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Lack of RH bat

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Lack of RH bat

Postby jrotonda23 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:18 pm

How concerned is the Front Office with the lack of RH bats on the ML team and in the farm system. LaPorta hasn't shown anything to make me believe that he'll ever be a middle of the order type guy, plus he struggles against lefties anyways and our top position prospects (Chiz, Kip, and Weglz) are all LH. Is there any RH bat on the way?
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby MadThinker88 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:24 pm

jrotonda23 wrote:Is there any RH bat on the way?


Short answer - Yes. Is there any RH bat able to be a boost this season - No.
The right-handed bats with power or average potential are further down in the system.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby TonyIBI » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:06 pm

RH bats of major league quality are certainly lacking in the system. Only guy at High-A or above who hits RH who has any chance to be a regular is Chen, and even he may just end up a DH or 1B and he also has some plate discipline issues starting to surface which may prevent him from ever getting there.

I am confident though that when it comes time to get a young bat, that they will use some of the pitching surplus to acquire it. Just have to find the right fit.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby entertheshoe » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:09 pm

TonyIPI wrote:RH bats of major league quality are certainly lacking in the system. Only guy at High-A or above who hits RH who has any chance to be a regular is Chen, and even he may just end up a DH or 1B and he also has some plate discipline issues starting to surface which may prevent him from ever getting there.

I am confident though that when it comes time to get a young bat, that they will use some of the pitching surplus to acquire it. Just have to find the right fit.


What if we move Weglarz over to the right side and just have him bat backwards?

He would probably still walk just as much!

:bomb:
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby indianinkslinger » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:15 pm

I may be a bit of an optimist in this case but I think a RH bat that will "help" is on the way to Cleveland soon. No, not some power hitting OF but a solid IF (3B) who has an effective hitting stroke, especially against LHP. I am talking about Jason Donald. He has looked very good at the plate to me in his rehab at Columbus. He will not hit 25 HRs but can get on base and provide some gap power. Although I hope the team can pick up an inexpensive RH bat for the rest of the year to platoon with Sizemore for the rest of the year, I think the player cost of a potential impact bat like former Indian Ryan Ludwick is probably too great. Another player who hits LHP hard and is purportedly very available is Marcus Thames. He has been scuffling a bit since his return from the DL and is dreadful defensively but should be helpful against LHP to provide rest for Hafner and Sizemore. Just a thought.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Pressrunnr » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:33 pm

I think the player cost of a potential impact bat like former Indian Ryan Ludwick is probably too great.


Now it's my turn to be an optimist but ... I'm not so sure Ludwick would cost too much. Given his numbers, can you see any team really giving up a blue-chip prospect for him? If some team does, well, they can have at it. But given the way teams hold onto their really top prospects these days, I just don't see the Padres getting a king's ransom for him. On the other hand, isn't the word on the Tribe system that it's short on blue-chip but high on depth -- lots of guys who have major league (if not "star") upside? Once Padres see they're not going to get a top-tier player (like Pomeranz, for example) the Tribe's depth would give them the edge.

Of course, the question is, which second-tier prospect or package of prospects would you be willing to part with for Ludwick?
Last edited by Pressrunnr on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Edible14 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Pressrunnr wrote:Of course, the question is, which second-tier prospect or package of prospects would you be willing to part with for Ludwick?


I'd start with Kluber. Add in an OF that's not going to get a fair shake around here due to depth (Head, Huffman, Carerra, Fedroff, etc.) and a AAA or AA reliever that's not Putnam, Hagadone or Judy. Deal from a position of strength, and in doing so create some opportunities for other guys to be called up that are past due.

I think this could get it done, as deals have certainly been made for less. I don't know if the Padres will get a better offer, and it's at least something for them. Time will tell, though, if they're actually going to be in the pennant race and if other teams might be willing to pay more for Ludwick.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby criznit2009 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:31 am

Edible14 wrote:
Pressrunnr wrote:Of course, the question is, which second-tier prospect or package of prospects would you be willing to part with for Ludwick?


I'd start with Kluber. Add in an OF that's not going to get a fair shake around here due to depth (Head, Huffman, Carerra, Fedroff, etc.) and a AAA or AA reliever that's not Putnam, Hagadone or Judy. Deal from a position of strength, and in doing so create some opportunities for other guys to be called up that are past due.

I think this could get it done, as deals have certainly been made for less. I don't know if the Padres will get a better offer, and it's at least something for them. Time will tell, though, if they're actually going to be in the pennant race and if other teams might be willing to pay more for Ludwick.


Personally I wouldn't offer much more than Carrera straight up for Ludwick. Throw in Langwell or some other lower RP spec. Also there has been enough under performers and lack of risers this season system-wide to really present a seperation in talent level. Ludwick will cost more than what seems fair. I think a better option will be located.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:35 am

My issue with ludwick isn't what it would cost in players, but the fact that he has never been a guy to hit lefties all that well as he's been mostly a reverse split guy (a bit like Kearns). he is slugging a whopping .339 against them this year. Hell, Grady is slugging .385 against them.

Thames if he cost nothing wouldn't be a bad get (though he too hasn't hit lefties hard at all this year with a .333 SLG). dodgers are a team to keep an eye on though. Blake got off to a torrid start but has fallen off the map (maybe he thinks he's still on the Indians? ha). Could help at 3B, LF, and even some 1B if laPorta is out longer than expected. Dodgers could end up in salary dump mode too. He would have to pick it up some though too.

Then again...if all we are looking for is a RH bat that can hit lefties "hard" we kind of have that in Duncan (hitting lefties better than Ludwick and thames this year). Duncan hit lefties better than Thames last year too.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby entertheshoe » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:25 am

To me, anyone in this organization is "on the table" other than Chiz, Kipnis, Pomeranz, and White.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby indianinkslinger » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:11 am

Hermie13 wrote:My issue with ludwick isn't what it would cost in players, but the fact that he has never been a guy to hit lefties all that well as he's been mostly a reverse split guy (a bit like Kearns). he is slugging a whopping .339 against them this year. Hell, Grady is slugging .385 against them.

Thames if he cost nothing wouldn't be a bad get (though he too hasn't hit lefties hard at all this year with a .333 SLG). dodgers are a team to keep an eye on though. Blake got off to a torrid start but has fallen off the map (maybe he thinks he's still on the Indians? ha). Could help at 3B, LF, and even some 1B if laPorta is out longer than expected. Dodgers could end up in salary dump mode too. He would have to pick it up some though too.

Then again...if all we are looking for is a RH bat that can hit lefties "hard" we kind of have that in Duncan (hitting lefties better than Ludwick and thames this year). Duncan hit lefties better than Thames last year too.

Just one stat out of many, Hermie. In context, most of Grady's slugging production against LHP was in April. Not really relevant to current performance. Ludwick is not great but he will not be cheap in this market and the number of suitors the Pads apparently have.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Edible14 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:04 am

entertheshoe wrote:To me, anyone in this organization is "on the table" other than Chiz, Kipnis, Pomeranz, and White.


Disagree. Not for a rent-a-player. Knapp, Barnes, McAllister, Gomez, Judy, Putnam, De La Cruz, Rondon and a few more (depending on how you view various prospects) are going to be worth way more to this organization than half a year of slightly increased production at one position.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:09 pm

indianinkslinger wrote:
Hermie13 wrote:My issue with ludwick isn't what it would cost in players, but the fact that he has never been a guy to hit lefties all that well as he's been mostly a reverse split guy (a bit like Kearns). he is slugging a whopping .339 against them this year. Hell, Grady is slugging .385 against them.

Thames if he cost nothing wouldn't be a bad get (though he too hasn't hit lefties hard at all this year with a .333 SLG). dodgers are a team to keep an eye on though. Blake got off to a torrid start but has fallen off the map (maybe he thinks he's still on the Indians? ha). Could help at 3B, LF, and even some 1B if laPorta is out longer than expected. Dodgers could end up in salary dump mode too. He would have to pick it up some though too.

Then again...if all we are looking for is a RH bat that can hit lefties "hard" we kind of have that in Duncan (hitting lefties better than Ludwick and thames this year). Duncan hit lefties better than Thames last year too.

Just one stat out of many, Hermie. In context, most of Grady's slugging production against LHP was in April. Not really relevant to current performance. Ludwick is not great but he will not be cheap in this market and the number of suitors the Pads apparently have.


ha, was simply showing how bad Ludwick is against lefties. Wasn't trying to talk up Sizemore there.


Ludwick is a nice bat, but he does not solve the issue of a guy that can hit lefties really. Couple that with the high tag in players it'll cost (agree with that whole part) and he is making less and less sense for the Tribe IMO (I was a bit of a fan earlier but not anymore).
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Hermie13 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:21 pm

Edible14 wrote:
entertheshoe wrote:To me, anyone in this organization is "on the table" other than Chiz, Kipnis, Pomeranz, and White.


Disagree. Not for a rent-a-player. Knapp, Barnes, McAllister, Gomez, Judy, Putnam, De La Cruz, Rondon and a few more (depending on how you view various prospects) are going to be worth way more to this organization than half a year of slightly increased production at one position.


meh....I'd be willing to move any of those guys (other than Knapp whose value is too low). I'm a HUGE Barnes and McAllister fan, but in the right deal I'd be willing to part with one. You're talking about some bullpen arms and back of the rotation (most likely) guys. Obviously they could surpass their ceilings, but if you start taking those guys off the table then there's really nothign to deal.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby indianinkslinger » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:39 pm

One of the options mentioned earlier, Ryan Ludwick, is being aggressively pursued by Philadelphia and Cincinnati according to reports from the Pads themselves. The article stated that Philly is also a likely destination for closer Heath Bell with a package for both of four prospects which may include Dominic Brown. In what appears to be a backhanded slap at the Indians (and some others) the pads refer to Cincy and Philly as "legitimate contenders". Decisions are probably 2-3 weeks away.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby hoof32 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:54 pm

Cory Kluber would get you Josh Barfield.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Tondo » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:03 pm

Michael Morse anyone?
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby GeronimoSon » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:30 pm

Tondo wrote:Michael Morse anyone?

Mentioned on another thread.. not a bad suggestion.. but, don't look now..the Nats are in contention, sort of, for the NL Wild Card.. only 4 1/2 games back..

Which means the players you've identified, while more than adequate for solving the problems identified with the Indians, won't be coming this way now or any time in the foreseeable future. It's pretty easy to say: why don't the Indians trade for a player like "Manny Ramirez in his prime" or Carlos Gonzalez, but this isn't 'fantasy baseball'. The Indians need to look for other players that meet the needs (performance and financial) that have a more realistic chance at being acquired.

Names that you might consider: Mike Morse, Nats (1B/SS/3B/OF) or Gabby Sanchez, Marlins (1B). I am certain there are others, but, at this time, with so many clubs at least tacitly in the playoff race, there just aren't a lot of players that would "fit"..
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Pressrunnr » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:14 pm

One of the options mentioned earlier, Ryan Ludwick, is being aggressively pursued by Philadelphia and Cincinnati according to reports from the Pads themselves.


Let's define "aggressively" -- if it means giving up blue-chip prospects, then enjoy Ryan Ludwick, guys. If not, then it's a question of which team has the most depth to put together the best package of solid prospects. That being the case, given the Tribe's system's reputation of being high on just those types of prospects, I like the Tribe's chances of being able to land Ludwick or better yet, someone a notch or two better.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby jrotonda23 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:33 am

Well have to think someone like Ludwick makes a ton of sense since an outfield position opened up tonight. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes the FO to make a move.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby jellis » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:44 pm

Nats wont trade Moorse they are playing well, and we are far from the only team that needs a RHB. I think Philly will be the first team to add a bat. Am I the only one that is afraid of Ludwick, he washed out in the AL then went to NL and has played average the past few years, I think he comes back to the AL and disappoints. I do not think he will be worth the cost
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Edible14 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:50 pm

jellis wrote:Nats wont trade Moorse they are playing well, and we are far from the only team that needs a RHB. I think Philly will be the first team to add a bat. Am I the only one that is afraid of Ludwick, he washed out in the AL then went to NL and has played average the past few years, I think he comes back to the AL and disappoints. I do not think he will be worth the cost


I think that's perfectly valid, and that's why I won't advocate giving up much of value for him. The highest profile prospect I'd be willing to give up is Zeke Carerra, and that's only because we have other options for a 4th OF and Brantley is our CF of the future.

That being said, there's upside to that deal. Ludwick could help solve our lefty-centric problem, while being a better replacement for Choo in the short/medium term. He would also be a good 4th OF later in the season if/when Choo returns, at least better than Buck/Kearns. That's a low bar to set, of course, but I think it's probable that he's an upgrade for our team.

Just not enough of one to warrant trading a better prospect for.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby ClevelandBlues » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:20 pm

He is currently on the disabled list, but what about Josh Willingham from Oakland? He is not ideal because he strikes out a lot and does not hit for much average, but he has the ability to drive in runs and has decent power, plus it probably would not take much in the way of prospects to get him. He can play first base and the corner outfield spots, which are positions we are hurting at right now. He is also a free agent after the season and we might even get an extra draft pick for him in the offseason. If we could get him for a Talbot or Huff type of player I think it could be something worth looking into.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Tondo » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:45 am

Edible14 wrote:
jellis wrote:Nats wont trade Moorse they are playing well, and we are far from the only team that needs a RHB. I think Philly will be the first team to add a bat. Am I the only one that is afraid of Ludwick, he washed out in the AL then went to NL and has played average the past few years, I think he comes back to the AL and disappoints. I do not think he will be worth the cost


I think that's perfectly valid, and that's why I won't advocate giving up much of value for him. The highest profile prospect I'd be willing to give up is Zeke Carerra, and that's only because we have other options for a 4th OF and Brantley is our CF of the future.


I'd be willing to give up much more for Morse, esp. if we are able to agree on a long term deal with him (very difficult and improbable though)...I'd start with LeVon Washington and throw in a AA or AAA bullpen arm or Herrmann...I'd much rather keep Zeke than LeVon but that's just me..

Morse is a LEGIT RH power bat...he has a .290+ BA, .352OBP and .500+ SLG over his last 600 ABs...I'd gamble on a 4to5 year deal on him since we lack OF options at the higher levels anyway...he's really what we miss next to Choo and Brantley...can play some 1B too...perfect fit imho and I'd be willing to (over)pay the price...sometimes you need to go for what you're missing and Morse fits the bill

Throw 2or3 (depending on mix/talent level of specs) of LeVon, Head, Buck, Valbuena, Langwell, Judy, Herrmann, Huff, Rayl, Brach, Blair, Cookx2 etc at them and get Morse in here....I'd do it

Anybody know the exact status of Morse this offseason? Simple FA or arb1?
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby daingean » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:19 am

Tondo wrote:
Edible14 wrote:
jellis wrote:Nats wont trade Moorse they are playing well, and we are far from the only team that needs a RHB. I think Philly will be the first team to add a bat. Am I the only one that is afraid of Ludwick, he washed out in the AL then went to NL and has played average the past few years, I think he comes back to the AL and disappoints. I do not think he will be worth the cost


I think that's perfectly valid, and that's why I won't advocate giving up much of value for him. The highest profile prospect I'd be willing to give up is Zeke Carerra, and that's only because we have other options for a 4th OF and Brantley is our CF of the future.


I'd be willing to give up much more for Morse, esp. if we are able to agree on a long term deal with him (very difficult and improbable though)...I'd start with LeVon Washington and throw in a AA or AAA bullpen arm or Herrmann...I'd much rather keep Zeke than LeVon but that's just me..

Morse is a LEGIT RH power bat...he has a .290+ BA, .352OBP and .500+ SLG over his last 600 ABs...I'd gamble on a 4to5 year deal on him since we lack OF options at the higher levels anyway...he's really what we miss next to Choo and Brantley...can play some 1B too...perfect fit imho and I'd be willing to (over)pay the price...sometimes you need to go for what you're missing and Morse fits the bill

Throw 2or3 (depending on mix/talent level of specs) of LeVon, Head, Buck, Valbuena, Langwell, Judy, Herrmann, Huff, Rayl, Brach, Blair, Cookx2 etc at them and get Morse in here....I'd do it

Anybody know the exact status of Morse this offseason? Simple FA or arb1?


I believe we cannot trade Levon until August. He didn't sign until August last year and has to be with the organization for 1 whole year. Now he could be a PTNL (like we did with Tim Costo when we traded him for Reggie Jefferson all those years ago - I am not sure if that loop-hole is still open or not).
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby ACrank » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:00 am

Morse of the Nationals, right? What makes anyone think he is available?
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby jellis » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:05 am

ACrank wrote:Morse of the Nationals, right? What makes anyone think he is available?

exactly he is not available why would they trade him makes no sense for a team playing as well as they are
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Rocky55 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:42 am

jellis wrote:
ACrank wrote:Morse of the Nationals, right? What makes anyone think he is available?

exactly he is not available why would they trade him makes no sense for a team playing as well as they are

If I was the Nats I'd lock him up. Considering their other OF's are expensive, Werth & Harper(soon), Morse would be a welcome salary relief. I don't believe their cup runneth over with 1B specs either & Morse plays there too.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby Chip Davis » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am

Watching tonights game put the thought of Xavier Nady in my head. Drop Duncan and put Nady in his spot, I think it would be a good fit. I don't know how much Nady makes or what it would cost in specs, but if it's reasonable then it could be a good match.
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Re: Lack of RH bat

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:32 am

Chip Davis wrote:Watching tonights game put the thought of Xavier Nady in my head. Drop Duncan and put Nady in his spot, I think it would be a good fit. I don't know how much Nady makes or what it would cost in specs, but if it's reasonable then it could be a good match.


I'd think pretty hard about Valbuena, Donald, or Huff for Nady. Not sure I give up any more than that but it might be enough because he's a free agent at the end of the year. Who knows if the Diamondbacks are even going to be sellers though.
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