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2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Talk shop about the various prospects and teams that make up the Cleveland Indians organization.

Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Fri May 20, 2011 10:55 pm

ktriber wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:what a night for Soto 7IP 3H 1BB 8K!! Really starting to like this kid!
The Indians trade of Jhonny Peralta to the tigers for Giovanni Soto, a 19 year old, 6'3 155 pound string bean lefty with five pitches, didn't look like much at the time of the trade. If anything, it was called a salary dump and was so panned by the less than optimistic Friends of the Feather. Since then, Gio has added 25 pounds of muscle and has raised his FB velo from the mid 80's to the low 90's while maintaining good command of four pitches for his age.. You can't ever have enough pitching..and you certainly can't ever have enough lefty starters of Soto's projected caliber. At the start of this season, he was ranked the 27th best prospect in the Indians system by our group of 17 amateurs.. his star is on the rise.. While it would be "homer-esque" to call this trade in favor or the Indians, the trade is moving more towards a "draw", imho...


Soto has pitched great this year and is a real prospect in my opinion, but he is not pitching in the low 90's (unless the gun is wrong in Kinston). His fastball is normally in the 86-88 range.


Thanks for that. If you go to a game when they pitch can you update on what the gun has for Pomeranz and Adam Miller (or any legit Indians prospect you see)?
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Fri May 20, 2011 11:51 pm

Those stadium guns are bogus.

FYI, Soto has mostly been at 87-90 all year. Touched 92 MPH a few times....but consistently at 87-90.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby danh8 » Sat May 21, 2011 1:12 am

TonyIPI wrote:Those stadium guns are bogus.

FYI, Soto has mostly been at 87-90 all year. Touched 92 MPH a few times....but consistently at 87-90.


But, he can be very effective, even at higher levels at that velocity. With Soto, it's not as much veloecity as command and tilt of his slider. Devastatingly effective from my viewpoint watching him behind plate last year.

But, he can't re;y on it as much as he has in the minors if he wants to start at the major league level. If not, he's another Raphy Perez, but I see this kid remaining a starter for the duration... great pickup for us.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby homerawayfromhome » Sat May 21, 2011 9:27 am

Soto could have more in there... 87-90 is pitchable. The time he's 22-23 he will probably be sitting 90-92 and touching 94. I'm not a Soto lover, glad to have him though he could be a middle rotation guy down the line. Personally I could see him becoming a 3 at best but he's still got plenty of time to fill out and grow (maybe another 10-15 lbs).
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sat May 21, 2011 7:49 pm

Great bounceback start for Brach tonight - 7IP, 1H, 0R, 2BB, 3K.

K-Tribe lead 1-0 mid 8th.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Sat May 21, 2011 10:04 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Soto could have more in there... 87-90 is pitchable. The time he's 22-23 he will probably be sitting 90-92 and touching 94. I'm not a Soto lover, glad to have him though he could be a middle rotation guy down the line. Personally I could see him becoming a 3 at best but he's still got plenty of time to fill out and grow (maybe another 10-15 lbs).


Not that I am expecting Soto to follow the Rondon path with velocity, but Rondon barely touched 90 MPH in Lake County in 2007....then in Kinston shot up with the arm strength. Soto has a similar lanky-type body at the same age, so as he matures physically and gets stronger there is a belief he will gain some more velo.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby ktriber » Mon May 23, 2011 12:36 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:
ktriber wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:
criznit2009 wrote:what a night for Soto 7IP 3H 1BB 8K!! Really starting to like this kid!
The Indians trade of Jhonny Peralta to the tigers for Giovanni Soto, a 19 year old, 6'3 155 pound string bean lefty with five pitches, didn't look like much at the time of the trade. If anything, it was called a salary dump and was so panned by the less than optimistic Friends of the Feather. Since then, Gio has added 25 pounds of muscle and has raised his FB velo from the mid 80's to the low 90's while maintaining good command of four pitches for his age.. You can't ever have enough pitching..and you certainly can't ever have enough lefty starters of Soto's projected caliber. At the start of this season, he was ranked the 27th best prospect in the Indians system by our group of 17 amateurs.. his star is on the rise.. While it would be "homer-esque" to call this trade in favor or the Indians, the trade is moving more towards a "draw", imho...


Soto has pitched great this year and is a real prospect in my opinion, but he is not pitching in the low 90's (unless the gun is wrong in Kinston). His fastball is normally in the 86-88 range.


Thanks for that. If you go to a game when they pitch can you update on what the gun has for Pomeranz and Adam Miller (or any legit Indians prospect you see)?


Sure, I'd be happy to do that. I haven't seen Miller pitch and Pomeranz I have only seen once. I saw the game where he left after an inning or so with injury. That night he hit 95 and was at 91-93 consistently.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby ktriber » Tue May 24, 2011 5:30 pm

TonyIPI wrote:Those stadium guns are bogus.

FYI, Soto has mostly been at 87-90 all year. Touched 92 MPH a few times....but consistently at 87-90.


How often do you think they recalibrate the stadium guns? Most of the guys that I see pitch seem to be right around where the scouting reports on them are. I have seen Soto three times and don't recall seeing him at 90, but I don't look at the gun every pitch. Regardless of that, I really like Soto's potential. He is particularly tough on left handers.

One of the hardest throwers for Kinston this year is Sturdivant, who is normally in the 93-94 range each night.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby ChadS17 » Tue May 24, 2011 7:00 pm

Tony, how hard is Adam Miller throwing? Right now where does he rank among our relief prospects?
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue May 24, 2011 10:34 pm

ChadS17 wrote:Tony, how hard is Adam Miller throwing? Right now where does he rank among our relief prospects?


Been up to 95 MPH. He's down the list of relief prospects until he proves he is effective and healthy at AAA.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby martyinnewyork » Thu May 26, 2011 6:10 pm

Very sorry to see that Jason Smit has retired. The kid seemed to be coming into his own this year and is still very young. I can understand, however, as he was stuck in low A again to start the season and still not a starter when finally moved up to Kinston. He was hot as a pistol to start this season. Always was impressed with him on the few occasions I had a chance to see him play, thought he had a chance to be a utility guy in the majors if he got a bit bigger. I wish him well and hope things work out for him.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby silverbackAXP » Fri May 27, 2011 11:41 pm

what is going on with TJ House?
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby jellis » Sat May 28, 2011 12:17 am

silverbackAXP wrote:what is going on with TJ House?


He free falled in my ranks we talk about guys like Federoff and Zmac going up House has dropped every year for me it feels
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Hermie13 » Sat May 28, 2011 1:38 pm

jellis wrote:
silverbackAXP wrote:what is going on with TJ House?


He free falled in my ranks we talk about guys like Federoff and Zmac going up House has dropped every year for me it feels


Agree. He has become an extreme flyball pitcher this year and the HRs are killing him. when the year started was expecting him to be knocking on Akron's door at this point. Defintely not the case though.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Sat May 28, 2011 3:11 pm

When doing my updated rankings this past week, I initially stuck House at #20 (I had him at #14 in the off-season) as just sort of a placeholder. By the time I was done moving everyone else around, he wasn't sniffing the top 20. I hate to drastically move guys around after just 2 months of real games, but I've dropped him from #14 to somewhere around #25 at this point. I think House, Kyle Blair and Joe Gardner have taken the biggest steps backwards for me.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat May 28, 2011 6:02 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:When doing my updated rankings this past week, I initially stuck House at #20 (I had him at #14 in the off-season) as just sort of a placeholder. By the time I was done moving everyone else around, he wasn't sniffing the top 20. I hate to drastically move guys around after just 2 months of real games, but I've dropped him from #14 to somewhere around #25 at this point. I think House, Kyle Blair and Joe Gardner have taken the biggest steps backwards for me.

I agree with you pretty much. Abreu was not high on my list but now he is organizational fodder IMO. Sorry to see it but I think he is Tony's Carlos Rivero. Great potential talent who will never get it together. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon May 30, 2011 5:32 pm

Drew Pomeranz was pulled from his start.. minor hamstring.. the Indians are being overly cautious with this young future MLB star..
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby stoike » Mon May 30, 2011 5:48 pm

Pork Chop Pough wrote:When doing my updated rankings this past week, I initially stuck House at #20 (I had him at #14 in the off-season) as just sort of a placeholder. By the time I was done moving everyone else around, he wasn't sniffing the top 20. I hate to drastically move guys around after just 2 months of real games, but I've dropped him from #14 to somewhere around #25 at this point. I think House, Kyle Blair and Joe Gardner have taken the biggest steps backwards for me.


WHY Gardner? Gonna have to explain that one really well, because he has been solid for Akron, especially as of late. Blair has had a big slump, but he had a huge effort last night. House I can surely see, but the other two are clearly premature, especially Gardner.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Mon May 30, 2011 7:02 pm

stoike wrote:
Pork Chop Pough wrote:When doing my updated rankings this past week, I initially stuck House at #20 (I had him at #14 in the off-season) as just sort of a placeholder. By the time I was done moving everyone else around, he wasn't sniffing the top 20. I hate to drastically move guys around after just 2 months of real games, but I've dropped him from #14 to somewhere around #25 at this point. I think House, Kyle Blair and Joe Gardner have taken the biggest steps backwards for me.


WHY Gardner? Gonna have to explain that one really well, because he has been solid for Akron, especially as of late. Blair has had a big slump, but he had a huge effort last night. House I can surely see, but the other two are clearly premature, especially Gardner.

Gardner is finally finding the strike zone recently and has pitched well in two of his last three starts (of course, his last start has no bearing on the rankings I did last week), but "solid"? He's been the antithesis of solid. His performance has been all over the place from one start to the next. Did you look at the season he was having through last week? Even after his last outing of 8 innings, he's averaging fewer than 5 innings per start, because he's throwing so few strikes that he's regularly reaching his pitch limit in the 4th inning.

There are some things to really like about Gardner -- his ground ball rate, his ability to avoid hard contact, his size. However, he's definitely a project. His control was fringe at best before and has regressed until very recently. Related to that are his mechanics, which seem to make repeating his delivery/release point a chore. Relying so much on the sinker, there was the question of whether his strikeout rate would hold up as he climbed the ladder, and so far it hasn't. There was also an issue with shoulder fatigue last month.

If he's made adjustments over the past couple weeks and can show he's capable of consistently pitching like the way he did in a couple of his recent starts, then I like him in the #8-#12 range in the system. However, there have been enough red flags -- that have come up this season or simply things that have reaffirmed the earlier red flags -- that I have him at #17 for the time being. Is he the next Jake Westbrook? Is he a BOR innings eater? Is he a relief pitcher? When it comes to unanswered questions vs. ceiling, I just feel better about the others I have ranked ahead of him. I don't know if you participated in the May gallery rankings or saw the breakdown, but he averaged out to #16, so my opinion of him is nothing unique. Two participants ranked him as high as #10/#11, while two others left him out of their top 20.

As for Blair, he's not a real high ceiling prospect. His upside was supposed to be that he's an advanced/polished pitcher, and there was plenty of talk that he could skip Lake County altogether. Just look at the season he's having. No one is simply writing these guys off already based on two months, but to say that it's premature to be disappointed in his performance to date is wrong. What would be premature is thinking that his last 6 innings mean more than his previous 40.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue May 31, 2011 10:40 am

One thing I have learned over the years is not to overreact to the good/bad performances the first two months of the season. Long way to go, and alot of times there is more going on explaining success/failure which is not known.

That having been said, the only real change to anything through two months is McAllister as a TOp 10-15 guy and Gallas jumping on the scene. Other than that, I don't move anyone but 1-3 spots up or down.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue May 31, 2011 11:06 am

McAllister?
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby toledobuck » Tue May 31, 2011 11:11 am

Why exactly is Gardner not worthy of being in the top 10 - 15 range? He is having some control problems but he seems to be progressing. Beyond all of his control issues this year he still has an ERA of 3.46. I don't think he has fallen much if any.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Edible14 » Tue May 31, 2011 11:44 am

toledobuck wrote:Why exactly is Gardner not worthy of being in the top 10 - 15 range? He is having some control problems but he seems to be progressing. Beyond all of his control issues this year he still has an ERA of 3.46. I don't think he has fallen much if any.


I don't think it's that Gardner is bad, as much as it's that there's a lot of really talented players exceeding expectations this year (like McAllister). I think Gardner would be a top 15 spec in most other orgs, but he's pretty far down the ladder here.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue May 31, 2011 12:22 pm

toledobuck wrote:Why exactly is Gardner not worthy of being in the top 10 - 15 range? He is having some control problems but he seems to be progressing. Beyond all of his control issues this year he still has an ERA of 3.46. I don't think he has fallen much if any.


I mistyped....meant to type McAllister (fixed in my post).

Though I do believe Gardner's stock has dropped a little.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Pork Chop Pough » Tue May 31, 2011 12:23 pm

I was certainly happy to participate in the May gallery rankings, but I agree with Tony that two months is too soon to get an accurate read on what's happening with a prospect. Everyone slumps from time to time, and even a minor injury that's played through can throw off stats for the season to this point. Most of all, adjustments often can't be made and established soon enough to correct things in that short of a time span. I can think of a few guys who seldom put up great minor league numbers because they were working on adjustments for multiple years, yet still became major league regulars.

So I wouldn't expect my own rankings in May to be taken as seriously as those during the off-season... they're more temporary and temperamental. Also, the nature of rankings means that for every guy like Vinny Pestano, Zach McAllister, Giovanny Soto, etc., who you want to reward by moving up, someone else has to be moved down.

One last thing is that you have to look way past a simple ERA to judge performance. Gardner's ERA doesn't look bad at all, but he's worked around jams and no doubt had more than his share of luck so far. It doesnt' change the fact that he's allowing way too many guys to reach base. Against more advanced hitters or in a less pitching friendly environment than the Eastern League, his ERA could and would be completely different. He's putting more guys on base than Corey Kluber, who has a 6.36 ERA at Columbus.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 31, 2011 7:49 pm

Nice bounceback start for Gio Soto tonight after his 11 hit, 6 run effort last time out.

So far tonight: - 5IP, 2H, 0R, 2BB, 10K
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Bearcatbob » Tue May 31, 2011 8:06 pm

I was going to post the same thing! Go Soto!
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 31, 2011 8:15 pm

Soto added a scoreless 6th too.

Problem is the K-Tribe are getting no-hit through 6.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 31, 2011 8:46 pm

The K-Tribe score a run in the 7th to win it 1-0.

Soto (6IP, 10K), Flores (1.2IP, 4K) and Guilmet (1.1IP, 2K) complete the 16K, 3-hit shutout effort!!
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby MadThinker88 » Tue May 31, 2011 9:23 pm

A pitching staff recording 16 strikeouts in a single game (covering only 9 IP or less) is a very good accomplishment.
Wonder if any news outlets will pick it up.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby jellis » Tue May 31, 2011 11:51 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:A pitching staff recording 16 strikeouts in a single game (covering only 9 IP or less) is a very good accomplishment.
Wonder if any news outlets will pick it up.


Its A ball it only gets mentioned when no hitters occur
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby POJO_Risin » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:43 am

Was at the K-Tribe game tonight, and was sitting with the scouts. There were about 10 guns on Pomeranz, and he was consistently hitting 91 and 92. I saw 94 once.

I saw two offspeed pitches (79 and 81), and they were both singles...one up the middle, and another infield single.

His velocity was definitely off from the other two starts I've seen, but his delivery was much more relaxed. He did labor a bit...and get behind...especially in the third inning.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:03 pm

Nice report....good to see Pomz back out there.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:44 pm

Another fine start by Clayton Cook. 7 IP, 1ER/R, 3 Hits and 9 Ks. Pomeranz is the man but Cook and Soto look like quality prospects. And Kinston hit 4 HRs, practically a season's worth for this bunch.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby ktriber » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:35 pm

Ktribe with a very impressive comeback last night. Some aggressive baserunning in the late innings.

Popham - Pitched well but overshadowed by Ross from Myrtle Beach. Popham was 89-91 most of the night on the stadium gun.

Sturdivant - Gave up a couple of runs but not a lot of hard hit balls. Was 93-96 in his couple of innings consistently.

Guilmet - His usual consistent inning of work. Was in the 86-88 range.

Abreu - Appears to have changed his batting stance a bit. Can't really put my finger on it. I think maybe he is bending his knees more and getting lower.

The Ross kid for Myrtle Beach looked good. He was consistently at 90-91 with excellent location. He was getting a lot of late swings even at 90, so it looks like the ball was getting on the hitters sooner than they were expecting. Don't know anything about him, but looks like a prospect for the Rangers.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby criznit2009 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:52 pm

What game tonight for Kinston - still rolling tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 22nd. Some pretty bad lines being put up by a few guys.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:16 pm

A walkoff single for Casey Frawley in the bot 23rd!
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby ktriber » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:13 am

Wow. I was one of the fews who braved it out until the end. We found several different ways to not score but finally was able to pull it out. Had the bases loaded with nobody out an inning or two before and didn't score. Had several opportunities to bunt guys over a base in extra innings and failed most of the time. Its amazing how many professional ball players are bad bunters. Bo Greenwell left the game early afer being hit in the hand with a pitch.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby bmonnig » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:48 am

Just noticed Kinston has a doubleheader today, tough break after the marathon game yesterday. Gotta hope House and Clayton Cook can go deep today.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby dazindiansfanuk » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:44 pm

bmonnig wrote:Just noticed Kinston has a doubleheader today, tough break after the marathon game yesterday. Gotta hope House and Clayton Cook can go deep today.


Ask and you shall receive..... TJ House with a 7 inning, 1-hit complete game shutout.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Chiefroy » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:16 am

Roberto Perez - 4 games, 46 innings behind the plate in 3 days :clapping:
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby TonyIBI » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:42 am

Chiefroy wrote:Roberto Perez - 4 games, 46 innings behind the plate in 3 days :clapping:


Wow, good catch. I'm stealing that.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Tondo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:07 pm

Chiefroy wrote:Roberto Perez - 4 games, 46 innings behind the plate in 3 days :clapping:


That's heroic but it should not have happened...Giving him that much workload is a bit reckless imho. I fear the org doesn't see him as a priority prospect but he should be...he's 22yo, reportedly good defensively and steadily improving with the bat. ...if the org isn't high on him or thinks he won't hit in higher levels, then they should try and include him in a trade as his value might be at an all time high...I root for him and think he's the kind of spec that can overachieve his talent/upside level and be a pleasant surprise down the road...

system is pretty stacked at C now, with legit specs in Chen and the loads of youngsters in Lavisky, Monsalve and now Lowery and maybe Haase...if Perez and Chen keep improving they should be moved up and we should cut 1 of the vets in Columbus (probably Phillips)
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Upper Box Woodchuck » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:20 pm

For those who haven''t seen it in the Free Press or on their website, Greenwell and Soto are on the DL to make room for Gallas and Reichenbach (transactions not noted on K-Tribe website):

http://www.kinston.com/sports/long-7443 ... llows.html
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:37 pm

Upper Box Woodchuck wrote:For those who haven''t seen it in the Free Press or on their website, Greenwell and Soto are on the DL to make room for Gallas and Reichenbach (transactions not noted on K-Tribe website):

http://www.kinston.com/sports/long-7443 ... llows.html


Are they worried about Soto or is this not a big deal?
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Upper Box Woodchuck » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:12 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Upper Box Woodchuck wrote:For those who haven''t seen it in the Free Press or on their website, Greenwell and Soto are on the DL to make room for Gallas and Reichenbach (transactions not noted on K-Tribe website):

http://www.kinston.com/sports/long-7443 ... llows.html


Are they worried about Soto or is this not a big deal?


It didn't sound like a big deal the way the article mentioned it, but I'm not sure.
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:03 pm

Upper Box Woodchuck wrote:
Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Upper Box Woodchuck wrote:For those who haven''t seen it in the Free Press or on their website, Greenwell and Soto are on the DL to make room for Gallas and Reichenbach (transactions not noted on K-Tribe website):

http://www.kinston.com/sports/long-7443 ... llows.html


Are they worried about Soto or is this not a big deal?


It didn't sound like a big deal the way the article mentioned it, but I'm not sure.

Seems like a "need warm body" move after all the RPs used in 23 inning marathon. House and Clayton really helped with their performances yesterday so I would not be too surprised if Soto is reactivated in time for his regular start. I would not be too surprised if Pomeranz has had his last start in Kinston and is moved to Akron shortly. :pleasantry:
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby Lloyd Christmas » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:04 pm

Ouch Knapp just had surgery out for year
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby indianinkslinger » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:11 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Ouch Knapp just had surgery out for year

Too bad! Probably our best Pitching prospect other than the White/Pomeranz duo. :cry:
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Re: 2011 Kinston Indians Thread

Postby entertheshoe » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:11 pm

Lloyd Christmas wrote:Ouch Knapp just had surgery out for year


UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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