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Carmona / Heredia Options

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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:05 pm

Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:34 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.


I wouldn't say this necessarily. I'd put the odds a bit higher that he returns. Just because you're on the restricted list today doesn't mean you can't be brought off before opening day. Really the only reason you do this now is to free up a 40-man spot.....could be a ML signing (or trade) is coming soon...
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:42 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.


I wouldn't say this necessarily. I'd put the odds a bit higher that he returns. Just because you're on the restricted list today doesn't mean you can't be brought off before opening day. Really the only reason you do this now is to free up a 40-man spot.....could be a ML signing (or trade) is coming soon...


That, and the whole "you don't have to pay him" thing.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:35 pm

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.


I wouldn't say this necessarily. I'd put the odds a bit higher that he returns. Just because you're on the restricted list today doesn't mean you can't be brought off before opening day. Really the only reason you do this now is to free up a 40-man spot.....could be a ML signing (or trade) is coming soon...


That, and the whole "you don't have to pay him" thing.


But is Carmona (or anyone on the 40-man) being paid right now though? Thought paychecks didn't start til spring training at least?
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:12 am

Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.


I wouldn't say this necessarily. I'd put the odds a bit higher that he returns. Just because you're on the restricted list today doesn't mean you can't be brought off before opening day. Really the only reason you do this now is to free up a 40-man spot.....could be a ML signing (or trade) is coming soon...


That, and the whole "you don't have to pay him" thing.


But is Carmona (or anyone on the 40-man) being paid right now though? Thought paychecks didn't start til spring training at least?

I think you are probably right about the timing of paychecks and the somewhat better odds Hermie. I also think the potential $7M contract will be less meaningful as a payroll cost if he can come back at all this season. :pleasantry:
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:12 am

Carmona is going to miss a significant portion of the season, maybe the whole year....maybe the rest of his career.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby ironmike » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:58 am

Sad situation. Let's hope it gets straightened out and he can play again in the future. Would the Indians still have him under control for 2013 if he misses the entire season?
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:24 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:Well its about as official as it gets - the tribe have put Carmona on the restricted list...... I would say the odds of seeing a return of Caromeredia returning as a Cleveland Indian this year at less than 5 percent. Infact give me 10 to 1 he never plays another game as an Indian.


I wouldn't say this necessarily. I'd put the odds a bit higher that he returns. Just because you're on the restricted list today doesn't mean you can't be brought off before opening day. Really the only reason you do this now is to free up a 40-man spot.....could be a ML signing (or trade) is coming soon...


That, and the whole "you don't have to pay him" thing.


But is Carmona (or anyone on the 40-man) being paid right now though? Thought paychecks didn't start til spring training at least?

I think you are probably right about the timing of paychecks and the somewhat better odds Hermie. I also think the potential $7M contract will be less meaningful as a payroll cost if he can come back at all this season. :pleasantry:


First checks for BOB for the 2012 season are sent in April. Until the Indians apply to the commissioner's office to have him removed from the restricted list & is reinstated off the list, the Indians are not required to pay and his spot on the 40 man roster does not count..
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Edible14 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:31 pm

ironmike wrote:Sad situation. Let's hope it gets straightened out and he can play again in the future. Would the Indians still have him under control for 2013 if he misses the entire season?


Yes. But they would have to choose to pick up his $9MM option. Which I'm not sure they would want to do for a 32 year old with a shaky history who will have been out of the game for an entire year. Doubly so if guys like Gomez, Barnes, Huff and McAllister have strong showings this year (and they still have Carrasco coming back in 2013 as well).
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby daingean » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:37 pm

Edible14 wrote:
ironmike wrote:Sad situation. Let's hope it gets straightened out and he can play again in the future. Would the Indians still have him under control for 2013 if he misses the entire season?


Yes. But they would have to choose to pick up his $9MM option. Which I'm not sure they would want to do for a 32 year old with a shaky history who will have been out of the game for an entire year. Doubly so if guys like Gomez, Barnes, Huff and McAllister have strong showings this year (and they still have Carrasco coming back in 2013 as well).


I also think that with Carrasco coming back and the acquisition of Slowey makes it look like the Indians are preparing to move on. Now if they do choose to bring back Hernandez if they can (Latin American names are father's surname mother's surname so Heredia is really his mother's surname and Hernandez would be the surname he uses in the US).
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GhostofTedCox » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:54 pm

daingean wrote:
I also think that with Carrasco coming back and the acquisition of Slowey makes it look like the Indians are preparing to move on. Now if they do choose to bring back Hernandez if they can (Latin American names are father's surname mother's surname so Heredia is really his mother's surname and Hernandez would be the surname he uses in the US).


Thanks for that info. I learned something today.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:18 pm

The fact that "Bob" is being visible in support of younger players being honest is a good sign IMO. Has anyone seen/ heard what the former Marlins pitcher "Leo Nunez" has been up to? If he has been doing similar, it might just be part of the process. If "Leo" is staying out of the light, it could be even better for Bob.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GhostofTedCox » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:16 am

Well, it seems as if Hernandez is all square with the government of the Dominican Republic. Charges have been dropped. Now bigger fish to fry with the US government.

But, progress seems to be going in the right direction. I really didn't expect Hernandez to be back this season. But it looks like I might be wrong.

One would hope, with the pressure lifted, that Hernandez would pitch with a little more confidence.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:03 pm

Never saw the D.R aspect as having much to do with hernandez/carmona returning. They have almost nothing at stake. Its the feds here at home who have the true beef and simply letting him return so quickly and with little to no penalty because he is a pro athlete would be a total abuse of our legal system.. he should not be allowed to return to the united states for at least 6 months. A fraud, a criminal is just that the reason doesnt matter that much.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby daingean » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:56 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Never saw the D.R aspect as having much to do with hernandez/carmona returning. They have almost nothing at stake. Its the feds here at home who have the true beef and simply letting him return so quickly and with little to no penalty because he is a pro athlete would be a total abuse of our legal system.. he should not be allowed to return to the united states for at least 6 months. A fraud, a criminal is just that the reason doesnt matter that much.


There's a lot of money involved for the F-Bob. I'm not suprised by the D.R. aspect of this. If he can get back into ML baseball, the D.R. could receive some additional tax revenue (not to mention any other official whose palm was greased by Hernandez's reprsentatives). Now on the US side, there is really some dark clouds for the sinker baller but it would not suprise me if he gets his visa in a month or so. After all, the D.R. stands to make some much needed $$$ and their gov't may work hard with the US to get it done. If it does work out, it's a shame because a guy like Kelvin Diaz tried to get in (with I assume his real identity) and couldn't.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:29 am

HUGE hurdle to clear with the US government. H-U-G-E. I wouldn't expect anything anytime soon on that, and even when that is cleared up he may be slapped with a 25-50 game suspension (or less) by MLB. I would still be surprised if he returns before June....and I think even before the All Star break may be pushing it.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:34 pm

TonyIPI wrote:HUGE hurdle to clear with the US government. H-U-G-E. I wouldn't expect anything anytime soon on that, and even when that is cleared up he may be slapped with a 25-50 game suspension (or less) by MLB. I would still be surprised if he returns before June....and I think even before the All Star break may be pushing it.


While MLB may consider what BOB a.k.a. FAUSTO has done "not in the best interest of baseball" or an ethical violation, the MLBPA will argue vociferously that this is not the case and will win. A suspension would be 'piling on" imho... The real issue is the US Consulate.. Having traveled a lot during the past, there are essentially four things that will hold up a work visa. After the US Consulate in the DR determines that BOB is not a considered as a potential terrorist/threat, these are the things that will (or should) delay the Visa from being processed:

1. BOB doesn't spell his name correctly.. As everyone is pretty much aware, this should not be a problem as the newly issued supporting documentation and passport will be in his hands

2. The process used specific to the DR isn't followed. This is also unlikely as BOB will no doubt follow the DR resident US Consulate's protocol to a tee... If BOB doesn't, he's an idiot and deserves to rot in the DR...

3. If BOB is unable to clearly describe the work he's doing while he's in the US, then the third 'usual' issue with obtaining a work Visa will be a problem: If he writes: Professional Athlete, Pitcher, Cleveland Indians, this should cover this issue.

4. If BOB was from Afghanistan or Syria or Iran (i.e. his name comes up on the US State Department's list of potential terrorists or bad guys), then this could delay his Visa application process. This isn't the case with BOB.

As in BOB's case, the visa should be issued within a matter of days or, at most, a couple of weeks. If it's not, then the US State department is SCREWING THE POOCH and NOT DOING THEIR JOB. The appearance of 'conducting' an investigation as opposed to actually doing an investigation is at the heart of this matter.. Taking your shoes off when you go through the line at the airport.. is such a sham..
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:28 pm

This from MLB Trade Rumors: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/03/i ... tract.html

The Indians and Roberto Hernandez (a.k.a. Fausto Carmona) have restructured the right-hander's contract, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (Twitter links). His 2012 salary will now be "far less" than the $7MM he was scheduled to earn, and an option year in his contract has been eliminated.

The contract originally included a $9MM option for 2013 and a $12MM option for 2014. The Indians exercised Hernandez's $7MM option for 2012 last fall, before issues surrounding his age and identity emerged.


What the new deal entails is anyone's guess.. but it won't be $ 9 or $ 12 MM for 2013 & 2014 respectively.. nor will BOB get $ 7 MM for 2012, as originally thought.. I'm sure the MLBPA may have something to say about this.. but, they're really not in a position to 'help', as it would be...
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:53 pm

Some likely relevant news about the pitcher fka Leo Nunez...

According to Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, Juan Carlos Oviedo will be handed a six-week suspension by MLB once he is cleared to return to the United States.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon May 28, 2012 4:55 pm

If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 28, 2012 6:04 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.


Some July, August and September.. at least 60 games.. perhaps more.. At the pro-rated rate of 37.5 % of $ 2 MM, that would be fine.. and significant...
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unless, being significant or not isn't what your point was.. just that BOB! won't be here...

And.. now this from the wandering and feeble mind of Paul Hoynes (in the wake of the Juan Carlos Oviedo status change):

..Roberto Hernandez could be back in the Major Leagues by the All-Star Break, reports Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Hernandez, a.k.a. Fausto Carmona, isn't expected to receive an eight-week suspension for identity fraud like Juan Carlos Oviedo, as his restructured contract with the Indians is expected to be seen as sufficient penalty...


As per usual.. none of the principals to the story are quoted, referenced or indicated in any way.. MLB has not even been referenced as a source for no comment. The "...isn't expected.." part of the comment is clearly Paul Hoynes putting his diaper on.. SMH.. What did Cleveland do to get such a clueless moron for a beat writer?...
Last edited by GeronimoSon on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Hermie13 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:55 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.


According to recent reports, it's expected that Carmona/Hernandez will NOT be suspended by MLB and that his pay-cut he took will be considered his penalty. Some are optimistic that he could be in Cleveland around the All-Star break...
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:38 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.


According to recent reports, it's expected that Carmona/Hernandez will NOT be suspended by MLB and that his pay-cut he took will be considered his penalty. Some are optimistic that he could be in Cleveland around the All-Star break...


I've been meaning to ask about this. How did that conversation even come about? It seems odd that the Indians FO could promise a lighter suspension by getting him to agree to a lower contract. And if the suspension happens anyway, that has to put the FO in a terrible light with players. Hell, that could even be MLBPA grievance material. I'm wondering why the Indians felt they could make that promise.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.


According to recent reports, it's expected that Carmona/Hernandez will NOT be suspended by MLB and that his pay-cut he took will be considered his penalty. Some are optimistic that he could be in Cleveland around the All-Star break...


I've been meaning to ask about this. How did that conversation even come about? It seems odd that the Indians FO could promise a lighter suspension by getting him to agree to a lower contract. And if the suspension happens anyway, that has to put the FO in a terrible light with players. Hell, that could even be MLBPA grievance material. I'm wondering why the Indians felt they could make that promise.


It sounded like it was a mutual thing on the paycut with the Indians and Carmona/his people. Not like the Indians just cut his pay, Carmona agreed to it knowing the risks.
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Re: Carmona / Heredia Options

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:27 pm

Edible14 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:If anyone still thought the Indians would get significant innings from Faustberto Carmandez this season, I think they can now officially forget about it. Juan Oviedo has been suspended for 8 weeks for ID fraud, and his situation is completely resolved. He's received his visa and is now back in the US, but it will still be late July before he's eligible to pitch for the Marlins again.


According to recent reports, it's expected that Carmona/Hernandez will NOT be suspended by MLB and that his pay-cut he took will be considered his penalty. Some are optimistic that he could be in Cleveland around the All-Star break...


I've been meaning to ask about this. How did that conversation even come about? It seems odd that the Indians FO could promise a lighter suspension by getting him to agree to a lower contract. And if the suspension happens anyway, that has to put the FO in a terrible light with players. Hell, that could even be MLBPA grievance material. I'm wondering why the Indians felt they could make that promise.


There is no promise.. the idea that MLB will suspend Juan Carlos Oviedo for identity fraud and won't suspend BOB!! for the same offense if he forfeits a big chunk of his guaranteed salary is pure whimsy on Paul Hoynes' part. He's grasping at the wind..and, like his usual journalistic efforts.. is failing..
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