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Whose number one, Whose top ten

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby jellis » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:57 pm

I have been thinking about this since the deal, rules are as such you can only do signed players at this point, you can make a note of where others would slot. I mean call me crazy but after trades, injuries, and promotion unless other players sign I think Wolters is currently number one in the system
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:24 pm

jellis wrote:I have been thinking about this since the deal, rules are as such you can only do signed players at this point, you can make a note of where others would slot. I mean call me crazy but after trades, injuries, and promotion unless other players sign I think Wolters is currently number one in the system


I have to agree, Wolters is my new #1. Top ten I won't do.. but top few would be...

Wolters
Lindor
Howard
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:51 pm

I don't have a top ten, but I do have ten top and they are:
(in no particular order, not including unsigned)

Jesus Aguilar
Luigi Rodriguez
LeVon Washington
Tony Wolters
CC Lee
Jake Sisco
Chun Chen
Bryson Myles
Jordan Smith
Felix Sterling
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Chip Davis » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:06 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
jellis wrote:I have been thinking about this since the deal, rules are as such you can only do signed players at this point, you can make a note of where others would slot. I mean call me crazy but after trades, injuries, and promotion unless other players sign I think Wolters is currently number one in the system


I have to agree, Wolters is my new #1. Top ten I won't do.. but top few would be...

Wolters
Lindor
Howard


I wonder whe the Tribe would have taken in the 1st round if they could have forseen the trade for Jiminez?
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:57 pm

Dillon Howard was ranked as high as 18 best player according to some sites I read. Dillon Peters was a first rd talent who could sign (I think Tribe gets it done now) and Francisco Lindor was ranked 1 overall by some and 2 overall by others and is only 17 until November. All these guys have to be signed and potentially Kramer, Sparks, Brady, Merritt, Pitts could be signed and could make a splash into the rankings.

TOP 10 PROSPECTS
1. Tony Wolters-SS
2. Levon Washington-OF
3. Scott Barnes-LHP
4. Zach McAllister-RHP
5. Jesus Aguilar-1b
6. Chun Chen-C
7. Rob Bryson-RHP
8. CC Lee-RHP
9. Luigi Rodriguez-OF
10. Bryce Stowell-RHP

That's 3 relief pitchers in the top 10. Which I consider crazy, should be maybe one good one and I left off Zach Putnam who I am a big fan of. Bryson Myles was also a consideration although small Luigi Rodriguez looks the type that could be a gm changer, some guys aren't big but show up big.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:07 pm

TOP 10 PROSPECTS
(WITH POTENTIAL SIGNINGS)

1. Tony Wolters-SS
2. Francisco Lindor-SS
3. Dillon Howard-RHP
4. Levon Washington-OF
5. Scott Barnes-LHP
6. Zach McAllister-RHP
7. Jesus Aguilar-1B
8. Chun Chen-C
9. Rob Bryson-RHP
10. CC Lee-RHP

Where do we rate newly acq. Thomas Neal-OF from SF for OCabrera, he was 7 in SF system?
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby go_tribe » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:00 pm

1. Lindor
2. Wolters
3. Howard
4. Knapp
5. Barnes
6. Washington
7. Lee
8. Aguilar
9. Chen
10. L. Rodriguez
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:20 pm

I know picking Washington at 2 is high (4 if Lindor and Howard sign) and Id agree with anyone who thinks so. Washington however is playing at probably 80% IMO and recently been sidelined with dehydration. BTW thats not uncommon (see Michael Brantley) and shows he (and Tribe) needs to take care of his body, with the extreme heat. Not a good yr for him statistically and looked a bit rusty at times. Washington does flash great potential. He lacks an arm but speed on the bases and with his bat adds excitability to his game. If this kid can get healthy and get it together he can be a game changer. I rank him solely on the flashes of brilliance he has shown not the stats he has put up. Next yr it is essential to him and the system that he come back 100% and healthy. I expect big things from this kid and hope and pray Im right. :good:
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:26 pm

Looking at people's lists, it's pretty clear that the Indians farm system now sucks...BAD. I don't know a ton about what other teams' systems look like, but it ain't a stretch to say this farm system MIGHT be the worst in MLB. If it's not, it's real close to worst. That's a function of top guys graduating or being traded, so it's not a bad thing. Maybe 1 top 100 prospect in this system and that'd be Lindor, but that is it.

I'm a prospect guy and will still follow these guys closely, but the spotlight is now on the major league team and that is an exciting thing! This year might not be Cleveland's year, but the next couple years should be exciting.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:37 pm

Very early for this, but without much thought I say:

1. Wolters
2. Lindor
3. Howard
4. Barnes
5. McAllister
6. Phelps
7. Knapp
8. Sterling
9. Lee
10. Aguilar
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:38 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Looking at people's lists, it's pretty clear that the Indians farm system now sucks...BAD. I don't know a ton about what other teams' systems look like, but it ain't a stretch to say this farm system MIGHT be the worst in MLB. If it's not, it's real close to worst. That's a function of top guys graduating or being traded, so it's not a bad thing.

I'm a prospect guy and will still follow these guys closely, but the spotlight is now on the major league team and that is an exciting thing! This year might not be Cleveland's year, but the next couple years should be exciting.


You're exaggerating quite a bit. The Indians still have the best minor league bullpen prospects in all of baseball, I think that disqualifies them from having the worst farm system. Just because the talent is young, doesn't mean that it's the worst in baseball. You really should look at other teams' systems more often.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:43 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Looking at people's lists, it's pretty clear that the Indians farm system now sucks...BAD. I don't know a ton about what other teams' systems look like, but it ain't a stretch to say this farm system MIGHT be the worst in MLB. If it's not, it's real close to worst. That's a function of top guys graduating or being traded, so it's not a bad thing.

I'm a prospect guy and will still follow these guys closely, but the spotlight is now on the major league team and that is an exciting thing! This year might not be Cleveland's year, but the next couple years should be exciting.


You're exaggerating quite a bit. The Indians still have the best minor league bullpen prospects in all of baseball, I think that disqualifies them from having the worst farm system. Just because the talent is young, doesn't mean that it's the worst in baseball. You really should look at other teams' systems more often.


I'm not exaggerating at all. This system is very thin. Guarantee its a bottom 5 overall system at the end of the year, but it is what it is. That's what happens when the top 4-5 guys are no longer in the system.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:52 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Looking at people's lists, it's pretty clear that the Indians farm system now sucks...BAD. I don't know a ton about what other teams' systems look like, but it ain't a stretch to say this farm system MIGHT be the worst in MLB. If it's not, it's real close to worst. That's a function of top guys graduating or being traded, so it's not a bad thing.

I'm a prospect guy and will still follow these guys closely, but the spotlight is now on the major league team and that is an exciting thing! This year might not be Cleveland's year, but the next couple years should be exciting.


You're exaggerating quite a bit. The Indians still have the best minor league bullpen prospects in all of baseball, I think that disqualifies them from having the worst farm system. Just because the talent is young, doesn't mean that it's the worst in baseball. You really should look at other teams' systems more often.


I'm not exaggerating at all. This system is very thin. Guarantee its a bottom 5 overall system at the end of the year, but it is what it is. That's what happens when the top 4-5 guys are no longer in the system.


i disagree that you can guarantee it's bottom 5 at the end of the year. Defintiely going to depend on who we sign. If we get Lindor, Howard, and Peters signed then we could still be in the 18-20 range.

Definitely going to see a big drop though. Agree there. Dont' think bullpen arms will do much for a system.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:07 pm

Hermie13 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Looking at people's lists, it's pretty clear that the Indians farm system now sucks...BAD. I don't know a ton about what other teams' systems look like, but it ain't a stretch to say this farm system MIGHT be the worst in MLB. If it's not, it's real close to worst. That's a function of top guys graduating or being traded, so it's not a bad thing.

I'm a prospect guy and will still follow these guys closely, but the spotlight is now on the major league team and that is an exciting thing! This year might not be Cleveland's year, but the next couple years should be exciting.


You're exaggerating quite a bit. The Indians still have the best minor league bullpen prospects in all of baseball, I think that disqualifies them from having the worst farm system. Just because the talent is young, doesn't mean that it's the worst in baseball. You really should look at other teams' systems more often.


I'm not exaggerating at all. This system is very thin. Guarantee its a bottom 5 overall system at the end of the year, but it is what it is. That's what happens when the top 4-5 guys are no longer in the system.


i disagree that you can guarantee it's bottom 5 at the end of the year. Defintiely going to depend on who we sign. If we get Lindor, Howard, and Peters signed then we could still be in the 18-20 range.

Definitely going to see a big drop though. Agree there. Dont' think bullpen arms will do much for a system.


I'm assuming Lindor and Howard sign. The thing is, all other teams have draft prospects they are signing, too. Peters is a marginal talent and signing him has little impact. Lindor is a good talent and Howard is good, too, but there isn't an impact talent in this system anywhere close to the majors (maybe CC Lee). Hey look, I'm an Indians fan and want them to do well, but I'm just preparing you for when Cleveland only has 1 top 100 prospect (or none), which would be Lindor sneaking in at 80-100. Wolters is a nice prospect but no way is he making BA's top 100 list this off-season. Too young, tools aren't plus and his performance hasn't been all that spectacular thus far.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:17 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:I'm assuming Lindor and Howard sign. The thing is, all other teams have draft prospects they are signing, too. Peters is a marginal talent and signing him has little impact. Lindor is a good talent and Howard is good, too, but there isn't an impact talent in this system anywhere close to the majors (maybe CC Lee). Hey look, I'm an Indians fan and want them to do well, but I'm just preparing you for when Cleveland only has 1 top 100 prospect (or none), which would be Lindor sneaking in at 80-100. Wolters is a nice prospect but NO WAY is he making BA's top 100 list this off-season.


I don't disagree with you....but I dont' think the fact that most of our talent will be in the lower levels will keep us from being in the late teens/early 20s. Yes, all teams have draft picks coming, but on paper the Tribe had a very solid draft, where it looks like they'll go over slot. While I am with you on Peters (not as big a fan), Baseball America did have him rated very high, so if signed, I'm guessing they'll rank him pretty high in the Tribe system and will still like him, though suppose maybe their opinion has changed.

Suppose it depends on what source you're looking at too. I tihnk BA will have a couple guys top 100 (Lindor, possibly Howard, and even a bullpen arm or two). Not a big deal either way where we are ranked though.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:24 pm

Im not trying to trash the Indians. The fact that their system is so thin right now is a sign of strength. Chisenhall and Kipnis could still be in Triple-A b/c they were performing poorly in the first few months and our farm system would be ranked more highly. Instead, both have done well and are now in the majors. Bottom line is the Indians have a good crop of young talent and it's all concentrated toward the major league team right now, which is good.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby go_tribe » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:44 pm

True the upper level impact guys are either in cleveland or gone, but honestly looking at our lower levels, I can't remember ever having this many potential studs at one time. Our middle infield is absolutely LOADED, and we have a ton of speed and athleticism that will be ready to contribute by the time we start losing Acab, Choo etc....

I know we wont have a high ranking in the books this year, but who cares? By this time next year we could have a top 5 ranked system again.

We all love our prospects and our lists and depth, but just because our top 4 guys aren't prospects after this year doesn't mean our system sucks.

And I hope Tony just forgot to throw Washington on his quick top 10 list, has he really dropped that far already?
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby MadThinker88 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:46 pm

While I realize this might be biased thinking on my part, I do realize the farm system is weaker today then it was at the start of July 20th. Most people ranked the Tribe system at the start of the season in the top half of all teams.

After the 2011 draft (many signings still pending), trades, promotions, and some players stepping up and others underperforming or having been injured, I think the system would still be ranked been 16th & 20th overall.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:13 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Im not trying to trash the Indians. The fact that their system is so thin right now is a sign of strength. Chisenhall and Kipnis could still be in Triple-A b/c they were performing poorly in the first few months and our farm system would be ranked more highly. Instead, both have done well and are now in the majors. Bottom line is the Indians have a good crop of young talent and it's all concentrated toward the major league team right now, which is good.


O I know you're not trashing the Tribe. I simply just disagree a bit on where they'll rank. Like I said, really not a huge deal where BA or BP rank us. Obviously have the players we have, hopefully they develop. :drinks:
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:25 pm

A lot of overreacting on the Indians farm system ranking right now. Even before the trade, all of White, Kipnis, and CHiz were likely not to be ranked next year because of losing rookie status. I dont think people were fretting that....now suddenly everyone is because we lose the only 2012 ranked guy and likely #1 guy Pomeranz?

Indians have a very deep system. Yes, the system lacks the "star" guys, but this usually changes from year to year anyway for farm systems. I think next year will be much like the farm system after 2003 when we graduated a lot of guys. Also figure it to be a lot of like 2008 when the system was questionable in the Top 10...a reshuffling year. Wont be great, but wont be bad either. I'd bet that after they sign guys, in the end they will still be a Top 15-18 system at worst.

One thing is they have A LOT of young talent in the lower levels. Next season will be fun to watch in Kinston and Lake COunty as guys emerge and (hopefully) the new stars come forth. Indians could have the likes of Lindor, Wolters, Howard, Washington, Aguilar, Sterling, L-Rod, Knapp, etc all in Single-A.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:56 pm

Knapp could the linchpin IMO, IF he comes back healthy it doesn't hurt the Tribe as bad to move these guys for Jimenez. He's a huge key IMO, hopefully he shows why the Tribe wanted him here in the Lee deal. If Knapp can complete the season on limited innings healthy it would be a great boost.

Personally I think the tribe could see guys like Gio Soto, Clayton Cook and Mike Rayl really begin to blossom into MOR type arms. Felix Sterling could blow all this up with his high upside and guys like Luis Lugo and Anderson Polanco could begin an upward ascension. Never really know a kid like Trey Haley could figure things out and become that clear cut 1 type prospect the Tribe even seemed to lack with the big 4. Will be an interesting off season as well to see where CBA ends up with pk slots, world draft and possible comp pk changes as well.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Chip Davis » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:38 am

OhioBaseball wrote:I'm not exaggerating at all. This system is very thin. Guarantee its a bottom 5 overall system at the end of the year, but it is what it is. That's what happens when the top 4-5 guys are no longer in the system.


You are only considering the losses of White and Pomeranz plus the graduation of Chisenhall and Kipnis. What you are not taking into consideration is the performances of Barnes, McCallister, Urshela, Bellows, Rayl, Hagadone, Sterling and others. It is still a pitching rich system, especially if Howard and Co. sign, but there are some nice young IF players that have alot of projection in the lower levels, 3b and SS in particular. With that said the system severely lacks the big OF bat and that needs to be focused upon in future drafts and trades. The addition of Neal is a step in the right direction and a great move on Antonetti's part.

Overall the minors took a big hit with the loss of White, Pomeranz, Chisenhall, and Kipnis, but had a good draft and some good development of current players. Definately not a bottom 5 system, probably in the 10-15 range. Rondon and Perez' returns will bolster the system too, and if knapp, Weglarz, Washington, and De La Cruz can get back to some sort of normallity(I think atleast 2 of them will) then we're almost back to where we started.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:54 am

I'm just being objective. I've seen good prospects and know what they look like. The Indians system has been gutted of most of them. Hey look, I know this is a Cleveland Indians minor league prospect site -- it's participants are inherently going to be optimistic by default. The truth is farm systems rankings aren't important, but let's not kid ourselves.

Top 100 prospect list. There are 30 teams. Average teams will have 3 prospects on the list. Cleveland undoubtedly will not have a top 50 guy on that list, but may get Francisco Lindor in the top 100. Slight chance CC Lee sneaks in, but likely not. You do the math.

I agree there are some younger prospects. The Indians have a good group of them. There are some green chutes in the system. I just don't see the system providing impact talent in the next couple years outside of some middle relief guys. The young talent of this organization is in the major leagues now and that shows the minor league system has been successful, which is good!
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:41 am

Tribe's farm system has to rank in the lower 3rd now. How could it not? You take the top four guys from ANY system & it will take a huge hit. Position guys I like Chen & Wolters & Aguilar & Monsalve & Phelps & Jordan Smith. Not exactly impact guys but good solid specs(so far). Washington & Wegz, especially Wegz have never been healthy. Lindor, Haase, & Embree will help, as would Sparks.

We all know all of the pitchers & Howard if/when signed becomes the most talented SP spec other than maybe Knapp(can't stay healthy) & "Hail Mary" Haley. Anyone else project better than a #3? We have lots of very good relief specs. Bryson & Lee could be successful late inning guys or even closers. Lots of depth there. Draft won't help on the pitching side other than Howard & maybe Sisco. Peters & Tarpley don't look like prospective ML pitchers to me.

Really looking at these guys & calling this a top twenty system doesn't work for me. It's a year to year thing though. Some development & another great draft & we're rolling again.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby petes999 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:15 pm

I look at this this way ....

1) We have no one in the top 50 next year as our 4 top 100 guys in Pom, White, Chis and Kipnis are now gone and no one will touch that level next year except Lindor and Howard. BA had a Q&A saying the top 6 picks would have been in their top 50 mid-season if they could have been signed early but not Lindor. Maybe with more promotions at year-end there is enough openings that Lindor sneaks in. Howard may be in the top 100 as he was around 20th best draft prospect by some.

2) Most of our higher rated prospects like Weglarz, Washington, Gardner (before trade), Hagadone, House, Adams, Chen (first half) ... had down years . I put Hagadone is on this list more for not getting back to the starter rotation - as there was some hope before now giving some to hold out hope like me.

3) Most of our higher productive prospects like Wolters, Luigi, Sterling, Sisco, ... are so low down in rookie/A ball, many will question if those statistics will hold up at the AA level in a year or two.

4) For having such a great farm system (top 7 at beginning of year) before all this, the only teams with a shot at playoffs are who? Columbus and MV? and most of Columbus players have helped out ML team and thus they are going to be limping into the playoffs.

5) The strength of our farm system now is relief pitching which never gets the high recognition of others in the industry ... be honest if we could have subsituted Lee/Stowell and Bryson for Pom (top 3 relievers for 1 starter), we would probably have done it -- if it was 2 of those three -- for sure we would have kept Pom out of the trade - but Col. wouldn't).

6) Even though this doesn't mean anything, none of our players Indians have made it on BA's hot prospect list (I think Luigi made helium list and Sterling was in the team photo one week). Thus, we may have a lot in 100-300 range ... but nothing really to say wow about.

Thus, I see our system is now in the late teens, early twenties ... We are still really deep ... but what did deep get us this year other than giving up our two best prospects--as no one else stood out with Gardner/Adams/ ... all had down years where a GM isn't going to stick out his neck to trade for them.

I thought deep would mean giving up Pom, Phelps, Bryson, Stowell, and a Luigi or someone for that top trade (1 high prospect, 1 low A - steller prospect, a few relievers). In this industry, all that really matters is having that top notch prime steak that GMs and scouts drool over. Who is that now?

Hopefully, Barnes, McAllister, Knapp, Sterling, Rondon are ready to step in 2014 and 2015 when our pitching staff needs reinforcement. Deep may get you this .... but not a FOR starter to replace Masterson/Jimenez/Carmona.

There is hope ... for a prolong run. However, many teams has good young players. A lot of teams have multiple first round picks and sandwitch picks that will overshadow a Wolters and Sterling in the rankings. Yet, we need players to get to AA and do well and not stumble like Gardner/Adams/De La Cruz/Bellows/.... all did.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:00 pm

I don't have time to come up with my own top ten right now... but only one person has Bryson Myles on their list?! :s_dunno
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:15 pm

Bryson Myles is definately an interesting prospect. Great speed, arm and some pop. I thought about him or LRod. Went LRod bc he could be a more explosive player... Not the pop but base stealing ability. Myles, Washington and LRod all share some qualities very athletic and can develop into big play gm changers.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:40 pm

Wasn't there a call for Top 20 Midseason Prospect lists?.. did something ever get done with that..a compilation?.. anyone know?... :dunno:
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby JP_Frost » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:42 pm

Here goes ...

1. Wolters
2. Lindor
3. Barnes
4. Howard
5. Washington
6. Sterling
7. McAllister
8. Aguilar
9. Araujo
10. Soto

Yeah, Knapp out of the top 10. Could easily be number 1 next year, but he has to prove he's healthy first.

Difficult to make a list.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Tondo » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:51 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Wasn't there a call for Top 20 Midseason Prospect lists?.. did something ever get done with that..a compilation?.. anyone know?... :dunno:


Yeah, curious about that too...I submitted my list to MT

My top 15 from there without the top 4 and other graduated players:

1. Weglarz
2. Wolters
3. CC Lee
4. Phelps
5. Soto
6. McAllister
7. Barnes
8. Chen
9. Myles
10. Aguilar
11. Sisco
12. Lowery
13. Burns
14. Monsalve
15. Bryson

That list is 3 weeks old, I would have Wolters at 1 now maybe and probably LuRod would appear somewhere

Still a nice list imho with lots of injury guys coming back and lots of young, high upside guys producing and emerging....we'll be fine
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby criznit2009 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:55 pm

I think now isn't a bad time to do one, I doubt we will lose anymore "top" guys over the waiver-trade period, could be wrong but... Lets wait until the signing deadline is here :good:
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby entertheshoe » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:33 pm

Are there any recent pictures of Luigi Rodriguez? When I google him there are only a couple and I believe they are pretty old. He's a guy who intrigues me quite a bit, I'd like to see what he looks like these days to see if the 5'11 160 is legit or if he's grown into his frame much more.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby petes999 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:27 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Wasn't there a call for Top 20 Midseason Prospect lists?.. did something ever get done with that..a compilation?.. anyone know?... :dunno:


Just some bad timing with Tony's schedule. I e-mailed him a little over a week ago, just when he started ramping up his trade coverage. With draft signings hopefully ramping up in a few days, we will see what happens to the article.

Something similar happened earlier in the year where we sent him an article a week before the draft. I guess Mike and I need to start thinking a bit more around lulls in Tribe news ... luckily, there has been a lot going on this year.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby MadThinker88 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:21 pm

I will try to send out an email to the participants on Tuesday so they can at least see the finished midseason product. -MT
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:42 pm

petes999 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Wasn't there a call for Top 20 Midseason Prospect lists?.. did something ever get done with that..a compilation?.. anyone know?... :dunno:


Just some bad timing with Tony's schedule. I e-mailed him a little over a week ago, just when he started ramping up his trade coverage. With draft signings hopefully ramping up in a few days, we will see what happens to the article.

Something similar happened earlier in the year where we sent him an article a week before the draft. I guess Mike and I need to start thinking a bit more around lulls in Tribe news ... luckily, there has been a lot going on this year.


Tony's schedule?.. I suppose he thinks he's allowed to sleep at night now too.. geeez.. he's getting soft.. :shout:
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Chip Davis » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:41 am

OhioBaseball wrote:I'm just being objective. I've seen good prospects and know what they look like. The Indians system has been gutted of most of them. Hey look, I know this is a Cleveland Indians minor league prospect site -- it's participants are inherently going to be optimistic by default. The truth is farm systems rankings aren't important, but let's not kid ourselves.

Top 100 prospect list. There are 30 teams. Average teams will have 3 prospects on the list. Cleveland undoubtedly will not have a top 50 guy on that list, but may get Francisco Lindor in the top 100. Slight chance CC Lee sneaks in, but likely not. You do the math.

I agree there are some younger prospects. The Indians have a good group of them. There are some green chutes in the system. I just don't see the system providing impact talent in the next couple years outside of some middle relief guys. The young talent of this organization is in the major leagues now and that shows the minor league system has been successful, which is good!


I will say that there probably won't be many in the top 100, but if Lindor gets in then Wolter's has to be. If CC Lee gets in then Bryson and Hagadone should be. The catching trio of Chen, Lavisky, and Lowery will probably have 1 recognized. I personally think that McCallister cracks the top 100 and Barnes would be in the top 50 if he hadn't got injured. You can't base the worth of a farm system solely on the number of players it has in the top 100. Most teams have anywhere from 2-4 in the top 100 and then fall off dramatically with no depth. The Indians have one of the deepest systems in all of baseball and while they might not have but 1 or 2 in the top 100, they have a buttload just outside of it. This is probably the very reason that Antonetti was willing to give White and Pom to Colorado. Their last 3 drafts have been ranked high by most in the industry and that should count for something because the top 100 is mostly projection so maybe they end up with 5 or 6 ranked. Either way it doesn't mean a lot to me because I think it's mostly hype and pedigree that gets the recently drafted players ranked just to disapear in 2 years. I haven't even mentioned some of the tremendously talented Latin signings that have been made.

I'm not looking at this with rose colored glasses as I'm not afraid to tell you that 3 years ago before the draft and the trades the Indians system was shit. Losing White, Pom, Chiz, and Kipnis is a huge blow and will certainly cause the Indians system to fall in the rankings, but it is still a better system than SD, ARI, LAD, SF, CHC, CHW, HOU, DET, MIL, MIN, SEA, NYM, AND BAL'S to name a few. I personally I think that by the time Jimenez, Masterson, Choo, and others are close to free agency that the Indians system will be even better than it was before the loss of the big 4. On top of that it will get even deeper when Jimenez and others are traded.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:59 pm

petes999 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Wasn't there a call for Top 20 Midseason Prospect lists?.. did something ever get done with that..a compilation?.. anyone know?... :dunno:


Just some bad timing with Tony's schedule. I e-mailed him a little over a week ago, just when he started ramping up his trade coverage. With draft signings hopefully ramping up in a few days, we will see what happens to the article.

Something similar happened earlier in the year where we sent him an article a week before the draft. I guess Mike and I need to start thinking a bit more around lulls in Tribe news ... luckily, there has been a lot going on this year.


You guys send out a revised one post deadline and signing date, and I will post mid-late month.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby petes999 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:59 pm

I believe Mike is going to send an e-mail with all the comments from those who submitted rankings to our gallery prospect list. Yet for those others who are interested in our 2-week old outdated gallery rankings (boy how things change quickly as Phelps wouldn't be #1 by default), here it is:

1) Pomeranz, Drew High 1 Low 4 Tony BOY 4 Gallery BOY 4
2) Kipnis, Jason High 1 Low 4 Tony BOY 2 Gallery BOY 2
3) Chisenhall, Lonnie High 1 Low 4 Tony BOY 1 Gallery BOY 1
4) White, Alex High 1 Low 4 Tony BOY 3 Gallery BOY 3
5) Phelps, Cord High 4 Low 15 Tony BOY 9 Gallery BOY 10
6) Barnes, Scott High 5 Low 12 Tony BOY 30 Gallery BOY 17
7) Chen, Chun-Hsiu High 5 Low 13 Tony BOY 20 Gallery BOY 7
8) McAllister, Zach High 6 Low 15 Tony BOY 31 Gallery BOY 30
9) Wolters, Tony High 6 Low 19 Tony BOY 8 Gallery BOY 12
10) Pestano, Vinnie High 5 Low 14 Tony BOY 39 Gallery BOY 24
11) Weglarz, Nick High 5 Low 20 Tony BOY 5 Gallery BOY 6
12) Knapp, Jason High 5 Low 17 Tony BOY 6 Gallery BOY 5
13) Washington, L High 6 Low 19 Tony BOY 7 Gallery BOY 9
14) Lee, Chen-Chang High 7 Low 19 Tony BOY 18 Gallery BOY 42
15) Hagadone, Nick High 7 Low 20 Tony BOY 13 Gallery BOY 11
16) Bryson, Rob High 11 Low 18 Tony BOY 27 Gallery BOY 15
17) Aguilar, Jesus High 7 Low 20 Tony BOY 83 Gallery BOY 41
18) Soto, Giovanni High 10 Low 20 Tony BOY 33 Gallery BOY 28
19) Judy, Josh High 9 Low 20 Tony BOY 25 Gallery BOY 21
20) Carrera, Ezequiel High 12 Low 17 Tony BOY 38 Gallery BOY 56

Honorable Mentions (Received at least 2 top 20 votes, placed in alphabetical order)
Adams, Austin; de la Cruz, Kelvin; Gardner, Joe; House, T.J.; Lowery, Jake; Monslave, Alex; Myles, Bryson; Putnam, Zach; Sisco, Jake; Stowell, Bryce; Urshela, Giovanny
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Chip Davis » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:52 am

1. Barnes (Howard when/if signed)
2. Wolters
3. Hagadone
4. McCallister
5. Sterling (Lindor when/if signed)
6. Rondon
7. House
8. Perez
9. Chen
10. Stowell

Just outside my top ten are Bryson, Adams, C. Lee, Knapp, Phelps, De La Cruz, Washington, Neal, Myles, Aguilar, Rodriguez, Bellows, and Urshela. Not an easy list to make as there is alot of good talent but noone with the hype of someone like Pomeranz. I do expect a few of these kids to "bust out" and become top 100's and maybe a couple top 50's. Howard and Lindor could clime quick with successful 1st years and if Wolters keeps cranking he'll be there before them. If Hagadone returns to being a starter he could skyrocket with his stuff. I don't know what to think of Knapp. If he can stay healthy there is obviously some helium with him.

I would also like to note that an outfield of Myles, Neal, and Washington has a lot of potential at this point. Some will certainly disagree with my ranking of Hagadone, but I have a feeling he will be put back into a rotation soon and his stuff is electric. He just needs to cut down on the walks. Stowell and Bryson are rare finds also, problem with them is that not to many bullpen arms get ranked.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Sol Solis » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:16 pm

While I understand the love going to Wolters, I can't see how you could rank him above Lindor. Sure, Wolters has performed well in a pretty advanced league, and because of his age it is very encouraging to see. However, coming into last years draft, Wolters was seen as just a solid all around player with no real weaknesses to his game. At the SS position that is a very valuable player to have. Lindor though, is supposed to have above average defense, run game, and hit tool, while projecting out to have average power for the position. There's a reason he was taken in the first round and Wolters was taken in the 3rd.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:20 pm

After Drew Pomeranz and Alex White have departed for Colorado, the Indians still have a rather long list of pitching prospects to consider. The top 5 Prospect Pitchers remaining in the Indians system may be:

1. Jason Knapp: Mostly on projection. It appears the shoulder issues will be behind him and he should be able to come into spring training fully healthy and ready to compete.

2. Nick Hagadone: Big lefty that has finally had a full season when he's been healthy. He's being used out of the bullpen currently, going three innings in his last outing. The potential exists for him to come to the spring training in 2012 as a starter, be stretched out as a starter while concurrently being schooled for a spot in the pen. If he continues to show good health and the stuff that made him a target for the Indians FO when VMart was traded to the Red Sox, then all the better..

3. Scotty Barnes: Tall, lanky lefty with an unusual delivery who began his rise to elite prospect status with his efforts in the Arizona Fall League. He followed that performance with an excellent couple of starts in Akron before being promoted to Columbus. In his 16 appearances in Columbus, he continued to impress. He experienced a season ending knee injury and is lost for the remainder of the season, but his performance has not gone unnoticed.

4. Zach McAllister: Has become a quality start machine in the minors. After a mediocre season in 2010, and following his usual pattern, Z-Mac has stepped up his performance in his second season at the AAA level. Z-Mac was brought up for a single start at the MLB level and acquitted himself nicely. He has the makings of a fine middle of the rotation or back of the rotation innings eater at the next level. His downward action on all his pitches make him a pitcher to watch..

5. CC Lee: Now in his second stop during the 2011 season, CC Lee continues with a brilliant ascension through the Indians minor league system. His assortment of pitches, incredible command and tough mental approach to the game portends well for this diminutive young right hander.. The best thing that can be said about CC Lee, he doesn't walk players..If you're on base, it's because you hit your way on.. oh, and he doesn't allow many hits.

There may be some changing of the above, principally, when the "Dillon's" are signed (and Cole Pitts..maybe).. What say you?
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Edible14 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:04 pm

I think you all are vastly undervaluing Rondon. Tommy John surgery is relatively common and easy to come back from. He'll have some initial struggles next year, but I expect that by the end of 2012/beginning of 2013 he may be a legit major league option, and could end up being a big part of the rotation.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:22 pm

Edible14 wrote:I think you all are vastly undervaluing Rondon. Tommy John surgery is relatively common and easy to come back from. He'll have some initial struggles next year, but I expect that by the end of 2012/beginning of 2013 he may be a legit major league option, and could end up being a big part of the rotation.
That would be an ideal situation.. perhaps by then, De La Cruz will also be banging on the door to get a looksie at the ML level.. Either way, there are a LOT of arms in the minors.. but, not a lot of elite arms..which is what Dillon Howard is project to be..and what Jason Knapp and Nick Hagadone were projected to be.. time and good health, along with some of Mr Dolans money should solve these issues... we shall see....
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:07 pm

Edible14 wrote:I think you all are vastly undervaluing Rondon. Tommy John surgery is relatively common and easy to come back from. He'll have some initial struggles next year, but I expect that by the end of 2012/beginning of 2013 he may be a legit major league option, and could end up being a big part of the rotation.


I couldn't agree more. I'd be buying some Rondon stock right now based on how poorly people think of him (apparently). In 2009, he was a 21 year old with some projection doing well in Triple-A. He may end up in the bullpen, but if he physically matures, I wouldn't be shocked to see him consistently 91-95 mph with some run and sink. Could bump it up a notch in the pen if thats where he ends up. Needs the offpseed stuff to be a starter, but it could be there.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Edible14 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:12 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
Edible14 wrote:I think you all are vastly undervaluing Rondon. Tommy John surgery is relatively common and easy to come back from. He'll have some initial struggles next year, but I expect that by the end of 2012/beginning of 2013 he may be a legit major league option, and could end up being a big part of the rotation.
That would be an ideal situation.. perhaps by then, De La Cruz will also be banging on the door to get a looksie at the ML level.. Either way, there are a LOT of arms in the minors.. but, not a lot of elite arms..which is what Dillon Howard is project to be..and what Jason Knapp and Nick Hagadone were projected to be.. time and good health, along with some of Mr Dolans money should solve these issues... we shall see....


There was an article that Tony linked to on Twitter about how "prospect" arms often flame out. Young guys like Peters (18), Knapp (20) and Dillon (19) are essentially lottery tickets in my mind. Knapp and Trey Haley are good examples of that. I suppose that it's perhaps a philosophical difference, but I think I'd rather go with the guys who have at least some track record of professional success. So I'd actually still rate Rondon higher than those guys. Maybe not Dillon, but probably still higher than anyone not already in Akron/Columbus.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby JP_Frost » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:13 pm

I think some of you are undervaluing the fact that Rondon has had major surgery and hasn't pitched for over a year. Sure he has potential, but that is a serious issue and setback.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:24 pm

JP_Frost wrote:I think some of you are undervaluing the fact that Rondon has had major surgery and hasn't pitched for over a year. Sure he has potential, but that is a serious issue and setback.


He was also having a terrible season when he got/was injured. He has a long road back, but with the ejection of Pom and White is still a top priority once healthy.... He is around #10ish (pitching prospects) I think. Could go either way, depending on how injuries affect the way you view players... Definitely not top 5 though.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby OhioBaseball » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:43 pm

JP_Frost wrote:I think some of you are undervaluing the fact that Rondon has had major surgery and hasn't pitched for over a year. Sure he has potential, but that is a serious issue and setback.


Don't think so. As was clearly mentioned by Edible and myself (in a prior post), we fully acknowledge TJ surgery. Guys often come back in good shape from that surgery. It takes 12-18 months which is the range where Rondon is. Rondon was bad in 2010 but had a good track record before that small sample of 30 innings.

There is potential for a setback in any pitching prospect. These guys go under the knife all the time. I don't have the empirical data, but guys with shoulder surgery more often have setbacks than TJ. Success rate is pretty good for TJ surgery. Yeah, it's a setback, but he had the surgery a year ago. Strasburg had the same and he's already back to throwing 95+mph
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Chip Davis » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:21 am

Sol Solis wrote:While I understand the love going to Wolters, I can't see how you could rank him above Lindor. Sure, Wolters has performed well in a pretty advanced league, and because of his age it is very encouraging to see. However, coming into last years draft, Wolters was seen as just a solid all around player with no real weaknesses to his game. At the SS position that is a very valuable player to have. Lindor though, is supposed to have above average defense, run game, and hit tool, while projecting out to have average power for the position. There's a reason he was taken in the first round and Wolters was taken in the 3rd.


It's my personal opinion that Lindor will be lucky to do what Wolters has been doing. Again JMO.
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Re: Whose number one, Whose top ten

Postby Sol Solis » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:21 am

Chip Davis wrote:
It's my personal opinion that Lindor will be lucky to do what Wolters has been doing. Again JMO.


Since I haven't seen either of them play (and I doubt anyone here really has in Lindor's case), I guess my question is more whether this mindset is an indictment on Lindor or praise for Wolters?
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