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2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:41 am

TitoFrancona wrote:Are you sure it was Lowery you're talking about and not Lavisky? I don't think Lowery has played the last several games. I think maybe he's hurt or something.


Lowery was in there last night. He's been out of the lineup the past week doing the college award circuit.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TitoFrancona » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:53 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Absolutely was Lowery. Lavisky pinch hit late.


Sorry, I was looking a Monday's box score.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby go_tribe » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:14 pm

Also not impressed with Lowery last night, played a pretty poor defensive game and went without a hit. The Matt Mcbride comps really scare me with this kid...
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:25 pm

You must of picked the wrong night to watch Lowery..... he just went deep in the 1st inning tonight!
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:27 pm

go_tribe wrote:Also not impressed with Lowery last night, played a pretty poor defensive game and went without a hit. The Matt Mcbride comps really scare me with this kid...


Difference is that Jake Lowery has potential to be a solid defensive catcher with his athleticism and he is also left-handed hitting catcher, which gives him more value. Jake Lowery to Matt McBride right NOW, is a good comparison because they both can hit, but you can't overlook the fact that Lowery is 5 years younger. Personally, I don't see Lowery being stuck in the minors 5 years from now.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TitoFrancona » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:39 am

go_tribe wrote:Also not impressed with Lowery last night, played a pretty poor defensive game and went without a hit. The Matt Mcbride comps really scare me with this kid...


Are you honestly going to make an assumption based on 1 game? Not only 1 game, but his first game back in awhile.

Sorry, but that's simply unreasonable.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:47 am

All that was said was that Lowery didn't make a good impression. Of course it was only one game. But it wasn't a very good one...

I think we all know that you can't have a meaningful opinion based on a nine-inning sample.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:53 pm

I wonder how long Lavisky is going to keep batting cleanup.

I feel like it's obvious the order should be Myles, Wolters, Smith, Lowery...
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:54 pm

entertheshoe wrote:I wonder how long Lavisky is going to keep batting cleanup.

I feel like it's obvious the order should be Myles, Wolters, Smith, Lowery...


There are 1 million reasons why he bats cleanup :s_tongue

He's been a disappointment any way you look at it...with 2 new Top7 round Cs drafted in Lowery and Haase and Monsalve, who is younger btw, producing at LC...he's dropping fast in the C priority order. Where is he gonna play? With Monsalve moving to A+, he will have to split with Lowery at LC again...he'll be in Lowery's and Monsalve's shadow again...he better produce next year or he's an afterthought very quickly
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:03 pm

Tondo wrote:He's been a disappointment any way you look at it...with 2 new Top7 round Cs drafted in Lowery and Haase and Monsalve, who is younger btw, producing at LC...he's dropping fast in the C priority order. Where is he gonna play? With Monsalve moving to A+, he will have to split with Lowery at LC again...he'll be in Lowery's and Monsalve's shadow again...he better produce next year or he's an afterthought very quickly


Very, very doubtful after 3 months that he is "dropping fast" in the catcher priority order. May be an afterthought in some fans' eyes, but not the Tribe. Still has loads of talent.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:05 pm

Tondo wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:I wonder how long Lavisky is going to keep batting cleanup.

I feel like it's obvious the order should be Myles, Wolters, Smith, Lowery...


There are 1 million reasons why he bats cleanup :s_tongue

He's been a disappointment any way you look at it...with 2 new Top7 round Cs drafted in Lowery and Haase and Monsalve, who is younger btw, producing at LC...he's dropping fast in the C priority order. Where is he gonna play? With Monsalve moving to A+, he will have to split with Lowery at LC again...he'll be in Lowery's and Monsalve's shadow again...he better produce next year or he's an afterthought very quickly


Next year:
AAA Chen
AA Monsalve or Lowery
High A Monsalve or Lowery
Low A Lavisky
MV/Instructional Haase

Something like that maybe? One of them could probably move to 1st if need be. Good problem to have if you ask me.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Tondo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:24 pm

No way Lowery or Monslave will start at AA...Monsalve's too young to mess up, he'll progress steadily to A+ and still be 3years younger than the league AVG...Lowery has a shot to join Monsalve at A+ at best, leaving LC all to Lavisky but I think he'll open up at LC and move up quickly if he produces...no way he'll jump from NY/Penn to AA...you forgot a guy I really like in Perez, he'll catch at Akron next season...he's having a good season at Kinston, his bat is improving...he's a sleeper imho

AAA Chen
AA Perez
A+ Monsalve/Lowery
A Lavisky/Lowery
MV Haase

Legit specs at C at every level...pretty nice and a rarity...all that with Santana/Marson in Cleveland...THAT'S a nice problem to have...trade chips and fall back plans a plenty :s_thumbsup
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:29 pm

Tondo wrote:Legit specs at C at every level...pretty nice and a rarity...all that with Santana/Marson in Cleveland...THAT'S a nice problem to have...trade chips and fall back plans a plenty :s_thumbsup


Agree here. Definitely an area we could use in a trade
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:38 pm

Isn't Chen expected to see a promotion to AAA soon? If so, it's possible that Perez (who I completely forgot) gets sent up to AA later this year to take Chen's spot. Then maybe a ripple effect of Monsalve to High-A (he deserves it) and Lowery to Low-A (also deserving) with Lavisky taking over behind the plate at MV. I wouldn't rule that out for this year. I just hate the idea of having either Lavisky or Lowery at DH in the minors. Train them at a position and leave DHing to someone else who doesn't need the work as much.

Either way, fun to think about the depth we've got. Could turn into the Yankees system in a couple years with our versions of Montero, Sanchez, and Romine. :s_cool
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby go_tribe » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:52 pm

TitoFrancona wrote:
go_tribe wrote:Also not impressed with Lowery last night, played a pretty poor defensive game and went without a hit. The Matt Mcbride comps really scare me with this kid...


Are you honestly going to make an assumption based on 1 game? Not only 1 game, but his first game back in awhile.

Sorry, but that's simply unreasonable.


I simply said I wasn't impressed with him in that game, not saying anything beyond that. When I read Matt Mcbride comps, it scares me but I'm not the one saying he reminds me of Mcbride. Obviously I want him to succeed and wouldn't count him out after a couple weeks of pro ball
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:56 pm

Lavisky finally moved down to 6th in the lineup and he's 2-3 with a walk and ZERO strikeouts.

I'd like to take 100% of the credit for that, thank you very much. :dirol:
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Anything up with Myles? He's now missed two straight games...
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:47 pm

martyinnewyork wrote:Anything up with Myles? He's now missed two straight games...


Sore wrist.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:08 am

Thanks...
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:43 pm

Jeanmar Gomez will start tomorrow for the Scrappers.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:33 pm

A.Zajac wrote:Jeanmar Gomez will start tomorrow for the Scrappers.

Interesting, looks like the Indians had a plan for McAlllister and Gomez in place for a while. Either that or they decided to demote Gomez because of a bad performance last game! Think I believe that Talbot will be gone shortly and Gomez will be in Cleveland for a while. :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:38 pm

Why the start in MV? Simply moving him closer?
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:42 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Why the start in MV? Simply moving him closer?


C-Bus and Akron are at their all-star breaks, Kinston is out of the question, and LC is on the road.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:02 pm

Henry Dunn added to MV roster....may be in advance of a Myles DL move.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby osueddy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:03 am

I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 20. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 21 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 24. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:13 am

osueddy wrote:I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 21. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 22 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 25. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.



I'm terrible at math but if he's born January 1991 wouldn't that make him 20 (and a half) right now? He was 19 1/2 when we drafted him though, that is a little old for a high schooler, I never knew that.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby osueddy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:20 am

entertheshoe wrote:
osueddy wrote:I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 21. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 22 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 25. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.



I'm terrible at math but if he's born January 1991 wouldn't that make him 20 (and a half) right now? He was 19 1/2 when we drafted him though, that is a little old for a high schooler, I never knew that.


Thanks for the math correction. That one year does make a difference.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:00 am

osueddy wrote:I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 20. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 21 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 24. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.


Even take a guy like Wolters who was drafted out of HS in the same year doing leaps and miles better than him. Granted, I know, better prospect and not a catcher, but..
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:07 am

One caveat on Lavisky. Catcher is the most demanding defensive position to play on the field, especially for a young, inexperienced player. So with all the work he is putting in behind the plate and getting used to the day to day grind of playing every day, his offense may be suffering a little. He has flashed the power.....but no doubt the hit ability needs to be better and the K-rate is not good. That said, I am more than willing to see how he does and give him until this time next year before I consider him a mistake or significantly drop his prospect status (you win some and lose some with the signings).
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:15 pm

A.Zajac wrote:
osueddy wrote:I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 20. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 21 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 24. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.


Even take a guy like Wolters who was drafted out of HS in the same year doing leaps and miles better than him. Granted, I know, better prospect and not a catcher, but..

Both of you seem to see MV a lot and have a good feel for the organization so I would like to ask your opinion. A few weeks back, I looked at tape on four LC players and blogged about them being the heart of the Kinston lineup next year. Included in those four was Ronny Rodriguez. I have not changed my mind about Rodriguez or his projection but a new look at Wolters progress on some tape has made me reconsider who will be at Kinston next year. Wolters is looking like the player I saw in HS. He is so advanced in the intangibles as well as the stats that I think he might well skip over Rodriguez but I do not see him live like the two of you. He looks so advanced to me that I think the Indians might well bypass Rodriguez in favor or Wolters. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. Personally, I am thinking jellis might be wrong about Wolters staying at SS but that is another topic. I am not really interested in stat review but the impressions you get from watching his play. :friends:
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:22 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
A.Zajac wrote:
osueddy wrote:I was at the Scrappers game tonight it was a well played game. Good pitching, timely hitting, and over in just 2:20. Tony Wolters and Jake Lowery looked good, but I was impressed with the way that Jordan Smith swung the bat. Hopefully he can develop into something. Evan Frazar made some impressive plays at 3B too.

I do want to say that I'm a little worried about Alex Lavisky. I know that he was just in high school last year, but he is already 20. In 25 games with the Scrappers his OPS is .479. I know that he'll be the catcher at Lake County next year, but he really needs to do extremely well as a 21 year old in the MIdwest League. If he moves one level each year that would get him to Columbus in 2015 at 24. He really can't afford to fall behind a year especially with Jake Lowery looking impressive (and Monsalve, Perez, and Chen ahead of him). I know that it may be early to judge, but 1 million on a high school catcher who was 19 1/2 when he graduated from high school might be a mistake.


Even take a guy like Wolters who was drafted out of HS in the same year doing leaps and miles better than him. Granted, I know, better prospect and not a catcher, but..

Both of you seem to see MV a lot and have a good feel for the organization so I would like to ask your opinion. A few weeks back, I looked at tape on four LC players and blogged about them being the heart of the Kinston lineup next year. Included in those four was Ronny Rodriguez. I have not changed my mind about Rodriguez or his projection but a new look at Wolters progress on some tape has made me reconsider who will be at Kinston next year. Wolters is looking like the player I saw in HS. He is so advanced in the intangibles as well as the stats that I think he might well skip over Rodriguez but I do not see him live like the two of you. He looks so advanced to me that I think the Indians might well bypass Rodriguez in favor or Wolters. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. Personally, I am thinking jellis might be wrong about Wolters staying at SS but that is another topic. I am not really interested in stat review but the impressions you get from watching his play. :friends:


While looking towards next season is still a little tough, I'd probably put Wolters in Kinston and leave Ronny in LC, at least to start next season. However, the interesting part comes with Lindor and where he'll be to start next season. Personally, I think he'll start in LC.. so what does that mean for Ronny? Do they split time? Wolters is very advanced for his age and while I know a lot of people love Ronny, I'm a Wolters guy. He still needs to work on hitting breaking balls or knowing what pitch will come when... even somewhat of pitch recognition. Next season, Kinston may have a legit lineup for the first time in a while.. I believe Washington, Wolters, and Aguilar will all start in Kinston. Possibly Lowery and Myles, though they could certainly also start in LC. Wolters defense at short still is a little rough, though I must say it's gotten a little better. His range still scares me a bit. He has a real nice arm at short and ball to glove transfer isn't really much of a problem. I don't believe the Indians will move him to second any time in the near future. If I had to guess, eventually, he may end up at second, yes. But it's to my belief that the Indians will give him every opportunity to succeed at short. One of the reasons why they may have him eventually switch is because of range and/or Lindor. With Ronny Rodriguez, he's still a little more raw than Wolters and that's why, IMO, he'll stay in LC.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:10 pm

If Wolters finishes the season in MV or most of the rest of the season, I see absolutely no way he skips Low-A. None. He just turned 19 last month, and even for as advanced as he is you just don't have raw, inexperienced high school players skip an important level like that. Read the comments from Ross Atkins in MH tomorrow on that which he coincidentally talks about the differences between college and high school players. The players who skip Lake County and go right to Kinston are the advanced college guys. A guy like Lowery who will definitely skip Lake County next year. A raw guy like Myles, as Atkins suggests too, will very likely go to Lake County next year.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Rodriguez, Lindor and Wolters next year. Three shortstops who if all healthy will need to play every day but only two spots open in Kinston and Lake County. I think there is still a good chance that Rodriguez could be pushed up to Kinston, and Wolters should start in Lake County. I am not sure yet what they will do with Lindor. he will be 18 all of next season, so I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility he opens in extended spring training as Low-A and his first full season will be a lot. He'd be over a year younger than Wolters is this season. I think we could see him do what Wolters is doing this year in that he goes to extended and plays with MV and LC the second half of the season. Of course that is debateable, but that's my feel right now on him, although I think there is a chance that both Lindor and Wolters are in Lake County with Wolters play some second there.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:28 pm

I'm not sure what the Tribe's plans are, but if Rodriguez or Wolters made a transition to 2nd base I wouldn't really object. Both of their fielding positions are pretty unimpressive.

Wolters: .909 fielding percentage
Rodriguez: .908 fielding percentage

Granted, they're both young but Asdrubal Cabrera, Luis Valbuena, Jason Donald, and Juan Diaz never at any point in their careers had fielding percentages that low. Heck, when Lonnie Chisenhall started playing in the minor leagues at SS, his fielding percentage was .929, about 2% better than Wolters and Rodriguez, yet he was still moved to 3rd.

Personally, I'd like to see a combination of Tony Wolters and Franky Lindor at 2B/SS in Lake County next year and have them move up the system together.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby elrod enchilada » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:36 pm

That makes sense to me.

Put Ronnie Rodriguez in High A, with Bartilone and MacPhee, if he signs.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TitoFrancona » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:43 am

entertheshoe wrote:I'm not sure what the Tribe's plans are, but if Rodriguez or Wolters made a transition to 2nd base I wouldn't really object. Both of their fielding positions are pretty unimpressive.

Wolters: .909 fielding percentage
Rodriguez: .908 fielding percentage

Granted, they're both young but Asdrubal Cabrera, Luis Valbuena, Jason Donald, and Juan Diaz never at any point in their careers had fielding percentages that low. Heck, when Lonnie Chisenhall started playing in the minor leagues at SS, his fielding percentage was .929, about 2% better than Wolters and Rodriguez, yet he was still moved to 3rd.

Personally, I'd like to see a combination of Tony Wolters and Franky Lindor at 2B/SS in Lake County next year and have them move up the system together.


Fortunately, most teams don't make such rash decisions for barely 19 year old kid with 2 months of professional ball under his belt.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:25 am

Re: Lindor, Rodriguez and Wolters (assuming Lindor signs);

Statistics demonstrate that players are their most productive between the ages of 26 and 29 (physical maturity and baseball skill are optimized at this point). Not everyone follows the same development curve, and there is probably some variability between positions, but that is how it generally is. I don't want to rush any of these guys to the majors if I'm the Indians. Francisco Lindor does not even turn 18 until November. Assuming he makes the majors and the CBA stays the way it is (6 years before free agency), I'd prefer to have Lindor an Indian between the ages of 23 and 28, rather than 21 to 26.

Lindor needs to get stronger. He's got the body frame to add strength w/o losing much agility. I philosophically like the idea of challenging players, but I'm not sure the economics of MLB (they way it is now) support it.

Don't rush any of these guys and make up your mind on what position you honestly think Tony Wolters ends up playing.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:58 pm

TitoFrancona wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:I'm not sure what the Tribe's plans are, but if Rodriguez or Wolters made a transition to 2nd base I wouldn't really object. Both of their fielding positions are pretty unimpressive.

Wolters: .909 fielding percentage
Rodriguez: .908 fielding percentage

Granted, they're both young but Asdrubal Cabrera, Luis Valbuena, Jason Donald, and Juan Diaz never at any point in their careers had fielding percentages that low. Heck, when Lonnie Chisenhall started playing in the minor leagues at SS, his fielding percentage was .929, about 2% better than Wolters and Rodriguez, yet he was still moved to 3rd.

Personally, I'd like to see a combination of Tony Wolters and Franky Lindor at 2B/SS in Lake County next year and have them move up the system together.


Fortunately, most teams don't make such rash decisions for barely 19 year old kid with 2 months of professional ball under his belt.


A rash decision such as moving Lonnie Chisenhall to 3B from SS after playing SS poorly his first year? Yea, teams like the Indians don't make "rash" decisions like the one that the Indians made. Makes sense if you don't think about it.

To me, the "rash" decision would be benching one of the three, which in that case would most likely be Rodriguez.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:23 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
TitoFrancona wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:I'm not sure what the Tribe's plans are, but if Rodriguez or Wolters made a transition to 2nd base I wouldn't really object. Both of their fielding positions are pretty unimpressive.

Wolters: .909 fielding percentage
Rodriguez: .908 fielding percentage

Granted, they're both young but Asdrubal Cabrera, Luis Valbuena, Jason Donald, and Juan Diaz never at any point in their careers had fielding percentages that low. Heck, when Lonnie Chisenhall started playing in the minor leagues at SS, his fielding percentage was .929, about 2% better than Wolters and Rodriguez, yet he was still moved to 3rd.

Personally, I'd like to see a combination of Tony Wolters and Franky Lindor at 2B/SS in Lake County next year and have them move up the system together.


Fortunately, most teams don't make such rash decisions for barely 19 year old kid with 2 months of professional ball under his belt.


A rash decision such as moving Lonnie Chisenhall to 3B from SS after playing SS poorly his first year? Yea, teams like the Indians don't make "rash" decisions like the one that the Indians made. Makes sense if you don't think about it.

To me, the "rash" decision would be benching one of the three, which in that case would most likely be Rodriguez.

They didn't move Chiz because he played SS poorly. They left him at SS to ease the transition to pro ball. He was sent to Short Season ball. Didn't make sense to move him to a new position during a 70 game season. The team made it plain that they drafted Chiz with the intention to move him to 3B.

While Wolters may indeed end up at 2B, the team has consistently manintained since he was drafted that they thought Wolters could remain at SS. The current wealth of low minors SS specs (once Lindor signs) could change that but Wolters bat is more suited to SS so he should be given every chance to stick. I'm pretty sure that the decision is not going to be based on his fielding percentage for the 26 games he's played this season.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Rocky55 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:31 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Re: Lindor, Rodriguez and Wolters (assuming Lindor signs);

Statistics demonstrate that players are their most productive between the ages of 26 and 29 (physical maturity and baseball skill are optimized at this point). Not everyone follows the same development curve, and there is probably some variability between positions, but that is how it generally is. I don't want to rush any of these guys to the majors if I'm the Indians. Francisco Lindor does not even turn 18 until November. Assuming he makes the majors and the CBA stays the way it is (6 years before free agency), I'd prefer to have Lindor an Indian between the ages of 23 and 28, rather than 21 to 26.

Lindor needs to get stronger. He's got the body frame to add strength w/o losing much agility. I philosophically like the idea of challenging players, but I'm not sure the economics of MLB (they way it is now) support it.

Don't rush any of these guys and make up your mind on what position you honestly think Tony Wolters ends up playing.

+1 on the age issue.

Said pretty much the same thing when folks were mentioning how old Santana was for a spec last year. I don't care if Santana goes FA when he's 32, especially if he remains at catcher. If CC had been in the minors longer we might still have him this year. Plus he would have gone through a lot of his growing pains in the minor leagues & joined the team as a more finished product, similar to the seasoning that college players receive.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:51 pm

Since getting moved out of the cleanup spot, Alex Lavisky through 7 games is now 8/24 (.333) and has hit safely in every game but the first. He also hit his 1st home run of the year since being sent to Mahoning Valley. 6 walks is also impressive by his standards.

Crazy how something like that can get someone going. Now why on earth did it take so long?
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby daingean » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:53 pm

entertheshoe wrote:Since getting moved out of the cleanup spot, Alex Lavisky through 7 games is now 8/24 (.333) and has hit safely in every game but the first. He also hit his 1st home run of the year since being sent to Mahoning Valley. 6 walks is also impressive by his standards.

Crazy how something like that can get someone going. Now why on earth did it take so long?


Cleanup is a lot to put on a 1st full season catcher. He has to learn the pro-game from a catching perspective (calling game, communicating with pitchers especially those with language differences). I think the Tribe wanted to push him a little.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:54 pm

Rocky55 wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Re: Lindor, Rodriguez and Wolters (assuming Lindor signs);

Statistics demonstrate that players are their most productive between the ages of 26 and 29 (physical maturity and baseball skill are optimized at this point). Not everyone follows the same development curve, and there is probably some variability between positions, but that is how it generally is. I don't want to rush any of these guys to the majors if I'm the Indians. Francisco Lindor does not even turn 18 until November. Assuming he makes the majors and the CBA stays the way it is (6 years before free agency), I'd prefer to have Lindor an Indian between the ages of 23 and 28, rather than 21 to 26.

Lindor needs to get stronger. He's got the body frame to add strength w/o losing much agility. I philosophically like the idea of challenging players, but I'm not sure the economics of MLB (they way it is now) support it.

Don't rush any of these guys and make up your mind on what position you honestly think Tony Wolters ends up playing.

+1 on the age issue.

Said pretty much the same thing when folks were mentioning how old Santana was for a spec last year. I don't care if Santana goes FA when he's 32, especially if he remains at catcher. If CC had been in the minors longer we might still have him this year. Plus he would have gone through a lot of his growing pains in the minor leagues & joined the team as a more finished product, similar to the seasoning that college players receive.


Don't forget that we actually did extend CC. He was suppose to be a free agent after the 2006 season but agreed to a 2 year extension (in April I believe?). Had we waited to call him up, he may not have been as willing to sign that team friendly deal as he wouldn't have been in his 20s still when he became a free agent. Then again, maybe he does still do it.....though we don't win the central in 2001 without him either. I do agree though, nothing wrong with a guy staying down longer or being an older spec when you're Cleveland.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:42 am

Jordan Smith is teeing it up & kickin ass. I'm waitng for him to cool off & he just won't. You look at his numbers and shake your head.

The only things that you can point to as cautionary are the home/road split & the lack of HRs. I'm pretty sure though that a guy his size will eventually develop decent power. The contact skills are striking. He's a unique OF spec in the org, the kind of player we were lacking, at least up until now.

Gotta say that this is another good find by the scouting dept. :drinks:
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:13 am

Rocky55 wrote:Jordan Smith is teeing it up & kickin ass. I'm waitng for him to cool off & he just won't. You look at his numbers and shake your head.

The only things that you can point to as cautionary are the home/road split & the lack of HRs. I'm pretty sure though that a guy his size will eventually develop decent power. The contact skills are striking. He's a unique OF spec in the org, the kind of player we were lacking, at least up until now.

Gotta say that this is another good find by the scouting dept. :drinks:


All that stuff except I don't know if he's an OF spec.

19 games at 3rd base
7 games in RF

Anybody know where the plan is for him to play?

14 walks 10 strikeouts in his first year is very impressive. After just getting torn up by Joe Mauer, I have no problems with Smith's power issues.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:11 pm

Jake Lowery getting it done tonight. Two single & a double for 6RBI. They're even letting him catch. This guy is a run producer.

I'm getting convinced that Smith could be getting lots more RBI's himself if he wasn't hitting behind Lowery.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby Rocky55 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:25 pm

entertheshoe wrote:
Rocky55 wrote:Jordan Smith is teeing it up & kickin ass. I'm waitng for him to cool off & he just won't. You look at his numbers and shake your head.

The only things that you can point to as cautionary are the home/road split & the lack of HRs. I'm pretty sure though that a guy his size will eventually develop decent power. The contact skills are striking. He's a unique OF spec in the org, the kind of player we were lacking, at least up until now.

Gotta say that this is another good find by the scouting dept. :drinks:


All that stuff except I don't know if he's an OF spec.

19 games at 3rd base
7 games in RF

Anybody know where the plan is for him to play?

14 walks 10 strikeouts in his first year is very impressive. After just getting torn up by Joe Mauer, I have no problems with Smith's power issues.


I hope they're not profiling Smith as a utility guy already because I think that based on the evidence so far, the bat will play anywhere. Based on nothing but opinion & his physical capabilities, I'm thinking OF.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:13 pm

Indians will settle on a position for Smith in Instructional League, but believe they are heavily leaning on 3B.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby A.Zajac » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:12 am

FWIW, Wolters hitting .304 AVG, .401 OBP, 17 BB/21 K.. not too bad for a young kid in a league filled with more experienced players.
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby toledobuck » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:15 pm

Any update on when Myles will be coming back?
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Re: 2011 Mahoning Valley Scrappers thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:56 pm

No update yet on Myles. It is a hamstring that is actually bothering and not his wrist.
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