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Pomeranz

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Pomeranz

Postby tribefan611 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:22 pm

I'm not an expert on the draft by any means, but I just have a question. The Indians just drafted Drew Pomeranz, who is looking very impressive in spring training, but is still a year away from making the major leagues. The White Sox drafted Chris Sale later in the draft and was in the majors a month later and is now in competition to be their closer. What am I missing?
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby TonyIBI » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:49 pm

tribefan611 wrote:I'm not an expert on the draft by any means, but I just have a question. The Indians just drafted Drew Pomeranz, who is looking very impressive in spring training, but is still a year away from making the major leagues. The White Sox drafted Chris Sale later in the draft and was in the majors a month later and is now in competition to be their closer. What am I missing?


The difference is one is a starter, one is a reliever. Pomeranz could pitch in the big leagues as a reliever right now too. Alex White too. But they are being developed as starters, which means more focus on developing command and also a third pitch, something that is not as important in the pen.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby TheWord » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:52 pm

For the life of me I can't understand why they don't try and start over with Sale as a starter.

Send him to AA, let him go a bit...then add him to the rotation later in the year if he continues to progress.

A first round pick spent on a reliever?

Ehh....
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby indianinkslinger » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:57 pm

TheWord wrote:For the life of me I can't understand why they don't try and start over with Sale as a starter.

Send him to AA, let him go a bit...then add him to the rotation later in the year if he continues to progress.

A first round pick spent on a reliever?

Ehh....

Hey word, I think Sale has great stuff but the strain his throwing motion puts on his arm is not ideal. He may not have a long career as a starter but I am not sure that he will not spend considerable time on the DL. Just my take on it. :pleasantry:
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby GeronimoSon » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:00 pm

Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby indianinkslinger » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:30 am

GeronimoSon wrote:Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....

Neither does Herrmann, GS. :spiteful:
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:46 am

indianinkslinger wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....

Neither does Herrmann, GS. :spiteful:
Huh...Neither does Soup'Herrmann what?
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby Chiefroy » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:25 am

have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby Hermie13 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:28 pm

TheWord wrote:For the life of me I can't understand why they don't try and start over with Sale as a starter.

Send him to AA, let him go a bit...then add him to the rotation later in the year if he continues to progress.

A first round pick spent on a reliever?

Ehh....


White Sox feel they can win the division this year....and really, they do have a great shot at it. Sale in the pen gives them their best shot.

I do agree, I'd use him as a starter down in the minors. I think he could develop as a starter and be a great one....though I also agree with ink, that motion is worrisome and the odds are likely stacked against him having a long career as a starter.


I also agree with you on spending a 1st round pick on a reliever.....could be worse though, could have spent the 2nd overall pick on a reliever (Paul Shuey anyone?). He was transitioned to relief during his first full pro season....ugh
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby homerawayfromhome » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:21 pm

Paul Shuey had some wicked stuff... Almost too much so.

Chris Sale is a power lefty and dominate at that... Which would you choose a bullpen arm guarantee or possibly a starter / everyday player IF he develops. The White Sox are trying to win Now.

Drew Pomeranz has looked sharp so far, considering he is just getting into the system it is encouraging for the future.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:12 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....


You know what? I started this thread to compare Pomeranz to Sale. I've heard enough of you telling us what to talk about.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby GeronimoSon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:25 pm

tribefan611 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....


You know what? I started this thread to compare Pomeranz to Sale. I've heard enough of you telling us what to talk about.
..you also asked what you were missing.. well.. it's easy to see, you're missing your public education reading comprehension skills.. they've failed you.. So.. what else are you missing?.. Signing date information.. skill sets for each of these two different pitchers. You're lame attempt to show how a team not named the Indians is smarter for taking a lefty reliever (yes, Sale comes to the ML's as a lefty closer & has some success) over a lefty starter?.. is this what you want to compare.. easy choice?.. no?.. :s_dunno
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:32 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:
tribefan611 wrote:
GeronimoSon wrote:Pomeranz, anyone?.. The accomplishments and medical projections of chris sale have nothing to do with Drew Pomeranz..

Pomeranz has come to camp and has opened some eyes.. It's exactly what Pom should be doing.. You can never have enough big strong lefties with a late breaking hammer curve and a mid 90's fastball.. but he could do without a less than "ready to go" change up.. This is the kind of pitcher that could become as special as Big CC.. with the right path for his career.. and that includes minor league baseball.. Rushing him to the major leagues??.. is that necessary?

Nice to see Soup'Herrmann follow up Pom with two good innings of his own....


You know what? I started this thread to compare Pomeranz to Sale. I've heard enough of you telling us what to talk about.
..you also asked what you were missing.. well.. it's easy to see, you're missing your public education reading comprehension skills.. they've failed you.. So.. what else are you missing?.. Signing date information.. skill sets for each of these two different pitchers. You're lame attempt to show how a team not named the Indians is smarter for taking a lefty reliever (yes, Sale comes to the ML's as a lefty closer & has some success) over a lefty starter?.. is this what you want to compare.. easy choice?.. no?.. :s_dunno


FYI, you are going off subject. You are an absolute jerk. I said that I have little knowledge of the draft and I just wanted to know why the Indians didn't draft Sale. I admit I didn't know.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby tribefan611 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:36 pm

By the way, y'all answered my question. Thank you. I'm off to work on my "public education reading comprehension skills." LOL :s_rofl
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby OhioBaseball » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Sale would suck as a starter.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:28 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Paul Shuey had some wicked stuff... Almost too much so.

Chris Sale is a power lefty and dominate at that... Which would you choose a bullpen arm guarantee or possibly a starter / everyday player IF he develops. The White Sox are trying to win Now.

Drew Pomeranz has looked sharp so far, considering he is just getting into the system it is encouraging for the future.


Possible starter everyday of the week and twice on Tuesdays.

I agree though White Sox were in a bit of a different situation...plus getting Sale outside the top 10 is better than top 5 like where the Tribe would have drafted him.

Shuey did have great stuff and was highly touted coming out of UNC....but 2nd overall was too high for a guy you pegged as a reliever that early. It's like drafting an offensive guard in the top 10 in football. You just don't do that....now if an OT fails and you have to move him to guard so be it, but you don't draft a guy that high and move him to guard in the first full pro season.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:36 pm

Good analogy Hermie13. Point taken.
My point was a sure thing with your first pk or a high probability. Most would place it safe but that's the difference IMO in this org and some others.
The Sox however wanted/ want to win and contend and that kind of arm serves their purpose.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby Hermie13 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:44 pm

homerawayfromhome wrote:Good analogy Hermie13. Point taken.
My point was a sure thing with your first pk or a high probability. Most would place it safe but that's the difference IMO in this org and some others.
The Sox however wanted/ want to win and contend and that kind of arm serves their purpose.


I agree. I guess my point was more that if the White Sox were picking 5th instead of Cleveland last year....I bet they don't take Sale there and take a guy like Pomeranz (or someone else). Perhaps I'm wrong though.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby homerawayfromhome » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:30 pm

Hard call.

Teams, farm systems, approach, scouting, need, etc. dictate that really as much as talent and upside. Pomeranz is a high floor/ high ceiling (possible #2 starter IMO) while Sale has had success Id say Pomeranz will win more gms over their big league careers, IMO.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby OhioBaseball » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:41 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:Sale would suck as a starter.


I got to be honest, I don't ever want to hear any of this "Indians should have taken Sale instead of Pomeranz" talk. Chris Sale is a lefty specialist (albeit a good one). I said it before the draft and I'll reiterate it today; this guy is NEVER going to be an effective starting pitcher in the major leagues for an extended period of time (beyond like a month).
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby jellis » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:49 pm

OhioBaseball wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Sale would suck as a starter.


I got to be honest, I don't ever want to hear any of this "Indians should have taken Sale instead of Pomeranz" talk. Chris Sale is a lefty specialist (albeit a good one). I said it before the draft and I'll reiterate it today; this guy is NEVER going to be an effective starting pitcher in the major leagues for an extended period of time (beyond like a month).


Sale is a solid BP guy, no reason to be over the top on him. Pomeranz to me though could be a FOR starter. I think everyone would take even a MOR starter over a CL type
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby GeronimoSon » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:01 am

....if the White Sox were picking 5th instead of Cleveland last year....I bet they don't take Sale there and take a guy like Pomeranz (or someone else). Perhaps I'm wrong though.....

I guess there's a first for everything...

Chris Sale is a skinny lefty that can bring the heat for an inning, maybe two.. His delivery mechanics are actually pretty bad, but, at this point, it looks like the cwsox are going to "ride the horse until it kicks you".. Sale may be effective now (Pronk sure didn't seem to get any decent swings off him), however, long term, he's a ticking time bomb that may explode..

Drew Pomeranz is the goods.. his performance in his first big league camps opened eyes. He could be knocking on the door within a matter of months.. and no later than this time next year...

The comments regarding draft position are well stated... NO WAY do the cwsox draft sale over a guy like pomeranz in the Indians slot..just wouldn't happen. Front of the Rotation starting pitching is such a rare and valuable commodity, that every team would be crazy not to build in that area...
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby homerawayfromhome » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:14 pm

Agreed if the white sox were picking 5 they would have picked Pomeranz too, but they were trying to win now, that's the difference. If I were picking I probably would have went Pomeranz too but would have gave Sale and Michael Choice consideration. Pomeranz was the safest pk IMO at that point.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby Hermie13 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:38 pm

GeronimoSon wrote:Drew Pomeranz is the goods.. his performance in his first big league camps opened eyes. He could be knocking on the door within a matter of months.. and no later than this time next year...


I agree Pomeranz has the goods....but knocking on the door within a matter of months and no later than this time next year is not likely at all.....unless you're talking about knocking on the AA door and maybe being in AAA no later than this time next year. But the bigs? Tribe won't rush him that quickly.
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Re: Pomeranz

Postby TitoFrancona » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:10 am

OhioBaseball wrote:
OhioBaseball wrote:Sale would suck as a starter.


I got to be honest, I don't ever want to hear any of this "Indians should have taken Sale instead of Pomeranz" talk. Chris Sale is a lefty specialist (albeit a good one). I said it before the draft and I'll reiterate it today; this guy is NEVER going to be an effective starting pitcher in the major leagues for an extended period of time (beyond like a month).


I definitely agree. I'm certainly no expert on the draft but before the draft I was seriously hoping it was Pomeranz and not Sale. Too many analysts and scouts viewed Sale as a future reliever aalbeit a good one. I'm not of the opinion that you take a reliever with a top 15 pick - even if he's closer material. I think Sale does have that potential, but I'll take Pomeranz upside as a solid 2 or 3 starter.
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