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Panic on south-side of Chicago???

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Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby MadThinker88 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:22 pm

Panic is the only reason why I can see the ChiSox taking Chris Sale out of the rotation & installing him as the new closer.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Magneticnorth451 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:36 pm

I believe he's experiencing elbow pain, which is why he's in the bullpen.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat May 05, 2012 11:53 am

Magneticnorth451 wrote:I believe he's experiencing elbow pain, which is why he's in the bullpen.


I've seen a lot of Sale's starts -- he's been electric and I'm really surprised how good he's been against right handed hitters -- his slider is just so good and gets good depth. You just don't see many guys with Sale's body-type, arm slot and delivery that last very long as starters in the major leagues. It really hurts the White Sox to move Sale to the pen, but it's better for Sale's long-term health.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sat May 05, 2012 1:25 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're referring to as the "panic"... panic over Sale's elbow or panic over the back end of their bullpen? It's possibly the former, but certainly isn't the latter, since they were definitely a better team with him starting every five days. Also, based on their moves over the last couple of years, the White Sox don't seem like an organization that overvalues the closer's role. However, I did think it was stupid to announce him as the closer three days before he's even available to pitch again... not a big deal, but it does nothing for the guys trying to close out games over the weekend.

As for it possibly being a panic move in regards to his elbow, I'm surprised they're making what seems to be a permanent decision this soon, but none of us are in a position to know what Chicago's medical staff knows. It is rather funny that they admit to "elbow tenderness" but are rather vehemently stating that he's not injured... that admission will probably come later.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat May 05, 2012 4:58 pm

In some cases with a pitchers elbow, it becomes tender.. or sore.. or stiff.. or "..just not right.." but, not quite to a point where they need to shut it down. The degree of the issue gets incrementally worse and worse as the season moves along. The amount of time being iced & the length of time to "get loose" goes up.. While it's not an injury..it's definitely "just not right" The CWSox have two guys in AAA that are preforming very well: Axelrod and Stults... With the "mess" that their pen is in.. and the availability of two SP's performing so well at AAA, and the performance, especially the early parts of outings by Sale.. it all points to the move.

BTW.. Sale would be throwing a side session / bullpen session either today or tomorrow..so, it wouldn't be a big lapse of time before he would be on the hill if needed...
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sat May 05, 2012 5:40 pm

No need for speculation on the time table, Ventura announced up front that Sale isn't pitching this weekend and will next be available on Monday in Cleveland.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat May 05, 2012 10:45 pm

I was referring to the chiSox panicking about it's bullpen. Yes Sale as a rotation guy is more valuable to most teams.
Sale is not a fan of this move. Unless he flourishes & eventually embraces this role, Sale will be an eventual trade piece.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun May 06, 2012 9:29 am

MadThinker88 wrote:I was referring to the chiSox panicking about it's bullpen. Yes Sale as a rotation guy is more valuable to most teams.
Sale is not a fan of this move. Unless he flourishes & eventually embraces this role, Sale will be an eventual trade piece.

I don't see it. This is all about getting contributions from a healthy Chris Sale for as long as they can.

Two years ago they had a veteran closer with Bobby Jenks and let him walk. Then they allowed Sergio Santos to win the closer's job after just one full season in the majors. They followed that season by trading Santos for nothing more than a minor league pitcher who's only considered a future mid-rotation starter. Then they allowed a rookie to win the closer's role this spring.

None of that sounds like a team that's going to panic over who their official closer is just one month into the season. They also have Addison Reed in the pen. He was their top prospect coming into the season, has been dominant, and has been considered their closer of the future (unless they attempted to make him a starter like Sale). If this was all about finding a closer, he was the obvious next candidate. If this was only short-term thinking, they'd be better off trying Reed as the closer and keep Sale in the rotation... of the two starters mentioned earlier in the thread to replace Sale, Axelrod has a nice short sample size, but back-of-the-rotation stuff, and Stults is nothing... a AAAA journeyman who's had a nice month in the minors.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 pm

Sale is going for an MRI on his elbow that was scheduled BEFORE he pitched yesterday.

How irresponsible is it of an organisation to let him continue to pitch after he's been scheduled for an MRI for a sore elbow.... it's just absolutely crazy!!
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 09, 2012 6:41 pm

Well. the lineup is a bit of a puzzle..

-Giving Jason Donald getting a start at 3B..but how about 2B with Kipnis being given a rest against tough lefty?
-Why is Kotchman in the lineup?. Can't Shelly play a game at 1B?
-Wouldn't having Jake Peavy as the opposition SP say stack the RH hitters?.. as in Marson at C?
-Why not give PRONK an off night and let Carlos DH?
-Why isn't Cunningham starting for one of the three OF'ers?

Okay.. just seems that the chance to stack a lineup with RH hitters against a tough lefty starter and an opponent who has a lefty loaded pen would make the most sense.. smh.. puzzling lineup..

Is this a less puzzling lineup against an overly heavy left handed pitching opponent?:

1. Johnny Damon LF
2. Jason Kipnis 2B
3. Asdrubal Cabrera SS
4. Carlos Santana DH
5. Shelly Duncan 1B
6. Shin-soo Choo RF
7. Jason Donald 3B
8. Lou Marson C
9. Aaron Cunningham CF
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed May 09, 2012 6:50 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Well. the lineup is a bit of a puzzle..

-Giving Jason Donald getting a start at 3B..but how about 2B with Kipnis being given a rest against tough lefty?
-Why is Kotchman in the lineup?. Can't Shelly play a game at 1B?
-Wouldn't having Jake Peavy as the opposition SP say stack the RH hitters?.. as in Marson at C?
-Why not give PRONK an off night and let Carlos DH?
-Why isn't Cunningham starting for one of the three OF'ers?

Okay.. just seems that the chance to stack a lineup with RH hitters against a tough lefty starter and an opponent who has a lefty loaded pen would make the most sense.. smh.. puzzling lineup..

Is this a less puzzling lineup against an overly heavy left handed pitching opponent?:

1. Johnny Damon LF
2. Jason Kipnis 2B
3. Asdrubal Cabrera SS
4. Carlos Santana DH
5. Shelly Duncan 1B
6. Shin-soo Choo RF
7. Jason Donald 3B
8. Lou Marson C
9. Aaron Cunningham CF


You probably posted this in the wrong thread, but who cares.

You know Peavy is a RHP, right?

Donald is starting at 3B because Hannahan has a sore left groin.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 10, 2012 8:56 am

..You know Peavy is a RHP, right?..


Yes.. I know he's a right handed pitcher.. His slider is just sooooo nasty on LH hitters with it's tilt and velocity. It's kind of like Raffy Perez's back foot slider to RH hitters, but, he throws it for six or seven innings. He makes LH hitters look really bad..
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:08 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
..You know Peavy is a RHP, right?..


Yes.. I know he's a right handed pitcher.. His slider is just sooooo nasty on LH hitters with it's tilt and velocity. It's kind of like Raffy Perez's back foot slider to RH hitters, but, he throws it for six or seven innings. He makes LH hitters look really bad..


You did say the Tribe was facing a tough lefty a few times though. Mistakes happen though.

True that Peavy has made lefties look bad this year as they are now hitting .216/.245/.304/.549 off him with only 1 HR and 7 extra base hits while striking them out once every 3.49 at-bats (5:1 K/BB ratio too).

Then again, righties are hitting an even worse .157/.191/.241/.432 with 1 HR and 4 extra base hits while striking them out once every 2.55 at-bats (8:1 K/BB ratio too).

The only thing odd about the Tribe lineup yesterday was Donald being in there as a righty, but that was explained by Hannahan having a sore hammy. Really isn't a good way to go at Peavy right now, but he is actually much tougher on righties in the early going (OPS against over 100 pts lower).
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby MadThinker88 » Fri May 11, 2012 10:20 pm

For those that didn't see the announcement, the ChiSox have moved Sale back into the rotation.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:25 pm

White Sox have acquired Kevin Youkilis... details still sketchy. The Red Sox are getting Zach Stewart and a yet-to-be-revealed utility player, but every guy who's played a game at 3B for Chicago this year fits that description. The rumor is Scott Lillibridge, but the details won't be announced until the White Sox finish their extra-inning game. Youkilis will play 3B for the White Sox, and unless he's 100% healthy, I like this deal as a Tribe fan... subtraction by addition for the ChiSox, and that return isn't going to go over well in Red Sox Nation either (Stewart seems to be a pitcher a lot of teams have wanted until they got him).
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:38 pm

Zach Stewart and Brent Lillebridge for Youk and $5m+
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Tondo » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:39 pm

Really? We could not have offered Kluber and Lopez for Youkilis? Because that's exactly what the White Sox gave up for the Greek God of Walks....are you kidding me? That's highway robbery

This one will bite us in the arse....stupid non move and huge upgrade for next to nothing for a Divison foe....I mean, even if Youk doesn't return to his .800 to .900 OPS days he's still a huge upgrade over a Lopez...and I would have happily thrown Kluber their way to aquire him, maybe sweeten the pot with 1 of our many BP arms in the system

Can't believe we couldn't come up with a similar offer...it's not like we needed a middle of the order RH bat, right? Total bummer, stupid, stupid non move with next to no risk attached
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:00 am

Im not a fan of Youkilis when it comes to lets say personality but considering our 1B and even 3B situation and his RIGHT HANDEDNESS he would have been a fit. Look at it this way if we could have traded Donald and Gomez/Barnes/Kluber even McAllister at the start of the season for this guy - it would have been a score. Now a potent divisional rival has him and we have what?

We have a manager treading watering with a suspect ML club. Santana is really starting to suck (I believe he will come around - when is the ???), Lopez is a hope, and Duncan whom I was rooting for are not getting it done. So now we wait for whatever scrapheap pick-up we can make to rectify a problem that has existed for WELL OVER A YEAR. Who's fault is that??? Willingham wasn't signed despite his "perfect fit offensively but not defensively" - he would has started every frikking game in LF this year, because he wanted a 3 year deal... Beltran knew playing here was a joke... Cespedes was never a real option - whos fault is that? Who's fault is it we still do not have a RH in our line up????????? We lost out to the Twins, Cards and A's - small market whatever. Apparently Gaby Sanchez was our one serious attempt to address the lack of RH hitting this off-season and once Pujols went to the Angels that was that. Now our only internal option AKA LaPorta (who has stunk in the ML) has been passed over for the time being.. Anyone here still wouldn't trade Trumbo for Chiz straight up??? Ha! So whats the real issue here? Easy to see why fans in Cleveland don't have respect for Indians if you ask me.... Sometime I feel like a battered wife, knowing greener pastures exist on the other side of the fence but just love my man too much.....

Really the overall managment for the Indians has SUCKED for the past couple of years. Good thing the players have hearts and Acta somehow is able to get the best out of them most games.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:35 am

I agree that Youk probably would've helped somewhat.... maybe not as much as some people think though (he does have a sub .700 OPS).

Problem isn't the players given up to get him but, even with the Red Sox picking up a good chunk of the money, the W/Sox are paying him about $2m the rest of the way.

I don't know but, I suspect that $2m might be all the money the Tribe has to play with all year - probably not a good idea to blow that on hoping Youk turns it around.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Meh, I'm not that sour about it. He would've been a decent pickup, but there's a reason the Red Sox wanted to get rid of him and it isn't just Middlebrooks. He struggled in the second half of 2011 and now the first half of 2012. Add to that his age and that he's a bit injury prone.

I think the Tribe just didn't want to blow whatever assets they have so early in the season and see what becomes available when we get closer to the deadline.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:13 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Meh, I'm not that sour about it. He would've been a decent pickup, but there's a reason the Red Sox wanted to get rid of him and it isn't just Middlebrooks. He struggled in the second half of 2011 and now the first half of 2012. Add to that his age and that he's a bit injury prone.

I think the Tribe just didn't want to blow whatever assets they have so early in the season and see what becomes available when we get closer to the deadline.

I agree with all of this. I'd just add that acquiring Youkilis would have also meant (1) dumping Lopez, and making Kotchman a backup/platoon first baseman who lacks the flexibility to do anything else, or (2) eating the remainder of Kotchman's contract (with Hannahan still giving them a left-handed 1B), which I doubt they're interested in doing. If they trade for a right-handed hitter, I'd be surprised if it's not an outfielder (who likely replaces Shelley Duncan). Of course, this team is a lot further away from being a championship contender than one right-handed bat.

With the amount of Youk's contract that Boston subsidized, it was a deal the White Sox couldn't pass on, but I don't think they're going to get a lot out of him. Several teams have been heavily scouting him over the past month, and this was the best anyone would offer for a guy with a career .875 OPS.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 pm

Tondo wrote:Really? We could not have offered Kluber and Lopez for Youkilis? Because that's exactly what the White Sox gave up for the Greek God of Walks....are you kidding me? That's highway robbery

This one will bite us in the arse....stupid non move and huge upgrade for next to nothing for a Divison foe....I mean, even if Youk doesn't return to his .800 to .900 OPS days he's still a huge upgrade over a Lopez...and I would have happily thrown Kluber their way to aquire him, maybe sweeten the pot with 1 of our many BP arms in the system

Can't believe we couldn't come up with a similar offer...it's not like we needed a middle of the order RH bat, right? Total bummer, stupid, stupid non move with next to no risk attached


Many thought the Astros got little when they traded Berkman (and cash) to the Yanks for a utility guy and a middle reliever. Berkman continued to struggle though in NY and that middle reliever the Astros got turned out to be very solid for them.

Don't sleep on Stewart. He could still turn out to be a solid pitcher. Honestly the Red Sox got more than I thought they would for Youk. Would have liked to have gotten him, but his value was way, way down. According to some reports, most teams were only willing to take Youk off the Sox hands for nothing. Guy shouldn't be playing 3B anymore and nees to play 1B/DH....going to be interesting to see how he holds up in Chicago with Konderko/Dunn taking up the 1B/DH spots.
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Re: Panic on south-side of Chicago???

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:12 pm

It's going to be interesting to see how the White Sox handle Chris Sale's workload the rest of the way. He's been nothing short of an ace, but has already thrown 30 more innings than he did last year (although a full season of relief vs. a half season of starting, isn't exactly "apples vs. apples"). He'll probably reach as many innings as he's thrown in any season by the end of July. Tonight the White Sox are up 16-0, and Sale has only allowed three hits through six innings... seems like an obvious opportunity to save some mileage on the arm to me.
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