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Pomeranz out for the season

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Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Rocky55 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:49 am

Per MILB.com, Pom underwent an apendectomy & will miss the remainder of the season. Notable but it's not an injury that should set him back much. Must be close to his IP limit anyway.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:11 pm

I saw that story on Drew and immediately thought the Indians dodged a bullet.
Will Drew fully regain form after the surgery? Most likely but not a lock.

I hadn't considered the number of IP for Drew this season but Colorado might have different guidelines for its pitchers.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:44 pm

Well, Pom actually is back pitching.

3 perfect innings today for Tulsa and now he's joining up with the big league club.

He's not been activated yet but, according to Rockies official site, he will be later this month and will make his ML debut this year.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:32 pm

Seemed kinda of strange an appendectomy would have kept him out the rest of the year. Its not that big of deal really unless there are complications which is rare. Seems like the rockies are ready to attempt to roll with white and pomeranz in next years rotation, maybe not to start the year but wouldn't rule it out.. Either way, both will be pitching a lot for the ML club next year IMO. Will be interesting to follow.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:36 pm

I don't understand why the Rockies are acting so desperate here in getting Pomeranz on the roster and pitching in Colorado this year.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:46 pm

@ Tony... Agreed I personally believe it's fan base driven in a way they regret trading Jimenez bc they cry out from the fans has / had been somewhat tremendous. Others were very critical of Jimenez while he was there.

I like Jimenez but it was tough to swallow tr both the top pitchers in the system away, but it's a move thats understandable from the tribes perspective. Still kind if don't get why the Rockies wanted to tr him.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:50 pm

Perhaps the Rockies feel he really is major league ready. He looks pretty good to me, not saying they might be rushing a bit but im not a scout. Other than some issues with dealing with base runners he looks like he can do it IMO.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:04 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Perhaps the Rockies feel he really is major league ready. He looks pretty good to me, not saying they might be rushing a bit but im not a scout. Other than some issues with dealing with base runners he looks like he can do it IMO.


Even if he is 100% ML ready...what's the real benefit? Started his service clock and will have an extra 40-man roster guy all winter that you didn't need to have.

Yes, gets him some experience heading into next year....but seems like the risk/negatives far outweigh the experience/positive part, at least to me.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby ironmike » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:17 pm

What's so hard about understanding most organizations put winning ahead of development? IMO that is the way it should be. If the guy can play, that is the decision of the manager and the baseball staff, not the front office. They don't ask how old you are when you cross the white lines. The Rockies are trying to get past selling hope for 2012.

The Indians this year have done a good job of improving their won-loss record. More wins equals more attendance and revenue. It will be much easier to sell tickets this off-season than the "hope" they been marketing most of the time in the recent past.

The Indians are now at the crossroads ... they need to add professional position players to the young player core to get to the next level or stay stagnant in a very difficult division. The formula isn't new, its the John Hart & Hank Peters blue print about to be put in play again. It worked really well before unless you are a minor league junkie.

They'll need to add players with better on base percentages who K less and walk more than the players they have now. Do we not lead MLB in K's? If not, we are damn close. Wild, undisciplined pull happy hitters like Sizemore, Choo, Duncan, LaPorta and Santana have put a dent in our ability to score runs.

Great pitching still needs an offense that averages 4.5 to 5 runs a game to win and get to the playoffs. Offensively this team (2011) is one of the worst in the 50 years I've been following the Indians. The trick for mid-market teams is to have team balance. Remember when we had Tiant, McDowell, Siebert and Hargan in 1968, those guys pitched their asses off and we still didn't contend. Then we had Blyleven, Barker, Waits John Denny, Silvio Martinez Sorenson and other good starters in early 80's and still could not contend.

It is tough for markets our size to get it just right, KC is facing the same issues. 2012 at the moment, does not present us with a sure fire contending team because we are so weak offensively, including the top end of our minor league system.

The off-season like most will be a challenge, but Antonetti has balls, so I'm optimistic.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:19 pm

ironmike wrote:What's so hard about understanding most organizations put winning ahead of development? IMO that is the way it should be. If the guy can play, that is the decision of the manager and the baseball staff, not the front office. They don't ask how old you are when you cross the white lines. The Rockies are trying to get past selling hope for 2012.

Great pitching still needs an offense that averages 4.5 to 5 runs a game to win and get to the playoffs. Offensively this team (2011) is one of the worst in the 50 years I've been following the Indians. The trick for mid-market teams is to have team balance. Remember when we had Tiant, McDowell, Siebert and Hargan in 1968, those guys pitched their asses off and we still didn't contend. Then we had Blyleven, Barker, Waits John Denny, Silvio Martinez Sorenson and other good starters in early 80's and still could not contend.


Most of the time winning and development go hand in hand though. Call up a guy too early and it can ruin a kid.

hmm, disagree on the great pitching needs 4.5 to 5 runs a game to get into the playoffs. Only 3 teams in all of baseball have scored more than 4.75 runs per game. Pretty sure more than 3 teams are going to make the playoffs this year. Obviously you need to score more than the 4.21 the Indians are putting up...then again, you also need to keep teams from scoring (Tribe does not have 'great' pitching...at least in the rotation).

Tribe team ERA is 4.02...ranked 9th in the AL. Runs per game is 4.21...ranked 9th in the AL. The offense is a problem....but not close to the only problem. The rotation is actually ranked 10th in ERA in the AL (4.39). Fewest complete games and fewest shutouts as well.....bullpen has really saved this team and kept them in it.

Sorry, but no way is this one of the worst offenses the Tribe has run out in the last 50 years. Hell, we're still scoring runs better than half our divisional opponents (White Sox and Twins). Gotta put the offense in context with the rest of the league...offenses are down all over, not just in Cleveland.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:32 pm

Pomeranz makes his big league debut on the 11th....Good luck sir, but not that good.... :cry: :biggrin: Really a gutsy pure baseball move here, they really must believe he will be there to start next year. Starting his clock now just to give the Skip a quick looksy would be pointless if that was the only objective, pencil him in as yr 4th/5th starter (White rides too) for the rockies in 2012.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby martyinnewyork » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:09 pm

Alex White has given up 5 homers thus far today...
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:41 pm

Alex White walks too many batters, and, most troubling, gives up too many home runs (9 in 35IP). That's a bunch.
martyinnewyork wrote:Alex White has given up 5 homers thus far today...


But Alex White hung around the required five innings to get the Win.. 14 home runs in 40 innings.. is more than a bunch.... :cry:
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Edible14 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:07 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Alex White walks too many batters, and, most troubling, gives up too many home runs (9 in 35IP). That's a bunch.
martyinnewyork wrote:Alex White has given up 5 homers thus far today...


But Alex White hung around the required five innings to get the Win.. 14 home runs in 40 innings.. is more than a bunch.... :cry:


Yet another example of why wins are a stupid stat to judge a pitcher by.

That being said, I think you can pretty much just take this year as a wash for White. First exposure to the bigs, he was injured or coming off of injury for like 2/3 of the season.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:07 pm

5 home runs in the span of 12 batters. The pbp also listed 5 fly outs to "deep center". I was hoping the game story would mention when the last time was that a guy gave up 5 home runs and picked up the win... all I know is he's the only one of the 4 pitchers to do it this year and win. At least he didn't retire, unretire and then get suspended like the last guy who gave up five. Although, it sounds like it might be a good idea for the Rockies to give him the rest of the season off anyway.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:40 pm

Edible14 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
Alex White walks too many batters, and, most troubling, gives up too many home runs (9 in 35IP). That's a bunch.
martyinnewyork wrote:Alex White has given up 5 homers thus far today...


But Alex White hung around the required five innings to get the Win.. 14 home runs in 40 innings.. is more than a bunch.... :cry:


Yet another example of why wins are a stupid stat to judge a pitcher by.

That being said, I think you can pretty much just take this year as a wash for White. First exposure to the bigs, he was injured or coming off of injury for like 2/3 of the season.


Agree 100% -- also being traded is another reason he gets a free pass .This season is all about exposure for White not his stats, though Colorado would like better ones so far obviously... Same for Pom, though I am expecting better results.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 am

You have to wonder if White is still hurt, maybe it's his grip... He may have tried to adjust his grip to compensate. Who knows he could be really hurting... When I watched him his control was absolutely wild. Makes me wonder... He didn't look the same pitcher he was here briefly.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:24 pm

Pomeranz K's the 1st ML batter he faces, Drew Stubbs for his 1st ML out.........
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:36 pm

Pomeranz day is over - final line 5.0IP 2H 0R 0ER 2BB 2K and 1HBP only 63 pitches. - Jimenez's line 6IP 3H 2R 2ER 5BB 2K - 105 pitches....
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:50 am

criznit2009 wrote:Pomeranz day is over - final line 5.0IP 2H 0R 0ER 2BB 2K and 1HBP only 63 pitches. - Jimenez's line 6IP 3H 2R 2ER 5BB 2K - 105 pitches....
Edinson Volquez was the opposing pitcher for the Reds.

Pomeranz's line does look pretty impressive.. but look closer.. he was the benefactor of two DP's (with two of the slower reds batters starting them), he had two walks and a HBP.. to go with the two hits he gave up.. and he faced the Reds lineup only twice..

As this was his first ever ML Start.. it was very successful.. but I think Jim Tracy got Drew out of the game as quickly as he could..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:22 am

This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby daingean » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:28 am

Prosecutor wrote:This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.


I was not one of those guys that wanted to pursue Ubaldo but we have him now (due to velocity loss). In reality, Ubaldo could be the FOR pitcher for the next couple of years on a team that should challenge for the Central Division title. I will wait to issue a judgement on this trade with just 1 start for Pom. The value of this trade for us is what Ubaldo does next year and 2013 (not really what Pom and White does in Colorado) because winning a division title or 2 in the next few years is where this is.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:22 pm

Prosecutor wrote:This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.


Agreed - Pom had a good performance - regarding the 2 hits he gave up - both were singles and only one of them made it out of the infield.... With a little luck could of had a no hitter going into the 4th...
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GhostofTedCox » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:26 pm

criznit2009 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.


Agreed - Pom had a good performance - regarding the 2 hits he gave up - both were singles and only one of them made it out of the infield.... With a little luck could of had a no hitter going into the 4th...


Great for Pom. But who cares? I follow the Cleveland Indians organization. He's gone. Should we start a Jeremy Guthrie thread?
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:31 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Pomeranz K's the 1st ML batter he faces, Drew Stubbs for his 1st ML out.........


Isn't Stubbs 3rd in baseball among qualified bats in K-rate (behind Dunn and Reyonlds)?

Saw someone say Pom only had 2 swings and misses yesterday, not sure that's true or not. But would explain the low pitch count thru 5 innings.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:36 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.


Agreed - Pom had a good performance - regarding the 2 hits he gave up - both were singles and only one of them made it out of the infield.... With a little luck could of had a no hitter going into the 4th...


Great for Pom. But who cares? I follow the Cleveland Indians organization. He's gone. Should we start a Jeremy Guthrie thread?


I think we can follow Mr. Pomeranz for the rest of the year without people getting to bent out of shape...
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:16 pm

Hermie13 wrote:Saw someone say Pom only had 2 swings and misses yesterday, not sure that's true or not. But would explain the low pitch count thru 5 innings.


The ESPN box score tracks swinging strikes in their box score...... 11 Called, 3 Swinging, 9 Foul, 13 In-play strikes for Pom.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore? ... do-rockies
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Prosecutor » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:25 pm

daingean wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:This is nitpicking of the highest order. The Reds are 2nd in the NL in runs scored and Pomz shut them out for five innings on only two hits in his first ML appearance. Awesome performance. I was ambivalent on this trade when it happened but I really hate it now.


I was not one of those guys that wanted to pursue Ubaldo but we have him now (due to velocity loss). In reality, Ubaldo could be the FOR pitcher for the next couple of years on a team that should challenge for the Central Division title. I will wait to issue a judgement on this trade with just 1 start for Pom. The value of this trade for us is what Ubaldo does next year and 2013 (not really what Pom and White does in Colorado) because winning a division title or 2 in the next few years is where this is.


My concern is that we might have a better chance of winning a division title or two in the next two years with Pomeranz and White. After 2013, when Ubaldo's contract is up and he flies off to greener (as in the color of money) pastures, we'd have a much, much better chance with Pomz and White entering the prime of their careers.

I'm not basing my opinion on five innings against the Reds yesterday. I'm basing it on what Pomz and White have done since they came into the organization, and what Ubaldo has done since the All-Star break last year, which is not much.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:40 pm

Well. Ubaldo had another good outing.. now 3-1 in his last five starts and the Indians are 4-1.. That's something..

Alex White continued to add to his season that can be described as struggling or poor: 5.2 innings pitched 9 hits 6 runs 3 Walks 3 K's 2 Home Runs allowed (now 16 in 45 IP) and 6.75 ERA.. What he's becoming is a batting practice pitcher and it doesn't seem to matter who the opponent is...

Pomeranz gets his next start this evening in Coors Field (you can see it on MLB TV on line.. it's their free game of the day for those without the service)..You can peek at it during the Ohio State Miami of Florida game this evening.. first pitch is 8:10 pm ET..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby ironmike » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:36 pm

Tony we are you still celebrating Drew Pomeranz performances? If one of us posters would have called for Pomeranz to pitch this year for the Indians you would have defended the company line of "finishing off" Pomeranz in the minors.

How do I know? Because we've argued this very point for about 3 years.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:58 am

ironmike wrote:Tony we are you still celebrating Drew Pomeranz performances? If one of us posters would have called for Pomeranz to pitch this year for the Indians you would have defended the company line of "finishing off" Pomeranz in the minors.

How do I know? Because we've argued this very point for about 3 years.

History has shown that pitchers that are 'rushed' to the ML's, have a failure rate commensurate with their lack of maturity.. Defending a company line or not, if a player is ready.. he's ready, but it's always a wiser choice to err on the side of caution..

That said.. knowing that the Indians were not going to be able to catch the Tigers, it would not have been a huge surprise to see them bring Pomeranz up for one or both of the two double headers left on the schedule.. The Rockies found themselves in the unique position of not being able to catch the DBax (or SF Giants) and were well behind the WC leading Atlanta Braves, so, they made the decision to bring both Alex White and Drew Pomeranz up for the traditional cuppa coffee.... The Rockies have see an almost meltdown of Alex White's psyche.. and he may be headed to the bullpen as has been 'projected' from his initial drafting.. Pomeranz has been handled quite differently as he has been severly limited in the number of pitches and innings.. Pom has a bright future.. and it's being carefully crafted by the Rockies as they develop his mental approach to pitching in the big leagues.

To say the Indians wouldn't have done the same thing..is unfounded conjecture or rhetoric..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby daingean » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:06 am

GeronimoSon wrote:
ironmike wrote:Tony we are you still celebrating Drew Pomeranz performances? If one of us posters would have called for Pomeranz to pitch this year for the Indians you would have defended the company line of "finishing off" Pomeranz in the minors.

How do I know? Because we've argued this very point for about 3 years.

History has shown that pitchers that are 'rushed' to the ML's, have a failure rate commensurate with their lack of maturity.. Defending a company line or not, if a player is ready.. he's ready, but it's always a wiser choice to err on the side of caution..

That said.. knowing that the Indians were not going to be able to catch the Tigers, it would not have been a huge surprise to see them bring Pomeranz up for one or both of the two double headers left on the schedule.. The Rockies found themselves in the unique position of not being able to catch the DBax (or SF Giants) and were well behind the WC leading Atlanta Braves, so, they made the decision to bring both Alex White and Drew Pomeranz up for the traditional cuppa coffee.... The Rockies have see an almost meltdown of Alex White's psyche.. and he may be headed to the bullpen as has been 'projected' from his initial drafting.. Pomeranz has been handled quite differently as he has been severly limited in the number of pitches and innings.. Pom has a bright future.. and it's being carefully crafted by the Rockies as they develop his mental approach to pitching in the big leagues.

To say the Indians wouldn't have done the same thing..is unfounded conjecture or rhetoric..


I highly doubt that the Tribe would have brought Pom up just because he wouldn't have had to be protected in November (40 man) and the Tribe has plenty more tough choices wrt the 40. I haven't looked at the Rockies roster but they probably don't have such tough choices.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:36 am

Every team has tough choices..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:54 pm

Yeah I'd have been shocked if Pom would have been called up if still in Cleveland. He wouldn't have been sent to Arizona for 2 weeks so would have had at least 3 more starts if not more (probably 4 and maybe 5) in the minors. I know he worked out down there but not the same as real games. With Columbus in the playoffs he'd have likely been up there pitching and probably reaching his inning limit for the year.

I agree, all teams have tough choices....but when you throw in the extra innings Pom would have had, plus the Clippers being in the playoffs and just doesn't add up to Pom being added this September.

Carrasco has to be brought off the 60-day...can be put back on in spring training, could have waited to add Pom then if you really thought he was ready opening day. But had he not been traded...would have been on more of a White path.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:58 pm

ironmike wrote:Tony we are you still celebrating Drew Pomeranz performances? If one of us posters would have called for Pomeranz to pitch this year for the Indians you would have defended the company line of "finishing off" Pomeranz in the minors.

How do I know? Because we've argued this very point for about 3 years.


I'm celebrating his performances because he is a great kid, I wish him well, and want him to succeed. Just because he was traded away does not mean I want him to fail now to help justify the trade. I hope he goes on to win a half dozen CY Young awards.

I don't agree with the Rockies rushing him up this year, but that is just me. He has done well so far, but he is far from a finished product. Some people prefer to finish guys off at the big league level, some prefer to do it in Triple-A. No one way is right.

Hey, if anything, if Pomeranz succeeds it just adds more credit to the great job that Mirabelli/Grant are doing with the draft the last three years.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby ironmike » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:45 am

Tony but there is a right way. It's called winning games. Win as many as possible. That is the sole job of a MLB organization. The only real spotlight is between the white lines at Progressive Field.

Trades and promotions should only be judged by the amount of games teams win due to the additions or subtractions, not by individual performances. Play one game at a time, one series at a time, one season at a time. The goal out of spring training EVERY year should be to win a championship.

Great trade by Antonelli to acquire Jimenez, it took balls. They have a few other area of concerns going into 2012 but with a proactive approach as demonstrated so far by Antonelli they have a very good chance of improving over the off-season.

Balance out the minor league system. Right now we could have a shortage of position players for the next wave. Use the minor league system to promote and trade for players so the ML team improves and wins games at the ML level.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby ironmike » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:48 am

Forgot to mention. How does one know if Pomeranz was ready? Simple answer if he gets people out at the ML level and keeps the other team from scoring and can he help his team win games. Again, a coaching decision, not a front office one.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:04 am

ironmike wrote:Tony but there is a right way. It's called winning games. Win as many as possible. That is the sole job of a MLB organization. The only real spotlight is between the white lines at Progressive Field.

Trades and promotions should only be judged by the amount of games teams win due to the additions or subtractions, not by individual performances. Play one game at a time, one series at a time, one season at a time. The goal out of spring training EVERY year should be to win a championship.

Great trade by Antonelli to acquire Jimenez, it took balls. They have a few other area of concerns going into 2012 but with a proactive approach as demonstrated so far by Antonelli they have a very good chance of improving over the off-season.

Balance out the minor league system. Right now we could have a shortage of position players for the next wave. Use the minor league system to promote and trade for players so the ML team improves and wins games at the ML level.

The "current wave" of position players include the names:

Lonnie Chisenhall
Jason Kipnis
Carlos Santana
Michael Brantley
Matt LaPorta
Lou Marson
Jason Donald
Cord Phelps
Ezequiel Carrera

with Brantley, Chisenhall, Kipnis, LaPorta and Santana considered the starters at their current positions. None of these players have more than three years service time and all are considered part of the "young core" or wave of position players..

The next "wave" of position players and a projected/possible arrival date may include:

Levon Washington (OF) 2014
Tony Wolters (MI-SS) 2013
Chun-hsui Chen (C) 2013
Beau Mills (1B) 2013
Thomas Neal (OF) 2012
Francisco Lindor (SS) 2015
Bryson Miles (OF) 2015

So, three OF'ers, two M-IF'ers, one C-IF'ers and at least one C make up the "balance" of the next wave that should be arriving over the next season to four seasons. That, imho, encompasses a pretty good balance.. both current as well as on the way. There are several other players who have a chance to be considered part of the next wave. Who they are, where they're at, etc.. will become evident as instructs, AWL, DWL, VWL..etc.. all play out starting in the next few weeks. The real strength of the Indians minor league system is the depth of pitching.. starting at the lowest levels of the minors all the way through Governor's Cup winner AAA Columbus.

Good luck to the Clippers tonight.. !!
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:08 am

ironmike wrote:Forgot to mention. How does one know if Pomeranz was ready? Simple answer if he gets people out at the ML level and keeps the other team from scoring and can he help his team win games. Again, a coaching decision, not a front office one.


A front office decisions to hold a player back.. i.e. not being put onto the 40 man roster..is a business decision. That full extra year of team control may almost always is vastly more important than the two or three starts a pitcher might make late in the ML season (i.e. the proverbial cuppa coffee). Not now, of course, but in five or six years... and who knows what's going to be happening then..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby ironmike » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:13 pm

GeronimoSon ... at the expense of winning?

Perhaps that is the reason we are in the lower tier of attendance the past 10 years?

The emphasis, all of it, needs to be on winning.

The average fan won't wait for a two year window and suffer through 5 bad years to reach the window. Get the best scouts, draft well, but win and keep the momentum going. So a Pomeranz leaves a year early, it is the reality of the business of baseball. You trade him for prospects but keep an eye on winning at all times. Use these young players as quick as possible, provided the coaching staff feels they are ready. Look at the Tigers pitching staff, they bring their young pitchers up quickly, Leake in Cincinnati.

WIN at all costs is the only way the Indians will build back up and keep a loyal fan base.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby Edible14 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:23 pm

ironmike wrote:GeronimoSon ... at the expense of winning?

Perhaps that is the reason we are in the lower tier of attendance the past 10 years?

The emphasis, all of it, needs to be on winning.


Arguably, holding a guy back does put the emphasis on winning. It's way more valuable to have a guy during his prime years than simply getting him "experience" during his early twenties. One clearly produces more wins than the other.

Pomeranz, if he is never sent back down to the majors, will be a free agent right after his 28 year old season. That's right in the prime of a pitcher's career. What wins more games... having a 22/23 year old Pom this year and the first half of next year, or having an extra year of Drew Pomeranz at the age of 29?

Oh, and it's worth noting that right now, the Rox aren't a playoff team, so the wins now don't amount to much. Nobody cares if their team finishes with 75 wins instead of 70. They're still not in the playoffs by a long shot. However, an extra few wins during a contending year is BIG. It's just that one strategy only focuses on winning NOW, whereas holding a guy back focuses on winning over time.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:54 pm

GeronimoSon ... at the expense of winning?

Perhaps that is the reason we are in the lower tier of attendance the past 10 years?

The emphasis, all of it, needs to be on winning.


At the expense of not losing a pitcher during the most productive part of his career.. i.e.. from the time he's 26/27 to the time he's 30/31. Even if you can get two of those years.. that's a good thing.. It took CC six long years to become an ACE.. he's one now, no one questions that.. If the indians hadn't signed him to his extension (that covered his arb years and two FA years).. he would have been a FA sooner.. and GONE sooner..

The lower attendance.. is "the chicken & the egg" thing.. to win, you need good players.. to get good players, you need to win.... There is no lack of emphasis on winning, either implied or directly.. at any time.. suggesting that a player be held to maximize his most productive years is an emphasis on winning...
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby A.Zajac » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:21 am

Pomeranz tonight:

2 IP, 7 H, 6 ER/R, BB, 3 K.

White two nights ago:

4.2 IP, 6 H, 5 ER/R, 6 K.
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby GeronimoSon » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:12 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Pomeranz tonight:

2 IP, 7 H, 6 ER/R, BB, 3 K.

White two nights ago:

4.2 IP, 6 H, 5 ER/R, 6 K.


Neither appears to be making progress toward becoming FOR/MOR ML SP's.. The folks in Denver are "less" than impressed. Still waaaaaaaaaay too small of a sample size to come to ANY conclusions.. though..
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby jellis » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:40 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
GeronimoSon ... at the expense of winning?

Perhaps that is the reason we are in the lower tier of attendance the past 10 years?

The emphasis, all of it, needs to be on winning.


At the expense of not losing a pitcher during the most productive part of his career.. i.e.. from the time he's 26/27 to the time he's 30/31. Even if you can get two of those years.. that's a good thing.. It took CC six long years to become an ACE.. he's one now, no one questions that.. If the indians hadn't signed him to his extension (that covered his arb years and two FA years).. he would have been a FA sooner.. and GONE sooner..

The lower attendance.. is "the chicken & the egg" thing.. to win, you need good players.. to get good players, you need to win.... There is no lack of emphasis on winning, either implied or directly.. at any time.. suggesting that a player be held to maximize his most productive years is an emphasis on winning...


We don't often agree but your right on here, I think you could argue we only had 2 years of ace CC, this is why I was fine with the deal. I mean like at Kershaw in LA for a pitcher that took time, few pitchers have a Lincuem instant break through
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:49 pm

OXFORD, Miss. -- Colorado Rockies pitcher Drew Pomeranz was arrested early Friday morning, accused of disturbing the peace in Oxford, Miss.

Oxford police arrested Pomeranz at 1:25 a.m. local time.; he was released on a cash bond at 4:40 a.m. Pomeranz was listed in jail documents by his first name Thomas.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/71013 ... ississippi
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby jellis » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:54 pm

saw that, time will tell what its about but not something you want to see in a top spec
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:03 pm

I find it interesting that no news has come out yet on what exactly Pomeranz did to "disturb the peace" and get arrested. I can come to a logical assumption that he was partying hard on campus, got drunk and belligerent, and did something that the cops got called for. Will be interesting to see what he did and what happened....
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Re: Pomeranz out for the season

Postby jellis » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:06 pm

TonyIPI wrote:I find it interesting that no news has come out yet on what exactly Pomeranz did to "disturb the peace" and get arrested. I can come to a logical assumption that he was partying hard on campus, got drunk and belligerent, and did something that the cops got called for. Will be interesting to see what he did and what happened....



He didnt even have to do anything, my friend once got a disturbing the peace for being passed out drunk in the middle of the oval at OSU. Hope its nothing major, I wish no ill will on the guy
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