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2011 International free agents

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

2011 International free agents

Postby Hermie13 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:55 pm

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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:05 pm

Dorssys Paulino-SS... ?
That's a pretty hefty contract for such a young kid... But fairly safe in that it is Jesus Sanchez's son, not some one whose identity should be more scrutinized (Wally Bryan). 5'11 175 and only 16 reportedly has a good bat, obviously has room to grow, but when Lindor signs I'm sure $1.1 Mil. will seem a lot smaller.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby OhioBaseball » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:17 pm

Indians are reported to have signed Francisco Miguel, a 6'3", 190 lbs Dominican outfielder for $200k.

Additional note, Paulino is ranked 14th in BA's top int'l prospect 2011 class.

Just a thought, but there is a lot of money chasing these international free agents. It wasn't this way 10 years ago. The guy ranked 10th on BA's list is rumored to be receiving $5 million from Texas.

Texas also signed Ronald Guzman for $3.5 million. There's a video of him on youtube -- his swing is long, but if you want to see what PLUS projectable power looks like in a teenager...that may be your textbook example.

Would love more detailed signing bonus info on past int'l classes. The economics between the int'l free agent class and the HS (& college, too) draft class would be absolutely crazy interesting to study.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:59 pm

Heres a link from BA listing the top 40 prospects.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 12028.html
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:27 am

This is all extremely interesting stuff b/c there really is not much info out there on these guys. Louisville Slugger looks to be sponsoring a prospect league and there are videos of some guys, but this is an area the baseball community in the US has yet to cover all that well b/c of obvious difficulties obtaining info!

Outside of Danys Baez, Paulino is probably the largest publicized signing on the international market, such as Tony indicated. Did some looking and the Indians were apparently in pretty hard on Miguel Sano, who signed with the Twins for $3.15 million in 2009. Mirabelli was quoted in the PD that the Indians were "very interested in signing him". The Indians were also reported to have been close to signing Edward Salcedo, but he eventually went to the Braves for $1.6 million and is having a nice season in low-A ball after looking overmatched in the same league last year.

The Indians have been in the mix for some big dollar talent, but have lost out, which might not be such a bad thing. The A's signed Michael Ynoa to a $4.25 million signing bonus in 2008. Physically, Ynoa is an extremely impressive pitching prospect with A++ pitcher's body and projection, but the guy had Tommy John surgery recently. Not that it will derail his career, but it's a pretty fair setback when you consider his price tag.

When you look at guys like Sano and Salcedo, they were both very physically developed at early ages. They stand out b/c their bodies matured at early ages -- not everybody follows the same growth curve. I remember "Lasto" Milledge and Delmon Young when they were sophomores in high school. I saw them as juniors in HS and scouts were in love, and you could tell why. Milledge wasn't as big, but these guys were huge prospects b/c of obvious talent, but also their bodies developed more quickly than their peers (in my opinion). Ten or so years later, neither guy has delivered on the promise they showed as 16 year olds.

I know this isn't some big revelation, but when you're signing 16 year olds you're taking big gambles on where they are in their physical maturation. You don't have a crystal ball and know what the finished product is going to look like. Heck, this is difficult with 18 year old high school seniors in the MLB draft; you're looking at sophomore and junior equivalent ages in the int'l market.

This is absolutely a market you CANNOT ignore, but considering the appreciation of bonuses in recent years, you're probably better off staying away from the most expensive prospects b/c they are a good 10-12 years away from hitting their peak as major league ball players, which is crazy when you think about it. This is a market where you're probably best off going with quantity and signing guys to $100k to $400k bonuses that show some athleticism, decent (yet immature) bodies, decent arm strength, decent running skills, etc. and hoping they develop physically in 3-5 years. Very speculative investing.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby elrod enchilada » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:32 am

Just wondering: how does Paulino compare as a prospect to Tony Wolters or Francisco Lindor?
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:57 am

From what I heard, the $1.1 million bonus for Paulino may be a record for them on the international front given to one player. Previous may be Monsalve/Jorge who got $750K.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:11 am

TonyIPI wrote:From what I heard, the $1.1 million bonus for Paulino may be a record for them on the international front given to one player. Previous may be Monsalve/Jorge who got $750K.


Assuming Baez is not included since he was a Cuban defect ($4.5M bonus), then I believe this is true.

Like that we're spending more (so far) here. I'm ok with not giving out the $3M, $4M, and now $5M bonuses, but we have to at least be competitive with some of the other smaller markets.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby Hermie13 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:12 am

homerawayfromhome wrote:Dorssys Paulino-SS... ?
That's a pretty hefty contract for such a young kid... But fairly safe in that it is Jesus Sanchez's son, not some one whose identity should be more scrutinized (Wally Bryan). 5'11 175 and only 16 reportedly has a good bat, obviously has room to grow, but when Lindor signs I'm sure $1.1 Mil. will seem a lot smaller.


Yeah, $1.1M does sound like a lot for a 16 year old (then again some are getting $4M+).....but as you mentioned, Lindor should get much more....and he is still only 17. By all rights, should have just finished his junior year of high school.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby ClevelandBlues » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:39 pm

With Wolters, Rodriguez, LIndor, Kelly, Bartalone and now Paulino in the organization, we have some really good shortstop depth going on in the low minors. Should be interesting to see who sticks at the position and who ends up getting moved to other positions down the line. Which of these guys is considered the most talented defensively?
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:40 pm

elrod enchilada wrote:Just wondering: how does Paulino compare as a prospect to Tony Wolters or Francisco Lindor?

Similar to Lindor and Wolters in many respects from what I see on his tape. Less likely to stay at SS than Lindor but has defensive tools. Batting skills remind me of Wolters but they are all very young, even the "old guy" Wolters. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:43 pm

The signings keep coming. The Indians signed Anthony Santander, a 16 year old Venezuelan outfielder for $385k. 6'2", 185 lbs.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby OhioBaseball » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:48 pm

Am I the only one to find it strange that Dorssys Paulino is the son of Jesus Sanchez, but uses "Paulino" as his last name? That's not how it normally works, right? :)
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby ACrank » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:28 pm

i might be wrong, but i thought some Latin American's often went by their mother's name?
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:26 pm

Not sure if this is the same guy but I found it interesting that I read Dolfi Paulino-SS listed as the 8th best prospect in the international prospect league (IPL) same read on the guy (projection) but listed at 6'1 and 180 lbs. That size difference may be more current or a player listing not sure but Paulino appears to be a kid that will out grow SS. I guess for comparison sake only (not projection) but Paulino may be like Javier Baez, who the Tribe considered heavily before picking Francisco Lindor who will be a career SS, while Paulino and Baez will likely out grow the position. Tony Wolters is a SS by trade, could end up as a 2B but personally I believe the Tribe has two potential major league quality SS :dirol: in Wolters and Lindor and this without mention of Ronny Rodriguez who could be a quick riser.

@ ACrank I believe I have heard that too, could be a custody situation where Paulino was not raised by his father or something like that.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:35 pm

@ Ohio Baseball agreed on the international strategy, personally I'm in favor of blanketing the market by multiple signings. Id rather sign 10 players for 400k than spend that 4mil on 1 guy. I say this tongue in check bc at some point I believe a team should also take calculated risk much like the Tribe draft of this yr, which saw the tribe go for projection / upside and quantity while sprinkling in some 'safe' pks too.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:05 pm

Here's a link for the Anthony Santander signing.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/cleveland ... index.html
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:06 pm

I am hearing the Indians will sign five guys during this early period of International signing. The Paulino and Miguel signings are official, and the other three will be known in the next 24-48 hours (confirmed that is). One of the three is the Salanter guy, though not an official deal yet.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby entertheshoe » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:20 pm

Stupid question:

Will Paulino (and/or these other Dominican signings) be playing for the Indians DSL team? Or could they end up in MV or Arizona as well?

Just wondering because I'll sometimes check the DSL Indians box scores on the affiliates site and I have no clue who any of those guys are. Would be nice to have someone else to track.

:good:
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:57 pm

Paulino will report to the Dominican immediately. Cpl other signings from this yr Kevin Calderon -C and big lefty from Venezuela Luis Lugo 6'5 200 lbs 16 yr old are playing there.
Here's the link: http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... e&c_id=cle
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby TonyIBI » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:02 am

None of the signings from the July 2nd signing period will play anywhere this year. Convoluted approval process and yadda yadda yadda....they will be with those teams but not play.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:12 am

The Indians have signed Juan Marte- RHP 6'4 175.
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=608417
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:33 am

The Indians have signed Claudio Bautista -SS 5'11 170 and assigned him to DSL. Here's the links:
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/team/t ... eam_id=114
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=608418

So here's the run down on International signings so far.
Dorssys Paulino-SS
Francisco Miguel-OF
Anthony Santaendra-OF
Juan Marte-RHP
Claudio Bautista-SS.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby toledobuck » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:02 pm

The PD shows that additional latin recruits have signed as well which gives us the following list of inked international FA's:

SS Dorssys Paulino (Dominican Republic)
Outfielder Francisco Miguel (D.R.)
LHP Edgar Pineda (Venezuela)
Outfielder Omar Sanchez (Venezuela)
Outfielder Anthony Santander (Venezuela)
RHP Juan Marte
SS Claudio Bautista
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:33 pm

Here is my writeup on the recent activity and comments from Mirabelli on the five guys we have signed to date:

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... plash.html

Also, be leary of the Indians transactions feed. Some of the guys "signed" and assigned to the DSL were signed last year just not assigned to a team on a team. Similar to last month where the transactions said they signed Battaglia, Cervenka, and Chia-Ching Lin but all were signed last year or before.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:44 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Here is my writeup on the recent activity and comments from Mirabelli on the five guys we have signed to date:

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... plash.html

Also, be leary of the Indians transactions feed. Some of the guys "signed" and assigned to the DSL were signed last year just not assigned to a team on a team. Similar to last month where the transactions said they signed Battaglia, Cervenka, and Chia-Ching Lin but all were signed last year or before.


Hey Tony, quick note about your article. The BA rankings aren't actually rankings.

"The players below are ranked according to their expected signing bonuses, based on conversations with international sources, and not necessarily their projected talent level. That distinction is important enough to repeat: The rankings are a forecast of the expected top 40 signing bonuses, NOT a ranking of the top talent in Latin America. Think of the top 40 as our mock draft for Latin America rather than our predraft Top 200 rankings."

In other words, Paulino isn't the 14th best prospect, he was projected to have the 14th highest bonus. Also, Santander was on that list too, at #29.

Nice article Tony, thanks for sharing as usual.
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby GhostofTedCox » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:03 pm

The 16 year old LHP Edgar Pineda may be able to throw in the 90's, but he is a reported 5'7" tall. I think that makes him the ultimate "little lefty".
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Re: 2011 International free agents

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:31 pm

GhostofTedCox wrote:The 16 year old LHP Edgar Pineda may be able to throw in the 90's, but he is a reported 5'7" tall. I think that makes him the ultimate "little lefty".


Would be an interesting guy to know a family history on. could he be a late grower? or is he mostly tapped out on height...
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