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Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:34 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
toledobuck wrote:I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/ ... e#list=cle


Neal being highly projected shouldn't be a surprise.. the kid has excellent bat speed, and generates power that could rival Jesus Aguilar or Nick Weglarz (when/if ever healthy) and, other than is "close/tight" situations, a patient and professional approach at the plate.. He has earned his promotions while with the SF Giants and is a much more advanced slugger than either Weglarz or Aguilar. In short, he could end up wearing Chief Wahoo on his sleeve at the corner of Ontario and Carnegie for a LONG TIME...

BA said, prior to the start of the 2011 season:
"Neal is more athletic than most 6-foot-2, 225-pounders. His combination of speed, power, arm strength and surprising ability to cover ground in either outfield corner draws comparisons to Jermaine Dye. ... He has the bat speed to handle quality fastballs, but gets a little overeager in RBI situations. ... Coaches love his hustle. ... There's a good chance he'll be introduced to the big leagues at some point this year with a chance to establish himself as an everyday player in 2012."


I've also seen comps to Bobby Bonilla as well.. He made it inside my top ten Indians prospects.. He is a serious prospect.. that's currently flying under the radar.. and, he's right handed...


Gonna disagree on this. I like Neal, and I think it was unfortunate he was limited to 10 games the rest of the season after being acquired. But there is no way he has power anywhere close to Dye/Bonilla or even Aguilar/Weglarz. Have seen him play twice and from talking to people internally with the Indians and externally with other teams I just don't get the feel that people think he is a big power guy at all. I liken him a lot more to a Ben Francisco type than Weglarz/Aguilar/Bonilla/Dye etc.


Hmmm?... odd that you would mention Ben Francisco... I've stated that the one player the Indians should have NOT traded in the Cliff Lee deal was Ben Francisco ( I wanted Crowe to go, then).. Francisco is a pull happy power player that hits in the clutch and plays average corner OF defense.. I'm still not happy about his inclusion..

Regarding Thomas Neal: The wrist surgery and the shoulder surgery for Neal are now well in his wake.. Thomas Neal is a slugger.. a five tool player that was, at one time comparable to Brandon Belt in the SF system.. While he hasn't played much the last couple of seasons.. He has all the skills to be a top 10 prospect again, this time in the Indians system..
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby jellis » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:38 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
toledobuck wrote:I saw this ranking of Tribe prospects from Mayo. It appears he did this at the end of the season. However, he has not included any of the 2011 draft prospects in his top 10 Indians prospects ranking. Thought it was interesting nonetheless. I don't understand his eligibility rules as he has Kipnis #1 but has not included Chiz. The rest of the guys on the list are prospects though. He seemed pretty high on Neal.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/ ... e#list=cle


Neal being highly projected shouldn't be a surprise.. the kid has excellent bat speed, and generates power that could rival Jesus Aguilar or Nick Weglarz (when/if ever healthy) and, other than is "close/tight" situations, a patient and professional approach at the plate.. He has earned his promotions while with the SF Giants and is a much more advanced slugger than either Weglarz or Aguilar. In short, he could end up wearing Chief Wahoo on his sleeve at the corner of Ontario and Carnegie for a LONG TIME...

BA said, prior to the start of the 2011 season:
"Neal is more athletic than most 6-foot-2, 225-pounders. His combination of speed, power, arm strength and surprising ability to cover ground in either outfield corner draws comparisons to Jermaine Dye. ... He has the bat speed to handle quality fastballs, but gets a little overeager in RBI situations. ... Coaches love his hustle. ... There's a good chance he'll be introduced to the big leagues at some point this year with a chance to establish himself as an everyday player in 2012."


I've also seen comps to Bobby Bonilla as well.. He made it inside my top ten Indians prospects.. He is a serious prospect.. that's currently flying under the radar.. and, he's right handed...


Gonna disagree on this. I like Neal, and I think it was unfortunate he was limited to 10 games the rest of the season after being acquired. But there is no way he has power anywhere close to Dye/Bonilla or even Aguilar/Weglarz. Have seen him play twice and from talking to people internally with the Indians and externally with other teams I just don't get the feel that people think he is a big power guy at all. I liken him a lot more to a Ben Francisco type than Weglarz/Aguilar/Bonilla/Dye etc.


Hmmm?... odd that you would mention Ben Francisco... I've stated that the one player the Indians should have NOT traded in the Cliff Lee deal was Ben Francisco ( I wanted Crowe to go, then).. Francisco is a pull happy power player that hits in the clutch and plays average corner OF defense.. I'm still not happy about his inclusion..

Regarding Thomas Neal: The wrist surgery and the shoulder surgery for Neal are now well in his wake.. Thomas Neal is a slugger.. a five tool player that was, at one time comparable to Brandon Belt in the SF system.. While he hasn't played much the last couple of seasons.. He has all the skills to be a top 10 prospect again, this time in the Indians system..


I have seen no one who thinks he has power, had one out standing year and most people and by most everyone but you I have seen lists him as a 4th OF. Solid hitter, but not much more than a solid OF with average power, and solid defense
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:14 pm

My post-season rankings...

1. Lindor
2. Barnes
3. Wolters
4. Howard
5. Araujo
6. Chen
7. Hagadone
8. Aguilar
9. Adams
10. Knapp
11. Sterling
12. Washington
13. Weglarz
14. Neal
15. Rondon
16. McAllister
17. Lowery
18. CC Lee
19. L. Rodriguez
20. Myles
21. Stowell
22. Bryson
23. Putnam
24. Perez
25. House
26. R. Rodriguez
27. Soto
28. Holt
29. Judy
30. Espino
Last edited by A.Zajac on Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:25 pm

jellis wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Regarding Thomas Neal: The wrist surgery and the shoulder surgery for Neal are now well in his wake.. Thomas Neal is a slugger.. a five tool player that was, at one time comparable to Brandon Belt in the SF system.. While he hasn't played much the last couple of seasons.. He has all the skills to be a top 10 prospect again, this time in the Indians system..


I have seen no one who thinks he has power, had one out standing year and most people and by most everyone but you I have seen lists him as a 4th OF. Solid hitter, but not much more than a solid OF with average power, and solid defense



Scouts have in the past loved Neal's power. Before 2009 BA said his power graded out 2nd behind only Angel Villalona in the Giants system (granted there wasn't much there).

However...when you go from 22 to 12 to 2....you gotta wonder if it's only the injuries or if he simply doesn't have it. Hitting 20 HRs in high-A ball is nice...but Beau Mills did that too, and so did Josh Rodriguez. Neal didn't show the power in AA and hasn't since. Jump may have exposed him.

I do think some are selling him a bit short. I could see 20 HR potential from him, but he does look more like a 4th outfielder than anything else. As a righty though, he could be valuable in that role as a platoon guy if he can hit lefties at the ML level. Even if he only settles in as a 10-15 HR guy with some steals....I'd take that for OC. Nice breakout/bounceback guy like Barnes and mcAllister were.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby martyinnewyork » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:42 pm

A.Zajac - Lowery is either #17 or #19 but, no matter how much you like him, CANNOT be BOTH!!! :s_biggrin
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:45 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:A.Zajac - Lowery is either #17 or #19 but, no matter how much you like him, CANNOT be BOTH!!! :s_biggrin


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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:34 pm

Really surprised CC Lee isnt getting more love. I havent finished my list but think he has to be much closer t our 10th best prospect than our 20th.... 2 years of solid/dominating performances, if he can replicate his minor league success in the majors he would be a top set-up man. Possibly a closer, but he looks like the tribes 8th inning (GET THAT K) man in the near future to me. With Hagadone already in the CLeveland, we could end up having a very menacing BP for a long time.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:05 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Really surprised CC Lee isnt getting more love. I havent finished my list but think he has to be much closer t our 10th best prospect than our 20th.... 2 years of solid/dominating performances, if he can replicate his minor league success in the majors he would be a top set-up man. Possibly a closer, but he looks like the tribes 8th inning (GET THAT K) man in the near future to me. With Hagadone already in the CLeveland, we could end up having a very menacing BP for a long time.


The biggest problem I have, in general, is ranking relievers high. I have nothing against CC Lee and think the kid has a ton of potential. But relievers, IMO, have the lowest value in terms of a prospect.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:38 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Really surprised CC Lee isnt getting more love. I havent finished my list but think he has to be much closer t our 10th best prospect than our 20th.... 2 years of solid/dominating performances, if he can replicate his minor league success in the majors he would be a top set-up man. Possibly a closer, but he looks like the tribes 8th inning (GET THAT K) man in the near future to me. With Hagadone already in the CLeveland, we could end up having a very menacing BP for a long time.


Agreed. Especially this year with such a diluted talent pool in the Top 10-20, Lee is gonna get high rankings in the national pubs. I haven't even started my ranking yet, but off the top of my head I think he is a definite lock for Top 15 and maybe even Top 10. He may only be a reliever, but there are few true starting pitching prospects in the system other than Araujo, McAllister, Barnes and Howard and all of them have varying potential. If Hagadone is up there as a reliever, Lee is just as good and should be right with him IMO. Aside from Lindor, Wolters, and maybe Aguilar I don't see a position players even close to being a better Major League prospect.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby JP_Frost » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:28 pm

Just had to share this with you guys. It's from Goldstein's BP chat last monday:

Kevin (NJ): Which player in instructs did you get the most surprising (in a good way) report(s) on from scouts?

Kevin Goldstein: Reports on Francisco Lindor bordered on insane.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:04 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Just had to share this with you guys. It's from Goldstein's BP chat last monday:

Kevin (NJ): Which player in instructs did you get the most surprising (in a good way) report(s) on from scouts?

Kevin Goldstein: Reports on Francisco Lindor bordered on insane.


Not that rankings matter in the end, but I think he's gonna end up on a few top 50 overall lists this winter.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby JP_Frost » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:25 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
JP_Frost wrote:Just had to share this with you guys. It's from Goldstein's BP chat last monday:

Kevin (NJ): Which player in instructs did you get the most surprising (in a good way) report(s) on from scouts?

Kevin Goldstein: Reports on Francisco Lindor bordered on insane.


Not that rankings matter in the end, but I think he's gonna end up on a few top 50 overall lists this winter.


Think so as well. Most lists he'll be probably be ranked in the second half of a top 100, but some might rank him higher (goldstein for instance).
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:35 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:Really surprised CC Lee isnt getting more love. I havent finished my list but think he has to be much closer t our 10th best prospect than our 20th.... 2 years of solid/dominating performances, if he can replicate his minor league success in the majors he would be a top set-up man. Possibly a closer, but he looks like the tribes 8th inning (GET THAT K) man in the near future to me. With Hagadone already in the CLeveland, we could end up having a very menacing BP for a long time.


Agreed. Especially this year with such a diluted talent pool in the Top 10-20, Lee is gonna get high rankings in the national pubs. I haven't even started my ranking yet, but off the top of my head I think he is a definite lock for Top 15 and maybe even Top 10. He may only be a reliever, but there are few true starting pitching prospects in the system other than Araujo, McAllister, Barnes and Howard and all of them have varying potential. If Hagadone is up there as a reliever, Lee is just as good and should be right with him IMO. Aside from Lindor, Wolters, and maybe Aguilar I don't see a position players even close to being a better Major League prospect.

I agree with both of you somewhat. Speaking of RPs, I do not think Lee should be ranked as highly as Hagadone and Putnam. I still have not decided where to rank the "walking wounded" pitchers like Rondon, Perez and Knapp but based upon his performance thus far I will likely rank Rondon well ahead of Lee whom I tend to group with Stowell and Bryson. Perez has given some indication of return to health but I see little in Knapp's rehab to be real optimistic about. But it is early yet and I think there is still player movement. :pleasantry:
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby jellis » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:03 am

Here is my top 30, In general I under value relievers as always. I think the shocker would be unranked Weglarz just not sure he will make the majors now

1. lindor
2. howard
3. Araujo
4. Wolters
5. Knapp
6. Barnes
7 Sterling
8. Mcallister
9. Phelps
10. Adams
11 Rondon
12 Aguilar
13 Lee
14 Washington
15 Neal
16 Hagadone
17 Luigi Rodriquez
18 Ronnie Rodriquez
19 Haase
20 Sisco
21 Chen
22 Myles
23 Soto
24 Stowell
25 Lowery
26 Putnam
27 Allen
28 Martinez
29 MacFarland
30 Federoff
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:07 pm

Just listened to Goldstein's and Jason Park's podcast -- http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... entMessage. They touched on our farm system, and namely Lindor.

They mentioned Robel Garcia as a very good defensive 3rd baseman who could rake and Dillon Howard as a very strong prospect, but the star of the show was Lindor by far.

Both guys were amazed at his talent and think he could become the best prospect in baseball in a few years. Parks talked to a scout who was baffled by the fact Lindor lasted untill the 8th spot in the draft and the reason why there were rumors about the M's taking him 2nd overall was because his workout was supposedly insane. Parks saw Lindor play in the fall leagues and felt he was just so much better than anyone else on the field. Particularly the way he tracked pitches at the plate impressed him (said he looked like a big leaguer in that regard). Goldstein was very positive about Lindor's glove, calling it plus to plus-plus.

Overall they thought our system wasn't very good right now, but it has the potential to become very good. Like all of us here said, the lower levels is where you find the most interesting guys.

I know Goldstein can hype up a prospect, but sweet lord, I'm excited about Lindor. Can't wait to see how he does next season.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:01 pm

JP_Frost wrote:Just listened to Goldstein's and Jason Park's podcast -- http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... entMessage. They touched on our farm system, and namely Lindor.

They mentioned Robel Garcia as a very good defensive 3rd baseman who could rake and Dillon Howard as a very strong prospect, but the star of the show was Lindor by far.

Both guys were amazed at his talent and think he could become the best prospect in baseball in a few years. Parks talked to a scout who was baffled by the fact Lindor lasted untill the 8th spot in the draft and the reason why there were rumors about the M's taking him 2nd overall was because his workout was supposedly insane. Parks saw Lindor play in the fall leagues and felt he was just so much better than anyone else on the field. Particularly the way he tracked pitches at the plate impressed him (said he looked like a big leaguer in that regard). Goldstein was very positive about Lindor's glove, calling it plus to plus-plus.

Overall they thought our system wasn't very good right now, but it has the potential to become very good. Like all of us here said, the lower levels is where you find the most interesting guys.

I know Goldstein can hype up a prospect, but sweet lord, I'm excited about Lindor. Can't wait to see how he does next season.


Words such as "insane", "unbelievable", "amazing" have all been bandied about w/r to the way Lindor has performed. Goldstein and Park will have to get in line to present the accolades this kid is generating..
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:51 pm

You're right about that.

Obviously, it's not guarantee for success, but it seems like the sky is the limit for this kid. One thing I haven't heard much about though is his power potential. During draft time we heard varying reports about that. Some thought he'd top around 10 homers other thought he could double that total. I wonder if anything has changed since more guys saw him play against more advanced competition. Let's not forget that this kid is still only 17-years old.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:57 pm

Still a long ways to go with Lindor, but agree, can't believe he fell to 8th still even with how top heavy the draft was. Tribe's gain though and I stand by the Jeter/Rollins-type comps I (and others) threw at him before the draft. Potential is off the charts.
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Re: Mid-Season Ranking Lists

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:45 am

Hermie13 wrote:Still a long ways to go with Lindor, but agree, can't believe he fell to 8th still even with how top heavy the draft was. Tribe's gain though and I stand by the Jeter/Rollins-type comps I (and others) threw at him before the draft. Potential is off the charts.


Comps can be a huge boost to a players popularity or career or a yoke around their neck that will never allow them to become what that player truly is.. Comparisons of Lindor to a hall of fame player like Derek Jeter shows some hubris, but, perhaps not unwarranted. While Lindor is at least two, and perhaps three years away from becoming a factor at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario, and a lot can happen between now and then. Then it occurred to me, what good is projecting a SS without a side kick?

As a Friend of the Feather, did it ever get better than watching the play of Robbie Alomar and Omar Vizquel? Some believe the best ever was the keystone combination of Alan Trammel and Lou Whitaker (it was at least one of the longest). Baseball purists would point to the Joe Tinkers/Johnny Evers combination for the early 20th century Cubs. The Indians appear to have their second baseman of the future with Jason Kipnis currently being paired with Asdrubal Cabrera. That may be what Tribe fans get to witness/enjoy over the next few years and it should be entertaining. When Lindor is ready, Kipnis could be entering the prime of his career.. would projecting a Kipnis / Lindor keystone combo merit comp'ing?

What keystone combo would they resemble?.. How about Davey Concepcion/Joe Morgan?..or, perhaps even as good as Ozzie Smith/Tommy Herr?..

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