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Beyond the Fukodome

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Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:36 am

I didn't expect it to be a left-handed leadoff hitter, so I'm surprised. But looking into this guy's numbers, I like what he brings. The question is who did we give up?

He's hitting .273/.374/.369/.742. What jumps out is the .374 OBP. Gotta like that.

Amazingly he has only 13 RBI in 293 at-bats, but he hit leadoff in 265 of those ABs so that explains it. He only has 45 ABs with runners in scoring position, and he's not somebody who's going to drive in a runner on first base.

He's hitting .311/.983 with RISP and .304/.991 with RISP and two out, so his lack of RBI's is clearly due to lack of opportunity. He should get more chances in the AL with no pitcher hitting in the 9th position.

With runners on base he's at .293 with an outstanding OBP of .459. He's no rally killer, that's for sure.

My main concern is he's hitting .321 in Wrigley and .214 on the road. How well is he going to hit in unfamiliar AL parks?

Does he hit leadoff for the Tribe? I assume it will be something like this:

Fuku
Brantley
ACab
Pronk
Santana
LaPorta Potty
Kipnis
Chiz
Zeke
Last edited by Prosecutor on Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Beyond the Fukudome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:40 am

also remember in the NL he bats behind the pitcher which means more innings leading off. This is just 1 step....there had better be more to come :aggressive:
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:56 am

10:30am: Hoynes tweets that the Indians are paying $775K of Fukudome's remaining salary, which would leave about $3.9MM for the Cubs.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby osueddy » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:59 am

Any idea yet who the two prospects are going to be?
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby smt1192 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:59 am

osueddy wrote:Any idea yet who the two prospects are going to be?


Carlton Smith and Abner Abreu
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:24 pm

I'd personally hit him behind Brantley. Yeah Brantley has shown more pop and Dome has a better OBP, but as shown Fuk has hit well with men on base. He's a poor man's Brian Giles (ie, no power) and always liked him in the 2-hole.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Getting Fukodome for Smith and Abner Abreau is fine with me. While it was fun watching Abreau be the only decent hitting prospect in Kinston, he's still a good 3 years away from contributing and even then he strikes out way too much. Trading him right now is selling high and I like how little Fukodome strikes out. His L/R splits are very similar too.

Not a bad start.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:32 pm

Hermie13 wrote:I'd personally hit him behind Brantley. Yeah Brantley has shown more pop and Dome has a better OBP, but as shown Fuk has hit well with men on base. He's a poor man's Brian Giles (ie, no power) and always liked him in the 2-hole.


Brantley strikes out less than Fukudome.....Which I would think would make MB a better Hit-and-Run candidate at the plate which I like in the 2-hole.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:32 pm

Done deal...Fukudome for Abner and C.Smith, Buck DFA
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:40 pm

smt1192 wrote:
osueddy wrote:Any idea yet who the two prospects are going to be?


Carlton Smith and Abner Abreu


Carlton Smith is fine. Abner... I'm sure a few people here won't be happy. I think he's probably a lottery ticket for the Cubs, which is really the best they could expect to get. There's still a lot of issues with him and he's still quite a ways away from getting in the show. Plus, he's a guy that will be Rule V eligible after this year, meaning that he's getting close to "decision time" (not saying he'd have to be protected after this year, but next year he would).

Still has to be a 40 man move for this. I'm guessing Buck just gets DFA'd. Maybe Kluber if they're down on him enough.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:44 pm

daingean wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:I'd personally hit him behind Brantley. Yeah Brantley has shown more pop and Dome has a better OBP, but as shown Fuk has hit well with men on base. He's a poor man's Brian Giles (ie, no power) and always liked him in the 2-hole.


Brantley strikes out less than Fukudome.....Which I would think would make MB a better Hit-and-Run candidate at the plate which I like in the 2-hole.


Brantley also leads the team in hitting into double plays....

I can understand both sides of the arguement here, and really either way is fine by me.

A 'crazier' idea could be to drop Brantley down to 6th again and hit Zeke leadoff and Dome 2nd. Doubt that's how they play it though.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:53 pm

Don't really understand his contract situation. Anyone wanna clear that up?
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:53 pm

Fuku (you to buddy...) will hit 2nd i think, behind Brantley. Its also possible he hits lower in the order as 3 LH hitters in a row at 9,1,2 isn't ideal. Have to think another deal HAS to happen soon.... Perhaps involving any # of our LH MLers possibly.... As for his nick name - (Acab, kip, Chiz etc...) I vote for Kos - as Fuk, Fuku- I guess Fuku is ok are not that pretty to say...
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:57 pm

ChadS17 wrote:Don't really understand his contract situation. Anyone wanna clear that up?


We're paying pretty much nothing for him (775k) and he's a rental until the end of the year. Cannot be offered arbitration so we get no compensation.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:00 pm

criznit2009 wrote:Fuku (you to buddy...) will hit 2nd i think, behind Brantley. Its also possible he hits lower in the order as 3 LH hitters in a row at 9,1,2 isn't ideal. Have to think another deal HAS to happen soon.... Perhaps involving any # of our LH MLers possibly.... As for his nick name - (Acab, kip, Chiz etc...) I vote for Kos - as Fuk, Fuku- I guess Fuku is ok are not that pretty to say...


He was called Dome in Japan.....though I recall him saying he hated that nickname. I'm still calling him that though :drinks:
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:16 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
ChadS17 wrote:Don't really understand his contract situation. Anyone wanna clear that up?


We're paying pretty much nothing for him (775k) and he's a rental until the end of the year. Cannot be offered arbitration so we get no compensation.


I mean the contract extension by November 14th.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:28 pm

This is screaming precursor to me. Anyone else get the same feeling?
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:29 pm

Abreu is hitting .352/1.236 in July, and that's over 71 AB's so we're not talking about a 10-game hot streak. Maybe something finally clicked. He has a huge upside. No question the Indians are taking a risk. I'd much rather them risk a pitcher than a five-tool guy like this, but obviously this is the guy the Cubs insisted on.

Considering we're getting a two-month rental on a slap hitter batting .273, and only .218 outside of Wrigley Field, I'm not sure I like it. But after watching Seattle get burned on the Choo and Asdrubal trades, and the Rangers get burned on the Hafner trade, and the Expos get burned on the Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips trade, I never like seeing the Indians trade a prospect. OTOH, highly rated prospects like Andy Marte and Max Ramirez have flamed out after being traded, so you never know.

I think watching the Tribe score 7 runs (6 earned) in the last 5 games pushed Antonetti over the edge.

Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Abreu is hitting .352/1.236 in July, and that's over 71 AB's so we're not talking about a 10-game hot streak. Maybe something finally clicked. He has a huge upside. No question the Indians are taking a risk. I'd much rather them risk a pitcher than a five-tool guy like this, but obviously this is the guy the Cubs insisted on.

Considering we're getting a two-month rental on a slap hitter batting .273, and only .218 outside of Wrigley Field, I'm not sure I like it. But after watching Seattle get burned on the Choo and Asdrubal trades, and the Rangers get burned on the Hafner trade, and the Expos get burned on the Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips trade, I never like seeing the Indians trade a prospect. OTOH, highly rated prospects like Andy Marte and Max Ramirez have flamed out after being traded, so you never know.

I think watching the Tribe score 7 runs (6 earned) in the last 5 games pushed Antonetti over the edge.

Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.


It does mean that when Choo/Sizemore come back we'll have 4 lefty outfielders and Ez Carrera would make a 5th lefty outfielder. COULD be a precursor (emphasis on could).
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:39 pm

Solid first salvo (more moves expected).

Indians get a much needed top of order bat who hits righties well, gets on base, draws walks, works counts, and consistently puts the bat on the ball. Him in the lineup over a Buck right now is a significant upgrade in approach alone. The fact the Indians are paying him little and gave up little in prospects makes it a no brainer "why not?" kind of deal, especially when they can get a draft pick for him in the offseason. According to Antonetti he would be a Type B and they would get compensation if they offer arbitration and he declines.

Sad to see Abreu go as I love his tools. His recent hot streak came at a great time and it inflated his value. Really has struggled facing better pitching in High-A, and while I would still consider him a top 20-30 guy on tools alone, I am not a believer he ever gets to the show. Smith is a throw in.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:46 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Solid first salvo (more moves expected).

Indians get a much needed top of order bat who hits righties well, gets on base, draws walks, works counts, and consistently puts the bat on the ball. Him in the lineup over a Buck right now is a significant upgrade in approach alone. The fact the Indians are paying him little and gave up little in prospects makes it a no brainer "why not?" kind of deal, especially when they can get a draft pick for him in the offseason. According to Antonetti he would be a Type B and they would get compensation if they offer arbitration and he declines.

Sad to see Abreu go as I love his tools. His recent hot streak came at a great time and it inflated his value. Really has struggled facing better pitching in High-A, and while I would still consider him a top 20-30 guy on tools alone, I am not a believer he ever gets to the show. Smith is a throw in.


Antonetti said that? I'm sure he would know better, but in an article at MLBtraderumors.com it says "He cannot be offered arbitration after the season, so draft pick compensation is not a factor. "

If true that we get compensation, then I love this move. Heck, I think there's a good chance that we can get a better outfielder who gets to the majors before Abreu with that type B pick.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:51 pm

I don't think he we get any compensation from what I have seen. Also, have to think 100% that Grady isn't in the "future" plans anymore unless he reworks his contract...
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:57 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.


To me he seems very similar to Brantley and Carrera. I know his numbers are better at the moment but he really isn't that different of a player, just more experience. What happens if/when Choo returns in 3-4 weeks? I would be surprised if Brantley or Carrera isn't part of a package sent out. Who hits leadoff and plays centerfield for the Padres?
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:06 pm

criznit2009 wrote:I don't think he we get any compensation from what I have seen. Also, have to think 100% that Grady isn't in the "future" plans anymore unless he reworks his contract...


100% I don't think so. Fukudome is a rental, I think the odds are better of just picking up Grady's contract than they are of resigning Fukudome on an open market after he had us on his no-trade list prior to waiving it.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:15 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:I don't think he we get any compensation from what I have seen. Also, have to think 100% that Grady isn't in the "future" plans anymore unless he reworks his contract...


100% I don't think so. Fukudome is a rental, I think the odds are better of just picking up Grady's contract than they are of resigning Fukudome on an open market after he had us on his no-trade list prior to waiving it.


Ha. If you pick up Gradys option right now - that would be a tremendously poor decision.. If you can get him back for cheaper (quite possible if he isn't to miffed by getting cut out) then yes but right now the tribe flat out 100% does NOT pick up his option for next year.... Giving Dome a bit of a looksie here, would be a good 4th OFer - but as far as an everyday guy going forward (2012)- we don't need 2 Brantleys in the line-up at the same time most days IMO.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:24 pm

TonyIPI wrote: According to Antonetti he would be a Type B and they would get compensation if they offer arbitration and he declines.


While that'd be great, why should we offer him arby? He would accept and make way too much for his production...only way we "risk" doing this is Fukudome plays lights out, gets us to the POs and is clutch there...THEN maybe some other team would sign him away, netting us good draft comp...whatever, I'm ok with the trade rental or not
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby ChadS17 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Chip Davis wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.


To me he seems very similar to Brantley and Carrera. I know his numbers are better at the moment but he really isn't that different of a player, just more experience. What happens if/when Choo returns in 3-4 weeks? I would be surprised if Brantley or Carrera isn't part of a package sent out. Who hits leadoff and plays centerfield for the Padres?


Brantley for Ludwick is just not happening, Carrera, ehh, maybe.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby JayAre » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:27 pm

Chip Davis wrote:This is screaming precursor to me. Anyone else get the same feeling?


Loading up on Japanese players to convince Kuroda to OK a deal to Cleveland.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby hoof32 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:28 pm

Ludwick, ugh. We Don't Need Another Hero.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Prosecutor » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:33 pm

Chip Davis wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.


To me he seems very similar to Brantley and Carrera. I know his numbers are better at the moment but he really isn't that different of a player, just more experience. What happens if/when Choo returns in 3-4 weeks? I would be surprised if Brantley or Carrera isn't part of a package sent out. Who hits leadoff and plays centerfield for the Padres?


There's no way the Indians trade Brantley, who is young, talented, cheap, and under club control for several more years just because they added a 34-year-old right fielder who will be a free agent at the end of the year.

If Sizemore is let go they might need Brantley to play center next year, unless Zeke can prove he's an everyday major league centerfielder.

As for trading Zeke, I don't think he's established much trade value at this point. Keep in mind we got him last year in exchange for half of Russell Branyan.

Would the Tribe trade for a Ludwick or Willingham at this point, giving them an OF of Ludwick/Willy in left, Brantley in center, and Fuko in right with Zeke as the #4? Then when Grady and Choo are ready in late Aug or Sep, they get rid of Kearns and Zeke, leaving Ludwick and Fuko as the 4th and 5th outfielders behind Grady, Choo, and Brantley? That's five legitimate starting OFs. I don't see a trade for another outfielder. It looks like the cost of Ludwick and Willingham was too high and they settled on Fuko.

Will they trade for a starter after the recent impressive performances of Carmona and Huff? The rotation is looking pretty solid with Masterson, Carrasco, Tomlin, Carmona and Huff. Who could they trade for that would significantly upgrade one of those starters without costing a top prospect? Nobody, I'll bet.

They might deal for the Rockies catcher, Iannetta, if they want to bench LaPorta and move Santana to first base permanently. But that deal would be independent of the Fuko deal.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:49 pm

If this is it as far as moves the tribe makes this season, in the heat of a play-off run.... I might have to fly back to Cleveland just to egg Antonetti's house and pee in his gas tank......Maybe grab a couple brews with Choo while I'm at it....

So there will be more moves, any talk from anywhere/any team for Morse???
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:56 pm

criznit2009 wrote:If this is it as far as moves the tribe makes this season, in the heat of a play-off run.... I might have to fly back to Cleveland just to egg Antonetti's house and pee in his gas tank......Maybe grab a couple brews with Choo while I'm at it....

So there will be more moves, any talk from anywhere/any team for Morse???


Morse is a nice hitter but an absolute butcher at 1B for the Walgreens Natinals.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby jellis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:57 pm

criznit2009 wrote:If this is it as far as moves the tribe makes this season, in the heat of a play-off run.... I might have to fly back to Cleveland just to egg Antonetti's house and pee in his gas tank......Maybe grab a couple brews with Choo while I'm at it....

So there will be more moves, any talk from anywhere/any team for Morse???



People have to realize that you can only do so much, Fukudome has a limited no trade with 6 teams on it and one was cleveland. If a guy has a no trade he is not waving to come to Cleveland, and play in front of no fans, honestly unless your an Indians fan there is no reason to want to come and play here over another team right now. We tried hard for Breltran he said no, we had to convince Fukudome to come.


BTW how does anyone not like this move, we has a team have a 316 OBP, no one can get on base. Fukudome OBP over the past 3 seasons 371, this year 374. Kearns OBP 316, buck's 292. That's a huge difference in OBP, plus the amount of pitches he takes would be huge for many of the teams we face, he will drive pitchers batty and help us get to weak pens in the AL quicker
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:11 pm

jellis wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:If this is it as far as moves the tribe makes this season, in the heat of a play-off run.... I might have to fly back to Cleveland just to egg Antonetti's house and pee in his gas tank......Maybe grab a couple brews with Choo while I'm at it....

So there will be more moves, any talk from anywhere/any team for Morse???



People have to realize that you can only do so much, Fukudome has a limited no trade with 6 teams on it and one was cleveland. If a guy has a no trade he is not waving to come to Cleveland, and play in front of no fans, honestly unless your an Indians fan there is no reason to want to come and play here over another team right now. We tried hard for Breltran he said no, we had to convince Fukudome to come.


BTW how does anyone not like this move, we has a team have a 316 OBP, no one can get on base. Fukudome OBP over the past 3 seasons 371, this year 374. Kearns OBP 316, buck's 292. That's a huge difference in OBP, plus the amount of pitches he takes would be huge for many of the teams we face, he will drive pitchers batty and help us get to weak pens in the AL quicker


I think we fans expected more. In reality, we are not up against the trade deadline yet so my hope is we will still get another bat. Right now I hope for Willingham (he has played a little 1B and could play there after Choo returns). Otherwise, get a 1B and play LaPorta some in LF until Choo returns. I just want to see us get enough help to keep us in contention (and hopefully win the division). Fukudome does improve the team - no question - but I don't feel it's enough yet.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby jellis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:14 pm

daingean wrote:
jellis wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:If this is it as far as moves the tribe makes this season, in the heat of a play-off run.... I might have to fly back to Cleveland just to egg Antonetti's house and pee in his gas tank......Maybe grab a couple brews with Choo while I'm at it....

So there will be more moves, any talk from anywhere/any team for Morse???



People have to realize that you can only do so much, Fukudome has a limited no trade with 6 teams on it and one was cleveland. If a guy has a no trade he is not waving to come to Cleveland, and play in front of no fans, honestly unless your an Indians fan there is no reason to want to come and play here over another team right now. We tried hard for Breltran he said no, we had to convince Fukudome to come.


BTW how does anyone not like this move, we has a team have a 316 OBP, no one can get on base. Fukudome OBP over the past 3 seasons 371, this year 374. Kearns OBP 316, buck's 292. That's a huge difference in OBP, plus the amount of pitches he takes would be huge for many of the teams we face, he will drive pitchers batty and help us get to weak pens in the AL quicker


I think we fans expected more. In reality, we are not up against the trade deadline yet so my hope is we will still get another bat. Right now I hope for Willingham (he has played a little 1B and could play there after Choo returns). Otherwise, get a 1B and play LaPorta some in LF until Choo returns. I just want to see us get enough help to keep us in contention (and hopefully win the division). Fukudome does improve the team - no question - but I don't feel it's enough yet.

'
I think there is no chance this is the only move, reason is simply after willing to pay all of beltrans salary we got the cubs to pay almost all of fukudome contract, they conserved cash so they can make another deal. They will keep trying and this deal showed they are far from done
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:22 pm

I am happy with the move. IMO Fukudome is an offensive and defensive upgrade over Buck. Carrera is still in Cleveland and the Indians lost only Abreu who still has serious prospect issues from what I see. Maybe in a few years we will be upset we traded him, but not now for me. From what I was told, Smith would be the the pitcher cut when the Indians move one of Miller, Bryson or Stowell to Columbus and this saves them the trouble. This deal has little financial impact on the Indians if the reports are right and if the Indians want to make another deal for a RH bat or even a SP, they did not burn any financial bridges. Fukudome is not an impact bat but I do not question he will make the Indians a better team for the next month. :s_biggrin
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:23 pm

jellis wrote:'
I think there is no chance this is the only move, reason is simply after willing to pay all of beltrans salary we got the cubs to pay almost all of fukudome contract, they conserved cash so they can make another deal. They will keep trying and this deal showed they are far from done


I agree but we are just a little impatient. Yesterday certainly contributes to today's impatience. We also need to remember that July 31 is just an arbitrary deadline. Teams can still make moves until August 31. Plus, we need a trading partner that likes what we are offering. We will see how that works.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby indians1 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:39 pm

If the giants gave up wheeler to get beltran, you have to think the indians were willing to give up white or pomeranz for 2 months of beltran.

i think they are going to make another deal but i wonder about if it makes sense. I go back to that you don't anybody in the lineup that is clicking. Asdrubal is still doing well but he isn't hitting like he was earlier in the season. Santana, choo, sizemore, hafner, laporta have all been inconsistent and/or injured.

I like the fukodome trade because he is an upgrade to buck and kearns. I think if the indians really want to make a splash, you have to go for a top tier pitcher like jimenez from colorado. But that is going to cost you big time. I think that costs you a minimum of white/pomeranz and kipnis/chisenhall.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:50 pm

After seeing the Beltran deal and knowing the tribe was willing to eat his salary, is there any doubt Pom wasn't on the table in those discussions?

So this years market is expensive (sounds like they say that every year) and as of now we better get Willingham because once he is gone - it goes dry fast. Unless someone pulls something out of their......hat.

What are some right handed 1B options out there? Any? LaPorta could be working his way back to the OF.....
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby daingean » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:59 pm

criznit2009 wrote:After seeing the Beltran deal and knowing the tribe was willing to eat his salary, is there any doubt Pom wasn't on the table in those discussions?

So this years market is expensive (sounds like they say that every year) and as of now we better get Willingham because once he is gone - it goes dry fast. Unless someone pulls something out of their......hat.

What are some right handed 1B options out there? Any? LaPorta could be working his way back to the OF.....


Maybe a Derek Lee or even Casey Blake.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:01 pm

I think people are confusing Fukudome's arbitration status as a FA arby guy (6 years+ service time) vs. a first time arby-1 guy (3 years+ service time). Fukudome has it in his contract that at conclusion of it he would be free agent eligible if not offered arbitration (or he declines), so he doesn't need the 6 years of service time to be a regular free agent. He follows the six-year+ free agent arbitration rules, not the three-year+ arby rules where he would still be under team control and no comp picks are involved.

Now, whether or not the Indians would even consider offering him arbitration is another thing....but if they do they would get a pick if another team signs him.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Bearcatbob » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:18 pm

"What are some right handed 1B options out there? Any? LaPorta could be working his way back to the OF....."

I totally agree - and why is Santana not working his way back to Columbus for a swing rehab stint.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:22 pm

Can't see a problem with this move.

Is Fukudome the "ideal" hitter we wanted (right handed with power)? No

Is he better than pretty much our entire starting OF (including Brantley)? Yes, probably.

Not a world beater but an upgrade, even if it is only incremental. Also, they gave up very little for him.... Smith is a AAAA warm body and Abreu, whilst a high ceiling athlete, his flaws make him about 50 times more likely to flame out in AA than ever make the majors.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby jellis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:24 pm

Bearcatbob wrote:"What are some right handed 1B options out there? Any? LaPorta could be working his way back to the OF....."

I totally agree - and why is Santana not working his way back to Columbus for a swing rehab stint.


cause he still had the best OBP on this team by far, no one gets on base more
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:44 pm

Not a big fan of Fukudome, but he is a significant upgrade over Buck (shows how bad Buck was). Fuku has higher BA, but the real stats that matter are a 100 point increase in on-base% and 125 point increase in OPS and a 30 point increase in OPS+ (that's big). Not to mention a much better approach at the plate, more plate discipline, better strike zone judgement, etc. It is a minor trade, yes, but also really helps considering the alternative right now (Buck).
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Chip Davis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:24 pm

Prosecutor wrote:
Chip Davis wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Precursor to another deal? I don't see why. It's not like we traded for a starter and now we have six.


To me he seems very similar to Brantley and Carrera. I know his numbers are better at the moment but he really isn't that different of a player, just more experience. What happens if/when Choo returns in 3-4 weeks? I would be surprised if Brantley or Carrera isn't part of a package sent out. Who hits leadoff and plays centerfield for the Padres?


There's no way the Indians trade Brantley, who is young, talented, cheap, and under club control for several more years just because they added a 34-year-old right fielder who will be a free agent at the end of the year.

If Sizemore is let go they might need Brantley to play center next year, unless Zeke can prove he's an everyday major league centerfielder.

As for trading Zeke, I don't think he's established much trade value at this point. Keep in mind we got him last year in exchange for half of Russell Branyan.

Would the Tribe trade for a Ludwick or Willingham at this point, giving them an OF of Ludwick/Willy in left, Brantley in center, and Fuko in right with Zeke as the #4? Then when Grady and Choo are ready in late Aug or Sep, they get rid of Kearns and Zeke, leaving Ludwick and Fuko as the 4th and 5th outfielders behind Grady, Choo, and Brantley? That's five legitimate starting OFs. I don't see a trade for another outfielder. It looks like the cost of Ludwick and Willingham was too high and they settled on Fuko.

Will they trade for a starter after the recent impressive performances of Carmona and Huff? The rotation is looking pretty solid with Masterson, Carrasco, Tomlin, Carmona and Huff. Who could they trade for that would significantly upgrade one of those starters without costing a top prospect? Nobody, I'll bet.

They might deal for the Rockies catcher, Iannetta, if they want to bench LaPorta and move Santana to first base permanently. But that deal would be independent of the Fuko deal.



I'm a big fan of Brantley's but, they would prefer to trade Brantley long before any of White, Pom, Chiz, or Kipnis. Sizemore is not going to be "just let go". That makes no sense at all. I actually look for the Indians to sign him to a 1-2 year extension with the hopes that he rebounds.

If they trade for a starter it will be game changer like Jimenez or nothing. To much pitching depth to give up good young specs for filler. They will definately not trade for Ianetta. Makes absolutely no sense as long as Marson is on the roster. They may decide to send LaPorta to Columbus but he won't be benched. That would not do any good for LaPorta or the Indians.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:26 pm

Tondo wrote:
TonyIPI wrote: According to Antonetti he would be a Type B and they would get compensation if they offer arbitration and he declines.


While that'd be great, why should we offer him arby? He would accept and make way too much for his production...only way we "risk" doing this is Fukudome plays lights out, gets us to the POs and is clutch there...THEN maybe some other team would sign him away, netting us good draft comp...whatever, I'm ok with the trade rental or not


Arby is not guaranteed like some seem to think. You can offer and even if he accepts, cut him and you don't owe him his full salary. Not saying that's likely, but if the guy had Cleveland on his 6-team no trade list....I don't think he'd want to stay here for a full year in 2012. He could probably latch on to some other contender that he prefers. But we shall see.
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby GeronimoSon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:43 pm

At the end of the day, the Indians have acquired a player who is above average to very good defensively in RF and CF. He is a player with excellent bat to ball skills and a very good OBP. He may not possess the impact bat of carlos beltran, but he does give the indians a significant upgrade in the OF at a time when they are in dire need of an OF.

If he lives up to his numbers, he will be a more than welcome addition to the Indians and gives Indians fans a good reason to look forward to seeing him at bat..

At the end of the day, this is a good trade for the Indians in their quest to secure a spot in the post season in 2011. Good job by Antonetti and the front office.. :good:
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby jellis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:52 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:At the end of the day, the Indians have acquired a player who is above average to very good defensively in RF and CF. He is a player with excellent bat to ball skills and a very good OBP. He may not possess the impact bat of carlos beltran, but he does give the indians a significant upgrade in the OF at a time when they are in dire need of an OF.

If he lives up to his numbers, he will be a more than welcome addition to the Indians and gives Indians fans a good reason to look forward to seeing him at bat..

At the end of the day, this is a good trade for the Indians in their quest to secure a spot in the post season in 2011. Good job by Antonetti and the front office.. :good:


I agree with what you are saying.

Of all the guys listed on the market he has the 2nd highest OBP, people look at average too much and don't realize this guy GETS ON BASE. To me he is an ideal 2 hitter on this team, but thats just me.

Only guy with a higher OBP was Beltran, and he refused to come. I think its obvious the Indians are valuing OBP when you look at their targets which means I think Frenchy is a no go, look for guys with high OBP and you will find a target for the TRibe
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Re: Beyond the Fukodome

Postby nubballguy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:51 am

I agree, think he's a good #2 hitter. I wonder how they'll incorporate him into the line up.

Depending on the opposing pitcher, I might like to see:
Carrera
Fukodome
ACab
Hafner
Santana
Brantley
LaPorta
Chis
Kipnis

I like Ez in the lead off spot, at least I'd like to see him there for a bit to see what he can do, I think he could be a real disruptive force from the top of the order, provided he can get prove he can get on base of course. The more "expected" line up of course is with Brantley at 1 and EZ at 9 with LaPorta, Chis and Kip moving up a slot each.

Actually I'm intrigued by a line up of these 9 guys and would like to see what it could do, certainly anything is an improvement over the recent past!
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