swing. Texas commit, so will be very tough sign.

Adam Brett Walker, 1B/OF, Jacksonville University (R/R) -- Enormous power potential, very athletic (only average arm though), but far from refined. Needs to develop more plate discipline and overall hitting ability, but big time potential.

Addison Russell, SS/3B, Pace HS (R/R) -- Another big name before draft, but has been sliding down draft boards, especially after reports came about being out of shape in summer showcases last year. That seems to be behind him now and he has a special bat. Likely an above-average 3rd baseman as a pro.

James Ramsey, OF, Florida Stat (L/R) -- solid tools across the board, but nothing that stands out. Great numbers in college this year and is a true gamer (just how the Indians like them). He seems like a bit of a tweener and might become nothing more than a 4th outfielder, but he's a senior and should be cheap.

Pitchers:

Hunter Virant, LHP, Camarillo HS -- Secondary stuff ahead of fastball, but projectable frame to add some velocity. Knows how to pitch despite inexperience. UCLA commit.

Mitch Brown, RHP, Century HS -- good fastball (low to mid 90's), good cutter and solid change. Lacks a true breaking ball so will need to develop one.

Dylan Baker, RHP, Western Nevada CC -- JuCo pitcher with a lot of upside, but lacks command. mid 90's fastball and above-average secondary stuff. High ceiling, especially for a college pitcher, but also more of a risk.

Pat Light, RHP, Monmouth University -- Heavy fastball, outstanding command, great frame (6'6 200), but needs to work on offspeed offerings. Very nice potential though.

Kevin Brady, RHP, Clemson -- Injuries have slowed him down and affected his command, but the stuff is there and when he's healthy, the command is as well. low to mid 90's FB, above average slider and solid change. Could be a steal.

Even if this draft isn't anything special, the names certainly are (i.e. Buck Farmer, Damien Magnifico, Skye Bolt, Patrick Wisdom, Hunter Virant).
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby ohioteamz » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:48 pm

As the Hitting Mechanics Dweeb, Ankiel's swing is not something I want to take a chance on. PASS.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:06 pm

NCAA Regionals start today. I've always been a fan of North Carolina-Chapel Hill b/c they normally always have good pitching prospects on their team. They've got a freshman named Benton Moss that is a ton of fun to watch. He's a very athletic, 6'1" RHP with very good arm speed and projection, as well as two plus pitches, in my opinion. He got passed over last year in the draft b/c he's kind of short and his mechanics are a bit loud, but this guy can pitch. A fun pitching prospect to watch if you get the opportunity.

UNC also has a LHP Kent Emanuel that was discussed last year on this board. He'll be in next year's draft class. He's really a hard guy to figure out -- a very effective pitcher with MLB pitching proportions (height, long arms and legs) but the stuff is below MLB average. I don't think the guy ever has any value as a MLB starter, but you'll probably find a few people that like him. I think 1st round talk is a total joke, but we'll see.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:05 pm

JP_Frost wrote:We have a need for basically everything in the system, so even if you wouldn't go BPA, it still doesn't matter.

Some more names to throw into the mix after the 1st round:

Hitters:

Travis Jankowski, OF, Stony Brook (R/R) -- Likely won't be there when we pick again, but one to jump on is he falls. Very good speed, plays a nice CF, hits for average, little power.

Mitch Nay, 3B, Hamilton HS (R/R) -- RH power bat with good hitting skills. Hard worker and a solid defender. He's committed to Arizona State, so might be a tougher sign.

Corey Seager, SS, Northwest Cabarrus HS (L/R) -- Great hitter, tons of power, solid speed. Will likely move to 3rd base and has the tools to be above-average there. He's been rising on draft boards so might be picked late in the 1st or in the supplemental round.

Nick Williams, OF, Galveston Ball HS (L/L) -- Big name before draft, but stock has dropped ever since. He has the tools and athleticism to be something special, but needs alot of work on his swing. Texas commit, so will be very tough sign.

Adam Brett Walker, 1B/OF, Jacksonville University (R/R) -- Enormous power potential, very athletic (only average arm though), but far from refined. Needs to develop more plate discipline and overall hitting ability, but big time potential.

Addison Russell, SS/3B, Pace HS (R/R) -- Another big name before draft, but has been sliding down draft boards, especially after reports came about being out of shape in summer showcases last year. That seems to be behind him now and he has a special bat. Likely an above-average 3rd baseman as a pro.

James Ramsey, OF, Florida Stat (L/R) -- solid tools across the board, but nothing that stands out. Great numbers in college this year and is a true gamer (just how the Indians like them). He seems like a bit of a tweener and might become nothing more than a 4th outfielder, but he's a senior and should be cheap.

Pitchers:

Hunter Virant, LHP, Camarillo HS -- Secondary stuff ahead of fastball, but projectable frame to add some velocity. Knows how to pitch despite inexperience. UCLA commit.

Mitch Brown, RHP, Century HS -- good fastball (low to mid 90's), good cutter and solid change. Lacks a true breaking ball so will need to develop one.

Dylan Baker, RHP, Western Nevada CC -- JuCo pitcher with a lot of upside, but lacks command. mid 90's fastball and above-average secondary stuff. High ceiling, especially for a college pitcher, but also more of a risk.

Pat Light, RHP, Monmouth University -- Heavy fastball, outstanding command, great frame (6'6 200), but needs to work on offspeed offerings. Very nice potential though.

Kevin Brady, RHP, Clemson -- Injuries have slowed him down and affected his command, but the stuff is there and when he's healthy, the command is as well. low to mid 90's FB, above average slider and solid change. Could be a steal.

Even if this draft isn't anything special, the names certainly are (i.e. Buck Farmer, Damien Magnifico, Skye Bolt, Patrick Wisdom, Hunter Virant).

I like Addison Russell(duh), Mitch Nay & Corey Seager based on video although Seager isn't projecting much power for a 3B.

New guy for me is David Thompson, HS guy from Miami. Recruited to Miami for baseball & football(QB). Man, what a nice swing. Hit everything HARD. Projected 3B or LF as a pro with enough power for either position.

Saw Cecchini & was really surprised at the power he showed. He'll stick at SS but he won't be a light hitting SS. Something along Asdrubal lines.

Carson Kelly has plus power at 3B & a nice short swing. Looks good at 3B also.

Jesmuel Valentin looks really smooth at SS. Better than Cecchini. Switch hitter who doesn't have lots of power but will give you tons of line drives.

Re Ramsey, I,m just not seeing him as a good pro. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any plus tools other than maybe the hit tool. Not sure he can hit ML fastballs.

Heard some bad things about Hunter Virant. Supposedly(not my opinion, something I read) he's a dick, folds like lawn furniture under pressure, & blames his fielders if they miss anything. One guy said something like "How would this guy react under playoff pressure?" I bet his Mom likes him though.

I've seen Brady a bit, he's good when he's healthy. He's never healthy.

Gettin Psyched!!!
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:59 pm

My main targets for the first round are (assuming none of the projected top 6-8 slide down):

Marcus Stroman, RHP, Duke -- Only knock is size (5'9), but has the most electric stuff of any college arm not named Gausman. A lot of people see him as a quick moving reliever (which isn't such a bad thing), but I'd definately let him start untill there's no doubt left he can't.

Chris Stratton, RHP, Mississippi State -- low to mid 90's heater, well above average breaking ball and solid change. Also has very nice command. I don't think he's anything less than Wacha who seems to get a bit more attention, and Stratton profiles well as a #3 starter in the majors, possibly #2 if he develops a bit more.

Richie Shaffer, 3B, Clemson -- Just a good hitter with as much power potential as any other college bat (except maybe Roache and Brett Walker). Might not stick at 3rd, but I think he has enough athleticism to handle an outfield corner. Bonus for the Tribe is that he's righthanded and should move fairly quickly if positional switch goes well.

So college players basically. None of the reportedly available HS kids at 15 really warrant the risk/bonus to me. Maybe Dahl, but that's it really.

I also think Trey Williams will be one of the biggest steals in the draft. If he's there in the 2nd round, the Tribe should do a victory lap inside the draft war room.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:42 pm

JP_Frost wrote:My main targets for the first round are (assuming none of the projected top 6-8 slide down):

Marcus Stroman, RHP, Duke -- Only knock is size (5'9), but has the most electric stuff of any college arm not named Gausman. A lot of people see him as a quick moving reliever (which isn't such a bad thing), but I'd definately let him start untill there's no doubt left he can't.

Chris Stratton, RHP, Mississippi State -- low to mid 90's heater, well above average breaking ball and solid change. Also has very nice command. I don't think he's anything less than Wacha who seems to get a bit more attention, and Stratton profiles well as a #3 starter in the majors, possibly #2 if he develops a bit more.

Richie Shaffer, 3B, Clemson -- Just a good hitter with as much power potential as any other college bat (except maybe Roache and Brett Walker). Might not stick at 3rd, but I think he has enough athleticism to handle an outfield corner. Bonus for the Tribe is that he's righthanded and should move fairly quickly if positional switch goes well.

So college players basically. None of the reportedly available HS kids at 15 really warrant the risk/bonus to me. Maybe Dahl, but that's it really.

I also think Trey Williams will be one of the biggest steals in the draft. If he's there in the 2nd round, the Tribe should do a victory lap inside the draft war room.


Seems as though the industry consensus is that the Indians will go college guy with the first pick. Most, if not all draft insiders, now have the Indians preference is a college pitcher (Heaney, Stratton, Wacha) with Heaney their ideal choice and then a college bat (Shaffer or Piscotty) if a pitcher isn't available.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:41 pm

PEngle39 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:My main targets for the first round are (assuming none of the projected top 6-8 slide down):

Marcus Stroman, RHP, Duke -- Only knock is size (5'9), but has the most electric stuff of any college arm not named Gausman. A lot of people see him as a quick moving reliever (which isn't such a bad thing), but I'd definately let him start untill there's no doubt left he can't.

Chris Stratton, RHP, Mississippi State -- low to mid 90's heater, well above average breaking ball and solid change. Also has very nice command. I don't think he's anything less than Wacha who seems to get a bit more attention, and Stratton profiles well as a #3 starter in the majors, possibly #2 if he develops a bit more.

Richie Shaffer, 3B, Clemson -- Just a good hitter with as much power potential as any other college bat (except maybe Roache and Brett Walker). Might not stick at 3rd, but I think he has enough athleticism to handle an outfield corner. Bonus for the Tribe is that he's righthanded and should move fairly quickly if positional switch goes well.

So college players basically. None of the reportedly available HS kids at 15 really warrant the risk/bonus to me. Maybe Dahl, but that's it really.

I also think Trey Williams will be one of the biggest steals in the draft. If he's there in the 2nd round, the Tribe should do a victory lap inside the draft war room.


Seems as though the industry consensus is that the Indians will go college guy with the first pick. Most, if not all draft insiders, now have the Indians preference is a college pitcher (Heaney, Stratton, Wacha) with Heaney their ideal choice and then a college bat (Shaffer or Piscotty) if a pitcher isn't available.


Yeah that seems to be the case. Up untill last year, the Tribe basically drafted only college players with the first pick so it would be going against the grain to think they'll go prep again. That said, if a guy like Correa, Buxton or Fried is there, I'm sure they'll pull the trigger.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:37 am

JP_Frost wrote:
PEngle39 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:My main targets for the first round are (assuming none of the projected top 6-8 slide down):

Marcus Stroman, RHP, Duke -- Only knock is size (5'9), but has the most electric stuff of any college arm not named Gausman. A lot of people see him as a quick moving reliever (which isn't such a bad thing), but I'd definately let him start untill there's no doubt left he can't.

Chris Stratton, RHP, Mississippi State -- low to mid 90's heater, well above average breaking ball and solid change. Also has very nice command. I don't think he's anything less than Wacha who seems to get a bit more attention, and Stratton profiles well as a #3 starter in the majors, possibly #2 if he develops a bit more.

Richie Shaffer, 3B, Clemson -- Just a good hitter with as much power potential as any other college bat (except maybe Roache and Brett Walker). Might not stick at 3rd, but I think he has enough athleticism to handle an outfield corner. Bonus for the Tribe is that he's righthanded and should move fairly quickly if positional switch goes well.

So college players basically. None of the reportedly available HS kids at 15 really warrant the risk/bonus to me. Maybe Dahl, but that's it really.

I also think Trey Williams will be one of the biggest steals in the draft. If he's there in the 2nd round, the Tribe should do a victory lap inside the draft war room.


Seems as though the industry consensus is that the Indians will go college guy with the first pick. Most, if not all draft insiders, now have the Indians preference is a college pitcher (Heaney, Stratton, Wacha) with Heaney their ideal choice and then a college bat (Shaffer or Piscotty) if a pitcher isn't available.


Yeah that seems to be the case. Up untill last year, the Tribe basically drafted only college players with the first pick so it would be going against the grain to think they'll go prep again. That said, if a guy like Correa, Buxton or Fried is there, I'm sure they'll pull the trigger.

I don't believe that Brad Grant is all that hidebound when it college vs HS players. In a thin year for college talent & the opposite for HS, I'd think that if none of the college guys that he likes falls to 15, it would be out of character for him to "force" select a college guy.

Shaffer is okay. None of the college pitchers that you name or any of the others I've seen are any more than run-of-the-mill. I don't want a pitcher at 15 anyway, unless it's someone like Eflin or Weickel. Give me a HS PP for upside & to fit in with all of the talent in the low minors. That is unless someone can convince me that Shaffer can do a Kipnis-like charge through the minors & have that kind of success at the ML level.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:11 am

Rocky55 wrote:I don't believe that Brad Grant is all that hidebound when it college vs HS players. In a thin year for college talent & the opposite for HS, I'd think that if none of the college guys that he likes falls to 15, it would be out of character for him to "force" select a college guy.

Shaffer is okay. None of the college pitchers that you name or any of the others I've seen are any more than run-of-the-mill. I don't want a pitcher at 15 anyway, unless it's someone like Eflin or Weickel. Give me a HS PP for upside & to fit in with all of the talent in the low minors. That is unless someone can convince me that Shaffer can do a Kipnis-like charge through the minors & have that kind of success at the ML level.


I don't have a clue what Grant's instructions are (or if they are anything), but I agree with you 100%. I like Wacha and Stratton, but I am underwhelmed by the group of Wacha, Stratton, Heaney, Shaffer and Piscotty. This college draft class really sucks, and unfortunately a lot of the HS guys that looked good last summer have fallen in value (J Gallo, T Williams, L McCullers, N Williams and even L Giolito).

Regarding Piscotty, I remember seeing him last year and I thought he looked like a prospect, but if you told me that he'd be a mid-first round pick after batting .320 with 5 HR this spring I would have really questioned you. He's got a good body, strong, has a nice swing, some nice tools but he's just not an impact guy. Average across the board. I'd be really disappointed in selecting him at 15.

There always seems to be hype around Stanford prospects -- this may not be fair, but who are the good Stanford players in MLB right now? I always hear about how Stanford's got these good, early round prospects, but seriously, who the hell are they? Jed Lowrie, Carlos Quentin? Jeremy Guthrie is their best pitcher in MLB? There are countless "top prospects" from Stanford that end up sucking bad in pro ball. Yeah, sign me up for Stephen Piscotty; a guy that can't even find a true position in their defense. Outstanding academics, beautiful campus (not to mention its expensive as hell living there), but overrated baseball prospects.

I think Shaffer has a significant amount of more pop in his bat, but he's still got some issues. Vulnerable to K's and while I think he's got the skills, tools to play 3B, he's not a knock-out there.

I've always iked Wacha and would be fine with him, and I think Stratton could be a good MLB SP, too, but neither guy is going to be a top prospect that'd be in the top 100 lists at the end of the year.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:13 am

Don't know if he'll be available in the 2nd but Mason Melotakis, LHP of Northwestern State in Texas is getting a lot of buzz lately for good reason. Skinny mid-eighties kid in HS who has matured, 30 lbs heavier, now sits 94-95 & touches 97. Very good command of the FB plus some deception, spike CB with hard break but not much depth, similar to a slider, working on a changeup. Was a reliever earlier, albeit working in 3-5 inning stints, a few starts later, up to 7IP, maintained velocity well. For the year 62IP/47H/18BB/70K/.206BAA.

PG saying that the thing keeping him out of the 1st is development of secondary pitches. This guys arm is as good as Pomeranz's. Worth a 2nd roud pick.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Tondo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:22 am

Here are a few late round arms I like, mostly Seniors and/or pitchability specs....Tomlin alert :biggrin

Jacob Lee, RHP, Arkansas State...PG has him as a 4th to 10th, but I think he will go 8th-12th, Sun Belt MVP and the type of College consistency I always will burn a mid/late round pick for

Joe Bircher, LHP, Bradley...PG has him as a 4th to 10th rounder too and I think he will go 5th to 10th for sure. PG also has him as the best pitchability spec in Illinois, 1.44 ERA in 8 Cape Cod starts in 2011

Mike Augliera, RHP, Binghampton...surprised to see all those guys as 4th to 10th by PG, maybe it's the new draft settings that pushes those guys up, small RHP, great K:BB ratio throughout College, esp. as a SR (83:7 in 82.2IP)

Justin Haley, RHP, Fresno State...6'5 Junior, re-draft option as Indians picked him very late in 2010 draft, just ranked 43rd College spec in Cal by PG, could be nice value from 10th to 20th, not a sure sign though there

Dane Quist, LHP, UC Davis....small lefty, who had a great SR year, ranked 44th College spec right after Haley in Cali by PG, not the performance consistency I prefer but worth a 15th to 25th rounder considering his steady K:BB ratio improvements

Eddie Orozco, RHP, UC Riverside....another Senior from the state of California, a year older than most SR (23) due to redshirt season, was drafted out of HS in 2007, so might be a nice late round pick

Paul Sewald, RHP, San Diego...and another one, got better when moved from pen to starter...worth a flyer late in the draft to fill out the minor league depth chart

Tom Harlan, LHP, Fresno State...same here, big SR lefty worth a mid/late round pick

Taylor Garrison, RHP, Fresno State...small righty Closer with impressive K/9, was drafted in 27th round last draft and didn't sign...could be value from 12th to 25th

TJ Oakes, RHP, Minnesota...big JR righty, was picked late last draft as draft-eligible SO, 8th to 15th rounder

Tony Bucciferro, RHP, Michigan State....Senior, the kind of late round sleeper I like: consistent, reliable, pitchability....1.90 ERA in 8 CapeCod starts in 2011....Tomlin-alert !

Eric Erickson, LHP, Miami, Fl....small lefty, already drafted in 06 and 09, still just a Jr due to redshirts, but already 24yo, might want to start pro career after all and could be nice value in late rounds...another Tomlin-alert (pitchability, great ratios)

Ross Hammonds, RHP, Western Kentucky....small SR, reliever spec only with very nice ratios...the knd of guy I fill out a roster with in rounds 30-40

David Starn, LHP, Kent State....he is a lefty and he misses bats (near 10 K/9 past 2 seasons) and he pitches for the best College team in Ohio...I have no clue why he went undrafted last year and PG only has him as a 11th + after an impressive SR season....def a guy I want the Indians to take in the 8th to 15th range

Andrew Barbosa, LHP, South Florida....huge SR lefty (6'8), was drafted in 15th round in 2010 draft, is already 24yo and be 25 at the start of next season, PG has him as 38th College spec in Florida


I hope we end up with 2 or 3 of these guys...any more opinions or in depth, insider knowledge on any of these specs are welcome
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby daingean » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:00 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:UNC also has a LHP Kent Emanuel that was discussed last year on this board. He'll be in next year's draft class. He's really a hard guy to figure out -- a very effective pitcher with MLB pitching proportions (height, long arms and legs) but the stuff is below MLB average. I don't think the guy ever has any value as a MLB starter, but you'll probably find a few people that like him. I think 1st round talk is a total joke, but we'll see.


Kent needs to add velocity but he is a pitcher (as opposed to a thrower) and can throw any of his pitches for strikes. He was a HS teammate of my step-son and I am a bit biased. I know that UNC wanted to see him miss more bats (most of his strikeouts last year were called 3rd strikes).
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:14 pm

I've thought about this quite a bit and what if the Indians take Stroman?

Hear me out, its been reported numerous times that the Indians have been receiving calls about Chris Perez and Vinnie Pestano for a year now. The Indians need a right handed bat for the MLB team right NOW, and Perez and Pestano could easily be a key piece to any deal and Stroman could step in and take over the vacant role almost immediately, as long as the reports from Law and Goldstein are true that he could be a dominant MLB closer/setup-man right now.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:29 pm

PEngle39 wrote:I've thought about this quite a bit and what if the Indians take Stroman?

Hear me out, its been reported numerous times that the Indians have been receiving calls about Chris Perez and Vinnie Pestano for a year now. The Indians need a right handed bat for the MLB team right NOW, and Perez and Pestano could easily be a key piece to any deal and Stroman could step in and take over the vacant role almost immediately, as long as the reports from Law and Goldstein are true that he could be a dominant MLB closer/setup-man right now.


I think its hard to bank on a guy in college to be a "dominant" late inning guy, but your point is taken. Law is probably right in that he could pitch in MLB this year, but I doubt he's got the command to be dominant at this point. Its probably more likely that Matt LaPorta comes up, bats .270 with 15 HR the rest of the way, than Stroman being a dominant reliever right out of the gate. That being said, Stroman could probably provide value in the pen in 2012, but dominance could be a stretch.

Regarding him, conventional scouting wisdom says he's not a MLB starter. Part of me says, "Screw it, take him, try him as a SP. If you can get 180+ innings out of him in the majors for two or three seasons before he blows out, that's just fine". Lincecum was a better prospect in his time, but he lasted a lot longer than people thought he would. Pitchers are difficult to predit; if you can get a guy with two MLB plus pitches that can be commanded well, roll the dice and see what happens. I'd prefer that over Heaney or Piscotty.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:18 pm

The thing with Stroman isn't necessarily the lack of a 3rd pitch, as I think he can develop one with proper guidance, nor should it be about durability (even though that's what people say). The main concern about his size should be that it makes it a lot harder for him to throw on a downhill plane and not elevate his pitches. I also read something about him having a bit of a violent delivery.

I'd love to take the gamble and just see what he can do, but I wouldn't hold it against our draft staff if they decide to go another route.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:33 pm

JP_Frost wrote:The thing with Stroman isn't necessarily the lack of a 3rd pitch, as I think he can develop one with proper guidance, nor should it be about durability (even though that's what people say). The main concern about his size should be that it makes it a lot harder for him to throw on a downhill plane and not elevate his pitches. I also read something about him having a bit of a violent delivery.

I'd love to take the gamble and just see what he can do, but I wouldn't hold it against our draft staff if they decide to go another route.


Not sure i would draft him as a starter, although i'm not opposed with the success of the Austin Adams experiment and Stroman's body type compared to the Lincecum's and Bauer's, but the pen needs a bit of a shake up, especially with Sipp being awful, R. Perez being hurt, etc.

Secondly, i would love to draft a player that can help this team NOW and Stroman can help in the late innings now and into the future; i just see flashes of Craig Kimbrel in him and allow the Tribe to flip a Pestano or Perez for a bat....and no i don't think LaPorta is going to help all that much. This team has built itself a window of contention and should capitalize on it.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:30 am

Personally, I believe the Tribe will hit on the best available college player....I'm not saying they won't consider a hs player but the truth is the college players are 1) more likely to sign, 2) likely more MLB ready and 3) could potentially add to the window of contention. I'm not trying to say the tribe will over value a college player but if a hs and a college player are ranked closely, the Tribe pks the college player. A cpl hs arms that may make them reconsider McCullers, and Eflin and a cpl hs bats they may consider Hawkins and Dahl.

I'm not in the Marcus Stroman fan club by any means. Just not a fan, but he could be a MLB setup by August IMO. As for starting I'd say no bc durability is a concern long term. As for the third pitch, personally Im not as concerned. Stroman could be an excellent back of the bullpen arm soon. Truth is with his stuff he may not make it to the Tribes pk. Maybe the White Sox go for him, much like Chris Sale.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Can't see using the draft to help the team this year. That's what trades are for. You trade for a ML player because you can pretty much predict what you're going to get. What college reliever, no matter how advanced, could help a team more than just trading for a Pestano?

I wouldn't bet on any college player even making it to MLB in his draft year, let alone being effective enough to make a difference.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Can't see using the draft to help the team this year. That's what trades are for. You trade for a ML player because you can pretty much predict what you're going to get. What college reliever, no matter how advanced, could help a team more than just trading for a Pestano?

I wouldn't bet on any college player even making it to MLB in his draft year, let alone being effective enough to make a difference.


It was just an outside-the-box idea....

Every draft "expert" has said Stroman could be a relief pitcher in the MLB right now and be very effective. I don't know if you've been watching the last few Tribe games but the pen has really struggled in close games, and don't get me started on the starting pitching. I also think Stroman could be signed below slot and allow the Indians to spend later in the draft. Do i think it's a likely scenario? No, probably not, but something interesting to consider.

Yes, trades do occasionally help an MLB team immediately, but can you pretty much predict what you're going to get? Not so much; case in point, Ubaldo Jimenez. I would find it hard for any MLB GM to be out of a job if they could "pretty much predict" what they're going to get from each and every one of their MLBers. That's simply not always the case.

And trades? Who do we trade? The minor league system is chalk full of young kids with massive question marks and most trades revolve around more advanced minor leaguers and the Indians simply don't have much there. All i know is the Indians will continue to face every LHP an opposing team can scrounge up until they find a RH bat. If a bullpen arm can help get that, then why not, it's a bullpen arm?
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby daingean » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:28 pm

PEngle39 wrote: If a bullpen arm can help get that, then why not, it's a bullpen arm?


I'm one of those guys that believe that the game has changed. A strong BP will help a team get an extra 20 wins (even a team that is as offensively challenged as the Indians are). I think the fact that because we have (IMO) the best BP in the AL, we are still challenging for the AL Central lead. I think trading 2 late game BP arms will not be worth what we get in return. Our best hope is to get a player from another team's salary dump. (It's obvious to me Damon and Kotchman are not the answers).
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:53 pm

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/smokesigna ... side-pitch

Jeff and I will be discussing everything draft related tonight.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:12 pm

Saw Gausman. He's really improved from last year. I know it's kind of off-topic b/c he wont be around for the Indians, but it will be interesting to see who goes first tomorrow night; Appel or Gausman. This isn't a prediction on tomorrow, but I think Gausman ends up better than Appel.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby PEngle39 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:02 pm

daingean wrote:
PEngle39 wrote: If a bullpen arm can help get that, then why not, it's a bullpen arm?


I'm one of those guys that believe that the game has changed. A strong BP will help a team get an extra 20 wins (even a team that is as offensively challenged as the Indians are). I think the fact that because we have (IMO) the best BP in the AL, we are still challenging for the AL Central lead. I think trading 2 late game BP arms will not be worth what we get in return. Our best hope is to get a player from another team's salary dump. (It's obvious to me Damon and Kotchman are not the answers).


I should have worded it better. My point was if the Indians draft Stroman to be in the bullpen, he could fill a hole in the immediate future, especially if the Indians decide to deal from a strength on the MLB team to fill a weaker hole; OF, DH, 1B, etc.

Again, i don't think this is going to happen but i just wanted to provide a unique perspective because Stroman is a unique player. I just think the future is now for the Tribe and if a high draft pick can significantly improve the MLB team in the next 1-3 years, then the Indians should do whatever it takes to do it because this core (Kipnis, Cabrera, Chisenhall, Santana, Brantley, Masterson, Perez) is pretty special.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Needs change. Maybe the Indians call up Cody Allen, Bryce Stowell and Chen Lee over the next couple of months and they are lights out. No need for a reliever then. Or perhaps you do draft Stroman instead of the BPA (not saying Stroman isn't), and he blows out his elbow in his first pro game. Now you're stuck with an injured player that may be inferior in talent to another guy you could've picked.

There's only one reason to draft for need: that's when you have two or more prospects comparable in talent and you give the edge to the guy who plays the position you're lacking in. Otherwise you just go with who the best player is and see where his talents eventually end up. Obviously cost plays a role as well, but lets assume the Tribe doesn't pinch pennies with their first pick.

It's going to be really interesting to see what happens the next couple of days. This has the be one of the most unpredictable drafts in years and everybody's going to be a bit uncomfortable with the new rules. I wonder if any team is willing to be penalized next year and dishes out ridiculous bonuses, or if a team punts every pick after the 6th round or so and spends its money on those players. I'm still not convinced this system will be any good, and right now it certainly seems a lot harder on smaller market teams. Just when the Indians decided to spend a ton of cash on the draft, a new CBA changes everything.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:28 am

Draft day has arrived.. and still no specific indication of who the number 1 overall is going to be, however, the top of the draft appears to be decided:

1a. Byron Buxton
1b. Mark Appel
3. Carlos Correa
4. Kevin Gausman
5. Mike Zunino

While there are other names that may be considered, the Indians will have to wait through nine additional picks before sending their vote in. In a perfect Wahoo World & throwing caution to the wind, on that small scrap of paper will be written the name Lucas Giolito.
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Richie Shaffer wouldn't be a bad choice & he'd probably become exactly what is expected, but, he doesn't have the star potential Giolito has..or ever will have. The Indians may just decide that throwing caution to the wind in a restricted draft scenario as defined by the new CBA rules as the best use of their funds. This would be one of the bigger 'boom/bust' selections in Indians history...

Okay.. let's hear the selections.. Who's name will be written on that little scrap of paper that will be sent to the podium around 8:15 this evening?..
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:47 am

These changes in the draft suck big ones. To have a free market, namely Free Agency, for the big market teams & market controls on the Draft, the only avenue in which the small market/lesser performing teams have an advantage is just disgusting. It's like having a race between Usain Bolt & Prince Fielder, giving Bolt a head start, & making Fielder wear ankle weights.

Why did they even do this? The draft budgets were self regulating anyway. Spend too much on the wrong players & suffer the consequences.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:17 am

Rocky55 wrote:These changes in the draft suck big ones. To have a free market, namely Free Agency, for the big market teams & market controls on the Draft, the only avenue in which the small market/lesser performing teams have an advantage is just disgusting. It's like having a race between Usain Bolt & Prince Fielder, giving Bolt a head start, & making Fielder wear ankle weights.

Why did they even do this? The draft budgets were self regulating anyway. Spend too much on the wrong players & suffer the consequences.


The cost of IFA's and the 'dropping' of prospects (such as Verlander) for signability issues appear at the heart of the reasoning used to make the fundamental changes to the Rule IV draft. There are also considerable collateral issues that come into play:

1. High School kids that would otherwise be drafted & signed w/ big bonuses (e.d. Alex Levisky) would be more inclined to go to college for a year or three than take the $ 100K and go to East Podunk of the short season sub-class A league..

2. Players just entering the profession of being a 'baseball player' will not have the opportunity to be the "bonus baby" thereby garnering higher priority with the club at the expense of a lesser paid prospect. While it's nice to think that once the signing process is over and done, the mere fact that a bonus babe is on the roster gives that player some very tangible advantages over players that aren't...

3. The amount of cash high draft choices get is contrary to their readiness as Major League Players. If baseball is a business, and it is, how can a business justify paying ten or twenty times the price tag for an unproven commodity while a player that has performed admirably makes the major league minimum.. e.g. Pedro Alvarez was paid a $ 6 MM signing bonus (spread out over four years) while David Freese of the defending World Series Champion St Louis Cardinals signed a $ 6,000 signing bonus and is currently making $ 508K. It just doesn't make sense..

The changes will affect many players as it is effectively a Rookie Salary Cap with some flexibility and some serious penalties for anyone that wants to break the barriers. The NBA has avoided the turmoil that the first round picks holding out on the advice of their agents put teams (and their fans) through. The NFL is similar. It is only with baseball that the ceiling is sort of open.. Paying a dollar for dollar tax plus the loss of future participation in the upper levels of the draft should keep the sanity level for draft picks at least reasonable.

Next up will be the signing of International Free Agents.. Do you think the Gerardo Concepcion IFA deal hasn't been looked at by the ML owners to say: ".. no way do we want to go there again..."
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:32 am

After putting salary caps, non-guaranteed FA contracts, revenue sharing, the ability to trade draft picks ala the NFL/NBA on MLB, the new draft rules might make sense.

Rules restricting FA signings at the ML level to even the playing field, if that was the intention, might make sense.

Restricting the advantage that the smaller market/underperforming teams to load up on prospects via the draft makes no sense, unless the intention is to have them serve ad infinitum as cannon fodder for the rich big market clubs.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:52 pm

I don't expect the Indians to do it, but if I happened to be calling the shots, I'd take Giolito at 15 if he happens to be there. Don't give me talk about bonus pools; you can get a senior sign in the 2nd round to make up for the bonus demands of Giolito (maybe even another signability guy). Ross Stripling of Texas A&M in the second round fits that billing for me; I think he's a very nice prospect and would be happy taking him at a discount in the 2nd round to make room for Giolito.

Aces are the most valuable commodity in baseball and you can build teams around them. There's lots of risk and chances that he doesn't turn out to be an ace are greater than 50%, but in the middle of the 1st round you often don't get to take impact talent like this. Take a shot at him. It's hard to build championship teams around college pitchers that have upsides as 3 starters.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Sign me up for Gioloto but don't think he slides that far. Just heard Hart say that HS bats are the strength of the draft. I agree & think we should go with that, not counter to it. Forcing the college arm is stupid.

I'd agree with your scenario though. There are plenty of signability guys in rounds 2 & 3 to cover a big over slot round 1 bonus. That would apply to any of the top guys that fall.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:09 pm

Does Houston change leagues next year? That means the AL will have the top five picks this year.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:11 pm

I think I'd go Buxton or Correa if I'm the 'Stros.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:14 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Sign me up for Gioloto but don't think he slides that far. Just heard Hart say that HS bats are the strength of the draft. I agree & think we should go with that, not counter to it. Forcing the college arm is stupid.

I'd agree with your scenario though. There are plenty of signability guys in rounds 2 & 3 to cover a big over slot round 1 bonus. That would apply to any of the top guys that fall.


Agreed, but I just don't see him slipping that far. And maybe I'm wrong, it's hard to explain, but wouldn't the elbow concern make him more signable than ever? Not that he'll come cheaply, but he'll be more inclined to sign now and just get on with his career. I don't know why I agree with that thought, I read it somewhere and thought it makes a bit of sense.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:15 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Does Houston change leagues next year? That means the AL will have the top five picks this year.


Yeah, Houston joins the AL West in 2013.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:15 pm

Saw Ripkin on a commercial. His kid Ryan is in this draft. He's a tall gangly kid that looks like a Thoroughbred colt. Has a really nice swing.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:17 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Sign me up for Gioloto but don't think he slides that far. Just heard Hart say that HS bats are the strength of the draft. I agree & think we should go with that, not counter to it. Forcing the college arm is stupid.

I'd agree with your scenario though. There are plenty of signability guys in rounds 2 & 3 to cover a big over slot round 1 bonus. That would apply to any of the top guys that fall.


Agreed, but I just don't see him slipping that far. And maybe I'm wrong, it's hard to explain, but wouldn't the elbow concern make him more signable than ever? Not that he'll come cheaply, but he'll be more inclined to sign now and just get on with his career. I don't know why I agree with that thought, I read it somewhere and thought it makes a bit of sense.

You'd think it would make him more signable just to get the TJ surgery paid for.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:17 pm

WOW!

Stros take Correa!?!
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:17 pm

Correa first....very interesting.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:18 pm

GoTribe028 wrote:WOW!

Stros take Correa!?!

PG had that right. They said he's the top player far and away. Think Buxton's too raw.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby TheWord » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Shocking the baseball world, let's see where the Twins go now.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby GoTribe028 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:21 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
GoTribe028 wrote:WOW!

Stros take Correa!?!

PG had that right. They said he's the top player far and away. Think Buxton's too raw.


Kudos to them then, I was just certain Appel was going home to Houston.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:22 pm

PG raves about Correa's power, ranking it right near the top in HS. They've seen him more than anyone.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:25 pm

Twinks just love the toolsy HS OFs.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:27 pm

Great pick for Houston.

Buxton is a great pick for the Twins as well.

I'm saying Appel slides to KC.
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Re: 2012 Draft Prospects

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:29 pm

I've heard that Baltimore really likes Gausman. Wonder if they pass on Appel for Gausman. I would.
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