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Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue May 01, 2012 8:46 pm

People keep forgetting that Kotchman was not brought in because he is a better hitter than LaPorta, he was brought in moreso for the defense. So, yeah, while if LaPorta was up there would be more offense with him in there, the biggest difference is the defense. LaPorta is a below average defensive 1B, if that. From what I have heard he may only be an occassional option at 1B and is starting to be looked at - and rightfully so - as a regular left fielder.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue May 01, 2012 10:19 pm

Tonight's game against the White Sox would shame a little league team.

Bob
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Wed May 02, 2012 7:31 am

TonyIPI wrote:People keep forgetting that Kotchman was not brought in because he is a better hitter than LaPorta, he was brought in moreso for the defense. So, yeah, while if LaPorta was up there would be more offense with him in there, the biggest difference is the defense. LaPorta is a below average defensive 1B, if that. From what I have heard he may only be an occassional option at 1B and is starting to be looked at - and rightfully so - as a regular left fielder.


That may be true but .494 OPS should not be tolerated in any position especially a position considered to be an offensive position. And to be honest, he's not a great fielder (slightly above average) but he looks better because of what Cleveland fans have seen in recent years. In reality he's a 1B defensive equivalent of Asdrubal (who gets criticized because of his range on these boards all the time). Unfortunately there just is very little available right now.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Wed May 02, 2012 7:46 am

Hermie13 wrote:Very well could be right on us getting the 2010 version vs 2011 version of Kotchman...

But his walk rate is actually better than it was in 2011 and K-rate is nearly identical. Only real difference to this point has been a near 200 pt drop in BABIP. While Kotchman is slow so you'd expect a lower BABIP, I just don't think you'll see a .143 BABIP continue for the rest of the year. Hell, even in 2010 when he was terrible in Seattle he managed a .229 BABIP. Some of these balls are going to go for hits after a while. May only end up hitting like .240-.250 but if the walk rate continues, could end up with a .340-.350 OBP.

Only making $3M though so definitely a spot that Tribe should (and likely is) look to upgrade this summer if they are in the race. Agree nothing on the market now (I'd take Kotchman 8 days a week over Blake right now even).


Right now, Casey will be lucky to get his OBP up to the .280 he had in 2010 (which I think is the more true CK than last year's .422 OBP version). Even if he does get it north of .300 he's still an offensive disaster. Stats can lie sometimes and you just have to see a guy to really evaluate his contributions and I don't like what I see in him (never really have).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed May 02, 2012 8:42 am

Bearcatbob wrote:Tonight's game against the White Sox would shame a little league team.

Bob


You know.. you look at the box score and see 2 errors and think, not a good night defensively for the Tribe.. When you watched this horror show unfold (after the rain delay/clouds of pyrotechnic gasses/mist and general malaise), there weren't 2 errors.. there were 5.. The defense was an abomination.. Terrible misplays.. It was Keystone Kops Defense.. What is it about the CWSox this year that brings out the worst in our Wahoos????
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 02, 2012 12:12 pm

daingean wrote:Right now, Casey will be lucky to get his OBP up to the .280 he had in 2010 (which I think is the more true CK than last year's .422 OBP version). Even if he does get it north of .300 he's still an offensive disaster. Stats can lie sometimes and you just have to see a guy to really evaluate his contributions and I don't like what I see in him (never really have).


I've never liked Kotchman at the plate either, but watching him this year he should not be hitting this bad. Granted their have been times when he has looked like a pitcher swinging the bat up there, but he's made some solid contact that's resulted in outs. Some of those are going to fall in like they did last year for him.

I fully expect him to get back to where he was in Atlanta prior to being dealt. You can live with a .350 OBP 1B if he's playing above average defense. Not ideal obviously, but not a disaster.


Completely disagree on your Cabrera defense comp. Kotchman is no gold glover at 1B, but he is above average. The same can not be said of Cabrera (at least not accurately said about him). I tend to sit right in line with 1B at the Prog....it's scary how much better Kotchman is than anything we've had in a long time there. Sure he could have better range, but like what I've seen over there. Guess when you have LaPorta there though not hard to impress...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Wed May 02, 2012 12:25 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Completely disagree on your Cabrera defense comp. Kotchman is no gold glover at 1B, but he is above average. The same can not be said of Cabrera (at least not accurately said about him). I tend to sit right in line with 1B at the Prog....it's scary how much better Kotchman is than anything we've had in a long time there. Sure he could have better range, but like what I've seen over there. Guess when you have LaPorta there though not hard to impress...


The Cabrerra comparison is that Asdrubal has a good glove and makes plays that you remember but his range is his biggest weakness. I'd say the same is the case with CK. I live here in Atlanta and the Braves have had Tex, LaRoche, and Freeman here and all are better all around than CK. So I do understand frame of comparison to what you have seen recently (and it's been a while since Cleveland had a quality 1B). I don't get to see all the Indians games (like I do the Braves) but did watch the whole first week of the season (thanks DirectTV for the MLB package for 1 week). I've contemplated getting the sports package this year (so I'd get STO) but in reality with my step-son playing HS ball and (in a few weeks) Travel Ball, I'd be wasting my money because he'll be playing almost every day.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 02, 2012 12:38 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:Completely disagree on your Cabrera defense comp. Kotchman is no gold glover at 1B, but he is above average. The same can not be said of Cabrera (at least not accurately said about him). I tend to sit right in line with 1B at the Prog....it's scary how much better Kotchman is than anything we've had in a long time there. Sure he could have better range, but like what I've seen over there. Guess when you have LaPorta there though not hard to impress...


The Cabrerra comparison is that Asdrubal has a good glove and makes plays that you remember but his range is his biggest weakness. I'd say the same is the case with CK. I live here in Atlanta and the Braves have had Tex, LaRoche, and Freeman here and all are better all around than CK. So I do understand frame of comparison to what you have seen recently (and it's been a while since Cleveland had a quality 1B). I don't get to see all the Indians games (like I do the Braves) but did watch the whole first week of the season (thanks DirectTV for the MLB package for 1 week). I've contemplated getting the sports package this year (so I'd get STO) but in reality with my step-son playing HS ball and (in a few weeks) Travel Ball, I'd be wasting my money because he'll be playing almost every day.


See, this is where I disagree. We'll have to agree to disagree on Kotchman, though I'll concede to you I suppose since you have seen him more.

No disagreement though that he needs to get better offensively...think that much is clear.


Going to be interesting I think to see how Damon is used here and who loses playing time and how much. Think Duncan, Kotchman, and Hafner are in danger.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed May 02, 2012 10:27 pm

Damon out with "general cramping"...

hmm.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ScrappyWahoo » Wed May 02, 2012 10:44 pm

This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.

Hafner with a 2 run HR that just kept carrying in the 8th, Tribe up 6-3
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ironmike » Thu May 03, 2012 7:46 am

Tomlin does his job, keeps his team in the game.

Interesting stat delivered by Rick Manning last nite, the team that leads the league in walks has made the playoffs the last 11 out of 12 seasons.

Find it interesting we sign a 38 year old veteran and insert him at the lead off spot. On the surface our offense remains inconsistent because we lack two important ingredients - 1) an impact lead off hitter and, 2) a RH five tool player in the outfield.

When we fix those two problems this team will contend and have a real chance to win. We aren't going to be able to trade for the next Kenny Lofton or Albert Belle, so the pressure is really on the organization. We shall see how good they really are.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 03, 2012 8:58 am

The failure of Brantley to develop into a decent leadoff hitter has been a problem. Damon is a Band Aid. Maybe he can provide a spark like Kenny Lofton did a few years ago at the end of his career.

Yeah, we lead the A.L. in walks, we're 3rd on on-base percentage, but 9th of 14 in runs scored. What does that say? Well, we're batting .115 with the bases loaded for one thing. Like I said earlier, they've been pitching around Hafner and Santana to get to guys like Kotchman and Brantley. Lots of walks, slow guys on the bases, no clutch hitting, not many runs.

Kotchman is 0-for-14 with RISP. I don't think Santana is going to see another strike the rest of this series.

Thank God for Hannahan or we might be 12th in scoring.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 03, 2012 10:26 am

The scoring has been sporadic.. in the Royals series in KC, the Indians busted out for some big innings.. Now it looks like being able to squeeze out a run is a difficult task.. The addition of Johnny Damon may increase the number of 'ducks on the pond', however, the run producers have to come through..

...Kotchman is 0-for-14 with RISP. I don't think Santana is going to see another strike the rest of this series...

Regarding your note about Casey Kotchman, he's not just bad at hitting w/ RISP.. he's bad at everything. There are 175 ML'ers who have had 70 at bats.. he is DEAD LAST in offensive production (lowest BA, third lowest SLG, fifth lowest OBP). He flat out blows.. If you watched last night's game later in the game with him at bat, Kotchman had two strikes on him & asked the ump for time..he didn't hear or know that he had been granted time and jumped back into the box.. only to realize he had been granted time.. so he yanked on his batting gloves and hurriedly jumped back into the batters box and was quick pitched.. He checked his swing and went too far (home plate umpire call) and ended a miserable at bat with strike out.. Total BUSH LEAGUE / THROWN AWAY AT BAT.. not the actions of a veteran or professional major league player. Decision time is getting closer & closer.. At this point, I'd be willing to DFA him and send him to Lake County.. Who in their right mind is gonna pick him up?..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 03, 2012 10:27 am

ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 03, 2012 12:11 pm

ironmike wrote:Tomlin does his job, keeps his team in the game.

Interesting stat delivered by Rick Manning last nite, the team that leads the league in walks has made the playoffs the last 11 out of 12 seasons.

Find it interesting we sign a 38 year old veteran and insert him at the lead off spot. On the surface our offense remains inconsistent because we lack two important ingredients - 1) an impact lead off hitter and, 2) a RH five tool player in the outfield.

When we fix those two problems this team will contend and have a real chance to win. We aren't going to be able to trade for the next Kenny Lofton or Albert Belle, so the pressure is really on the organization. We shall see how good they really are.


Not sure why you need a five tool guy to help the offense (fielding and throwing are 2 of those 5 tools)....Tribe does a bat whether someone steps up or they go out and get someone we'll see. Doesn't need to be RH though IMO. I'd take a big LH bat.

That stat on walks and making the playoffs shouldn't be too surprising. More walks you draw the more pitches you force the starters to throw, get to the bullpen earlier and that is typically a good thing.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 03, 2012 12:23 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Regarding your note about Casey Kotchman, he's not just bad at hitting w/ RISP.. he's bad at everything. There are 175 ML'ers who have had 70 at bats.. he is DEAD LAST in offensive production (lowest BA, third lowest SLG, fifth lowest OBP). He flat out blows.. If you watched last night's game later in the game with him at bat, Kotchman had two strikes on him & asked the ump for time..he didn't hear or know that he had been granted time and jumped back into the box.. only to realize he had been granted time.. so he yanked on his batting gloves and hurriedly jumped back into the batters box and was quick pitched.. He checked his swing and went too far (home plate umpire call) and ended a miserable at bat with strike out.. Total BUSH LEAGUE / THROWN AWAY AT BAT.. not the actions of a veteran or professional major league player. Decision time is getting closer & closer.. At this point, I'd be willing to DFA him and send him to Lake County.. Who in their right mind is gonna pick him up?..


While that at-bat was bad, he did have some good ones yesterday, including drawing the walk in the 8th inning setting up Hannahan for the big 2 out hit. If Kotchman doesn't walk/get on base, we don't score there. Also made two plays that LaPorta (and probably even Santana) desn't make at 1B defensively.

If you DFA him you can't send him to LC, he can become a free agent. Some team would take him, Brewers are looking for a 1B to replace Gamel and many teams would take Kotchman at the league min with the Tribe picking up the tab. Decision time on Kotchman is still a month away at least.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Thu May 03, 2012 12:59 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
ironmike wrote:Tomlin does his job, keeps his team in the game.

Interesting stat delivered by Rick Manning last nite, the team that leads the league in walks has made the playoffs the last 11 out of 12 seasons.

Find it interesting we sign a 38 year old veteran and insert him at the lead off spot. On the surface our offense remains inconsistent because we lack two important ingredients - 1) an impact lead off hitter and, 2) a RH five tool player in the outfield.

When we fix those two problems this team will contend and have a real chance to win. We aren't going to be able to trade for the next Kenny Lofton or Albert Belle, so the pressure is really on the organization. We shall see how good they really are.


Not sure why you need a five tool guy to help the offense (fielding and throwing are 2 of those 5 tools)....Tribe does a bat whether someone steps up or they go out and get someone we'll see. Doesn't need to be RH though IMO. I'd take a big LH bat.

That stat on walks and making the playoffs shouldn't be too surprising. More walks you draw the more pitches you force the starters to throw, get to the bullpen earlier and that is typically a good thing.


Certainly in my dream world, I'd like a big RH bat that plays lights out CF. But the reality is, I just want guys that can make the team better. I do believe our lack of a RH hitting run producer leaves us susceptible to teams with good lefty (by good I mean either quantity or quality) bullpens. See KC added an extra lefty in the BP for us.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ScrappyWahoo » Thu May 03, 2012 1:00 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu May 03, 2012 1:12 pm

ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


Seriously?

Someone needs to chill!

We police ourselves round these parts for the most part.... a little going off tangent never hurt anyone.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Thu May 03, 2012 2:06 pm

Getting back to the game thread, Danks is going for the Sox tonight in the series decider. His ERA is abysmal and he only has two quality starts in five outings. He's given up 11 earned runs in his last two starts. The Tribe put six runs on the board last night and it could have been a lot more as they loaded the bases with one out twice and didn't score.

Let's get this guy early. He pitched into the 6th against us in the first series and gave up 4 runs and a lot of base runners (12 IIRC). We have to improve the hitting with RISP, though.

Gotta love Hafner hitting that home run off Thornton, a lefty who throws in the high 90's. If that doesn't prove his bat speed is back I don't know what does.

Hannahan is freaking amazing. Another two-out, two-run double against a tough lefty.

Choo was clearly rusty last night but he hit the ball pretty well to deep left in his last at-bat, also against a lefty. Good sign.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 03, 2012 4:35 pm

Lefty John Danks was hit pretty hard by the Indians in their first meeting this year.. The wind at US Cellular will be blowing mostly out toward left field and it will be hot hazy and humid at game time.. The ball is going to travel some..

PERFECT conditions for a Shelly Duncan POWER SHOW.. A lot of runs could be scored tonight..
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 03, 2012 5:53 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Getting back to the game thread, Danks is going for the Sox tonight in the series decider. His ERA is abysmal and he only has two quality starts in five outings. He's given up 11 earned runs in his last two starts. The Tribe put six runs on the board last night and it could have been a lot more as they loaded the bases with one out twice and didn't score.

Let's get this guy early. He pitched into the 6th against us in the first series and gave up 4 runs and a lot of base runners (12 IIRC). We have to improve the hitting with RISP, though.

Gotta love Hafner hitting that home run off Thornton, a lefty who throws in the high 90's. If that doesn't prove his bat speed is back I don't know what does.

Hannahan is freaking amazing. Another two-out, two-run double against a tough lefty.

Choo was clearly rusty last night but he hit the ball pretty well to deep left in his last at-bat, also against a lefty. Good sign.


Was a nice HR by Hafner off a 96mph fastball (at least that's what the TV gun said). Maybe I'm too pessimistic on Hafner but not ready to say he's back yet. He did this last year too. Thru his first 20 starts last year he had a .959 OPS and 4 HRs. This year in 20 starts 3 HRs and a .916 OPS. Hopefully he can maintain it though this time.

And good to see the HR come off a lefty (his 2nd this year actually), but he's still struggling overall against lefties hitting .174/.286/.478/.764 (3 of his 4 hits have been for extras). Has struggled against lefties for a while now. I hinted at this earlier but I think you may see Damon playing every single day when he's fully back in his groove and Duncan/Hafner platooning. We are seeing that lineup tonight...

Someone wrote an article on this site last year around this time (want to say it was Tony) about how Hafner is really the same hitter he had been the previosu years. Could really post the exact same article again as it's holding true. Hafner still will struggle overall against lefties and is probably bust utilized in a platoon. Hit .233/.638 (AVG/OPS) last year against lefties. 2010 hit .273/.706 off lefties. 2009 hit .210/.696 off lefties....and again, .174/.764 so far this year...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu May 03, 2012 6:18 pm

ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


And we're how old? Get a grip. It's not like they were talking about trees in a conversation about clouds.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 03, 2012 6:29 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


And we're how old? Get a grip. It's not like they were talking about trees in a conversation about clouds.


The best part of that was that the last person to make a post about LaPorta-Kotchman was Tony....wonder how that troll reporting went...considering Tony is likely the one that gets those reports.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think this is a fine place to talk about Kotchman's in-GAME hitting and fielding....or lack of hitting
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu May 03, 2012 6:47 pm

The lineup tonight is a bit.. of a head scratcher..

The limited data on the Indians facing John Danks.. shows that Casey Kotchman has hit him often and hit him hard (2 XBH of his 7 in 19 AB's).. So, this is a good time to see if Casey is being handled by specific pitchers, if Casey can handle pitchers he's handled in the past.. or if he just blows...

I can see Hannahan, Droobs and Kipnis in the lineup as all three of these guys are there for their defense on ground balls which should be plentiful with Masterson on the hill and/or they've been hitting the ball well, regardless of who the pitching is, especially Kipnis lately, hitting .421 (16/38) in his last ten games...

I don't get why Lou Marson isn't in the starting lineup tonight with Carlos DH'ing. It's nice to have a shiny new toy (Damon to DH), but, really?.. why tonight? Sure, the potential for Lou getting injured and losing the DH is there, but, not any more than at other times. The limited data says Marson should be able to hit some against Danks.

<shrugs>
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ScrappyWahoo » Thu May 03, 2012 7:59 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


And we're how old? Get a grip. It's not like they were talking about trees in a conversation about clouds.



Like i said im putting an end t it weather you like it or not, you dont matter.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu May 03, 2012 8:04 pm

ScrappyWahoo wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


And we're how old? Get a grip. It's not like they were talking about trees in a conversation about clouds.



Like i said im putting an end t it weather you like it or not, you dont matter.


You're not going to last long around these parts with that attitude.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu May 03, 2012 8:07 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
ScrappyWahoo wrote:This is an Indians game thread not Kotchman-Laporta folks. Take it elsewhere.
Censuring of what's discussed or not discussed isn't up to you..

Doesnt matter who its up too. Laporta-kotchman does not belong here and every post after WILL be reported as trolling

Im putting an end to it


And we're how old? Get a grip. It's not like they were talking about trees in a conversation about clouds.



Like i said im putting an end t it weather you like it or not, you dont matter.


You're not going to last long around these parts with that attitude.


+1. Sorry, but all of US will not allow YOU to control things around here. Bye, bye!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:09 pm

Wow. I've heard of the magic words that get someone run from the game but this is the 1st time I've seen it in under 20 posts.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:17 pm

Not sure if anyone else has seen this news yet but it appears Mo Rivera was hurt shagging flies in KC before tonight's game.
He was lifted onto a cart & taken from the field.
reports are he is on his way to the hospital for an MRI.

If he goes down for an extended period the Yanks will be in trouble.

FYI, it was Jason Nix that fit the ball to the warning track.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:38 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The lineup tonight is a bit.. of a head scratcher..

The limited data on the Indians facing John Danks.. shows that Casey Kotchman has hit him often and hit him hard (2 XBH of his 7 in 19 AB's).. So, this is a good time to see if Casey is being handled by specific pitchers, if Casey can handle pitchers he's handled in the past.. or if he just blows...

I can see Hannahan, Droobs and Kipnis in the lineup as all three of these guys are there for their defense on ground balls which should be plentiful with Masterson on the hill and/or they've been hitting the ball well, regardless of who the pitching is, especially Kipnis lately, hitting .421 (16/38) in his last ten games...

I don't get why Lou Marson isn't in the starting lineup tonight with Carlos DH'ing. It's nice to have a shiny new toy (Damon to DH), but, really?.. why tonight? Sure, the potential for Lou getting injured and losing the DH is there, but, not any more than at other times. The limited data says Marson should be able to hit some against Danks.

<shrugs>


I know Marson hit lefties pretty well last year (.297/.387/.407/.793), but Damon actually hit them just as well if not better (.277/.354/.458/.812).

Only head-scratcher here would be Kotchman over Marson. As you pointed out though, Kotchman has done ok against Danks (though so has Marson). Think what you're seeing too is the Tribe views Marson as a backup catcher, not a platoon option. Would like to see him get a few more ABs against the lefties though myself (especially if Kotchman keeps struggling).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu May 03, 2012 9:01 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Not sure if anyone else has seen this news yet but it appears Mo Rivera was hurt shagging flies in KC before tonight's game.
He was lifted onto a cart & taken from the field.
reports are he is on his way to the hospital for an MRI.

If he goes down for an extended period the Yanks will be in trouble.

FYI, it was Jason Nix that fit the ball to the warning track.


As much as I hate the Yankees, Rivera is actually a guy I root for. I've had the feeling he was going to retire following the season anyway.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 04, 2012 8:26 am

Kotchman with two hits and an RBI. An offensive explosion. There you go. Manny knew what he was doing all along.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 04, 2012 8:28 am

Regarding Mariano Rivera... it's as bad as it gets... Torn Anterior Cruciate Ligament and torn meniscus.. He will be sidelined a minimum of 6 months..perhaps, the rest of his life.. Sad way for the best closer in the history of baseball to leave the game, carted off on the meat wagon...

Kotchman did get a couple of hits last night.. nothing earth shattering, mostly 17 hoppers through the infield. He seems to be a bit more aggressive at the plate against lefties..

Santana hit the ball hard, but had nothing to show for his efforts.. Great strikem out throwem out DP to end a threat.

Jason Kipnis just hammered two balls into the night.. one for a three bagger, one for a three run homer that sealed the victory in spite of Dan Wheeler's arsonist act in the ninth..

Chris Perez and Alex Rios barking at each other to end the game probably isn't going to end there... It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see this 'feud' resurface during the four game series set to start Monday.. Do you think the Indians will take advantage of the provision in the new CBA to call up Zach McAllister, roster # 26, to make a start Monday? (It would be with his normal four days rest after pitching against Gwinnette day before yesterday)

Onto the Rangers.. who are JUST KILLING the ball (1st in OPS, 1st in hits, 1st in BA, 1st or 2nd in just about every other offensive stat in the AL save for doubles).. JeanMar Gomez, will face off against Colby Lewis in the opener. The battle of the Derek's (Holland versus Lowe) for the Saturday night game and finishing with Yu Darvish versus Ubaldo Jimenez for the Sunday matinee. It should be warm, breezy, and humid all weekend.. See you at the park on Sunday...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri May 04, 2012 8:30 am

Prosecutor wrote:Kotchman with two hits and an RBI. An offensive explosion. There you go. Manny knew what he was doing all along.


YEAAAHHH !!. Kotchman's BA zooooooooooooooooooomed all the way up to a buck sixty two (.162) !!!
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 04, 2012 12:09 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:sealed the victory in spite of Dan Wheeler's arsonist act in the ninth...


Wheeler was just helping out Chris Perez fantasy owners everywhere by making it a save situation :razz
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 04, 2012 12:56 pm

Yesterday was a good example of why I believe Kotchman will be seeing a bump in his numbers here simply by luck evening out.

In 2007 (his best offensive year) he hit .198 on groundballs.
In 2010 (his worst year) he hit .150 on groundballs.
Last year (what some call his "career year") he hit .250 on groundballs.
He's a career .191 hitter on groundballs.
I looked earlier this week and Kotchman was batting .029 on groundballs this year....he was 1 for 34. 1 for 34!!

I know Kotchman is very slow and he isn't exactly hitting the ball with Santana-like authority, but hitting .029 on groundballs just can not happen for a full season. At some point those balls will find holes. We saw it last night, balls will find holes. Even now he's still only hitting .079 on grounders at 3 for 38.

If 4 extra grounders had found holes to this point he'd still only be hitting .184 on grounders (under career average), but his overall average would be .216...still terrible but could add over 50 pts to his average (OBP would jump nearly 50 too to .301) simply by luck evening out. His OPS would be over 140 pts higher as a reasult too (again, .652 is still terrible, not saying otherwise).

Yes yes, I know I'm basically talking about seeing-eye-singles here (cue Little Big League soundbite) and reaching here for ways to turn Kotchman around, but his BABIP is still scary low (about 60 pts lower than it was even in 2010, and over 100 pts lower than his career mark). With his walk-rate he should be hitting better than he has. Hopefully yesterday will help give him some confidence at the plate and he can get things going. By all rights could be hitting closer to .250 now (would put his OBP up around .340). Hits just need to fall for him.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Fri May 04, 2012 5:08 pm

The thing is, Hermie, there's no chance of most of those ground balls finding holes because they simply aren't hit hard enough. Most of them are pounded straight down and are high hoppers with no chance of getting through even the Tigers infield. The others are hit so slowly that even Jhonny Peralta could flag them down. I'm not seeing any "sharp" ground balls right at people.

For his luck to improve he's going to have to start making better contact.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Hermie13 » Fri May 04, 2012 5:51 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The thing is, Hermie, there's no chance of most of those ground balls finding holes because they simply aren't hit hard enough. Most of them are pounded straight down and are high hoppers with no chance of getting through even the Tigers infield. The others are hit so slowly that even Jhonny Peralta could flag them down. I'm not seeing any "sharp" ground balls right at people.

For his luck to improve he's going to have to start making better contact.


No chance for "most" of them yes, but even in his absolute worst (aka, 2010) he hit almost about 80 pts higher on grounders than he is now. He really isn't hitting any different than he has in the past. I've also seen plenty of sharp grounders right at people (though agree, most aren't). I have seen almost no "high choppers" from Kotchman either. Seen a lot hit right at infielders though (saw 6 of them on opening day alone, in person in the cold, ugh), and while most aren't hit well, again law of averages says some are going to get by. The hit yesterday was not that well hit, simply well placed.

daingean has probably seen Kotchman more than any of us, and not to really put words in his mouth in a way, but I think he'd agree that Kotchman has never been one to really hit the ball hard all over the field. Again, to me he doesn't really look any different than he always has, just getting very unlucky. His K/BB rate is still pretty solid (believe he's 10/8 right now).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby daingean » Fri May 04, 2012 10:42 pm

Hermie13 wrote:daingean has probably seen Kotchman more than any of us, and not to really put words in his mouth in a way, but I think he'd agree that Kotchman has never been one to really hit the ball hard all over the field. Again, to me he doesn't really look any different than he always has, just getting very unlucky. His K/BB rate is still pretty solid (believe he's 10/8 right now).


He'll get his numbers up. He's not that bad of a hitter (I wouldn't call him good either). He does have to square up the ball a whole lot better for balls to get through the infield. Part of what I saw this year (I have only seen a limited number of games due to watching HS baseball) but while he does get a bit of walks he doesn't get himself into good hitters counts. Most of the times he gets walks by fouling off pitches until there is a walk but when the ball is put in play they are defensive swings. As I recall from his days in Atlanta, it was similar to that but in the NL a guy will see more fastballs.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sat May 05, 2012 7:32 am

Looking at Kotchman's splits, he has had two strikes on him in 51 of 76 at-bats. It seems to me like he almost always falls behind in the count then swings defensively at marginal pitches resulting in mostly weak ground balls.

The good thing is that the Tribe is winning and other players are starting to hit, which takes pressure off Kotchman. Hopefully he'll relax and start making better contact.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby ScrappyWahoo » Sat May 05, 2012 9:24 pm

Keep the thread on topic folks last warning.
Tribe make a late comback in the bottom of the 8th tie it at 2.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat May 05, 2012 11:10 pm

ScrappyWahoo wrote:Keep the thread on topic folks last warning.
Tribe make a late comback in the bottom of the 8th tie it at 2.


You might as well drop this as it's going nowhere & all it does is make you look bad Scappy.
Let the record show that the Owner of this site is participating in some of these oft-thread topics.
Heck he still owes me a drink (or maybe we are even now after another roster bet).
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun May 06, 2012 6:09 am

Hey Scrap, you joined this forum 6 days ago and have a total of 12 posts. So within three days you decided to appoint yourself the enforcer on this board and police folks who have been posting regularly for several years?

:lol
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun May 06, 2012 8:36 am

Musings on last night's game....

-The battle of the Dereks may officially be called a draw, however, Holland clearly out pitched Lowe, but he savvy Lowe kept the team in the game with a gutsy performance.. fascinating game from that perspective..

-Santana, Duncan and Hafner appear to be stepping into the bucket a bit too much.. The "go to the opposite field" approach has evaporated.. How about a little "coach up" on this? Santana, in his zeal to get the runner home from third with one out in the ninth inning stepped almost a half foot toward first base while swinging over the Adams middle of the plate thigh high 94 mph fastball. The "good" hitting Santana would have put that one into orbit..

-Asdrubal not making the transfer in extra innings proved deadly to the Indians chances.. ouch. Beltre really belted that one.

-Nick Hagadone looked really good.. with his height and downward tilt on everything he throws, that fastball / slider combination is devastating to left handed batters.. Right handed batters don't seem to have much luck, either.

-Rubber game of the series in a matinee this afternoon. Hopefully, more than 21K fans come to the ball park to see the battle of the You's...
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sun May 06, 2012 3:04 pm

Is it just me, or are Damon and Kipnis separated at birth? Both physically and baseball-wise.

I really like the idea of having a vet who has been there - done that, on this team with so many young players.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun May 06, 2012 4:00 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:Is it just me, or are Damon and Kipnis separated at birth? Both physically and baseball-wise.

I really like the idea of having a vet who has been there - done that, on this team with so many young players.


I love Damon and Kipnis as 1/2 in the lineup.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Sun May 06, 2012 4:06 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
GhostofTedCox wrote:Is it just me, or are Damon and Kipnis separated at birth? Both physically and baseball-wise.

I really like the idea of having a vet who has been there - done that, on this team with so many young players.


I love Damon and Kipnis as 1/2 in the lineup.



I like it too - would be ok with it being 1. Kip 2. Damon even. One thing I dont like - I know Hafner is hitting well, but seems to me he would be more valuable as the 3 or 5 - if Santana heats up I hope they dont waste anytime plugging him back into the clean-up spot.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Sun May 06, 2012 4:09 pm

So anyway. Now that everybody has trashed Ubaldo, he comes up big and goes 7 shutout innings against the Rangers.
If he is finally starting to figure it out,,,well, I don't want to start thinking what that could mean.

Big win and big series for the Indians. Let's take 2 tomorrow. There's nothing like a nice winning streak to build interest and attendance too.
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Re: Official 2012 Cleveland Indians game thread

Postby criznit2009 » Sun May 06, 2012 4:12 pm

if the tribe takes the DH tomorrow, it would be hard for even the most cynical fan to deny that cleveland does have a competitive team that actually has a real chance to make the play-offs. Just imagine how good this team would be with a top-tier, or even a "better then avg." 1B....
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