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Indians sign Kotchman

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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:55 am

This could be the Starting Lineup the Indians will run out against RHSP's:

CF Grady Sizemore LH .260/.310/.490; 20 HR/54 2B/100 runs/60 RBI's
1B Casey Kotchman LH .270/.365/.420; 12 HR/48 2B/55 runs/50 RBI's
RF Shin-soo Choo LH .305/.395/.490; 22 HR/42 2B/85 runs/85 RBI's
C Carlos Santana S .280/.375/.485; 34 HR/35 2B/85 runs/100 RBI's
DH Travis Hafner LH .280/.405/.515; 16 HR/25 2B/55 runs/70 RBI's
SS Asdrubal Cabrera S .280/.345/.460; 18 HR/30 2B/80 runs/85 RBI's
2B Jason Kipnis LH .275/.395/.510; 20 HR/45 2B/70 runs/70 RBI's
3B Lonnie Chisenhall LH .260/.310/.420; 15 HR/24 2B/60 runs /50 RBI's
LF Michael Brantley LH .275/.355/..410; 20 HR/40 2B/80 runs/40 RBI's

Note 1: When facing a LHSP, the Indians will definitely substitute in Jason Donald and Lou Marson with Sizemore and one of Hafner/Kipnis/Chisenhall being on the bench. Shelly Duncan/Matt LaPorta/Russ Canzler/Aaron Cunningham could also replace Michael Brantley. The bench would be constituted as follows:

Bench

2B/SS/3B/OF Jason Donald RH .310/.360/.405; 8 HR/15 2B/35 runs/20 RBI's
1B/LF/DH Shelly Duncan RH .245/.315/.430; 10 HR/15 2B/30 runs/30 RBI's
3B/1B/ Jack Hannahan LH .245/.330/.390; 10 HR/20 2B/30 runs/30 RBI's
C Lou Marson RH .240/.315/.325 5 HR/15 2B/25 runs/20 RBI's

Note 2: Russ Canzler, Aaron Cunningham, and Matt LaPorta will wage a pitched battle for the 12th & 13th spot, currently occupied by Shelly Duncan and Jack Hannahan, on the Indians roster of position players going north to open the season. Neither one of these two guys could be/should be considered "safely" on the team...

The projected performance/results show there is only one regular that may hit above .300 and only Carlos Santana hitting for more than 30 home runs (essentially a break out season).. These would not be considered outlandish or fantastic totals. Only Grady remaining healthy would be considered a small stretch. Everyone else is more than capable of achieving this level of success.
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby daingean » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:08 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
daingean wrote:I don't think runs and RBI's are terrible stats.......they are what offense is all about.....now single year stats yes but look at his runs and RBI's.....this shows you something about him....he's neither a run scorer or run producer.....

I still maintain that the majority of my opinion of Kotchman offensively is what I saw every day when he played in Atlanta. Which = disappointment....


Curiosity here...

Had Kotchman not been the main piece in the Teix deal...and had the Braves not giving up a TON to get Teixeira a year early, would your opinion of how he played in Atlanta been different?

Kotchman is far from an ideal 1B, but he played well early in 2009 for Atlanta IMO (not great but solid) if you take out the above context.


I actually thought he was kind of a throw-in in the Tex deal as Stephen Marek was the guy the Braves were most excited about. Actually, I was far more excited that they got Adam LaRoche for Kotchman (and LaRoche did produce runs - there was no comparison between the 2). Kotchman gets good stats but can't get things accomplished with them....Everyone has abberation season like Colavito in '60 where he only accumulated 87 RBI's with 35 home runs but when there is a career trend like Kotchman's there is something inside his game which doesn't = run production (wether it's bad luck or bad baserunning....he just doesn't get it done).
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:02 pm

Brook Jacoby in '87: 162 Hits & 32HR, yielding only 73 Runs & 69 RBI's. Jake's best year, really impressive statistically. Not very productive though.
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby JP_Frost » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:48 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Brook Jacoby in '87: 162 Hits & 32HR, yielding only 73 Runs & 69 RBI's. Jake's best year, really impressive statistically. Not very productive though.


Very productive season individually. It's not his fault the rest of the team sucked.
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby ClevelandBlues » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:20 pm

Personally, I like the idea of Choo batting leadoff. High obp, good baserunner and can steal bases. If Kotchman and Brantley were batting eighth and ninth, then Choo would still have high obp guys hitting before him in the lineup. There aren't many teams out there that get 20 homers and 35 doubles from their one and two hitters.

1. Choo
2. Cabrera
3. Sizemore
4. Santana
5. Hafner
6. Kipnis
7. Hannahan or Chisenhall
8. Kotchman
9. Brantley
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby daingean » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:49 pm

Rocky55 wrote:Brook Jacoby in '87: 162 Hits & 32HR, yielding only 73 Runs & 69 RBI's. Jake's best year, really impressive statistically. Not very productive though.


The difference (like the difference with Colavito) is that there were more (runs & rbis seasons) on both sides of Jacoby's '87 season (80 & 87 RBI's in '85 & '86......83 & 77 runs in '86 & '90)....my point is that throughout Kotchman's career he's had very low Runs & RBI's.....those should tell you what kind of offensive player he is....there is something wrong with a guy that has a good OBP but low runs/rbi totals....And again, I'm basing most of my observations from his years in Atlanta (I know a poor offensive stadium).
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby Chiefroy » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:44 pm

1. Brantley
2. Cabrera
3. Sizemore
4. Santana
5. Choo
6. Hafner
7. Kotchman
8. Kipnis
9. Hannahan
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:50 pm

Chiefroy wrote:1. Brantley
2. Cabrera
3. Sizemore
4. Santana
5. Choo
6. Hafner
7. Kotchman
8. Kipnis
9. Hannahan

I think you have a pretty good list against RHP, chief. I anticipate a different look against LHP with 3-4 lineup changes. It is heavily dependent upon the return of Sizemore to form of earlier years against RHP which we all hope for. He will be platooned against LHP frequently IMO, as will Hafner. :good:
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby danh8 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:19 am

Hermie13 wrote:I may be in the minority here....but am I the only one that would like to see Kotchman hitting in the 2-hole (at least against righties)?


No, you don't stand alone here. I responded in this thread early on, and suggested using him in the 2 hole in the lineup. He's a natural fit there. But, I differ with you on having Sizemore leading off. I'm actually thinking of having Grady in the 7 hole ...but .... my lineup would look like this ..

vs. RHP

1. Brantley lf
2. Kotchman 1b
3. Cabrera ss
4. Santana c
5. Choo rf
6. Hafner dh
7. Sizemore cf
8. Kipnis 2b
9. Chisenhall or if he's in AAA, split between Donald/Hanahan

vs. LHP

1. Brantley cf
2. Donald lf
3. Cabrera ss
4. Santana 1b
5. Choo rf
6. Duncan dh
7. Kipnis 2b
8. Hanahan 3b (hits lefties well)
9 Marson c
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Re: Indians sign Kotchman

Postby criznit2009 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:21 am

danh8 wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:I may be in the minority here....but am I the only one that would like to see Kotchman hitting in the 2-hole (at least against righties)?


No, you don't stand alone here. I responded in this thread early on, and suggested using him in the 2 hole in the lineup. He's a natural fit there. But, I differ with you on having Sizemore leading off. I'm actually thinking of having Grady in the 7 hole ...but .... my lineup would look like this ..

vs. RHP

1. Brantley lf
2. Kotchman 1b
3. Cabrera ss
4. Santana c
5. Choo rf
6. Hafner dh
7. Sizemore cf
8. Kipnis 2b
9. Chisenhall or if he's in AAA, split between Donald/Hanahan

vs. LHP

1. Brantley cf
2. Donald lf
3. Cabrera ss
4. Santana 1b
5. Choo rf
6. Duncan dh
7. Kipnis 2b
8. Hanahan 3b (hits lefties well)
9 Marson c


Hmm, you illustrate the mystery that surrounds several players pretty well here. I think ultimately the real question is - Who is your lead-off hitter? If Brantley improves (better OBP, more steals/hits/better hits) then he is your guy. Choo might be interesting option here if Brantley can't take the next step. Really though if it is not Brantley, I think Kipnis would be the next option here, assuming he is playing well coming out of ST. Anyway -

1. Brantley - can he get on base more and run more? Two important crucial ingredients for a successfull lead-off hitter obviously. Like you I pencil him in at lead-off - he has the ability he just has to be able to finish the deal. Does Grady have any chance? I wil wait till ST to make a final assessment but I think NO. Other possible options - Choo,Kip, Acab, Donald. By default its Brantley.
2. Disagree with Kotchman here - I like him later clumped with some other trucks - so if not Acab then Kipnis/LHP guy but Acab I think.
3. Choo or Hafner. Choo is definitely preferred here. If he is hitting well, with his other tools he clearly has more of a chance to manufacture runs then our other options. If issues pop-up/persist, other options include Acab, Sizemore (ha) Santana (HA), Kip (HA!) - In a good way.. Sizemore's legs will be as much of a factor as his bat is in regards to his spot in the line-up IMO. What kind of wheels does he have now? A ton, some or none.
4. Santana. If not Santana then who? Really? Just as Lindor is undoubtly our #1 prospect Santana is our clean-up hitter to start the year.
5. Hafner or Choo. Duncan could see stints here with a hot bat against LHP.
6. Duncan/Sizemore/Kotchman - this spot goes to the most consistent hitter in my opinion - Duncan could work well here. Kotchman would work well too if the 5 guys in front of him are hitting.
7. Sizemore - no wheels then hit for power. Get those slugs Hafner and Kotchman off the bases. Kipnis maybe. Donald or hot-hitting-Hanny could play some days here if Sizemore is struggling/injured/resting.
8. Kipnis/Marson
9. Chiz/Hanny
10. Yes 10. Donald - there will be numerous opportunities to squirt him into the line-up. Against LHP mainly but a well playing Donald doesnt do much bench warming. Could see time in the lead-off spot if Brantley fails. Funny - a guy plays a ton of defensive positions will also end up hitting up and down a line up over the course of next season...


Really a ton of possibilites and comes down to a couple key things. Who can bat lead-off (looks like the "sssafe money" is on Brantley), can Kipnis excel at the plate in his 1st full season (I like his chance :s_biggrin ) and can Choo bounce back. Forget about Hafner/Sizemore - I mean between the 2 of them I except a solid season. Anything more and there is a real (how real ??) possibilty than one if not both of these guys could have fine years is pure gravy.
Will Kotchmans bat regress - if it does than he gets flushed down the order. I am not wasting time with a bumbling Kotchman if for some reason that happens. Really spots go to hot bats this year as there are no definites other than Santana at 4 and Acab at 2 or 3. Wait. Hell Acab could end up leading off if things get real good/bad.

Final tally (still here?)

1.Brantley - Kip or ? if he sucks.
2. Acab - safe money says Acab. BUT I hope Kipnis earns this spot. Donald on some days.
3. Choo. Acab if Kip is 2nd.
4. Santana
5. Hafner. Choo if Kip is 2nd. Duncan/RH some days
6. Kotchman/Sizemore/Duncan Hafner if Kip is 2nd.
7. Sizemore/Kotchman
8. Kip/ Kotchman if Kip is 2nd. Hanny/Marson/Chiz
9. Hanny/Chiz/Marson/Brantley, And Donald here. And there.
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