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2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Talk about the Cleveland Indians, Major League Baseball, and other sports.

Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:31 pm

We need to put him on the other side of the fence tonight...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:44 pm

Nice team effort against the Sox in today day game... night game to follow.. Fausto kept the Indians in the game.. and the top of the lineup scored the runs.. Great effort by Joe Smith.. he's like a cat off the mound getting to ground smashed hit near him....

Onto game two of the four game series.. Go Tribe...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:31 am

McAllister had a decent start and looks like he will be a solid depth option with a bit more time in Columbus. I think the Indians have to be pleased with the late season performance of two bench options for next year, Donald and Duncan. Hagadone looked like he is ready to be productive in ML relief. If you need a silver lining to all the injuries, we got a good look at a lot of players and some will help next year and beyond.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:35 am

indianinkslinger wrote:McAllister had a decent start and looks like he will be a solid depth option with a bit more time in Columbus. I think the Indians have to be pleased with the late season performance of two bench options for next year, Donald and Duncan. Hagadone looked like he is ready to be productive in ML relief. If you need a silver lining to all the injuries, we got a good look at a lot of players and some will help next year and beyond.


I spent the time watching the 2nd game. Giving it away by putting a pitcher Acta knew could not hold the lead (today's PD) blows my mind. Putnam should NOT be pitching when the game means something. He has been terribly disappointing. I thought the goal was to finish 2nd and a .500 record.

Bob
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby A.Zajac » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:51 am

Bearcatbob wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:McAllister had a decent start and looks like he will be a solid depth option with a bit more time in Columbus. I think the Indians have to be pleased with the late season performance of two bench options for next year, Donald and Duncan. Hagadone looked like he is ready to be productive in ML relief. If you need a silver lining to all the injuries, we got a good look at a lot of players and some will help next year and beyond.


I spent the time watching the 2nd game. Giving it away by putting a pitcher Acta knew could not hold the lead (today's PD) blows my mind. Putnam should NOT be pitching when the game means something. He has been terribly disappointing. I thought the goal was to finish 2nd and a .500 record.

Bob


That's the thing, Bob.. these games DON'T mean anything. We're out of contention and he wants to get a look at these young guys for next year.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby jellis » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:04 am

kind of a shame we didnt do better in the Seattle series, and put up an ok fight with Detroit because who would have guessed we could have stayed in the WC hunt till the end
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Prosecutor » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:06 am

indianinkslinger wrote:McAllister had a decent start and looks like he will be a solid depth option with a bit more time in Columbus. I think the Indians have to be pleased with the late season performance of two bench options for next year, Donald and Duncan. Hagadone looked like he is ready to be productive in ML relief. If you need a silver lining to all the injuries, we got a good look at a lot of players and some will help next year and beyond.


Duncan and Donald have been really impressive in September. With the lack of any major league ready outfielders in the system, except for possibly Neal, Duncan may have earned himself another year in Cleveland. It might depend on whether Sizemore comes back and if Brantley is moved to center, creating an opening in left field. I'm not saying Duncan will be the everyday left fielder, but he's making a strong statement that he belongs on the team, especially with his ability to punish left-handed pitching.

Donald is hitting over .300 and his ability to play shortstop and give Astrubal a break occasionally while not killing the team offensively and defensively is a nice asset. Astrubal never got a break this year and his second half numbers reflect that. Now that Donald is finally healthy he looks like a major league player, and has taken advantage of his opportunity, unlike Valbuena and Phelps.

Likewise Hagadone looks like he belongs up here. However, Tony says that Putnam is the top relief prospect in the Indians system and will make a strong case for being in the bigs next year. Looks like Durbin is gone for sure and probably Herrmann as well. Too bad Herrmann has never been able to establish any consistency. You never know what you're going to get when he comes in to a game.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:22 am

jellis wrote:kind of a shame we didnt do better in the Seattle series, and put up an ok fight with Detroit because who would have guessed we could have stayed in the WC hunt till the end

Agree with you here jellis. But the better team won. Detroit has the vets and the payroll and the fans to pay for them. The Indians had injuries and young unseasoned players. The way I figure it, the Indians payroll without some cutting will be in the mid 60s next year which is way to high considering the attendance. Hard to believe that the Indians can really go much above 55-60 with their attendance which makes for some hard choices. Their welfare check is likely to be smaller this year with MLB attendance down overall so it is difficult to predict a budget. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:21 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
jellis wrote:kind of a shame we didnt do better in the Seattle series, and put up an ok fight with Detroit because who would have guessed we could have stayed in the WC hunt till the end

Agree with you here jellis. But the better team won. Detroit has the vets and the payroll and the fans to pay for them. The Indians had injuries and young unseasoned players. The way I figure it, the Indians payroll without some cutting will be in the mid 60s next year which is way to high considering the attendance. Hard to believe that the Indians can really go much above 55-60 with their attendance which makes for some hard choices. Their welfare check is likely to be smaller this year with MLB attendance down overall so it is difficult to predict a budget. :pleasantry:


From what I've heard mid 60s is very reasonable for the Tribe next year. Won't have a ton of room to add something but should have a lil wiggle room even if they pick up Grady's option. Tribe will need to capitalize on the NBA lockout/Cavs being bad and they likely will. Nearly half a million bump in attendance will help. Tribe knew that this bump to the low 60s was coming regardless and wouldn't have made a move for Ubaldo if they didnt' think they could spend some in 2012/2013.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:25 pm

For 2012, with both Fausto and Grady's options picked up, the Indians are committed to $ 32.7 MM in payroll. There are three players slated for ARBI (Sipp Masterson & Duncan), There five players are slated for ARB II (Choo, Droobs, Smith, C. Perez, and Jack Hannahan) and one player slated for ARB III (Raffy Left). The entire ARB group, if all are retained, will probably amount to approximately $ 24 MM. Add in a handful of league minimum players and the Indians should have a baseline for payroll of around $ 56-58 MM. The added attendance (over 30 % above projected) and added TV revenues (ratings up over 80 %) will allow the Indians to have a little money to spend..

afterall.. the time is right..

Who on the list of ARB players do you see not being retained/non-tendered/traded?..
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:12 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
indianinkslinger wrote:
jellis wrote:kind of a shame we didnt do better in the Seattle series, and put up an ok fight with Detroit because who would have guessed we could have stayed in the WC hunt till the end

Agree with you here jellis. But the better team won. Detroit has the vets and the payroll and the fans to pay for them. The Indians had injuries and young unseasoned players. The way I figure it, the Indians payroll without some cutting will be in the mid 60s next year which is way to high considering the attendance. Hard to believe that the Indians can really go much above 55-60 with their attendance which makes for some hard choices. Their welfare check is likely to be smaller this year with MLB attendance down overall so it is difficult to predict a budget. :pleasantry:


From what I've heard mid 60s is very reasonable for the Tribe next year. Won't have a ton of room to add something but should have a lil wiggle room even if they pick up Grady's option. Tribe will need to capitalize on the NBA lockout/Cavs being bad and they likely will. Nearly half a million bump in attendance will help. Tribe knew that this bump to the low 60s was coming regardless and wouldn't have made a move for Ubaldo if they didnt' think they could spend some in 2012/2013.

2013 is probably not an issue with the Hafner savings but I do not see a lot of optimism for 2012. In spite of the increase in attendance in a year when the Indians were competitive all year, the actual result still places the Indians in the lower attendance echelon and far below the 30K average necessary to reach midpoint. With the attendance increase and lower MLB attendance, Cleveland's welfare check will likely suffer greatly. I seriously doubt the Cavs will effect the Tribe attendance whatsoever. There is no known correlation between Cavs performance like has been shown for the Browns. But your comments are well made and may well turn out to be right. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:33 am

I have been told that the Indians have to make a decision on Sizemore's option by 10/15. Seems like an odd date but I could use some help here if anyone knows. It is difficult for me to imagine picking up Sizemore's option if that is indeed the case. Seems like it would be closer to the FA date, which I remember as nearer to 11/1. I would guess that Trevor Crowe is unlikely to remain on the 40 given his injuries. Even with all the broken players being returned to the 40 on 11/20, it does not look to me like there is much pressure on the 40 since there really isn't much that we would lose that has high prospect value, at least from my point of view.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:17 pm

wow, Acta ejected in the 1st inning.

Wondering if that was semi-planned? Let Tolman manage a game before finishing his coaching career for good :dunno:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby jellis » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:23 pm

if my numbers are right tonights game as some meaning a win and we end up 500 we lose and we end up with a protected pick in the draft so win win
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:28 pm

Hermie13 wrote:wow, Acta ejected in the 1st inning.

Wondering if that was semi-planned? Let Tolman manage a game before finishing his coaching career for good :dunno:


I would not be surprised if that is exactly the case. Tolman had been Manny's mgr back in the minors.

On other related topics - I like that the Tribe has named Sandy as the bench coach for next season (assuming Sandy is still here). I also believe this will ensure "Sarby" is on the staff next season - in some capacity. :s_thumbsup
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:37 pm

jellis wrote:if my numbers are right tonights game as some meaning a win and we end up 500 we lose and we end up with a protected pick in the draft so win win


Yup. Unless there's some rule about the Nats since they only played 161 games this year (if we lose, we have a worse win pct, but same number of wins), I think you're right. We'd end up with the 15th pick vs 16th....or a protected pick vs unprotected.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:39 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:I would not be surprised if that is exactly the case. Tolman had been Manny's mgr back in the minors.

On other related topics - I like that the Tribe has named Sandy as the bench coach for next season (assuming Sandy is still here). I also believe this will ensure "Sarby" is on the staff next season - in some capacity. :s_thumbsup


Yeah I don't see how you can keep Sarbaugh off the staff. Make him 1st base or even 3rd base (sick of Smith). I'd even take ihm as a hitting coach if they are not sold on Fields (Sarby was a hitting coach for a number of years in the minors).

Will be very disappointed if he's not promoted. Think it's a lock though.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby jellis » Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:16 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
MadThinker88 wrote:I would not be surprised if that is exactly the case. Tolman had been Manny's mgr back in the minors.

On other related topics - I like that the Tribe has named Sandy as the bench coach for next season (assuming Sandy is still here). I also believe this will ensure "Sarby" is on the staff next season - in some capacity. :s_thumbsup


Yeah I don't see how you can keep Sarbaugh off the staff. Make him 1st base or even 3rd base (sick of Smith). I'd even take ihm as a hitting coach if they are not sold on Fields (Sarby was a hitting coach for a number of years in the minors).

Will be very disappointed if he's not promoted. Think it's a lock though.



I hope its a lock we have an opening, and I dont think he can be ignored
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:52 pm

It's a lock there is at least 1 opening (from Tolman leaving the staff). The question is will there be more than 1 opening (from someone else departing - voluntarily or not).
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:29 pm

So the 2011 Indians finish with a record of 80-82. That's an 11 game improvement over the 2010 season. There were also no big additions in the off season. An 11 game improvement is huge, and major steps were taken even though we ended up under .500. :good:

Personally, I will think of this season of "the season of what could have been." The injuries were unbelievable. Yet they fought through for the most part. :s_sorry

As for the division race, what makes it hurt is the fact that the Tigers won because of what they added ad the trade deadline. I'm not sure they win without Fister and Young. Also, losing 10 straight to these guys leaves a bad taste in my mouth. :s_mad
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:45 am

So the Indians get the 15th pick....and protected to boot. Now they can go out and go after a Willingham and only have to worry about it costing money.

Also, wow, what a night of games. LOVE the Red Sox missing the playoffs! GO RAYS!
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:40 am

TonyIPI wrote:Also, wow, what a night of games. LOVE the Red Sox missing the playoffs! GO RAYS!


Baltimore deserves a lot of credit for playing hard on their final meaningless day.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:09 am

Interesting parallels to the 2010/2011 seasons and the 2003/2004 seasons:

2003 68-94
2010 69-93

2004 80-82
2011 80-82

2005 93-69
2012 T.B.D.

The Indians are bringing along a much deeper team in this second iteration of the "Wave".. i.e. the seven year cycle of contending.. falling back, regrouping, acquiring young talent, developing, competing.. The Indians enter the 2011-2012 off season with:

-At least four spots in the rotation solidly established: Masterson, Jimenez, Tomlin, Fausto. The starting pitching staff has at least three, and possibly four options for the fifth spot in the rotation. (Jeanmar Gomez, Zach McAllister, David Huff, Mitch Talbot) While none of these guys have a lot of helium, they have all performed at the ML level in 2011 and have shown the ability to be effective.

-Five of the seven spots in the bullpen including the closer solidly established: Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Joe Smith, Tony Sipp, Rafael Perez. Additionally, there are six other bullpen arms that have made appearances in the ML's in 2010 & 2011 that will compete for these open spots and to be ready in the event of need.

-Six of the nine every day starting spots definitively decided: Carlos Santana C, Jason Kipnis 2B, Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Lonnie Chisenhall 3B, Travis Hafner DH, Shin-soo Choo RF. Additionally, the CF, LF and 1B spots are currently manned and backed up by some interesting prospects and veterans. CF is especially deep, having Grady Sizemore, the incumbent, Michael Brantley and Zeke Carrera all capable of filling this spot. Additionally, Brantley, Crowe, Duncan and perhaps Thomas Neal. 1B is a spot that has been claimed by Matt LaPorta, however, with the desire to keep Carlos Santana "fresh" and an undeserved maligning of Matt LaPorta's progress, this position cannot be called definitively decided.

So, heading into the off season.. parallels exist, but the depth is there this time.. and only time and maturity will tell if these guys are the ones who will compete for the division title.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby daingean » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:09 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Interesting parallels to the 2010/2011 seasons and the 2003/2004 seasons:

2003 68-94
2010 69-93

2004 80-82
2011 80-82

2005 93-69
2012 T.B.D.

The Indians are bringing along a much deeper team in this second iteration of the "Wave".. i.e. the seven year cycle of contending.. falling back, regrouping, acquiring young talent, developing, competing.. The Indians enter the 2011-2012 off season with:

-At least four spots in the rotation solidly established: Masterson, Jimenez, Tomlin, Fausto. The starting pitching staff has at least three, and possibly four options for the fifth spot in the rotation. (Jeanmar Gomez, Zach McAllister, David Huff, Mitch Talbot) While none of these guys have a lot of helium, they have all performed at the ML level in 2011 and have shown the ability to be effective.

-Five of the seven spots in the bullpen including the closer solidly established: Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Joe Smith, Tony Sipp, Rafael Perez. Additionally, there are six other bullpen arms that have made appearances in the ML's in 2010 & 2011 that will compete for these open spots and to be ready in the event of need.

-Six of the nine every day starting spots definitively decided: Carlos Santana C, Jason Kipnis 2B, Asdrubal Cabrera SS, Lonnie Chisenhall 3B, Travis Hafner DH, Shin-soo Choo RF. Additionally, the CF, LF and 1B spots are currently manned and backed up by some interesting prospects and veterans. CF is especially deep, having Grady Sizemore, the incumbent, Michael Brantley and Zeke Carrera all capable of filling this spot. Additionally, Brantley, Crowe, Duncan and perhaps Thomas Neal. 1B is a spot that has been claimed by Matt LaPorta, however, with the desire to keep Carlos Santana "fresh" and an undeserved maligning of Matt LaPorta's progress, this position cannot be called definitively decided.

So, heading into the off season.. parallels exist, but the depth is there this time.. and only time and maturity will tell if these guys are the ones who will compete for the division title.


+1 and you know that CA is going to add to the roster in the off-season. I just don't think it will be a top of the line guy but someone that will compete for a starting position.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:09 pm

Yeah definitely like the Indians chances in 2012. That 2004 club had 9 guys play in at least 130 games....

The 2011 Indians had TWO!

If we can get healthier, no reason this club can't win 85-90 games without an addition. Add in a bat or pitcher and 90-95 seems doable. Optimistic for sure as you don't know how guys like Kipnis and Chiz will react to a full season, but liked what I saw this year :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GhostofTedCox » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:18 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Interesting parallels to the 2010/2011 seasons and the 2003/2004 seasons:

2003 68-94
2010 69-93

2004 80-82
2011 80-82

2005 93-69
2012 T.B.D.

The Indians are bringing along a much deeper team in this second iteration of the "Wave".. i.e. the seven year cycle of contending.. falling back, regrouping, acquiring young talent, developing, competing.. The Indians enter the 2011-2012 off season with:



-At least four spots in the rotation solidly established: Masterson, Jimenez, Tomlin, Fausto. The starting pitching staff has at least three, and possibly four options for the fifth spot in the rotation. (Jeanmar Gomez, Zach McAllister, David Huff, Mitch Talbot) While none of these guys have a lot of helium, they have all performed at the ML level in 2011 and have shown the ability to be effective.

-Five of the seven spots in the bullpen including the closer solidly established: Chris Perez, Vinnie Pestano, Joe Smith, Tony Sipp, Rafael Perez. Additionally, there are six other bullpen arms that have made appearances in the ML's in 2010 & 2011 that will compete for these open spots and to be ready in the event of need.


The 2003-05 teams could only dream about having a pitching staff and bully as good as we do now. In fact, this may be the best staff since the days of Tiant, McDowell, and Siebert. (That's going back a ways, kids.)
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:27 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:The 2003-05 teams could only dream about having a pitching staff and bully as good as we do now. In fact, this may be the best staff since the days of Tiant, McDowell, and Siebert. (That's going back a ways, kids.)


Yikes. Tribe staff ranked 10th in the AL....rotation ranked 10th as well. We've had WAY better staffs in recent years. That 1995 was lightyears ahead of this one.

Crazy, but our 2004 rotaiton actually ranked 5th in the AL. Bullpen was pretty terrible though, as the staff as a whole was only 10th.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:26 am

I am hoping that Tony can give me an answer but it is an open question. I understand that the Indians are still considering their option on Johnson and are awaiting results from a physical. Is he playing anywhere in the off season?
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Travis Buck has opted to become a FA... he can sign with anyone in 2012...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:42 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Travis Buck has opted to become a FA... he can sign with anyone in 2012...


I wish him luck. He probably took an objective view of his opportunity here & realized his chances were not that good. Pursue that dream as long as you can.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:56 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:I am hoping that Tony can give me an answer but it is an open question. I understand that the Indians are still considering their option on Johnson and are awaiting results from a physical. Is he playing anywhere in the off season?


In all honesty, I'd be surprised if they pick up his $2.5 million option for 2012. He looked done this year and the wrist bothered him right up until the end of the season. But it's not my call....
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:14 pm

Interesting that Jason Donald is getting reps in the OF in the Parallel League.. I think Hermie mentioned he'd like to see Jason Donald in the OF where he defense wouldn't be so glaring..... :rolleyes:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:16 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Interesting that Jason Donald is getting reps in the OF in the Parallel League.. I think Hermie mentioned he'd like to see Jason Donald in the OF where he defense wouldn't be so glaring..... :rolleyes:


hmm, maybe I did. I do recall saying last year at this time that Donald should move to 3B due to lack of range in the middle. And low and behold, he was early in the year. :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:21 pm

Well, the Indians made the first offseason moves with removing Head and Talbot from the 40. I cannot say that either is a surprise. This looks to be the easiest year of 40 management the Indians have had from what I see. There looks to be 4 easy cuts for the 60s DL and that gives the team 2 open slots. I would think the Indians would not add more that 3-5 tops so further cuts or trades are likely to open enough room. If they lose a player or two like last year, then so be it. I doubt if it will matter much in the big scheme.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Edible14 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:52 am

Here's the 40 situation in my mind. With Putnam, Chiz and Kipnis already having been added throughout the season, there's no much that needs to be added. Right now, there are 38 spots taken, 4 guys on the 60 Day DL that have to be added in the off-season, and 3 free agents that aren't likely coming back (Durbin, Thome, Kosuke). Also, I'm thinking Grady's option is declined, leaving us 2 free spots.

The guys that can be cut most immediately are Valbuena and Crowe. That would leave 4 spots for guys, which honestly is probably more than we need. I expect that Mills, Roberto Perez, Alex Perez, Bryson and Stowell will all get consideration. Barnes is a lock. It might be that only one or two other guys is added besides Barnes, depending on what sort of things the Indians think they'll do in free agency. They may keep Valbuena and.or Crowe around as easy DFA candidates for when they sign those guys.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:51 pm

Edible14 wrote:Here's the 40 situation in my mind. With Putnam, Chiz and Kipnis already having been added throughout the season, there's no much that needs to be added. Right now, there are 38 spots taken, 4 guys on the 60 Day DL that have to be added in the off-season, and 3 free agents that aren't likely coming back (Durbin, Thome, Kosuke). Also, I'm thinking Grady's option is declined, leaving us 2 free spots.

The guys that can be cut most immediately are Valbuena and Crowe. That would leave 4 spots for guys, which honestly is probably more than we need. I expect that Mills, Roberto Perez, Alex Perez, Bryson and Stowell will all get consideration. Barnes is a lock. It might be that only one or two other guys is added besides Barnes, depending on what sort of things the Indians think they'll do in free agency. They may keep Valbuena and.or Crowe around as easy DFA candidates for when they sign those guys.

It seems like we are pretty much on the same page, Ed. I would think that Bryson and Stowell would be close to Barnes as a lock even though it is not a position of organizational need. My other two possibilities are McFarland and Mills since it looks remote to me that the Perez boys could even be stashed. Both have had good years. Any bat, even one as old and performance challenged as Mills, is vulnerable, especially to NL teams. While McFarland does not fit the classic draft profile, he looks like he would be easy to stash as LHR. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:20 pm

40 Man Roster Decisions can be "odd" at times..To start with, the Indians have 4 on the 60 day DL that have to be included. That puts the Indians 40 Man Roster at 39 to start.. The optimal number to achieve will be about 34 or 36. The first couple of names have already been removed: Jared Head and Mitch Talbot. The next two are pretty much a given: both Trevor Crowe and Luis Valbuena will not be rostered and open to Rule V draft (37)

In Valbuena's case, good riddance.. He's proven through the last three years that he's not a ML baseball player. He's got some skills.. is versatile.. but not for a contending team.. To say the Indians are going to miss him.. would be a drastic overstatement.

Crowe may be just good enough to warrant a Rule V claim.. it's a gamble the Indians will take.. and rightfully so. Crowe's recent injuries may sway teams to pass him up.. If he is claimed and recovers his health, he wouldn't need to be "hidden" as he is a switch hitter ( not very good against left handers.. mediocre against right handers) and can play, at least before the surgeries, all three outfield spots..

The next three spots to open up will include Jim Thome, Chad Durbin and Kosuke Fukudome.. While it was great having Thome wearing his familiar # 25 on his back and Chief Wahoo on his sleeve, another "DH only" older player just doesn't have a spot on this roster.. Chad Durbin holds a roster spot that can be replaced by anyone of five or ten other candidates.. He's gone.. Kosuke Fukudome was a very good addition by CA in the middle of the 2011 season. He is a player that would be welcomed back if a reasonable contract can be negotiated. For the roster, as it sits right now and in line with his contract, he'd be excluded as he cannot be offered arbitration. It's probably a good thing that he cannot be offered arbitration as that would make him a non-tender. There is NO WAY the Indians would pay him the minimum required $ 10.6 MM. (34)

Oddities: Two players, Fausto Carmona and Grady Sizemore are currently included in the (34) from above and, upon their contract either being picked up (Fausto) or renegotiated/picked up (Grady), will remain.

The Indians don't have a lot of players that are in need of roster protection, but there are at least a few who should be considered "locks" for protection:

-Thomas Neal
-Nick Weglarz
-Kelvin de la Cruz.

Each of these three guys have some ability, are well thought of.. and will likely be snatched up if they are not rostered. The addition of these three would give the Indians 37 roster spots on the 40 man with the possibility of removing Corey Kluber or Shelly Duncan if additional 40 man rosters spots are needed. Next year's crop of draftees, i.e. when the 2008 draftees are getting to the point of needing roster protection, will be much more difficult to protect..

Commnets...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby daingean » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:39 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:The Indians don't have a lot of players that are in need of roster protection, but there are at least a few who should be considered "locks" for protection:

-Thomas Neal
-Nick Weglarz
-Kelvin de la Cruz.



Not sure about protecting Wegs or KdlC per Tony's write up or Crowe being removed. We will see but Crowe has played CF and may be a useful reserve (at least more so than injury-prone Wegs or KdlC will be). The bigger question is how many FA additions will this team add in the off season?
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:12 pm

daingean wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:The Indians don't have a lot of players that are in need of roster protection, but there are at least a few who should be considered "locks" for protection:

-Thomas Neal
-Nick Weglarz
-Kelvin de la Cruz.



Not sure about protecting Wegs or KdlC per Tony's write up or Crowe being removed. We will see but Crowe has played CF and may be a useful reserve (at least more so than injury-prone Wegs or KdlC will be). The bigger question is how many FA additions will this team add in the off season?


Best guess on FA acquisitions this off season.. one (Erik Bedard, LHSP).. maybe less than one if there is a price bloated feeding frenzy....
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:15 pm

Just an FYI, but the Indians roster is currently at 42, which includes the 4 60-day DL guys. Once the 3 free agents Thome, Durbin, and Fukudome are removed in the next few days then the roster will be at 39.

Also, Thome, Neal, and De La Cruz are all currently on the 40-man roster. I see no reason though why if either were removed why anyone would take Thome or De La in the Rule 5. It's a complete moot point as all a team would have to do is claim them on waivers. If a team doesn't want to claim them on waivers, then there is no way in hell they go in Rule 5.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:38 pm

I was using the Yahoo roster that didn't have Thomas Neal or de la Cruz on it.. Thome is on the roster but won't be shortly..

So, no argument about Thome, Durbin, Crowe, Valbuena and Fukudome being lopped off the list of 42 bring the number to 37..with Kluber next and Duncan following. I'd rather see Duncan remain on the 40 man.. if a spot is available.

There will just not be a lot of "FA acquisitions" this off season.. perhaps just one...
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:08 pm

Though his name is on "the list" - there is no way the tribe will DFA Duncan. It would take not one but at least 2 serious/major/awesome acquisitions to reach that point where the FO would feel comfy moving on.. Besides he would never clear waivers IMO, at the very least he would be claimed and the claiming team would then attempt to pass him through. The only way you don't see Duncan in Cleveland next year is if he is traded, I could see teams requesting him as a throw in piece for sure or if the tribe needs some quick cash.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:35 pm

FYI but my reference to Thome above being removed and not being taken in Rule 5....I meant Weglarz.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:54 pm

TonyIPI wrote:FYI but my reference to Thome above being removed and not being taken in Rule 5....I meant Weglarz.

I assume you know/suspect something we don't when you failed to include Sizemore on the list. I thought his option was very unlikely but you are treating it as a given. Fess up fearless leader! :friends:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:56 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Though his name is on "the list" - there is no way the tribe will DFA Duncan. It would take not one but at least 2 serious/major/awesome acquisitions to reach that point where the FO would feel comfy moving on.. Besides he would never clear waivers IMO, at the very least he would be claimed and the claiming team would then attempt to pass him through. The only way you don't see Duncan in Cleveland next year is if he is traded, I could see teams requesting him as a throw in piece for sure or if the tribe needs some quick cash.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Duncan already been DFAed once (by the Yanks)? So don't know about another team claiming him then trying and sneaking him through.

I do agree, can't see Duncan getting removed. I mean, the guy survived last year (when we really had more guys to roster). Now this year he actually played better, he didn't qualify for Super Two, and 1B and LF are even bigger question marks (IMO at least). As you said, unless we go crazy and bring in a lot of 1B/OF help Duncan really has to stay.

Tribe better not trade Duncan for some "quick cash"....guy will make near the min and won't bring much money back. Would be a waste.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:10 pm

Tony - the payroll chart is amazing! Thanks for all the work that went into it.
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:30 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Tony - the payroll chart is amazing! Thanks for all the work that went into it.


Thanks....always a good way to not only see allocated money but also player control over a 7 year period.

As for the Sizemore thing Inker....admittedly I did not even think to include him. I should have included him on that listing, but I think in the end he is brought back in some capacity (reduced contract or flat out pick up the option).
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Mitch "unleash the fury" Talbot has elected to become a FA.. thanks for the memories.. and don't let the door hitcha on da ass on the way out....
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:14 pm

TonyIPI wrote:
martyinnewyork wrote:Tony - the payroll chart is amazing! Thanks for all the work that went into it.


Thanks....always a good way to not only see allocated money but also player control over a 7 year period.

As for the Sizemore thing Inker....admittedly I did not even think to include him. I should have included him on that listing, but I think in the end he is brought back in some capacity (reduced contract or flat out pick up the option).

OK, no inside info from you for us to regale. My thoughts are that they won't exercise his option but will announce a new incentive laden deal after the draft if Sizemore is willing. Gives the best of both worlds from what I see. Keeps payroll down so money can be spent on trades or FAs and gives Sizemore an opportunity to cash in on his many fans and bring some back to Cleveland if his performance is worthy. I would like to see the Tribe reach the 2M mark in attendance which is a modest goal but has not been there for a while. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Cleveland Indians Comment Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:00 pm

Congrats to Asdrubal.. anytime you're name is being compared with Lou Boudreau, that's says a lot... :s_thumbsup
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